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porshiepoo
22-Apr-06, 10:57
Lost yesterday from Lybster.
My daughter was out with her buzzard yesterday and unfortunately it got spooked by one of the low flying aircraft. She thought she'd clipped the lead to her jacket but she must have missed and didn't realise, so the buzzard is now flying with a 3ft lead attatched.
The buzzard is a female and in good condition, has both her jesses on but fortunately the jesses are not tied together so both her feet are free and independant.
This buzzard is a wild one that was in an car accident and was released back to the same area but had to be rescued again as it couldn't fend for itself. We got her from a bird of prey rescue centre.
Although my daughter can handle this bird she is not tame and has not been flight trained so will not come back.
We're hoping that she'll come back once she's hungry and fortunately (in one sense) she hadn't been fed so she's gonna be hanging around.
We have seen her but the crows are between her and us so we're not sure whether she'll get through.
I'm just putting something on here for local folk to know that we know she's loose and we're doing all we can to get her back, however any sightings of a bird of prey with a lead hanging we'd appreciate a pm.

nicnak
22-Apr-06, 11:09
hope you find her. will keep a look out for you around here.
nicnak

Rheghead
22-Apr-06, 12:03
First it was an eagle owl, now it is a buzzard. A pattern is developing. I do hope you find it though.

porshiepoo
22-Apr-06, 16:55
First it was an eagle owl, now it is a buzzard. A pattern is developing. I do hope you find it though.


I knew some ignorant person on here was going to make that comment, bit suprised it came from you though Rheghead, I gave you more credit than that.

Yes, we did lose the eagle owl however, when that escaped it was being looked after by someone we were paying. No excuse I know but it was an accident and we were living back in England at the time.

This buzzard was slightly different and my daughter at 15 has taken full responsibility for it and although she has told us the reason the bird was spooked she accepts that her was responsiblity to double check that the lead was clipped to her as it should have been.
This was a pure accident Rheghead, she takes that bird out every single day.

Not suprising I was extremely reluctant to even put anything on here about it is it with comments like that.

Gleber2
22-Apr-06, 16:59
Ah hope yon burd disna atteck elephants.

Liz
22-Apr-06, 18:45
So sorry to hear about the buzzard Porshiepoo. Really hope you get her back soon.

As you said it was an accident and your daughter must feel awful!:~(

footie chick
22-Apr-06, 19:07
Hope you get buzzard back soon they are lovely birds have one that sits at the bottom of my garden has done for the last couple of years think it has a nest somewhere near.

Rheghead
22-Apr-06, 20:44
I knew some ignorant person on here was going to make that comment, bit suprised it came from you though Rheghead.

I have always been of the opinion that animals such as birds of prey should be either in the wild or in a proper aviary but only if they are rescue birds or part of an organised conservation programme.

There are plenty of normal animals to have as pets such as dogs , cats and hamsters etc to fill the need for animal husbandry.

porshiepoo
22-Apr-06, 21:19
I have always been of the opinion that animals such as birds of prey should be either in the wild or in a proper aviary but only if they are rescue birds or part of an organised conservation programme.

There are plenty of normal animals to have as pets such as dogs , cats and hamsters etc to fill the need for animal husbandry.


And I have the exact same feeling Rheghead, which is why I choose not to have birds of prey. My husband and kids on the other hand love these animals, keep them in very big aviarys and spend a great deal of time with them.

If you'd bothered to ask before making unconstructive, ignorant and nasty comments you'd have found that although my daughter has 3 of these birds every single one of them is a rescue. She has spent alot of time with these birds and done extremely well with them even though one of them only has 1 wing and is still very wild.

My daughter already has to accept the fact that because she wasn't as alert as she maybe should have been,she now faces the fact that she may never get this bird back. (incidentally named Paris).

Personally, if it wasn't for the fact that the lead is still attatched, I'd be hoping that she manages to make it, however unlikely.

JAWS
22-Apr-06, 21:21
Rheghead, I got the impression that it was a rescue bird which had shown it was unable to fend for itself in the wild.

Rheghead
22-Apr-06, 21:42
And I have the exact same feeling Rheghead, which is why I choose not to have birds of prey. My husband and kids on the other hand love these animals, keep them in very big aviarys and spend a great deal of time with them.

If you'd bothered to ask before making unconstructive, ignorant and nasty comments you'd have found that although my daughter has 3 of these birds every single one of them is a rescue. She has spent alot of time with these birds and done extremely well with them even though one of them only has 1 wing and is still very wild.

My daughter already has to accept the fact that because she wasn't as alert as she maybe should have been,she now faces the fact that she may never get this bird back. (incidentally named Paris).

Personally, if it wasn't for the fact that the lead is still attatched, I'd be hoping that she manages to make it, however unlikely.

So they are still pets at the end of the day. They should be in a proper sanctuary.

No nastiness intended just my opinion, the fact that you have seen nastiness in my comments is due to the fact that you disapprove of your husband and daughters actions and you have not the gaul to tackle them about it instead you have accused me of being nasty as a vent for your own frustration. The fact that you so far have proved so far to be totally irreponsible in keeping these birds only serves to add to your own guilt. As I said, they should be in a sanctuary where they will get 24/7 care. Your track record has so far not been good for all your excuses.

