View Full Version : On our very own doorstep..PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT!!!
Please forgive this post but I found it so disturbing that I had to let you all know about this.
I stumbled upon this story, very disturbing so be prepared to be shocked but very much in keeping with various stories I have come across through research into government activities. This is on our very own doorstep.
http://blip.tv/file/3178935
Kevin Milkins
08-Feb-10, 18:06
I watched the first couple of minutes of that bloke drooling on and I was beginning to loose the will to live, so I switched off.
If anyone wants to tell me in not more than two sentences what it was about, then I ain't interested.:confused
Turquoise
08-Feb-10, 18:14
It's about a girl with Down's syndrome who was abused by her father and various high ranking members of society over a 14 year period. They have been threatened and silenced, in order to stop the story coming out, as have BBC Scotland and all other Scottish media. The mum was stuck into Cornhill and was said to be schizophrenic, so that her story would not be credible in court.
If this is true and is investigated properly, this will be one of the most shocking cases ever heard.
More details here (http://stolenkids-hollie.blogspot.com/2009/07/shocking-story-of-hollie-greig.html)
Having watched it all I must say if this is even remotely true then it is quite honestly unbelievable it is like listening to something from the realms of a horror story.
I have to say though I found it odd that he threw so many names around of the alleged abusers that by his own admissions have never been questioned by the police let alone charged with an offense, surely that would compromise and case.
I also found the part about the uncle catching the father in the act of abusing his daughter and saying dont you ever touch her again and leaving and saying nothing to anyone before being found some time later dead in a burning car a bit odd.
I know I for one would not act in that way just say don't touch her again and say nothing, that bit was the strangest to me.
As I say though that was just mind blowing to watch and if true then it needs immediate attention.
I watched the first couple of minutes of that bloke drooling on and I was beginning to loose the will to live, so I switched off.
If anyone wants to tell me in not more than two sentences what it was about, then I ain't interested.:confused
...well that speaks volumes...you can't be bothered about the plight of a young girl and her mother..or that our country is controlled by criminals and sexual preditors able to control the media by threats? what would interest you? football? Eastenders? Coronation street?
Boozeburglar
08-Feb-10, 19:04
...well that speaks volumes...you can't be bothered about the plight of a young girl and her mother..or that our country is controlled by criminals and sexual preditors able to control the media by threats? what would interest you? football? Eastenders? Coronation street?
...he only said he could not discern the content after two minutes.
Frankly, I am on record here for my views on the subject matter, but if this video is throwing around names it may not only be detrimental to any future case, and meanwhile it is almost certainly slander, not that they will act on that if they are guilty!
achingale
08-Feb-10, 19:13
I read the link from Gronnuck instead of watching the piece. No words can possibly cover this. Horrified, upset, cruel and dangerous are just some I can think of. It was very harrowing to learn about this but thank you for bringing it to our attention clash67.
Sadly it isnt the first and wont be the last time people in "authority" abuse their position :( Disgusting to think that this can happen and more disgusting to think that people would try to protect the scumbags who did it x
14 minutes in an i'm looking for some content..whats is this about??
seem to be about a guy talking and stuff??paedophiles and such...disturbing stuff,but when does he get to the point??
you need to watch the 40 odd minutes to get the whole story.
you need to watch the 40 odd minutes to get the whole story.
True but harroing for this,,sad
Kevin Milkins
08-Feb-10, 20:02
...well that speaks volumes...you can't be bothered about the plight of a young girl and her mother..or that our country is controlled by criminals and sexual preditors able to control the media by threats? what would interest you? football? Eastenders? Coronation street?
Sounds like I have stuck my foot in it again.:eek:
I never got as far as young girls or her mother before the guy was grinding my gears and I had to switch him off. perhaps I was a little bit impatient with it.:confused
Boozeburglar
08-Feb-10, 20:05
I don't think you were hasty, I think the OP could have given a synopsis but perhaps they were too upset to think of it.
Sounds like I have stuck my foot in it again.:eek:
I never got as far as young girls or her mother before the guy was grinding my gears and I had to switch him off. perhaps I was a little bit impatient with it.:confused
No Kevin sounds more like I replied too soon after viewing the video and I was a wee bit sarcastic without good reason ..sorry.
Aaldtimer
08-Feb-10, 20:10
Frankly, I am on record here for my views on the subject matter, but throwing around names like this is not only detrimental to any possible case, it is almost certainly slander.
That's possibly exactly the reason he's naming names, challenging them do do something about it!:confused
I watched the whole thing earlier this afternoon and was stunned that such a thing could happen in this country...or anywhere for that matter.[disgust]
Boozeburglar
08-Feb-10, 20:11
No Kevin sounds more like I posted straight after viewing the video and over reacted..sorry.
Nice reply, I understand that. I have not watched it but I can imagine how upsetting it would be.
:)
Kevin Milkins
08-Feb-10, 20:14
No Kevin sounds more like I replied too soon after viewing the video and I was a wee bit sarcastic without good reason ..sorry.
No apology required, perhaps it was hasty of me to post what I said with no idea what the post may have been about, and if it is an emotive subject to some, then I apologise.
Boozeburglar
08-Feb-10, 20:15
That's possibly exactly the reason he's naming names, challenging them do do something about it!:confused
I watched the whole thing earlier this afternoon and was stunned that such a thing could happen in this country...or anywhere for that matter.[disgust]
Unfortunately that is not the way the Law works. You cannot hope to get someone into court and get them convicted that way, all you might do is prevent them being tried, and leave yourself more open to charges.
It really is a Catch 22.
Aaldtimer
08-Feb-10, 20:32
Unfortunately that is not the way the Law works. You cannot hope to get someone into court and get them convicted that way, all you might do is prevent them being tried, and leave yourself more open to charges.
It really is a Catch 22.
Well, it worked for Bosie's dad when challenged by Oscar Wilde!
The Law may be different in Scotland of course.:confused
I can't watch the clip I don't have sound but I read Robert Greens Blog.
I don't see how this would possibly be ignored by the media and I don't believe the media would or could be silenced on such a subject. If they found any credibilty in it they would be hounding the named officials and braying for blood.
So there is more to this than we know.
Who is Robert Green the Investigator? I can only find a footballer of that name.
Anyone got any more info?
Turquoise
08-Feb-10, 20:37
Think he's noted as a legal rep/adviser, if that's any help?
...and to further add to the web of corruption...
http://www.tpuc.org/node/34
"While British Prime Minister Tony Blair is under criminal suspicion in the "honours-for-cash" scandal that has rocked his Labour government, we have been told that there is an even more explosive scandal that Blair, up to now, has managed to hide behind the draconian British policy of issuing "D-Notices," government orders that prohibit the British media from reporting on certain "national security" cases.
In 1999, an international investigation of child pornographers and paedophiles run by Britain's National Criminal Intelligence Service, code named Operation Ore, resulted in 7,250 suspects being identified in the United Kingdom alone. Some 1850 people were criminally charged in the case and there were 1451 convictions. Almost 500 people were interviewed "under caution" by police, meaning they were suspects. Some 900 individuals remain under investigation. In early 2003, British police began to close in on some top suspects in the Operation Ore investigation, including senior members of Blair's government. "
..But check out the link it has more to it.
I personally haven't been researching these disgusting pedo. rings but through the research I have been doing these groups of sick people keep cropping up, they seem to be everywhere.
Boozeburglar
08-Feb-10, 20:55
OMG
Please don't use a thread about a possible tragic case to just pile onto the .org a load of unsubstantiated conspiracy crap.
See it works both ways.
The 'authorities' can silence people and prevent cases going to court, they are very powerful.
Equally all sorts of accusations can be hurled at the establishment, and the excuse for doing so with no evidence is that 'they' are 'covering it up'.
Senior members of Blair's Government?
I am sure they will not be slow to address the accusations when they start coming from a reliable source.
northener
08-Feb-10, 23:49
.......but very much in keeping with various stories I have come across through research into government activities.....
What research and what subjects?
On our very own doorstep..PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT!!!
Please forgive this post but I found it so disturbing that I had to let you all know about this.
I stumbled upon this story, very disturbing so be prepared to be shocked but very much in keeping with various stories I have come across through research into government activities. This is on our very own doorstep.
http://blip.tv/file/3178935
When it comes to child abuse/peadophilia the whole world is our doorstep. No matter where it happens, these sick people must not be allowed to go free, regardless of their standing in society. [disgust]
I just find this unpalatable, but also unbelievable. Can it really be true? If it is then where are our vulnerable safe? And why haven't the newspapers jumped on it like a ton of bricks? Exposing it would hardly be a case of endangering the national security, which seems to be the only reason the press can be gagged.
northener
09-Feb-10, 13:53
There's something about this that isn't right. But I can't put my finger on it.
Watched the video all the way through. Very disturbing.
zarapopet
09-Feb-10, 19:21
[evil] i watch the whole story and am appaulled how the reporters have been shut up . what about the paperatcy they could hound all of these sick individuals untill the truth be known.must be a conspiricy going on here. there are 100s of us wanting justice for the horrific things done to us mentally physically and sexually but its allways come up with not enough evidence as ive said time and time again our kids will never ever be 100%safe.we will never get all of these sick individuals put away so our streets are safe. i comend holly for coming out and telling what happened to her especially with her physical disabilitys. it is a hurendeous thing to relive especially to so many different people as your are always being judged i spent 30 hours over 2days telling army officials everything what happened to me it was done on a video and also loads of tapes it was a hurendeous experiance but needed to be done.
surely we need to support other victims when they come forward as you are never told how hurendeous these cases can be dragging up the past especially when you fight for years and get no justice.we need this justice to get closure for all the evil things were put through .
maybe if we all stick together we may get the justuice or even the law changed more for the inoccent victims .
we are right behind you holly hears hoping you get the justice you deserve and all them thats youve named sent down.
zarapopet
09-Feb-10, 21:10
maybe we should name and shame all abusers then maybe our kids will have a normal fret free inoccent childhood.
so what if were taken for slander as then we would get our day in court there has to be some kind of justice in this world for kids whos had there innocence robed from them.
we need more support groups here as its time we helped each other through difficult times and theres no other persons can help when they themselves have been there already.
support for our kids to have someone whom understands how they are feeling the sooner we get these sweet inocent kids support and talking therapys they may move on and not suffer so much in adult hood as the longer its left the harder it becomes
What research and what subjects?
