Enola Gay

[j4bberw0ck]

I wish I could deal with the fact that the population consists of male and female. I wish I could get people to believe in the strengths they all have to contribute. But the old order won't let me. The old order ignores the potential of women. The old order is ordered to protect the order which it has ordained.

Are you referring to the churches and female bishops, or is your point wider than that? Sorry, I'm a little slow today and very unclear as to what you mean by "the old order".

[sjwahwah]

We cannot predict the future, but we do have a penchant to talk about it. Some people place a giant pall over the present with their attitudes of doom and gloom in their anticipation of what is to become. I prefer to find avenues of hope and thus create a more positive mood for the present.

how will we laugh tomorrow when we cannot smile today???

Also, sorry if I have appeared not to be smiling. No one seems to take me seriously when I go with the lighter side of myself.

this is hardly what I meant by my post. I mean how do people around the world who are under much suffering and living in fear NOT anticipate gloom and doom and how do they just be happy and positive. it might be simply said in Canada, "ya ay"?.. you don't have all that much to worry about until the North American Union of course and then you'll get your new world order.

some weigh up what's happened though history AND what is going on presently and don't see too many avenues of hope for ourselves or our children here or elsewhere on this planet in future unless we do a little more than positive thinking today. I'm not saying myself nor anyone has "hope" of course we do... or we would not be motivated to do anything.... but, everybody has their choice... ignore what's going on or just think well it doesn't effect me directly so I'll just be happy and positive about everything and it will turn out all right for me. that's called denial and lack of empathy. but, I think a little more than that needs to be done and I don't think we can afford to wait around for our politicians to do it.

my point was if we can not raise awareness and fix what's right today... what will the future be like???

but, tying in with the thread is what is going on NOW... nuclear weapons being used in the middle east right now in Lebanon and Iraq.. on civilians, soldiers, women, children.. even babies!!! In Iraq the depleted uranium radiation equals that of 250,000 Nagasaki bombs! After the last Gulf war they report 67% of children that are born in the former battle regions are born with some type of birth defect from all the depleted uranium WE used over there and continue to do so now... what isn't gloomy about that and what will these childrens lives be like in future? btw... Canada is the LARGEST exporter of uranium.

[canuck]

Are you referring to the churches and female bishops, or is your point wider than that? Sorry, I'm a little slow today and very unclear as to what you mean by "the old order".

No, I was refering to the wider world. (I know the church system, I live in the church system.) I meant the way the world organizes itself for the good of all the world. That order worked once (I know that is debatable, but lets pretend that it functioned). Yet the structures and the forms once put in place for people and nations to relate to one another just don't work now. In our passion to protect that which once was, hoping if we do the old stuff better that we will be okay, we loose the good things emerging. All of our energies and resources go to supporting an old way that just doesn't work anymore.

I know that the word oil is seen as the reason for Bush's foreign policy. Rather, I think that the administration is trying desparately to protect the old order. Oil just makes a nice public face to work behind.

We really do get off topic don't we? I suppose that is the beauty of such a free flowing form of communication. The thread started with a discussion around Enola Gay. The world has changed in 61 years because of that project. And the world will continue to change until we can live in peace.

[canuck]

I mean how do people around the world who are under much suffering and living in fear NOT anticipate gloom and doom and how do they just be happy and positive.

btw... Canada is the LARGEST exporter of uranium.

It was the doom and gloomsters of the org that I was meaning back there.

Yes, I know that Canada is the largest exporter of uranium.

[Gleber2]

It was the doom and gloomsters of the org that I was meaning back there.

Yes I freely admit to being a gloom and doomster. The past and present does not create much hope for anyone's future and instead of getting better with increased awareness it seems to be getting worse. I am a realist who, although he retains a degree of hope, does not give our children much of a chance on a planet that has gone past the point of no return. Look after your own backyard, keep your own kharma clean and maybe you'll have a chance at the next stage.

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

Yes I freely admit to being a gloom and doomster. The past and present does not create much hope for anyone's future and instead of getting better with increased awareness it seems to be getting worse. I am a realist who, although he retains a degree of hope, does not give our children much of a chance on a planet that has gone past the point of no return. Look after your own backyard, keep your own kharma clean and maybe you'll have a chance at the next stage.

Agree wi' ye Gleber 2.Bring yir kids up in the best way ye can and the future looks bright.There is a lot of good things left in this world and the kids will bring it through that we all have.