JAWS
23-Apr-06, 03:49
Porsiepoo, I'd love to keep birds of prey except I don't have the patience to do it. They are wasted when they are wild and you can't get close enough to admire the detail of their plumage.

If I could have any animal to keep as a pet then I would choose cheetahs. I understand they make wonderful pets and are also very good hunters.

Meanwhile I suppose I'll have to stick with my semi-house-trained wolf descendants.
I have to restrain them from resorting to their wild habits as ex wild wolves in order to prevent them chasing the caged sheep in the next field, poor captured and restrained creatures as they are.

I believe all field boundaries should be grubbed out so all animals can have their freedom. I hate seeing any animal restrained by artificial boundaries.

Freedom is what they deserve and freedom is what they should be allowed. Besides, they would keep my conserved cheetahs entertained and fit chasing them.
Of course, should they escape I would feel no guilt whatsoever. I would simple consider that they had achieved their freedom in order to return to their natural state.
I do so hope nobody out there keeps budgerigars.

webmannie
23-Apr-06, 08:11
had to be rescued again as it couldn't fend for itself.

Laws of the wild, it should have been left alone. Unless it was injured again?

Why couldn't it be released to the wild just now? If it didn't have the lead tied to it's leg, I would have said leave it alone and let the laws of nature takeover.

porshiepoo
23-Apr-06, 08:20
Jaws: I agree totally lol. Lets hope theres not too many people out there keeping goldfish indoors or koi in their garden ponds or else they're liable for Rheghead's freedom rantings. lol. And as for all you horsey people, you ain't safe neither - those horses should be set free to live life out in the wild, (fingers crossed they can survive out there) unrestricted by paddock fencings or the comforts and love you give them, being hunted by Jaws' wolf descendant dogs or cheetahs he's had to release lol.
Even Balmore won't be safe from Rhegheads rantings eh, poor defenceless doggies and kitttens being kept in those cages whilst trying to find loving, caring forever homes. Balmore should release them all and give them the freedom they deserve. They should be able to run free and wild with the pet rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, budgies, horses, and sheep and drink from rivers filled with pet koi, goldfish, terrapins etc etc. So next time any of you make a posting on here for a lost pet Remember - Rheghead's watching youuuuu! ;)

Rheghead: You're ignorance, insensitivity and complete lack of knowledge astounds me.
yes, We could set these birds free ( we never bred any of them) and let them attempt to fend for themselves in the wild but is that the kinder thing to do???
I've admitted that I don't particularly like to see birds in aviaries, the same as I don't like to know lambs are bred for slaughter etc, but contrary to what you seem to think my family are well aware of how I feel, I have no problems whatsoever telling them.
However, the buzzards were wild and in car accidents, one has lost a wing, one was rescued by someone and kept cruelly in a razorwire cage where she lost every feather and resembled a chicken when we got to her. When release was attempted the two that could fly couldn't survive and had to be re-rescued.
What is the difference between the sanctuary keeping them and us Rheghead? Have you been to some of these 'sanctuaries'? Alot of the birds are kept on T-bars outside 24/7 because they simply don't have the room or facilities for the amount of birds that come in.
Here, they have their own flights, their own indoor areas and they get care 24/7 as well as more handling than they've ever had.
We would never breed any of these animals as we know there are plenty out there that could do with rescueing and thats where we're more happy to help.
Incidentally Rheghead, Jaws made another good point. We have alot of people asking to come and look at these birds, which we're more than happy with and it's the only chance they get to see these magnificent birds up close.
So, next time you want to make such accusations Rheghead I suggest you go and look at some of these sanctuaries you stand up for and if you still feel the same about them after that, well then that makes you a worse person than I'll ever be.

porshiepoo
23-Apr-06, 08:28
Laws of the wild, it should have been left alone. Unless it was injured again?

I respect your view there, especially as you don't put it in such an insensitive way as Rheghead.



Why couldn't it be released to the wild just now? If it didn't have the lead tied to it's leg, I would have said leave it alone and let the laws of nature takeover.


Even my daughter, who loves this bird more than anything, has said that if it wasn't for the lead attatched she'd be praying for the bird to make it in the wild. All of us would get a great kick out of knowing she's free and managing to survive.
As for the one with one wing - well it's obvious why that one couldn't be re-released, and yes personally if it had been us that had rescued it in the first place we probably would have had it put to sleep rather than restrict her to a life of captivity. But it wasn't us that rescued her initially.
The other one we rescued from someone who kept her in a razorwire cage, perhaps my husband should have just left her and let the 'laws of nature' take over [mad] . I guess we're just not kind enough for that eh!

webmannie
23-Apr-06, 08:48
yes, We could set these birds free ( we never bred any of them) and let them attempt to fend for themselves in the wild but is that the kinder thing to do???

If they are fit enough and there is no reason not to. They should be trained to fend for themselves and if successful, released.

