View Full Version : Very close accident.. Hempriggs
caithnesslad
15-Dec-09, 02:43
Was anyone on here in one of the cars where there was a very near accident on hempriggs half way down the straight at about 7:20pm 14/12/09? Myself a black golf and a silver golf had to go on the verge at about 40mph! Some clown pulled out to overtake on the dip obviously not seeing there was a car coming, Not his fault in a way because whoever was at the front was sitting at 40 for ages on a straight.
Anyway just thought i'd ask to see if anyone would own up to being an idiot and nearly making me go up the chuff of a golf.
He/she should have seen ye as its night time with the lights on an its a pretty straight road ye can see from Hempriggs house to Wick and vice versa.
It doesna matter how good ye are does it ,it just takes a moments madness to put all in peril with a misjudged overtaking manoeuvre,too impetuous indeed for arriving 2mins earlier.
Ye were lucky this time but there are a lot of chancers out there ye just have to be vigilant and look out for them if ye can.
Was anyone on here in one of the cars where there was a very near accident on hempriggs half way down the straight at about 7:20pm 15/12/09? Myself a black golf and a silver golf had to go on the verge at about 40mph! Some clown pulled out to overtake on the dip obviously not seeing there was a car coming, Not his fault in a way because whoever was at the front was sitting at 40 for ages on a straight.
Anyway just thought i'd ask to see if anyone would own up to being an idiot and nearly making me go up the chuff of a golf.
7:20pm 15/12/09 hasn't happened yet so I could pop along to see or you could just avoid the area.
Boozeburglar
15-Dec-09, 03:17
Not his fault in a way because whoever was at the front was sitting at 40 for ages on a straight.
Lucky no one was injured, but this was definitely his fault!
Kevin Milkins
15-Dec-09, 09:06
I usually bumble along at about 40 miles an hour and if someone chooses to make an ill judged overtaking maneuver, then I would not consider it my fault if he ended up in the ditch.:eek:
It is the idiot who overtook without checking - not the road or the folk going at 40 - it was the idiots fault for not ensuring it was completely clear to overtake, that is why many accidents happen.
People blame the road - it is not the road - it is the driver on the road, the road does not move it is the one constant thing. It may be the ability of the driver, speed, condition of the car but do not blame the road.
If a driver is happy going at 40 - that is their prerogative, that is a fair speed and especially if the driver is a fairly new driver or unsure of the road and conditions.
Cars are lethal machines and can kill - that is why you require to pass a competency test to use one. Only trouble is idiots can pass the test too so you have to be careful at all times.
changilass
15-Dec-09, 10:02
If a driver cannot drive to the speed of the road then maybe he should consider taking a few lessons.
Safe driving is not all about how slow or how fast you can go.
In some places you would get done for kerb crawling.
If everyone was a bitty more considerate we would all do better.
If you are crawling along, have the decency to allow others to pass, and if you are passing LOOK.
I agree it is frustrating when you're stuck behind a slow-moving vehicle, but just because the speed limit is 40/50/60 mph - it doesn't mean to say you must stick to that speed and not go any slower!!!! :roll:
changilass
15-Dec-09, 10:54
I did say 'the speed of the road' as opposed to the national speed limits.
If everyone else was doing 60 then someone doing 40 is a hazzard. If however, conditions mean that the majority are doing 40 then 60 would obviously be hazzardous.
As already stated, a bitty consideration all round would mean less accidents and frustration.
Me thinks common sense went out the window with the dish water.
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
15-Dec-09, 10:55
If a driver is happy going at 40 - that is their prerogative, that is a fair speed and especially if the driver is a fairly new driver or unsure of the road and conditions.
Iwould say 40 is far better than 50 - leastit gives those wishing to on a safe bit of road a better chance to overtake than if they were going at 50 for example and someone else was doing 60mh.
Plus 40 mph is the speed limit for certain vehicles anyway so - it's bound to happen!!
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
15-Dec-09, 10:58
If everyone else was doing 60 then someone doing 40 is a hazzard. .
isn't it true that every vehicle on the road is a potential hazard to everyone else?
It is the idiot who overtook without checking - not the road or the folk going at 40 - it was the idiots fault for not ensuring it was completely clear to overtake, that is why many accidents happen.
People blame the road - it is not the road - it is the driver on the road, the road does not move it is the one constant thing. It may be the ability of the driver, speed, condition of the car but do not blame the road.
If a driver is happy going at 40 - that is their prerogative, that is a fair speed and especially if the driver is a fairly new driver or unsure of the road and conditions.
Cars are lethal machines and can kill - that is why you require to pass a competency test to use one. Only trouble is idiots can pass the test too so you have to be careful at all times.
Spot on with these comments,very true.
I agree it is frustrating when you're stuck behind a slow-moving vehicle, but just because the speed limit is 40/50/60 mph - it doesn't mean to say you must stick to that speed and not go any slower!!!! :roll:
Better to be frustrated than dead!!!;)
changilass
15-Dec-09, 11:04
Very true Keep on Trucking, I mind my driving instructer telling me to assume that everyone on the road was a nutter and to drive as though they were gonna do sumat stupid at every opportunity - very good advice.
northener
15-Dec-09, 11:04
There's nothing wrong with people bimbling along at a steady 30 or 40 in a 60 zone - providing they're not holding up traffic by keeping their speed down where it's difficult to overtake.
It's when other traffic can't get past where it would be reasonable to overtake that it becomes a case of the slower driver being an ignorant arse. There's big signs all over the Highlands that say "Police Notice: Allow faster vehicles to overtake" - in other words don't hold people up unnecessarily.
Regarding the incident at Hempriggs: it's very easy to lose oncoming traffic in the blind dip - especially in the dark, and if someones getting a bit impatient, then trouble will occur. It may also be that the overtaking driver was not local and was oblivious to the danger...whatever the reasons for the near miss, at least it was just that - a near miss.
tonkatojo
15-Dec-09, 11:50
There's nothing wrong with people bimbling along at a steady 30 or 40 in a 60 zone - providing they're not holding up traffic by keeping their speed down where it's difficult to overtake.
It's when other traffic can't get past where it would be reasonable to overtake that it becomes a case of the slower driver being an ignorant arse. There's big signs all over the Highlands that say "Police Notice: Allow faster vehicles to overtake" - in other words don't hold people up unnecessarily.
Regarding the incident at Hempriggs: it's very easy to lose oncoming traffic in the blind dip - especially in the dark, and if someones getting a bit impatient, then trouble will occur. It may also be that the overtaking driver was not local and was oblivious to the danger...whatever the reasons for the near miss, at least it was just that - a near miss.
This has been discussed many times,with the same ridiculous presumptions of other road users, 40 mph on a 60 mph MAX road is not kerb crawling Changi, some drivers want to enjoy a drive at 40 mph why should they have to tear around at 60 to satisfy other road users, some drivers want to conserve there fuel by driving at 40 mph, they pay for it and I for one will not be told to what to do just so the 60 mph driver can have there way. The only traffic I will stop to allow overtaking is emergency vehicles not the late for work brigade or the must watch a prog on telly brigade, having said that I have been known to pull into a layby to allow tailbacks to overtake, but I don't dive into a layby because some nutter decides to tailgate me to try and make me go faster. The police notice for overtaking is for informing slow moving vehicles to allow overtaking by the use of laybys to allow overtaking, not to allow ignorant arses to tear up to a law abiding drivers and expect them to quiver and shake at the prospect of drivers who want to go faster. Get real the road is for all, not to dictate your terms and conditions just too suit the speed merchants.
