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Thread: Enola Gay

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS
    Well that was obvious from the start. You knew that you would automatically get what you were seeking. “All I wanted was to have “sensible” people who would see everything my way!” Or to put it another way, “Anybody who does not agree with me must be absolutely senseless!”
    Yes jaws, I got the response I wanted which is other peoples views on the subject matter I posted on, whether people see things my way or not doesn't come into the equation, everyone including yourself is entitled to their own train of thought and I would never try to force my opinions on anyone else and for you to think so is quite insulting. I used the term, 'sensible' posts as I thought your first two were unnecessarily vitriolic.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS
    You can think what you wish about Hiroshima because, by now, it serves no more purpose than fretting over John Balliol and Robert Bruce and which one should have been the rightful King of Scotland. Doing something to ansure it doesn't happen again is a worthwhile effort but simply complaining, "What terrible things were done!" in an attempt to make people feel some kind of distaste for previous generations serves no purpose at all.
    You are quite right, I can think what I wan't about hiroshima and so can you but I would disagree on your point that talking about it serves no purpose. How do we learn then if not from previous generations mistakes or successes. Pretty strange analogy you are making about hiroshima and whether john balliol or robert bruce should have been king but nevermind, that's your prerogative.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS
    “I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds” was the comment Robert Oppenheimer made when the first bomb was tested at Los Alamos and not about Hiroshima.
    I never implied that he said that about hiroshima.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS
    All the comments about what would have happened had the bombs not been used is nothing more than pure speculation.
    Of course it is speculation and won't change what happened but by remembering and discussing things we can perhaps learn from past mistakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS
    Doing something to ensure it doesn't happen again is a worthwhile effort
    Exactly.....
    Last edited by pultneytooner; 27-Jul-06 at 23:48.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtic 302
    1. there not weapons of mass destrucion. WoMD are Nucs, where as the weapons that were at prestwick for a while were laser guided missiles. 2. im a youth, who isnt old enought to vote, so wat can i do, and who would really listen????
    I consider a weapon of mass destruction to be any item of weaponry rich people make too much money off peddling and can kill more than one person at one time... anything less is called a gun.

    what you can do about it... no matter what you feel strongly about and in your mind and research it is fact.. tell people.. if they ridicule you or tell you you're crazy despite the facts presented... don't despair.. they've heard you.. and can't unhear you.. (fred's cognitive dissonance post comes into this) and the next time something dodgy comes up on the topic... these people will have their cogs turning...

    next thing.. stop buying into the system.. that is probably the number one thing you can do... the less dependence on them the less control they have on you.
    Last edited by sjwahwah; 28-Jul-06 at 00:33.

  3. #43
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    nice idea sjwahwah (last sentence), but its the government. how can i stop buying into it. lets just think about it. there s the nhs. stop buying in to it? i prefer it to paying much more for private treatment. Schools. i go to one, and i want an education, i cant stop "buying into" one. the list goes on, and im sure u dont want me to bore you.

    middle paragraph. maybe in ur day u could say wat you thought, but nowadays, ifi went around my school, or my friends, and started saying about israel and war etc, id get called a geek, a lozer, a freak, and thats before and after the bullies in the school flush my head down the toilet.

    first line. wat i sayed is not wati consider, just a definition
    "We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance, and wealth with happiness. We are monkeys with money and guns." ~ Tom Waits


  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtic 302
    nice idea sjwahwah (last sentence), but its the government. how can i stop buying into it. lets just think about it. there s the nhs. stop buying in to it? i prefer it to paying much more for private treatment. Schools. i go to one, and i want an education, i cant stop "buying into" one. the list goes on, and im sure u dont want me to bore you.

    middle paragraph. maybe in ur day u could say wat you thought, but nowadays, ifi went around my school, or my friends, and started saying about israel and war etc, id get called a geek, a lozer, a freak, and thats before and after the bullies in the school flush my head down the toilet.

    first line. wat i sayed is not wati consider, just a definition
    i don't use anything off the nhs anymore... i use strictly herbal & chiropractic medicine and I don't eat rubbish. at least you know what your gettin. great your in school... well when you get out.. see the world.. travel... ALOT.. meet people.. learn things.. they can't teach you this in school or out of a book. and find out for yourself what you need to do for yourself and others... (editing.. forgot one other important thing.. learn how to survive.. they don't teach you THAT in school.. learn how to do basic survival skills.. grow your own food, medicine, energy.. basics.. just basics... what I mean is in school they teach that you need to do well so that you can become a worker bee in something most likely very or slightly unethical so you can earn "money" to buy what you need... self-sufficiency on any scale is a step in the right direction.. keep that in mind)

    och.. people call me worse things everyday dear... but, I've seen paragraph two work in their own favour. and remember good ol' Mark Twain..

