Should the Pope be in the dock????

[Amy-Winehouse]

Going by reports all of this week, the Pope Benedict has been covering up a case of child abuse by a priest . For someone in such a high position & preaching morals to millions , does it not smack of hypocrisy ?

I read that he cant be touched as hes head of state(the Vatican )of the smallest state in the world, Do you think this is right ??

There were also allegation s that the previous pontiff John Paul knew about child abuse in the church, concerning Priests in a school for deaf kids.

Why are these people not investigated ??

Thoughts

[upolian]

So much for everybody being 'equal', because of his status he can do what he likes......i think its completely wrong! People without his status will think its ok to go against the law because he is doing it! He has re-defined the word hypocrit.

[golach]

Going by reports all of this week, the Pope Benedict has been covering up a case of child abuse by a priest . For someone in such a high position & preaching morals to millions , does it not smack of hypocrisy ?

I read that he cant be touched as hes head of state(the Vatican )of the smallest state in the world, Do you think this is right ??

There were also allegation s that the previous pontiff John Paul knew about child abuse in the church, concerning Priests in a school for deaf kids.

Why are these people not investigated ??

Thoughts

If this had been posted by any other Orger than yourself, I may have made some constructive comment, you are well known for your anti catholic views Amy, your stirring it!!!

[Rictina]

I think you have a fair & valid point.

[wicker8]

its disgusting that nothing is done

[ducati]

"Should the Pope be in the dock?"

"Do Bears crap in the woods?"

[Invisible]

Yeah and I bet he doesn't paid road tax for the Pope Mobile, extra long sentence

[onecalledk]

If this had been posted by any other Orger than yourself, I may have made some constructive comment, you are well known for your anti catholic views Amy, your stirring it!!!

I fail to see how someone can be accused of "stirring it" when the facts speak for themselves. The catholic church should hang its head in shame, in any other "occupation" then the person in charge as it were would be investigated and charged if found to have known and done nothing about it.

The catholic church is not immune from prosecution. It is in a place of power, if it abuses this power then it should be held to account.

Religion does not equal do what you want !

K

[Amy-Winehouse]

If this had been posted by any other Orger than yourself, I may have made some constructive comment, you are well known for your anti catholic views Amy, your stirring it!!!

Eh? you talk sense sometimes but on this occasion not. Im anti Celtic but not anti catholic Golach, My best friend is a catholic so think again old boy.
As you say Im stirring it, why ? Am i not allowed to have an opinion on the subject because I support Rangers ? Thats a rather blinkered view on your part. Theres a big bad world out there & as a parent I think our kids need protected from the likes of these beasts who prey on young children- dont you ?
Catholic church or Free Presbyterian, i dont care- a beast is a beast & I think they should be punished for their crimes -not covered up.

[annemarie482]

Going by reports all of this week, the Pope Benedict has been covering up a case of child abuse by a priest . For someone in such a high position & preaching morals to millions , does it not smack of hypocrisy ?

I read that he cant be touched as hes head of state(the Vatican )of the smallest state in the world, Do you think this is right ??

There were also allegation s that the previous pontiff John Paul knew about child abuse in the church, concerning Priests in a school for deaf kids.

Why are these people not investigated ??

Thoughts

i couldn't give a hoot who it was, if they knowingly hid such a crime then they should be prosecuted accordingly.
(and in my world as if they had committed the crime themselves!)

[Commore]

Going by reports all of this week, the Pope Benedict has been covering up a case of child abuse by a priest . For someone in such a high position & preaching morals to millions , does it not smack of hypocrisy ?

I read that he cant be touched as hes head of state(the Vatican )of the smallest state in the world, Do you think this is right ??

There were also allegation s that the previous pontiff John Paul knew about child abuse in the church, concerning Priests in a school for deaf kids.

Why are these people not investigated ??

Thoughts

Not only in the Dock, but jailed, shamed and largely forgotten, ie; throw away the key.
Like so many, he is protected by some archaic notion that he untouchable.
What message is being portrayed to the good catholic citizens of the world?
Good post, with good questions.

[3of8]

Going by reports all of this week, the Pope Benedict has been covering up a case of child abuse by a priest . For someone in such a high position & preaching morals to millions , does it not smack of hypocrisy ?