Rant over.
caithnesslad
15-Dec-09, 12:25
There's nothing wrong with people bimbling along at a steady 30 or 40 in a 60 zone - providing they're not holding up traffic by keeping their speed down where it's difficult to overtake.
It's when other traffic can't get past where it would be reasonable to overtake that it becomes a case of the slower driver being an ignorant arse. There's big signs all over the Highlands that say "Police Notice: Allow faster vehicles to overtake" - in other words don't hold people up unnecessarily.
Regarding the incident at Hempriggs: it's very easy to lose oncoming traffic in the blind dip - especially in the dark, and if someones getting a bit impatient, then trouble will occur. It may also be that the overtaking driver was not local and was oblivious to the danger...whatever the reasons for the near miss, at least it was just that - a near miss.
Very true you will see the tyre marks on the grass from me and two golfs half way down the straight on the left hand side coming into Wick, The car overtaking basically had to stop dead in the middle of the road because it was so close. Very lucky bet he wont be doing a manoever like that in a hurry again.
Kevin Milkins
15-Dec-09, 12:40
I drive at a speed that I feel comfortable and safe driving at, if I have cars behind me, then I do pull over at the best opportunity to do so.
I have been driving since 1973 and have never had a driving conviction or an accident, ( whether or not that's just good luck) and I don't intend to speed up just because someone is tailgating me.
I worked in the funeral industry for many years and had the unfortunate job of having to deal with several RTA's and often the victim was the innocent party. Those experiences have left a lasting impression on me that cars are not very giving when they collide, :eek: besides that, have you ever tried to get 50 mph out of a Sinclair C5. ;)
tonkatojo
15-Dec-09, 13:41
I drive at a speed that I feel comfortable and safe driving at, if I have cars behind me, then I do pull over at the best opportunity to do so.
I have been driving since 1973 and have never had a driving conviction or an accident, ( whether or not that's just good luck) and I don't intend to speed up just because someone is tailgating me.
I worked in the funeral industry for many years and had the unfortunate job of having to deal with several RTA's and often the victim was the innocent party. Those experiences have left a lasting impression on me that cars are not very giving when they collide, :eek: besides that, have you ever tried to get 50 mph out of a Sinclair C5. ;)
Hear hear Kevin, I too passed my test in 1967 and have had a clean licence since, I totally agree with your train of thought, certain arses want the road to themselves on their terms and everyone else.
northener
15-Dec-09, 14:12
This has been discussed many times,with the same ridiculous presumptions of other road users, 40 mph on a 60 mph MAX road is not kerb crawling Changi, some drivers want to enjoy a drive at 40 mph why should they have to tear around at 60 to satisfy other road users, some drivers want to conserve there fuel by driving at 40 mph, they pay for it and I for one will not be told to what to do just so the 60 mph driver can have there way. The only traffic I will stop to allow overtaking is emergency vehicles not the late for work brigade or the must watch a prog on telly brigade, having said that I have been known to pull into a layby to allow tailbacks to overtake, but I don't dive into a layby because some nutter decides to tailgate me to try and make me go faster. The police notice for overtaking is for informing slow moving vehicles to allow overtaking by the use of laybys to allow overtaking, not to allow ignorant arses to tear up to a law abiding drivers and expect them to quiver and shake at the prospect of drivers who want to go faster. Get real the road is for all, not to dictate your terms and conditions just too suit the speed merchants.
Rant over.
Calm down, dear.
Someone travelling faster than you isn't necessarily a 'speed merchant'. Any more than anyone who travels at less than 60 is incompetent.
My comments regard sections of road where it is safe and clear to travel faster than the vehicle in front whilst staying within the limit. Simple.
The Police signs aren't put up for the benefit of 'Other' drivers or 'slow' vehicles, they are there to remind all drivers - regardless of the size of their vehicle - that they have a responsibility to other road users in as much that they must not hold people up unnecessarily.
An example of holding up unnecessarily would be on a clear A road where the lead driver is doing 40mph in a 60 zone and traffic is unable to overtake for long periods because of constant oncoming traffic. Or travelling down a single track road with laybys and refusing to pull over to allow traffic behind to clear.
Both tailbacks could be avoided by positive action by the lead driver, refusal to do so based upon the premise that 'You can't make me do it' would show an arrogance only matched by those who deliberately tailgate other drivers.
To quote you, Tonks : "Get real the road is for all, not to dictate your terms and conditions..."
That applies to people holding up the flow of traffic as much as it does to the 'speed merchants'.
caithnesslad
15-Dec-09, 14:22
Couldn't see how people doing 60 could be tearing anywhere in the first place, Bit off topic that anyway just wondered if anyone was going to own up for the dangerous overtake last night didn't want to go too political.
tonkatojo
15-Dec-09, 14:32
Calm down, dear.
Someone travelling faster than you isn't necessarily a 'speed merchant'. Any more than anyone who travels at less than 60 is incompetent.
My comments regard sections of road where it is safe and clear to travel faster than the vehicle in front whilst staying within the limit. Simple.
The Police signs aren't put up for the benefit of 'Other' drivers or 'slow' vehicles, they are there to remind all drivers - regardless of the size of their vehicle - that they have a responsibility to other road users in as much that they must not hold people up unnecessarily.
An example of holding up unnecessarily would be on a clear A road where the lead driver is doing 40mph in a 60 zone and traffic is unable to overtake for long periods because of constant oncoming traffic. Or travelling down a single track road with laybys and refusing to pull over to allow traffic behind to clear.
Both tailbacks could be avoided by positive action by the lead driver, refusal to do so based upon the premise that 'You can't make me do it' would show an arrogance only matched by those who deliberately tailgate other drivers.
To quote you, Tonks : "Get real the road is for all, not to dictate your terms and conditions..."
That applies to people holding up the flow of traffic as much as it does to the 'speed merchants'.
Well done for not calling people arses who don't agree with your philosophy, and thanks for agreeing with me on the rest of your statement.
My 42 years experience has taught me to be tolerant and courteous to other road users hence my pulling over statement, but bullying doesn't wash with my temperament either, but once again if I want to do 40 on a 60 mph road I shall do if I can't pull over tough wait for an appropriate space and overtake me. Aye the road is for all to use in alignment with the highway code.
40mph on a 60mph road which is straight? Huh?.. many times I've driven over the 'hump' from Inverness/Perth, nothing worse than some selfish sod bumbling along at 40 with a tailback of a dozen and more vehicles behind him, who can't overtake because of continuous on-coming traffic and who need to get from A-B at the permitted speed (some say a 'tearing speed') of 60mph.
These selfish arses totally ignoring, and grindingly moving past the huge signs FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS and the PULL OVER TO ALLOW VEHICLES BEHIND TO OVERTAKE.. are they blind?
We then get a series of near misses when a 'frustrated driver' pulls out and attempts to get past this ignorant git, who feels he has the right to impede following traffic, and thinks 'tough, they'll have to wait for a gap in on-coming traffic and then overtake me' what kind of person is that? OK we have drivers who have just passed their driving test, we have timid drivers, we have old farts, BUT why oh why don't they simple do as these massive signs say and allow people to overtake? the road is for ALL, not just the ignorant ones who hold people up..
