United 93

[Nello]

If you havent already seen this film then I can highly recommend it. Just watched it and it is quite moving without being gung ho like your typical American movie about actual events. I think the fact that all the actors are unknowns coupled with the fact it sticks to the known facts makes it really gripping, the director obviously did his research.

For me the fact that the people onboard fought back means a lot, I would like to think that in that situation I would have done the same, but who knows.

September 11 2001 seems a long time ago now so this film should serve as a reminder of the victims on these aircraft and their families who still suffer. A wise man once said that .. "For Evil to triumph Good Men just need do Nothing" .. (cant remember who !!), although they were unsuccesful in their attempt to regain control of their aircraft at least the Passengers on United 93 went out fighting .. may they Rest in Peace.

[landmarker]

I intend to see this. I have listened to the director and he seems earnest and serious, and not at all gung-ho.
Sounds like it moved you Nello. Do you think it's best seen in the cinema on a large screen? How will it translate to dvd?

[luskentyre]

Thanks for the recommendation Nello - I intend to go and see it sometime next week. I'm glad the film focusses on the least "dramatic" flight of that day and instead focusses on the human element. I think it'll be quite moving.

[Nello]

I intend to see this. I have listened to the director and he seems earnest and serious, and not at all gung-ho.
Sounds like it moved you Nello. Do you think it's best seen in the cinema on a large screen? How will it translate to dvd?

I just watched it on DVD (naughty me) but it would be much better at the cinema, the scenes where the relatives realise what is happening but are powerless to help are quite powerful, the director never lets you forget these are real people and never portays them as Heroes and thats what got me. Plus it is factual and has no chest beating scenes although the bit where Todd Beamer just says "Lets Roll" is very tense. I was quite dubious about it but people should see it.

[connieb19]

Is it on in the Thurso Cinema just now?

[JAWS]

"For Evil to triumph Good Men just need do Nothing" .. (cant remember who !!),

It was Edmund Burke, a British Politician in the 1700s, born in Ireland.

[orkneylass]

Hi - so glad to see a positive thread on this subject as I feel that many in the UK have lost sight of who they are and what they should defend. Yes, the USA has made many mistakes but at the end of the day, we are all part of western democracies that offer opportunities and freedoms through free markets, state education etc etc that many in the world can't even imagine. We do have a way of life worth defending and are perhaps so priviledged that we forget this. The day after Sept 11th, there was a few minutes silence observed. I sat in my car in brilliant sunshine overlooking a glorious view in Orkney and wept for what I saw as an attack on me, my culture, my lifestyle. And I also am inspired and humbled by those who fought back because they did it for all of us, just as we should think about what sacrifices we should make for others if called on to do so. Sorry to sound pompous but nobody seems to want to talk about this aspect of what Sept 11th meant.

[fred]

Hi - so glad to see a positive thread on this subject as I feel that many in the UK have lost sight of who they are and what they should defend. Yes, the USA has made many mistakes but at the end of the day, we are all part of western democracies that offer opportunities and freedoms through free markets, state education etc etc that many in the world can't even imagine. We do have a way of life worth defending and are perhaps so priviledged that we forget this. The day after Sept 11th, there was a few minutes silence observed. I sat in my car in brilliant sunshine overlooking a glorious view in Orkney and wept for what I saw as an attack on me, my culture, my lifestyle. And I also am inspired and humbled by those who fought back because they did it for all of us, just as we should think about what sacrifices we should make for others if called on to do so. Sorry to sound pompous but nobody seems to want to talk about this aspect of what Sept 11th meant.

We arn't the only ones in the world with a way of life we want to protect Orkneylass, our way of life isn't even under threat. Terrorists don't have planes, bombs, tanks, missiles and huge armies, they could never occupy a western country, we arn't defending anything.

People talk about 9/11 like it was the start, it wasn't, we'd been doing far worse in their countries for a long time, in Iraq we have flattened entire towns, killed millions.

If you are at all interested in learning the truth there is a BBC documentary called "Why we fight" at http://www.indybay.org/olduploads/why_we_fight.ram . In it you can hear what people inside the American government say, you can hear what someone who lost their son on 9/11 has to say, it explains what happened and why, it gives the full picture.

Alternatively you could just concentrate on Hollywoods version of one tiny piece of the puzzle and pretend that's all there is.

[Niall Fernie]

TV movie, worth a watch but not worth a cinema excursion. If you like American daytime soaps you'll love it. (its not really as bad as that - worth a dvd rental when it comes out)

