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Thread: More Birds Of Prey Poisoned

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfield View Post
    So you "respect" a living thing, then blast it to kingdom come!
    I wonder what you do to animals you do not respect
    I either shoot vermin - which are definitely causing a problem, not just shooting them because I can.

    Or I eat what I shoot, sometimes this includes the vermin.

    I enjoy the whole process of hunting, something which more primitive societies would still be in tune to. But many of us have lost the 'instinct' to hunt. So be it. If you don't 'get' the idea of respecting an animal and killing it at the same time, then you had better become a vegetarian.

    BTW, there are no animals that I do not respect. More than can be said of many 'antis', they'll wail about cruelty and respect for the furry woodland folk and then go to the supermarket and buy some 'cheap' pork or an intensively reared chicken.

    Are these people hypocritical or just dumb and ignorant? Or all three?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
    I either shoot vermin - which are definitely causing a problem, not just shooting them because I can.

    Or I eat what I shoot, sometimes this includes the vermin.

    I enjoy the whole process of hunting, something which more primitive societies would still be in tune to. But many of us have lost the 'instinct' to hunt. So be it. If you don't 'get' the idea of respecting an animal and killing it at the same time, then you had better become a vegetarian.

    BTW, there are no animals that I do not respect. More than can be said of many 'antis', they'll wail about cruelty and respect for the furry woodland folk and then go to the supermarket and buy some 'cheap' pork or an intensively reared chicken.

    Are these people hypocritical or just dumb and ignorant? Or all three?

    By your own admission you have proved that you kill wildlife for pleasure, by pointing out the fact that your food requirements are available at the supermarket, you have negated any other reason for your wanton blood lust.

    I agree with you in respect to intensive rearing of animals for our food, but, unfortunately this has become a necessity born out by the huge amount of mouths it has to feed worldwide. Not so the killing for pleasure or hatred of our scarce and in some cases extremely rare wildlife, no necessity there, just the neanderthal lust to kill something that can't fight back. Just because you may be able to eat some of the wildlife you kill doesn't make it right, especially when you don't need to, you can buy all your food requirements pre-packaged in the supermarket.

    As for being hypocritical, dumb or ignorant, some maybe, but then, not all of us. Many of us can see the carnage and devastation that's being heaped on our wildlife and the environment by the so-called 'sporting men' who think nothing of producing Pheasants, Partridge and Grouse in such unnaturally large numbers that the normal eco system cannot support them without interference from man. They then sytematically destroy everthing with an hooked beak or a claw in the bigoted belief that they have the right because they are a threat to their artificially supported game birds.

    This may well have been the common practice in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, but this is the 21st century and the Victorians died out over a hundred years ago. A very large majority of us want to see the birds of prey prosper unmolested and unpersecuted, we deplore your archaic blood sport, especially as you think the only way you can sustain it is by killing off all the magnificent birds of prey. Although we don't like it, many of us would probably tolerate it if you weren't so hell bent on exterminating the predators, in particular the rare and so-called protected Raptors.

    nirofo.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by nirofo View Post
    By your own admission you have proved that you kill wildlife for pleasure, by pointing out the fact that your food requirements are available at the supermarket, you have negated any other reason for your wanton blood lust.....
    "My wanton bloodlust...."




    I agree with you in respect to intensive rearing of animals for our food, but, unfortunately this has become a necessity born out by the huge amount of mouths it has to feed worldwide.....
    No argument from me there.

    .....Not so the killing for pleasure or hatred of our scarce and in some cases extremely rare wildlife, no necessity there, just the neanderthal lust to kill something that can't fight back. Just because you may be able to eat some of the wildlife you kill doesn't make it right, especially when you don't need to, you can buy all your food requirements pre-packaged in the supermarket.......
    And I suppose the slaughtermen apologise to every individual animal before smashing its' skull in with a captive bolt or electrocuting it? Maybe they weep into ther pillows every night too.

    As for food being on a supermarket shelf negating the 'need' to shoot for food, I believe I can righly assume that you are of the belief that meat is a mere commodity to be processed in factory conditions for the 'consumer'.

    At least the animals I kill have lead a free and natural life with a swift end in their own surroundings. Not penned up in an alien environment after being shipped God knows how many miles in cramped conditions after a life of being 'processed' for maximum meat return.

    I'd say your stance comes from one of NIMBYism - you're happy for people to process and kill animals in a dubious fashion...as long as it is done well away from you and enables you to buy your meat 'guilt free', neatly packaged and without anything that might trouble your sanctimonious conciensce. Far easier for you to target 'them' when your hands are blood free, isn't it?

