United 93

[Nello]

Mobile phones CAN interfere with avionic systems onboard an aircraft .. a Puma Helicopter landing at Aberdeen had a failure in the pilots displays caused by a passenger down the back making a call on a mobile phone. It does happen. Also I dont know who told you that the reason you are not allowed to use Mobile phones on board aircraft is because .. "it uses up all the masts" .. just not true I am afraid. Your Mobile phone at 35000 feet doesnt have the power to reach the mast below but it does have the output to affect systems close by such as avionics, As for the metal of an aircraft blocking the signal (if true how do they speak to Air Traffic Control ??) not much store there as receiving a signal of any kind is all about line of sight and signal power (unless you use HF which bounce off layers in the atmosphere to cover large distances) mobile phones lose signal when shielded as they lose line of sight, Radar is a prime example as only a slight fraction of the output is reflected back as it makes two journeys (there and back) while the Electro Magnetic Pulse from a nuke would instantly fry the systems on any aircraft if not shielded from it (one way trip!!) this is why AWACS aircraft shut down the radar totally before air to air refuelling as the radar pulses could possibly ignite fuel vapour in the tankers tanks.

[JAWS]

The BBC H2G2 site give, amongst the dangers to the aircraft equipment the following information on the reasons for not using mobile phones of planes,

An aircraft could be carrying 500 cell phones. While passing directly over a city and thus unhindered by buildings, these phones could be in the line-of-sight of hundreds of base stations and could try to register with all of them. This would impose a temporary but extreme load on the network. The speed of the plane passing over the small inner-city cells would also result in an unusually rapid handover from cell to cell, possibly far in excess of the network's design limits.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A6821318

[fred]

The hijackers attacked at 9:28. While travelling 35,000 feet above eastern Ohio, United 93 suddenly dropped 700 feet. Eleven seconds into the descent, the FAA’s air traffic control centre in Cleveland received the first of two radio transmissions from the aircraft. During the first broadcast, the captain or first officer could be heard declaring "Mayday" amid the sounds of a physical struggle in the cockpit.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...131056,00.html

Admittedly this is from the official report but there is a huge difference between 35,000 feet, 10,000 feet and 700 feet.
I wonder how the plane was supposed to have crashed and how so many of the relatives of those who died were tricked into believing they had been speaking to their loved ones?

If a plane is flying at 35,000ft and it drops 700ft then it is flying at 34,300ft, the plane later climed to over 40,000ft.

Research in Canada after 9/11 proved the probability of a cell phone connecting from a commercial airliner at cruising altitude to be less than 1%, there were 10 cellphone calls reported from flight 93, one lasting 13 minutes.

Something doesn't add up.

[PhilR]

Terrorists don't have planes, bombs, tanks, missiles and huge armies, they could never occupy a western country, we arn't defending anything.

.......in Iraq we have flattened entire towns, killed millions.

.

So terrorists dont have bombs or missiles, Fred? Hmmm, so obviously the London bombings were really someone with a big paper bag maybe? And the British helicopter shot down in Basra last month just ran in to a pigeon.....!!

And which particular towns have we entirely flattened in Iraq?
Killed millions?
........Think you've been watching too much Hollywood!

[JAWS]

If a plane is flying at 35,000ft and it drops 700ft then it is flying at 34,300ft, the plane later climed to over 40,000ft.

Research in Canada after 9/11 proved the probability of a cell phone connecting from a commercial airliner at cruising altitude to be less than 1%, there were 10 cellphone calls reported from flight 93, one lasting 13 minutes.

Something doesn't add up.

Perhaps somebody should ask the pilot. If the official version is wrong then what did happen?

[JAWS]

So terrorists dont have bombs or missiles, Fred? Hmmm, so obviously the London bombings were really someone with a big paper bag maybe? And the British helicopter shot down in Basra last month just ran in to a pigeon.....!!

And which particular towns have we entirely flattened in Iraq?
Killed millions?
........Think you've been watching too much Hollywood!

Don't worry PhilR, just think of a number and add add two or three notes on the end.

You can add four Russian Embassy staff to the total. Presumably they too were beheaded by insurgents because Russia invaded Iraq.

[fred]

So terrorists dont have bombs or missiles, Fred? Hmmm, so obviously the London bombings were really someone with a big paper bag maybe? And the British helicopter shot down in Basra last month just ran in to a pigeon.....!!