Basically I have been researching some history, law- contract law, common law, human rights,inalienable rights, civil rights, treaties, government corruption, monetary systems, legal fictions, techniques in submitting legal notices and affidavits and a host of other stuff much of which is boring but I have discovered a few gems.
i feel it is my duty to share some of this information with you all and I will endeavour to do so periodically although I will be met with a barrage of abuse I suspect but never the less I will post what i have found out and let the reader choose how to receive it.
..for instance can anyone tell me what very important document the following text comes from and what it means?...
"And I doe declare That noe Forreigne Prince Person Prelate, State or Potentate hath or ought to have any Jurisdiction Power Superiority Preeminence or Authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme Soe helpe me God."
[evil]
maybe if we all stick together we may get the justuice or even the law changed more for the inoccent victims .
we are right behind you holly hears hoping you get the justice you deserve and all them thats youve named sent down.
I'd like to think that the legal system is there for the benefit of the people. Considering how much it costs to run. All that money and so much of it being paid out to make lawyers even richer. Justice has to be upheld, we cannot allow wicked people to get off with perverting justice, now or in the future, otherwise the courts will become powerless ..... "the truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is." :roll:
I'd like to think that the legal system is there for the benefit of the people. Considering how much it costs to run. All that money and so much of it being paid out to make lawyers even richer. Justice has to be upheld, we cannot allow wicked people to get off with perverting justice, now or in the future, otherwise the courts will become powerless ..... "the truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is." :roll:
I would like to think that the law is there for the benefit of the people too and to a large extent it is, however that is NOT always the case and there is proof of this which I will post in due time, I'm not trying to be evassive its just takes a bit of working out as to how to convey the info with the appropriate documentation to back it up...but I will be posting what I have found soon.
"And I doe declare That noe Forreigne Prince Person Prelate, State or Potentate hath or ought to have any Jurisdiction Power Superiority Preeminence or Authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme Soe helpe me God."
...it's from the Bill Of Rights 1688/89 which forms part of our constitution and basically it means that under no circumstances should the sovereignty of this country be handed to a foreign power unless we are defeated in war.
Many millions of people died during the wars to ensure we remained a sovereign country..however as you already know Gordon Brown has signed away the sovereignty of Great Britian to Brussels who now make the majority of our laws without given we the people a chance to vote on such an important issue..this is illegal !!
"And I doe declare That noe Forreigne Prince Person Prelate, State or Potentate hath or ought to have any Jurisdiction Power Superiority Preeminence or Authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme Soe helpe me God."
...it's from the Bill Of Rights 1688/89 which forms part of our constitution and basically it means that under no circumstances should the sovereignty of this country be handed to a foreign power unless we are defeated in war.
Many millions of people died during the wars to ensure we remained a sovereign country..however as you already know Gordon Brown has signed away the sovereignty of Great Britian to Brussels who now make the majority of our laws without given we the people a chance to vote on such an important issue..this is illegal !!
Your are cherry picking Clash67, in 1688/89, Scotland was a separate country to England, and this what you quoted was the English Bill of Rights, nothing to do with us Scots.
The English Government and the Scottish money grabbing lairds sold Scotland to the English with the Union of the Parliaments signed in 1707
http://www.parliament.uk/actofunion/
Tubthumper
10-Feb-10, 22:53
Gruesome stuff indeed. Puts me in mind of the Orkney satanic child abuse scandal, Cleveland & Nottingham scandals, the Jersey 'bones in the basement' scandal and a whole host of others.
Boozeburglar
11-Feb-10, 00:24
Your are cherry picking Clash67, in 1688/89, Scotland was a separate country to England, and this what you quoted was the English Bill of Rights, nothing to do with us Scots.
The English Government and the Scottish money grabbing lairds sold Scotland to the English with the Union of the Parliaments signed in 1707
http://www.parliament.uk/actofunion/
Claim of Right Act, same time applies in Scotland.
Yes the Bill of rights is part of the English constitution which has been broken by the traitors in parliament, however the Claim of rights has also been violated the fact that many thousands of Scots and english died defending the sovereignty of Britain only for government to hand away our country to a foreign unelected power must surely be the biggest crime AND insult to the people ever.
I don't see how this would possibly be ignored by the media and I don't believe the media would or could be silenced on such a subject. If they found any credibilty in it they would be hounding the named officials and braying for blood.
Anyone got any more info?
Mrs.Greig (Hollie's mother) believes that the investigation has been effectively blocked, but Mrs.Greig and her daughter have a group of high-profile supporters who want to see justice done.
Mrs.Greig (Hollie's mother) believes that the investigation has been effectively blocked, but Mrs.Greig and her daughter have a group of high-profile supporters who want to see justice done.
So there is movement, yes?
So there is movement, yes?
Not quite sure, what you mean by, 'movement.' :roll:
Not quite sure, what you mean by, 'movement.' :roll:
Toward getting Justice for Hollie and prosecuting these sick individuals?
Toward getting Justice for Hollie and prosecuting these sick individuals?
Ah, now I get your drift! :)
zarapopet
11-Feb-10, 18:07
of course we want justice for hollie but also for all of the abused kids out there but its unlikely ubtill we get the law changed and drasticly, its not just the scottish law that needs changed also the english i had dealings with bith and what does it all boil down to collaberation............
How many stories like this come to light but somehow fade off into the distance and are never heard of again, hopefully the bloke in the video is pursuing this.
Tubthumper
11-Feb-10, 20:17
How many stories like this turn out to be simply the ramblings of paranoid conspiracy theorists or simply those who desire attention?
There's no doubt that there are sick puppies out there and bad things happening. But like false rape allegations, all that the hysteria does is mask the real problems, put the real sufferers in jeporady and help the real baddies get away with it.
Just because someone says something on the internet, it doesn't mean it's true...
Just because anyone says anything doesn't mean that anything is true.
"How many stories like this turn out to be simply the ramblings of paranoid conspiracy theorists or simply those who desire attention?"
..and how many stories like this are ignored and labelled as "ramblings"?
In the oldy days suppressing information was easier but with the internet information can be exposed to a whole new level.
people sit and watch the news every night assuming what they are being told is true...but is it? The answer is NO! it is a government controlled media , for example , during the coal miners riots in 1984 Thatcher gave the nod to the police to get wired into them (the miners) and during the filming of the strike actions the police charged at the miners and layed into them pretty good, however Thatcher told the BBC to edit the footage in such a way to make it look like the miners were charging towards the police so the BBC filmed the miners running away and made it look like they were running TOWARDS the police in order to sway public opinion. Pretty sneaky and very illegal yet the BBC are nothing more than a propaganda machine for the state.
Tubthumper
11-Feb-10, 21:55
Just because anyone says anything doesn't mean that anything is true.
"How many stories like this turn out to be simply the ramblings of paranoid conspiracy theorists or simply those who desire attention?"
..and how many stories like this are ignored and labelled as "ramblings"?
In the oldy days suppressing information was easier but with the internet information can be exposed to a whole new level.
people sit and watch the news every night assuming what they are being told is true...but is it? The answer is NO! it is a government controlled media , for example , during the coal miners riots in 1984 Thatcher gave the nod to the police to get wired into them (the miners) and during the filming of the strike actions the police charged at the miners and layed into them pretty good, however Thatcher told the BBC to edit the footage in such a way to make it look like the miners were charging towards the police so the BBC filmed the miners running away and made it look like they were running TOWARDS the police in order to sway public opinion. Pretty sneaky and very illegal yet the BBC are nothing more than a propaganda machine for the state.
I remember it differently, and I was actually there in 1984. Funny how the government are utterly incapable of getting anything right except where it comes to highly complex and implausible coverups.
Just because anyone says anything doesn't mean that anything is true.
"How many stories like this turn out to be simply the ramblings of paranoid conspiracy theorists or simply those who desire attention?"
..and how many stories like this are ignored and labelled as "ramblings"?
In the oldy days suppressing information was easier but with the internet information can be exposed to a whole new level.
people sit and watch the news every night assuming what they are being told is true...but is it? The answer is NO! it is a government controlled media , for example , during the coal miners riots in 1984 Thatcher gave the nod to the police to get wired into them (the miners) and during the filming of the strike actions the police charged at the miners and layed into them pretty good, however Thatcher told the BBC to edit the footage in such a way to make it look like the miners were charging towards the police so the BBC filmed the miners running away and made it look like they were running TOWARDS the police in order to sway public opinion. Pretty sneaky and very illegal yet the BBC are nothing more than a propaganda machine for the state.
Good points. It has been acknowledged, on the BBC itself (Panorama, about 12 months prior to the London bombings of July 2005), that the BBC has to broadcast what the government tells it to broadcast.
Tubthumper
11-Feb-10, 22:19
Most of the stock footage I've seen on TV of the miner's strike in 1984 has shown the Police being brutal to the miners. Horse charging, batons flailing, individuals dragged away by snatch squads and firmly battered etc.
