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froal
11-Dec-09, 23:26
After reading the local paper today i noticed that ' Horsin' Around have new Safety Tabards !
Does it take an Accident on the road for them to wear Reflective gear from now on ? :confused
i personnely wear Reflective gear when riding out on the roads night and Day sunny or cloudy etc for many Years and so do many riders in my Village ! :) Mainly all Adults and the kids i have seen out in my area have nothing Reflective on and as i driver i have met many others with out anything too i'd say there was more not in reflective than in and when the sun is going down it is hard enough to see where i'am going never mind comming face with a horses bum and having to swerve ! cause didn't see them !
Even folk on young horses or horses that aren't good in traffic Yes you should all be wearing something Reflective so drivers slow down i'am sure it's the law if it's not it should be ! and before you all ask i have passed my riding and road safety test !

Leanne
11-Dec-09, 23:49
I have two and never leave the yard without them. They are humorous ones - does my bum look big on this? and "caution lady rider with pmt"

There should be one that says "If you sit on my tail I will sit on your bonnet"

wickchick
12-Dec-09, 00:05
Great post Froal, I totally agree. It shouldnt take an accident to prompt correct safety and riding conduct. Whilst riding on the road saftey should be paramount whether riding on a bike or a horse albeit a horse is an animal and more care should have be taken. Definately not a good example set.

Myself as a horse rider and BHSAI riding instrutor I always ensure reflective and fluorescent tabbards are worn out on the road, what ever the weather or riding experience.

I myself have my BHS Riding and Road saftey qualification and I would definately encourage more riders to gain this qualification as a peace of mind.

The exam involves:
Theory test - This tests the candidate’s knowledge of the Highway Code, Riding and Roadcraft manual and the generally accepted rules of riding on the roads.

The Simulated Road Route - This part takes place in off road conditions, that is, in a totally enclosed area such as a field or indoor school. It is designed to test the rider’s ability to ride appropriately on the road. This includes observations, signalling, manoeuvring and negotiating a series of hazards that they may encounter on the roads. Candidates also undergo a tack and turnout inspection to ensure that all equipment and clothing, of both horse and rider, is in a safe and suitable state for riding.

The Road Route - If the candidate has been successful in passing the first two sections, they will then move on to the road route.

The candidate will follow a set risk assessed route along the roads, so that the examiners can assess their competence in dealing with vehicles and other hazards that they meet.

KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
12-Dec-09, 10:29
Myself as a horse rider and BHSAI riding instrutor I always ensure reflective and fluorescent tabbards are worn out on the road, what ever the weather or riding experience.


As an aside - CONGRATULATIONS on your BHSAI qualification......


But yeah as for Hi Vis - most insurance policies will not cover you if you do not wear Hi Vis out on the road.....

And as an another on the side.... if anyone is interested I have got the Carsington Hi Vis RRP £49.99 which is a waterproof, fitted and fleece lined Hi Vis on sale at £25 right now.....


Another thi g to watch out for is that the HI Vis you do buy meets the European Standards....

wickchick
12-Dec-09, 10:45
Keep on truckin -Thanks

As for insurance not covering if Hi Vis is not worn, totally correct. It is also in favour of the horse rider if an accident happens and they hold their BHS Riding and Road safety.

cameroncara
12-Dec-09, 13:47
I agree with you all, I never go out without hi viz on Bracken has leg wraps, breast plate and exercise sheet. I live in a very quiet area but sometimes you do get a tourist that is not expecting to see a horse on the road and they are driving to fast but i feel when we are wearing the hi viz it definately slows tham down.
Leanne, i do like you suggested comment about sit on my tail i will sit on your bonnet thats great!
x

