Westminster Cannot block Scottish Independence

Today I came upon a truly fascinating and enlightening blog by former UK Ambassador, Craig Murray.

If you want to read it in full you can find it here.

The title of this thread is also the title of the article so rather than try to summarise it when its fairly obvious what it is about I thought I would just give a couple of quotes to give you a flavour of its content.

I should warn you, however, that if you are of a Unionist persuasion reading this article may reduce your happiness index down to "mildly miffed" or even "utterly bereft".

1. The Legal Position

" It is the legal opinion of the Government of the United Kingdom, as submitted to the International Court of Justice in the Kosovo case. The International Court of Justice endorsed this view, so it is both established law and the opinion of the British Government that a state has the right to declare Independence without the agreement or permission of the original state and its political or legal authorities."


2. Recognition of an Independent Scotland by Other States, particularly the EU

"It is Scotland, as a potential member with a long history of valued membership and a firm intention to join, which will have the natural support of the EU, the more so as there will be a strong desire to get Scotland’s fishing, energy and mineral resources back within the bloc. The disintegration of the UK will also be encouraged as a salutary lesson to any other states that consider leaving the EU. The political forces within the EU are very, very strongly behind recognition of Scottish Independence."


You won't read about this in the papers or hear about it on the BBC. They don't want you to know things like this.

And don't believe the Unionist scare stories either.

What a load of codswollop.
If this is the best that Boot House Party Central can give you then Nicola needs to get some more sensible story writers on the job. Is there an original thought in your head or is it full of trashprovided by Nicla's idiots

Brilliant. Another one. I was beginning to think the bottom of the barrel containing all the Unionist messenger-attackers had been scraped clean. Really, are you not all thoroughly embarrassed and ashamed of yourselves that your only response to issues you don't like is to adopt smear tactics.

It is interesting that the messenger in this case has a 1st class Honours Degree and, for two years, was British Ambassador to Uzbekistan. He is a former member of the Liberal Democrats. To the best of my knowledge he is not a member of the SNP.

He is more than qualified to write about such matters.

Attachment 35093All these countries have done it yet the zoomers on here think Scotland is unique because we are too wee; too poor and too stupid to be independent.

The description in previous post was provided by a SNP minister of the Scottish Assembly, a wonderful way to gain the support of his fellow countrymen (not). Certainlytthe SNP troughers masquerading as politicians will take lessons in stupidity from no one.

We have had our referendum but rejected it.
Can’t you accept this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bystander1

The description in previous post was provided by a SNP minister of the Scottish Assembly, a wonderful way to gain the support of his fellow countrymen (not). Certainlytthe SNP troughers masquerading as politicians will take lessons in stupidity from no one.

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What? I haven't a clue what this means. I really don't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mi16

We have had our referendum but rejected it.
Can’t you accept this?

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No. Circumstances have changed. Everything we were told would happen if we voted Yes has happened because we voted No.

the polls show no mandate to call a referendum.
The SNP stated that the 2014 referendum was a once in a generation chance.

What happens if remain win again, do you begin campaigning for the trilogy immediately again?
What happens if Indy wins do we have a best of 3 vote off?

David Cameron was bang on when he said this was a neverendum.

But anyway, I thing I will leave the debate on wether blocking is legal or not to the legal bods.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mi16

the polls show no mandate to call a referendum.

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Is that the big "poll" we had just last month, where just 46% of the votes went to seperatist parties? If so, let me try and worth is out - 46% vs 54%....... ?????? Yup, I think you're right - If my arithemetic stands up, less than half of the votes went to seperatist parties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mi16

The SNP stated that the 2014 referendum was a once in a generation chance.

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Yes, there is plenty of video evidence of this online, including from our disgraced ex fisrt minister, as well as the present one, saying not just that the referendum was a once in a generation event, but also a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mi16

What happens if remain win again, do you begin campaigning for the trilogy immediately again?
What happens if Indy wins do we have a best of 3 vote off?