You don't see footage of the anarchists, communists etc in the background lobbing bottles and bricks into the fray to get it started, which one would think the BBC would have been ordered to catch and expose as much as possible...
So the BBC are ordered to broadcast at the gov's behest. What about Sky? And ITN? And CNN and all the independent paparazzi? And all the swarms of photographers that appear as if by magic at 'spontaneous' riots, right in the thick of it, encouraging the skinheads to lob a bin through Curry's window and rob a widescreen...
The government cover them up too, do they? Yeah right, in the minds of those who get a bit warm and moist at the thought of being party to secret knowledge.
No one can make you see things that you do not want to see, Tubthumper. If you have faith in Sky then that is up to you. I have no problem with that.
Tubthumper
11-Feb-10, 23:35
And likewise Stavros, no-one can make you see what you're determined not to. I don't mind that.
I just get a bit animated when real issues get swamped by hysteria.
Now I think about it, that Clash67 tripe about the miner's strike was really annoying as well as being plain wrong.
Clash67 couldn't have watched the TV footage or he'd have seen what everyone else saw, i.e the Polis putting the boot in and the miners getting gubbed. He must instead have read about the situation during his 'research', on dodgy blog sites, and cherry-picked some second-hand outrage.
As I said, I know he's wrong because I was actually there.
I just get a bit animated when real issues get swamped by hysteria.
Yes, there can be hysteria, but sometimes hysteria is willingly whipped up (as is being attempted for the past three years or so with Iran, for example).
I do not know anything about the Miners' Strike, so I will not comment on that further.
Tubthumper
11-Feb-10, 23:46
Fair points.
zarapopet
12-Feb-10, 09:45
yes i AGREE THEM THAT MAKE FALSE ALLIGATIONS SHOULD BE CHARGED I KNOW OF TWO RECENT CASES OF FALSE ALLIGATIONS AND THEY GOT OF SCOT FREE NOW THAT REALY PISSES ME OF .HOW COULD THEY ASS YES THEY JEPODISE US THE REAL VICTIMS JUSTICE AS IT GETS HARDER AND HARDER TO GET THESE SICK INDIVIDUALS OF OUR STREETS . MAYBE PUTTING THEM ALL ON AN ISLAND TOGETHER WITH AN ELECTRIC CURRANT RUNNING AROUND IT SO THEY WONT ESCAPE MAY BE THE ANSWER AWAY FROM ALL THE LITTLE TOTS.
ZAP THEM WITH THE HIGHEST CURRANT OF ELECTRIC WOW THAT WOULD BE WORTH SEEING .
Tubthumper
12-Feb-10, 13:23
And what if they turn out to be not guilty?
zarapopet
12-Feb-10, 18:14
well im sorry but i know 100% what i was put through and they certainly are guilty but of course this bloody justice system stinks .where is our justice aye i lost 20years due to these sick perverts so i want my justice ffor them to feel how and what they put me throgh ,these sick b are guilty and i want my justice and am looking for ways to get it no matter what.they are evil creatures and shouldnt get away with what they have done they are leading a normal happy life while im suffering even now . ie flash backs cant go enclosed spaces ect ............[evil]
surely you dont grudge us thast.
And likewise Stavros, no-one can make you see what you're determined not to. I don't mind that.
I just get a bit animated when real issues get swamped by hysteria.
Now I think about it, that Clash67 tripe about the miner's strike was really annoying as well as being plain wrong.
Clash67 couldn't have watched the TV footage or he'd have seen what everyone else saw, i.e the Polis putting the boot in and the miners getting gubbed. He must instead have read about the situation during his 'research', on dodgy blog sites, and cherry-picked some second-hand outrage.
As I said, I know he's wrong because I was actually there.
Well we do have a bit of an attitude don't we Tubthumper! So I am talking tripe am I, well for your info. Tony Benn recounted how Thatcher got the BBC to edit footage in favour of the police and he admitted it on telly during the documentaries shown by the bbc, BUT THEN AGAIN YOU WOULD KNOW BETTER CAUSE YOU WERE THERE...where exactly? at what point did you NOT hear Thatcher manipulate the Beeb?
Perhaps you should do a little more research yourself before shooting your mouth of oh wise one.
..and I dare say there a few miners that would disagree with you aswell.
And please don't go slagging of my reasearch because you have no idea what you are talking about or where I gain my info from. If my thread offends you DON'T READ THEM!
Tubthumper
12-Feb-10, 19:51
Well we do have a bit of an attitude don't we Tubthumper! So I am talking tripe am I, well for your info. Tony Benn recounted how Thatcher got the BBC to edit footage in favour of the police and he admitted it on telly during the documentaries shown by the bbc, BUT THEN AGAIN YOU WOULD KNOW BETTER CAUSE YOU WERE THERE...where exactly? at what point did you NOT hear Thatcher manipulate the Beeb?
Perhaps you should do a little more research yourself before shooting your mouth of oh wise one...and I dare say there a few miners that would disagree with you aswell. And please don't go slagging of my reasearch because you have no idea what you are talking about or where I gain my info from. If my thread offends you DON'T READ THEM!
I was at Bilston Glen in 1984, right though the dispute. I saw with my own eyes what was happening. I heard with my own ears what was being said. And I actually watched the TV programmes at the time, not the edited highlights 25 years later. The BBC's reporting of the dispute could have been better but I think it was fairly representative of the situation. As I mentioned, most of the stock footage I've seen, BBC or otherwise in documentaries has shown the police dishing out the brutality. As for Tony Benn: Well you would hardly expect him to come out waving the flag for Maggie, would you? And he's not going to get paid to appear on many TV programmes for saying 'nothing happened' is he?
During that sad period of UK history there were many fights going on, between the Tories and the Unions, the Polis and the Pickets, the NUM leadership and the ordinary miners.
You're very sensitive about your research - why not put your sources up here so we can all have a look and maybe change our minds? After all, it's hardly going to be secret is it?
Maybe some miners will disagree with me - there was plenty of disagreement in 1984, and let me tell you most of the guys were against the strike from the start. What has your research told you about the internal relationships between the miners, or the general feeling of the UK population who were somewhat tired of being held to ransom by said unions?
I was at Bilston Glen in 1984, right though the dispute. I saw with my own eyes what was happening. I heard with my own ears what was being said. And I actually watched the TV programmes at the time, not the edited highlights 25 years later. The BBC's reporting of the dispute could have been better but I think it was fairly representative of the situation. As I mentioned, most of the stock footage I've seen, BBC or otherwise in documentaries has shown the police dishing out the brutality. As for Tony Benn: Well you would hardly expect him to come out waving the flag for Maggie, would you? And he's not going to get paid to appear on many TV programmes for saying 'nothing happened' is he?
During that sad period of UK history there were many fights going on, between the Tories and the Unions, the Polis and the Pickets, the NUM leadership and the ordinary miners.
You're very sensitive about your research - why not put your sources up here so we can all have a look and maybe change our minds? After all, it's hardly going to be secret is it?
Maybe some miners will disagree with me - there was plenty of disagreement in 1984, and let me tell you most of the guys were against the strike from the start. What has your research told you about the internal relationships between the miners, or the general feeling of the UK population who were somewhat tired of being held to ransom by said unions?
Here, Here, History eh? you couldn't make it up-well you can if you read it on the internet 25 years later. Well said :cool:
Tubthumper
12-Feb-10, 20:06
surely you dont grudge us that.
I'm sorry for your pain, I truly am. And I hope you find justice and peace.
Its amazing how this thread has travelled over the length of itself. Its an org classic because it has all the ingredients for interesting discussion. Sexual abuse, pedophilia, class wars, politics and human relationships.
Are the people mentioned in the film real people? I keep an eye on the papers and Ive never heard of any of them. That doesnt mean its not real but surely the charges here are so unbelievable there should be an inquiry immediatley. If not why not?
Tubthumper
12-Feb-10, 20:43
12th Feb 2010
This morning, Robert Green, the campaigner leading the investigation into the Hollie Greig case (http://www.ukcolumn.org/2010/02/02/child-rapists-protected-by-the-state/), was detained by Grampian Police in Aberdeen.
Robert had gone to Aberdeen to campaign for justice for Hollie, and to announce his intention to stand for election there as an MP on the single issue of Hollie’s case. Somehow, Grampian Police traced Robert to his B&B, and picked him up from there and handed his key back to the proprietor – clearly indicating they intend to keep for some time.
http://www.ukcolumn.org/2010/02/12/robert-green-in-grampian-police-custody/#
Well! Lifted for slander? Or will he disappear?
Well at least some kind of truth will come out now.
I suppose it has to be slander. If he disappears where could he go? :eek:
I am not really surprised he has been arrested, without charges being brought I really do not think he should have been naming people.
Tubthumper
12-Feb-10, 22:45
Clash67 has disappeared as well - maybe the illuminati reptiles have got him...
Well at least some kind of truth will come out now.
I suppose it has to be slander. If he disappears where could he go? :eek:
Isnt it only slander if its not true? I suppose that if it is true and they have covered it up this long they will find a way of continuing to do so :confused x
Isnt it only slander if its not true? I suppose that if it is true and they have covered it up this long they will find a way of continuing to do so :confused x
There is no slander law in Scotland, only defamation. Defamation is not a police matter, but a private matter.
My guess is that he will have been detained under the catch-all "terrorism" legislation. This implicates certain people even more!
northener
13-Feb-10, 00:34
Well we do have a bit of an attitude don't we Tubthumper! So I am talking tripe am I, well for your info. Tony Benn recounted how Thatcher got the BBC to edit footage in favour of the police and he admitted it on telly during the documentaries shown by the bbc, BUT THEN AGAIN YOU WOULD KNOW BETTER CAUSE YOU WERE THERE...where exactly? at what point did you NOT hear Thatcher manipulate the Beeb?
