View Full Version : A rather undignified end for a fox. (Not for the Squeamish)
What does stringing up a dead fox by a main road for young children to see actually achieve?
porshiepoo
21-Jan-10, 16:32
That's awful.
I'd never actually come across this practice until we moved up here. I think it's supposed to have some effect on other predators but not really the way to go about it in my opinion.
I understand farmers protecting their investments but this is a sick way to do it, especially as I've seen some of the farmers in Caithness treat that same stock with what I would consider cruelty.
Barbaric.
Mrs Bucket
21-Jan-10, 16:39
That's awful.
I'd never actually come across this practice until we moved up here. I think it's supposed to have some effect on other predators but not really the way to go about it in my opinion.
I understand farmers protecting their investments but this is a sick way to do it, especially as I've seen some of the farmers in Caithness treat that same stock with what I would consider cruelty.
Barbaric.
Myabe hunting with hounds and getting torn appart would ok then.
I think it would likely cause more problems like attracting scavengers including more foxes.
Westsider3
21-Jan-10, 16:55
Having seen what a fox actually does for fun this photo doesn't make me squeamish at all!!
porshiepoo
21-Jan-10, 17:01
Myabe hunting with hounds and getting torn appart would ok then.
You should get your facts right before asking me a sarcastic question like that. Fox hunting is one of the most Barbaric, selfish sports that a person could ever take part in. The penalties for being caught should be severe and I hope every participant of it gets bit by the hounds .......... at least once! [mad]
I'm not suggesting that Foxes don't need culling if there's a need for control but heaving their bodies over a fence like a trophy or a warning to other predators is not really the right thing to do either. IMO.
Besides which, I have no idea as to whether this particular Fox was killed by a farmer or hit by a car. I was just saying that SOME farmers up here do hang Fox bodies on fences.
Is it a nice sight? Nope.
Is it good for kids to see it? Nope!
Having seen what a fox actually does for fun this photo doesn't make me squeamish at all!!
Foxes don't kill for fun.
Could that fox have got caught in the fence????:roll:
Could that fox have got caught in the fence????:roll:
No, it was tied on with wire.
Lavenderblue2
21-Jan-10, 17:16
Having seen what a fox actually does for fun this photo doesn't make me squeamish at all!!
I too have seen what a fox can do - I've lost all my hens in a single afternoon. Of course I was mad at the time but I realise that this is part of nature.
Although the photo doesn't make me sqeamish as such, I don't agree with the practice of hanging the poor, beautiful animal on a fence, for whatever reason, it's not natural, it's barbaric.
the_big_mac
21-Jan-10, 17:50
Move back then.
I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of culling foxes but why hang the dead animal up like that? What purpose does it serve? I guess it might deter other foxes in the area but I would have to be convinced that was the case. Perhaps the perpetrator has some research knowledge about the way foxes think.
The only reason I can think for anyone to do this is some sort of loathsome perverted exhibitionism.
Kathy@watten
21-Jan-10, 18:10
Oh no, am going to be very un pc now...have bullet proof vest handy..... It is a fox, not a child, why does everyone put human emotional attachment to what is a killer and classed as vermin by the gamekeepers and farmers? It is a fox and probably one of many in the area, it was unlucky yes to to be caught but caught never the less and shot, it would have been dead before being hung up so no cruelty taking place. Not any worse than being dead by the road. Our kids can't be wrapped in cotton wool, and will from time to time come accross things unsavoury and this as adults gives us a chance to talk and explain the who what where and whens of stuff. I would be more concerned about my kids finding syringes or seeing human abuse than the sight of a dead fox!
buggyracer
21-Jan-10, 18:14
do i agree with culling foxes, yes.
do i agree with hanging them once culled on a fence, no.
Simple answer is foxes are culled, to protect livestock, by hanging them off a fence, not only is the person controlling the foxes showing them no respect, but they are giving a legiteamate practice a bad name by doing so, and in turn shooting themselves in the foot.
I see no real reason to do so, i know some do so to let the landowners know they have culled the problem fox, but wouldnt a simple phonecall the next day suffice? :roll:
I'm not wanting this thread to get into the rights and wrongs of pest control because I don't think this incident had anything to do with warding off further foxes. This fox was displayed conspicuously and publically to shock passers by and the neighbours of the farm and in so doing the perpetrator may have committed a breach of the peace.
changilass
21-Jan-10, 18:28
If you think that, should you not report it to the police to see what they have to say?
If, however, it is a local custom, they probably won't do owt about it.
the_big_mac
21-Jan-10, 18:34
I'm not wanting this thread to get into the rights and wrongs of pest control because I don't think this incident had anything to do with warding off further foxes. This fox was displayed conspicuously and publically to shock passers by and the neighbours of the farm and in so doing the perpetrator may have committed a breach of the peace.
Call the police then, im sure they will be delighted to hear from you.
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 18:56
What does stringing up a dead fox by a main road for young children to see actually achieve?
What does taking a picture of a dead fox strung up by a main road and posting it on a public forum for people to see actually achieve?
northener
21-Jan-10, 18:59
What does taking a picture of a dead fox strung up by a main road and posting it on a public forum for people to see actually achieve?
Er...discussion?
A breach of the Peace???? Pray tell us your logic??
One word sums it up for me. Sickening!:(
foxes cull live stock not to eat,, do not cull one, but they cull as many as possible it is nature as we say but it is the farmers who is sufferin losin live stock and money ,,they are beautiful creatures to some people and not to others i have no problem seein them been shot or killed or hung my daughter saw them and asked me why they hang and shoot them so told her the rights and wrongs and she under stood after that
... Our kids can't be wrapped in cotton wool, and will from time to time come accross things unsavoury and this as adults gives us a chance to talk and explain the who what where and whens of stuff.
Actions speak louder than words, and "adults" would not go around stringing up dead animals. Teach you children by example.
Move back then.
What a fine contribution to the discussion.
Who are you telling to "move back" and where are you telling them to "move back" to?
i agree with kathy.. kids are too proctected now adays.. foxes are not endagered, they are a menace to farmers.. and if by hanging them up it deters other foxes then all the better.. i would rather hang a dead one up and deter others.. than shooting them left right and center until they are endangered. its just another thing we do in life to survive. a farmers life is very hard, and every chicken and livestock count.. so if this helps our farmers im all for it..
but do have to say.. yuck would not want to be the one taking the carcass down after a while!
The only reason I can think for anyone to do this is some sort of loathsome perverted exhibitionism.
Yes, very well put.
It is a very mentally and spiritually sick person who sees any sort of necessity for this bitter, twisted obscenity.
OK I recognize the need to cull the fox population; I understand they are classed as killers and vermin. I will even go along with the need to educate children in the way things are done in the country. However does anyone know of any empirical evidence that any fox will be discouraged from an area because one is strung up so grotesquely?
Without such evidence this can only be seen as the actions of a sick mind; and what does this teach children?
If it’s a Caithness custom it’s time it was consigned to history, like bear baiting, cock fighting and burning witches.
Has this not been flogged to death on the 'Farming & Crofting' Forum 6th Jan till now? http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=647946
Are you serious Rheghead?: "I'm not wanting this thread to get into the rights and wrongs of pest control because I don't think this incident had anything to do with warding off further foxes. This fox was displayed conspicuously and publically to shock passers by and the neighbours of the farm and in so doing the perpetrator may have committed a breach of the peace. "
Obviously you are well informed of country practices?:roll:
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 20:22
Er...discussion?
The subject could have been discussed perfectly adequately without posting the picture.
A number of points -
1) Hanging vermin on fences is a traditional way of showing the 'boss' the pest controller is doing his job.
2) If its by the side of a road and the catcher was on foot its more convenient to pick up later (I've even seen this done with deer). Later does not mean the same day - it could be days afterwards.
3) Hanging on a fence is a cleaner way to dispose of a body without polluting water courses etc. or store it until collected.
4) Hanging on a fence makes it easier to find for some carrion eaters.
