View Full Version : Uk children living in severe poverty !
Alice in Blunderland
26-Jan-10, 10:11
It seems that according to reports the number of children living in severe poverty is on the rise.
At the end of 2008 it was around 13% of Uk children who were living in sever poverty, is this acceptable for a developed country such as ours ?
The percentage varies slightly across the UK. In Northern Ireland, 8% of children are extremely poor. In Scotland it is 9% while in England and Wales it is 13% - a figure pushed up by the situation in London where 19% of youngsters live in severe poverty.
Its heartbreaking to think that around this country some children do not even have a coat for the winter.
My dad jokes about when in his day it was first up best dressed that could possibly be the case for some children in the UK today.
It would seem that despite the massive increase in benefits and support being announced some families are still finding it hard, time for a rethink I would say.
northener
26-Jan-10, 10:25
Alice, does it say how 'poverty' or 'severe poverty' are defined?
I've never seen what criteria are set to define these statements and have always wondered how they do it. Surely it cannot be based on just an income basis?
Any ideas?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8095775.stm
This from June 2009 mentions some of the indicators, northener. It's relative rather than absolute poverty and the key thing does appear to be income -less than 60% of median income in the UK is defined as 'poverty', tho' there are a number of other indicators, which pretty much stem from a very low income.
I know that some parents manage miracles on very little money, while others can be feckless with much more, but it's what the families have to start with that's considered here, before they look at what lack of money can mean for the kids in terms of daily life.
'Severe' poverty - well, apart from it being worse than 'poverty', I don't know, but I've found this, which should provide the definition. (I'll read through it when I've more time).
http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/en/docs/sevchildpovuk.pdf
Alice in Blunderland
26-Jan-10, 10:59
It doesnt say I have tried to find this one out myself.
One instance I found was where the children didnt get a family holiday :eek: As kids a family holiday was a luxury as my parents had it quite tough.
My kids do not get a family holiday every year........................ :confused
I am genuinely interested in how they define poverty, extreme poverty and any other category that they may have.
Alice in Blunderland
26-Jan-10, 11:02
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8095775.stm
This from June 2009 mentions some of the indicators, northener. It's relative rather than absolute poverty and the key thing does appear to be income -less than 60% of median income in the UK is defined as 'poverty', tho' there are a number of other indicators, which pretty much stem from a very low income.
I know that some parents manage miracles on very little money, while others can be feckless with much more, but it's what the families have to start with that's considered here, before they look at what lack of money can mean for the kids in terms of daily life.
'Severe' poverty - well, apart from it being worse than 'poverty', I don't know, but I've found this, which should provide the definition. (I'll read through it when I've more time).
http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/en/docs/sevchildpovuk.pdf
Thanks Angela saved me some time there :D
These Children will be from families from the non working underclass who what money they do have will be spent on booze, fags and drugs.
We have more of a social poverty problem in this country as opposed to a straight monetary one.
These Children will be from families from the non working underclass who what money they do have will be spent on booze, fags and drugs.
We have more of a social poverty problem in this country as opposed to a straight monetary one.
Very true.
Just had a quick skim through the StC publication, some interesting reference points for poverty.
I worked for a while in social housing and had some first hand experience of these kinds of situations.
While there are a great many parents out there doing the damn best they can with very little, there are far more who are pretty much abusing the kids either directly for enhanced benefits / housing or indirectly by not giving a ferrets bottom about them and drinking and smoking the benefits.
I don't know what the answer is, stopping some people from breeding is certainly one!
Very true.
Just had a quick skim through the StC publication, some interesting reference points for poverty.
I worked for a while in social housing and had some first hand experience of these kinds of situations.
While there are a great many parents out there doing the damn best they can with very little, there are far more who are pretty much abusing the kids either directly for enhanced benefits / housing or indirectly by not giving a ferrets bottom about them and drinking and smoking the benefits.
I don't know what the answer is, stopping some people from breeding is certainly one!