Perhaps you should do a little more research yourself before shooting your mouth of oh wise one.
..and I dare say there a few miners that would disagree with you aswell.
And please don't go slagging of my reasearch because you have no idea what you are talking about or where I gain my info from. If my thread offends you DON'T READ THEM!
Like Tubthumper, I don't need skewed research. You don't offend me either, you're not that good.
Mrs N's family are all from the pit country around Hemsworth, Kinsley, Barnsley..etc*. She has lost about half a dozen of her immediate family through various pit accidents over the years.
My father in law was a miner, like many of his relatives and neighbours, an upright honest man, like hundreds of his colleagues from the same village, they fought in WW2 and came home to work towards the ideals of a Socialist Britain and a sense of care for their fellow workers and the local community.
They were all caught up during that horrendous period of British history in the early 80's, and, up to a point, I was caught up in it whilst on leave.
Many of them stood silently aside with dismay to watch left-wing thugs, shite-stirrers and NUM hard-men wade in and destroy their way of life. None of them would say that the Thatcher Government was innocent - but they all saw with their own eyes how the miners rightful cause was hijacked by rabid minority hell-bent upon destroying Thatchers government - regardless of the cost. And that turned out to be a bloody high cost.
Your post shows a singular lack of knowledge regarding the strike, the reasons behind it and the people actually involved in the action itself.
* you may want to buy a map and find out where these places are.
northener
13-Feb-10, 00:39
There is no slander law in Scotland, only defamation. Defamation is not a police matter, but a private matter.
My guess is that he will have been detained under the catch-all "terrorism" legislation. This implicates certain people even more!
Come on, Stavro. You don't honestly believe he'll be nicked under terrorisn legislation?
Like Tubthumper, I don't need skewed research. You don't offend me either, you're not that good.
Mrs N's family are all from the pit country around Hemsworth, Kinsley, Barnsley..etc*. She has lost about half a dozen of her immediate family through various pit accidents over the years.
My father in law was a miner, like many of his relatives and neighbours, an upright honest man, like hundreds of his colleagues from the same village, they fought in WW2 and came home to work towards the ideals of a Socialist Britain and a sense of care for their fellow workers and the local community.
They were all caught up during that horrendous period of British history in the early 80's, and, up to a point, I was caught up in it whilst on leave.
Many of them stood silently aside with dismay to watch left-wing thugs, shite-stirrers and NUM hard-men wade in and destroy their way of life. None of them would say that the Thatcher Government was innocent - but they all saw with their own eyes how the miners rightful cause was hijacked by rabid minority hell-bent upon destroying Thatchers government - regardless of the cost. And that turned out to be a bloody high cost.
Your post shows a singular lack of knowledge regarding the strike, the reasons behind it and the people actually involved in the action itself.
* you may want to buy a map and find out where these places are.
My original point was the manipulation of the media, it is now a widely known fact that the incident I am speaking of ( Thatcher manipulating the BBC) happened. At no point did I give an opinion either way as to whether the miners strike was right or wrong but obviously you are reading something into my posts that isn't there.
What is it with this forum that makes some people outright offensive for no reason.
I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STRIKES ITSELF I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DECEPTION USED BY THE THEN GOVERNMENT, JESUS GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!!!!
My original point was the manipulation of the media, it is now a widely known fact that the incident I am speaking of ( Thatcher manipulating the BBC) happened. At no point did I give an opinion either way as to whether the miners strike was right or wrong but obviously you are reading something into my posts that isn't there.
What is it with this forum that makes some people outright offensive for no reason.
I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STRIKES ITSELF I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DECEPTION USED BY THE THEN GOVERNMENT, JESUS GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!!!!
This widely known fact? I didn't know it and I'm quite clever. And stop shouting :mad:
Tubthumper
13-Feb-10, 13:51
My original point was the manipulation of the media, it is now widely known that the incident I am speaking of ( Thatcher manipulating the BBC). At no point did I give an opinion either way as to whether the miners strike was right or wrong but obviously are are reading something into my posts that aren't there.
What is it with this forum that makes some people outright offensive for no reason.
I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STRIKES ITSELF I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DECEPTION USED BY THE THEN GOVERNMENT, JESUS GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!!!!
You put false information on the miner's strike on this site to back up your paranoid delusions. You used uncorraborated and frankly hysterical material to wind up the users of this site, causing alarm and distress (Zarapoppet). That's why some people (ordinary people who don't have your level of awareness, intellect and routes to the truth) take offence.
By the way, your 'investigator' has been dragged off to the chokey,but will probably be let off once his state of mind is established.
Better put your tinfoil hat back on, 'they' can tell what you're thinking and where you are. In the meantime, why not post some of your 'sources' so we can maybe change our minds.
By the way, I was particularly impressed by your example of Tony Benn stating that the BBC was manipulated by the Government, during a documentary made by ....The BBC!
Evil conspiracies - they're everywhere
northener
13-Feb-10, 14:29
My original point was the manipulation of the media, it is now a widely known fact that the incident I am speaking of ( Thatcher manipulating the BBC) happened. At no point did I give an opinion either way as to whether the miners strike was right or wrong but obviously you are reading something into my posts that isn't there.
What is it with this forum that makes some people outright offensive for no reason.
I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STRIKES ITSELF I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DECEPTION USED BY THE THEN GOVERNMENT, JESUS GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!!!!
First thing, stoup shouting if you want to be taken seriously. Combative statements and heavy disagreement I have no problem with. But ranting and shouting will get you nowhere.
Tony Benn always was a strong opponent of the Thatcher regime. I've a lot of respect for the guy, although I do not agree with many of his views.
However, whilst constantly banging on about the Beeb/Thatcher links, he had no problem at all about keeping conveniently quiet about miners getting their heads kicked in by other miners for voicing their dissent regarding the NUM. None of that got any real coverage, did it?
Benn was always critical of Police being brought in from outside the pit areas - yet there was never any criticism from him regarding the busloads of non-NUM thugs who were brought in from outside the pit regions merely because they puported to be showing 'solidarity' with the Miners cause.
So your 'manipulation of the media' goes across the board - not just with the Beeb.
A bit of knowledge on a subject is always a good thing to have before you post, I find......
Come on, Stavro. You don't honestly believe he'll be nicked under terrorisn legislation?
What other justification would they have, northener? Incitement to riot? Who knows? But those who may be claiming to have been defamed are very, very aware of what legal redress they have against that - and it has nothing to do with the police.
The fact that the police have been drafted in, like the private armies of old, strongly supports the view that some people in public office have something to hide. Especially since the original claims and charges have not been investigated.
northener
13-Feb-10, 16:03
What other justification would they have, northener? Incitement to riot? Who knows? But those who may be claiming to have been defamed are very, very aware of what legal redress they have against that - and it has nothing to do with the police.
Our chum on the video made some very serious allegations. If he's been a little elaborate with his description of events, then i'm not suprised he's been lifted.
Allegations of hypodermic syringe wielding 'Social Workers' ...yeah, right. Standard issue that is.
I'd definitely be after his head if I worked for Social Sevices.
The fact that the police have been drafted in, like the private armies of old, strongly supports the view that some people is public office have something to hide. Especially since the original claims and charges have not been investigated.
Doesn't support any view at all, Stav. All it means is that the Police reckon they have enough evidence to do him. He could have been warned of his actions potentially jeapordising an ongoing investigation. it could be a complete fabrication as part of some self promoting 'crusade', the child could be subject to a protection order. he's dragged a minors name into the public domain for a kick off. That'll go down like a lead baloon with plod.
BTW:Please leave out the 'private army' guff, you're starting to sound like Rik of the 'Young Ones'.:Razz
If the police did nothing, you'd be saying that they are acting under orders...they nick him and you say they are acting under orders....conspiracy abounds again....
Anyway, just fer you Ri...-er, Stav:
http://www.msdivine.net/theyoungones/rickpeas.jpg
Let's just wait and see what the police say that they arrested him for, northener.
P.S. Your photo was wasted on me - I've never seen the programme you refer to.
AmI the only person here whose very own doorstep is not in Aberdeen?
Boozeburglar
13-Feb-10, 17:19
He was arrested for Breach, does no one use a reputable source?
northener
13-Feb-10, 18:09
Let's just wait and see what the police say that they arrested him for, northener.
P.S. Your photo was wasted on me - I've never seen the programme you refer to.
You've never seen The Young Ones?:eek:
Kids terday, eh? What are they like.
TYO was an anarchic comedy prog about a group of students living together. Nigel Planer played a hippy on a permanent downer, Ade Edmonson played Vivian, a punk nutter and Rik Mayall played Rick..a rather shallow trendy lefty type who was a rather loathsome individual.
I was taking the mick as saying the police are a private army is something I could hear Rick saying in my head...usually followed by something like " Yeah, lets kill all the Pigs.":Razz
See if you can dig any of them out. they've dated a bit, but are still funny...to me anyway.
BTW - I don't mean to imply you are a loathsome individual.:cool:
You've never seen The Young Ones?:eek:
Kids terday, eh? What are they like.
TYO was an anarchic comedy prog about a group of students living together. Nigel Planer played a hippy on a permanent downer, Ade Edmonson played Vivian, a punk nutter and Rik Mayall played Rick..a rather shallow trendy lefty type who was a rather loathsome individual.
I was taking the mick as saying the police are a private army is something I could hear Rick saying in my head...usually followed by something like " Yeah, lets kill all the Pigs.":Razz
See if you can dig any of them out. they've dated a bit, but are still funny...to me anyway.