Its very deep this thread has turned from its original from pultneytooner,but it has still opened my eyes from diffirent peoples perspectives.

[pultneytooner]

Agree wi' ye Gleber 2.Bring yir kids up in the best way ye can and the future looks bright.There is a lot of good things left in this world and the kids will bring it through that we all have.

Its very deep this thread has turned from its original from pultneytooner,but it has still opened my eyes from diffirent peoples perspectives.

The thread has changed and evolved.
It's just like a normal conversation, thread drift is cool by me.

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

The thread has changed and evolved.
It's just like a normal conversation, thread drift is cool by me.

Pultneytooner,yer true in what ye say.The best thing of this forum of ours is at the start ye might be talkin aboot one thing but the end aboot another.

I feel sometimes that folk get banned for nothing and others get away wi' onythin'

[crayola]

No, I said (and I meant) "deal with it". Childish and ultimately self-defeating sexism is all you offer.

Have you ever been on a course on managing your emotions? They're really good. They cover the psychology of distress, and they help you to understand when and why you use expressions like "deal with it", and what's going on inside your brain when you classify others as childish. They teach you what to eat to stay healthy and be calm and cool all the time. I can thoroughly recommend one in Glasgow if you're interested.

You should (if only out of courtesy) be a little careful about lumping all people - even if they're only males - together. I know nothing about your "glamour shoots" or the film crew. You were presumably doing some sort of job you were paid for and so had the same options as any other employee; act against the things which offended you, ignore it, or leave. And believe me, I know what I'm talking about in this regard.

You've gotten me confused. Are you claiming to know about employment law or the glamour industry?

Yes. I think there are two points here. First, your use of the word "ruled" is interesting; at best, thoughtless, at worst, concerning. Second, my point was that before xx can achieve very much, certain things need to be done. It seems unlikely, on balance, that our local blue witch will single-handedly persuade the radical mullahs that they should allow women to express themselves as they wish. Enter the much-maligned XYs to prepare the ground. Witchery or no, several million years of evolution can't be turned on its head overnight.

I think you might be misunderstanding what I'm saying. Preparation of ground by XY's isn't what's needed here. The pressure from change needs to come from the XX's inside the oppressed communities.

I think this thread has evolved too far now. We went from bombs to psychology via sexism and other bad stuff.

[canuck]

Agree wi' ye Gleber 2.Bring yir kids up in the best way ye can and the future looks bright.There is a lot of good things left in this world and the kids will bring it through that we all have.

Its very deep this thread has turned from its original from pultneytooner,but it has still opened my eyes from diffirent peoples perspectives.

Cedric, are we reading the same words from Gleber2? I don't understand him as you do at all. Maybe his plea "to not be misunderstood" got through to you, but it sure didn't get through to me. An XY thing I guess.

Gleber2 I don't agree with you as I read you. Nothing new in that statement. Should I ever change my mind, I'll make sure that you are the first to know. But don't keep the light on waiting for that day.

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

Cedric, are we reading the same words from Gleber2? I don't understand him as you do at all. Maybe his plea "to not be misunderstood" got through to you, but it sure didn't get through to me. An XY thing I guess.

Gleber2 I don't agree with you as I read you. Nothing new in that statement. Should I ever change my mind, I'll make sure that you are the first to know. But don't keep the light on waiting for that day.

Canuck,I'm not an XY.I m a guy in Caithness trying to bring up my kids,with Obiron,to make them appreciate the best things in life.To appreciate the best in all life and to see the good in their days.Their too young now to see if it matters but a few years down the line I know I'm gonnae be proud of them!!!

[canuck]

If you want to know why the phrase "new world order" should cause some people to become disturbed, just try Googling the phrase and see what sort of sites you are presented with. The sites you find should explain all.

You are correct JAWS, thank you. I did the googling and indeed New World Order does convey something very different from what I was getting at.

The thing is, who is holding women prisoner?
Was it Germaine Greer who said, liberation for women will begin with a realisation at the kitchen sink? If it was only that easy. That realisation led to radacilism and hatred of men.
Men were trapped too, and still are, just like women, by an internal authority. That's where negotiations for liberation will have to begin.

Yes, I agree. But what you suggest is so foreign to the way the world works now that much work will be necessary to achieve an inner liberation that is effective for the whole of society.

[canuck]

Canuck,I'm not an XY.I m a guy in Caithness trying to bring up my kids,with Obiron,to make them appreciate the best things in life.To appreciate the best in all life and to see the good in their days.Their too young now to see if it matters but a few years down the line I know I'm gonnae be proud of them!!!