This morning I drove up over Drum Hollistan- - the hill between Melvich and Reay, in front was a Skoda Fabia which was driving at about 30mph, fair enough, the road is very winding, until it gets to the top where it straightens out. The old boy who was driving then indicates with his left indicator, slows down and allows me to overtake.. I gave him a wave and a couple flicks of the indicator to say 'many thanks'.. see, my point is, he was old, probable grew up in the Northern Highlands and has always driven slowly, but was a courteous driver..
We often hear 'been driving for umpteen years, and 'never had a driving conviction or an accident', but given the scenario above on the A9 there's many a slow drivers who's caused one!
Rant over
Yours
ex-West Mids Fire Engine driver for 11 years and 40 years driving experience oh, and never had an accident or conviction (and hopefully not caused one!)
caithnesslad
15-Dec-09, 18:26
40mph on a 60mph road which is straight? Huh?.. many times I've driven over the 'hump' from Inverness/Perth, nothing worse than some selfish sod bumbling along at 40 with a tailback of a dozen and more vehicles behind him, who can't overtake because of continuous on-coming traffic and who need to get from A-B at the permitted speed (some say a 'tearing speed') of 60mph.
These selfish arses totally ignoring, and grindingly moving past the huge signs FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS and the PULL OVER TO ALLOW VEHICLES BEHIND TO OVERTAKE.. are they blind?
We then get a series of near misses when a 'frustrated driver' pulls out and attempts to get past this ignorant git, who feels he has the right to impede following traffic, and thinks 'tough, they'll have to wait for a gap in on-coming traffic and then overtake me' what kind of person is that? OK we have drivers who have just passed their driving test, we have timid drivers, we have old farts, BUT why oh why don't they simple do as these massive signs say and allow people to overtake? the road is for ALL, not just the ignorant ones who hold people up..
This morning I drove up over Drum Hollistan- - the hill between Melvich and Reay, in front was a Skoda Fabia which was driving at about 30mph, fair enough, the road is very winding, until it gets to the top where it straightens out. The old boy who was driving then indicates with his left indicator, slows down and allows me to overtake.. I gave him a wave and a couple flicks of the indicator to say 'many thanks'.. see, my point is, he was old, probable grew up in the Northern Highlands and has always driven slowly, but was a courteous driver..
We often hear 'been driving for umpteen years, and 'never had a driving conviction or an accident', but given the scenario above on the A9 there's many a slow drivers who's caused one!
Rant over
Yours
ex-West Mids Fire Engine driver for 11 years and 40 years driving experience oh, and never had an accident or conviction (and hopefully not caused one!)
Well said, And there must have been about 7 cars behind the person sitting at 40, And the little straight after thrumster heading towards Wick there was nearly an accident happen there and then on hempriggs straight so safe to say if the person sitting at 40 wasn't there none of it would have happened.
Boozeburglar
15-Dec-09, 18:39
Well what if it was a tractor doing 20???
The overtaking is either safe or not, there is no middle ground.
I don't see the confusion on that aspect of this.
changilass
15-Dec-09, 18:44
Frustration is caused by prats who can but won't as opposed by folks that can't - tollerance is given to those who can't.
Boozeburglar
15-Dec-09, 19:07
When it comes to driving on the public highway, you cannot vent your frustrations by undertaking dangerous manoeuvres.
In doing so, you render yourself the one who can but does not.
Patience is key to safe driving, and if you don't have that skill you should not be driving.
changilass
15-Dec-09, 19:09
Whilst I agree that if you don't have some patience you shouldnae be driving, I also think that if you do not have consideration and cannot drive to the road conditions and speeds you also should not be driving.
John Baikie
15-Dec-09, 19:15
As someone who travels a lot, I see both sides of this.
There are a huge number of inconsiderate drivers who will not pull over, no matter how long a line of traffic is behind them. Equally annoying are the idiots who feel that as they are at the back of a queue of 15 cars, when an opportunity arises to overtake they should go first, and then prevent the ones that have waited patiently for ages from getting past. The ones in front then have to brake to let them in. I've seen so many near things with this crazy practice.
No matter how slow the car in front is going however, there's no excuse for taking risks, either with your own life or the others on the road. In this case it seems it wasn't the slow driver who was at fault.
As an aside.....I often get annoyed with camper vans and caravans that won't pull over (apologies to all caravan owners - you are not all bad just a minority), yet when you're travelling home at night, where are they all?? Parked in a layby!! If only they could see these in daylight hours :lol:
Scorpio12thNov
15-Dec-09, 19:34
I'm sorry, but if anyone is going til be crawling at 40mph, on a 60mph road, causing tailbacks, then it's inevitable that drivers are going to get wound up & take risks. Personally, I widna take a risk on these tight roads, but for somebody drivin these roads day in, day oot, then they may feel lek "Superman" & dart round tight corners & attempt frightenin overtakes...
If ye wana speed, go til a track, if ye wana crawl, go til a track. But for God sake these are PUBLIC roads people!!! It's actually illegal to drive that slow on a main road, if ye were til drive at 40 on a 60 limit in yer test, ye'd fail. I honestly believe people drive iss slow jus til piss other drivers off, & then complain as to how crazy other drivers are. Drive at the limit (or even close til it, 55 or somethin) & ye'll see less folk drivin lek muppets![evil]
Is common sense too much til ask min?:confused
Boozeburglar
15-Dec-09, 19:38
Firstly, no one knows if that person driving was disabled in some way, or was carrying something fragile that caused them to be taking it canny. I have on occasion carried an antique or two that required great care and a steady slow pace.
It really does not matter what the reason was, the protocol is to follow safely at a distance awaiting a safe overtaking opportunity, and after all how much will it reall add to your journey at that point if you travel at 40 rather than 60?
Caithness is a rural location, and it should be expected on all journeys that you will encounter slow moving vehicles. There is no road in Caithness where 50 would be an unreasonable speed, so we are talking about only 10mph off that mark.
As for this particular incident, the person who overtook was either soon in Wick or soon near a safe overtaking point South, so there was NO excuse.
If they were heading to Wick, there is NO reason for overtaking at all. You are talking about a couple of miles, and what will that extra 20mph gain you? 1 minute.
If that happens to you say 10 times on a trip to Inverness then we are talking an additional 10 minutes on your journey.
My normal drive to Inverness is less that 1 hour 30 mins, so I am no slouch, and that includes sitting behind the occasional slow moving vehicle until there is a safe passing opportunity.
It should not matter what vehicle it is or why it is going slowly, you should adjust to it and learn to live with such things.
If you can't do that, chances are you will end up being delayed by much more than a few minutes next time.
Boozeburglar
15-Dec-09, 19:42
Oh yeah, and while I am at it..
We ALL know that on most of the roads in the North we are relatively free of traffic, so there again is another reason there is NO excuse for being impatient.
Try driving in London, then you will relax a little more and realise how lucky you are!
If I set out to drive 10 miles in Caithness, more often than not it takes less than 10 minutes. There are very few other places like that left in the UK.
George Brims
15-Dec-09, 19:51
As the late, great George Carlin used to say, have you noticed how everyone going slower than you is an idiot, and everyone going faster is a maniac?
As irritating as it is the weather conditions of late haven't been the best... Caithnesslad - they could have slowed down because they were feeling intimidated by you driving too close behind them. It is something that I do if someone sits on my tail - I slow down. This allows them to overtake more easily and quickly (and within the speed limit) as I am less of a problem to overtake as I have slowed down. This is something I was taught on an advanced driving course. Another thing I was taught is that before going to overtake, peep out (without indicating or comitting to the manouver) with your car to check the coast is clear. Once you know the coast is clear, indicate and overtake.