See http://www.birds-of-prey.org/archives/2005/11/quality_of_life.php for whether it is kind or not. Look at the link to The “Minimum Standards for Wildlife Rehabilitation”, page 50, provides guidelines for release conditions.

porshiepoo
23-Apr-06, 09:11
If they are fit enough and there is no reason not to. They should be trained to fend for themselves and if successful, released.

See http://www.birds-of-prey.org/archives/2005/11/quality_of_life.php for whether it is kind or not. Look at the link to The “Minimum Standards for Wildlife Rehabilitation”, page 50, provides guidelines for release conditions.


Okey dokey I can see I'm kinda banging my head against a brick wall here.

Firstly, the sanctuary did attempt to re-release this buzzard but the release failed. They made their decision, with all their information and wisdom that this bird could not be released again. OK.
The second buzzard has 1 wing only so obviously cannot be released.
The third buzzard we have quite a limited background on. We believe she may have been wild but in any case lost all her feathers due to razor wire. Once a year this poor bird loses feathers and so cannot fly all the time. She is also too hand tame now to release with any real optimism that she'll survive.
Incidentally, if the sanctuary had said to us that we take these birds on the condition that we attempt a rehabilitation programme with them, we would have walked away. We have no expertise in that area and would essentially do more harm than good.

The eagle owls and the barn owl were hand reared (not by us) and we bought them from people who were either having to give them up or just couldn't look after them any longer, obviously these birds have no hope for any kind of freedom attempt.

I really do understand where you're coming from though, I have very similar feelings about caged birds of any kind but I also know the conditions that we got these birds from. Maybe you are someone who could walk away from a distressed bird and feel great knowing you let nature take over, personally we couldn't, just the same as I couldn't walk away from a human or any other animal in distress. Now maybe thats a major flaw on our part but if thats as bad as we get then we'll learn to live with it.

webmannie
23-Apr-06, 09:23
Firstly don't assume i'm an imbecile, I had read your previous postings, do you honestly think I am endorsing that a bird with one wing should be released?

Think you better revisit my responses. I said
If they are fit enough and there is no reason not to.

You are 'banging your head against a brick wall' because you did not supply the full facts

pultneytooner
23-Apr-06, 09:44
As far as I can understand, these birds are not capable of surviving in the wild and porshies family provide shelter, food and kindness for these birds and they should be applauded, not villified.
At least they are keeping them for the right reasons.
The bird escaped, it was an accident and her daughter probably feels bad enough about it without needing to be told.

Rheghead
23-Apr-06, 09:50
Rheghead: You're ignorance, insensitivity and complete lack of knowledge astounds me.
yes, We could set these birds free ( we never bred any of them) and let them attempt to fend for themselves in the wild but is that the kinder thing to do???
I've admitted that I don't particularly like to see birds in aviaries, the same as I don't like to know lambs are bred for slaughter etc, but contrary to what you seem to think my family are well aware of how I feel, I have no problems whatsoever telling them.
However, the buzzards were wild and in car accidents, one has lost a wing, one was rescued by someone and kept cruelly in a razorwire cage where she lost every feather and resembled a chicken when we got to her. When release was attempted the two that could fly couldn't survive and had to be re-rescued.
What is the difference between the sanctuary keeping them and us Rheghead? Have you been to some of these 'sanctuaries'? Alot of the birds are kept on T-bars outside 24/7 because they simply don't have the room or facilities for the amount of birds that come in.
Here, they have their own flights, their own indoor areas and they get care 24/7 as well as more handling than they've ever had.
We would never breed any of these animals as we know there are plenty out there that could do with rescueing and thats where we're more happy to help.
Incidentally Rheghead, Jaws made another good point. We have alot of people asking to come and look at these birds, which we're more than happy with and it's the only chance they get to see these magnificent birds up close.
So, next time you want to make such accusations Rheghead I suggest you go and look at some of these sanctuaries you stand up for and if you still feel the same about them after that, well then that makes you a worse person than I'll ever be.

Porshie, let me get this straight,

You call me ignorant and insensitive, yet we BOTH agree that keeping these birds is the wrong thing to do, AND you admit to making your feelings quite clear to your husband and daughter AND you say that you keeping these birds is no worse than keeping them in a sanctuary yet you slag them off for not being up to scratch AND like me you have thought that it may be kinder to let them go free AND YOU have the gall to call me insensitive and ignorant?

Personally, my position is that these birds should have been left in the wild to fend for themselves, they are wild animals afterall. It is cruel to shelter these animals.

pultneytooner
23-Apr-06, 10:07
Budgies, canaries et al, were wild once, is it okay to breed them just so someone can keep them in a wee cage, I've heard of parrots plucking their feathers out through sheer depression?
Better these wild birds live the good life at porshies place rather than die in the wild where they can't survive.

porshiepoo
23-Apr-06, 10:32
Porshie, let me get this straight,

You call me ignorant and insensitive, yet we BOTH agree that keeping these birds is the wrong thing to do, AND you admit to making your feelings quite clear to your husband and daughter AND you say that you keeping these birds is no worse than keeping them in a sanctuary yet you slag them off for not being up to scratch AND like me you have thought that it may be kinder to let them go free AND YOU have the gall to call me insensitive and ignorant?