Here, here, start with a programme of sterilisation for munters ( I would be first in line but realising my social obligation I didn’t breed).
Here, here, start with a programme of sterilisation for munters ( I would be first in line but realising my social obligation I didn’t breed).
Good egg, that's the spirit!
Try th Joseph Rowntree foundation for info. Sorry don't have time to google a link!
Thing is if we cut benefits you can be damn sure it will impact the genuine people who for whatever reason need it at the time just to free up more money for the State to pay for the long term self unemployed!!
Boozeburglar
26-Jan-10, 17:08
I think comprehensive and efficient means testing would yield rewards.
I think comprehensive and efficient means testing would yield rewards.
There is a logic to that and it may work it some cases, but in the real long term benefit scroungers that have kids it's not going to be able to do much.
They'll prove beyond doubt they need it and short of putting the kids in a home how can you reduce what they get.
I have pondered the idea of paying the majority of benefits in the way of supermarket tokens or luncheon vouchers with restrictions on beer n fags. Ideally forcing the a portion to be spent on decent food etc. but then these will only get traded with the druggies etc. and the kids will get less put towards them.
Just look at the TV any night of the week and you will see severe poverty but none of it is in this country. If we have severe poverty I just do not know how we could describe the conditions that some people on the earth have to endure.
Just look at the TV any night of the week and you will see severe poverty but none of it is in this country. If we have severe poverty I just do not know how we could describe the conditions that some people on the earth have to endure.
Best answer so far cattach.
Just look at the TV any night of the week and you will see severe poverty but none of it is in this country. If we have severe poverty I just do not know how we could describe the conditions that some people on the earth have to endure.
Yeah but at least in the third world they can be Soldiers at like 8 years old, the Armed Forces is a great career.
I would of given my back teeth to be able to wield an AK-47 at 9 years old!
No qualifications needed, they recruit you! Here you have to take some silly exam and if you fail you don't get in.
Yeah but at least in the third world they can be Soldiers at like 8 years old, the Armed Forces is a great career.
I would of given my back teeth to be able to wield an AK-47 at 9 years old!
No qualifications needed, they recruit you! Here you have to take some silly exam and if you fail you don't get in.
Great pity that some people make a serious topic degenerate into this sort of thing. When I look at some of the images of children haedly able to walk, with blotted stomachs and covered in flies I realise how lucky I am and how in this country proverty is really not comparable to that.
There is a logic to that and it may work it some cases, but in the real long term benefit scroungers that have kids it's not going to be able to do much.
They'll prove beyond doubt they need it and short of putting the kids in a home how can you reduce what they get.
I have pondered the idea of paying the majority of benefits in the way of supermarket tokens or luncheon vouchers with restrictions on beer n fags. Ideally forcing the a portion to be spent on decent food etc. but then these will only get traded with the druggies etc. and the kids will get less put towards them.
Im a long term benefit parent with kids,one who is autistic,believe me i would love to work.Im on call 24hrs a day to my sons needs,cleaning up the mess and dealing with situations that most people would get stressed out at!
The way this post has gone disgusts me,its a dig at the non working for one reason or another and makes me wonder why i come on the org.Every post that mentions anyone in hardship drags people like me through the mud.The few who do scrounge wouldnt even be bothered by these posts!!!
The real poverty is in many other countries,and its not just kids of unemployed that are in poverty.
Great pity that some people make a serious topic degenerate into this sort of thing. When I look at some of the images of children haedly able to walk, with blotted stomachs and covered in flies I realise how lucky I am and how in this country proverty is really not comparable to that.
Yeah well but sometimes you have to make light of things just to get through this world.
Either way I still stand by my below statement -
"I would of given my back teeth to be able to wield an AK-47 at 9 years old!"
Im a long term benefit parent with kids,one who is autistic,believe me i would love to work.Im on call 24hrs a day to my sons needs,cleaning up the mess and dealing with situations that most people would get stressed out at!