For someone to have a near head on collision will only ever be their own fault as they are not practising safe overtaking techniques.
But I agree it is annoying sat behind a person doing 40... Just think yourself lucky you are in Caithness where there is little traffic and straights to overtake in. Where I used to live, the 12 mile trip into work only had two passing places that were enough to allow 2 cars to overtake. The volume of traffic meant that if you hit traffic lights you could be stuck behind 2 dozen cars and 3 changes of lights. If you want to experience true frustration try driving in a semirural area in the commuter belt. The traffic here is divine!
Edit - that 12 mile trip took 45 minutes...
And if it was rush hour - an hour and 40 minutes!!!!!
The 12 miles of Watten to Thurso takes 20 miutes tops even if stuck behind someone doing 40 ;)
Scorpio12thNov
15-Dec-09, 20:04
Caithness is a rural location, and it should be expected on all journeys that you will encounter slow moving vehicles. There is no road in Caithness where 50 would be an unreasonable speed, so we are talking about only 10mph off that mark.
Aye yer right, 50 wouldn't be an unreasonable speed, but eh thread starter clearly stated that iss kiddie wis doin 40 on a 60 road.
Whether eh driver wis disabled or not, ye still cane be drivin iss slow on a main road min! Whether yer speedin wrecklessly, or frustratingly crawling, ones as bad as another as BOTH are illegal, BOTH will cause accidents. So why cant folk drive at the bloody limit???:confused
I notice it's folk wi great beig fancy powerful cars that crawl, as if they own eh road with their great beig jet engined motors. While a wee biy racer wi their wee corsa is goin thrashin it aboot all oer eh road, coz eh auld kiddie in front keeps his foot on eh brake. So ironic, but yet so true...
40mph on a 60mph road which is straight? Huh?.. many times I've driven over the 'hump' from Inverness/Perth, nothing worse than some selfish sod bumbling along at 40 with a tailback of a dozen and more vehicles behind him, who can't overtake because of continuous on-coming traffic and who need to get from A-B at the permitted speed (some say a 'tearing speed') of 60mph.
These selfish arses totally ignoring, and grindingly moving past the huge signs FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS and the PULL OVER TO ALLOW VEHICLES BEHIND TO OVERTAKE.. are they blind?
We then get a series of near misses when a 'frustrated driver' pulls out and attempts to get past this ignorant git, who feels he has the right to impede following traffic, and thinks 'tough, they'll have to wait for a gap in on-coming traffic and then overtake me' what kind of person is that? OK we have drivers who have just passed their driving test, we have timid drivers, we have old farts, BUT why oh why don't they simple do as these massive signs say and allow people to overtake? the road is for ALL, not just the ignorant ones who hold people up..
This morning I drove up over Drum Hollistan- - the hill between Melvich and Reay, in front was a Skoda Fabia which was driving at about 30mph, fair enough, the road is very winding, until it gets to the top where it straightens out. The old boy who was driving then indicates with his left indicator, slows down and allows me to overtake.. I gave him a wave and a couple flicks of the indicator to say 'many thanks'.. see, my point is, he was old, probable grew up in the Northern Highlands and has always driven slowly, but was a courteous driver..
We often hear 'been driving for umpteen years, and 'never had a driving conviction or an accident', but given the scenario above on the A9 there's many a slow drivers who's caused one!
Rant over
Yours
ex-West Mids Fire Engine driver for 11 years and 40 years driving experience oh, and never had an accident or conviction (and hopefully not caused one!)
yep, have to agree too,
I usually bumble along at about 40 miles an hour and if someone chooses to make an ill judged overtaking maneuver, then I would not consider it my fault if he ended up in the ditch.:eek:
But you have to remember if u bumble along at 40mph on a 60 mph road you would fail a driving test for that it shows your not confident or able to control a car at 60mph plus your also causing other drivers to alter there speed you shouldnt be on the road?
Have you ever thought about getting driving lessons to brush up on your skills.?
tonkatojo
15-Dec-09, 20:39
40mph on a 60mph road which is straight? Huh?.. many times I've driven over the 'hump' from Inverness/Perth, nothing worse than some selfish sod bumbling along at 40 with a tailback of a dozen and more vehicles behind him, who can't overtake because of continuous on-coming traffic and who need to get from A-B at the permitted speed (some say a 'tearing speed') of 60mph.
These selfish arses totally ignoring, and grindingly moving past the huge signs FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS and the PULL OVER TO ALLOW VEHICLES BEHIND TO OVERTAKE.. are they blind?
We then get a series of near misses when a 'frustrated driver' pulls out and attempts to get past this ignorant git, who feels he has the right to impede following traffic, and thinks 'tough, they'll have to wait for a gap in on-coming traffic and then overtake me' what kind of person is that? OK we have drivers who have just passed their driving test, we have timid drivers, we have old farts, BUT why oh why don't they simple do as these massive signs say and allow people to overtake? the road is for ALL, not just the ignorant ones who hold people up..
This morning I drove up over Drum Hollistan- - the hill between Melvich and Reay, in front was a Skoda Fabia which was driving at about 30mph, fair enough, the road is very winding, until it gets to the top where it straightens out. The old boy who was driving then indicates with his left indicator, slows down and allows me to overtake.. I gave him a wave and a couple flicks of the indicator to say 'many thanks'.. see, my point is, he was old, probable grew up in the Northern Highlands and has always driven slowly, but was a courteous driver..
We often hear 'been driving for umpteen years, and 'never had a driving conviction or an accident', but given the scenario above on the A9 there's many a slow drivers who's caused one!
Rant over
Yours
ex-West Mids Fire Engine driver for 11 years and 40 years driving experience oh, and never had an accident or conviction (and hopefully not caused one!)
Well this is one person that has experience of driving in most conditions including 70mph on motorways and honestly don't see your argument fire engine driver or not, I also have been almost hit by a fire engine more than once albeit the driver had an excuse but in the eyes of the law he hasn't as he should be driving the speed limit, and numerous crashes have resulted by fire engines with not only the cars involved losing their lives or pedestrians, as I'm sure you are aware of. Why is someone selfish if they want to travel at a slower speed to you. I too allow folk to overtake but where its not possible to pull in once again tough, wait for an appropriate place and overtake, as you said the road is for all not only the ones that want to travel at more than 40mph. If you feel that strongly report the driver to the police and see what their reply will be. The highway code is for all and should be adhered to by all, not interpreted as and when it suits.
You can't blame other drivers for your frustration, It is hardly their fault you have to drive at the limit to reach your destination on time. How can a driver have caused umpteen accidents if he is not in fault according to the highway code ?, no where in the book does it say anyone must drive to the limit, unless it's changed.
Oh and well done for your driving record.
Tonkatojo: "Well this is one person that has experience of driving in most conditions including 70mph on motorways and honestly don't see your argument fire engine driver or not, I also have been almost hit by a fire engine more than once albeit the driver had an excuse but in the eyes of the law he hasn't as he should be driving the speed limit, and numerous crashes have resulted by fire engines with not only the cars involved losing their lives or pedestrians, as I'm sure you are aware of."