A number of points -
1) Hanging vermin on fences is a traditional way of showing the 'boss' the pest controller is doing his job.
2) If its by the side of a road and the catcher was on foot its more convenient to pick up later (I've even seen this done with deer). Later does not mean the same day - it could be days afterwards.
3) Hanging on a fence is a cleaner way to dispose of a body without polluting water courses etc. or store it until collected.
4) Hanging on a fence makes it easier to find for some carrion eaters.
Thank you suzyq - your points make sense and I've learned a little more about 'country ways'. Maybe the pest controller could have exercised a little more discretion. :eek:
This fox was displayed conspicuously and publically to shock passers by and the neighbours of the farm and in so doing the perpetrator may have committed a breach of the peace.
Is there more to this story that we don't know about?
Cinderella's Shoe
21-Jan-10, 21:08
Well I agree with it. Its keeping down vermin and control like this has gone on for hundreds of years. If non country folks don't like it then don't take pictures of it and place it on a public forum to stir up the poo.
Its not the pest controler than needs discretion - its that photographer! Whats next - live lambing photos complete with castration?
If non country folks don't like it then don't take pictures of it and place it on a public forum to stir up the poo.
If it was not strung up there, then he could not have photographed it and no one would have been offended, right?
Well I agree with it. Its keeping down vermin and control like this has gone on for hundreds of years. If non country folks don't like it then don't take pictures of it and place it on a public forum to stir up the poo.
Its not the pest controler than needs discretion - its that photographer! Whats next - live lambing photos complete with castration?
Would it have been acceptable in your eyes if I had posted the same photo but with the tone of the thread espousing the virtue of preserving local tradition?
the_big_mac
21-Jan-10, 21:15
Well I agree with it. Its keeping down vermin and control like this has gone on for hundreds of years. If non country folks don't like it then don't take pictures of it and place it on a public forum to stir up the poo.
Its not the pest controler than needs discretion - its that photographer! Whats next - live lambing photos complete with castration?
Jeez, dont tell the city folk about that! They'll march on parliament!
Cinderella's Shoe
21-Jan-10, 21:20
How close is the fox carcass to a main road?
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 21:37
Would it have been acceptable in your eyes if I had posted the same photo but with the tone of the thread espousing the virtue of preserving local tradition?
Why post pictures of dead animals at all? You could quite easily have started a thread on the subject without posting a picture that you knew full well would offend people.
Cinderella's Shoe
21-Jan-10, 21:44
Lets get one thing straight. I'm not offended by the carcass. Its not the "undignified end" claimed as it would have been shot quickly and cleanly. What is undignified is displaying the photo to those who may not be used to country ways - including children who have access to this forum.
changilass
21-Jan-10, 21:45
Starting the thread without the picture wouldn't have had the same dramatic effect, and therefore, less folks would have joined the discussion.
But that is a different thread altogether.
Why post pictures of dead animals at all? You could quite easily have started a thread on the subject without posting a picture that you knew full well would offend people.
Your question can be reworded: 'Why string up dead animals in public at all? You could quite easily have disposed of the fox without doing what you knew full well would offend people.'
Which gets us back to Rheghead's original query: "What does stringing up a dead fox by a main road for young children to see actually achieve?"
Why post pictures of dead animals at all? You could quite easily have started a thread on the subject without posting a picture that you knew full well would offend people.
I agree with J C Denton on this, i do not think it necessary for you to have posted the picture to have the discussion and think it is quiet sick to have done so. Why is it ok for you to post a picture of a dead animal?
Your question can be reworded: 'Why string up dead animals in public at all? You could quite easily have disposed of the fox without doing what you knew full well would offend people.'
Which gets us back to Rheghead's original query: "What does stringing up a dead fox by a main road for young children to see actually achieve?"
And what about young children who may have access to Caithness.org or can see their parents viewing this forum message and picture? Unlikely perhaps but surely it is the same point, why expose young children or people at all to these kind of images.
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 21:48
Your question can be reworded: 'Why string up dead animals in public at all? You could quite easily have disposed of the fox without doing what you knew full well would offend people.'
Which gets us back to Rheghead's original query: "What does stringing up a dead fox by a main road for young children to see actually achieve?"
No, it can't. Most people on here wouldn't have seen that fox at all had Rheghead not posted it. The fact that someone has displayed it in public doesn't, by extension, make it right for someone else to take a picture of that and post it on a public forum.
Cinderella's Shoe
21-Jan-10, 21:55
No, it can't. Most people on here wouldn't have seen that fox at all had Rheghead not posted it. The fact that someone has displayed it in public doesn't, by extension, make it right for someone else to take a picture of that and post it on a public forum.
I completely agree.
And just how far is it from a main road?
No, it can't. Most people on here wouldn't have seen that fox at all had Rheghead not posted it. The fact that someone has displayed it in public doesn't, by extension, make it right for someone else to take a picture of that and post it on a public forum.
If you agree that it was repulsive for public viewing then I'd like to see comments from you that supports that view.
@ cinders It is right on the road by the width of a verge.
Oh no, am going to be very un pc now...have bullet proof vest handy..... It is a fox, not a child, why does everyone put human emotional attachment to what is a killer and classed as vermin by the gamekeepers and farmers? It is a fox and probably one of many in the area, it was unlucky yes to to be caught but caught never the less and shot, it would have been dead before being hung up so no cruelty taking place. Not any worse than being dead by the road. Our kids can't be wrapped in cotton wool, and will from time to time come accross things unsavoury and this as adults gives us a chance to talk and explain the who what where and whens of stuff. I would be more concerned about my kids finding syringes or seeing human abuse than the sight of a dead fox!
I agree with you that children should not be wrapped up in cotton wool. Children need to see the dangers, harsh sides of life, the worst in some people and they need to be shown just how much human nature is cruel and harsh. As adults it is our responsibilty that they learn this. Obviously we'd never put our kids in serious danger (Falling out of a tree or falling of something when they're not listening does not really class as serious danger comapred to this) Children need to experience risks to find out how far they can go and how to toe the line to stay alive and well. Children also have to learn that human nature is not pretty all the time and if to learn that they were exposed to the horrible sight of a beautiful animal tied like that then so be it. It would make them question why the fox was there and why the farmer has done it.
Could that fox have got caught in the fence????
Come on :roll:
You should get your facts right before asking me a sarcastic question like that. Fox hunting is one of the most Barbaric, selfish sports that a person could ever take part in. The penalties for being caught should be severe and I hope every participant of it gets bit by the hounds .......... at least once!
I'm not suggesting that Foxes don't need culling if there's a need for control but heaving their bodies over a fence like a trophy or a warning to other predators is not really the right thing to do either. IMO.
Besides which, I have no idea as to whether this particular Fox was killed by a farmer or hit by a car. I was just saying that SOME farmers up here do hang Fox bodies on fences.
Is it a nice sight? Nope.
Is it good for kids to see it? Nope!
That's awful.
I'd never actually come across this practice until we moved up here. I think it's supposed to have some effect on other predators but not really the way to go about it in my opinion.
I understand farmers protecting their investments but this is a sick way to do it, especially as I've seen some of the farmers in Caithness treat that same stock with what I would consider cruelty.
Barbaric.
Well said, you took the words out of my mouth.
The cruelty that animals recieve in their short lives in battery farms are the main reason why i only buy eggs from free range hens. I will not touch any from battrey farms. Animals should be allowed to live their lives happily instead of being just objects of use to then people rearing them.
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 22:03
If you agree that it was repulsive for public viewing then I'd like to see comments from you that supports that view.
And I'd like to see an explanation from you as to why you think it's acceptable, right and proper to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum, knowing full well that people would find it upsetting and/or offensive.
And I'd like to see an explanation from you as to why you think it's acceptable, right and proper to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum, knowing full well that people would find it upsetting and/or offensive.