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The precedent has now been set. As soon as any referendum is held, then 50-ish% of the electorate demand another one. So for example, just say there was a referendum and the Scexiteers win. Then another referendum is demanded because circumstances have now changed. We in Orkney bring out the "being dragged out against our will" line (the Scexiteers will have a big uphill struggle to get a Yes vote in every single counting area in Scotland, expecially Orkney and Shetland). With the previous precedent set, the Scexiteers will surely have no choice but to apply their own "rules" - Won't they?

I can see and totally agree with the Orkney and Shetland breakaway theory, but I cannot see it being sanctioned by Holyrood.
Forgive my ignorance to my neighbours but has the Orkney and Shetland islands ever stood on their own as a nation previously in history?
Not that it should make and difference if it is the will of the people, do you fancy taking Caithness with you as your mainland hub?

Well, we have the same post code so reckon we're in with a chance!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by orkneycadian

Is that the big "poll" we had just last month, where just 46% of the votes went to seperatist parties? If so, let me try and worth is out - 46% vs 54%....... ?????? Yup, I think you're right - If my arithemetic stands up, less than half of the votes went to seperatist parties.



Yes, there is plenty of video evidence of this online, including from our disgraced ex fisrt minister, as well as the present one, saying not just that the referendum was a once in a generation event, but also a once in a lifetime opportunity.



The precedent has now been set. As soon as any referendum is held, then 50-ish% of the electorate demand another one. So for example, just say there was a referendum and the Scexiteers win. Then another referendum is demanded because circumstances have now changed. We in Orkney bring out the "being dragged out against our will" line (the Scexiteers will have a big uphill struggle to get a Yes vote in every single counting area in Scotland, expecially Orkney and Shetland). With the previous precedent set, the Scexiteers will surely have no choice but to apply their own "rules" - Won't they?

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Attachment 35095 I take you all disagree with this arch Tory and former Governor General!

If O & S want to be independent then that is entirely up to the people who live there.

However, if the video below is accurate, and I really am not sure if it is, O & S are constitutionally not part of GB but they are part of Scotland. It could lead to some interesting constitutional discussions if O & S do decide to become independent from an independent Scotland and seek to be part of GB.

Just for once, will all you unionists try not to attack the video itself but instead indulge in some sensible discussion about what it claims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mi16

I can see and totally agree with the Orkney and Shetland breakaway theory, but I cannot see it being sanctioned by Holyrood.
Forgive my ignorance to my neighbours but has the Orkney and Shetland islands ever stood on their own as a nation previously in history?
Not that it should make and difference if it is the will of the people, do you fancy taking Caithness with you as your mainland hub?

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When you look back through the history of Orkney and Shetland, some interesting anomalies are thrown up. Some folk are of the opinion that Orkney and Shetland were never formally absorbed into Scotland. The story has it that the islands were only offered as a security for wedding dowry from some Norwegian our Danish King who was a bit skint at the time. Some say that that process was never followed through with, and technically, we are not officially part of Scotland.

Just Google Stuart Hill, or Stuart of Forvik to see some opinions....

That grey area of heritage still pops up from time to time in legal matters. Udal law is still found to apply in some aspects of land ownership, much to the chagrin of the council and their Southern Scotland legal boffins. This law doesn't apply in the rest of Scotland, where feudal law applies instead.

And yes, I am sure we can take Caithness with us. After all, we depend on your KW postcode, and Gills Bay is quite handy.

I’m not sure they would seek to be part of GB just a new nation on its tod

Orkney was the seat of power in the north in ancient times when the concept of Scotland as a country lay centuries into the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mi16

I’m not sure they would seek to be part of GB just a new nation on its tod

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At the time of the first Scexit referendum, there was a suggestion flying round that if the Scexiteers won, then Orkney and Shetland would leave Scotland and rejoin the UK. Not sure if that was as the northernmost outpost of England or not though!