Nato strike kills a number of Afghanistan civilians

[The Drunken Duck]

"..A British soldier killed in a suicide bomb attack in Afghanistan on Saturday has been named as Rifleman Daniel Holkham, from 3rd Battalion The Rifles.

He is the eighth soldier from The Rifles to die this month. Both his brothers also serve in The Rifles.


Since operations began in Afghanistan in 2001, some 278 British military personnel have been killed.."


Let us hope that his other two brothers are not to become further casualties of this illegal war.


The Tories have just unveiled their election posters, and not one of them mentions the wars into which New Labour took us, and which Brown continues to send UK soldiers to their deaths to

Anfield .. please stop updating us with the deaths of British service personnel to make political points. I, for one, dont need you to update me and I am distinctly uncomfortable with you using the deaths of these young men in this way. Adding the photo is not needed, and I am pretty sure his brothers would be fairly unhappy with you using their siblings death to make a point about the legality of the conflict in a long off topic thread after some of the blatantly untrue, ignorant and naive comments you have made in the past about the British Forces. I am sure you can make your points without using the death of a young man who gave a helluva lot more than an opinion on a community forum. He put himself on the line and made the ultimate sacrifice, whatever your views he gave everything for his mates and I am sure his brothers will find comfort in that. I am asking you politely to please stop using these deaths in this way.

[bekisman]

Using a Community website as a political platform by a stated Pacifist is wrong.

[fred]

Using a Community website as a political platform by a stated Pacifist is wrong.

I think in any community there will be people with differing political views and of course everyone will think their political views are the only right political views, that is normal in any community.

I think the only problem is when people say "mine is the only right political view therefore you shouldn't be allowed to state yours".

Just in the last week I have seen two disturbing news articles. One was telling about how much money Tony Blair, the man who committed us to war in Iraq, has made from his oil interests in the Middle East and how he kept it secret from the British public. The other was about Geoff Hoon, the man who was defence secretary at the time we went to war with Iraq, prostituting himself by offering to sell his political influence to American corporations for £5,000 a day and offering to sell his insider knowledge obtained as Britain's representative to NATO to American arms companies.

Now I don't think you need to be a pacifist to realise we've been well and truly had and what our solders have been dying for has not been the people of Britain, well not the vast majority of them anyway and I don't think there is anything unpatriotic about saying so.

[Anfield]

Using a Community website as a political platform by a stated Pacifist is wrong.

How can you say that my post was making a political statement? here are three definitions of a Pacifist:

The belief that disputes between nations should and can be settled peacefully.

Opposition to war or violence as a means of resolving disputes.


Such opposition demonstrated by refusal to participate in military action.


I stand by all three of them

[Anfield]

Anfield .. please stop updating us with the deaths of British service personnel to make political points. I, for one, dont need you to update me and I am distinctly uncomfortable with you using the deaths of these young men in this way. Adding the photo is not needed, and I am pretty sure his brothers would be fairly unhappy with you using their siblings death to make a point about the legality of the conflict in a long off topic thread after some of the blatantly untrue, ignorant and naive comments you have made in the past about the British Forces. I am sure you can make your points without using the death of a young man who gave a helluva lot more than an opinion on a community forum. He put himself on the line and made the ultimate sacrifice, whatever your views he gave everything for his mates and I am sure his brothers will find comfort in that. I am asking you politely to please stop using these deaths in this way.

Why does it make you uncomfortable to be reminded that UK soldiers are being killed in an illegal war. Now that UK soldiers deaths are sometimes not even mentioned on news bulletins it is important to keep people informed.
By the way, do you also feel uncomfortable whilst you carrying out your role in this carnage?

I make no apologies for using photo, this shows that soldier killed was just a kid, and I am sure that his parents would sooner the war ended now before they lose another one of their sons.

I think you will also find that you were the first on this thread to use a photo, and what photo did you use, yes the cockpit of a killing machine.

[northener]

Why does it make you uncomfortable to be reminded that UK soldiers are being killed in an illegal war. Now that UK soldiers deaths are sometimes not even mentioned on news bulletins it is important to keep people informed.
By the way, do you also feel uncomfortable whilst you carrying out your role in this carnage?

I make no apologies for using photo, this shows that soldier killed was just a kid, and I am sure that his parents would sooner the war ended now before they lose another one of their sons.

I think you will also find that you were the first on this thread to use a photo, and what photo did you use, yes the cockpit of a killing machine.

Somebodies beeen watching BBC's little piece about reporting casualties, I see......