BTW - I don't mean to imply you are a loathsome individual.:cool:
Well, now you mention Rik Mayall, I did see him recite his poem, "Thatcher," once. Not too long, but certainly funny. Did you see that?
northener
13-Feb-10, 18:16
Well, now you mention Rik Mayall, I did see him recite his poem, "Thatcher," once. Not too long, but certainly funny. Did you see that?
Nope, but I'm going to dig it out now you've told me.
I'm a big fan of Rik Mayall and Ade Edmonson in 'Bottom' - brilliant stuff.
zarapopet
14-Feb-10, 21:55
hi he was charged with breach of the peace seamingley anything comes under breach of the peace all he was going to do was hand out leaflets .
he will apear in court on monday,
well what about all of the named abusers will they once again be let pof the hook something in this case is not right if this wasnt true then why oh why have none of them taken him for defimation of charactor.
and if this is untrue why has hollie named these people . how did she know there names where did she meet them if not in the ped ring.
there has to be something in it and im with hollie all the way they need to be put away they are supposed to represent our goverment and they are getting away with murder of sorts.
not enough evidence well i think hoolie wound know exactly what they did and no doubt she has explained in detail of what they did to her if thats not enough what is .
these sick individuals are extremly clever and do not abuse people when there is anyone about so where the hell does our procecution legal systems think we are to get the evidence3 from.
we whant our justice and its about time the law gave us that satisfaction of seeing our abusers put away.
unless you have been in that situation you havent got a clue on the suffering we have had to deal with and still dealing with,
#
Yes, he's due to appear in Aberdeen Sheriff Court tomorrow morning I understand, so I presume that the P&J will report on it.
roadbowler
14-Feb-10, 22:58
look, no til be creepy but, i haven't seen the video link but read gronnucks link. There was the case of 'moira' and alexander gartshore in coatsbridge wi a similar theme, then many clouds around the dunblane situation and then that alan wilson recently down in inverness. It's something i try to avoid thinking about too much as it's so upsetting but, these cases are becoming more out in the open. So, i dread to think whits going on that never makes the media or flies under the radar. Frightening really.
He is not appearing at Aberdeen Sheriff Court and no one is saying where he has been moved to.
Still think the anti-"terrorism" legislation is not being used to shut him up, northener?
This gets more and more disturbing.
Metalattakk
15-Feb-10, 15:02
Stonehaven Sheriff Court, 2pm today (approx), charged with Breach of the Peace. The P&J will be there.
What disturbs me is the lengths people will go to, when presented with little fact and a whole bunch of supposition, all mixed in with an unhealthy dose of conspiratorial hogwash.
Yay trial by media, burn the paedophile! kill the paedophile! (!) Now we go live to the scene for the opinions of some woman from a council estate who believes she knows best. Following that stay tuned for the After-extra-super-alpha-red-Xtra-factor where we hear the opinions of those on the filming crew.
Update regarding Robert Green. .... He appeared in Stonehaven Sheriff Court this afternoon and received representation from a duty solicitor. Made no plea and has been bailed and released. Will be in the PJ tomorrow.
Tubthumper
15-Feb-10, 21:49
Hmm, bailed and released after receiving legal representation - what will the theorists read into that?
In the meantime, I wonder about the rights to privacy that the innocent people who have been tarred with the brush of child abuse make of it all? Mud sticks? No smoke without fire? Innocent until proved guilty?
Stavro - In the event that the allegations are proved to be groundless, will all these faceless 'individuals' say sorry for the grief they have caused?
northener
15-Feb-10, 22:18
He is not appearing at Aberdeen Sheriff Court and no one is saying where he has been moved to.
Still think the anti-"terrorism" legislation is not being used to shut him up, northener?
.........
Got it in one, Stav.:Razz
You put false information on the miner's strike on this site to back up your paranoid delusions.
He is talking about the Battle of Orgreave.
The police charged the pickets, the pickets responded by throwing rocks and bottles. On the BBC News that day the footage had been edited to show the pickets throwing stones and bottles first and the police charging second.
In 1991, the South Yorkshire Police were forced to pay out £425,000 to thirty-nine miners who were arrested in the incident.
This is all well documented history, I don't think any of it is in dispute.
Hmm, bailed and released after receiving legal representation - what will the theorists read into that?
Considering that the hearing was held in camera, quite a lot I would imagine.
Hmm, bailed and released after receiving legal representation - what will the theorists read into that?
In the meantime, I wonder about the rights to privacy that the innocent people who have been tarred with the brush of child abuse make of it all? Mud sticks? No smoke without fire? Innocent until proved guilty?
Stavro - In the event that the allegations are proved to be groundless, will all these faceless 'individuals' say sorry for the grief they have caused?
I do not know how these allegations can be proven to be groundless, when the police will not or can not, even interview those in elevated position. However, should that situation arise, I would apologise for implying anything otherwise. Obviously I can not speak for anyone else of the thousands and thousands who are now becoming more and more convinced that the public servants are hiding an awful lot.
RecQuery - What has Holly Grieg's mother living on a council estate got to do with anything?
Tubthumper
15-Feb-10, 23:06
I do not know how these allegations can be proven to be groundless, when the police will not or can not, even interview those in elevated position. However, should that situation arise, I would apologise for implying anything otherwise. Obviously I can not speak for anyone else of the thousands and thousands who are now becoming more and more convinced that the public servants are hiding an awful lot.
I too will apologise if/when its proved that all those who have been named are found guilty.
However, I find it odd that the mass 'viral' response that is manifesting itself is based solely on the material 'published' (without anyone having recourse to question it) on the UKColumn blog site. Which is, admittedly, a load of utter, vindictive, nasty, right-wing, paranoid tripe. And what a lucid individual Hollie Greig is, isn't she?
And where is the story being reproduced? On David Icke's wonderful site, among others proud to be conspiracy sites!
The masses are outraged. A 'D' Notice has been issued! Robert has no legal representation!! He's been kidnapped!!! It's on Twitter (Yes because one of your paranoid clique has just put it there you dope!)
Then when it becomes apparent that no such situation exists, it all goes quiet
What are the Polis to do? If they ignore this Robert Green (who?) he continues his malicious diatribe against both the mighty and the poor social worker: If they lift him, it becomes an anti-terror issue, an alien conspiracy, the 'man' doing a cover-up. And if they interview all those named (if that hasn't already been done) and the CPS/ PF decides there's no chance of a conviction OR there's no case full stop...
God forbid that any of us get on the wrong side of these faceless people - Your name in lights, branded a mad child molester, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Get a lawyer to seek an injunction for the lies? You've fallen into their trap. Prove you are innocent in a court of law? There's a cover-up, they're all in it together... Face your accuser in a court? No smoke without fire.
The pity is that there may be an ounce of substance in Hollie's sad story - unfortunately now that the conspiracy brigade are all hot and sticky over it, there's sod all chance of getting to the truth. I pity everyone involved.
Quote: 'They have fallen into our trap!' says the UKColumn all that's missing is the 'Mwahahahahar...
Tubthumper
15-Feb-10, 23:08
He is talking about the Battle of Orgreave.
The police charged the pickets, the pickets responded by throwing rocks and bottles. On the BBC News that day the footage had been edited to show the pickets throwing stones and bottles first and the police charging second.
In 1991, the South Yorkshire Police were forced to pay out £425,000 to thirty-nine miners who were arrested in the incident.
This is all well documented history, I don't think any of it is in dispute.
One episode in a dispute that lasted about a year! Whoooo!
One episode in a dispute that lasted about a year! Whoooo!
But neither false information nor a paranoid delusion, it did happen.
Tubthumper
15-Feb-10, 23:22
But neither false information nor a paranoid delusion, it did happen.
Oh, fair enough.
Can I have permission to change my post to reflect something like: ' you cherry-picking gits on your outrage bus; the whole miner's strike thing was nasty and it was hardly surprising the polis wanted to bust some heads, bearing in mind the pasting they'd taken from the anarchists and commies as well as the non-NUM thugs bussed in at Tony Benn's say-so.
However for the benefit of you people who find your thrills through the carefully-selected second-hand experiences of others, three times distilled and with all remote aspects of actual human life removed and sterilised, who get hot at the thought that great, dark, mysterious and malignant powers are at work, who are disciples of David Icke the Son of God, who, as usual, discover some way to cheapen the whole thing for the benefit of only those grey and sad individuals whose existence is defined by the blog, the tweet and the honk, maybe there is truth in the matter.'
Will that do?
... ' you cherry-picking gits ...'
Will that do?
Yes, that sounds more like you. That will do nicely. :D
Oh, fair enough.
Can I have permission to change my post to reflect something like: ' you cherry-picking gits on your outrage bus; the whole miner's strike thing was nasty and it was hardly surprising the polis wanted to bust some heads, bearing in mind the pasting they'd taken from the anarchists and commies as well as the non-NUM thugs bussed in at Tony Benn's say-so.
However for the benefit of you people who find your thrills through the carefully-selected second-hand experiences of others, three times distilled and with all remote aspects of actual human life removed and sterilised, who get hot at the thought that great, dark, mysterious and malignant powers are at work, who are disciples of David Icke the Son of God, who, as usual, discover some way to cheapen the whole thing for the benefit of only those grey and sad individuals whose existence is defined by the blog, the tweet and the honk, maybe there is truth in the matter.'
Will that do?
They had jobs, not good jobs, doing hard manual labour far under ground. Not the healthiest of jobs either, not many lived to a ripe old age but they wanted to keep their jobs, they wanted to work, not be thrown on the scrap heap.
What is so evil about that?
Tubthumper
15-Feb-10, 23:44
Eh? Fred, have you lost something?
