Yougov has it with the remains by 7%
was inaccurate in the general election though but fingers crossed.
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Yougov has it with the remains by 7%
was inaccurate in the general election though but fingers crossed.
and the polls get it wrong again.
We are offski, let the battle commence.
For what its worth it will be a battle, internal tory fighting wont go away, what direction will a tory government travel ( move further to the right ? ) This referendum was called to unite the tories or flush out anti EU tories nowt to do with us all. Too much has been said, can see a split there, scotlands position for indy 2 now 100% on table, we dont know how markets are going to react medium term and we dont know what out will turn out as we are into the unknown. One things for sure out is out and 1 obvious fact, the immigration issue was a key with working class areas showing the gap between the ivory towers politicians and the reality ordinary people see and live with, obviously they see thing differently and voted accordingly....If BJ becomes PM his cabinet will logically be outers and theyre mostly right wing tories, so welcome to our new reality !Quote:
Originally Posted by mi16
You could argue that people didnt like being bullied by big business who almost unanimously staged an out = disaster campaign backing up govtQuote:
Originally Posted by rob murray
I think there are interesting times ahead for the UK, Scotland and Northern Ireland in particular, the SNP have been playing brag with what they will do if an out Brexit occurs and now their bluff has been well and truly called and have no alternative than to put the money where their mouth is and call a Scottish referendum. For me the Scotts should follow her recommendations regarding her Brexit threats and vote as they did for EU status, after all independence will be required to apply for EU membership as she Sturgeon promised, taking onboard the Euro and all the necessary steps dictated to qualify as a new member.
Northern Ireland have the same choice as they too resoundingly voted for EU status as well, although it will be easier for them as they will be joining the southern Ireland EU status.
The UK is going to be quite a changed affair if all the plans go through and not for the best in my opinion.
Now that Cameron has resigned and going in October, does that trigger a General Election, or do the Conservatives just vote a new leader, and he or she will take over ?
We will have an unelected PM, same as Gordon Brown or John Major were, its quite early in the term for this though.
I would prefer to see a general election called at this point.
Will Westminster allow another Scottish referendum?
We voted as a Nation a short while back to remain part of the UK, and we voted yesterday as the UK on EU membership.
Its democracy.
Personally I was a remain for both the Scottish and EU votes.
But with the EU vote not going the way I wanted, my point of view on Scottish independence remains the same.
EU playing hard ball : the leader of the biggest group in the European Parliament Manfred Weber has called for leave negotiations to start immediately.
Under EU law, a country that wants to leave the bloc has two years for negotiations on the terms of the divorce, but only starting from the moment it formally notifies the EU of its intention to exit. Some British officials who campaigned to leave the EU have suggested that London could delay such notification, to make time for informal talks on the best possible exit deal.
David Cameron, said Britain would probably make such a notification only in October, once a new leader of the Tory party is chosen to succeed him. But Weber said the EU should not be held back by internal party politics in Britain.
"We need to avoid a long period of uncertainty and the European continent cannot be occupied by an internal Tory battle about who will be the next leader of the Tory party and the prime minister of Great Britain," Weber said.
"I expect from the British government from the current government in office, I expect from them to do immediately the necessary steps especially next week when there is a Council meeting. We want to immediately start with negotiations ... leave means leave," Weber said. What makes me think that the EU is going to make life very difficult for the UK, self preservation after all they need to frighten off other countries with strongish anti EU feelings
It seems that Weber wants to torture us for withdrawing our billions, so has the EU been a partnership, or a protection racket? If the latter, why would we want to be in a club with them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mi16
Thanks for that, I just wasn't sure, I had actually forgotten Brown and Major were not elected. So, Boris Johnson for Prime Minister then !! Can you imagine !
Can you not see that the EU is pulling up the draw bridge,a self preservation strategy as other EU states have anti EU factions, and need to be put in their place to prevent a domino effect. On other matter, its now public and in the news that claims made by leave are being withdrawn right now left right and centre ie the blatant lies on NHS receiving wads of cash we pay to EU for starters. Actual hard facts proven are as predicted : 1 short term market volatility which remain claimed would happen, happening before our eyes 2 Scotland / indy 2 claims 3 The EU demanding and have the powers to insist on article 50 now, out is out, no waiting around for Tories to sort out their old etonian disputes 4 Accepted claims that it will take at least 4 years to get some kind of agreements together ( 2 years was never ever on given complexities o ) and up to 10 years to disentangle legals issues,5 Camerons EU deal is now null and void so anything he got from EU is dead and we have to live with EU until we are finally out, this all adds up to uncertainty. Still we are out, but the lies told will haunt us. Oh life goes on but not as we know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggie
Does anyone else recognise that leaves absence of any strong thought out details on the specifics of withdrawal and what out would look, like kinda suggests that they didn't expect to win. Its a bit like challenging the big school bully to fight never expecting that he would take you up on the offer, well they ve won lets see the fighting !
Regarding must implement article 50 http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...)577971_EN.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by rob murray
From yuur article : "The formal withdrawal process is initiated by a notification from the Member Statewishing to withdraw to the European Council, declaring its intention to do so. Thetiming of this notification is entirely in the hand of the Member State concerned, andinformal discussions could take place between it and other Member States and/orEU institutions prior to the notification." I would take this to mean that the UK initiates the withdrawal process, however all news stories from EU indicate that they are driving the agenda, so Im confused, I still feel EU will play awkward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonkatojo
I think confusion is the object of the exercise it gives them time to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by rob murray
Is that cos leave were basically winging it and had no thought out withdrawal strategy, so need time to think things through, did they even think that they would win ? Why on earth should anyone trust leave politicians ie the new PM / chancellor etc when on day 1 leavers are ahem ahem "adjusting" claims made ...the dosh for NHS splattered everywhere on their buses etc...now back peddling very fast. Johnson and co are proven deceitful liars. As for labour...........coup now, get rid of the 7 /10 clown now.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonkatojo
here a good read : seems like out may not turn out. as "out" after all : http://www.centreonconstitutionalcha...t-happens-next
There were strategies: Gove described his vision, and there is the detailed "FLexCit" plan. However both sides in this national punch-up have been loose groupings just heading for their chosen result. Publishing one plan would have caused a walk-out by a good many keen, possibly brainless, volunteers. Imagine saying "we will do a trade deal with the United States by signing TTIP at once" - all the Kippers would have gone home. Now they've got what they wanted, Gove, Fox and Boris can tell the Kippers to get lost, and then do the deals they wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by rob murray
The whole thing is a gory mess and we are looking disaster in the face. However, when we work out who is in charge, the opportunities are enormous to break out of the Eurobubble into the rest of the world. At least we can trust the Whitehall Civil Service to foul everything up.
Totally agree and all because of tory splits on EU !! And which "internationalists" think leaving is a good thing Ms Le Pen, Mr Trump and Vladimir PutinQuote:
Originally Posted by Hoggie
11 of the last 25 PM's were not through GE'sQuote:
Originally Posted by cptdodger