Could you put a positive spin on this article from the IFS that the SNP accept...…...Overall, the GERS figures continue to paint a fascinating picture of Scotland’s public finances. They are, of course, estimates and can be subject to revision as updated data becomes available. But they are credible and as wehighlighted recently, it’s therefore welcome that the SNP’s Growth Commission used them as the basis of its fiscal plans.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/13287
I'm also at as loss to see what you find 'disrespectful'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodfellers
Here's an interesting quote from that article:- I have put some of it in bold just to emphasise the point I have been making.
Under current fiscal arrangements, it is the UK government and UK taxpayers that have responsibility for dealing with the vast majority of these higher borrowing levels. However, the Scottish Government can borrow a relatively small amount to invest or smooth its revenues and spending. The £450 million the Scottish government borrowed to invest in 2017-18 explains around 4.5% of the ‘fiscal gap’ of £10.3 billion.
Here are some more interesting quotes.
In broad-terms, relative to the size of its economy, Scotland has a much bigger deficit than the UK as a whole, and this looks set to continue. This reflects relatively high levels of government spending and relatively low levels of onshore tax revenues. Weak economic growth in the last few years seems to have depressed revenue growth, despite increases in devolved income taxes.
This year’s figures continue to paint a relatively weak fiscal picture that is likely to persist unless there is a strong rebound in oil revenues or a substantial increase in Scottish economic growth. Relying on the former would be a particular gamble,
On the other hand, more is raised per person from alcohol, tobacco and fuel duties, business rates and non-tax revenues than in the UK as a whole...
How does an independant Scotland propose to continue spending more than it raises? Especially as there are relatively few higher tax payers. My opinion is there will be even less higher rate payers if Scotland were to go independant.
I'm fortunate enough to own a holiday home in England, If independance were to happen, my English address would become my permanent address and my Caithness home would become a holiday home, so I wont get caught out by the financial crisis that I believe will hit Scotland, unless of course they decide to impose punitive taxes on holiday homes, then I'll have to reconsider.
I think we are going to have to continue to disagree on Scotlands future prospects..
The fundamental point is that Scotland is NOT allowed to run a deficit. You said it was and went to great lengths to tell us how bad it is. You were wrong about the vote on tuition fees in England and you are wrong about this too. The simple fact is that the article you invited everyone to read to prove your point actually proves mine. The Westminster government does not allow the Scottish Government to run a deficit. Any deficit that is assigned to Scotland is as a result of Westminster saying this is what we think your share is. To run a deficit any economy must have borrowing powers. Westminster has prevented the Scottish Government from having borrowing powers (apart from a tiny percentage to invest or smooth its revenues and spending).
I'm afraid I cannot take your other points seriously. You have already shown that you are pepared to say anything, however unsubstantiated, to make cheap political points designed to scare people.
If you really want to know how much the Westminster government has shafted Scotland over the years then I suggest you have a look at the McCrone Report from 1974. Here is a little quote from it where the document gave a highly favourable projection for the economy of an independent Scotland with a;
"chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe"
Funny how successive governments suppressed this report. I mean, why would Westminster not want the Scots to know that leaving the UK would make them massively more wealthy? Beats the hell out of me ....... oh no! .. wait!
I don't think a report from 1974 carries much weight now, the world has changed a lot since then. I'm still interested in how an independant Scotland would raise more than it spends (or would spend).
Do you agree, on paper at least, an independant Scotland WOULD run at a deficit, as things stand at the moment? (to be honest, I thought we were having a hypothetical discussion about an independant Scotland, so you going on about Scotland not running up a deficit and basically calling me a liar is odd).
Oh, I see. It's OK for you to go back to 1964 to make your points but my reference to a 1974 report is dismissed out of hand. Yet, another example of your double standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodfellers
On the second point here is what the Financial Times had to say about the prospects for the economy in an independent Scotland. I've taken the liberty of emboldening the really good bit in the quote just in case you miss it.