    You know jack all about this subject, that's for sure.



    As for being hypocritical, dumb or ignorant, some maybe, but then, not all of us.
    Please see above.

    Many of us can see the carnage and devastation that's being heaped on our wildlife and the environment by the so-called 'sporting men' who think nothing of producing Pheasants, Partridge and Grouse in such unnaturally large numbers that the normal eco system cannot support them without interference from man. They then sytematically destroy everthing with an hooked beak or a claw in the bigoted belief that they have the right because they are a threat to their artificially supported game birds.
    Sweeping generalisations are always a pretty dumb card to play. It's like saying all Scousers wear shellsuits.

    In any group there will always be those who are on the fringes or outside of the law. This applies to Estates as much as it does Antis'. I know many Estates work tirelessly to improve the habitat of their land to benefit biodiversity on a scale that hasn't been seen before. they put up their own money and labour to help something that is of no direct commercial value whatsoever.

    .......This may well have been the common practice in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, but this is the 21st century and the Victorians died out over a hundred years ago. A very large majority of us want to see the birds of prey prosper unmolested and unpersecuted, we deplore your archaic blood sport, especially as you think the only way you can sustain it is by killing off all the magnificent birds of prey....
    There you go again with sweeping and unsustainable statements.

    .....Although we don't like it, many of us would probably tolerate it if you weren't so hell bent on exterminating the predators, in particular the rare and so-called protected Raptors.

    nirofo.
    Who? Me personally? Or anyone who carries a gun or runs an estate? I've never killed a bird of prey in my life. In fact I can honestly say I've never met anyone who has. As for predators - foxes I've shot, yes. But only when I've had a definite problem with one. Stoats and weasels, never.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nirofo View Post
    I agree with you in respect to intensive rearing of animals for our food, but, unfortunately this has become a necessity born out by the huge amount of mouths it has to feed worldwide.
    Actually it has come about from the public's demand for cheap meat...
    ˇǝʇǝןdɯoɔ sı ǝɟıן ʎɯ - buızɐɹb sǝsɹoɥ ʎɯ sı ooן ʎɯ ɯoɹɟ ʍǝıʌ ǝɥʇ

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nirofo View Post
    By your own admission you have proved that you kill wildlife for pleasure, by pointing out the fact that your food requirements are available at the supermarket, you have negated any other reason for your wanton blood lust.

    I agree with you in respect to intensive rearing of animals for our food, but, unfortunately this has become a necessity born out by the huge amount of mouths it has to feed worldwide. Not so the killing for pleasure or hatred of our scarce and in some cases extremely rare wildlife, no necessity there, just the neanderthal lust to kill something that can't fight back. Just because you may be able to eat some of the wildlife you kill doesn't make it right, especially when you don't need to, you can buy all your food requirements pre-packaged in the supermarket.

    As for being hypocritical, dumb or ignorant, some maybe, but then, not all of us. Many of us can see the carnage and devastation that's being heaped on our wildlife and the environment by the so-called 'sporting men' who think nothing of producing Pheasants, Partridge and Grouse in such unnaturally large numbers that the normal eco system cannot support them without interference from man. They then sytematically destroy everthing with an hooked beak or a claw in the bigoted belief that they have the right because they are a threat to their artificially supported game birds.

    This may well have been the common practice in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, but this is the 21st century and the Victorians died out over a hundred years ago. A very large majority of us want to see the birds of prey prosper unmolested and unpersecuted, we deplore your archaic blood sport, especially as you think the only way you can sustain it is by killing off all the magnificent birds of prey. Although we don't like it, many of us would probably tolerate it if you weren't so hell bent on exterminating the predators, in particular the rare and so-called protected Raptors.

    nirofo.
    Hmmmm.

    You seem to be accusing everyone who shoots, fishes, owns an estate or even works on one of killing raptors. As Walter says, using a scattergun approach just makes a mockery of your own argument.

    I can't be arsed to get dragged back into the whole 'Estate good/bad' argument again, I've made my feelings clear before on this subject.

    But...Nirofo, seeing as you appear to view all those who shoot and fish for pleasure as nothing more than satisfying their 'blood lust' (made me laugh too), could you place the following chappie in the good or bad camp for me? You see, he's a bit of a role model for me and I'd like to know what the 'Anti' stance is regarding him:

    Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by northener View Post
    Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall.
    Yep, Psychopath

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by northener View Post
    could you place the following chappie in the good or bad camp for me? You see, he's a bit of a role model for me and I'd like to know what the 'Anti' stance is regarding him: Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall.
    Cannibal as well

    His fame or infamy increased a hundred fold in 1998 when he cooked a human placenta on TV Dinners . He made it into a pâté that was much enjoyed by the baby's family and friends. But it caused huge outrage in Daily Mail -reading circles who seemed to equate it with cannibalism.. Article
    Michael Stone is innocent.
    Convicted without any forensic evidence and failed to be picked at any ID parade
    So who did kill Lin & Megan Russell
    http://www.michaelstone.co.uk/

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by northener View Post
    Hmmmm.