Jovi
12-Dec-09, 15:11
I don't leave home without all year round,breastplate,leg wraps and vest. I use stirrup tabs on reins in front of martingale stops so that we can be seen from the side at junctions etc. My horses' safety means more to me than being labelled 'a walking christmas tree',a couple of my horses are still learning and I don't want to give other road users the excuse that they can't see us. The roads where I live are very narrow with lots of dips..I want to be seen...I want us both to enjoy getting out on the roads safely. I frequently see other riders with no reflective gear at all and it makes me cringe..I have seen a horse hit by a motorbike....believe me I never want to see anything like that again. :(

froal
12-Dec-09, 15:29
Well i'am glad you all agree ! :D
Thought i might have a war on my hands writting about it ! !
There's plently of reflective garments availible now T-shirts, fleeces, hat covers etc covers all the Seasons ! The tabard i ride out with has 'Thankyou for passing slow' and i always wave at drivers even if they haven't slowed down !
There is a huge diffrence riding with out it people just don't care flying past you not giving you much room for manouvering if your horse even shyies at something at side of road. It does pay for it's self wearing it plus side folk in your area can't complain about you on Riding on the road !!
Some horses you just can't make out on the roads even when it's a lovely sunny day eg; Duns, palomino's !

donnick
12-Dec-09, 16:53
hello all yes i am one of those stupid riders that don't wear my one( which i do have )and it all down to me forgetting i have wore one in the past and found that the car do slow down better when i wear it so why i still don't wear one is pure stupidity on my part BUT from now on i will hunt it out and start to wear again so thanks for the prompt as i forgot about the insurance bit yes Leanne great line for a high vis

divanp75
12-Dec-09, 22:27
Wear a hi vis when i go see the ponies in the field as the more they get use to seeing it the better. In my experience most scary cyclists have hi vis on and more motor bike riders too. At least if the pony has seen hi vis before it is one less thing to think about....

froal
13-Dec-09, 16:00
Very true divanp75 ! :):)
I've got quite a collection of hi vis now yellow and pink and me dogs have yellow and orange the orange really stands out !

John Baikie
13-Dec-09, 17:06
To clear a couple of things up, I wrote the words to the press release, so apologies if it gave the wrong impression.

I included the accident piece in the text to demonstrate the importance of the safety tabards kindly supplied by BNS.

Apologies for any confusion.

wickchick
13-Dec-09, 17:47
Oh, sorry hear to that. I hope the horse wasnt too badly injured and is on the mend.

I hope that Natalie has been in contact with the police as the van driver cannot get away with that. Did she get the van registration number and colour and informed the police straight away?

I will follow the newspaper for any update on catching the bad van man.

KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
13-Dec-09, 18:19
I included the accident piece in the text to demonstrate the importance of the safety tabards kindly supplied by BNS. I didn't realise it was going to cause this silly point scoring nonsense , so hopefully this has cleared any doubts which have been maliciously cast as to how this very successful and popular riding school is run.

Apologies for any confusion.

Crikey I didn't realise there was point scoring going on here.......... just froal opening up discussion about the importance of Hi Vis.....as she feels strongly about this...... in the same way your article has set out to do ..... I don't think anyone has meant any harm... and Wickchick has just set out her standards too which is fair enough .....no one is having a dig....and if more people read this and realise the importance of hi vis then it's all for the better ......

However going back to the slogans that some folk have been mentioning on their own tabbards.... no offence intended Leanne but when i was looking for a tabbard which said " young horse please pass wide and slow" I was advised not only by BHS but others riders that this is just setting yourself up for trouble because if anything happens what will get thrown in your face is......... " you shouldn't be out on the road with a young horse...." etc..... and the whole sit on me tail and i'll sit on your bonnet although amuse fellow riders and motorists with a sense of humour might aggravate those who don't....ending up with more hassle.....


Also there have been studies done around construction sites etc where people are all wearing hi vis.... ie like at Dounreay where I work and the effect of becoming conditioned to seeing Yellow Hi Vis and so not paying enough attention to it..... so froal has the right idea having some pink in there too... there are heaps of products on the market.....