The way this post has gone disgusts me,its a dig at the non working for one reason or another and makes me wonder why i come on the org.Every post that mentions anyone in hardship drags people like me through the mud.The few who do scrounge wouldnt even be bothered by these posts!!!
The real poverty is in many other countries,and its not just kids of unemployed that are in poverty.
Yeah and many of those impoverished people in those other countries would give everything to be able to live in a country like this with free Universal Education, Health care and the opportunity to advance and succeed in life
But we have a class of people in this country who rather than work to earn think the state should provide. And the State has no money, the money it has comes from the working taxpayer.
And i'm on about those that choose to be unemployed not people who are forced to be through circumstances.. which is what the welfare State was set up for.
Im a long term benefit parent with kids,one who is autistic,believe me i would love to work.Im on call 24hrs a day to my sons needs,cleaning up the mess and dealing with situations that most people would get stressed out at!
The way this post has gone disgusts me,its a dig at the non working for one reason or another and makes me wonder why i come on the org.Every post that mentions anyone in hardship drags people like me through the mud.The few who do scrounge wouldnt even be bothered by these posts!!!
The real poverty is in many other countries,and its not just kids of unemployed that are in poverty.
chaz, please look back at my earlier post:
there are a great many parents out there doing the damn best they can with very littleMy points are aimed at those who choose not to work purely because it is easier to sit back and let people pay for them, and those who use (abuse) children by deliberately having them to assist in their housing and benefits.
The ones who are scrounging are too busy down the bookies or in the boozer to give a damn about the .org or their kids.
And if there was a way to nail these scroungers then maybe that would free up finances to get better help and assistance for people in your predicament.
I am aware that up here there is little help and support for people with autism, or looking after autistic people.
But if you were an alcy or druggy there'd be plenty of cash and "support" for you!
As has been the problem for years, those that do their damnedest to help themselves and family get zero support and help whilst the wasters who want a free ride get it, time and time again.
As for comparing poverty in the UK to that of some countries in the world, well, we can't. We truly don't know were born here.
cuddlepop
27-Jan-10, 17:07
Im a long term benefit parent with kids,one who is autistic,believe me i would love to work.Im on call 24hrs a day to my sons needs,cleaning up the mess and dealing with situations that most people would get stressed out at!
The way this post has gone disgusts me,its a dig at the non working for one reason or another and makes me wonder why i come on the org.Every post that mentions anyone in hardship drags people like me through the mud.The few who do scrounge wouldnt even be bothered by these posts!!!
The real poverty is in many other countries,and its not just kids of unemployed that are in poverty.
Chaz by staying at home and looking after your son your saving the government thousands of pounds a week.What your paid in carers allowence is a joke.
Grow a very thick skin as your going to need it.People unless they walk your walk just havent a clue.:D....I know your indespensable though.:D
The Angel Of Death
27-Jan-10, 17:12
Yeah and many of those impoverished people in those other countries would give everything to be able to live in a country like this with free Universal Education, Health care and the opportunity to advance and succeed in life
But we have a class of people in this country who rather than work to earn think the state should provide. And the State has no money, the money it has comes from the working taxpayer.
And i'm on about those that choose to be unemployed not people who are forced to be through circumstances.. which is what the welfare State was set up for.
Exactly people who are unemployed tent to try and get employed as soon as possible the point made here are the likes who leave school and just sign on and make no effort to get a job etc and just sit with there hand out all the time while the rest of us have to work to earn a crust
Chaz is an exception to the rule S/He isnt unemployed by choice by all accounts and should be getting a care allowance etc but knowing the screwed up way the system is at the moment is prob not getting anything towards caring for there child full time
cuddlepop
27-Jan-10, 17:16
Chaz is an exception to the rule S/He isnt unemployed by choice by all accounts and should be getting a care allowance etc but knowing the screwed up way the system is at the moment is prob not getting anything towards caring for there child full time
Yip its £50.50 a week and your paid it once even if you have two caring commitments.:mad:
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oldmarine
27-Jan-10, 18:07
It seems that according to reports the number of children living in severe poverty is on the rise.