Personally, my position is that these birds should have been left in the wild to fend for themselves, they are wild animals afterall. It is cruel to shelter these animals.


Hmmm, on quite a high horse there aren't you Rheghead!
First off, I never said keeping these birds is 'wrong', I said I don't particularly like the idea of birds in aviaries however these are rescue birds.
Yes, I have made my feelings clear to my husband and kids that I don't like seeing birds inaviaries, however even I can see that these birds do need to be aviaries.
With reference to the sanctuaries, I was merely pointing out that in your uneducated ignorance on this particular matter, our place is a damn sight better than the squalor that some of these birds came from.

When exactly did I say it would be kinder to let them go free Rheghead?
What I did say, which you would know if you weren't so blinkered and ignorant is that I would love for this bird to manage to survive in the wild. However, we know that is highly unlikely.

Cruel to shelter these animals Rheghead?
Have you no pets or never had any pets?
Remember, we didn't rescue these birds from the wild, sanctuaries did. All we did was give them a home so that the sanctuaries can go on helping those that need it more than the ones that are now healthy albeit unable to be released.

Finally, yes you are insensitive. That was no need for a remark like the one you made re the eagle owl and now the buzzard, we all know what you meant and what you were inferring.
Having an opinion is one thing but yours is based on ignorant idealism, you make snap judgements without knowing the facts so therefore yes, I think you are ignorant, insensitive, nasty and a million and one other things that I would get banned if I called you on here.

porshiepoo
23-Apr-06, 10:36
Firstly don't assume i'm an imbecile, I had read your previous postings, do you honestly think I am endorsing that a bird with one wing should be released?

Think you better revisit my responses. I said

You are 'banging your head against a brick wall' because you did not supply the full facts


Well then you must be an imbecile because if you'd read those postings properly you would see that I stated from the start that this bird, or the others, cannot be re-released.
So your comments about releasing it can only be taken the same as Rhegheads, ignorant idealism with no knowledge other than a snippet you find on the web of what you're actually talking about.

Rheghead
23-Apr-06, 10:55
Yes, I have made my feelings clear to my husband and kids that I don't like seeing birds inaviaries

Then you are no different to me, I don't either.



When exactly did I say it would be kinder to let them go free Rheghead?

I never said that you said that you think it is kinder to let them go free, I meant to say that you have wrestled with the ethics of letting them go free, quite different.



Cruel to shelter these animals Rheghead?
Have you no pets or never had any pets?
A different arguement altogether, as you said, these are recue birds from other sources or the wild, they are not breeds, they are species.

Remember, we didn't rescue these birds from the wild, sanctuaries did. All we did was give them a home so that the sanctuaries can go on helping those that need it more than the ones that are now healthy albeit unable to be released.
You are just perpetuating the captivity of an animal that has no reason to be in captivity


Finally, yes you are insensitive. That was no need for a remark like the one you made re the eagle owl and now the buzzard, we all know what you meant and what you were inferring.

Quite possibly, but you are irresponsible to the birds that you are keeping, how many more birds need to escape from your sanctuary in the next 6 months for you to accept that you are irresponsible? 1? 2? 10? So far your track record has not been good.

I've done now with this thread before it degenerates anymore. I hope you find your buzzard and that your daughter feels a lot better.

porshiepoo
23-Apr-06, 11:21
Quite possibly, but you are irresponsible to the birds that you are keeping, how many more birds need to escape from your sanctuary in the next 6 months for you to accept that you are irresponsible? 1? 2? 10? So far your track record has not been good.



In all the years that my husband has had these birds, we've had 2 escapees including this one. The other one as you know was caught almost on it's deathbed and taken to Balmore where they looked after him till we got there.
To me, thats not such a bad track record.




You have only resorted to stooping to personal attacks that aren't warranted, which I haven't, mine are warranted by your own admission.
[/QUOTE]

We both know your initial comment was a personal attack disguised as 'observation' and certainly not 'warranted'.


Never the mind though. I accept we're all going to have different ideals and views on this subject. My only hope is that this situation is rectified in whatever way is best for the bird.

To all of you who have sent me messages of support, thank you, it's very nice to hear.

DW
23-Apr-06, 11:41
Jings, this buzzard HAS caused a bit of a flap :lol:

willowbankbear
23-Apr-06, 11:46
No cats or elephants involved either for a change? surely someone can bring them into the equation?

webmannie
23-Apr-06, 12:30
Well then you must be an imbecile because if you'd read those postings properly you would see that I stated from the start that this bird, or the others, cannot be re-released.
So your comments about releasing it can only be taken the same as Rhegheads, ignorant idealism with no knowledge other than a snippet you find on the web of what you're actually talking about.

You never stated from the start why this bird could not be released, you stated that it had been released and then re-captured because it could not fend for itself. Why couldn't it?

Due to carelessness, we will never know if it could fend for itself, it will most likely be found tethered to a tree or fencepost, hopefully sooner rather than later.