Jovi
13-Dec-09, 18:54
Hi John,I really hope you didn't think my post was 'point scoring'. I made reference to an accident I witnessed a few years ago...totally unaware of the piece written in the paper or the accident that Natalie had. My post was made as I feel strongly that as a rider I have to accept some responsibility for my own and my horses safety and feel that for riders as a group to be given some respect they need to earn it by being safety concious and respectful toward other road users.
I don't know Natalie (and to be honest I have only ever heard good reports of 'Horsin Around') I am so sorry she has had such an awful thing happen,I hope she and her horse are recovering and get over this in time (and hope they find who did it).
K.O.T, I too was advised not to use a tabard which highlighted the fact that I was riding a young/inexperienced horse and worry that slogans will distract drivers,so just use a variety of hi-viz coloured reflective vests depending on the weather conditions.

froal
13-Dec-09, 19:20
Sorry but i was NOT point Scoring !!!
And Thank you Marie-Ann you are right !! I was just making a point there's a lot of folk not wearing Hi Viz ! and i too work in Dounreay and know the importance of being seen and Safety on site ! You bring it home with you and you try to make more people awear of it Not just Horse Riders - DRIVERS Too !!!
The Horsin' around stables speak for them selfs a very popular riding stables young and old and do plenty for Charity too !! and i hope Natalie and her horse make a Full recovery not many can go back riding on the road after that type of accident ! :D

Leanne
13-Dec-09, 19:25
Sorry but i was NOT point Scoring !!!


Don't fret - we all know you weren't :). Great thread!!

donnick
13-Dec-09, 19:36
oh :eek: point scoring when did that come in and how much did i score :lol: i thought it was a discussion about hi vis vest ,i am sure froal was not intending to offend any one but open up a discussion .I hope Natalie and her horse are on the mend. I worked in a trekking centre and know how important safety is as does Natalie am sure as she been doing it for a few years now .

froal
13-Dec-09, 19:44
THANKYOU ALL !!!! :D

There hasn't been a thread on this subject and i kept forgetting to bring it up. So busy reading everybody's elses ! :eek::)

froal
13-Dec-09, 19:58
Just surfing my magazine's and in the November's issue of HorseMart there's a whole section of pages of Hi-Viz products there's some i've never seen before, but with no horse to ride at present can't use much of it !! :(

KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
13-Dec-09, 22:48
oh :eek: Point scoring when did that come in and how much did i score :lol: .

one hundred and eighty......................................

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14-Dec-09, 17:09
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Poppy_88
14-Dec-09, 18:15
There's absolutely no need to have a horse on the road, at any time, High viz or not. It's asking for trouble. A big animal with the strength to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, despite how well schooled or 'experienced' it may be. It is essentially hugely dangerous to everyone; driver, rider, animal. There are plenty of fields and arenas to use to eliminate this dangerous activity, and if not it's still not worth the risk.

divanp75
14-Dec-09, 18:24
Sorry poppy i dont agree with your post.:(

KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
14-Dec-09, 18:32
There's absolutely no need to have a horse on the road, at any time, High viz or not. It's asking for trouble. A big animal with the strength to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, despite how well schooled or 'experienced' it may be. It is essentially hugely dangerous to everyone; driver, rider, animal. There are plenty of fields and arenas to use to eliminate this dangerous activity, and if not it's still not worth the risk.

Sorry no totally don't agree either!! Don't you think if a horse is to be worked and you don't have a trailer to ride it around his own field day in day out might be a bit boring for the animal for a start ? Often all is needed is a short stretch on the road to get to a decent hack or rideable field. Not everyone has the luxury of their own fields or schools to ride in.

froal
14-Dec-09, 19:12
There's absolutely no need to have a horse on the road, at any time, High viz or not. It's asking for trouble. A big animal with the strength to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, despite how well schooled or 'experienced' it may be. It is essentially hugely dangerous to everyone; driver, rider, animal. There are plenty of fields and arenas to use to eliminate this dangerous activity, and if not it's still not worth the risk.
Most of us in caithness have to ride on the roads to go to the local beach forrest etc we don't all have the luxury of a horse trailer/lorry or off road hacking and Arenas on our door step !!
I know i don't....!!

Leanne
14-Dec-09, 19:20
There's absolutely no need to have a horse on the road, at any time, High viz or not. It's asking for trouble. A big animal with the strength to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, despite how well schooled or 'experienced' it may be. It is essentially hugely dangerous to everyone; driver, rider, animal. There are plenty of fields and arenas to use to eliminate this dangerous activity, and if not it's still not worth the risk.