The Plot!!!!!!!!!!!![lol]
Please forgive this post but I found it so disturbing that I had to let you all know about this.
I stumbled upon this story, very disturbing so be prepared to be shocked but very much in keeping with various stories I have come across through research into government activities. This is on our very own doorstep.
http://blip.tv/file/3178935
I note that this thread was primarily about claims by Holly Grieg and secondly about claims regarding the death of her uncle in unusual circumstances.
For myself, I declare that I do not act on behalf of Robert Green, nor on his instructions. I do, however, take a keen interest in his recent treatment, as well as the case in general.
I think that these points need to be clarified, that's all.
Tubthumper
16-Feb-10, 00:17
I note that this thread was primarily about claims by Holly Grieg and secondly about claims regarding the death of her uncle in unusual circumstances.
For myself, I declare that I do not act on behalf of Robert Green, nor on his instructions. I do, however, take a keen interest in his recent treatment, as well as the case in general.
I think that these points need to be clarified, that's all.
I agree. I also think that the claims (as evidenced by 'her' blog on www.ukcolumn.org (http://www.ukcolumn.co.uk)) leave many questions regarding the nature and source of the complaints, the veracity of the complainants, and such evidence as is claimed to have been presented on behalf of Hollie by the mysterious Mr Green, supported by Brian Gerrish et al at UKC.
Where is it? There's scans of every little letter the loonies have sent to GP, but no scan of the letter confirming the claim that Hollie is a reliable & truthful witness. Plenty of allegations and the names of everyone who's loosely associated (and must be living in fear of their lives) and a pile or outrage by people who have nothing to do with the case. What the hell good do 'headlines' written by a faceless numpty, claiming that the Scottish legal system is in meltdown, do for our country, eh?
Eh? Fred, have you lost something?
No, I haven't lost anything.
I'm just trying to explain the reality to you. It was nothing to do with anarchists or commies and Ton Benn didn't bus in any non NUM thugs. The miner's strike happened because the government announced they were closing 20 pits with the loss of 20,000 jobs.
People wanted to work not be on the dole, why do you demonize them?
Tubthumper
16-Feb-10, 00:22
No, I haven't lost anything. I'm just trying to explain the reality to you. It was nothing to do with anarchists or commies and Ton Benn didn't bus in any non NUM thugs. The miner's strike happened because the government announced they were closing 20 pits with the loss of 20,000 jobs. People wanted to work not be on the dole, why do you demonize them?
Take a seat Fred. Relax a bit.
You might have noticed that I posted a thread about being at Bilston in '84. I didn't actually refer to the miners as Commies and anarchists, I was referring to the commies & anarchists (and bussed-in non-NUM thugs) who stirred up a lot of the trouble at the strike face. They were there, Fred, I saw them.
They weren't miners: The miners were our friends - it was the agenda-wielding clowns who caused the problems.
You weren't there, were you?
Tubthumper
16-Feb-10, 00:38
You're ignoring me Fred. Let's make it simple...
Repeat after me:
There is a world outside my door
It is full of people who actually do things
They don't just read about it on the web
They interact with one another and have feelings
Their situations are often complicated
Everything I read on Wikipedia is not necissarily the truth
Sometimes 'The Government' is actually right
There are conspiracies...
...But I'm not important enough for anyone to involve me in them
Hmm, bailed and released after receiving legal representation - what will the theorists read into that?
In the meantime, I wonder about the rights to privacy that the innocent people who have been tarred with the brush of child abuse make of it all? Mud sticks? No smoke without fire? Innocent until proved guilty?
Stavro - In the event that the allegations are proved to be groundless, will all these faceless 'individuals' say sorry for the grief they have caused?
He was arrested because one of those he named took out an injunction against him...and one against the UK Column website...... on the 11th February......but as far as I can see if he was arrested on the 12th in Aberdeen...then it was left until rather late in the day.
According to the P&J he doesn't appear to have started handing out leaflets when he was arrested, just making his way to do so...not having received the injunction.
Can you commit a breach of the peace simply by walking along to meet up with supporters carrying leaflets?
What I can't quite understand is why, if nobody has ever been charged with any crime...the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board would be dishing out our cash. No crime...no Criminal injury, one would have thought.
Tubthumper
16-Feb-10, 00:53
There's no copy of a CICB document on the UKC website either, only vague references - fishy?? Who's pulling the strings here, and why?
Let's talk about conspiracies...
There's no copy of a CICB document on the UKC website either, only vague references - fishy?? Who's pulling the strings here, and why?
Let's talk about conspiracies...
If CICB is the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board the P&J seems happy enough to take it as fact. (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1604682/?UserKey=)
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1604682/?UserKey=
Tubthumper
16-Feb-10, 01:22
That's a fair one Oddquine, I assume they've checked it out. As you said, no crime - no CICB payment.
If it turns out that Mr Green and co have exposed a hideous and complicated child abuse network I for one will be extremely sorry for casting aspertions.
But bearing in mind that other sad alleged abuse episodes such as Orkney and Cleveland led nowhere, and that the mechanism for 'exposing' this case is so dubious, forgive me for doubting; especially where there are so many of the 'conspiracy' brigade on board.
The other side of this horrible coin is of course the Irish Catholic Church abuse situation - official silence over many years, condoned and covered up by all branches of officialdom. Could it happen in Scotland?
Let's talk about conspiracies...
Don't keep going on about "conspiracies" and "paranoid delusion," Tub. Just stick to the topic at hand.
A bloke was arrested for breach of the peace when he had not actually done anything yet - not one leaflet, not one syllable - then detained in the police station for three days, then whisked off from Aberdeen to Stonehaven, then his "case," which at this time involves only his plea, is held behind closed doors (there were only TWO other cases up in Stonehaven Sheriff Court yesterday).
If you see NOTHING unusual about all of this (and more), then that really is YOUR problem.
BTW - capitals used for emphasis, not shouting.
Don't keep going on about "conspiracies" and "paranoid delusion," Tub. Just stick to the topic at hand.
A bloke was arrested for breach of the peace when he had not actually done anything yet - not one leaflet, not one syllable - then detained in the police station for three days, then whisked off from Aberdeen to Stonehaven, then his "case," which at this time involves only his plea, is held behind closed doors (there were only TWO other cases up in Stonehaven Sheriff Court yesterday).
If you see NOTHING unusual about all of this (and more), then that really is YOUR problem.
BTW - capitals used for emphasis, not shouting.
Well said Stavro.
Never mind this small minded poster and his pathetic attempts at would be Poetry..
I've always said he/she is terrible at this type 'o' thing,Poetry that is,what a shame this poster takes no heed of advice in the fact that she/he cannot use poetry in its correct form and is embarrassing all who read and sadly have to reiterate the point.
Small minded cleaky orgers are always going to shoot you down,its their aim as is with the dis respective element on this org,and will eventually expose their own idiosyncrasy's in their unrealistic and unfounded factorisation's as to the threats of whats important in this post.
Ignore them for they no not what they do and do not know what they say..evidently as above..;)
northener
16-Feb-10, 09:32
No, I haven't lost anything.
I'm just trying to explain the reality to you. It was nothing to do with anarchists or commies and Ton Benn didn't bus in any non NUM thugs. The miner's strike happened because the government announced they were closing 20 pits with the loss of 20,000 jobs.
People wanted to work not be on the dole, why do you demonize them?
Yes Fred. The miners were put in a position where they had no option but to fight for their jobs.
Unfortunately the whole performance had more to do with Thatcher wanting to break the NUM and Scargill and his cronies wanting to use Union power to bring down an elected government.
Guess who was going to lose regardless of what the outcome was?
Yes Fred. The miners were put in a position where they had no option but to fight for their jobs.
Unfortunately the whole performance had more to do with Thatcher wanting to break the NUM and Scargill and his cronies wanting to use Union power to bring down an elected government.
Guess who was going to lose regardless of what the outcome was?
It wasn't the miners union who announced the closure of 20 pits.
The pits could have been run down slowly, modernised gradually, voluntary redundancies instead of layoffs. These people had worked hard all their lives to keep the power stations running and their fathers before them, entire towns built around the pits, entire communities.
But Thatcher had cheap North Sea gas so she dumped the miners and used the media to make it look like it was all the miner's fault.
Now the North Sea gas is nearly gone and the mines closed, we depend on Norway for our gas, Poland for our coal and the number of families living in fuel poverty has doubled since 2003.
northener
16-Feb-10, 11:13
It wasn't the miners union who announced the closure of 20 pits.
The pits could have been run down slowly, modernised gradually, voluntary redundancies instead of layoffs. These people had worked hard all their lives to keep the power stations running and their fathers before them, entire towns built around the pits, entire communities.
But Thatcher had cheap North Sea gas so she dumped the miners and used the media to make it look like it was all the miner's fault.
Now the North Sea gas is nearly gone and the mines closed, we depend on Norway for our gas, Poland for our coal and the number of families living in fuel poverty has doubled since 2003.
I agree 100% with what you've just said, Fred.
But it doesn't change the reasons and actions behind the whole disgusting situation. Thatcher wanted to break the only Union that was capable of bringing down a government - as in the early 70's miners strike that saw off Heath. Although Scargill certainly wasn't the instigator of the initial actions he swiftly took charge and made it quite clear that he wouldn't rest until the Government was brought down.
"The labour movement had the best opportunity in 50 years to transform not merely an industrial situation and win an important battle for workers in struggle, but an opportunity to change the government of the day."
In other words, he was happy to destroy a democratically elected government through union power - not the vote of the general public.
We went from Joe Bloke fighting for his right to earn a wage to a power struggle over who actually held the whip hand in Britian.