Because non-exposure of a vile practice no matter how traditional will ensure its continuation. Now can you condemn the act of stringing up dead foxes in public places?
northener
21-Jan-10, 22:20
And I'd like to see an explanation from you as to why you think it's acceptable, right and proper to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum, knowing full well that people would find it upsetting and/or offensive.
Because a picture works a damn site better than a pageful of paragraphs.
Regarding whether it's 'right and proper to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum' - have a look at this:
http://www.daylesfordorganic.com/content/ebiz/lightmaker/invt/organicporkchops/Pork_Chop.jpg
It's a bit of pig that's been hacked into pieces, does it bother you?
I'll say not, shall I?
I'm sure there are vegans and a few veggies who find this repulsive too. But I'll bet there won't be many popping up and demanding why someone has dared to post something that doesn't meet with their own particular world view.
Rheghead doesn't owe you or anyone an 'explanation', he's put up a picture of a dead animal, so have I. We can if we want. Period.
And I'd like to see an explanation from you as to why you think it's acceptable, right and proper to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum, knowing full well that people would find it upsetting and/or offensive.
What was right and proper about stringing the animal there in the first place? It certainly would not deter any other predators as the smell of the dead animal would attract them.
Instead of attacking Rheghead who was bringing to everyone who did not know this was a caithness custum, attention you should have stopped and actual thought of what he was highlighting. He warned everyone by the thread title so there goes your argument out.
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 22:21
Because non-exposure of a vile practice no matter how traditional will ensure its continuation. Now can you condemn the act of stringing up dead foxes?
By logical extension, you'd think it was fine to post pictures of female circumcision on this forum, then?
Whether I condemn the treatment of dead foxes or not is an irrelevance, frankly I'm really not that bothered about it one way or another. My point is simply that you think it's okay to knowingly post an offensive picture.
Margaret M.
21-Jan-10, 22:22
And I'd like to see an explanation from you as to why you think it's acceptable, right and proper to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum, knowing full well that people would find it upsetting and/or offensive.
I am not offended by Rheghead posting the photo but I would have been horrified to have seen this in person. I am surprised that so many see nothing wrong with stringing a fox up and displaying it in public as if killing it is an achievement worthy of public admiration. I don't care if it has been the practice in the country since the beginning of time, I think it's time for those who do this to adopt a more civilised method of disposing of foxes' carcasses.
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 22:23
Rheghead doesn't owe you or anyone an 'explanation', he's put up a picture of a dead animal, so have I. We can if we want. Period.
Why does he seem to think that I should post comments that reflect his particular view, then?
northener
21-Jan-10, 22:24
....... My point is simply that you think it's okay to knowingly post an offensive picture.
Offensive to you. Not me.
Tough.
This place does not revolve around just you.
What was right and proper about stringing the animal there in the first place? It certainly would not deter any other predators as the smell of the dead animal would attract them.
Instead of attacking Rheghead who was bringing to everyone who did not know this was a caithness custum, attention you should have stopped and actual thought of what he was highlighting. He warned everyone by the thread title so there goes your argument out.
Oh so we should not attack Rheghead, even though by what you are saying, the fact he is bringing this caithness custum as you say to our attention in a negative light, is surley attacking the people of Caithness or would you disagree?
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 22:25
Offensive to you. Not me.
Tough.
This place does not revolve around just you.
Actually, I don't find it particularly offensive. I do, however, recognise that other people may find it so - something that you seem to find difficult to comprehend.
Oh so we should not attack Rheghead, even though by what you are saying, the fact he is bringing this caithness custum as you say to our attention in a negative light, is surley attacking the people of Caithness or would you disagree?
Pray tell me what is postive about stringing a dead fox up on your fence as a trophy?
That tradition severely needs revised and the people who do it need to take a long look at why they are doing it.
Whether I condemn the treatment of dead foxes or not is an irrelevance, frankly I'm really not that bothered about it one way or another.
So why did you bother posting then if you don't find it repulsive? Trolling? :roll:
northener
21-Jan-10, 22:28
Oh so we should not attack Rheghead, even though by what you are saying, the fact he is bringing this caithness custum as you say to our attention in a negative light, is surley attacking the people of Caithness or would you disagree?
It's not a 'Caithness custom' - I've seen it all over Britain.
If you really believe that by highlighting a certain practise that is carried out in Caithness Rheghead is somehow "attacking the people of Caithness" then you need to grow up or get out more.
Or both.
changilass
21-Jan-10, 22:29
Where is Crayola when you need her??
Some seem to find it offensive, others don't and yet others find it offensive on behalf of others (I wonder if they asked if folks wanted them to be offended on their behalf)
Because a picture works a damn site better than a pageful of paragraphs.
Regarding whether it's 'right and proper to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum' - have a look at this:
It's a bit of pig that's been hacked into pieces, does it bother you?
I'll say not, shall I?
Posting a picture of a pork chop is different in my opinion! Again why is it ok to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum where it can and has caused upset. You would not like it if there was a picture of a dead person that had been hung up as a sign to warn off others (as was done in the past) would you? Why should an animal be treated any differently? It was a living thing, it should be shown respect.
It's not a 'Caithness custom' - I've seen it all over Britain.
If you really believe that by highlighting a certain practise that is carried out in Caithness Rheghead is somehow "attacking the people of Caithness" then you need to grow up or get out more.
Or both.
Hear hear!
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 22:31
So why did you bother posting then if you don't find it repulsive? Trolling? :roll:
Eh? Because I don't necessarily agree with your viewpoint I'm trolling?
Pray tell me what is postive about stringing a dead fox up on your fence as a trophy?
That tradition severely needs revised and the people who do it need to take a long look at why they are doing it.
There is nothing positive about stringing a dead fox as a trophy, i was just trying to imply how it was ok for him to have what some people may believe an attack at a group of people and not for others to have one at him.
Where is Crayola when you need her??
Some seem to find it offensive, others don't and yet others find it offensive on behalf of others (I wonder if they asked if folks wanted them to be offended on their behalf)
Start a poll Changi [lol]
northener
21-Jan-10, 22:33
Actually, I don't find it particularly offensive. I do, however, recognise that other people may find it so - something that you seem to find difficult to comprehend.
Ah, so you are here to police us!
I understand now. Thankyou for your pompous condescending remarks. It's nice to know that you are here to speak on behalf of people who haven't actually asked you to speak for them in the first place.
Posting a picture of a pork chop is different in my opinion! Again why is it ok to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum where it can and has caused upset. You would not like it if there was a picture of a dead person that had been hung up as a sign to warn off others (as was done in the past) would you? Why should an animal be treated any differently? It was a living thing, it should be shown respect.
Yes all living things need to be shown respect after they have passed not put up like a trophy for all to see. But there is alot of people that don't give a toss about animals and simple don't care.
Animals feel the same pain we do and it angers me that there are alot of people out there that don't think twice about hurting animals and treating them with such disrespect when they have died.
northener
21-Jan-10, 22:35
Posting a picture of a pork chop is different in my opinion! Again why is it ok to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum where it can and has caused upset. You would not like it if there was a picture of a dead person that had been hung up as a sign to warn off others (as was done in the past) would you? Why should an animal be treated any differently? It was a living thing, it should be shown respect.
Are you familiar with the expression "Hoisted by your own Petard"?
Yes all living things need to be shown respect after they have passed not put up like a trophy for all to see. But there is alot of people that don't give a toss about animals and simple don't care.
Animals feel the same pain we do and it angers me that there are alot of people out there that don't think twice about hurting animals and treating them with such disrespect when they have died.
I completly agree with you Vistravi
Are you familiar with the expression "Hoisted by your own Petard"?
Yes thank you i am.
Margaret M.
21-Jan-10, 22:36
Again why is it ok to post a picture of a dead animal on a public forum where it can and has caused upset.
Putting 'Not for the Squeamish' in the title should have been ample warning that the content contained therein was not a pleasant read.
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 22:38
Ah, so you are here to police us!