I read that he cant be touched as hes head of state(the Vatican )of the smallest state in the world, Do you think this is right ??

There were also allegation s that the previous pontiff John Paul knew about child abuse in the church, concerning Priests in a school for deaf kids.

Why are these people not investigated ??

Thoughts

A case? Just the one?

Oh, yeah! You may be suggesting that he is embroiled with his own personal controversy?

How about the fact that he's in charge of the Catholic church that seems to be a hidey hole for all wannabe paedophiles? Want to play with little kiddies, legit? Be a priest!

Let's face it, if you or I knew that someone was doing wrong with children, any kind of abuse, and did sod all about it, we would be as bad as the perpetrator.

And if you happen to mention that he is wrong, as Rowan Williams did the other day about the abuse in Ireland by priests, and it upsets church leaders, well tough. Fancy having to issue an apology to the Catholic church for telling them the bloody truth!

Pope Benedict sent a message to Irish Catholics apologising to victims of abusive priests and "acknowledged" their sense of betrayal. Big wow to that Popey baby. He's "truly sorry" that they have suffered grievously. But surely, their suffering would be eased if the Pope himself stood up and was counted in denouncing the priests involved, defrocking them and making sure that they paid for their disgraceful acts with a very long jail term and chemical, if not physical, castration. Not just the Irish priests either. There's the US, German, Swiss, Dutch and Austrian too. And God knows how many other countries.

Personally, I blame the fact that priests have to be celibate is part of the problem. If the turds were allowed to marry and had proper relationships then the matter would not have been as bad. Before people complain about that statement, I know there are married paedophiles. Note what I said --- if they were allowed to marry it would not have been as bad. It's not the only factor.

There are probably paedophiles in most walks of life including, I should imagine, the Protestant clergy too. The big difference here though is that the Catholic church is all powerful, and it wasn't that long ago that the word of the priest was law. This meant that the sexually predatorial priests were able to commit their crimes and get away with it and their bosses were quick to close ranks and shame the offended rather than the offender.

Benedict XVI should be man enough to show the rest of the world he is a true leader, root out the dross, have them prosecuted and drag the Catholic church up by its boot straps. Yeah, in my dreams!

[Anfield]

A case? Just the one?



"..There are probably paedophiles in most walks of life including, I should imagine, the Protestant clergy too.."

Research has shown that the clergy are less likely to be involved in illegal sexual activities with children than the male population in general

"..First, the available research (which is quite good now) suggests that approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor (i.e., anyone under the age of 18). There are approximately 60,000 active and inactive priests and brothers in the United States and thus we estimate that between 1,000 and 3,000 priests have sexually engaged with minors. That's a lot. In fact, that is 3,000 people too many. Any sexual abuse of minors whether perpetrated by priests, other clergy, parents, school teachers, boy-scout leaders or anyone else in whom we entrust our children is horrific. However, although good data is hard to acquire, it appears that this 4% figure is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population that is best estimated to be closer to 8%.."

A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse
By Thomas Plante,
http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

.

[Gronnuck]

IMHO the Catholic Church is guilty of Institutional Abuse of children and vulnerable people. There has clearly been a failure of the Church to provide an appropriate and professional service to children and vulnerable people. The evidence is in the innumerable complaints about the overt and covert behaviour of priests towards children and the prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness of the church hierarchy in not seriously investigating the complaints or of examining the evidence.
The Church and its entire congregation cannot wait for or count on God’s forgiveness; it must allow due process of law to take place and cleanse itself of the stigma in order to regain any credibility.
To all members of the Catholic Church I would say it is time to do something and quote Edmund Burke who said, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

[Anfield]

It is not just priests from the Catholic Church that abuse children.
There are paedophiles in all walks of life.
One only has to look through the pages of the Journal & Courier, to see that Caithness has its fair share of them as well.

[Gronnuck]

It is not just priests from the Catholic Church that abuse children.
There are paedophiles in all walks of life.
One only has to look through the pages of the Journal & Courier, to see that Caithness has its fair share of them as well.