    "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot"
    Last edited by sjwahwah; 28-Jul-06 at 00:37.

  5. #45
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    first para - point taken
    2nd & 3rd para - unlucky about the name calling. also, whats mark twain got to do with anything?
    "We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance, and wealth with happiness. We are monkeys with money and guns." ~ Tom Waits


  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtic 302
    first para - point taken
    2nd & 3rd para - unlucky about the name calling. also, whats mark twain got to do with anything?
    read the quote one more time!

  7. #47
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    i get it. ive got a Mark Twain quote of my own, that says alot about me.

    "its better to let them think your a fool, that to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
    "We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance, and wealth with happiness. We are monkeys with money and guns." ~ Tom Waits


  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred
    So you found the evidence which you wanted to believe didn't exist but don't want to believe it anyway.

    Colin Powell called the Neocons "crazies" too, can't tell you what the first word was.
    I didn't realise Colin Powell was that important that anybody would remember what he said in the 1970s and 1980s when you said the term was being used.
    Animals I like, people I tolerate.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS
    “I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds” was the comment Robert Oppenheimer made when the first bomb was tested at Los Alamos and not about Hiroshima.

    Quote Originally Posted by pultneytooner
    I never implied that he said that about hiroshima.

    Quote Originally Posted by pultneytooner
    On the 6th of august 1945, a boeing b29 superfortress took off from the tinian island in the pacific carrying an awesome new weapon weighing almost 10,000lbs and containing 140lbs of deadly uranium 235.
    The bomb was code-named little boy, the target for the mission, hiroshima.
    The bomb load was released over it's target at 0915 hrs at an altitude of 31,000 feet.
    Little boy exploded 800 feet above the target with the equivalent force of 20,000 tons of t.n.t.
    Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds…..
    Sorry pultneytooner, silly me. I must take a crash refresher course on English Comprehension.
    I didn’t realise that the last line was nothing to do with the rest of that particular post which was all about what happened at Hiroshima.
    Animals I like, people I tolerate.

  10. #50
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    "maybe in ur day u could say wat you thought, but nowadays, ifi went around my school, or my friends, and started saying about israel and war etc, id get called a geek, a lozer, a freak, and thats before and after the bullies in the school flush my head down the toilet."



    Reading your post saddens me. A lot. What chance has Britain got if people will not voice an opinion for fear of ridicule by the herd? Be proud that you have an opinion, look at those bullies for what they are: destined to get old and fat with fifteen kids screaming around them as they rot on the sofa watching Big Brother.
    In my schooldays, those who did not voice opinions were the odd ones out. I grew up with punk rock, Brixton and Toxteth riots, CND marches, Greenpeace protests... I was on the Poll Tax march to Trafalgar Square, I saw the police charge their horses straight into the crowd who were doing nothing but standing and I was baton charged by Maggie Thatchers blue suited stormtroopers, I marched with the miners and watched steam rising from Arthur Scargill's rain soaked shoulders as he spoke in Hyde Park. If these things make me a loser, a geek a freak, than I am PROUD to be a loser, a geak and a freak. How terribly sad that we are now raising a generation for whom the most important issues are whether they can get on Pop Idol or what make of trainers to buy.

    I don't know how old you are, but if you are in secondary school maybe you could speak to a teacher, ask them if they can do a history lesson about the Middle East. At least that would start a discussion. From that perhaps you could organise a petition to send to Tony Blair protesting the use of Britain as a staging post for weapons which will be used to kill innocent civilians. There are many ways to make your voice heard.

    As for your Mark Twain quote, that does not apply to you.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 28-Jul-06 at 08:05.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtic 302
    do you support israel fred?
    My country does.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred
    My country does.
    No, your Government does. The Government is not the country.

    New Labour were elected to a third term by 37% of a national voter turnout of 61.3% of the population (see here). So doing the calcs shows that New Labour were elected to power by 22.681% of the population of Britain. Hardly representative of the 'country' is it?
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 28-Jul-06 at 09:47.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtic 302
    middle paragraph. maybe in ur day u could say wat you thought, but nowadays, ifi went around my school, or my friends, and started saying about israel and war etc, id get called a geek, a lozer, a freak, and thats before and after the bullies in the school flush my head down the toilet.
    Then just tell them about an Emperor and some new clothes and maybe when they grow up they will remember and they will understand the world better.