I understand now. Thankyou for your pompous condescending remarks. It's nice to know that you are here to speak on behalf of people who haven't actually asked you to speak for them in the first place.
If taking other peoples feelings into consideration is pompous and condescending then I am happy to be so.
Eh? Because I don't necessarily agree with your viewpoint I'm trolling?
If you had stated that you see no problem with me posting such a picture for the reasons which you genuinely believe then that would be OK by me, it would just expose your true colours for which we all try to aspire. But by attempting to distort the debate by pretending to have somebody else's values of public decency irt images of dead animals in public on the merits of me posting such a photo was trolling imo.
Ah, so you are here to police us!
I understand now. Thankyou for your pompous condescending remarks. It's nice to know that you are here to speak on behalf of people who haven't actually asked you to speak for them in the first place.
And thank you for yours, and so nice of the picture to be posted to the people on the org when we did not ask to see it in the first place. You tell me to grow up and get out more, maybe you should try it.
northener
21-Jan-10, 22:42
If taking other peoples feelings into consideration is pompous and condescending then I am happy to be so.
Frankly, I think you care as little for other peoples feelings as you do about the fox......
Still, crusade away........
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 22:46
If you had stated that you see no problem with me posting such a picture for the reasons which you genuinely believe then that would be OK by me, it would just expose your true colours for which we all try to aspire. But by attempting to distort the debate by pretending to have somebody else's values of public decency irt images of dead animals in public on the merits of me posting such a photo was trolling imo.
I haven't attempted to distort anything, I've merely stated that you've posted a picture knowing full well that some people would find it offensive.
J C Denton
21-Jan-10, 22:47
Frankly, I think you care as little for other peoples feelings as you do about the fox......
What possible grounds have you got for saying that?
I haven't attempted to distort anything, I've merely stated that you've posted a picture knowing full well that some people would find it offensive.
And all I can say is 'Job done!'
It's a picture of a dead animal strung up with a piece of wire. OK, not everyone's cup of tea but it's hardly uncommon in open countryside. I've seen this in a few places and it's not really as bad as seeing the entrails of foxes and various other animals spewed across the roads when they've been hit by a vehicle.
I guess Rheghead posted it as a shock tactic to actually get a response rather than have a load of text, picture / thousand words!
I think the heading of the post was sufficient for anyone with some intelligence to either be prepared or not bother looking.
Anyway, I'm off to the butchers to be outraged by the dead animals they've got strung up on a bit of wire and then demand some compensation for being offended.
I have to say i know nothing about the custom of hanging up a fox after it has been killed, but i find it disgusting, that is my opinion.
I understand that farmers class them as pests and are only protecting their stock by the culling of them. Is there really any need to string the animal up in full public view for all to see. Why not burn the carcass or use another form of disposal.
I haven't attempted to distort anything, I've merely stated that you've posted a picture knowing full well that some people would find it offensive.
Point taken but my partner has seen alot worse on the road. He once had to move a dead sheep that had been cut in half by a HGV. He grabbed the head and his friend who was travelling with him at the time took the other other half of the sheep to move it of the road. Not to mention a large part of front bumper from the HVG who cut it in half. There was also strong evidence that it had been there for half a day.
He's also came across as similar road kill incident with a deer.....
In alot of the road kill cases they are alot more gruesome to see that the picture Rheghead posted and they are all in the public eye...
NickInTheNorth
21-Jan-10, 23:00
I don't have any problem with the practise of hanging the fox on the fence, or the posting of the picture on here, or the culling of foxes.
I don't believe any of the above actions is necessary, however nor do i find them offensive.
We wrap children in cotton wool far too much today. Why not let them see and understand what death is about?
I remember distinctly walking past a farmhouse where we used to live one day during lambing time.
There on the wall was not only a dead fox, but also 8 very small legs from 2 very dead lambs.
The legs were there because the farmer had skinned the bodies of two dead lambs and put them on 2 orphans. The fox was shot when eating the bodies of the two dead lambs.
My kids learned a lot that day, in particular they learned all about death.
Just the ramblings of a drunken man...
I don't have any problem with the practise of hanging the fox on the fence, or the posting of the picture on here, or the culling of foxes.
I don't believe any of the above actions is necessary, however nor do i find them offensive.
We wrap children in cotton wool far too much today. Why not let them see and understand what death is about?
I remember distinctly walking past a farmhouse where we used to live one day during lambing time.
There on the wall was not only a dead fox, but also 8 very small legs from 2 very dead lambs.
The legs were there because the farmer had skinned the bodies of two dead lambs and put them on 2 orphans. The fox was shot when eating the bodies of the two dead lambs.
My kids learned a lot that day, in particular they learned all about death.
Just the ramblings of a drunken man...
In your words nick, ramblings, I say it is sense. Children are alot more resilent than we give them credit for.
Boozeburglar
21-Jan-10, 23:07
Crikey.
What a fuss over nothing.
Hanging up kills is a tradition, going back a long way.
I am all for humane culling of animals that need it.
Foxes indeed kill all of whatever they can, but I doubt it is for fun, they have been shown to return to take more if undisturbed.
It was a bonnie fox, really should be skinned with a coat like that!
:)
A question for the offended. How do you feel about people who mount deer heads and antlers, would this also upset you?:roll:
Rheghead is this the first time you have seen this while living in Caithness?
I haven't attempted to distort anything, I've merely stated that you've posted a picture knowing full well that some people would find it offensive.
You most certainly have tried to distort and distract this discussion away from the original question. You have tried to obscure the original query with a suggestion that the offending act was the posting of the photograph, rather than the act of stringing the animal up.
As others have pointed out to you, the thread is very clearly marked. And, being so clearly marked, we must assume that you have an interest in coming on it, and therefore it seems reasonable to ask for your answer to the original question posed.
I reckon its a photoshop job http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/Feesty/emoticon-0174-bandit.gif
tiggertoo
22-Jan-10, 00:36
if its okayto cull animals to keep there numbers down,can certain humans not be culled to keep there numbers down and am talking about the waste o space people who cause nothing but misery to this planet well suppose all politicions would be on this list then aswell as all the drug dealing scum and the likes
Farmers usually have specific people who go round and cull the foxes for them and the reason the fox is hung on a fence after being culled is to let the farmer know that they have been out and what they have caught. The photo dosen't bother me as i've seen it many times being a farmer.
As for those people who say foxes don't kill for fun, i beg to disagree as i've seen lambs with just there heads removed by the fox and there ain't much eating in a head and no the lambs were not ill as someone on another thread suggested, if a ewe has 2 lambs she often can only defend one and foxes know this. [disgust]
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 00:58
what a sad thread to come across :(
All its done is bring the org do-gooders out to play yet again as there whole lifestyle thrives on total perferction in which they can do no wrong.
Its not the photo thats for the squeamish.....its the stupid comments from people on here who think they know it all......
Its been this way for centurys.......take off the blinkers of the way of life and deal with it
While I don't think all things that have been 'that way' for centuries are still okay, there is a lot of merit in trying to understand the way things are better before castigating those involved.
Moderator
22-Jan-10, 01:33
The photo used in the first post has been removed after numerous reports and is not required for the debate to continue.
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 01:36
I think that is a mistake, personally. It could equally show there is not much to be bothered about as anything else.
However, I am perhaps not aware of the general public's reaction to that.
Perhaps there would be a good argument for an 18+ section on the .org?
Where is Crayola when you need her??
Some seem to find it offensive, others don't and yet others find it offensive on behalf of others (I wonder if they asked if folks wanted them to be offended on their behalf)
Oh yes indeed. The offended brigade love nothing more than to spit their harmless venom by proxy as this thread demonstrates so well.
Shabbychic
22-Jan-10, 02:10
As for those people who say foxes don't kill for fun, i beg to disagree as i've seen lambs with just there heads removed by the fox and there ain't much eating in a head. [disgust]
So foxes do this for fun? :eek:
I can just see it now.....Mr fox to the missus, "Right hen, I'll no be long. The squash court is shut due to the snaw, so I'll away and grab maself a lambs heid."
