Tha answer to covid19

Ok so let me get this right! Boris & his clan are considering a lock down of all (vulnerable people) between the age of 50 - 70 should there be a threat of a second wave of the virus. Here’s the thing BoJo, who exactly are you shielding us from? Could it be the hundreds of young people gathering at illegal raves, having house parties, going to pubs where after a few pints of Stella social distancing goes right out the window. Teenagers basking in the sunshine in the centre of town drinking copious amounts of alcohol.
Parliament decided that a few years ago that I’m fit enough to work until I’m 66 before I can retire. Also I think you’ll find that the majority of people in their 50’s & 60’s have adhered to all the rules concerning the lockdown in the hope that the day would come sooner rather than later for them to be with their families again. So here’s a suggestion for you, how about a full lock down for all people under the age of 30 who believe they are immune to this virus. You might just get a result.

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Originally Posted by gaza

Ok so let me get this right! Boris & his clan are considering a lock down of all (vulnerable people) between the age of 50 - 70 should there be a threat of a second wave of the virus. Here’s the thing BoJo, who exactly are you shielding us from? Could it be the hundreds of young people gathering at illegal raves, having house parties, going to pubs where after a few pints of Stella social distancing goes right out the window. Teenagers basking in the sunshine in the centre of town drinking copious amounts of alcohol.
Parliament decided that a few years ago that I’m fit enough to work until I’m 66 before I can retire. Also I think you’ll find that the majority of people in their 50’s & 60’s have adhered to all the rules concerning the lockdown in the hope that the day would come sooner rather than later for them to be with their families again. So here’s a suggestion for you, how about a full lock down for all people under the age of 30 who believe they are immune to this virus. You might just get a result.

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Couldn't agree more!

They're looking for a silver billet to help with Covid ,well they never found a cure for stupidity so we're doomed . Have to agree with your suggestion. Many think youth and stupidity are different sides of the same coin, then I look at Trump and Boris which shoots that idea down. Stay safe.

Having passed up on the first opportunity to control Conoravirus, by having effective border controls, the best way now it's to tell anyone who wants to hide away for the rest of their miserable lives, to do so. And those who want to do risky things like breathe air, can do that to. A bit like smokers and non smokers really. Make people accountable for their own actions. So if you go out to the pub, and pick up a mild cough, on your own head be it. Meanwhile, if you want to lock yourself up for 6 months, feel free. Just don't expect the taxpayer to pay for your self inflicted holiday.

For anyone that thinks covid-19 just gives you a mild cough I suggest you watch https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-my-brother-me

50% deaths in the intensive care units

And for everyone who believes it is just the "old" codgers that die or have serious side-effects then this video may just wake you up to the potential long term damage that this virus can cause.

There is of course a very broad spectrum of effects. Ranging from the 85% of people who don't even realise they have / have had it, through to those with mild effects (can still work from home), more serious effects (can't work from home) to hospitalisation, intensive care and even death. everyone who gets it lands somewhere on that spectrum. even here in Orkney, where the official NHS Orkney case count is about 10, in a recent Orcadian newspaper, NHS Orkney themselves said that 1200 in Orkney could have had it. So fortunately, most folk land on the "I didn't even know I had it" end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, others land at the other end of the spectrum, and die from solely conoravirus / Convid 19. Based on the total number of UK cases, and the governments advice that just 4% died of solely conoravirus, this puts the number of real conoravrius deaths at less than 1900. A lot of deaths, I'll grant you. The other deaths were as a result of "co-mortalities" with stats suggesting that such victims had on average 2.7 life threatening conditions.

Concern seems to be mounting universally that 4% of people will die of Conoravirus, 96% will die of something other, but will test positive for conoravirus, but even more people will die of other avoidable conditions like cancer, that are being forgotten about due to Conoravirus mania.

It would be great to live in a country where there were no nasty conditions to either debilitate or kill people. Alas, thats nothing more than a dream. We just need to remember the existing 165,000 cancer deaths in the UK per year to bring Conoravirus back into perspective. That 165,000 people dying of a rather horrible and painful disease, before the increase we are likely to see over the next 10 years or so, by putting more importance on Conoravirus rather than cancer.

And even aside from things like cancer, people are suffering long term damage from other ailments - Perhaps portrayed by brave nurse Sette Buenaventura

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-53695708

Coronavirus: Nurse who ignored pain has leg amputated

Once again, in my view, you are missing the point. Those people did not die of their co-morbidities, they died because they contracted coronavirus. They would not have died if they had not been infected with Covid 19.
Over the age of around 65, the immune system naturally declines and people become more prone to infection and less resilient to fighting something off- that's the natural process of aging. Therefore I would perhaps be more likely to become seriously ill or die if I contracted this virus but it would not be my declining immune system that killed me and normally I'm fit as a flea. By the way, cancer is far more likely to afflict older people as well due to many complex factors including ones connected with aging. Thankfully, these days, many more folk are successfully treated for it and the 5 year survival rate is increasing. If you are badly affected by Covid 19, you may not even survive 5 weeks never mind 5 years.