Hmm, I can just imagine it.. bells go down, 'Persons Reported' onto the machine, blokes get their gear on, test DSU's. Tonkatojo slips into drive, the engine surges forward.. first traffic light. Stops, waits till lights turn to green, continues on at 30 (Well it IS a 30 miles an hour zone).. Opps junction, waits whilst traffic has all passed.. slow car in front - doing 49 in 50 mph zone, can't overtake; will break speed limit. Great here's a road where 'National Speed Limit applies' foot down, and the 23 ft long 13 ton appliance surges forward with it's 6 cylinder, 250 BHP turbocharged diesel nudging [but not quite going through] the 60mph limit..
Eventually arrive at scene, never mind, they are all dead, burnt, crushed, fatal under vehicle.. whatever...
I see you've driven on Motorways at 70mph Tonkatojo.. bet you don't believe it but we are (I mean 'were' as I'm out) permitted to drive the wrong way down the hard shoulder of the motorway - oh what fun..
I must admit I remember driving down the M5 to an RTA - two lanes closed and in front was a car still driving along, and although I had two-tones and lights on.. this person would not pull into the many gaps in the line of traffic, it actually slowed down to 25 miles an hour, so I turned off the flashing lights and two-tones and immediately the car turned into a gap, we passed and could see it was a very old lady looking petrified, obviously the noise and lights confused the old dear!.. ah memories
Anyway a few regs below;
While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including
treating a red traffic light as a give way sign
passing to the wrong side of a keep left bollard
driving on a motorway hard shoulder (even against the direction of traffic)
disobeying the speed limit (police, fire and ambulance services only)
However, they are not allowed to
ignore a 'no entry' sign
ignore a 'stop' or 'give way' sign
drive the wrong way down a one-way street
ignore flashing signs at level crossings or fire stations
cross a solid white line down the middle of the road*
*except in the same circumstances as everyone else (for instance to pass a stationary vehicle, slow moving cyclist or horse, or a road maintenance vehicle). This can cause problems for emergency drivers when other road users slow to let them pass where road markings indicate no overtaking.
Sometimes emergency vehicles may need to disobey other signs and regulations. This will depend on the professional judgment of the driver.
http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/information/bluelightuse.htm#Emergency_Vehicle_Definition (http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/information/bluelightuse.htm#Emergency_Vehicle_Definition)
"if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion".
Kevin Milkins
15-Dec-09, 21:42
But you have to remember if u bumble along at 40mph on a 60 mph road you would fail a driving test for that it shows your not confident or able to control a car at 60mph plus your also causing other drivers to alter there speed you shouldnt be on the road?
Have you ever thought about getting driving lessons to brush up on your skills.?
I don't recall saying that I drive everywhere at all times at 40 mph, it just seems to me a comfortable speed to drive at on the roads in this area as I am not usually in a rush.
I said that I drive at a speed that I feel comfortable with and will not be intimidated by someone tailgating me, and although 40 is my chosen speed, if there is traffic behind me I will increase my speed to what I am comfortable with (and the road to Trumpster would be 60mph) and I will pull over as soon as it is safe and practical to do so for traffic to pass.
I agree that it can be frustrating to sit behind someone driving at an unnecessary slow speed (just to wind people up) and it is not something that I would consider doing, however, I will not allow myself to be bullied in any shape or form.
I have not considered getting driving lessons (yet), because I don't think I cause anyone inconvenience or do I represent a danger to other road user's, but you can be assured, if I did, I would.
While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including ..............
Interesting! Since when has this been legislation and is it applicable across the whole of the UK?
tonkatojo
15-Dec-09, 22:08
Tonkatojo: "Well this is one person that has experience of driving in most conditions including 70mph on motorways and honestly don't see your argument fire engine driver or not, I also have been almost hit by a fire engine more than once albeit the driver had an excuse but in the eyes of the law he hasn't as he should be driving the speed limit, and numerous crashes have resulted by fire engines with not only the cars involved losing their lives or pedestrians, as I'm sure you are aware of."
Hmm, I can just imagine it.. bells go down, 'Persons Reported' onto the machine, blokes get their gear on, test DSU's. Tonkatojo slips into drive, the engine surges forward.. first traffic light. Stops, waits till lights turn to green, continues on at 30 (Well it IS a 30 miles an hour zone).. Opps junction, waits whilst traffic has all passed.. slow car in front - doing 49 in 50 mph zone, can't overtake; will break speed limit. Great here's a road where 'National Speed Limit applies' foot down, and the 23 ft long 13 ton appliance surges forward with it's 6 cylinder, 250 BHP turbocharged diesel nudging [but not quite going through] the 60mph limit..
Eventually arrive at scene, never mind, they are all dead, burnt, crushed, fatal under vehicle.. whatever...
I see you've driven on Motorways at 70mph Tonkatojo.. bet you don't believe it but we are (I mean 'were' as I'm out) permitted to drive the wrong way down the hard shoulder of the motorway - oh what fun..
I must admit I remember driving down the M5 to an RTA - two lanes closed and in front was a car still driving along, and although I had two-tones and lights on.. this person would not pull into the many gaps in the line of traffic, it actually slowed down to 25 miles an hour, so I turned off the flashing lights and two-tones and immediately the car turned into a gap, we passed and could see it was a very old lady looking petrified, obviously the noise and lights confused the old dear!.. ah memories
Anyway a few regs below;
While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including
treating a red traffic light as a give way sign
passing to the wrong side of a keep left bollard
driving on a motorway hard shoulder (even against the direction of traffic)
disobeying the speed limit (police, fire and ambulance services only)
However, they are not allowed to
ignore a 'no entry' sign
ignore a 'stop' or 'give way' sign
drive the wrong way down a one-way street
ignore flashing signs at level crossings or fire stations
cross a solid white line down the middle of the road*
*except in the same circumstances as everyone else (for instance to pass a stationary vehicle, slow moving cyclist or horse, or a road maintenance vehicle). This can cause problems for emergency drivers when other road users slow to let them pass where road markings indicate no overtaking.
Sometimes emergency vehicles may need to disobey other signs and regulations. This will depend on the professional judgment of the driver.
http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/information/bluelightuse.htm#Emergency_Vehicle_Definition (http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/information/bluelightuse.htm#Emergency_Vehicle_Definition)
"if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion".
Yeah I believe it but where is the regulation that say's all drivers must drive to the national speed limit ??, and I suppose frightening an old dear as you put it boosts your macho image, I suppose the old dears on pedestrian crossings need to sprout wings as well, or the horse rider on country roads needs to get his mount to jump fences, or the bairns on their bikes learning to ride shouldn't be there, the list goes on. As well as your circumstances list justifies your actions.
In your capacity as one of emergency services, what's the ratio of accidents by drivers doing the maximum and the drivers doing 40mph, how many 40mph drivers loose control of their vehicles compared to your maximum limit drivers.
You might be surprised but most stations have traffic light that turn red to facing traffic to allow the emergency service out. Once out its up to the judgement of the driver not to cause even more accidents or deaths, sometimes even they fail in this because of bad judgement, even they are not perfect. But I doubt the macho image will see that. But I don't see the similarity of those circumstances to a ordinary car driver doing 40mph and the person behind late for whatever wanting the driver to increase their speed to suit.
I have not considered getting driving lessons (yet), because I don't think I cause anyone inconvenience or do I represent a danger to other road user's, but you can be assured, if I did, I would.
You have never had driving lessons? Are you road legal?
Scorpio12thNov
15-Dec-09, 22:57
LeanneQuote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio12thNov http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=632955#post632955)
I have not considered getting driving lessons (yet), because I don't think I cause anyone inconvenience or do I represent a danger to other road user's, but you can be assured, if I did, I would.