I take your point, these are individuals and will be dealt with as individuals. There should be no hiding place for these people.
The case in point is a wide congregation, an institution, and just as Macpherson defined Institutional Racism in the Metropolitan Police, it is my opinion that Institutional Abuse is prevelent in the Catholic Church.
Every member of the Catholic congregation should be questioning every layer of the hierarchy and must not allow any abuse to be hidden.
If the Pope is to retain any credibility he must initiate independent investigations at every level to clear this scourge from the Church.
To do anything less is to condemn the Catholic Church to stigma and ridicule.

[Anfield]

I take your point, these are individuals and will be dealt with as individuals. There should be no hiding place for these people.
The case in point is a wide congregation, an institution, and just as Macpherson defined Institutional Racism in the Metropolitan Police, it is my opinion that Institutional Abuse is prevelent in the Catholic Church.
Every member of the Catholic congregation should be questioning every layer of the hierarchy and must not allow any abuse to be hidden.
If the Pope is to retain any credibility he must initiate independent investigations at every level to clear this scourge from the Church.
To do anything less is to condemn the Catholic Church to stigma and ridicule.

Would you also agree that as well as Catholic priests, that Teachers, Scout Troop leaders, Nursery Staff and every other occupation that has employed paedophiles, should also "initiate independent investigations at every level"

The Catholic has held its hands up and admitted that mistakes were made.
As most of the abuse occurred a long time ago, only time will tell if they have learnt from their mistakes.

All paedophiles should be prosecuted for their crimes on an even basis, i.e it does matter whether they are Clergy or lay people

[onecalledk]

Research has shown that the clergy are less likely to be involved in illegal sexual activities with children than the male population in general

"..First, the available research (which is quite good now) suggests that approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor (i.e., anyone under the age of 18). There are approximately 60,000 active and inactive priests and brothers in the United States and thus we estimate that between 1,000 and 3,000 priests have sexually engaged with minors. That's a lot. In fact, that is 3,000 people too many. Any sexual abuse of minors whether perpetrated by priests, other clergy, parents, school teachers, boy-scout leaders or anyone else in whom we entrust our children is horrific. However, although good data is hard to acquire, it appears that this 4% figure is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population that is best estimated to be closer to 8%.."

A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse
By Thomas Plante,
http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

.

Sexual abuse by its very nature would be very very hard to provide statistics on. Sexual abuse by its nature is not something that is widely talked about or openly admitted by the victims of said abuse. There is no "perspective" needed on this subject. 1% or 8% makes NO difference to those who have been subjected to it.

Like domestic abuse it is for too long been hidden. Every person who has been let down and abused by another has been failed by society. Perhaps the tide is now turning and stones will start to be unturned. Lets hope so for the next generations sake.

Any abuse is an abuse of power. I would question any organisation that believes that it is more powerful than anything or anyone. Where there is power there is corruption, where there is corruption there is suffering ....

Percentages mean nothing, no statistic can write away what has been endured by these poor children.

The world doesnt need a perspective on sexual abuse by clergy, the clergy however may need a perspective on their place in society .....

K

[scotsboy]

I totally disagree that the Catholic Church has held its hand up and admitted "mistakes"were made. "Mistakes" it seems are still being made, check todays news from Norway.

If it was not for the courage and determination of those children who were abused by people who were meant to be looking after them, the Catholic Church would not be holding its hads up to anything - there is no moral high ground to be held on this issue Anfield. The Catholic Church is a cesspit.

[3of8]

Would you also agree that as well as Catholic priests, that Teachers, Scout Troop leaders, Nursery Staff and every other occupation that has employed paedophiles, should also "initiate independent investigations at every level"

The Catholic has held its hands up and admitted that mistakes were made.
As most of the abuse occurred a long time ago, only time will tell if they have learnt from their mistakes.

All paedophiles should be prosecuted for their crimes on an even basis, i.e it does matter whether they are Clergy or lay people

Seems to me that you are defending the Catholic church and their paedophile priests. That you are trying to justify what they have done by saying that there's less chance of being abused by a priest than there is by any other man.

What I think you have failed to note is that Scout Troop leaders, Nursery staff, teachers and every other occupation that has employed paedophiles has had those paedophiles prosecuted. If they haven't, the law in one form or another, has. The Catholic church, however, hasn't dismissed the dozens if not scores of abusive priests that they know about, have they? Unless you know better?

There's nothing worse than an apologist and you reek of it.