I don't personally care what your thoughts of me are, if it makes you feel better about the situation then lash at it. I asked you not to make me out an imbecile because you inferred that i advocated releasing a one winged bird and a razor wired bird to the wild.

Gleber2
23-Apr-06, 12:33
No cats or elephants involved either for a change? surely someone can bring them into the equation?

Not true go back a bit.

ice box
23-Apr-06, 12:52
I just have one question to ask you all .

Do you ever see a buzzard or a barn owl for sale in a pet shop ?

2little2late
23-Apr-06, 13:55
Porshiepoo, I can see where you are coming from. I totally agree with what you are achieving with the help and care you are giving these animals. There is nothing wrong with keeping animals in captivity provoded they are given the correct form of care and attention.

Is it wrong then to keep animals in zoos? Perhaps we should all release our own pets into the wild after all this is where they started off isn't it?

Keep up the good work porshiepoo.

unicorn
23-Apr-06, 14:02
Regardless of everyone's thoughts on whether it is correct or not to keep this bird in captivity, I hope you get it back very soon as with that leash dangling he could obviously be in a great deal of trouble and I am sure nobody would wish that on any animal.

porshiepoo
23-Apr-06, 14:39
My daughter has sighted the bird a while ago.
She literally came in crying and collapsed at the side of the settee. She said she was crying out of sheer relief that it's still alive and joy at seeing it. The lead is still attatched which is giving great cause for concern, but the good thing is she's stayed within the boundaries of our property and the next so we're hoping for a good result.

Thanks again for all your support.
I have to admit it's not nice to hear of people making derogatory comments about this but if it's something Rheghead et al feel passionate about then they have a right to voice it, I would just have preferred them to have opened their own topic on the rights of wrongs of captive animals and not jumped on this band wagon.

unicorn
23-Apr-06, 14:55
thats good news then lets just hope it gets hungry enough to come back easily.

2little2late
23-Apr-06, 15:01
I really do hope the bird comes back. This reminds me of the film Kes. Quite a sad film about a boy's obsession with a kestrel which he hand reared.
Good luck.

unicorn
23-Apr-06, 15:02
A kestrel for a knave was the name of the book, we had to read it in english It really was a good story.

elaine
23-Apr-06, 17:17
gawd, lay off porshiepoo - she didn't hatch the eggs and keep them in a cage - someone else did that! It seems to me that all she is doing is caring for birds who were already unreleasable - what's wrong with that?

I'm sure the birds would rather be fed, watered, exercised, and safe from harm - than dead, even if it is not the natural order of things. I, myself, say stuff the natural order of things - these birds were not brought up naturally (btw hello - this is not porshie's fault) so if they can have a protected, safe life now with someone willing to do it - great! ok, we all agree it's not ideal - but this is not a perfect world - all birds do not have both their wings and lucky for him that it's not his death sentence!

(Is it just me, or is the wrong person taking all the flack for bird captivity?)

Anyhoo, rant over! Glad the bird is ok and hope you get it home safe and sound soon.

highlander
23-Apr-06, 18:17
I really hope you manage to find the buzzard safe and well, if not only for the birds sake, but also for your daughters, it shows what careing people you are, good luck

JAWS
24-Apr-06, 05:31
It seems to me that an awful lot of people with very few facts are willing to be disparaging of others actions.

I can see that an attitude of, "I don't like it so you shouldn't be doing it." is alive and growing.

Modern Society would do well to remember the words of Thomas Babbington Macauley in 1843, "We know of no spectacle so ridiculous as the British public in one of it's periodical moods of morality."

And how that ridiculous spectacle is growing. We are becoming a society so wrapped up in our own egos that we cannot help but lecture others on their lack of moral behaviour when compared to our own.
How smug and self congratulatory we sometimes are in our belief that we are so superior in our morality that others who believe differently.

Personally, I am absolutely horrified that anybody should partake of anything with an egg in it. I believe eggs should be allowed their freedom to live or rot as nature intended.
I am also horrified at the slaughter of wild things which have occurred to make each drop of water we drink!

Oh how condemnatory I can be when I set my mind to it. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Think of all those poor creatures you will thoughtlessly crush underfoot when you walk round tomorrow and how many wee things you will slaughter with your Hoovering, polishing and dusting.

I feel so ashamed of myself that I am going to be forced to release my elephant before I am condemned looking after it! At least I'll have a bit more room in my bed when I do! :lol:

I don't care what you are doing but I think it is absolutely disgraceful and should be banned immediately! Whatever it is, stop it at one because it offends my sensibilities!

