Railways

[bluenose]

A letter in today's Telegraph calls from the closure of all railways north of Inverness, and possibly Aberdeen. With the money saved he calls for an extension of the operating hours of the Highlands and Islands airports. That sounds unfeasible to me due to my (irrational) fear of flying and inability to drive.
Any comments.

[Donnie]

You've got the bus aswell but I don't think the trains would stop. It would be great tho if flights were cheaper.

[scotsboy]

It is nonsense.

[JAWS]

Great idea.

Inverness/Manchester return £404.
London/New York return £415.

I didn't realise New York was only £11 further than Manchester.
Who's going to subsidise the flights to bring them down to the same level as railway fares?
Who's going to give the environmentalists tranquilisers to get them off the ceiling?

I don't know what sort of balloon thought that one up, he must have his own aircraft!

[Fifi]

What a pillock! I have known plenty of times when the trains have kept going when the planes didn't! Does he not realise that railways provide service along the whole length of the line - not just at the start and ultimate destination so a Wick/Edinburgh or Inverness flight is not a lot of use to someone in Brora! As for public policy - I thought they were trying to get vehicles OFF the roads so telling people to take the bus does not add up! Grrr, getting really angry with this man...... I have attached his letter for your info.


Re: Spend the money on planes and roads
Date: 22 June 2004

Sir - The fact that trains are less fuel-efficient than the family car and even the latest airliners (report, June 21) should come as no surprise. In the modern world, railways are at their best on short- and medium-distance journeys through densely populated urban and suburban areas.

Railway rolling stock is heavy, which adds to the fuel consumption, and load factors overall are far less than those attained by airlines. An overall figure of 20 per cent, good for trains, would bankrupt an airline, which would usually manage between 70 and 95 per cent.

On top of this is the massive cost, financial and environmental, of building and maintaining long lengths of railway line. I have known periods of bad weather when the airlines have kept flying while railways ground to a halt. It is easier to keep a couple of miles of runways clear of snow at either end of the journey than to keep 400 miles of railway line clear.

What are the implications for public policy? Surely certain lengthy marginal routes should now be closed. In Scotland, for example, we don't need railways north of Inverness, and indeed, except for the routes to Aberdeen, do we really need anything north of the Edinburgh-Glasgow corridor?

The money saved would be better spent on a new crossing of the Firth of Forth and in extending the operating hours of the smaller airports in the Highlands and Islands.

From:
David Wragg, Author: Signal Failure - Politics and Britain's Railways, Edinburgh

[JAWS]

Thanks for details of the letter fifi it answers a lot of questions.

The main one is that he is obviously advertising his book. Another is that he is obviously sick of sitting in the congestion created by the Edinburgh Mob on the Forth Road Bridge.

The question he really should be asking is, "Does Scotland really need the Central Belt?" Or should it be "The Self-Centred Belt"?

[grmacken]

what a load of crap!! typical southerner who thinks they know whats best for the highlands, soon people in the highland will not be able to afford to run thier cars, fuel prices are pushing air travel cost up, centralising the hospitals... why dont they just pass a law in parlament banning anyone from living in the highlands and just fill it with wind farms.

This idiot probibly doesnt realise the north line is used for Freight as well as the passenger service.

[golach]

Another is that he is obviously sick of sitting in the congestion created by the Edinburgh Mob on the Forth Road Bridge.

Weel Jaws ye ken what buttons till press, ye are nearly as good as Gleeber
May I as a Caithness cheil by birth and a Leither by marriage attempt to correct you, reference the road bridge, Its no "the Edinburgh Mob" that causes the congestion its the Fly Fifers who mostly comute.
Bring on the Congestion Charges. I have my free bus pass

Golach

[JAWS]

Fife, That's just Edinburgh north of the Forth.
Congestion Charges, that's just a Big Sign saying "We don't want your Business here. Go away Owd Reekie's Shut".
Funny that should suddenly be suggested now the Tropical House is about to open!
As usual all it's fit for is copying London because it wants to feel important! There'll be an elected Mayor next!

[Kenn]

OK so just who is this man Mr David Wragg? Obviously he is not an enviromentalist,not a resident of The Highlands,not a car driver,not even a person with common sense.So how comes he gets to write such utter drivel in what would appear to be an official position?
Baffles me !

[JAWS]

Perhaps he is related to a manny by the name of Beeching!
Mind you, even he realised that 500 tons of freight on an aeroplane wasn't such a good idea.

"I'll drop in and see you" could take on a whole new meaning!

[JAWS]

Thought the name rang a bell, admittedly a very small one.

Wragg is an author who writes, among other things, for Jayne's Military Aircraft.
He also writes on Political involvement in the way Railways are run.

From the short list of his books I found I suspect he has an agenda of some sort, though without dignifying his ideas by reading them I'm not sure what.

[simian sally]

Another is that he is obviously sick of sitting in the congestion created by the Edinburgh Mob on the Forth Road Bridge.

Weel Jaws ye ken what buttons till press, ye are nearly as good as Gleeber
May I as a Caithness cheil by birth and a Leither by marriage attempt to correct you, reference the road bridge, Its no "the Edinburgh Mob" that causes the congestion its the Fly Fifers who mostly comute.
Bring on the Congestion Charges. I have my free bus pass

Golach

Lo Golach!

It had to happen some day. We agree on something! The Fifeshire Fowlkies are indeed the problem on the bridge.