You have never had driving lessons? Are you road legal?
I da ken how my name is there coz i never wrote that!!! hhhmmm...im gettin set up again!!!:lol:
But aye, I hev had driving lessons. & I passed my theory/hazard perception 100% & i got one minor on ma practical...so nyiet til ye!!!!!!![evil]
LeanneQuote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio12thNov http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=632955#post632955)
I have not considered getting driving lessons (yet), because I don't think I cause anyone inconvenience or do I represent a danger to other road user's, but you can be assured, if I did, I would.
I da ken how my name is there coz i never wrote that!!! hhhmmm...im gettin set up again!!!:lol:
But aye, I hev had driving lessons. & I passed my theory/hazard perception 100% & i got one minor on ma practical...so nyiet til ye!!!!!!![evil]
How weird! It was Kevin Milikins - yet when I clicked quote it attributed it to you... There are bugs in the system... It's getting stranger by the day!
Edit - Kevin - have you??? lol
Scorpio12thNov
15-Dec-09, 23:10
How weird! It was Kevin Milikins - yet when I clicked quote it attributed it to you... There are bugs in the system... It's getting stranger by the day!
Edit - Kevin - have you??? lol
Haha...Eh Org is oot til get me!:lol:
Tonkatojo; "and I suppose frightening an old dear as you put it boosts your macho image" & "But I doubt the macho image will see that" What on earth on you on about Tonk? 'macho'? nah, what a silly thing to say, not macho at all, I said the noise and lights had confused the old dear - what's macho about that?
"You might be surprised but most stations have traffic light that turn red to facing traffic to allow the emergency service out" Surprised? why's that Tonk? of course they do, er, I think I mentioned I drove a Fire Appliance?
Anyway the initial poster was on about a driver dithering along at 40 on a straight road which had a 60 limit..
Keep smiling!
Kevin Milkins
15-Dec-09, 23:43
How weird! It was Kevin Milikins - yet when I clicked quote it attributed it to you... There are bugs in the system... It's getting stranger by the day!
Edit - Kevin - have you??? lol
Yes, I had driving lessons before passing my test, first on a motor bike in 1973 and in a car in 1974. I used to do an average of forty thousand miles a year when I worked as a sales rep, and all without incident, so I think it is reasonable to suggest that I am a competent driver, (even if I do choose to drive slower than most).
piratelassie
15-Dec-09, 23:51
Got stuck behind a driver doing 35mph this afternoon, and that is not saving petrol when I am forced down to third geer.If a person has not got the confidence to go any faster than that, they should'nt be on the road. OK, I here you say that they are paying there road tax, but is'nt it flustration that causes a lot of accidents......[disgust]
Scorpio12thNov
16-Dec-09, 00:06
Got stuck behind a driver doing 35mph this afternoon, and that is not saving petrol when I am forced down to third geer.If a person has not got the confidence to go any faster than that, they should'nt be on the road. OK, I here you say that they are paying there road tax, but is'nt it flustration that causes a lot of accidents......[disgust]
Correct. Wastes fuel, & if they aren't confident enough til be on eh road ehn chuck them in eh dodgems or something...
Yeah I believe it but where is the regulation that say's all drivers must drive to the national speed limit ??, and I suppose frightening an old dear as you put it boosts your macho image, I suppose the old dears on pedestrian crossings need to sprout wings as well, or the horse rider on country roads needs to get his mount to jump fences, or the bairns on their bikes learning to ride shouldn't be there, the list goes on. As well as your circumstances list justifies your actions.
In your capacity as one of emergency services, what's the ratio of accidents by drivers doing the maximum and the drivers doing 40mph, how many 40mph drivers loose control of their vehicles compared to your maximum limit drivers.
You might be surprised but most stations have traffic light that turn red to facing traffic to allow the emergency service out. Once out its up to the judgement of the driver not to cause even more accidents or deaths, sometimes even they fail in this because of bad judgement, even they are not perfect. But I doubt the macho image will see that. But I don't see the similarity of those circumstances to a ordinary car driver doing 40mph and the person behind late for whatever wanting the driver to increase their speed to suit.
I'd rather bekisman scared a old dear than got at the scene of a accident/fire/car crash scene too late!
I have a healthy respect for the emergency service as does my partner. He drives out of the way straight away for them.
Is endearing to the speed limit more important than the emergency services getting to where they are needed to save a life?
Got stuck behind a driver doing 35mph this afternoon, and that is not saving petrol when I am forced down to third geer.If a person has not got the confidence to go any faster than that, they should'nt be on the road. OK, I here you say that they are paying there road tax, but is'nt it flustration that causes a lot of accidents......[disgust]
its a speed limit not a target.
DX
caithnesslad
16-Dec-09, 03:58
As irritating as it is the weather conditions of late haven't been the best... Caithnesslad - they could have slowed down because they were feeling intimidated by you driving too close behind them. It is something that I do if someone sits on my tail - I slow down. This allows them to overtake more easily and quickly (and within the speed limit) as I am less of a problem to overtake as I have slowed down. This is something I was taught on an advanced driving course. Another thing I was taught is that before going to overtake, peep out (without indicating or comitting to the manouver) with your car to check the coast is clear. Once you know the coast is clear, indicate and overtake.
For someone to have a near head on collision will only ever be their own fault as they are not practising safe overtaking techniques.
But I agree it is annoying sat behind a person doing 40... Just think yourself lucky you are in Caithness where there is little traffic and straights to overtake in. Where I used to live, the 12 mile trip into work only had two passing places that were enough to allow 2 cars to overtake. The volume of traffic meant that if you hit traffic lights you could be stuck behind 2 dozen cars and 3 changes of lights. If you want to experience true frustration try driving in a semirural area in the commuter belt. The traffic here is divine!
Edit - that 12 mile trip took 45 minutes...
And if it was rush hour - an hour and 40 minutes!!!!!
The 12 miles of Watten to Thurso takes 20 miutes tops even if stuck behind someone doing 40 ;)
For a start I was at the back of the que and the person holding us all up was six cars infront so was nothing to do with me but I was nearly in the back of a silver golf due to dangerous overtake/slow driver.
For a start I was at the back of the que and the person holding us all up was six cars infront so was nothing to do with me but I was nearly in the back of a silver golf due to dangerous overtake/slow driver.
A whole 6 cars?!?! Positively rush hour :roll:
tonkatojo
16-Dec-09, 09:47
For a start I was at the back of the que and the person holding us all up was six cars infront so was nothing to do with me but I was nearly in the back of a silver golf due to dangerous overtake/slow driver.
If you were nearly in the back of the car in front you were to close to it.
I'll get me 'andbag out and join the row.
Dangerous overtaking is exactly that and there is no excuse, ever.
Not knowing the road is no excuse, "knowing the road like the back of your hand" is no excuse either.
Treat every road as if your driving it for the first time.
Dangerous over taking because another car is slow moving is not an excuse.
Your licence is a privilege not a right.
If you want to drive 40 in a 60 when conditions are suitable for 60, fine, just do it with due care and consideration for other road users*. And allow overtaking.
Just because I may do 45 to overtake your 40 doesn't necessarily make me a raging speed demon loon with a death wish who is late for Hollyoaks or whatever.
I choose to drive at a speed I am comfortable with and is suitable for the vehicle, road, weather and general conditions at that time.