And which particular towns have we entirely flattened in Iraq?

They don't have bombs of the type dropped from planes in large numbers and they don't have cruise missiles or intercontinental balistic missiles which if you look at the context of the rest of the sentence is obviously what I meant. Or are you another one who thinks it's clever to argue semantics?

How about the city of Falluja, over half of the 39,000 homes damaged and over a quarter destroyed completely, makes anything the terrorists can do pale into insignificance doesn't it?

We were told that a heavy battle attack of Falluja would break the back of the resistance. What happened instead was that we made 300,000 people homeless by flattening their city with little or no impact on the resistance. In fact, the violence rapidly spread to other major cities.

Statement by Congressman George Miller 15th March 2005

Then there was Tal Afar, Al Qaim, Haditha and more.

Killed millions?
........Think you've been watching too much Hollywood!

No, I've been reading the UNICEF reports.

[Nello]

I started this thread as a way of letting people know that United 93 is what I conside to be a well made film about a tragic loss.

But the thread has now been hijacked and turned into a discussion on the war in Iraq. I have served in the Gulf and been in Iraq and If Fred thinks we killed millions and anything we do makes the terrorists actions pale "into insignificance" I am the perfect person to set him straight. I was involved in the "Air" side of things, please pm me with any queries instead of dragging a thread about what I think is a good film into a political discussion based on what you are told by the media

[pultneytooner]

I liked the film, nice bit of fiction but it was well acted.

[Rheghead]

I have just seen the film on the big screen. Can anyone say that they can 'enjoy' a film of this nature much like schindlers list and the Mission?

It was certainly thought-provoking though and not one bit of hollywood glamourisation was seen to boot. I fully recommend it.

[pultneytooner]

If a plane is flying at 35,000ft and it drops 700ft then it is flying at 34,300ft, the plane later climed to over 40,000ft.

Research in Canada after 9/11 proved the probability of a cell phone connecting from a commercial airliner at cruising altitude to be less than 1%, there were 10 cellphone calls reported from flight 93, one lasting 13 minutes.

Something doesn't add up.

All the material presented by the 9/11 Commission has been "tampered with" and the real evidence "has been removed from the public eye".

All the "evidence" that you obtain from the internet is the unadulterated truth.

Fred, I have a bridge over the thames that I'd like to sell you.

[fred]

All the material presented by the 9/11 Commission has been "tampered with" and the real evidence "has been removed from the public eye".

All the "evidence" that you obtain from the internet is the unadulterated truth.

Fred, I have a bridge over the thames that I'd like to sell you.

Remember last year when Katrina hit, all the reports in the news about armed gangs taking over the Convention Center, the murders and rapes in the Superbowl, bodies lying in toilets and being stacked up in freezers, 20 rapes a night one of them a 7 year old girl.

Guess what, they removed four bodies from the Superbowl only one of which died of gunshot wounds and he was dead when he got there. No victims of any rape has come forward, no eyewitness of any rape, no eye witness of any shooting.

How much do we actually know about flight 93? How much hard evidence is there? About the only thing we can say for certain is that cell phones don't work at 35,000ft.

[PhilR]

I started this thread as a way of letting people know that United 93 is what I conside to be a well made film about a tragic loss.

But the thread has now been hijacked and turned into a discussion on the war in Iraq. I have served in the Gulf and been in Iraq and If Fred thinks we killed millions and anything we do makes the terrorists actions pale "into insignificance" I am the perfect person to set him straight. I was involved in the "Air" side of things, please pm me with any queries instead of dragging a thread about what I think is a good film into a political discussion based on what you are told by the media

Nello. You are quite right, and my apologies for continuing your original thread on an unrelated subject. Once again, I couldn't stop myself from reacting to Fred's uninformed, sensationalist, media-fuelled, second hand opinions on Iraq which both you and I know are wrong. (I've been here since 2003).

I'll shut up now, so crack on with a good thread.......

[tisme]

Well I haven't seen United 93, but I watched Flight 93 the other week on DVD, same story different makers?? Thought it was going to be really good, but was a bit dissapointed. Off course no one can tell the real story, so there has to be room for 'artistic license', still found it a bit too Hollywood for me, good ole American Hero in evidence without doubt. Still it doesn't take away the fact that had I been on that plane, don't know if I would have had the nerve to do what those guys did.