Personally, Anfield, if I was a relative of anyone killed in that conflict I'd be pretty well annoyed at anyone who parades the death of someone I know for nothing more than cheap online point-scoring.
And I'd guess that unlike you, I have a large number of friends and acquantances who have lost people in various conflicts over the years.

It's got nothing to do with not being able to handle the 'truth', it's about offering someone some quiet dignity.
It's a very simple concept that appears to be lost on some.

[Anfield]

Somebodies beeen watching BBC's little piece about reporting casualties, I see......

Personally, Anfield, if I was a relative of anyone killed in that conflict I'd be pretty well annoyed at anyone who parades the death of someone I know for nothing more than cheap online point-scoring.
And I'd guess that unlike you, I have a large number of friends and acquantances who have lost people in various conflicts over the years.

It's got nothing to do with not being able to handle the 'truth', it's about offering someone some quiet dignity.
It's a very simple concept that appears to be lost on some.

Other than pointing out that an awful lot of British soldiers are being killed in an illegal war, what type of "point scoring" am I involved in.

And as for your guess about me having no knoledge of death from conflict, you are incorrect.
You state yourself that you and a "large number of friends and acquantances have lost people in various conflicts over the years."

Do you ever think what a waste of life?

[The Drunken Duck]

Why does it make you uncomfortable to be reminded that UK soldiers are being killed in an illegal war. Now that UK soldiers deaths are sometimes not even mentioned on news bulletins it is important to keep people informed.
By the way, do you also feel uncomfortable whilst you carrying out your role in this carnage?

I make no apologies for using photo, this shows that soldier killed was just a kid, and I am sure that his parents would sooner the war ended now before they lose another one of their sons.

I think you will also find that you were the first on this thread to use a photo, and what photo did you use, yes the cockpit of a killing machine.

Listen Anfield.

If you care about the guy then do one of the following .. write a letter to the PM disagreeing with the decision to send him there. Send a contribution to Help for Heroes. Send a contribution to his Regimental Association. Thats respectful. You are using the death of a young man who gave a lot more than you ever did or will to prove a point. Thats disrespectful. Your using this young man has nothing to do with keeping "people informed" as the media do quite a good job of that. Most are even quite good at finding out themselves. Dont try to disguise using the death of this young man in making a politcal point as some kind of concern. Your previous points and comments on this thread prove you have no real concern for anyone in uniform.

How one earth are you "sure" about how his parents feel ??, have you met them ??, Perhaps they are proud that all three of their sons took, and stood by, their oath to this Country. Maybe they would rather that than father someone who does nothing other than stand on the sidelines and bitch and only appears tough enough to fight on the Internet. If you were to do this with a photo of my brother if he was ever killed (he is still serving) you would be taken to task in person.

The photo point is irrelevant. Mine was a photo not taken in Afghanistan and used as a point of humour, it showed a still taken on a FLIR camera of girls sunbathing. Thats a bit different from using the picture of a dead soldier I didnt even know to prove a political point.

As for how I felt during my service, that's none of your buisness. But its interesting how on one hand you are eager to throw the accusation at me of being involved in carnage right alongside supposed sympathy for a dead soldier killed in the line of duty. Do you need a hand to see your own hypocrisy there ??

[golach]

Now that UK soldiers deaths are sometimes not even mentioned on news bulletins.

More lying propaganda again from you anfield?
As far as I can tell, all deaths of UK military forces have been reported, and the residents of Wooton Bassett turn out and show respect for them all. An act that more of us respect and agree with, than the rubbish you post on here.

[Anfield]

The photo point is irrelevant. Mine was a photo not taken in Afghanistan and used as a point of humour, it showed a still taken on a FLIR camera of girls sunbathing. Thats a bit different from using the picture of a dead soldier I didnt even know to prove a political point.

Two things:
1, Why do you think it is acceptable to use a photo as a "point of humour" in such a serious thread.

2 Both you and bekisman have failed to state what type of political point I am trying to score.

All I want is the end of an illegal war, a stance which an awful lot of people support both here and throughout the world

[Anfield]

More lying propaganda again from you anfield?
As far as I can tell, all deaths of UK military forces have been reported, and the residents of Wooton Bassett turn out and show respect for them all. An act that more of us respect and agree with, than the rubbish you post on here.

Once again I must correct you:
"As far as I can tell" is not a very exact statement is it? and what about the rest of the casualties e.g. NATO forces, Afghanistani civillians etc are they all reported upon?