I beg to disagree - not every one has access to fields. For example all of the fields near me are padlocked shut. To get to an unpadlocked one I would have to ride along the wick/thurso road anyway...

Also fields can be dangerous to ride in - rabbit holes, bits of timber, barbed wire, birds that fly up from nowhere (much scarier than a car), not to mention sabre toothed butterflies!!!!

Riders are aware of the risks and for the main part act sensibly on the roads, it is drivers that aren't considerate that cause the spooks. For example I used to ride in the town (sooth of the border) and my horse was fine with all traffic including double decker buses, but when one stopped and put it's air brakes on right next to me at a red light my horse threw a wobbler...

But then with attitudes of some people being "horses shouldn't be on the road" how can you expect a little consideration :(

Horses are allowed on the road and are the only vehicle permissable to travel two abreast (try telling that to the cycle squad ;) ) as stated in the Highway Code. Horses are expensive animals and most riders on the road will have insurance. Even basic horse insurance covers public liability on the roads. Can cyclists say the same?

froal
14-Dec-09, 19:33
Well said........!:D

Trosk
14-Dec-09, 19:35
There's absolutely no need to have a horse on the road, at any time, High viz or not. It's asking for trouble. A big animal with the strength to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, despite how well schooled or 'experienced' it may be. It is essentially hugely dangerous to everyone; driver, rider, animal. There are plenty of fields and arenas to use to eliminate this dangerous activity, and if not it's still not worth the risk.

Horses were here long before cars and arent causing global warming...ie they should have MORE right to the roads, high viz or not. What do you expect us to do...ride round in circles or contribute further to carbon emissions by needlessly clogging up the roads with 4x4s carting our horses to the nearest bridleway everytime we ride (which for me as an example is over 10 miles away). And even if I wanted to ride round in circles, the muddy winter conditions dont permit it. You are either a non-horse owner without a clue or one of the minority with off-road riding right outside your stable door!!???

Leanne
14-Dec-09, 19:38
What do you expect us to do...ride round in circles or contribute further to carbon emissions by needlessly clogging up the roads with 4x4s carting our horses to the nearest bridleway everytime we ride (which for me as an example is over 10 miles away).

I'd forgotten about that - good point :) (I don't have transort so that's me scuppered :( )

Leanne
14-Dec-09, 19:40
Another thing is it's nice to ride out :) Riding in fields is great if you want a blast but a nice pootle along the road it great for making the world a better place and blowing away the cobwebs :)

froal
14-Dec-09, 19:47
Plus it does get a bit boring for horse and rider doodling about the fields but the main part of this thread was about SAFETY on the roads.....!! :D

KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
14-Dec-09, 19:54
I have to admit though I am quite lucky as about 200 yards from my track end there is a path the whole way along the single carriage way (A99) until it takes me to a single track road within a 40mph zone and plenty passing places for the majority of the way before it hits common grazings with heaps of tracks and a beach.

I have one horse who is total bombproof on the road .....oh except when a young kid came up behind me with a plastic bag dangling from each handlebar of it's bike..... but my other is a youngster .... who when he comes home in the spring will err on the side of caution in traffic - luckily enough there is that track where we can be close to vehicles without marching on the road!!

Phoenix200416
14-Dec-09, 20:14
There's absolutely no need to have a horse on the road, at any time, High viz or not. It's asking for trouble. A big animal with the strength to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, despite how well schooled or 'experienced' it may be. It is essentially hugely dangerous to everyone; driver, rider, animal. There are plenty of fields and arenas to use to eliminate this dangerous activity, and if not it's still not worth the risk.

I'm another who strongly disagrees with this post. Horses have as much right to be on the road as any other mode of transport. As has already been mentioned, they are the green way to go. Horses don't cause as much of a problem as people like to think. Ok, you can't pass them as quickly as you can a cyclist, but really you should slow down to pass cyclists anyway. Something could go wrong as you are passing with a cyclist and cause injury.

I have my own Hi-viz vest for riding (not having a horse of my own and riding other people's I find this important) luckily for me the people that I work or know feel the same and often have their own kit for the horse anyway, but there is no harm in being prepared!

