Drink Driving zero limit?

[ducati]

The sort of responsible topic we should discuss, please don't name any names!

Topical, it is being proposed as part of a raft of messures to stop us (Scots) getting pished all the time.

I had a salutary lesson some 30 years ago when I was involved (caused) a serious motorcycle accident following quite a session which left me with an injury I still suffer from today. (luckily no one else was involved) Anyway I never drink and drive, haven't since.

So is it a good idea? I think so as it is a law you can break without knowing. You can have a pint or two one day and be fine then have one the next day and be over the limit or you can be over the limit if you drive the day following having a drink.

I thought about a pole but that won't tell us much so lets get a few comments.

[Invisible]

The sort of responsible topic we should discuss, please don't name any names!

Topical, it is being proposed as part of a raft of messures to stop us (Scots) getting pished all the time.

I had a salutary lesson some 30 years ago when I was involved (caused) a serious motorcycle accident following quite a session which left me with an injury I still suffer from today. (luckily no one else was involved) Anyway I never drink and drive, haven't since.

So is it a good idea? I think so as it is a law you can break without knowing. You can have a pint or two one day and be fine then have one the next day and be over the limit or you can be over the limit if you drive the day following having a drink.

I thought about a pole but that won't tell us much so lets get a few comments.

what's the pole's name?

Aye I think there should be a clear limit, can't get much clearer than 0.

[Billy Boy]

I for one,Would like to see zero limit.Leaves no one in any doubt of what they can and cannot take. Simples

[annemarie482]

i thought they couldn't do zero limit as some medication contains alcohol?:confused

[Boozeburglar]

The difference is only that people will drive/ride the day after and think they are clear when they are not, as zero tolerance means even the tiny remnants will keep them over the limit.

Lowering the tolerated level to 25 or something makes more sense, and then people will know they cannot drive after drinking heavily the night before nor after a drink over lunch.

However, the people who have 26mg per 100ml at 8am, or have a half pint with lunch are not necessarily the type of people who pose a problem.

Like most legislation, it will penalise the majority of responsible people.

If it saves lives, I can accept that.

[Boozeburglar]

I see enormous problems with a real zero limit.

Like most laws, it may not be as it says on the tin.

I am sure there will be an allowable amount.

How easy to spike someone's drink/food if there is so little needed they won't even taste or smell it.

[David Banks]

i thought they couldn't do zero limit as some medication contains alcohol?:confused

. . . and some mouthwashes leave alcohol on the breath, even if used as intended !
Reduce limits - OK. A real zero limit would be impractical.

[teenybash]

Perhaps by the time the proposed zero limit is discussed and mulled over, the men and women of parliament might realise zero is impossible to achieve.......if medications and mouthwash contain enough alcohol to give a positive reading on a breathalizer....we live and learn. But I am all for zero tolerance, if that is possible.

[celtic1888]

i personally think the limit should be zero, no drink at all if you are driving.
Alcohol can affect people in different ways, a pint for one person may not have any effect on them, however a pint for another person can put a beer head on them if they dont drink much.
We could also get into the shpeel about eating a lot then having an pint and driving or not eating anything and having a pint then driving etc.. but im sure no one can be bothered with that right? :D

[Bookworm]

Personally I'd like to see a promotion of designated drivers, i.e. someone that has elected not to drink that is responsible for getting their friends home in taxis or driving them.
Normally a designated driver gets free drinks of soda / water as an incentive.
This always worked with me and my friends but most places don't want to give freebees.

[Invisible]

Personally I'd like to see a promotion of designated drivers, i.e. someone that has elected not to drink that is responsible for getting their friends home in taxis or driving them.
Normally a designated driver gets free drinks of soda / water as an incentive.
This always worked with me and my friends but most places don't want to give freebees.

you mean like a t-shirt or something? hmmmm that's a good idea ill try selling it to the Dragons........................no they are out......but ill invest

[pat]

the body naturally produces a slight amount of alcohol so 0mg would be impossible - an extremely low percentage 5 to 10mg would be more practical

There will always be the folk who drive over their limit - just need to look at the Scandinavian countries where the limits are very low, but they are hard on the drink drivers.

Drink drivers vehicles should be taken and disposed of each and every time they are caught.

A person who drinks and drives should be charged with murder if death occurs due to them being involved in any accident - they had no need to drink and drink, they know the consequences.

[Leanne]

I'm a lightweight so don't...

[Kirdon]

Zero is not the way to go in my opinion. I for one like a pint or a glass of wine when I go out for a meal etc. The people who need to be caught are not caring what the level is they are going to do it anyway.

[smee]

I think that a zero amount in Parlaiment as a trial would be a good starting point as we are paying for the drink that they have when discussing magor issues.... sorry for the spelling but am haveing one myself hic.

[bekisman]

Ours is quite high:

The Blood Alcohol Levels


0.0 mg per ml– Estonia, Malta, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary
0.2 mg per ml– Norway, Poland, Sweden
0.4 mg per ml- Lithuania
0.5 mg per ml- Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Germany (Germany is 0.3 if you’re in an accident), Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Serbia/Montenegro, Croatia, Latvia, Macedonia, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, Cyprus (North)
0.8 mg per ml– UK, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Switzerland
0.9 mg per mlCyprus (South)

[Whitewater]

I'm all for a lower limit, but zero I'm not sure about. Have to agree with Pat, I can recall reading an article a few years ago regarding the limit in Norway and Sweden, they initially thought about zero, but there were several medical reasons which prevented them doing so, I can't remember what they were, but the lowest they could safely go was 0.2mg, which is what they enforce at the moment.