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Originally Posted by Fulmar

Once again, in my view, you are missing the point. Those people did not die of their co-morbidities, they died because they contracted coronavirus. They would not have died if they had not been infected with Covid 19.

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I think using the hypothetical example that Matt Hancock used (person tested positive for Conoravirus in March, run over and killed by a bus in July) that the cause of death would most certainly have been Bus. Even though they would have been recorded as a Conoravirus death. I have not tried it personally (some probably wish I would.....), but I think death by bus is usually fairly conclusive, and I don't think the outcome will be drastically affected had you, or not as the case may be, been infected with Convid-19

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Originally Posted by orkneycadian

I think using the hypothetical example that Matt Hancock used (person tested positive for Conoravirus in March, run over and killed by a bus in July) that the cause of death would most certainly have been Bus. Even though they would have been recorded as a Conoravirus death. I have not tried it personally (some probably wish I would.....), but I think death by bus is usually fairly conclusive, and I don't think the outcome will be drastically affected had you, or not as the case may be, been infected with Convid-19

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Never heard of "The Butterfly Effect".... If it wasn't for the positive test in March his life would have drifted off onto a different path, a path on which he never encounters that bus.

Covid-19 - The BBC news website is reporting Orkney has concerning info for people living in the Orkney Islands https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...tland-53762033 - lets hope it is wrong.

Panic not, richardj, all 9 apparently only have mild symptoms. Just like the 182 in Aberdeen.

So if 191 out of 191 have mild symptoms, and don't even require medical attention, let alone hospitalisation, where are all the folk dying of it? According to the ONS, we are now apparently in the 7th consecutive week where the total number of deaths is below the 5 year average.

Orkneycadian why do you think I am panicking? It is just information, updated on the BBC news website today https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...tland-53762033 The fishing boat involved in the outbreak on Orkney brought it from Aberdeen area and also stopped at Scrabster.

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Originally Posted by orkneycadian

I think using the hypothetical example that Matt Hancock used (person tested positive for Conoravirus in March, run over and killed by a bus in July) that the cause of death would most certainly have been Bus. Even though they would have been recorded as a Conoravirus death. I have not tried it personally (some probably wish I would.....), but I think death by bus is usually fairly conclusive, and I don't think the outcome will be drastically affected had you, or not as the case may be, been infected with Convid-19

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As mentiond in the other thread, I see the excess deaths as a true measure of the effects of covid-19, both directly - that caused by the disease, and indirectly, e.g. persons not able to get cancer treatment. Anyhoo here's an article for you,

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a9513981.html

As an NHS doctor, I can tell you there's no cynical plot to distort coronavirus death certificates

These keyboard warriors love to tell the world that doctors sometimes write Covid-19 on certificates when there had not been a positive test – as if this is a revelation

Here here!

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Originally Posted by richardj

Orkneycadian why do you think I am panicking?

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You mentioned it was "concerning" and "hoped it was wrong"

As I read it, some key workers got a very mild case of flu, and did as the government says - Stay at home for a few days. They obviously had to go home, which is what they did.

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Originally Posted by Neil Howie

As mentioned in the other thread, I see the excess deaths as a true measure of the effects of covid-19, both directly - that caused by the disease, and indirectly, e.g. persons not able to get cancer treatment.

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https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ding31july2020

"In Week 31, the number of deaths registered was 1.0% below the five-year average (90 deaths fewer); this is the seventh consecutive week that deaths have been below the five-year average."

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Originally Posted by Neil Howie

As an NHS doctor, I can tell you there's no cynical plot to distort coronavirus death certificates

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53722711

Coronavirus: England death count review reduces UK toll by 5,000

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Originally Posted by Fulmar

Here here!

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Where, where?

Where, where?
Well, quite obviously on Orkney at present, not that it will be of any smatter of concern to you of course. I doubt that your fellow islanders (my cousin is one) are so happy about it though.

I was enquiring as to where "here, here" was.

Anyway, looks like its not a Conoravirus lockdown we need, but one for common or garden flu and pneumonia;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ovid-9wlzsdlh9

Flu and pneumonia killed five times more than Covid last month

I have been told from the Horse’s Mouths, (well you know from whom), there was no consistency in the criteria for reporting of Covid deaths, particularly in the beginning.
Perhaps NH could comment on that issue.
Then to Countries....China had 4,700 deaths.....Yup! In Hunan Province the Crematoriums were going 24 hours a day for weeks!
And there were hundreds of thousands of Urns were ordered.....And in China, 21 million cell/mobile phones were cancelled in Jan and Feb alone!

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Originally Posted by orkneycadian

I was enquiring as to where "here, here" was.