    "All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjwahwah
    I consider a weapon of mass destruction to be any item of weaponry rich people make too much money off peddling and can kill more than one person at one time... anything less is called a gun.
    China is fast emerging as one of the world's biggest, most secretive and irresponsible arms exporters,

    The report shows how Chinese weapons have helped sustain brutal conflicts, criminal violence and other grave human rights violations in countries such as Sudan, Nepal, Burma and South Africa.

    'China's arms exports policy is reckless and dangerous, paying no heed to human rights. It is the only major arms exporter that has not signed up to agreements preventing arms exports to human rights abusers.'
    China's arms exports, estimated to be in excess of US$1 billion a year, often involve the exchange of weapons for raw materials to fuel the country's rapid economic growth. But it is a trade shrouded in secrecy: Beijing does not publish any information about arms transfers abroad and hasn't submitted any data to the UN Register on Conventional Arms in the last eight years.

    The report's main findings include:
    More than 200 Chinese military trucks -- normally fitted with US Cummins diesel engines -- shipped to Sudan in August 2005, despite a US arms embargo on both countries and the involvement of similar vehicles in the killing and abduction of civilians in Darfur;
    Regular Chinese military shipments to Burma (Myanmar), including the supply in August 2005 of 400 military trucks to the Burmese army despite its involvement in the torture, killing and forced eviction of hundreds of thousands of civilians;
    Chinese military exports to Nepal in 2005 and early 2006, including a deal to supply nearly 25 thousand Chinese-made rifles and 18,000 grenades to Nepalese security forces, at the time involved in the brutal repression of thousands of civilian demonstrators;
    An increasingly illicit trade in Chinese-made Norinco pistols in Australia, Malaysia, Thailand and particularly South Africa, where they are commonly used for robbery, rape and other crimes.
    A report by the nasty media? No, a report produced by Amnesty International 09 June 2006
    http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16985


    Analyses from private and some western government experts estimate Hizbollah has stockpiled at least 10,000 of the Katushya. According to sources at the United Nations, Hizbollah claimed a year ago that it had 12,000. John Pike, a defence expert at GlobalSecurity.org, said the organisation had used only about 3 per cent of its arsenal since it began its recent campaign.
    The analyses also concur with Israeli assessments that the group has longer-range missiles including the Iranian-made Fajr, with a 45km range, and even possibly the larger 200km-range Zelzal, with the theoretical capacity to reach Tel Aviv.
    Hizbollah also displayed signs of increasing sophistication with the firing of a C-802 Silkworm cruise missile, with an anti-jamming capacity, at an Israeli ship last week. The radar-guided missile, which can be fired from land or sea, could have been in China's arsenal in the 1980s and have reached Hizbollah after modification by a third party, possibly Iran, analysts said.
    They agreed that the Hizbollah campaign could not have been spontaneous and had been planned, at least as a contingency, for some time.
    Hizbollah is said to have received much of its weaponry from Iran and from Syria. Officials at the UN, who asked not to be identified, said missiles had transited through Syria.

    Last October, a report by Kofi Annan, UN secretary-general, cited evidence of "an increasing influx of weaponry and personnel from Syria" to militia in Lebanon. In February, the UN issued warnings about a large transfer of arms from Syria to Lebanon on January 31, and collusion by the Lebanese army. In March, the Lebanese government maintained that the flow had stopped, a UN official said, but it was unclear whether that was the case.
    UN officials have said that at a September 9 meeting last year, Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad told militia leaders that there were no red lines limiting their destabilising activity in Lebanon.
    http://www.iiss.org/whats-new/iiss-i...ained-campaign

    Fancy Amnesty International spreading such nasty lies about China. Everybody knows that it's only greedy Western Arms Manufacturers who behave in that manner.

    And to add to that, the UN spreading malicious stories that Iran is involved in supplying Hezbollah with weapons of mass destruction such as the Silkworm Missile.
    Then Kofi Annan joining in saying that there is an increasing influx of weaponry and personnel from Syria to militia (read Hezbollah) in Lebanon and the Lebanese Army are colluding with this.

    And the Katyusha Rockets? Now who would you think manufactured them? Couldn’t possibly be Russia could it?

    Makes you wonder just who is stirring things up in the Middle East and in many other trouble-spots round the World supplying Weapons of Mass Destruction. .
    Animals I like, people I tolerate.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought
    No, your Government does. The Government is not the country.

    New Labour were elected to a third term by 37% of a national voter turnout of 61.3% of the population (see here). So doing the calcs shows that New Labour were elected to power by 22.681% of the population of Britain. Hardly representative of the 'country' is it?
    So our system of democracy is unfair, it doesn't alter anything.