I had a sister killed by a drunk driver on the bridge in Muir of Ord 35 years ago. The really sad thing about it was, the driver of the car which ran into her was actually assisted from the pub by his mates, and placed in his car so as he could drive home, because of their stupidity and the drivers my sister never made home.

Many people will be against lowering the limit, and probably will never learn until somebody in their family is killed by a drunk driver.

[smee]

'Many people will be against lowering the limit, and probably will never learn until somebody in their family is killed by a drunk driver.'

Very valid point and as we see today in the judicial system a man who goes naked and get 21 months and told that he could spend the rest of his life in prison if he don't get his kegs on..... makes you wonder!

[3of8]

Ours is quite high:

The Blood Alcohol Levels


0.0 mg per ml– Estonia, Malta, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary
0.2 mg per ml– Norway, Poland, Sweden
0.4 mg per ml- Lithuania
0.5 mg per ml- Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Germany (Germany is 0.3 if you’re in an accident), Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Serbia/Montenegro, Croatia, Latvia, Macedonia, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, Cyprus (North)
0.8 mg per ml– UK, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Switzerland
0.9 mg per mlCyprus (South)

Ours is quite high. But having a lower limit doesn't mean less fatalities or injuries.

In this country, 19% of drivers had higher than that amount when involved in crashes. But France had 28.6% of fatally injured drivers with alcohol above 0.5 mg/ml, Finland had 24% on the same amount. Sweden had 28% fatalities on 0.2mg/ml.

So the limit isn't unreasonable. The penalties for breaking it are though. There should be mandatory harsh penalties for going over the limit, especially killing or injuring others. Cobblers to this 'hardship' ruling that some declare meaning they can literally get away with it (I'm sorry m'lud, but if I lose my licence I lose my house, family etc, etc.). Slap them down and make them live to regret it!

Incidentally, the rate for fatally injured drivers is not as high as that of fatally injured pedestrians - in the UK 38% of pedestrians had more than 0,8mg/ml blood alcohol level. I wonder how many were killed by a driver over the limit?

[Turquoise]

I for one like a pint or a glass of wine when I go out.

I too like a pint of wine when I'm out ;)

I would have no problem with zero alcohol limit. The amount of people who sit and say "Oh, I would never drink-drive, that's awful!" and then proceed to work the morning after boozing, with a (literally) stinking hangover, never ceases to amaze me :roll:

[celtic1888]

Zero is not the way to go in my opinion. I for one like a pint or a glass of wine when I go out for a meal etc. The people who need to be caught are not caring what the level is they are going to do it anyway.


Thing is, you might be over the limit if you have a pint, how are you to know if your under the limit or not?!
As said before, alcohol affects different people in different ways ..
Heres a good bit of evidence ..

Leanne
I'm a lightweight so don't...

[joxville]

I'm a lightweight too, I rarely drink so one pint would probably put me over the limit. I've been the (volunteer) designated driver on our last few works outings, it doesn't bother me not having a drink. The pic below is from Christmas '09, someone thought it would be hilarious to make me think I'd passed a speed camera too fast. They weren't laughing when I slammed on the brakes because the flash was so bright I couldn't see ahead.

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5816/workdo09.png

[S&LHEN]

I agree it should be zero as what ive found is with one glass of red wine I feel totally drunk but on a half pint/pint I feel normal. Im sure there must be alot of people like this but you have the law saying its ok to drive with these amounts, So your legal to have a drink and drive with one even although certain drinks can affect your ability, I think this is wrong :confused

[cuddlepop]

There has to be some give in this zero limit as some people naturally have an alcohol reading in their blood.:confused

I'm a light weight too and find it difficult to understand the mentality of some people when they try to drive after a bucket full.:mad:

[ducati]

I'm all for a lower limit, but zero I'm not sure about. Have to agree with Pat, I can recall reading an article a few years ago regarding the limit in Norway and Sweden, they initially thought about zero, but there were several medical reasons which prevented them doing so, I can't remember what they were, but the lowest they could safely go was 0.2mg, which is what they enforce at the moment.

I had a sister killed by a drunk driver on the bridge in Muir of Ord 35 years ago. The really sad thing about it was, the driver of the car which ran into her was actually assisted from the pub by his mates, and placed in his car so as he could drive home, because of their stupidity and the drivers my sister never made home.

Many people will be against lowering the limit, and probably will never learn until somebody in their family is killed by a drunk driver.

I am appalled at the tragic loss of your sister. I hope your post reminds people not to trivialise a very serious issue.

We had a different culture 35 years ago. Drink driving was the norm. Might even have been pre-breathalyser (I am sure someone will correct that if wrong).

I thank (insert deity of choice) that I didn’t cause anyone’s death, because I could have done.

These days I think, the vast majority are sensible but there are a minority who just don't get it.

I guess the 0.2 mg limit is effectively zero as you will be over that if you consume any (additional) alcohol at all.

[oldchemist]

You cannot have a zero limit because it is not possible to measure zero. Every measurement has a plus or minus uncertainty so the limit must be a positive number.

[Invisible]

You cannot have a zero limit because it is not possible to measure zero. Every measurement has a plus or minus uncertainty so the limit must be a positive number.

hmmm.........0.1?

[bish667]

Instead of having a zero limit why dont they just have much harsher penalties for drink driving.

Fair enough people do get banned from driving for at least 12 months as standard but drink driving is easily avoidable so if you want to take a chance they should be banned for 5-10 years for being irresponsible.