Anyway, looks like its not a Conoravirus lockdown we need, but one for common or garden flu and pneumonia;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ovid-9wlzsdlh9

Flu and pneumonia killed five times more than Covid last month

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There you go... proof positive that the lockdown did the job of reducing deaths.

Lockdown stopped 470k Covid-19 deaths in UK, say researchers

Alas, Alrock, there are a couple of inconvenient truths that get in the way.....

Peak "death with conoravirus" coincided with peak lockdown.

Influenza, as a virus, like conoravirus, is spread by similar means. But yet, lockdown did little to slow the cases of flu.

Pneumonia, as a bacterial infection is a touch different from the other 2, but infection vectors are broadly similar.

Neil's focus on excess deaths seems to omit to acknowledge that for the last 7 weeks, there is a death "shortfall", in that less people are dying of everything than on (5 year) average. That shortfall existed in January to March as well, prior to any lockdown.

Alas, another example of a loved one being recorded as dying of something other than what they actually did die of.

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...-19-death-toll

Neil's focus on excess deaths seems to omit to acknowledge that for the last 7 weeks, there is a death "shortfall", in that less people are dying of everything than on (5 year) average. That shortfall existed in January to March as well, prior to any lockdown.

No doubt there will be several fleets of buses along soon to run some of 'em over and therefore support your theory of everything.

No, apparently that anomaly has now been cleared up, and Matt Hancocks "conoravirus in March, bus in July" example has been negated. Apparently if you now want to be run over and killed by a bus, but would like conoravirus to be on your death certificate as the cause, you need to have the 2 events within 28 days of each other. Still not impossible, but a bit harder.

Seems that with this anomaly correction, 5,000 folk didn't die with conoravirus after all.....

Whatever the answer is, Wuhan seem to have it. This was last weekend, according to the BBC;

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cp...1228074922.jpg

We, meantime seem to be doing not so bad either....

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ing7august2020

"In Week 32, the number of deaths registered was 1.7% below the five-year average (157 deaths fewer); this is the eighth consecutive week that deaths have been below the five-year average."

Though we still seem to have a fixation for farcemasks, letting folk stay at home doing nothing for the majority of their pay, and cutting public services

Another picture from Wuhan this week.....

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cp...1228075071.jpg

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Originally Posted by orkneycadian

Whatever the answer is, Wuhan seem to have it. This was last weekend, according to the BBC;

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"The city hasn't reported any new cases since mid-May"

When we've gone 3 months without new cases you can have your pool party.

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Originally Posted by Alrock

"The city hasn't reported any new cases since mid-May"

When we've gone 3 months without new cases you can have your pool party.

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No cases, full stop, in this part of Orkney. Will have the pool party, minus the togs.

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Originally Posted by orkneycadian

No cases, full stop, in this part of Orkney. Will have the pool party, minus the togs.

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Remember to post the pics

Does anyone know......

Why it is that flu and pneumonia now accounts for 6 times the deaths than that of people who died with coronavirus, but yet, lockdown and farcemasks seem to be having no effect in bringing down the rate of flu deaths? Is it the case that the ordinary flu virus passes through the mesh of a farcemask, but the conoravirus is stopped?

Who knows what is good or bad.
I did see an example on TV of a person coughing with different face coverings. Scarf, Cloth mask, 3 ply, 4 ply masks and a N95 mask.
The N95 does a good job, but the others are only somewhat efficient in preventing widespread particles. The other issue is that it can enter the body rather easily thru the Eyes and Ears!

******Now the Woman in the United States.....had two N95 masks on, and crashed her car when she fainted! Ohhhhh Deary Me!

But, but, but..... We are told that farcemasks make absolutely no difference to airflow and blood O2 levels. Now we are hearing that they do? From a factor of safety perspective, 1 mask doesn't sound that far away from 2, and if 2 causes fainting, there's not much margin for error there.

The N95 masks are thick, very thick and are used in Op rooms at Hosps, etc. Difficult to breath with one, two......!
The 3 or 4 ply ones that we are advised to wear are generally described as ‘precautionary’.....‘Face Covering’ are........again...It depends who you speak to in what Country!
There seems to be no consistency in thoughts on protection.
I dunno...you tell me!

So this week, total deaths in England and Wales are back up above the 5 year average;

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ng14august2020

In Week 33, the number of deaths registered was 3.4% above the five-year average (307 deaths higher); this is the first time that deaths have been above the five-year average since the week ending 12 June (Week 24).

But apparently, Conoravirus is not to blame;

The rise in deaths in Week 33, compared with Week 32 and the five-year average, was not driven by the coronavirus (COVID-19), as deaths involving COVID-19 continued to decline; England and Wales experienced high temperatures during Week 33, which may explain the rise in overall deaths.

I also blame bus passes. Research has shown that of all the deaths in the UK this year, the majority have died with​ bus passes.