    You seem to be accusing everyone who shoots, fishes, owns an estate or even works on one of killing raptors. As Walter says, using a scattergun approach just makes a mockery of your own argument.

    I can't be arsed to get dragged back into the whole 'Estate good/bad' argument again, I've made my feelings clear before on this subject.

    But...Nirofo, seeing as you appear to view all those who shoot and fish for pleasure as nothing more than satisfying their 'blood lust' (made me laugh too), could you place the following chappie in the good or bad camp for me? You see, he's a bit of a role model for me and I'd like to know what the 'Anti' stance is regarding him:

    Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall.

    You miss the point, I have no objection to the general shooter who has a keen interest in the well being and protection of wildlife, in particular the Raptors who suffer extensively at the hands of the organised shoots and estates. I was brought up in a hunting, shooting and fishing fraternity and know first hand the devastation that a well organised keeper can wreake on anything with a hooked beak or claw. My uncle was head keeper on one of the best grouse moors in the country for years, I've seen the logs he kept of the long list of Raptors killed just so that the so-called peers of the realm etc, can shoot more Red Grouse. I've seen them use just about any method they can get away with to ensure the protected Raptors are removed from 'their' land, and they seem to get away with most things one way or another.

    I never said all the estates are 'bad' as you put it, I know a few are doing great work in helping the Raptors and other wildlife prosper and do well. Unfortunately they appear to be in a very small minority judging by the huge amount of persecution the Raptors are facing elsewhere.

    Satisfying their blood lust, as I said previously, not all of them, but when you see a line of guns blasting away at a covey of partridge, or a flight of Red Grouse, or a group of Pheasants that have been purposely beaten out of cover and forced to fly terrified against their natural instincts over the waiting guns, and to be killed in huge numbers, well, YES. This is what the majority of the estates and sydicates do.

    As for Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall, never heard of him until you mentioned him, however in brief, Wikipedia has him as a TV chef who moved from London to the country, bought a share in Tescos and started a campaign to stop battery produced chickens being sold in Tescos. Didn't stop him killing chickens for food and using them on his TV shows however!

    In summary:
    I don't object to the general shooter who respects wildlife and protects Raptors, I do object vehemently to the estates and keepers who persecute our legally protected birds of prey.

    I don't personally like battery farming but appreciate it's a necessity in this day and age, too many people, too little food to go round.

    I detest organised driven shoots where there are Red Grouse on the moors and hand reared partridge and Pheasants bred for release to the guns, they are the biggest culprits of Raptor persecution and engender the 'blood lust' among the shooters.

    Finally, I have no thoughts whatever on Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall, I've never watched his TV program and have no interest in doing so. I wish him good luck on his endeavour to bring an end to battery chicken farming however.

    nirofo.

  9. #29
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    Default Hold, had,hing on.

    Please don't let this thread turn into another me versus you.
    I am aware of estates that promote good management and are even making money out of those who hunt with a camera, I am also aware of those that break the law.
    There are always two sides to any aguement and whilst I can admire the skill of marksman or a fly fisher, neither appeals to me but that is my personal feeling.
    What really annoys me is the attitude of some who seem to think they are above the law.
    What really worries me is the attitude that I have the right to do what I like irrespective of the law and the lack of wild life protection officers to enforce it.

  10. #30
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    I am feeling sorry for the birds. I personally feel that it is high time that the police interfere and put an end to the barbaric practice of killing innocent birds. All game keepers who use Carbofuran should be put behind bars at least for 5 years. That is the only remedy for this problem.

  11. #31
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    Its interesting reading the back and forth.

    I think there is little support from the constabulary, we are lucky and have a keen wildlife officer however we have little comercial shooting and no problem with this sort of crime. I think it is a different story across the water on the big land south.

    Taylor is right there should be a five year term for offenders that release deadly poisons in to the enviroment with the intent of damaging the flora of fauna of the biosphere. It is a situation that is ramping out of hand and getting worse rather than better.

    I posted this articall on my blog the other day. It makes sobering reading!

    http://www.robedwards.com/2011/01/re...ng-fields.html
    dafsorkneybirding.blogspot.com

  12. #32
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    Anyone out there interested in raptors should read the following site: http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/.

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