At the end of 2008 it was around 13% of Uk children who were living in sever poverty, is this acceptable for a developed country such as ours ?
The percentage varies slightly across the UK. In Northern Ireland, 8% of children are extremely poor. In Scotland it is 9% while in England and Wales it is 13% - a figure pushed up by the situation in London where 19% of youngsters live in severe poverty.
Its heartbreaking to think that around this country some children do not even have a coat for the winter.
My dad jokes about when in his day it was first up best dressed that could possibly be the case for some children in the UK today.
It would seem that despite the massive increase in benefits and support being announced some families are still finding it hard, time for a rethink I would say.
It can't be as bad as what the children in Haiti are exeriencing.
northener
27-Jan-10, 18:35
It can't be as bad as what the children in Haiti are exeriencing.
Absolutely, Leatherneck. poverty is a relative concept.
I've only skimmed through the reoprt linked to in this thread, but it is certainly interesting reading.
Interesting to note that some of the questions/criteria in the survey include the ability to have a holiday away once a year, whether they have pocket money of not and whether they own a bicycle or any sports equipment.
A knee-jerk reaction would be very easy for me to come up with based upon those snippets, but like I said, it's a lot more in depth than that.
Boozeburglar
27-Jan-10, 18:52
It is always possible to look at other groups in other places and find people worse off.
Does that mean we do not have child poverty, even if it is 'relative'?
There are kids living in conditions like those being suffered in Haiti all over the world, at any given time.
Does that mean we should not address poverty here, until we have addressed it all over the world?
roadbowler
27-Jan-10, 19:12
to answer alices' original question of it being acceptable in a developed country such as ours, i think it has to be acceptable or we need to rethink our entire economic system. Capitalism creates poverty not only here but in all the other countries we pillage resources and cheap labour from. Poverty is a necessary by-product of capitalism. As old marine quite rightly points out, look at haiti. 95 years of oppression by the united states gives you results like the state of haiti. Haiti has more millionaires than any other caribbean country as well mind. It's a big country for a caribbean island, (especially for sharing one) and is extremely rich in natural resources including precious metals, gems, uranium and oil! Besides if america is so up on helping haiti, why haven't they offered up accomodation in one of the only complex of buildings still standing in port au prince? The us embassy? It's HUGE! Like most of the islands in that region it has a native population living in shanties on the hillside and small sections usually outside cities built up with massive resorts, mansions where all the rich westerners live and holiday. Same as lots of middle eastern countries. The link angela gave made me chuckle at what they think is deemed poverty. At least one holiday a year, for at least a week? Lol what's this all about? Have to make at least £361 a week? I mean it's all relative isn't it? One persons idea of luxury or poverty might be completely different than someone elses.
to answer alices' original question of it being acceptable in a developed country such as ours, i think it has to be acceptable or we need to rethink our entire economic system. Capitalism creates poverty not only here but in all the other countries we pillage resources and cheap labour from. Poverty is a necessary by-product of capitalism. As old marine quite rightly points out, look at haiti. 95 years of oppression by the united states gives you results like the state of haiti. Haiti has more millionaires than any other caribbean country as well mind. It's a big country for a caribbean island, (especially for sharing one) and is extremely rich in natural resources including precious metals, gems, uranium and oil! Besides if america is so up on helping haiti, why haven't they offered up accomodation in one of the only complex of buildings still standing in port au prince? The us embassy? It's HUGE! Like most of the islands in that region it has a native population living in shanties on the hillside and small sections usually outside cities built up with massive resorts, mansions where all the rich westerners live and holiday. Same as lots of middle eastern countries. The link angela gave made me chuckle at what they think is deemed poverty. At least one holiday a year, for at least a week? Lol what's this all about? Have to make at least £361 a week? I mean it's all relative isn't it? One persons idea of luxury or poverty might be completely different than someone elses.