Farmers usually have specific people who go round and cull the foxes for them and the reason the fox is hung on a fence after being culled is to let the farmer know that they have been out and what they have caught.
Couldn't they sort of, ... well, ... like, ... telephone?
Or simply take the animal to the farmer, such that the farmer might dispose of it properly?
Is the farmer supposed to drive around the perimeter to see if his paid killers have actually killed anything?
Does the farmer have to take the animal down at some later stage?
This does not make a lot of sense and is almost certainly not the reason that this vile ritual is carried out, in my opinion.
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 02:32
Well you are wrong.
It is to indicate the location of the kill.
This is just about the least cruel or barbaric thing people could be moaning about.
The photo used in the first post has been removed after numerous reports and is not required for the debate to continue.
I respect your decision, even though I do not agree with it.
The most publicly vocal complainers have sought to distract attention away from this "custom," and onto the act of posting a photo. Whilst the debate can continue without the photo, that's true, there does seem to be a tendency to give way to those who cry wolf when something draws attention to things which the complainers would perhaps prefer to be kept quiet.
In my opinion, the photo was not the problem, the mentality of those who engage in the "custom" is the problem. :eek:
So foxes do this for fun? :eek:
I can just see it now.....Mr fox to the missus, "Right hen, I'll no be long. The squash court is shut due to the snaw, so I'll away and grab maself a lambs heid."
Anyone who has seen a cat 'play' with an injured bird knows that not all maiming and killing in nature is for food.
I respect your decision, even though I do not agree with it.
The most publicly vocal complainers have sought to distract attention away from this "custom," and onto the act of posting a photo. Whilst the debate can continue without the photo, that's true, there does seem to be a tendency to give way to those who cry wolf when something draws attention to things which the complainers would perhaps prefer to be kept quiet.
In my opinion, the photo was not the problem, the mentality of those who engage in the "custom" is the problem. :eek:
I agree full heartedly.
Well you are wrong.
It is to indicate the location of the kill.
So the animal was killed whilst tied to the fence?
If it is only to mark some sort of location, then why not tie a piece of red cloth or something?
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 02:54
Ha ha ha
It is an old old tradition; more of those should be respected rather than the sensitivity of townies.
Kevin Milkins
22-Jan-10, 03:02
I have had the misfortune of having Mr Fox making a visit and clearing out the hen house, (in the daytime) and when you witness at first hand the devastation they can leave behind, its easy to fully understand how many country folk could become the number one enemy of the fox.
The hanging of the fox on the fence is something I have witnessed in many parts of the country and although I could understand and agree with it for many of the reasons already pointed out, I would still question the wisdom of someone hanging one on the fence next to a public road.
Not everyone wants to witness the demise of an animal of any description and I think it is unfair and unnecessary to hang one in such a public place.
The ones that I have dispatched and hung for nature to take it's course have always been with discretion in mind.
As for the photo, I think Rheghead does not post flippantly and his posts usually stimulates good debate.
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 03:09
I think Rheghead does not post flippantly and his posts usually stimulates good debate.
I generally agree with that.
I agree full heartedly.
You and I have not always seen eye to eye (:)), but this thread of yours has been very well conducted indeed, right from the first post, if you don't mind me saying so.
And this despite posters like boozleburger who try to turn it into a "country folk" vs "townies" argument. (Perhaps I should complain on the grounds of originism?)
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 03:20
My goodness, you really are trying to deprive me of my poetic license..
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 03:27
And this despite posters like boozleburger who try to turn it into a "country folk" vs "townies" argument.
I only made one post like that at the end. Maybe you are aware of it, but I also live in the smoke part time and there we have many foxes, albeit a different beast than the large and healthy ones we used to have attacking our lambs and hens in Caithness.
I have not tried to turn this into a townie v whatever debate. A lot of locals in Caithness now are ex townies, and they are entitled to their opinions.
However, no one is entitled to condemn anyone without a good deal of investigation.
I don't think anyone hanging foxes are cruel by merit of doing so.
They may be cruel people, but not on the basis of continuing a tradition.
Sod the offended. Caithness is a farming land, try to understand.
A lot of locals in Caithness now are ex townies, and they are entitled to their opinions.
However, no one is entitled to condemn anyone without a good deal of investigation.
I don't think anyone hanging foxes are cruel by merit of doing so.
They may be cruel people, but not on the basis of continuing a tradition.
Sod the offended. Caithness is a farming land, try to understand.
No one on this thread has tried to defend this "custom" other than by saying it is tradition.
Rolling "witches" down a hill in a spiked barrel used to be a tradition - there is even a plaque in Forres marking the spot where the last such barrel ended up. So, because it is "tradition," does this justify it? Of course not.
Your only justification otherwise is that the dead animal marks some sort of spot, but when I asked why not mark it in some other way, you just laughed. Is that your idea of defending the "custom"?
The debate is not about whether it was right or wrong to kill the fox, but on the reason for then stringing the dead animal up on a fence or gate, usually at night, for all to see, and leaving it there.
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 04:25
well, perhaps you might kill no foxes but string up ten red ribbons...
Foxes don't kill for fun.
So tell me the reason a fox got into my neighbour's chicken run yesterday and killed 7 chickens and left without taking any.
It was't to eat them.
Bring back full blown fox hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mrs Bucket
22-Jan-10, 09:51
A question for the offended. How do you feel about people who mount deer heads and antlers, would this also upset you?:roll:
Good point and what about taxidermy
The photo used in the first post has been removed after numerous reports and is not required for the debate to continue.
Hmmm, remove the photo then we don't need to look at the problem.
No photo = no problem, what's everyone going on about?
Will the mods be out today to remove all the foxes from the fences also, and while your there can you clear all the road kill too because unfortunately they don't put signs ahead stating not for the squeamish.
northener
22-Jan-10, 10:04
Hmmm, remove the photo then we don't need to look at the problem.
No photo = no problem, what's everyone going on about?
Will the mods be out today to remove all the foxes from the fences also, and while your there can you clear all the road kill too because unfortunately they don't put signs ahead stating not for the squeamish.
Fair point, I'm of the impression that there are many who will ignore a subject such as this until the reality of it smacks them in the face. If that means rattling a few cages - then so be it.
I hope nobody publishes any photos of the destruction in Haiti...we'll be mobbed by 'the offended':roll:
I hope nobody publishes any photos of the destruction in Haiti...we'll be mobbed by 'the offended':roll:
I think people will be waiting for the dust to settle before that starts happening
I hope nobody publishes any photos of the destruction in Haiti...we'll be mobbed by 'the offended'
My thoughts exactly.
if its okayto cull animals to keep there numbers down,can certain humans not be culled to keep there numbers down and am talking about the waste o space people who cause nothing but misery to this planet well suppose all politicions would be on this list then aswell as all the drug dealing scum and the likes
So it's not just me that thinks this then.
"Now, about your expenses claim" click CLICK "would you like to explain or shall we get this over and done with"
whaligoechiel
22-Jan-10, 10:56
Thats what I call fox hunting
Thats what I call fox hunting
Love it! Give that orger a cigar.
The poo is gonna fly now!
I hope nobody publishes any photos of the destruction in Haiti...we'll be mobbed by 'the offended':roll:[/quote]
Hmmm maybe farmers are thinking the same thing - better stop hanging up these foxes or we will be mobbed by 'the offended'!
Surely the whole point of this post was that rheghead was 'offended' by the fox being hung on the fence, yet when others are offended by him posting a picture of said fox they are gunned down (no pun intended). I presume you include yourself as part of 'the offended' since you are offended by the farmers practice of hanging dead foxes???
Will the mods be out today to remove all the foxes from the fences also, and while your there can you clear all the road kill too because unfortunately they don't put signs ahead stating not for the squeamish.