"An independent Scotland could expect to start with healthier state finances than the rest of the UK." Scotland subsidises the UK by billions of pounds every year, and has done for many decades. On the rare occasions when it’s forced by Parliamentary rules to tell the truth, the UK government admits that fact plainly."
A real economic basket case aren't we?
You are quoting from a Feb 2014 article when the price of oil was sky high.....even then the population didn't believe the SNP forcast of milk and honey. Now oil prices are a fraction of what they were then, I'll ask again, how will Scotland survive spending far more than she earns?
Where is your evidence, and I mean real evidence not the product of your fevered imagination or that of some intern from Conservative Central Office, that Scotland spends more than she earns?
And while we are at it. If Scotland's economy is as weak as you say then that is hardly a glowing endorsement of your precious Union, is it? After all, Westminster has been running the UK economy since 1707 and yet Scotland is, according to you, an economic liability. Where is all your "better together" guff now? Westminster government has been a disaster for Scotland with most of the wealth heading to the SE of England.
And why is it that Scotland, unique amongst all the small nations of the world, is incapable of running its own affairs in your view? We have an abundance of natural resources; a highly skilled and trained workforce and world class universities. We are far better placed to run our own affairs than probably every other country of comparible size on the planet.
Yet still you seek to denigrate the people of Scotland by claiming we are too wee, too poor and too stupid to be independent. Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Denmark, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Ireland, Iceland, New Zealand, Cyprus, Malta, Norway (I could go on, and on) don't have the natural resources and advantages Scotland has yet somehow they survive. I have faith in the abilities of the people who live in Scotland. I know we can make a success of independence. The fact that you don't speaks volumes as to how you view the people who live here. We have had enough of being denigrated and put down.
Hi Goodfellers.
Some interesting figures from HM Revenue & Customs for you to chew over. Just look how well Scotland is doing with its balance of trade especially when you compare it to England.
If only Scotland was capable of paying its own way. Maybe one day it could even be independent if it wasn't too wee, too poor and too stupid.
So it seems that the biggest drain on the UK economy is England and that the Finacial Times was correct in stating that Scotland subsidises the UK to the tune of billions of pounds each year.
Attachment 34941
Oh dear me, Almost sounds like a Mel Gibson speech.
I did point out your Financial Times post was six years out of date and written when oil prices were sky high. That is no longer the case and unlikely to ever be the case, so the article is irrelevant. But don't let that stop you believing it!
I provided you with a link to the IFS (Caithness.Org use the IFS figures all the time, so therefore a very trustworth source, not some Conservative intern!)
I will also provide a link from Fullfact a completely independant fact checking organisation with NO political affiliation https://fullfact.org/economy/tax-and-spending-scotland/
It's good to see you posting about a healthy trade surplus. Scotland still runs at a technical deficit of billions each year despite this
Your problem appears to be that you will not accept facts, but rely on the hype churned out by the SNP.
Next you will be posting about Nicolas Health Protection Bill. Did you know that Trump is going to insist we repaint all the white lines on our roads yellow? The SNP will introduce a bill to stop that when you point it out to them. It's a Bill to instil fear in the minds of the gullible. I've pointed it out to you that it wont happen.
This is a link to Nicola speaking some sense (you should really read it). Unlike you, she accepts that a majority of MP's will not be enough to trigger Indy2, sorry to disappoint you on a lovely Friday https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-50013582
The relevant part, to save you reading the whole articleShe also pointed out that the SNP has previously won a majority of the Scottish seats in a general election on a minority of the votes - and argued that "nobody in Europe would listen to me in terms of the legitimacy of that" if she was to claim it was a mandate for independence.
I think that's covered everything, apart from you explaining how an independant Scotland would fund the £15 billion deficit each year, but don't worry I'm sure you have better things to do today. On that note I'm fed up having to repeat facts that you ignore, so I'm NOT going to respond to anymore posts on this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodfellers
Or, to interpret the above - "I spent of all last night trying to find some credible evidence to support my ludicrous claims but couldn't find any so I'm just going to insult you then run away and hide". Sounds pretty much like every Tory manifesto to me.