[The Drunken Duck]

Two things:
1, Why do you think it is acceptable to use a photo as a "point of humour" in such a serious thread.

2 Both you and bekisman have failed to state what type of political point I am trying to score.

All I want is the end of an illegal war, a stance which an awful lot of people support both here and throughout the world

1 .. Because it ridiculed your views that civilians are targetted in a sarcastic and witty matter. And girls in bikinis are always nice to see. As someone well aware of the lengths gone to to avoid hitting civilians I think I earned the right to do ridiucle the ridiculous assumption and accusations that were being made. And a "serious thread" ??, dont make me laugh. Anyone who offered a different opinon to what you and others believed were ridiculed and/or ignored. Even if they really knew the subject issue.

2 .. Cant speak for Beks but I am well aware of the political point you are trying to make. That isnt the issue. And for the record I dont agree with the Ops in Iraq and Afghanistan either. The issue is you using the photo of a dead soldier you never knew to make your point about an "illegal war" and then pretending that you are doing it because you care about him and his family. I mean you even dared to post your assumptions of how you think his parents feel in defence of your views. Your point isnt the problem, I actually agree with it, its the methods you used to make it in the light of recent comments. Using that boy in that way is not well received by those who served.

[Anfield]

DD,
We must agree to disagree, but I stand by all the statements I have made and I do respect your postion.

I do not regret posting picture of a "dead soldier I never knew" and that is why I featured it. Instead of becoming another statistic i.e Dead Soldier No 278, we can put a face to the number, it is the face of an ordinary 19 year old who died in a foreign land, far far away from his family.

You criticise me for "assuming" how I felt his parents were feeling.
I would guarantee that his parents are suffering hell because their son has been taken away from them so early into his life.

[The Drunken Duck]

DD,
We must agree to disagree, but I stand by all the statements I have made and I do respect your postion.

I do not regret posting picture of a "dead soldier I never knew" and that is why I featured it. Instead of becoming another statistic i.e Dead Soldier No 278, we can put a face to the number, it is the face of an ordinary 19 year old who died in a foreign land, far far away from his family.

You criticise me for "assuming" how I felt his parents were feeling.
I would guarantee that his parents are suffering hell because their son has been taken away from them so early into his life.

Fair enough .. You just dont get it and I cant be bothered trying to explain it to you anymore.

[golach]

Now that UK soldiers deaths are sometimes not even mentioned on news bulletins it

Once again I must correct you:
"As far as I can tell" is not a very exact statement is it? and what about the rest of the casualties e.g. NATO forces, Afghanistani civillians etc are they all reported upon?

I must correct you:
Where did you mention the rest of the casualties Sic NATO forces, Afghani casualties.
I was not going to bother correcting you spelling, but, civilians has one L, and the Afghan people are not Afghanistani, they are Afghani.
Do try to keep up with your own propaganda

[northener]

Other than pointing out that an awful lot of British soldiers are being killed in an illegal war, what type of "point scoring" am I involved in.

You're doing an online version of dragging bodies out and shrieking "look at this!". Cynically wrapping it up in a sympathy motive.

This is a free and open forum and I respect your right to post as you see fit, but, how about respecting the rights of those who have lost loved ones in this shitty little conflict?

And as for your guess about me having no knoledge of death from conflict, you are incorrect.

Don't recall saying that at all.

You state yourself that you and a "large number of friends and acquantances have lost people in various conflicts over the years."

Do you ever think what a waste of life?

No.


I'll tell you what Anfield, there's been a number of teenagers killed on the roads around here these past few years. I've got photos of two of them. How about you posting them up on here and then try defending your position on the grounds that it's relevant to a local road safety message?

You wouldn't because you know you'd be ripped to shreds within minutes.

Like I said, allowing people a little quiet dignity would go a long way......

[Phill]

Other than pointing out that an awful lot of British soldiers are being killed in an illegal war.........

To which group of unaware .org users are you pointing this out to?


Get a grip.

[Anfield]

quote=Anfield;682835]
And as for your guess about me having no knoledge of death from conflict, you are incorrect.

[/quote]

Don't recall saying that at all.

Selective memory?

"..And I'd guess that unlike you, I have a large number of friends and acquantances who have lost people in various conflicts over the years.."

[Anfield]

To which group of unaware .org users are you pointing this out to?

Seems to me that an awful lot of .org users are unaware that this country is involved in an illegal war

[ducati]

Seems to me that an awful lot of .org users are unaware that this country is involved in an illegal war

An awful lot of .org users are unaware that this country is involved in a war