[brandy]

just reading the posts above.. and it saddens me.. because everytime this subject comes up.. we always hear about who is to blame .. they did this they did that.
im not blind to the attrocieties that we as a "civilised" people do.
however we really do need to stop and think.. that the majority of casualties in this war.. as in all others are the normal everyday people just like you and me.
its not the soldiers.. or the goverments.. or the men behind the destruction.. its the mothers.. and the children.. the fathers.. and brothers and sisters and grandparents..people just going about their everyday lives.. trying to love and live.
in todays world the weapons are so much bigger and better.. than they were years ago. how easy is it to kill people from a distance when you dont have to snuff out the spark of life with your own hands.
murder is murder no matter how you dress it up.
does might really make right?
does GOD really want us to fight holy wars?
it breaks my heart every day to see the corruption and evil in the world.
and i do think.. what kind of future does my family have?
we have lived in peace for a while now.
how much longer before.. the war is in our backyard.. on a daily basis..
I commend those people onboard flight 93 .. they knew that they were going to die.
and they choose to go out fighting..
to try and stop any more people from being hurt.
that is what we have to remember.. they didnt die fighting for their country or gov.
they died to try and stop a massacre much greater than what had already happened.
they could have held back .. in hope that they could have survived..
but in true human spirit.. they took up the slack.. told their loved ones goodbye.. warned the world as best they could and took the bull by the horns. to save lives..
no one is right in this mockery..
but at least they did not die in vain.. they ultimatly saved human life.. and that is what we remember them for.
not whose fault it was or why the planes were hijacked.
but simply they faught for life. just as the firemen in new york and the others thruout history who have fought tyrany.. not just in the west but everywhere else.
there will always be those who are power hungry .. and corrupt and hold life in little regard.. and there will always be those who will give their lives to save others.

[_Ju_]

does GOD really want us to fight holy wars?

Now Bush knows God is on his side and AlQuaeda is fighting the infidels in the name of God. Either one of them has got it wrong, and God is not on their side or He is two faced, backing both or He is just "our" excuse to commit atrocities as has happened so many times in History.

I am sure that the fim in question is a good human interest story. I would suggest that everyone also watch Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11. Money does make the world go round....or at least has launched a thousand battles.

PS: I believe that religion is just the excuse. I don't believe in what we (as Human beings- not cristian, muslim, Hindu or whatever) potray as God.

[JAWS]

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato.

[sjwahwah]

"A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny." - Alexander Solzhenitsyn




think...all the places people struggle to get a mobile signal driving around Caithness & Scotland for that matter (even only standing in the basement of a building?) I'm still amazed at the incredible mobile technology they must have in the states that you can get multiple, crisp, identifiable signals above 30,000 feet, travelling 350 mph, encased in an aluminium, highly insolated pressurised cage.

[JAWS]

"A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny." - Alexander Solzhenitsyn




think...all the places people struggle to get a mobile signal driving around Caithness & Scotland for that matter (even only standing in the basement of a building?) I'm still amazed at the incredible mobile technology they must have in the states that you can get multiple, crisp, identifiable signals above 30,000 feet, travelling 350 mph, encased in an aluminium, highly insolated pressurised cage.

It's called "Line of Sight" and is no more difficult to understand than an indoor TV aerial not working very well in a basement or a car radio not working in a tunnel.

[fred]

It's called "Line of Sight" and is no more difficult to understand than an indoor TV aerial not working very well in a basement or a car radio not working in a tunnel.

That might be so but nobody else seems to be able to get a cell phone to work on a plane above 5,000ft and flight 93 was at 35,000 ft according to air traffic control.

[Nello]

Thats because they were using the phones installed aboard the aircraft which are integrated into the aircrafts systems. Mobile phones can interfere with the aircrafts systems and affect the displays in the cockpit (which is why American aircraft are fitted with these "Skyphones") which are installed with protective systems to ensure they do not have such an effect.

[JAWS]

That might be so but nobody else seems to be able to get a cell phone to work on a plane above 5,000ft and flight 93 was at 35,000 ft according to air traffic control.

I don't know the exact range but even in Caithness the range is more than 5000 feet. If it wasn't there would have to be Mobile Phonemasts at less intervals than every two miles for there to be coverage. You wouldn't be able to move without tripping over one, the place would be buried under them.

[George Brims]

It's not so much that the Sky Phones "have protective systems" it's that they're built into the plane and have an external antenna. They are turned off during takeoff and landing.

[sjwahwah]

all avionics are protected from stray electromagnetic signals.. it is a myth that a mobile phone can interfere with with the sensitive systems in an aircraft. also, not all the calls were made from the Sky phones.. many from mobile phones.

It is not a matter of IF you can get a signal above 10,000 ft. the fact is you probably can every once in a great while.. touch and go situation depending if you are flying in an area where there are lots of masts. but, then.. the speed you are going causes the phone to use several masts to send signals....if available (this is why they don't allow mobile phone usage on planes.... would jam up loads of the masts if everyone did this... as you're using several masts to send a signal rather than just one.)

and an aircraft is built of metal... a few layers of. metal blocks out significant amounts of the electro field.. won't touch the magnetic field but, would definately weaken the electro fields; therefore the entire signal.

[JAWS]

The hijackers attacked at 9:28. While travelling 35,000 feet above eastern Ohio, United 93 suddenly dropped 700 feet. Eleven seconds into the descent, the FAA’s air traffic control centre in Cleveland received the first of two radio transmissions from the aircraft. During the first broadcast, the captain or first officer could be heard declaring "Mayday" amid the sounds of a physical struggle in the cockpit.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...131056,00.html

Admittedly this is from the official report but there is a huge difference between 35,000 feet, 10,000 feet and 700 feet.
I wonder how the plane was supposed to have crashed and how so many of the relatives of those who died were tricked into believing they had been speaking to their loved ones?