Why pick on the Moderators??? They are only doing an erroneous task of trying to moderate this forum, they to my knowledge do not remove posts willy nilly, but they will have been inundated with reported posts from indignant Orgers who do not necessarily with yourself and the like. Its so easy to blame the Mods, rather than use thought out debate.
Why pick on the Moderators??? They are only doing an erroneous task of trying to moderate this forum, they to my knowledge do not remove posts willy nilly, but they will have been inundated with reported posts from indignant Orgers who do not necessarily with yourself and the like. Its so easy to blame the Mods, rather than use thought out debate.
Not picking on the Mod's Golach. It was part of my general point, removing the image will allow some people to live happily in their closeted rose tinted worlds, they can't see it so it's not happening.
But step outside and have a look round and what will you see? Bit's of dead things on the roads and the odd fox on a fence.
Ignore it and it'll go away.
northener
22-Jan-10, 12:37
Hmmm maybe farmers are thinking the same thing - better stop hanging up these foxes or we will be mobbed by 'the offended'!
Surely the whole point of this post was that rheghead was 'offended' by the fox being hung on the fence, yet when others are offended by him posting a picture of said fox they are gunned down (no pun intended).....
That's the point. there's a heap of people being offended by a picture of something that isn't illegal and involves no cruelty to the animal.
That's why I posted a picture of a pork chop to illustrate my point. The chop would cause offence to many peoples ideals (some vegans, some Muslims), yet - as one poster on here showed in spectacularly hypocritical fashion - a picture of one dead animal is 'offensive' to them , yet a picture that may offend others is OK by them.....
'Offence' is taken by some not because of the subject matter, but because they've been smacked between the eyes with reality. Some people find dealing with reality uncomfortable.
They'd prefer not to see what really goes on, but seeing as the OP's title warned quite clearly of the content, some folk were still breaking their necks to be 'offended'.
There's shedloads of crap posted on this forum that I find ignorant, narrow-minded, damn well offensive or banal and tedious. I don't go steaming in and start dishing out 'bad reps', squawking to all and sundry about how 'offended' I am and telling Teechur......pity others can't do the same.
And I also have a problem with self-appointed spokespersons for the masses who attempt to 'demand' courses of action from other posters[disgust]
......I presume you include yourself as part of 'the offended' since you are offended by the farmers practice of hanging dead foxes???
You presume wrong, my friend. I have no problem with humane culling whatsoever and understand why the foxes are hung. Me personally, I wouldn't do it, but other people think differently. I must say that hanging it next to a public road will lead to responses such as we have seen here and possibly misunderstandings over what has taken place.
Not a good PR excersise for the farmers/ country workers IMO....
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 12:47
There's shedloads of crap posted on this forum that I find ignorant, narrow-minded, damn well offensive or banal and tedious
Stop posting it all then!
;)
northener
22-Jan-10, 13:08
Stop posting it all then!
;)
Now, you see, I'm going to have to be all offended at that, BB.
I'm just nipping off to report your post/bad rep you/sulk and burn your hoose doon.:Razz
Couldn't they sort of, ... well, ... like, ... telephone?
Or simply take the animal to the farmer, such that the farmer might dispose of it properly?
Is the farmer supposed to drive around the perimeter to see if his paid killers have actually killed anything?
Most farmers are round there farms everyday.
Does the farmer have to take the animal down at some later stage?
This does not make a lot of sense and is almost certainly not the reason that this vile ritual is carried out, in my opinion.
Usually the foxes are shot late at night so i don't think many farmers would like a phone call in bed or folk to turn up on there doorstep at all hours of the night
Most farmers are round there farms everyday and most of the hunters are not paid to do this job some are gamekeepers.
Most farmers do remove the fox and bury the remains.
It is the reason foxes are hung up so that they know the job has been done and where the fox was found.
Metalattakk
22-Jan-10, 13:43
Stop posting it all then!
;)
Now, you see, I'm going to have to be all offended at that, BB.
No need northener. I'm offended on your behalf, so I'll have to start a campaign. Anyone know the number for the Daily Mail?
What a ridiculous fuss about a dead fox. It lived wild and probably died quickly which is more than can be said for most animals in butchers’ shops so I do hope all those who are so offended, demand respect for dead animals and want to shield their children from such a terrible sight are also careful to cover their eyes every time they go shopping. Actually I have more sympathy for the pork chop. Someone else mentioned battery hens and I agree. Same thing applies to pigs, maybe more so, as they are highly intelligent animals and if the pork you buy has EC on the label, chances are they have been reared in disgusting and cruel conditions. I bet they’d swap places with that fox any day.
suzyq way back in this thread (and later foxy) explained why a fox would be left like this. Perfectly sensible and logical explanation. Why not read it before getting all hysterical about what seems to be a practical solution to a farming problem?
No need northener. I'm offended on your behalf, so I'll have to start a campaign. Anyone know the number for the Daily Mail?
I'm offended because your offended. I'm gonna write to the Sun.
Now, where's the editors number....page 3 hmmm....WOW
Hang on guys, just let me scan this picture here, these are offensive.......
northener
22-Jan-10, 14:06
What a ridiculous fuss about a dead fox. It lived wild and probably died quickly which is more than can be said for most animals in butchers’ shops so I do hope all those who are so offended, demand respect for dead animals and want to shield their children from such a terrible sight are also careful to cover their eyes every time they go shopping. Actually I have more sympathy for the pork chop. Someone else mentioned battery hens and I agree. Same thing applies to pigs, maybe more so, as they are highly intelligent animals and if the pork you buy has EC on the label, chances are they have been reared in disgusting and cruel conditions. I bet they’d swap places with that fox any day....
......
Yup, I'm sure many of the 'offended' will have no problem buying intensively reared Danish pork because it's slightly cheaper than British welfare standard pork, or battery hen eggs as opposed to something that's had a life worth living.
As long as they get their food 'cheap', then to Hell with animal welfare. But let's not see a picture of a dead fox, eh?
If anyone wants to be 'offended', have a look at this picture and remember it the next time you buy your bloody cheap eggs:
http://www.animalsvoice.com/images/gallery/battery/batt9.jpg
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 14:12
Darn you Northerner, now I am gagging for some of that tasty chicken!
;)
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 14:16
Good point about the pork.
Most of the pork we eat is the end product of a process that is cruel beyond belief.
Golach, if the mods are doing their job erroneously, can you suggest the right way to do it?
"Rather undignified end" what utter rot! it's blinking vermin, that kills. OK so it upsets some liberal thinkers outwith country life - that are offended by a common practice - hey folks, this is not a pretty little harmless thing - it's legal to kill em. Why try and humanise vermin?.. It's been mentioned 'Townies v Country Folk' - not far off really me thinks.
The way Rheghead reports this, it would appear that this is the first time he's seen life "as it is"
Come on.. do you really think kids who live in the country are 'ofended' by this 'undignifed' end of a fox.. of course not, they have grown up, knowing it's perfectly normal. Yes, we do get certain chattering classes moving out of their cossetted lifestyles in cities, moving into the country and "Oh no, you can't do that"..
Be interested to see their reactions to castrating of farm animals. If you can't take the heat; Get out of the kitchen. Oh yes I'm not sure fox's are Christian or not but I'm sure that some respectful service can be arranged
Sob Sob, poor lovely fox; rubbish.
Expect they will be objecting to Bull-fighting next and against the throwing of donkeys off towers - whatever is the world coming to!
I have had the misfortune of having Mr Fox making a visit and clearing out the hen house, (in the daytime) and when you witness at first hand the devastation they can leave behind, its easy to fully understand how many country folk could become the number one enemy of the fox.
The hanging of the fox on the fence is something I have witnessed in many parts of the country and although I could understand and agree with it for many of the reasons already pointed out, I would still question the wisdom of someone hanging one on the fence next to a public road.
Not everyone wants to witness the demise of an animal of any description and I think it is unfair and unnecessary to hang one in such a public place.
The ones that I have dispatched and hung for nature to take it's course have always been with discretion in mind.