I also agree that taking the time to be courtious to other road users can make a big difference. Sometimes you just want to bonk them on the head with a heavy object (meaning discourtious drivers/cyclists e.t.c) but you just have to grin and bear it. Most of the time I find it is just fear and uncertainty with how to deal with a horse and rider. I must say that the majority of other road users that I have encountered have been very good and patient (giving me time to get to a passing place, without revving the engine or getting too close to the horse for example). I guess a lot of the time you have to remember that some people just don't think when they meet a horse on the road and treat the encounter as they would if they met a cyclist or walker. Only difference being that in the horse rider's case they have the problem of a horse having a mind of its own. Not a lot you can do once your horse has had a fright. BUT, if the other road users are a sensible distance away in the first place then accidents can be avoided.

I remember when I was working at a trekking center this summer. I had the misfortune to meet a lorry on a single track road on a young horse that didn't like lorries. I pulled him into a gateway and the lorry slowly began to move past. Unfortunately for me the air brakes went off and my horse jumped over the gate sideways (not a 5 bar gate thank goodness!) I managed to stay on and once he was on the other side he settled down. While this was happening the lorry driver had cut the engine at the first sign of trouble and jumped out the lorry to my aid. Very apologetic and a lovely man. Of course it wasn't his fault (if anything it was mine for not dismounting, he was much better with someone on the ground with him to give him confidence, in the first place or back tracking to a place where there was more room and I told the driver this as well), they can't control the air brakes, but he didn't have to make sure I was ok like he did and it was very much apprieciated. We met a few times after that on the road as there was a house being re-built further up. Never had anymore problems after that first encounter.

donnick
14-Dec-09, 21:58
As a horse owner and car owner who pays my taxes and insurance i think that i have the right to ride my horse on the roads, without harming anyone .Yes horses are big but when trained well can be a very obedient animal ,we cannot however control the things about us that might scare animals .my horse would be bored out her coupin plodding around in a field they do have brains that need stimulation too .I think as long as rider and driver show respect for each other pass wide & slow and rider shows thanks then we can both use the roads in harmony ( with hi vis vest on :lol:)

KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
14-Dec-09, 22:00
( with hi vis vest on :lol:)

Not only did you get the 180 you've got the bullseye now.... you're good at the point scoring!

Phoenix200416
14-Dec-09, 22:12
Not only did you get the 180 you've got the bullseye now.... you're good at the point scoring!
lmao...what was the point scoring comment all about anyway? I see this as a thread about the importance of wearing hi-vis...just because it was created due to an article in the paper doesn't mean its aimed at anyone. I see it as an important topic thats good to be discussed.

"point-scoring" comment is childish IMHO...doesn't look like I'm the only one either.

wickchick
14-Dec-09, 22:49
As a horse owner and car owner who pays my taxes and insurance i think that i have the right to ride my horse on the roads, without harming anyone .Yes horses are big but when trained well can be a very obedient animal ,we cannot however control the things about us that might scare animals .my horse would be bored out her coupin plodding around in a field they do have brains that need stimulation too .I think as long as rider and driver show respect for each other pass wide & slow and rider shows thanks then we can both use the roads in harmony ( with hi vis vest on :lol:)

Totally agree about respect for each other!! Hopefully harmony will be restored :D

Poppy_88
14-Dec-09, 23:45
Yes, absolutely, if you're going to take your horse on the road you have to know what you're doing. (and wear high-viz!)

Of course horses were around before cars, but they are not in this day and age regarded as a mode of transport, and unlike cars, bikes etc are animals with emotions and are therefore unpredictable, (i know some drivers can be, but we have to think about the machine/animal difference). Powerful, fast machines and animals should not, in my opinion, be in such close proximity. Courtesy from drivers can be shown of course, but it is no way guaranteed as i'm sure we as riders have all experienced, so this only heightens the danger of the basic situation. Why risk it?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and has different methods of horse care, i just think that if the road is your ONLY option for exercising your horse (obviously a very important aspect of care) you have to ask yourself if your in the right position, geographically, to keep a horse. Investing in a livery with a school and good off-road hacking rather than trotting around main roads seems like a small price to pay to avoid what could be a very dangerous situation. I know any of mine would be happier with a quick lunge, rather than a risky trot on the road, (If that is all i could give them) only to be spooked by some idiot driving too fast. Stimulation with the risk of a scare? No thanks.