My personal jury is still out on congestion charges. I love the idea of a comprehensive tram system, and I am happy to see the new guided busway being built past Broomhouse, but I remain to be convinced the Cooncil will ringfence the money raised by the charges.

Still, they are not as ignorant as Mr Wragg and never will be.

[JAWS]

There's a simple solution to congestion in Edinburgh - Decentralisation.

In this day and age there is no reason whatsoever for everything to be confined to one place.

All Government and Civil Service jobs should be moved to the Regions. Businesses should get financial encouragement to move to less crowded areas.
Modern Technology makes all this need for huddling together on top of one another out dated. It creates an artificial environment which distorts property and land values, distorts travel, distorts peoples concept of "being alive" and installs a belief that everywhere else is either subserviant, irrelevant or just there so City Folk have somewhere to play in their spare time.

Hence the belief that anywhere north of the Forth/Clyde Corridor is mearly an economic leach gobbling up money that would be better spent propping up the unwieldy and decaying City Environment.

No huge City then no congestion, no pollution, no horrific house prices, no rat-race. You can carry on making your own list, it goes on forever.

I'm afraid Mr Wragg is just an extreme version of the average City Dweller.

[simian sally]

There's a simple solution to congestion in Edinburgh - Decentralisation.

JAWS has half a point.

In this day and age there is no reason whatsoever for everything to be confined to one place.

But only half a point. There are lots of reasons for things to be close together:-
economies of scale;
convenience;
minimisation of average distances travelled;
etc.

Decentralisation is fine, within limits, but it would be silly to move all Government and Civil Service jobs to the regions because they would become too far apart from each other to cooperate properly. Modern technology solves some problems but it doesn't solve all of them, not yet anyways.

I don't think the average city dweller is any less informed or ignorant than the average Caithness dweller. They are have different experiences and are ignorant about different things.

Finally, I hope you are not referring to me as an average city dweller. I am far from average, I tell you.

And I am still looking for a man with silver teeth in the photos of NAG in Edinburgh on today's front page. I am sure a man with a solution to all known problems was in attendance.
Unless he has already solved the problem and not shared his solution with us yet.

I spotted MSPs Jamie Stone, Rob Gibson, Tommy Sheridan and Robin Harper in the photos. Does anyone know who the others were? I recognise the woman with the white hair but I have forgotten her name. She is a Highlands list MSP, I think.....

Ok, got her. I think she is Maureen Macmillan.

Keep it up JAWS, these boards would be a poorer place without your thoughts.

[golach]

There's a simple solution to congestion in Edinburgh - Decentralisation.
In this day and age there is no reason whatsoever for everything to be confined to one place.

Jaws, there is an abomination of a building which will cause more fall out and hot air than Dounreay ever could sited a few hundred yards from me at the moment. Oh if I hed the powers of Star Trek, I would transport the above mentioned scar on the beautiful sky line of the "Athens of the North" as my adopted city is oft refered as, to Clyth in an instant along with all and sundry MSP's in it, and grant ye your wish for Decenteralisation
Jaws my present to you "The Scottish Parliament Building"!!!!

Golach

[simian sally]

No no no Golach.....

I have better buildings to send to Clyth:-

The St James Centre, Appleton Tower, David Hume Tower, the DHS(?) building at the West Port, anything built on Princes St in the 60's, the building opposite Deacon Brodies they use for the curent Parliament, Old St Andrews House, Meadowbank Stadium.

Yes, Meadowbank would be ideal. Caithness needs sports facilities. Beam it up. Distance is no object with modern technology.

[JAWS]

Don't need the buildings, any of them, I've been too close to far too many. Wall to wall buildings or more truthfully horizon to horizon buildings. Clyth is just about as built-up as I can stand.

Sorry, but the average city dweller thinks civilisation ends where the street lights run out. Tell them what Caithness is like and the immediate response is, "What is there to do, don't you get bored?" or once they realise there are no street lights, "You walk out at night, aren't you frightened?" No, I don't have to keep looking over my shoulder when I go out!

Why should Decentralisation be such a problem? Why should distance stop Co-operation? Don't Government Departments know how to use a Telephone or a Fax Machine? Civil Servants, Politicians and the leaders of certain industries like to group together, it makes them feel important because they can call where they are "The Centre of Power" in order to impress people. Suggest moving them from there and they feel they are going to lose some of their "importance".

Economies of Scale? How many Firms have gone out of business falling for that one! All that happens is that you end up with too many of the wrong things and not enough of the right things and just to help things along they all arrive late. British Leyland was created for the benefits of Economies of Scale. Glad to see it's still going from strength to strength.

Convenience? Spending heaven only knows how long getting too and from work. Waiting forever for a gap in the traffic to cross a road. Dodging the wall to wall people.

Minimising distances travelled? Translate into stuck in traffic forever.

Moving Government jobs to outside of Edinburgh is not sending them to Siberia. How do you think companies like Ford and General Motors manage. I'm sure that when somebody buys a new Ford Car the salesman doesn't have to inform Ford Head Office in America. Being far apart doesn't seem to cause them problems with communications.

The main reasons for the fear of de-centralisation is tha the worth of office gossip goes down and the fear that somebody somewhere might just be upto something you don't know about. (And that's a general and not a personal comment) All large offices run the same way.

Huge Cities are now as outmoded as the horse and cart, and about as efficient.