Like I said, there was only one real loser in the whole sorry mess - the miner. Scargill went on to show his true colours in the same way that Thatcher already had.
Like I said, there was only one real loser in the whole sorry mess - the miner. Scargill went on to show his true colours in the same way that Thatcher already had.
No there isn't only one loser, read the posts on this forum from people who just got several hundred pounds worth of electricity bills after the cold spell, they have Thatcher to thank for them.
Boozeburglar
16-Feb-10, 11:35
I hate what the Tories under Thatcher did as much as the next man, but you can blame Capitalism and the subsidising of 'alternative' power production.
Also Fred, all fossil fuels under a responsible government would be used in a way that would ensure their maximum benefit. That would not mean making them cheap. The answer to fuel bills is to increase efficiency, although I would like to see direct intervention from the government in the case of fuel bills for the vulnerable.
It is not enough to give winter fuel payments to people who may not actually use them for fuel, the suppliers should be taken out of the equation in these cases and supplies guaranteed.
northener
16-Feb-10, 11:49
No there isn't only one loser, read the posts on this forum from people who just got several hundred pounds worth of electricity bills after the cold spell, they have Thatcher to thank for them.
A higher electricity bills for the great unwashed is a trivial issue compared to the widespread desolation, destruction of communities and the now deep seated hatred that lie in many of the areas where the miners once lived. I'm not being sarcastic or snotty when i say that - it's just how I view it.
We could go on for ages about what the true legacy of the NUM/Thatcher episode is. But personally I'd sooner forget the whole bloody thing, I don't even like going back to the area where my wifes family is from. It sickens me.
I hate what the Tories under Thatcher did as much as the next man, but you can blame Capitalism and the subsidising of 'alternative' power production.
Also Fred, all fossil fuels under a responsible government would be used in a way that would ensure their maximum benefit. That would not mean making them cheap. The answer to fuel bills is to increase efficiency, although I would like to see direct intervention from the government in the case of fuel bills for the vulnerable.
It is not enough to give winter fuel payments to people who may not actually use them for fuel, the suppliers should be taken out of the equation in these cases and supplies guaranteed.
The mines were nationalised, we controlled our energy costs. The oil and gas was sold off to the corporations, we pay world market prices for our energy now and so long as America can keep stirring up trouble in the Middle East they can keep the prices high.
If we'd kept the mines and spent the money we put into windmills into developing things like underground gasification and carbon sinks we would have no energy worries for a thousand years and no OAPs turning blue.
If we'd kept the mines and spent the money we put into windmills into developing things like underground gasification and carbon sinks we would have no energy worries for a thousand years and no OAPs turning blue.
You're right there Fred
A higher electricity bills for the great unwashed is a trivial issue compared to the widespread desolation, destruction of communities and the now deep seated hatred that lie in many of the areas where the miners once lived. I'm not being sarcastic or snotty when i say that - it's just how I view it.
We could go on for ages about what the true legacy of the NUM/Thatcher episode is. But personally I'd sooner forget the whole bloody thing, I don't even like going back to the area where my wifes family is from. It sickens me.
I was around in the winter of discontent, I remember raging inflation and wage freezes. I remember our MPs deciding they could pretend their wives were their secretaries and boost their income by over 25% at the same time. So it wasn't all the greedy miner's fault, if our leaders had set good examples there may not have been calls for special cases.
Tubthumper
16-Feb-10, 13:15
Well said Stavro.
Never mind this small minded poster and his pathetic attempts at would be Poetry.. I've always said he/she is terrible at this type 'o' thing,Poetry that is,what a shame this poster takes no heed of advice in the fact that she/he cannot use poetry in its correct form and is embarrassing all who read and sadly have to reiterate the point. Small minded cleaky orgers are always going to shoot you down,its their aim as is with the dis respective element on this org,and will eventually expose their own idiosyncrasy's in their unrealistic and unfounded factorisation's as to the threats of whats important in this post. Ignore them for they no not what they do and do not know what they say..evidently as above..;)
Lister, if you're embarrassed, why continue contributing? I'm still waiting for examples of YOUR poetry in the correct form - But forgive me, cos I 'No' not what I do...
Stavro, as far as 'he's done nothing' is concerned, apparently there's injunctions out to prevent people from broadcasting the allegations. And if I was one of those who were being victimised by these people, I'd be pretty upset too.
The paranoid 'cleak' don't consider that there could be another side to the story, ie mistakes, lies, imagination, exaggeration. It's far more exciting to use ones imagination and folow the herd. So whatever some bloke has said becomes fact and that's all that's needed. Remember the Salem witchcraft trials??
Fred - no one suggested the miners were evil. That's your mind playing tricks again. Now get back to the point please.
That's a fair one Oddquine, I assume they've checked it out. As you said, no crime - no CICB payment.
If it turns out that Mr Green and co have exposed a hideous and complicated child abuse network I for one will be extremely sorry for casting aspertions.
But bearing in mind that other sad alleged abuse episodes such as Orkney and Cleveland led nowhere, and that the mechanism for 'exposing' this case is so dubious, forgive me for doubting; especially where there are so many of the 'conspiracy' brigade on board.
The other side of this horrible coin is of course the Irish Catholic Church abuse situation - official silence over many years, condoned and covered up by all branches of officialdom. Could it happen in Scotland?
The problem appears to be not that there was no crime, but that there was not sufficient reliable evidence to convict...the very fact of a CICB payment would appear to point to something criminal having happened.
It appears that at the time of the first investigation......only the father was interviewed and at the time of the last investigation....nobody but Hollie was.
Well, if you will excuse my ignorance....is an investigation going to produce sufficient evidence to prosecute if it does not actually properly investigate the accusations?
It has been possible years after the events to convict other people simply by properly investigating the complaints made.
I'm not saying that this may not have been blown up out of all proportion...however an independent inquiry would be able to examine the insufficiency of the police evidence, would they not? And that would put it all to bed.
Something smells fishy to me....a Breach of the Peace (which never actually occurred) hearing held In Camera.....well DUH!The removal of Robert Green's laptop and documents from his home in England by the Cheshire Police....why for a Breach of the Peace?
It would be very easy for a Conspiracy Theorist to conclude that this was to get rid of all the info possessed by arresting Green on the prospect of his intentions rather than his actions..and using that arrest as an excuse to enter his home.
But it is equally easy for any non-conspiracy theorist to think there is something not quite right within our legal system which needs to be looked at.
The mines were nationalised, we controlled our energy costs. The oil and gas was sold off to the corporations, we pay world market prices for our energy now and so long as America can keep stirring up trouble in the Middle East they can keep the prices high.
If we'd kept the mines and spent the money we put into windmills into developing things like underground gasification and carbon sinks we would have no energy worries for a thousand years and no OAPs turning blue.
Do you think the British deep coal mines could compete on price with the modern open-cast coal operations?
Tubthumper
16-Feb-10, 13:43
Do you think the British deep coal mines could compete on price with the modern open-cast coal operations?
I give up. :roll:
Oddquine, you're right.
Take a seat Fred. Relax a bit.
You might have noticed that I posted a thread about being at Bilston in '84. I didn't actually refer to the miners as Commies and anarchists, I was referring to the commies & anarchists (and bussed-in non-NUM thugs) who stirred up a lot of the trouble at the strike face. They were there, Fred, I saw them.
They weren't miners: The miners were our friends - it was the agenda-wielding clowns who caused the problems.
You weren't there, were you?
I know you said you were there.
You didn't mention which side you were on.
Do you think the British deep coal mines could compete on price with the modern open-cast coal operations?
In my humble memory of the period (and no disrespect to ANY other posters) The whole point was that never again would the unions (any of them not just NUM) be allowed to be in a position to hold the country to ransom. In response to this the Unions went into histerical self destruct mode leaving us with the current situation.
And I might add that it was a bloody popular view at the time (with everyone except Trades Union Members).
I've not really been following this thread. How did we end up here?
You're ignoring me Fred. Let's make it simple...
In your imagination I was ignoring you, In reality I had gone to bed.
In my humble memory of the period (and no disrespect to ANY other posters) The whole point was that never again would the unions (any of them not just NUM) be allowed to be in a position to hold the country to ransom. In response to this the Unions went into histerical self destruct mode leaving us with the current situation.
And I might add that it was a bloody popular view at the time (with everyone except Trades Union Members).
I've not really been following this thread. How did we end up here?
Which is exactly the relevance of the subject to the thread, people got their perceptions of the situation from the media and the media was manipulated.
Now we are in a situation where the banks hold the country to ransom and a tycoon in Australia decides who will be in government.
Do you think the British deep coal mines could compete on price with the modern open-cast coal operations?
I think the point of nationalisation is that they wouldn't need to compete on price. There are more things in life than money you know.
Oh and to get at the vast majority of the coal in Britain you would have to dig one hell of a big hole.
Which is exactly the relevance of the subject to the thread, people got their perceptions of the situation from the media and the media was manipulated.
Now we are in a situation where the banks hold the country to ransom and a tycoon in Australia decides who will be in government.
Maggie making speeches and holding press conferences? How is that manipulating the media?
And as to the Aussie, why would he choose Gordon Brown?
Sorry, lost me there old son
Boozeburglar
16-Feb-10, 14:43
Why don't you start a new thread where you can bang on about the events of the 80s?
It is one thing going off topic; but you are swamping this thread.
northener
16-Feb-10, 15:05
Why don't you start a new thread where you can bang on about the events of the 80s?
It is one thing going off topic; but you are swamping this thread.
Fair coment BB.
No more off-topic from me.
I think the point of nationalisation is that they wouldn't need to compete on price. .
That's what they thought, yes.
Do still think that?