And I totally agree with you. I just don't see how what you have written is the same thing that Gleber2 is saying.

[crayola]

but, tying in with the thread is what is going on NOW... nuclear weapons being used in the middle east right now in Lebanon and Iraq.. on civilians, soldiers, women, children.. even babies!!! In Iraq the depleted uranium radiation equals that of 250,000 Nagasaki bombs!

Crikey sjwahwah, I know that massaging of data is an important part of an activist's armoury, but do you really not understand the difference between a conventional explosive in a depleted-uranium tin can with a pointy nose and a nuclear explosion? Get a lesson quick girl or you'll be ripped to shrapnel by anyone with an ounce of understanding of the subject.

Where's szin when he's needed?

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

And I totally agree with you. I just don't see how what you have written is the same thing that Gleber2 is saying.

I quoted one of Gleber2 posts,not what he had said before.Sometimes I agree and sometimes not.If an orger says something I relate to then I will reply.

[sjwahwah]

Crikey sjwahwah, I know that massaging of data is an important part of an activist's armoury, but do you really not understand the difference between a conventional explosive in a depleted-uranium tin can with a pointy nose and a nuclear explosion? Get a lesson quick girl or you'll be ripped to shrapnel by anyone with an ounce of understanding of the subject.

Where's szin when he's needed?

the radiation crayola.. the amount of radiation?!?

and besides we've had this conversation with ex-Army already... see depleted uranium munitions thread. Ex-Army had nae clue as to even what was in the munitions he was using as far as I could make out and and what he says he does know he ain't tellin... that answers my questions. look up Dr. Doug Rokke.

[BLACK DOG]

Radiation - Nuclear -Atomic - Grrrrrrrrrr8 STUFF!

Lets face it where would we be without it !
Thurso and indeed Caithness wouldn't be what it is today.
Orgers would be talking about sheep , tatties 'n' turnips !

[j4bberw0ck]

Have you ever been on a course on managing your emotions? They're really good. They cover the psychology of distress, and they help you to understand when and why you use expressions like "deal with it", and what's going on inside your brain when you classify others as childish. They teach you what to eat to stay healthy and be calm and cool all the time. I can thoroughly recommend one in Glasgow if you're interested.

Thank you for your concern. What a lovely start to the morning! Someone who cares!

You've gotten me confused. Are you claiming to know about employment law or the glamour industry?

Sorry. Actually I was referring to the experience of finding oneself in a job, and marginalised in some way - and of dealing with it. Oh rats, there's that expression again. Terribly sorry. Deep breathing, all together now, one................ two..................

[gleeber]

Yes, I agree. But what you suggest is so foreign to the way the world works now that much work will be necessary to achieve an inner liberation that is effective for the whole of society.

Glebers last post takes us to the heart (and soul) of the problem that concerns all of us when atomic warfare is mentioned.
Ever since archeologists unearthed the first burial chamber, it has become apparent that human beings belief in Gods and afterlife has been around for a long time.
Not only does Gleber use his vision to see the future but he also uses it to suggest there are other levels of existance where his actions in this life will be taken into account in the next. Does that notion ring any bells?
The doom scenario, "the end of the world is nigh" is recorded in every holy book since the beginning of time. Its a human trait which has become more probable, ever since the blast that obliterated Hiroshima occured 60 years ago.
There's a certain inevitability in Glebers post, and although I see a similar inevitability Canucks posts, although she's more hopeful, I suspect both scenarios are powered by the personal religious beliefs they both hold.
That doesnt mean it's going to happen though.
My own faith lies in the goodness of the human animal to overcome the challenges before us.
Freud opened a door over 100 years ago and that door wont shut even though some of you think he was a fraud or barking up the wrong tree. He was warped and egotistical in his contact with people but his idea that the individual is a series of unconscious, as well as conscious drives and instincts is beyond dispute.
Its easier to replace those deep and dark motives hiding in the corners of our personalities with some religion or God rather than delve and become aware of the things that make us how we are.
Einstien explained the outside world and we all see the power that is released when his ideas are taken seriously.
Freud believed his new science would equip the individual to tackle the world in a different way. I think he may have been right.
PS. Freud had an "end of the world is nigh" thing too. He called it the death instinct.

[j4bberw0ck]

My own faith lies in the goodness of the human animal to overcome the challenges before us.

I'd add to that only the word "ingenuity". Well said, gleeber.