Some intresting points, it always makes me laugh how people get so pent up about the third world and aid when the reason they are in that state is directly because of our own greed and demand for the majority of the worlds resources for such a small percent of the population. Our aid packages are just the crap food we dont want, we send them castoff clothes that are made through cheap labour in some other third world country... the irony is just unbelievable!
Capitlism on a country level like the UK means the majority of the wealth is held by only around say 10% of the population, and the rule is exactly the same on a global scale but this time we are suddenly elevated into the rich bracket. Our own povery is pretty much self inflicted through social systems rather than hard cold poverty.
African countries dont grow there food to feed thier people, thier rulers grow food to feed us because in turn we give that small majority lots of money.
Now im no Socialist or Communist, I believe to generate wealth Capitalism is the best way but im mearly pointing out that we surround ourself in so much bulls*it when it comes to the third world.
It's a hard cold world really and it's survival of the fittest and you should thank god you were born in the richest small percent of this world cos the rest of the poor s*ds in this world have neither freedom nor money and it is all to fuel our self obsessed lifestyles.
Some intresting points, it always makes me laugh how people get so pent up about the third world and aid when the reason they are in that state is directly because of our own greed and demand for the majority of the worlds resources for such a small percent of the population. Our aid packages are just the crap food we dont want, we send them castoff clothes that are made through cheap labour in some other third world country... the irony is just unbelievable!
Capitlism on a country level like the UK means the majority of the wealth is held by only around say 10% of the population, and the rule is exactly the same on a global scale but this time we are suddenly elevated into the rich bracket. Our own povery is pretty much self inflicted through social systems rather than hard cold poverty.
African countries dont grow there food to feed thier people, thier rulers grow food to feed us because in turn we give that small majority lots of money.
Now im no Socialist or Communist, I believe to generate wealth Capitalism is the best way but im mearly pointing out that we surround ourself in so much bulls*it when it comes to the third world.
It's a hard cold world really and it's survival of the fittest and you should thank god you were born in the richest small percent of this world cos the rest of the poor s*ds in this world have neither freedom nor money and it is all to fuel our self obsessed lifestyles.
Talking Sense-no matter how poor you are here you could be a lot poorer elswhere. Even to have the opportunity of a basic education and a basic right to NHS treatment (no matter how much these things are complained about) makes you one of the richest people in the world.
I for one think we should reflect on that a little-then get back to complaining!
ShelleyCowie
28-Jan-10, 00:57
I have had a few digs and snipes from people because i dont work, my OH works a full time job though and earns enough so that i didnt have to go back to work. I was going to go back to work this year but cant....so tuff to the people who think everyone should be working :roll:
Anyways..........back to the poverty. Its sad to read this kind of thing, yes the kids in Haiti must be having a hellish time, any child without food, clean water and shelter will be havin a hard time. But i hate to say this....we cant help them all. We can try, with donations to charities and raising money for them.
That probably wont sound right to most so sorry if anything sounds awful in that....im useless with words as most already know
Tom Cornwall
29-Jan-10, 14:14
Just look at the TV any night of the week and you will see severe poverty but none of it is in this country. If we have severe poverty I just do not know how we could describe the conditions that some people on the earth have to endure.
Cattach, I think you're right....poverty here probably means that the kids don't have an x-box..or something similar
tonkatojo
29-Jan-10, 14:38
Cattach, I think you're right....poverty here probably means that the kids don't have an x-box..or something similar
I know when I was a young bairn and primary school kid I wore second hand clothes, had a raggy arse in my pants, cardboard sole to cover the hole in my shoe. And that wasn't that long ago, well 5 decades mebe LOL. I read if they havn't got above £35 a day for a family to live off that's poverty, yeah.
These Children will be from families from the non working underclass who what money they do have will be spent on booze, fags and drugs.