Why don't you start a new thread where you can bang on about the events of the 80s?
It is one thing going off topic; but you are swamping this thread.
Absolutely BB.
Why don't you start a new thread where you can bang on about the events of the 80s?
It is one thing going off topic; but you are swamping this thread.
Yeh ok.
There's another case of a paedophile ring which was covered up by the authorities in the news yesterday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/16/pope-benedict-irish-catholic-abuse
Back on track regarding this thread and for anyone following the latest news concerning Robert Green, whilst he was in Scotland a Grampian police officer took some of his belongings from his house in Cheshire and this was witnessed by Shropshire police. As yet no one knows the full terms of his bail, but do know that it includes a gagging order and that his bail requires him to report to his local police station 3 times a week.
northener
17-Feb-10, 10:02
Back on track regarding this thread and for anyone following the latest news concerning Robert Green, whilst he was in Scotland a Grampian police officer took some of his belongings from his house in Cheshire and this was witnessed by Shropshire police. As yet no one knows the full terms of his bail, but do know that it includes a gagging order and that his bail requires him to report to his local police station 3 times a week.
I would say that this is pretty standard form for someone who has been charged with pooh-stirring. They obviously believe he may abscond or relocate to the other end of the UK.
zarapopet
21-Feb-10, 00:29
why is none of the media reporting this story . why be done for breach of the peace when he never even got to distribute the leaflets.
i think that we should be able to name and shame the people whp have abused us as then maybe just maybe we can save our kids going through the hurendeous experience we were put through,
why is it that a lot of the comunity believe it is the down and out that comit these crimes and not the highly respected people.
mine was very highly respected and it shocked a good few people of the comunity when it came out .
certain people cross the road when i go down the town why are they scared id bite them . why dont you just come up and ask me . dont just go around asking the wrong people was it true or not , i am the person that it happened to and i bloody know full well what they put me through so what if they were a pillar of the comunity or that they were good to you do you know what goes on behind every closed door NO I BLOODY DO NOT THINK SO . SO IN FUTURE ASK ME DONT MAKE UP STORIES . aND IF IT TAKES ME TO NAME AND SHAME THEM THEN I WILL AND THEY CAN TAKE ME FOR DEFORMATION OF CHARICTER AS ID SAY BRING IT ON.......
Freemasonary is alive and well, me thinks.
Let's get real here, people.
Pedophiles are not confined to the lower classes........but the lower classes have less of a network of people who are important enough to be considered above the law.
Can any of us look at the influence in the community of people important in their own minds and assume that a proportion of them could not possibly be involved in pedophile rings or cover-ups of rings?
Think of the Catholic Church....think of the orphanages all over the UK..think of football coaches, scout leaders, Children's Charity organisers etc....even the odd politician.......and then tell me why Grampian police did not investigate thoroughly, which they do not appear to have done.... because there was a senior police officer and a sheriff involved maybe?
Sure as hell they are not making any effort to remove the speculation which has produced an injunction from someone who is not prepared to sue for defamation...so I kinda ask why not.......because sure as hell if I could prove the allegations were so much crap, I'd be in there proving it....whether in a criminal court or a civil court?
I would say that this is pretty standard form for someone who has been charged with pooh-stirring. They obviously believe he may abscond or relocate to the other end of the UK.
Thought I'd replied to this already. (Blame old age)
When does pooh-stirring become an offence? As far as I can see it was the possible intention of pooh-stirring which was the offence, given he was arrested before he actually managed to commit a breach of the peace.
The man is already located out of Scotland....does Scots law appertain in England...can you abscond to your own home anyway?
Tubthumper
21-Feb-10, 01:23
I don't think anyone doubts that the issue is limited to any one social group. The main concern is that if every allegation that gets thrown onto the internet is viewed as true, where does that leave teachers, scout leaders, social workers etc?
Bear in mind that for someone with a grudge of whatever nature, alleging that the object of that grudge is a paedophile is a pretty effective way of destroying their life. How many false allegations have been thrown up? How does one defend oneself? Does mud stick? Is there no smoke without fire?
Has this case been reviewed by the authorities? Was an offence committed by the posting of scurrilous allegations on the web? The UKColumn made it known that Mr Green was going to appear, and subsequently made capital out of his arrest (...they have fallen into our trap). In which case, there was clearly intent to act in a manner likely to result in a breach of the peace. Same as a football hooligan who states on the web that he's going to cause a riot.
Give over with the conspiracy crap will you?
... someone who is not prepared to sue for defamation...so I kinda ask why not.......because sure as hell if I could prove the allegations were so much crap, I'd be in there proving it....whether in a criminal court or a civil court?
Good points, Oddquine.
Defamation is a civil matter, not a criminal matter and therefore does not involve the police.
The allegations have to be proved by the one making them, not disproved by the accused. This means that evidence would be offered by the ones making the claims. Clearly such evidence might be very detrimental if there were any truth at all in the claims. This is probably why the interdict was applied for.
However, there is another twist in all of this. The interdict was not served upon Robert Green and hence was not in force when he traveled to Aberdeen to hand out leaflets. He had done nothing wrong. Hence the breach of the peace charge was used, but he was only walking along the street.
Something seriously wrong I think.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and swims like a duck, then the chances are ... it's a duck.
In which case, there was clearly intent to act in a manner likely to result in a breach of the peace. Same as a football hooligan who states on the web that he's going to cause a riot.
Give over with the conspiracy crap will you?
"Behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace" is only a crime in England and Wales. The charge does not exist under Scottish law.
A breach of the peace therefore has to be committed in Scotland, not be likely to be committed.
Boozeburglar
21-Feb-10, 03:44
As usual you are talking crap.
mine was very highly respected and it shocked a good few people of the comunity when it came out .
A well respected lawyer caught with a teenage rent boy simply got a slap on the wrist. The legal profession is intransigent and self-protective, the whole judicial system needs a complete overhaul, Scotland and England.
Recently I read about a paedophile being housed next to a childrens play park and school. :roll:
Defamation is a civil matter, not a criminal matter and therefore does not involve the police.
Not always, there is a criminal defamation law.
roadbowler
21-Feb-10, 12:09
mind angelika kluk? Spent the day then sat with sheriff maclernan in his range rover for 45 minutes the nite before her murder? Last person to see her alive and gave her a present. A dreamcatcher. Strange how these high profile people are popping up in high profile cases.
~~Tides~~
21-Feb-10, 12:12
I’m not sure that I believe the original story. For the simple fact that her brother must be called Greg Grieg...
Tubthumper
21-Feb-10, 12:26
mind angelika kluk? Spent the day then sat with sheriff maclernan in his range rover for 45 minutes the nite before her murder? Last person to see her alive and gave her a present. A dreamcatcher. Strange how these high profile people are popping up in high profile cases.
Not the last person to see her alive, that would be the evil twisted repeat offender that murdered her and stashed her body under the kirk. He wasn't a high profile individual (although you could say the priest that covered up for him was).
I guess that twisted perving crosses all boundaries of class and profession. It's just that you hear more about the high-profile ones.
Tides - I was also suspicious, the lassie's faither's middle name is apprently 'Genghis'.
Tubthumper
21-Feb-10, 12:55
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8526080.stm
Apparently threatening or abusive behaviour online/ by text etc is currently dealt with as Breach of the Peace in Scotland. As threats and stuff had been issued online before he went to Aberdeen, this might explain a bit about why yer man was lifted.
roadbowler
21-Feb-10, 12:57
i've known of john johnsons, tom thomsons, farquar farquarsons and malcolm malcolms. This isnt uncommon.
Yea, lets not forget him, another catholic priest who admitted in court he had sexual encounters with angelika several times.
roadbowler
21-Feb-10, 13:05
gee, you could say a breach of the peace happens once an hour on the org then couldn't you? High crime rate here but ne'er heard of nae arrests yet!
Tubthumper
21-Feb-10, 13:10
Ah, but wait till someone on here says they're going to hand out leaflets. Then they'll fall into our trap!
Mwahahahahaharrr...!
Turquoise
21-Feb-10, 13:42
I’m not sure that I believe the original story. For the simple fact that her brother must be called Greg Grieg...
I may be wrong, but I'm quite sure the mother reverted to her maiden name of Greig - so the son actually didn't have the surname Greig. Possibly the whole reason she called him Greg.
zarapopet
21-Feb-10, 14:39
aye there is such a thing in scotland as breach of the peace . i know as i was going to be charged with it.
if someone makes a statment to scottish police it cannot be counted in an english court unless you make a statement to the english court as they are then counted as two different cases strange as it may seem.
so i gather hollie had to make her statements to the english police for the abuse that happened there and then make other statements to the scotish police for the abuse that happened in scotland.
so if she has done that then i cant see her making it up as it is a hurendeous possition to be in reliving every individual act that these people put her through its tough enough when your able bodied but far more difficult and complex due to holllie having downs .
unless you have been in that situation then you know exactly what a horrific situation hollie is in and the devistation it can cause .
i do hope that nobody has put things into holllies head as these people are then sicker than the pedos themselves.
Not always, there is a criminal defamation law.
The last criminal defamation case to go before the House of Lords was in 1980 (Gleaves v Deakin), when Lord Diplock implied that it would only override the right to freedom of speach if the action was deemed "necessary for the protection of the public interest."
The House of Lords covered England and Wales, not Scotland.
Do you have a reference specific to Scotland?
And anyway, what I said would still apply; that to take a case against Robert Green for defamation would enable Mr. Green to present his evidence in order to prove his point. It certainly seems that various people would not want that.
As usual you are talking crap.
As usual, your opinion and "contribution" is of no significance to this debate, boozleburger. Thanks anyway.
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