No, sorry Leanne, I have never heard of it! Is it worth a read?
C3......:)
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I seem to be good at puzzling people John, my apologies!!!!
Firstly, I love my country and being worldly wise I woudn't live anywhere else, its a brilliant place to live!
But as you say, it could be better by a long chalk and the list of things that could improve is far too long for on here but some of the things are governed by Parliament. I would like to see us run our own roads, keeping the road taxes in Scotland instead of going into the melting pot in London, our roads need improving. I think we need to bring back manufacturing and start exporting more than we do. Our tourism could be better, our towns need a makeover and updating, our trains and buses should be Nationalised and run by Holyrood. We need to get rid of this poor,fat, unhealthy, idle label that we have. I could go on all day John, as I said, I love Scotland and its people but I hope I will be so proud of our achievements in a few years time, this is our big chance, lets not waste it!!!
C3......:)
LOL! I agree with every word you say- but I apply it to the UK as a whole. You should see the roads down here - potholes or what! I agree on manufacturing, the buses and trains, tourism, infrastructure etc.
You don't have to believe in independence to support every single point you make!
I wouldnt go as far to say that nationalism is a naturally occuring feeling inherant in all human life but its not far off it. Anyone who harbours thoughts of an independant Scotland shouldnt have to explain in some profoundly philosophical way why they feel like that. They just do. Its a human thing. There doesnt have to be any sinister undertones to being a nationalist. History has taught us of the dangers of nationalism. There are just as many dangers in extreme Toryism or extreme Labourism so independance by way of national pride is an honourable ambition and shouldnt need to be explained in any other way other than declaring you want to live in an independant free and democratic Scotland.
If there's an undercurrent of mistrust as to the aims of independance perhaps John and Ducati will lay their worries on the table now or forever shut up about why and offer an opinion about why not.
I have no worries about it.
I have implied no sinister undertones.
I have no mistrust of the aims of independence. (I don't actually know what they are)
I observe that we are in a particular state and ask why you wish to change it.
That is all.
Because that's what nationalism implies. You cant have independance without changing things. Unless you want a deep and profound discussion about the roots of nationalism, which I suspect would end up back where I mentioned in my first post, isnt it enough to accept that some people desire change and you have to decide whether to support it or challenge it?
If I want change then I usually have reasons.
If people desire change then they should have it.
But I personally would rather understand with reasons I can apply a rationale to. Hence this thread.
If you are telling me that you want to break the union because you want to break the union then I will remain utterly bewildered but would not wish to stop it if that's what you want.
BTW. I dont want to change it but I understand those who do. I dont understand what yourself and ducati dont understand. perhaps you can help me by offering some questions other that why.
From where Im sitting it's not about breaking the union. Its about a nation seeking Independance.
I don't know how to say it better.
I do not understand why a substantial number of Scots wish to break up the United Kingdom. I just want someone to give me some reasons I can understand.
It is not essential that anyone do so and it should not stand in the way of vox populi.
I just want to know.
Probably. I don't get nationalism and certainly would not get nationalistic about England or go waving flags. I do not understand that in any way at all.
The dodgy act of union was brought about by a government acting for a member of a Scottish royal house who wished a more direct control over her dominions.
Since then the combination has built the largest empire the world has ever seen, sparked the Industrialisation of the entire world, given rise to achievements in Science, Medicine, civilisation and letters, fought two world wars and been a power which punches well above its weight on the world stage.
You tell me that the reason for breaking all that history up is national pride and I will look at you in utter incomprehension and leave you to it.
If that's the reason then so be it and good luck to youse all.
Having said all that I do think there may be people who use nationalism to fulfill a deeper and darker need. They usually stand out though.
I think I do understand that bit - we have them here too but I would not vote for them.
The big advantage of the SNP to me, and why I would vote for them if I lived in Scotland is that they are not peddling a version of neo-Conservatism - which all the others are doing. Unless Labour goes back to centre left policies they will not recover.
But if I voted for them it would not be for independence but their other policies. They put the welfare of the people first. They are not driven by the idea that a healthy economy and business must be bought at the cost of unemployment and misery.
Interesting: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ncial-autonomy though it could split any potential vote.
For what it's worth:
Absolutely Not. Keep the Union. 22 55.00%
Full independence from UK & EU. 13 32.50%
It's Brussel's we need to worry about, not Westminster. 3 7.50%
Where's my cheque for my share of the oil billions? 2 5.00%
40 votes so a 2% turnout of active orgers :eek:
Good and thoughtful link that. It minds me of the form of Federalism in place in the early days of the United States where any powers not specifically devolved to a Federal parliament went by default to the states.
That could work and could be attractive. There would have to be some form of mechanism to give powers to a central government in time of crisis eg war. And I do not think that a Federal government could be in London.
England would need its own parliament.
I know what it is about the world 'independence' that makes me uneasy. It implies that Scotland is a colony and you ain't. Never were. You would be no more 'independent' than England. Self determination and autonomy is what this is about. A mature, equal and federal solution.
That I get.