We have more of a social poverty problem in this country as opposed to a straight monetary one.
this may well be true in many cases, but there are also many genuine cases who do very well on very little. the problem is that the scroungers spoil it for those who genuinely could do with a bit of extra help.
I know when I was a young bairn and primary school kid I wore second hand clothes, had a raggy arse in my pants, cardboard sole to cover the hole in my shoe. And that wasn't that long ago, well 5 decades mebe LOL. I read if they havn't got above £35 a day for a family to live off that's poverty, yeah.
the thing is, when everyone else is in the same boat, it doesn't affect you as a child. My family would have been classed as well below the poverty level when I was a child, yet i never remember being hungry.
My parents said we were well off compared to how they had it.
It's all relevant - no one wants their kids to be 'different' because they have to wear old clothes and can't go to a birthday party because mam can't afford to buy a present.
Also a lot of skills have been lost. my mother used to unravel old jumpers to knit new, cut down old coats and redesign, grow our own vegetables in the garden. How many people can do that now a days?
I have had a few digs and snipes from people because i dont work, my OH works a full time job though and earns enough so that i didnt have to go back to work. I was going to go back to work this year but cant....so tuff to the people who think everyone should be working :roll:
Anyways..........back to the poverty. Its sad to read this kind of thing, yes the kids in Haiti must be having a hellish time, any child without food, clean water and shelter will be havin a hard time. But i hate to say this....we cant help them all. We can try, with donations to charities and raising money for them.
That probably wont sound right to most so sorry if anything sounds awful in that....im useless with words as most already know
Hey - stuff them that give you a hard time. The hardest job in the world is bringing up well adjusted kids in this modern climate, and the more mums who stay at home the more chance there is of that!
the thing is, when everyone else is in the same boat, it doesn't affect you as a child. My family would have been classed as well below the poverty level when I was a child, yet i never remember being hungry.
My parents said we were well off compared to how they had it.
It's all relevant - no one wants their kids to be 'different' because they have to wear old clothes and can't go to a birthday party because mam can't afford to buy a present.
Also a lot of skills have been lost. my mother used to unravel old jumpers to knit new, cut down old coats and redesign, grow our own vegetables in the garden. How many people can do that now a days?
I agree, katarina, it's relative to other people.
Kids living in the 21st century in the UK can't be fairly compared to children living in Haiti or indeed to children living in this country say 50 years ago. It comes down to whether or not they're getting a fair start in life, to prepare them for living in the here and now.
I was reading the other day that the gap between rich and poor in the UK is increasing.
I grew up in the 50s/60s not knowing that we were fairly poor until I got a scholarship to a 'posh' school and then my word, I felt like a social outcast :mad: - but education was seen as the traditional way of bettering yourself then and that was what my widowed mother was determined I would do!
Kids now are far more aware of what other people have - they only have to watch the telly - but there is often no clear route out of poverty and deprivation for them. It's not their fault they're born into poverty -and sometimes it's more that they are impoverished in ways other than the obvious financial one. A lot depends on whether their parents and their teachers have any realistic hope and belief that the children can grow up to have better lives.
I have had a few digs and snipes from people because i dont work, my OH works a full time job though and earns enough so that i didnt have to go back to work. I was going to go back to work this year but cant....so tuff to the people who think everyone should be working :roll:
Anyways..........back to the poverty. Its sad to read this kind of thing, yes the kids in Haiti must be having a hellish time, any child without food, clean water and shelter will be havin a hard time. But i hate to say this....we cant help them all. We can try, with donations to charities and raising money for them.
That probably wont sound right to most so sorry if anything sounds awful in that....im useless with words as most already know
Shelley, I agree with you -we can't help everyone. :(
I don't see why you should be working if you can manage on your OH's pay. Looking after your wee boy is the most important job you could be doing, imo, and it's not an easy one either!
ShelleyCowie
29-Jan-10, 16:03
Hey - stuff them that give you a hard time. The hardest job in the world is bringing up well adjusted kids in this modern climate, and the more mums who stay at home the more chance there is of that!