As for the photo, I think Rheghead does not post flippantly and his posts usually stimulates good debate.
Very well said Kevin and I totally agree with you.
I do not see why the fox has to be hung in such a public place.
Not sure about the foxes hanging on fences keeping foxes out but we have always hung crows that have been shot on the fences around barley/Oats fields and this does help to keep out the crows and ever increasing numbers of ravens that are at the stage of being a real welfare issue at lambing/calving time.
There was a point made early in the thread about foxes not killing for fun- that stament shows a real lack of understanding /knowledge about the countryside we have seen dog foxes working in pairs to take ewe hoggs in the back end when they are at least 6 months old they will normally kill several at one time. This has become more of an issue now that carcases cannot be left out and have to be burried.
northener
22-Jan-10, 15:21
Not sure about the foxes hanging on fences keeping foxes out but we have always hung crows that have been shot on the fences around barley/Oats fields and this does help to keep out the crows and ever increasing numbers of ravens that are at the stage of being a real welfare issue at lambing/calving time.
There was a point made early in the thread about foxes not killing for fun- that stament shows a real lack of understanding /knowledge about the countryside we have seen dog foxes working in pairs to take ewe hoggs in the back end when they are at least 6 months old they will normally kill several at one time. This has become more of an issue now that carcases cannot be left out and have to be burried.
In a similar vein, when we lived in Northamptonshire, I sat in my car one night and watched two foxes deliberately target a cat, force it onto open ground (edge of Southbrook housing estate next to the main road) and then both attack it simultaneously from both sides after a five minute stand-off.
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-10, 15:30
???
That was one scene I would have intervened in.
In our back garden in London, we frequently have stand offs between cats and squirrels, very amusing indeed, but whenever Mr. Foxy comes around I get out there and make sure he is shown the door, and those are wee ones!
:)
Margaret M.
22-Jan-10, 16:13
One of the things I like about Caithness is the honesty of the people so where are the farmers finding these scoundrels who can't be trusted to tell the truth about the number and location of the foxes they shoot? If the location is too hard to describe, leave a wee something like a red ribbon as Stavro suggested, to mark the spot. If the farmer wants to see the fox with his very own eyes, then have the gamekeeper swing by his house and show him or if it is the middle of the night, just leave the fox on his doorstep.
I cannot find anything to back the argument that stringing a dead fox up acts as a deterrent to other foxes. This from The Fox website:
Why do people hang dead foxes on fences?
This is a throwback to Victorian times, when gamekeepers hung the animals they killed on a gibbet to show their employers how well they were doing their job. It is also sometimes done to show neighbours how they treat any fox that appears on their land.
Everything anyone would ever want to know about foxes and then some on that site but not a peep about the deterrent thing.
it is nessary to shoot foxes for wat they do no one would have seen any thing wrong if it was not for the picture post at the beginning if it was my chickens or lambs wat was goin missing or attact i would want some to come along and take the pests out but i like the poto on page 6 with the fox the gun and rabbits lol lol nice one
That's the point. there's a heap of people being offended by a picture of something that isn't illegal and involves no cruelty to the animal.
That's why I posted a picture of a pork chop to illustrate my point. The chop would cause offence to many peoples ideals (some vegans, some Muslims), yet - as one poster on here showed in spectacularly hypocritical fashion - a picture of one dead animal is 'offensive' to them , yet a picture that may offend others is OK by them.....
'Offence' is taken by some not because of the subject matter, but because they've been smacked between the eyes with reality. Some people find dealing with reality uncomfortable.
They'd prefer not to see what really goes on, but seeing as the OP's title warned quite clearly of the content, some folk were still breaking their necks to be 'offended'.
There's shedloads of crap posted on this forum that I find ignorant, narrow-minded, damn well offensive or banal and tedious. I don't go steaming in and start dishing out 'bad reps', squawking to all and sundry about how 'offended' I am and telling Teechur......pity others can't do the same.
And I also have a problem with self-appointed spokespersons for the masses who attempt to 'demand' courses of action from other posters[disgust]
Very well said.
I cannot find anything to back the argument that stringing a dead fox up acts as a deterrent to other foxes.
No one has tried to offer the deterrent nonsense on here, that's true, and the proof to support the killer's invoice argument is also nonsense, as you say. However, quite early on, whilst the photographic image of the actual event was still on the thread, we did have the real reason mentioned by several posters, including myself. Some posters were then "offended" by publication of the image, but not critical in the least of the ritual. This showed that certain "country folk" like to imagine that they are something special and not open to question. Such people usually try, "you don't understand the country," "it's tradition," "it's custom," before running to the teacher and saying that they are being bullied.
Again, whether the fox has to be shot or not is not the point. The thread is to discuss the reason, if any, for stringing the animal up in public. And, since no real reason has been forthcoming from the ritual/custom brigade, I think that the conclusion to this matter is obvious.
Yes, very well put.
It is a very mentally and spiritually sick person who sees any sort of necessity for this bitter, twisted obscenity.
Without even reading page 3 4 or 5. this is his logic, post a topic that will without doubt start a fury. I will say, Get on yer bike, eejit. (only word for the like) yer i know[/URL] [URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/controversial"] (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/controversial)
Without even reading page 3 4 or 5. this is his logic, post a topic that will without doubt start a fury. I will say, Get on yer bike, eejit. (only word for the like) yer i know
So you haven't read pages 3, 4 and 5, and you don't even know who started the topic. Well, if I'm an "eejit," I don't know what that makes you. :D
One of the things I like about Caithness is the honesty of the people so where are the farmers finding these scoundrels who can't be trusted to tell the truth about the number and location of the foxes they shoot? If the location is too hard to describe, leave a wee something like a red ribbon as Stavro suggested, to mark the spot. If the farmer wants to see the fox with his very own eyes, then have the gamekeeper swing by his house and show him or if it is the middle of the night, just leave the fox on his doorstep.
Sounds reasonable to me, Margaret!
I am playing poker at the moment, you wil get your replay shortly shortly STAVRO
So you haven't read pages 3, 4 and 5, and you don't even know who started the topic. Well, if I'm an "eejit," I don't know what that makes you. :D
Obvioulsy you are an eejit, if you think my post was directed at you.
Need i say more.
Please read it again and get back to me...........
For a casual observation, the org members that seem to be least offended by the photo seem to be the ones most opposed to its publication.
Would you like a handle for that ?
Obvioulsy you are an eejit, if you think my post was directed at you.
Is that why you quoted me just before your diatribe?
...
Is that why you quoted me just before your ?
i quoted you because i agreed with what you said. Clearly your to amused with your big fancy words to understand the simple concept.
i quoted you because i agreed with what you said. Clearly your to amused with your big fancy words to understand the simple concept.
Then with supporters like you, who needs enemies?
Then with supporters like you, who needs enemies.
Is this a question ?
Then with supporters like you, who needs enemies.
Is this a question ?
Yes, that's why it had a question mark after it.
Forget it, M R, I am clearly neither a poker player nor drunk (or both). You have a nice time.
Yes, that's why it had a question mark after it.
Forget it, M R, I am clearly neither a poker player nor drunk (or both). You have a nice time.
Sorry ? what am i supposed to forget ?
I can absolutely understand the reasoning of culling and with lambing time not far off I would rather see culling than someone lose their livelihood, there are an awful lot of foxes about these days and they do massive damage when the fancy takes them.
That said what a waste of a beautiful pelt,,, Ducks and runs for cover...:eek:
porshiepoo
26-Jan-10, 13:20
A number of points -
1) Hanging vermin on fences is a traditional way of showing the 'boss' the pest controller is doing his job.
2) If its by the side of a road and the catcher was on foot its more convenient to pick up later (I've even seen this done with deer). Later does not mean the same day - it could be days afterwards.
3) Hanging on a fence is a cleaner way to dispose of a body without polluting water courses etc. or store it until collected.
4) Hanging on a fence makes it easier to find for some carrion eaters.
What an absolute load of rubbish.