If you have to ride a strecth of road (hopefully quiet) to get a beach or track, so be it, but relating back to the overall point of this thread, at least take great care and get the tabards and boots on.

Only my opinion, i respect everyone has a different take on the subject based on their own situation.

Phoenix200416
14-Dec-09, 23:59
Oh yes Poppy I see where you are coming from now and I understand your point. Avoiding using busy roads is the only way to 100% iradicate the problem. However, some people only have a short hop to get to good off-road hacking. I wouldn't personally hack down a busy main road myself if I could avoid it.

Luckily I live in a quiet area with very little traffic so that isn't a problem for me. Though if hacking was on the other side of the road. I don't think anyone was referring to just hacking on busy roads.

KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
15-Dec-09, 10:36
There's absolutely no need to have a horse on the road, at any time, High viz or not.

Except this is what you said in your original post - there is no need to have a horse on the road at ANY time......

That's just not realistic..... imagine the worst case scenario .....you break down on the motorway and have to pull in to the hard shoulder or are involved in an accident , or wherevere you are hacking and there is some sort of hazard where your horse has to go on the road....(thinking more along lines of having to unload horses from horse box or trailer if on the road) .....

If you have never had your horse on the road at any time before imagine how much it's going to freak being unloaded at the roadside if necessary ....don't you think it's better to have horses who been opended up to as many possible situations as you can ...including roadwork..... look at Lucinda Fredricks....in her tv shows she often talks about not having the facilities of a decent yard whilst she was in her early years and doing a lot of schooling on ROADS and fields....she even demonstrates some excercises on the road that you can use......

froal
15-Dec-09, 19:08
Yip done some of those exercises on the road but have made sure there's nothing comming from both directions.....!!!! :D but i'am mainly hacking out on single track quiet roads not the A9 thou have done in the past (years) lots !
You only seem to see folk out on single tracked roads around here the only riders i've seen on the A9 have been from the riding centre but very rarely now.
Some of us including Me from my area have to lead our horses down the road to fields else where too, from 1 - 2 miles as we don't have transport to load them down the road ! Tend to have lots of Hi Viz on most folk park up in a passing place to let us pass which i think is very nice of them, as long as it's not too far as i have to Run don't do Running !!:)

cat
15-Dec-09, 22:14
id love my own sand school,would get bored in it every day though!its not practical or possible to travel to indoor for everyone either,it costs a bit and we dont all have transport,also it takes time to do this and with other commitments its not always easy for everyone to use it when it takes up 3 hours of your time to get there and back.
i think learner drivers should be taught how to approach horses on the road,or maybe they are now??
i know even single track roads can be dangerous too,most people are great,but there are the ones that drive right up to you,and verges can be bit dodgy,esp ones with big ditches,i know as i landed in one and lay thinking horse was coming in on top of me,thankfully not though,and it was a bombproof horse,hadnt seen a combine though,and it wasnt even the time of year to expect to meet one,im a coward and would definately not of been on the road had it of been harvest time!
thanks for post though,will need to get new high viz,it looks much nicer more interesting than the old vests:)

froal
16-Dec-09, 19:20
Cat - eek's i hate big ditches ! i would won't to try passing a combine either not very nice. AT least your ok.....!!! :D

divanp75
16-Dec-09, 21:23
I still dont agree with some of what has been said.

Horses and ponies were the main form of transport for decades. They have been down mines, worked in busy london streets etc etc etc.

It is part of all horses and ponies lives to be able to safely go out on the road where that be a A road, B road or farm track.

It is an essentual part of their training to see and not be afraid of traffic (cars, buses and lorries) as it is for drivers to understand what rights horses have on the road and take care when driving near horses and ponies on the road.

Horse and pony owners do there animals a great disfavour if they do not get there animals use to traffic at a young age and regular exposer is the only way to do this.

moan over :(