Shelley, I agree with you -we can't help everyone. :(
I don't see why you should be working if you can manage on your OH's pay. Looking after your wee boy is the most important job you could be doing, imo, and it's not an easy one either!
Thanks both! :)
Yes we manage just fine on my OH's pay. We make budget cuts where we have to. If people want to judge me because i dont work then thats fine! But i can tell them absolutely anything about my son. I can tell dates of each achievement he made.
And if i could go back to work then i would not have minded part time. But i wont...so tuff! Lol :lol:
northener
29-Jan-10, 16:43
...... Capitalism creates poverty not only here but in all the other countries we pillage resources and cheap labour from. Poverty is a necessary by-product of capitalism. ......
Poverty crosses political and idealogical lines with the same ease as a bird flying over a hill.
Don't think for one minute that, say, Communism means 'fair for all', some of the most abject poverty on the planet has taken place under Communist regimes or ideology.
danc1ngwitch
29-Jan-10, 17:04
Children have the right:
To be treated with respect
To be treated kindly
To be listened to
To be helped
To be happy
To feel wanted
To be safe
To be special
To be treated equally
How much money do you need for this?
andrew.bowles30
29-Jan-10, 17:06
we are very good t giving to other countrys but hide what is happing t home the govement should help more at home instead we give money we do not have,we also have charity shops that get cloths given then sell at stupid prices so not all that cheaper to buy than tescos or premark
to start to look after our own would meen less aid which we need to do as we dont get money from other counrtys to help us :roll:
Children have the right:
To be treated with respect
To be treated kindly
To be listened to
To be helped
To be happy
To feel wanted
To be safe
To be special
To be treated equally
How much money do you need for this?
Children also have the right:
To be fed.
To be clothed.
To be kept warm.
Unfortunately, all three take money.
ShelleyCowie
29-Jan-10, 18:12
Children also have the right:
To be fed.
To be clothed.
To be kept warm.
Unfortunately, all three take money.
Thats what i was thinking too. yes we can live off of the value foods you get now, but its still money.
I do not grudge paying for food so the kids can eat. the house must be warm, clothes must be bought. And again...i dont grudge any of it!
There are still people with no home, people who cant afford new shoes or new clothes, who cant pay their electricity bills, elderly people, sick people, single parents. For the vast majority of unemployed people being out of work is temporary. They will find a job and begin earning again. For many people on other benefits or for the elderly this is it, they will struggle to get out of poverty and may never free themselves from the trap they are in.
Often on threads like this people go on about the "majority" being scroungers and willing to sit on the dole forever and no surprise its here again. I checked and the latest figures i can find (Dec 2009 - highland.gov.uk) show that in Wick there are 75 people who are long term unemplyed and in Thurso 50. Thats 1.88% of the population in Wick and and 1.16% of the population in Thurso. Thats hardly showing a vast number of people who want to be unemployed and dont care or arent trying to find work. Some of these people will have genuine reasons why they are long term unemployed so the figures showing "scroungers" or "layabouts" is likely to be less than those i have quoted. Other people not working are likely to be single parents - we seem divided about whether its best to be working or not as a single parent. If its ok for one half of a couple to be at home cos they can manage on one wage, why are single parents often slagged off for staying at home with THEIR children. Surely as a single parent its more important to be there for your children as there is only you - not less important.
Others will be getting Employment support allowance or sickness benefit. Are we saying that these people are scroungers? And if so on what evidence are we basing this charge. People in these groups are more likely to be in poverty than any others, fuel costs, transport costs, living costs may be high and leave less money for food or clothing. Your housing is likely to be of a lower standard and there is a link between poor housing and bad health which is why in areas of housing deprivation there is often a large percentage of people getting sickness benefits.
I dont have the answer but surely we can stop turning our nose up at others misfortunes as a start and maybe trying to help and support people out of this sort of situation is better than punishing them for being in it by cutting benefits or placing sanctions on them.