1) Move with the times. We do not need to see this sort of thing and it's not a pleasant sight. Let the "boss" see the trophies delivered to his own door.
2) Deer are a different proposition. Generally they are treated with more respect once they're killed (I suspect they make the killer a lovely dinner ;)). And besides picking them up "afterwards" is rubbish. I've seen loads of long dead Fox up here still strung up where they were originally tossed.
3) The body could be burned or I'm sure the council must have some policy for the collection of these things.
4) Absolute tosh. 99% of carrion eaters are more likely to feed from the ground than a fence!
I don't doubt the need to cull Fox but it should be done humanely ( I have no idea how this particular Fox died) and it should be disposed of with efficiency or at the very least left for Carrion to clean it up.
Stringing them across a fence has nothing whatsoever to do with the points you made (IMO) it's either laziness or some ignorant opinion that it will ward off other predators.
Fox are a part of country life. Yes, I understand that they can be a problem for farmers and this may call for humane killing but I've witnessed farmers in Caithness seriously ill treat their stock that they claim to protect and so I doubt the life of a Fox has any value to them. I'm not saying that their view is right or wrong it's just the way I see it.
porshiepoo
26-Jan-10, 13:23
This is a serious question but have any farmers up here ever looked into breeds of dogs that are bred specifically for the protection of Livestock?
Sorry to hijack the thread Rheghead.
Bobinovich
26-Jan-10, 13:24
Wouldn't worry about it Porshie - Rheg's gone...
I've witnessed farmers in Caithness seriously ill treat their stock that they claim to protect and so I doubt the life of a Fox has any value to them. I'm not saying that their view is right or wrong it's just the way I see it.
Ouch! Maybe you should report them to the SSPCA? None that I know abuse their livestock :)
Boozeburglar
26-Jan-10, 16:36
This is a serious question but have any farmers up here ever looked into breeds of dogs that are bred specifically for the protection of Livestock?
Sorry to hijack the thread Rheghead.
Posing this question really does betray a total ignorance of farming practises in Caithness. "Move with the times", aye?
There are, of course, farmers who do not treat their animals as they should. These farmers are found everywhere, and if you encountered such you should obviously report those involved.
That's awful.
I'd never actually come across this practice until we moved up here. I think it's supposed to have some effect on other predators but not really the way to go about it in my opinion.
I understand farmers protecting their investments but this is a sick way to do it, especially as I've seen some of the farmers in Caithness treat that same stock with what I would consider cruelty.
Barbaric.
This was posted 22nd Jan, have you reported it?
Sorry to shout but
The British countryside
IS NOT A FLAMING DISNEYLAND THEME PARK
it is a working environment where you will see life in tooth and claw.
As regards leaving carcases on fences - just don't come round my way when I'm at the lambing or you could be really upset as you will most probably see dead lambs on a fence, and any other dead bodies I may come across. Why? - Because it is practical and my concern is with the living not the dead. Have you never heard the expression 'carrying a dead weight' - dead bodies are ruddy awkward to carry.
When I'm field walking to check on animal welfare I spend my time looking after live animals not dead ones. By the time I've fannied around ferrying dead bodies to and fro to protect the over-delicate sensitivities of some passer-by I could have lost other lambs and possibly the ewes as well. The bodies are collected later when I have dealt with the real priorities.
As regards farmers being cruel to their stock. - The overwhelming majority of farmers do not ill-treat their animals. Unfortunately the only time most of Joe Public see farmers with livestock is in public areas. The animals are in unfamiliar surroundings, are nervous and frequently panic. I was always told a farmer carries a stick as an extension of his/her arm to guide animals but there are occasions when you may have to use it as a weapon. And yes I have done that - when you have half a tonne of frisky bullock charging at you and a group of idol curious behind you, a sharp tap on the nose to redirect is necessary.
So which would you rather see - an animal getting a sharp tap or few to stop it getting loose or the animal get loose and cause a road accident and/or injury to people? I’ve seen both and I know which I prefer every time. To the uninformed some of the methods used may seem cruel but some times it’s the only way to get an animal back under control.
If you’ve got genuine cause for complaint then please report it - but you may well find some of the other so-called ‘cruel’ farmers have got there before you.
By the way - councils do not deal with animal carcases - Search on "disposing of animal carcases" - and when you do you’ll see there is some exemption for the Highlands and Islands because of the practicalities.
And a couple of anecdotes to finish with -
Went to an agricultural show once where people were complaining at the sheep shearing demonstration that it was cruel to sheep - with commercial breeds of sheep it is crueller not to shear them. - Just google ‘sheep’ and ‘fly-strike’ but don’t look at the pictures.
Cousin of mine was complaining that the poor cuddly wuddly liddle lambs I raise are sent off to be killed for meat. Next day she was tucking in to a Roast Lamb dinner with great relish - even after I’d pointed out to her that what she was eating she had seen in the fields on her last visit - and then asked if she could have some for her freezer!
Give me strength!!!
The British countryside
IS NOT A FLAMING DISNEYLAND THEME PARK
it is a working environment where you will see life in tooth and claw.
Well Said Suzyq!
And yes I have done that - when you have half a tonne of frisky bullock charging at you and a group of idol curious behind you, a sharp tap on the nose to redirect is necessary.
Aye, I suppose you are setting yourself up as something for allegedly ill-informed orgers to worship but I think you might just be getting ideas above your station! :eek:
And watch out for the Offended Brigade, they don't like metric bullocks poohing on their threads and they'll string you up as soon as look at you. :Razz
Mickey sends his love x
The British countryside
IS NOT A FLAMING DISNEYLAND THEME PARK
it is a working environment where you will see life in tooth and claw.
Well Said Suzyq!
Hear hear, Bring back fox hunting!!
The British countryside
IS NOT A FLAMING DISNEYLAND THEME PARK
it is a working environment where you will see life in tooth and claw.
Oh I dunno, my kids are havin' plenty of fun, we certainly know what were doing with foxes, rabbits n' cats.
Cousin of mine was complaining that the poor cuddly wuddly liddle lambs I raise are sent off to be killed for meat. Next day she was tucking in to a Roast Lamb dinner with great relish - even after I’d pointed out to her that what she was eating she had seen in the fields on her last visit - and then asked if she could have some for her freezer!
O well, I have two things in common with Paul McCartney then - he and his wife looked out at their lambs one day, then down at their plate, and then never touched another piece of cut up animals. She even launched the veggie range.
I suppose that your cousin just doesn't think, but other people certainly do.
You should get your facts right before asking me a sarcastic question like that. Fox hunting is one of the most Barbaric, selfish sports that a person could ever take part in. The penalties for being caught should be severe and I hope every participant of it gets bit by the hounds .......... at least once! [mad]
I'm not suggesting that Foxes don't need culling if there's a need for control but heaving their bodies over a fence like a trophy or a warning to other predators is not really the right thing to do either. IMO.
Besides which, I have no idea as to whether this particular Fox was killed by a farmer or hit by a car. I was just saying that SOME farmers up here do hang Fox bodies on fences.
Is it a nice sight? Nope.
Is it good for kids to see it? Nope!
haha no lets just pretend that Foxes dont die and we live in a cotten wool world where nothing bad happens.
The Farmers prob have a good reason for this, prob something that has been done for generations and is part of Rural life up here.
Living in the country as a nipper I saw carcasses of sheep and other animals regulary in my exploreation of my surroundings... never done me no harm
Shielding children from the realitys of life is not good.
Also why is Fox Hunting selfish?
Oh I dunno, my kids are havin' plenty of fun, we certainly know what were doing with foxes, rabbits n' cats.
Well kids will always grow up like their parents
Oh I dunno, my kids are havin' plenty of fun, we certainly know what were doing with foxes, rabbits n' cats.
You know..23 fingers between 'em
You know..23 fingers between 'em
And the problem is.......ain't that normal?
Well kids will always grow up like their parents
Yep, mould them like putty in your hands!
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