For those of you who wish to drive way below the speed limit when it is safe to drive at the limit, allow others to drive at the limit should they so wish.
On a similar note:
DO NOT EVER SPEED UP TO PREVENT THEM OVERTAKING YOU!
By doing this you are directly, and seriously contributing to a potential death!
(and in my eyes, this kind of driving ("policing"), is the worse type of driving and shows that these kind of people are intently and maliciously putting peoples lives in danger and should be treated as criminals.)
*"Driving a vehicle on a public road without consideration for other road users."
The mentality of not allowing people to overtake falls into the "without" section of this statement.
You don't have to pull over and stop, these people obviously are not in a rush so why is it so difficult to slow down a wee bit more on a clear straight section and allow all the crazy suicidal late for work petrolhead demons speed past at 50mph.
If I end up with 1 or 2 cars behind me due to my actions/speed I start to make considerations to allow them to pass.
Anyhow, it's the speed wanderers that cause the hold ups. 20 - 30 on wee bends, 45 - 55 on the straight, late and excessive braking in a bend.
Now there a rant for another thread [evil]
And why does X no' years of driving & no convictions / accidents count?
Surely currency of valid training is more appropriate.
Tonkatojo; "Well this is one person that has experience of driving in most conditions including 70mph on motorways" hmm, just a thought, how come you were not driving at 40mph?, why were you doing the maximum speed limit? where you needing to get to your destination quickly?. Suppose just the same then as the one's behind you doing 40 who needed to get to their own 'destination quickly'..
As an aside, people generally seem to think a lot of elderly folk are slow/bad drivers - fair enough reactions do eventually deteriorate, but most usually you'll find a timid driver was always a timid driver, and a confident driver will remain a confident driver into old age. My wife (an old age pensioner) has always been a confident and proficient driver - anyone else driven around the Arc de Triumph, Place de la Concorde (what fun!) or from St Austell to Strathy (874 miles) in one stint ?
Drive safe, drive courteous, drive well; arrive alive...
The Angel Of Death
16-Dec-09, 10:31
I have on occasion carried an antique or two that required great care and a steady slow pace.
Yea its called taking my granny out in the car however with enough bubble wrap and a brandy or two everything is good and i can still do 60 ;)
Remembers me as well coming home from thurso on monday afternoon and there was a police car going back to wick why does the sight of one cause everyone to slow down to 35 mph ? I mean fair enough stick to 50 or 60 but 35 thats taking the michael isnt it ?
there was a police car going back to wick why does the sight of one cause everyone to slow down to 35 mph ? I mean fair enough stick to 50 or 60 but 35 thats taking the michael isnt it ?
Ha ha! It's like the plod on the motorways, sitting in lane 1 doing 68mph and no one has the bottle to overtake.
Cue a careful overtake with gentle acceleration, soon back up to 120mph.
Joke, I don't drive at 120mph, 136 seems to be the limit unless I'm goin' down hill!!
This discussion is never going to come to an agreed compromise.
The only thing I would say is if driving at 40mph in a 60mph zone (with no weather conditions or heavy traffic) was acceptable then why would you fail a driving test for it?
I personally almost failed for driving at 28mph in a 30mph area as this is what I got 3 minor faults for and a fourth is a fail.
The only thing I would say is if driving at 40mph in a 60mph zone (with no weather conditions or heavy traffic) was acceptable then why would you fail a driving test for it?
Partly the reason for taking you on the likes of 60mph roads for your test is to ensure that you are capable of driving a vehicle at those speeds and on those roads.
This is why I believe motorway driving should be instructed & tested also.
tonkatojo
16-Dec-09, 11:49
This discussion is never going to come to an agreed compromise.
The only thing I would say is if driving at 40mph in a 60mph zone (with no weather conditions or heavy traffic) was acceptable then why would you fail a driving test for it?
I personally almost failed for driving at 28mph in a 30mph area as this is what I got 3 minor faults for and a fourth is a fail.
Ask your instructor, you drive up to the 60 ish mark to show you are competent to do it, not so you are obliged to do it thereafter.
3 minor faults for driving at 28 not 30mph, Yeah I believe that not and if it did happen take the paper to the authorities and get them to explain why.
tonkatojo
16-Dec-09, 11:58
I'll get me 'andbag out and join the row.
Dangerous overtaking is exactly that and there is no excuse, ever.
Not knowing the road is no excuse, "knowing the road like the back of your hand" is no excuse either.
Treat every road as if your driving it for the first time.
Dangerous over taking because another car is slow moving is not an excuse.
Your licence is a privilege not a right.
If you want to drive 40 in a 60 when conditions are suitable for 60, fine, just do it with due care and consideration for other road users*. And allow overtaking.
Just because I may do 45 to overtake your 40 doesn't necessarily make me a raging speed demon loon with a death wish who is late for Hollyoaks or whatever.
I choose to drive at a speed I am comfortable with and is suitable for the vehicle, road, weather and general conditions at that time.
For those of you who wish to drive way below the speed limit when it is safe to drive at the limit, allow others to drive at the limit should they so wish.
On a similar note:
DO NOT EVER SPEED UP TO PREVENT THEM OVERTAKING YOU!
By doing this you are directly, and seriously contributing to a potential death!
(and in my eyes, this kind of driving ("policing"), is the worse type of driving and shows that these kind of people are intently and maliciously putting peoples lives in danger and should be treated as criminals.)
*"Driving a vehicle on a public road without consideration for other road users."
The mentality of not allowing people to overtake falls into the "without" section of this statement.
You don't have to pull over and stop, these people obviously are not in a rush so why is it so difficult to slow down a wee bit more on a clear straight section and allow all the crazy suicidal late for work petrolhead demons speed past at 50mph.
If I end up with 1 or 2 cars behind me due to my actions/speed I start to make considerations to allow them to pass.
Anyhow, it's the speed wanderers that cause the hold ups. 20 - 30 on wee bends, 45 - 55 on the straight, late and excessive braking in a bend.
Now there a rant for another thread [evil]
And why does X no' years of driving & no convictions / accidents count?
Surely currency of valid training is more appropriate.
I totally agree with that, except valid training is the reason I for one have no convictions/accidents after driving legally 42 years. Not just cars, psv/hgv to class 1 not just on rural roads but cities UK and Europe. suppose I should include the motor bikes I've owned as well.
The Angel Of Death
16-Dec-09, 11:58
3 minor faults for driving at 28 not 30mph, Yeah I believe that not and if it did happen take the paper to the authorities and get them to explain why.
Deffo not the first time i have seen that a close friend of mine was failed for exactly that reason driving to slow on a 30 road he thought he was being smart by not speeding and then got done for that
tonkatojo
16-Dec-09, 12:05
Deffo not the first time i have seen that a close friend of mine was failed for exactly that reason driving to slow on a 30 road he thought he was being smart by not speeding and then got done for that
Aye probably so but not for 28mph in a 30mph zone.
The Angel Of Death
16-Dec-09, 12:14
Speeds ranged from 25 to just under 30 so yea 28 was there
tonkatojo
16-Dec-09, 12:33
Speeds ranged from 25 to just under 30 so yea 28 was there
I think you spotted the cause of the fail 25mph would be driving to cautiously for prolonged periods but not 28mph.
northener
16-Dec-09, 12:40
Driving at 28mph in a 30 zone would not constitute a driver error on the test.