Boozeburglar
30-Jan-10, 01:59
Great post S.
I dont have the answer but surely we can stop turning our nose up at others misfortunes as a start and maybe trying to help and support people out of this sort of situation is better than punishing them for being in it by cutting benefits or placing sanctions on them.
I can't speak specifically about Wick & Thurso, but in the time I spent in the public sector working in social housing, the one thing I can say is throwing more money at it isn't going to make it any better.
One of the issues that the statistics don't show are the "single" parents who have had a child deliberately to gain housing and more benefits and then suddenly become a couple, until an officer visits.
I don't doubt there are many genuine cases, but every one I have experienced, the genuine ones are desperately trying to help themselves and trying to improve the situation.
Far too many sit there with a fag hanging out of their mouth, living in squalor through choice, and then tell you their rights and what they are entitled too.
And it is the children that suffer the most through all of this.
It always confused me that while dealing with these types of people that while living in "poverty" they always seemed to be wearing the latest designer clothes, latest mobile (usually stuck to their ear) and aforementioned ciggy puffin' from lips. Oh and usually wearing enough gold to bail out the banks.
And when you try and make an appointment to see them they are busy!!!!
Children have the right:
To be treated with respect
To be treated kindly
To be listened to
To be helped
To be happy
To feel wanted
To be safe
To be special
To be treated equally
How much money do you need for this?
One of the most important things you can do for a child is read him/her a bedtime story every night and that needn't cost anything. :)
But it does cost quite a lot of money to feed and clothe a child and keep your home warm.
It's very hard to give your children all the attention you'd like to, and make them feel safe and listened to when you're worried sick about how you're going to pay the bills or afford a new pair of shoes when they grow out of the ones they've got. If you're living in poverty compared to your child's school friends, it's difficult if not impossible to make your child feel reasonably normal, which all children want to feel, let alone 'equal' or 'special'.
It must be very hard too not to just give up hope if you live in a really deprived area of bad housing and poor schools and there seems to be no way out. :(
to answer alices' original question of it being acceptable in a developed country such as ours, i think it has to be acceptable or we need to rethink our entire economic system. Capitalism creates poverty not only here but in all the other countries we pillage resources and cheap labour from. Poverty is a necessary by-product of capitalism. As old marine quite rightly points out, look at haiti. 95 years of oppression by the united states gives you results like the state of haiti. Haiti has more millionaires than any other caribbean country as well mind. It's a big country for a caribbean island, (especially for sharing one) and is extremely rich in natural resources including precious metals, gems, uranium and oil! Besides if america is so up on helping haiti, why haven't they offered up accomodation in one of the only complex of buildings still standing in port au prince? The us embassy? It's HUGE! Like most of the islands in that region it has a native population living in shanties on the hillside and small sections usually outside cities built up with massive resorts, mansions where all the rich westerners live and holiday. Same as lots of middle eastern countries. The link angela gave made me chuckle at what they think is deemed poverty. At least one holiday a year, for at least a week? Lol what's this all about? Have to make at least £361 a week? I mean it's all relative isn't it? One persons idea of luxury or poverty might be completely different than someone elses.
Capitalism creates poverty not only here but in all the other countries we pillage resources and cheap labour from. Poverty is a necessary by-product of capitalism. look at haiti. 95 years of oppression by the united states gives you results like the state of haiti.
What's this; blame capitalism? knock the USA? - you been to Cuba? heard of papa doc?
or how about this Top 50 poorest counties:
Afghanistan, Angola, Bangladesh, Benin, Bhutan, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Kiribati, Laos, Lesotho, Liberia, Madagascar, Malawi, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nepal, Niger, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé and Príncipe, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Sudan, East Timor, Togo, Tuvalu, Uganda, Tanzania, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia..
Seems to me you just don't know when you're well off - fair enough WE have our problems, but having personally lived/worked/visited a great many countries around the world, I thank god (small g) I live here...
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