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 09:45
On the sanctimonial higher moral highground again, jaws?

paris
24-Apr-06, 10:17
Hi there porshie, sorry to hear PARIS has got loose, she will be fine im sure. ! Tell S not to worry , i know what shes like she will make herself ill over it.
What the hells wrong with peeps on here????? All you were asking is for peeps to keep an eye out for her not to get the ear bashing you certainly dont deserve.
To anyone reading this......I have know porshie for a good few years now and can tell you all that she and her family are very very good people who have helped/homed/rescued many an animal in danger. They do not take on these things lightly nor do they ask anyone for the huge amounts of petrol money to go to collect these animals, which i may add could be around a good few hundred miles. This doesnt just include wild animals it covers demesticated ones aswell , so the vile comments some of you have posted are well and truely uncalled for. Before you start slagging of get your facts right or keep quiet. Paris x

badger
24-Apr-06, 10:28
I too hope Porshie's bird comes back soon so they can all be happy again. As for the rest - a quick death is better than a long miserable captivity so I don't lose too much sleep over all the wee beasties we kill all the time (I don't invite bugs into my house so they have to take what's coming although I do now have a humane spider catcher). Many animals are much safer and healthier, so presumably happier, looked after by humans in suitable conditions e.g. chickens scratching around the garden or even birds of prey that cannot fend for themselves.

The ones I get really upset about are the animals and birds kept in small cages for whatever reason. So I do hope all those people slamming down on Porshiepoo have never ever eaten an egg from a battery chicken, or indeed a battery chicken, or anything containing pork from the EU etc. etc.; or keep pets in small cages/hutches where they don't have space to fly or run around.

Please let us know Porshie when your bird returns.

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 10:32
They do not take on these things lightly nor do they ask anyone for the huge amounts of petrol money to go to collect these animals, which i may add could be around a good few hundred miles. This doesnt just include wild animals it covers demesticated ones aswell , so the vile comments some of you have posted are well and truely uncalled for. Before you start slagging of get your facts right or keep quiet. Paris x

Global warming is one of the biggest threats to wildlife. So not only is Porshie contributing to GW by travelling hundreds of miles but she also risks injury to other birds and animals that may stray into her path, just to rescue ONE bird that will no longer return to the wild or contribute to a captive breeding programme. Call me heartless, but these ARE the facts, more harm can be done out of well intentioned but misguided actions.

Buzzards are ten-a-penny now in the north so they are no longer under any population strain.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 15:32
Global warming is one of the biggest threats to wildlife. So not only is Porshie contributing to GW by travelling hundreds of miles but she also risks injury to other birds and animals that may stray into her path, just to rescue ONE bird that will no longer return to the wild or contribute to a captive breeding programme. Call me heartless, but these ARE the facts, more harm can be done out of well intentioned but misguided actions.

Buzzards are ten-a-penny now in the north so they are no longer under any population strain.


OMG Rheghead, nowI know you're just taking the proverbial 'p'word.


By the way, thank you Paris (the orger. lol) Great to hear from you.

paris
24-Apr-06, 16:38
Global warming is one of the biggest threats to wildlife. So not only is Porshie contributing to GW by travelling hundreds of miles but she also risks injury to other birds and animals that may stray into her path, just to rescue ONE bird that will no longer return to the wild or contribute to a captive breeding programme. Call me heartless, but these ARE the facts, more harm can be done out of well intentioned but misguided actions.

Buzzards are ten-a-penny now in the north so they are no longer under any population strain.

For god sake get a life !!!!!! Are you having a laugh winding people up or what? Grow up man !!! Shes doing a job that maybe you wouldnt do but thank god for people like her !!

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 16:50
Sorry Porshie, I am not taking it, global warming is a real danger and birds do get killed regularly by traffic, we all have killed birds, so you may be claiming a pyricc victory, in the name of animal conservation.

For some time now, I have taken a keen interest in conservation and birdwatching, I have even got a degree in the Environment. So calling me ignorant and insensitive to wildlife and conservation simply does not wash with me, it is one of my passions. Since September, I have been doing a nightclass in Birdwatching and have become accustomed to procedures of recording species around the county. If I recorded an Eagle owl in the County to the recorder, it would just simply get ignored simply because there are people around who accidentally free or intentionally wild animals that are totally alien to the British fauna. Recognised bodies, like the RSPB rely on such recordings to allow them to monitor the health our native species but it is compounded by these irresponsible releases, these alien species cause untold damage, take the grey squirrel and the racing pigeon for two well known examples. Just because we don't think of the damage(because it is not obvious) that we do by interfering with our wildlife that doesn't mean that damage isn't being done.

I can hear all sorts of people disagreeing with me already and they will be quick to point out animal domesticated animals and their effect to justify what you are doing, but really, that is a different issue, these animals have been bred over thousands of years as our pets/domestic animals, iow they have right to be in our custody, buzzards and eagle owls do not qualify. If they did then what next? Foxes, lions and giraffes?

I am guilty of feeding birds on a bird table, nowt wrong in that most people would say, but there is. I could be guilty of promoting the food of one species to the expense of others, for example, the Great tit, which attacks and sometimes predates on Blue tits, but both can be seen on the table. This raises ethical issues that most people have never really thought of. Ignorant? Nah, Insensitive? Nah, but a charge of double standards can possibly be substantiated. It is only my vanity of wanting to see birds on my table that keeps me feeding them.