The Driving Examiner will assess the candidates speed in relation to the road and conditions at the time. He/she will then decide whether that speed is acceptable in that situation.
eg:
25mph in a 30 zone on a long straight and clear stretch with no attempt to get closer to the limit would be a driver error, if you repeatedly did this - then you would potentially be looking at a fail. As I said, it's down to the DE's interpretation given the road and conditions at the time.
27-28 mph would be deemed acceptable. Below 25 and you're definitely looking at errors under 'making progress'.
Travelling on a clear National Speed Limit stretch at 40mph without good cause would be a fail under 'making progress'. As has been pointed out - you have to show you can assess the road and conditions accurately and drive at an appropriate speed.
I'd be very cautious regarding candidates interpretations of why they failed. Experience has taught me that in many cases, they are missing the main reason and focussing on less important issues - either because they didn't understand the reasons (or weren't offered a sensible explanation), or because they're making excuses for their own failings.
3 minor faults for driving at 28 not 30mph, Yeah I believe that not and if it did happen take the paper to the authorities and get them to explain why.
Its not written on the paper, its what the driving examiner advised me when he went over the minors at the end of the test, If you dont believe me why dont you ask a driving examiner or the authorities yourself, why would I dispute it, I passed the test so no point in making a fuss over it.
northener
16-Dec-09, 12:50
.......I personally almost failed for driving at 28mph in a 30mph area as this is what I got 3 minor faults for and a fourth is a fail.
Its not written on the paper, its what the driving examiner advised me when he went over the minors at the end of the test, If you dont believe me why dont you ask a driving examiner or the authorities yourself, why would I dispute it, I passed the test so no point in making a fuss over it.
You didn't get three driver errors (less serious faults) if they weren't marked down on your DL25 (test assessment sheet). If the DE commented at the end of your test without marking anything on your sheet, then that is just general advice for you to think about.
It sounds to me that your assessment of the correct speed was a little on the low side, but the DE decided it was classed as 'not worth recording'.
You didn't get three driver errors (less serious faults) if they weren't marked down on your DL25 (test assessment sheet). If the DE commented at the end of your test without marking anything on your sheet, then that is just general advice for you to think about.
It sounds to me that your assessment of the correct speed was a little on the low side, but the DE decided it was classed as 'not worth recording'.
Its been a while since I looked at the sheet but i'll take a look this afternoon, There are 3 marks against the section for driving speed(or whatever the section is called). So he explained why I had these marks verbally at the end of the test.
northener
16-Dec-09, 12:57
Its been a while since I looked at the sheet but i'll take a look this afternoon, There are 3 marks against the section for driving speed(or whatever the section is called). So he explained why I had these marks verbally at the end of the test.
OK, I understand now, I read it as the faults not being on the DL25.
OK, I understand now, I read it as the faults not being on the DL25.
Yea sorry I'm not good at explaining things, I'm just adding my bit to this heated debate :cool:
If you don't feel comfortable driving @ or close to the speed limit, then you should be thinking about hanging up your keys or re-sitting your test.
caithnesslad
16-Dec-09, 21:47
If you don't feel comfortable driving @ or close to the speed limit, then you should be thinking about hanging up your keys or re-sitting your test.
Yeah couldn't have said it better, If you cant sit at 60 constantly then you need your license looked over.
If you don't feel comfortable driving @ or close to the speed limit, then you should be thinking about hanging up your keys or re-sitting your test.
Since when does the driving test include skills relating to driving at high speed?
Boozeburglar
16-Dec-09, 22:57
I would add that some of the very worst UK driving I have seen has been on the roads of Caithness. But it is not the bumblers, I expect them and join them now and then in their relaxed approach.
The people I see driving worst are the ones who are keeping their speed up round every corner, oblivious to the chance of a tractor leaving a field or some kids on bikes or the odd pedestrian.
By constantly stoking the boiler these people are leaving no room for error and no time for reaction to changin conditions. Truth is, most of the rural roads in Caithness are not suitable for progress at the speeds people drive on them.
Someone driving a bit slower is nothing like the danger to us all as the unthinking speedster is.
piratelassie
16-Dec-09, 23:20
Yeah couldn't have said it better, If you cant sit at 60 constantly then you need your license looked over.
Totally agree , but there's nothing worse than the driver who bombs away on the straights at 60 then drops down 35 - 40 on the bends ,:mad:
Boozeburglar
16-Dec-09, 23:29
Yeah right! Best thing is for them to swing out into the other lane and then maximise their velocity through the bend, regardless of oncoming traffic.
caithnesslad
16-Dec-09, 23:37
Totally agree , but there's nothing worse than the driver who bombs away on the straights at 60 then drops down 35 - 40 on the bends ,:mad:
Most BMW, Audi drivers i find are quite fond of doing that, Flat out on a straight then big red lights on the rear on the corners lol.
The Angel Of Death
16-Dec-09, 23:38
Since when does the driving test include skills relating to driving at high speed?
Since when does driving at 60 miles an hour constitute driving at speed the last time i checked it was the NATIONAL speed limit
The way your talking about it is like your driving a space shuttle on the roads not a car :eyes
Since when does the driving test include skills relating to driving at high speed?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Think Angel of Death answered that for me.
FutureMix
17-Dec-09, 14:23
In my opinion driving well below the speed limit especially in good conditions is as dangerous as speeding (Speeding=over the spead limit). Although I can understand why some people do drive slowly (sometimes you just want to take in the scenery) However I think it should be law that if you drive slowly say 45mph or lower then you should be treated like other slow moving vehicles ie tractors. You should be made to have a flashing light on top of your vehicle to give additional warning to other drivers a bit like your hazard warning lights something you could switch on when you know you may be causing a hazard. (especially at night).
Now I know there are technical issues etc with regard to were would it go and how would it look etc so dont ask!
tonkatojo
17-Dec-09, 15:07
In my opinion driving well below the speed limit especially in good conditions is as dangerous as speeding (Speeding=over the spead limit). Although I can understand why some people do drive slowly (sometimes you just want to take in the scenery) However I think it should be law that if you drive slowly say 45mph or lower then you should be treated like other slow moving vehicles ie tractors. You should be made to have a flashing light on top of your vehicle to give additional warning to other drivers a bit like your hazard warning lights something you could switch on when you know you may be causing a hazard. (especially at night).
Now I know there are technical issues etc with regard to were would it go and how would it look etc so dont ask!
What's your opinion on the proposed laws of 20mph on all urban roads and a maximum 50mph on A class roads.
I have my fingers in my lugs for the outbursts LOL.
northener
17-Dec-09, 17:33
What's your opinion on the proposed laws of 20mph on all urban roads and a maximum 50mph on A class roads.
I have my fingers in my lugs for the outbursts LOL.
'One size fits all' measures rarely work. I'd be all for 20mph speed limits in many bult up areas, but not all.
The same applies to a blanket 50mph limit. Eminently sensible on winding country roads and ridiculous on some others.
The problem is that it would mean applying some logic, planning and expense to evaluate which sections should be restricted. And that won't happe - so we'll be stiffed by the Authorities on this and have to comply to pointless lower limits in many places.
Boozeburglar
20-Dec-09, 00:28
Most BMW, Audi drivers i find are quite fond of doing that, Flat out on a straight then big red lights on the rear on the corners lol.
That is exactly what the road conditions dictate in a lot of circumstances.. I am sure they are usually braking to reduce speed to take the corner, not always because they carried too much speed into the corners, (something the young lads like to do for the rush they get).
:)
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