[fred]

I started this thread as a way of letting people know that United 93 is what I conside to be a well made film about a tragic loss.

But the thread has now been hijacked and turned into a discussion on the war in Iraq. I have served in the Gulf and been in Iraq and If Fred thinks we killed millions and anything we do makes the terrorists actions pale "into insignificance" I am the perfect person to set him straight. I was involved in the "Air" side of things, please pm me with any queries instead of dragging a thread about what I think is a good film into a political discussion based on what you are told by the media

So what exactly is the difference between a group of people who fight to take back control of a plane which has been hijacked and a group of people who fight to take back control of a country which has been hijacked then?

Arn't they both heros?

[Nello]

To answer your post (in part) .. I refer you to my previous post.

Are you seriously suggesting that the people onboard Flight 93 who were put in a situation not of their making, having known what was going on and seen people killed in front of them, and after all that fighting back against the hijackers are the same as Iraqi Insurgents ?? .. Insurgents who plant roadside bombs and sneak away like cowards or behead people in the most barbaric manner and then put it on the Internet ?? .. Are you ??

Perhaps you would like to meet these heroes yourself, I have been into Iraq and have experience on what you talk about with no knowledge, if you would like to meet these people you think are heroes (and most probably end up on Al Jazeera) I will gladly pay your air fare to Iraq so you can gain first hand knowledge for yourself. Or perhaps you would like to visit Ken Bigleys relatives and describe his killers as heroes ?? .. PM me when you would like to go and I will pay your fare and thats a promise, I think you will find the majority of Iraqis more than happy that Saddam has gone and Iraq is governed by Iraqis now in case you hadnt noticed, they even have their own parliament *gasp*

If you want to make a political point please do it on a separate thread or take me up on my offer, like I said before I started this thread to highlight what I thought was a good film about a tragic event in which the people fought back in an attempt to save their lives, to me thats heroic. I see nothing heroic in kidnapping people and beheading them, do you ??

[fred]

Nello. You are quite right, and my apologies for continuing your original thread on an unrelated subject. Once again, I couldn't stop myself from reacting to Fred's uninformed, sensationalist, media-fuelled, second hand opinions on Iraq which both you and I know are wrong. (I've been here since 2003).

I don't pay much attention to the western media, I was reading an interesting article in this mornings arab News about how the Bush administration uses the media to spread misinformation.

There is an interesting bit on casualty figures in paragraph 7 you should look at as well.

[obiron]

I don't pay much attention to the western media, I was reading an interesting article in this mornings arab News about how the Bush administration uses the media to spread misinformation.

There is an interesting bit on casualty figures in paragraph 7 you should look at as well.

and the arab news isnt full of its own misinformation?????

[Nello]

Sorry Fred,

Would this be the Same Arab Media that whipped up the Muslim World over the Cartoons published in Denmark but publishes anti jewish cartoons on a daily basis in certain Arab Papers ?? .. I have seen for myself.

Seems to me that to get a balanced view you should perhaps listen to both sides .. or see for yourself .. just a thought.

Having just put a political comment here after criticising Fred for it I am going to get my coat and leave this thread to hopefully get back to the original topic.

[fred]

Having just put a political comment here after criticising Fred for it I am going to get my coat and leave this thread to hopefully get back to the original topic.

Your first post was political, political propaganda. "For Evil to triumph Good Men just need do Nothing", I take it the good is us and the evil is them.

The American government knew 9/11 was coming, they expected it because they caused it, it was what the CIA call "blowback" and they knew there was going to be blowback.

Those people you call "evil" wern't always terrorists, when they were lopping various body parts off Russians in Afghanistan they were called freedom fighters while Nelson Mandela was on Americas list of terrorists. Meanwhile America tricked Saddam Hussein into invading Kuwait and used forged satelite photos to convince Saudi Arabia that he was going to invade them next so they would let them build bases there.

The American government knew all along that when the Saudi "freedom fighters" realised that while they were doing Americas dirty work lopping bits off Russians America sneaked in and occupied Saudi there would be blowback, they knew and they didn't care, they were counting on it. Feedom fighter bacame terrorist, ally became enemy and America got to invade a couple of countries.

"For Evil to triumph Good Men just need do Nothing".