    If you are a part of a democratic group you agree to abide by the majority decision on matters which involve the group. Labour was elected to represent Britain under the rules for elections which were in place at the time so they make decisions on behalf of all of us even if some of us don't agree with them. As an individual I don't support Israel but in the world Britain does.

    There are a lot of laws I don't agree with but that doesn't count for much if I'm caught breaking one of them.

    At least Americans have the excuse that their elections were rigged, we don't even have that.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS
    I didn't realise Colin Powell was that important that anybody would remember what he said in the 1970s and 1980s when you said the term was being used.
    There are so many things you never realised JAWS.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjwahwah
    i don't use anything off the nhs anymore...
    Oh so you're paying for something you don't use? Or are you one of the spongers who takes but pays no taxes?

    And then when you have an accident or you are involved in a life threatening situation (heaven forbid) you're going to treat yourself? Or are you going to refuse the NHS ambulance which turns up at your door?


    Oh, I forgot, by then there will be no ambulance service in the far north as the NHS will have withdrawn it to Inverness and you're probably be served by community "First Responders" (who do a valiant job propping up the health service cuts inflicted by the government I did not vote for....)

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS
    A report by the nasty media? No, a report produced by Amnesty International 09 June 2006
    http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16985



    http://www.iiss.org/whats-new/iiss-i...ained-campaign

    Fancy Amnesty International spreading such nasty lies about China. Everybody knows that it's only greedy Western Arms Manufacturers who behave in that manner.

    And to add to that, the UN spreading malicious stories that Iran is involved in supplying Hezbollah with weapons of mass destruction such as the Silkworm Missile.
    Then Kofi Annan joining in saying that there is an increasing influx of weaponry and personnel from Syria to militia (read Hezbollah) in Lebanon and the Lebanese Army are colluding with this.

    And the Katyusha Rockets? Now who would you think manufactured them? Couldn’t possibly be Russia could it?

    Makes you wonder just who is stirring things up in the Middle East and in many other trouble-spots round the World supplying Weapons of Mass Destruction. .
    where in my comment do you see me mention "western world arms dealers"??? I'm fully aware that Hugo Chavez has agreed a sale of fighter jets with Putin yesturday and is going to support him for the UN Security Council.. and so he should cause Venezuelas next on the public menu.

    You don't need to convince me all the globalists are just as evil as each other.. no matter their geographical location.

    And I think you have my comments on China mixed up with the Media Manipulation thread.. I know you've been gone for a whole day... but, we'll keep ya right ol buddy.

  19. #59
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    i believe.. I pay taxes everyday. I am referring to prescription suicide... I do not use pharmaceuticals... not even aspirin... or vaccines.. my problem with the health service is that "preventive" medicine is not their priorty.. and the number of drugs they dole out everyday that suppress symptoms of one illness cause other ailments. I have nothing against the doctors or nurses.. they are doing a good job... but, big pharma predicts to them what they should do whether the doctors know better or not.

    I'm a perfectly fit person and am not expecting any accidents in the near future.. if I do though, say chop off a finger or break my kneecap I'll let you know how it goes.

  20. #60
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    You "believe" you pay taxes?

    I pay taxes too - I don't have kids but I still seem to be paying onto the education pot. Fair? Not in my eyes.

    We use the NHS - so far we have been pretty happy with our 'treatment' (including some serious health scares which thankfully proved to be false), we have an excellent GP who actually is willing to spend time with her patients and not just rush you in and out while clock watching.

    So I don't begrudge paying my part, but I do begrudge the government/NHS (mis)managers threatening the closure of the very services, at our local main hospital, which we had to use recently....


    No vaccines?
    No kids?
    (Isn't there a legal requirement on parents to have their children vaccinated against childhood diseases? I ask as I don't have any rugrats...)

    No vaccines?
    No travel abroad?
    Quote Originally Posted by sjwahwah
    well when you get out.. see the world.. travel... ALOT.. meet people.. learn things.. they can't teach you this in school or out of a book.
    So, say you do, you travel to countries with a vaccination requirement but you don't get vaccinated?...
    You risk catching Typhoid, Hepatitis A, Diphtheria, Tuberculosis, Hepatitis B, Rabies, Meningococcal meningitis, Yellow fever, Japanese B encephalitis, Tick-borne encephalitis?......

    I just wonder, if you follow your own advice ("see the world.. travel... ALOT.."), how you will approach a vaccine situation without feeling a hypocrite...



    Or is that when you change your username to "sjblahblah"?......
    Last edited by MadPict; 28-Jul-06 at 14:08.

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