Likewise, I have come to the opinion that your so-called aviary is rooted in your vanity , masquarading as an animal rescue operation. Though I do empathise with what you are doing funnily enough, your motives are sound, your methods, argueably aren't. :grin:

Tugmistress
24-Apr-06, 17:26
Since September, I have been doing a nightclass in Birdwatching and have become accustomed to procedures of recording species around the county. If I recorded an Eagle owl in the County to the recorder, it would just simply get ignored simply because there are people around who accidentally free or intentionally wild animals that are totally alien to the British fauna.
sorry rheghead i'll take issue with you on this point! the european eagle owl WAS native to these lands until approx 100 yrs ago i believe (don't quote me on actual time but it was native here). yes i will agree with you, any repopulation is through either intentional release or escapees, but it is not a alien.

edited to add the following
The largest species of owl in the world, the European eagle owl lives
all over mainland Europe and is particularly concentrated in
Scandinavia. Formerly found in Britain, it has been absent here since
the eighteenth century.
Like all woodland owls it has prominent tufts on its head. These are
not ears, which like all owls are hidden openings in the downy feathers
on the front of the face. Instead, the tufts possibly have a role in
display and attracting a mate.
They can live up to 40 years in the wild, even longer in captivity. Eagle
owls are nocturnal and have excellent night vision and hearing to hunt
in woodland areas at night. Their diet is entirely meat, consisting
mostly of mice, voles and rats but their tremendous size and power
also means they are easily capable of taking rabbits or even small deer.
Origin: Native; extinct in Britain since 18th century except for occasional European vagrants.
Size: 65 - 70 cm. Females are larger than males and can weigh up to 4 kg (9 lbs).
Description: Largest owl in the world. Tall, upright. Prominent ear tufts, large orange eyes.
Habitat: Forests, woodland, rocky and mountain areas.
Young: One or two eggs hatch after 35 days, start to fly after eight weeks and fully independent after
six months.
Nest: In a rocky crevice lined with a few feathers.
Diet: Carnivorous; small mammals, but can take anything up to the size of a fox or small deer.
Population: No significant native breeding population.
British distribution
European Eagle Owl - Bubo bubo

taken from http://www.britishwildlifecentre.co.uk/education/factsheets/Eagle%20Owl.pdf

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 17:33
sorry rheghead i'll take issue with you on this point! the european eagle owl WAS native to these lands until approx 100 yrs ago i believe (don't quote me on actual time but it was native here). yes i will agree with you, any repopulation is through either intentional release or escapees, but it is not a alien.

I agree, which makes my point all the more poignant, in that any natural reintroductions get recorded as genuine rather than to be dismissed as 'just another escapee'.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 17:37
Sorry Porshie, I am not taking it, global warming is a real danger and birds do get killed regularly by traffic, we all have killed birds, so you may be claiming a pyricc victory, in the name of animal conservation.

I promised myself I wasn't going to do this but I find myself, yet agin, being drawn into your whimsical opinions Rheghead. LOL


For some time now, I have taken a keen interest in conservation and birdwatching, I have even got a degree in the Environment. So calling me ignorant and insensitive to wildlife and conservation simply does not wash with me, it is one of my passions.

If you look again and read properly instead of seeing what you want Rheghead you'll see that I actually called you insensitive toward my daughters feelings and the situation she now has with the bird.


Since September, I have been doing a nightclass in Birdwatching and have become accustomed to procedures of recording species around the county. If I recorded an Eagle owl in the County to the recorder, it would just simply get ignored simply because there are people around who accidentally free or intentionally wild animals that are totally alien to the British fauna. Recognised bodies, like the RSPB rely on such recordings to allow them to monitor the health our native species but it is compounded by these irresponsible releases, these alien species cause untold damage, take the grey squirrel and the racing pigeon for two well known examples. Just because we don't think of the damage(because it is not obvious) that we do by interfering with our wildlife that doesn't mean that damage isn't being done.

I'm quite sure that the 3 buzzards we have are not going to have any damaging impact on the buzzard population in general.
Personally, I'd love to see the introduction of Eagle owls into Britain and I would be completely behind a breeding programme and help in anyway I could.
As for the damage being done. Get a life Rheggers! Do you not take a car, taxi, bus, train or aeroplane anywhere? You're as guilty of damaging the flora and fauna as I or the next person is.
So you choose not to keep birds of prey, great thats your perogative, however my husband chooses to help these animals that have been damaged, cannot be released but are to healthy to destroy. Why should we turn our back on a healthy animal just because people like you say it should be so?


I can hear all sorts of people disagreeing with me already and they will be quick to point out animal domesticated animals and their effect to justify what you are doing, but really, that is a different issue, these animals have been bred over thousands of years as our pets/domestic animals, iow they have right to be in our custody, buzzards and eagle owls do not qualify. If they did then what next? Foxes, lions and giraffes?

And that makes it ok does it Rheghead? Man has domesticated these animals so it's ok to keep them but not buzzards or eagle owls? The parents and Grandparents of our owls were all captive bred so in theory ours have been domesticated to an extent.
As for the giraffes, foxes etc - if you have the room, the expertise and it will help the conservation of the animal - go for it.


I am guilty of feeding birds on a bird table, nowt wrong in that most people would say, but there is. I could be guilty of promoting the food of one species to the expense of others, for example, the Great tit, which attacks and sometimes predates on Blue tits, but both can be seen on the table. This raises ethical issues that most people have never really thought of. Ignorant? Nah, Insensitive? Nah, but a charge of double standards can possibly be substantiated. It is only my vanity of wanting to see birds on my table that keeps me feeding them.

Definately ignorant and definately a double standard. How many birds have you killed Rheghead by feeding them on a bird table with next doors cat waiting patiently in the bushes? Don't you know? How ignorant! Don't you care? How insensitive!



Likewise, I have come to the opinion that your so-called aviary is rooted in your vanity , masquarading as an animal rescue operation. Though I do empathise with what you are doing funnily enough, your motives are sound, your methods, argueably aren't. :grin:


LOL at that one. I don't claim to be an animal rescue operation, never have.
I do claim to be an animal lover though, no matter what species. If I see an ill treated dog I would come to it's defence, If I see a bird caught up in a tree I'd try to help it, if I saw an injured rabbit ot fox I'd call a vet but perhaps more importantly, if I saw any animal suffering I would have no problem having it euthanised.
If we had got these birds home and had felt it would have been kinder to destroy them, I would have. If any of these birds starts to show evidence of any psychological problems due to being in aviaries I would have no problems having it euthanised. What I will not do however, ever, is to kill a perfectly healthy albeit unreleasable bird of prey just because some people who think they know all it all because they 'birdwatch', say it's cruel to keep them.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 17:45
I agree, which makes my point all the more poignant, in that any natural reintroductions get recorded as genuine rather than to be dismissed as 'just another escapee'.


Does it blinkin matter!!!!!!![disgust]
If the eagle owl population is reintroduced into Britain on the backs of escapees so what? It doesn't make them any the less typical of the breed.

The eagle owl of ours that escaped was on hislast legs when he was found, which just goes to show that the wild instinct is not necessarily naturally present. This area would be suitable for the eagle owl with plenty of prey around but Tommy couldn't make it.

Just so you know, if we had found that Tommy had survived quite adequately we would have been pleased as punch for him to stay out there. Now maybe you see that as wrong Rheghead but we would like to see as many of these animals in their more natural habitat wherever possible. Failing that, we'll be happy to help along the way. :D

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 17:54
I do claim to be an animal lover though

There is no doubt about that, but you are one in the same vane of those who create and maintain the cruel business of capturing and live transport of exotic animals throughout the world purely for their own vanity. You do nothing for the integrity of British wildlife conservation.

My views were not designed to upset your daughter, your daughter has upset herself, I didn't release the bird. Maybe next time your fifteen-year-old may needs adult supervision whilst handling the birds? Your call...

But if my views have upset her then sometimes the truth does hurt and we all need to be given a dose of it now and again.

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 18:17
Does it blinkin matter!!!!!!![disgust]
If the eagle owl population is reintroduced into Britain on the backs of escapees so what? It doesn't make them any the less typical of the breed.

Yes it does matter.

A Duke foolishly introduced the American Grey squirrel to his estate, now the red squirrel will be extinct from mainland Britain in a few decades.

Accidental reintroduction, even Eagle owls as your own experience nearly bore out, will result in death/damage to not only the escapees but to unplanned consequences to Britain's wildlife. Any reintroduction, to be successful, needs planning from recognised bodies. (To even ask the question 'Does it blinkin' matter?' only serves to support my own opinion of your misguided actions.)

Anything less than a properly funded and planned reintroduction is er....irresponsible.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 18:19
There is no doubt about that, but you are one in the same vane of those who create and maintain the cruel business of capturing and live transport of exotic animals throughout the world purely for their own vanity. You do nothing for the integrity of British wildlife conservation.



Hahahahaha, So now I'm maintaining the exotic animal trade am I. Jeepers and all from little ole caithness with our mangled, 1 winged or otherwise unreleasable birds.


My views were not designed to upset your daughter, your daughter has upset herself, I didn't release the bird. Maybe next time your fifteen-year-old may needs adult supervision whilst handling the birds? Your call...

My daughter takes much more care over her birds than you do over your mouth, but if you get your rocks off insulting heartbroken 15 year old girls then thats a rock you have to carry.



But if my views have upset her then sometimes the truth does hurt and we all need to be given a dose of it now and again.



And you more than some. Your comments haven't upset my daughter because I haven't shown her them. If they had been put in such a way that I thought she'd benefit from seeing them then I would have done - derogatory or not.
In fact if I show her now I'm pretty sure she'll treat them with the contempt they deserve, coming from a sanctimonious,arrogant and at best, ignorant fool.

Saveman
24-Apr-06, 18:30
This has decended to a worse level than any thread I've seen.
...and I've seen a few....

Personal insults are a step too far IMHO

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 18:32
Hahahahaha, So now I'm maintaining the exotic animal trade am I.

It certainly looks like from my position. You admitted that you exchanged money for your Eagle owl. Bird and egg stealing is big business, and since the eagle owl is a non native species then it doesn't take any professor emeritus of ornithology to put 2 and 2 together.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 18:34
Yes it does matter.

A Duke foolishly introduced the American Grey squirrel to his estate, now the red squirrel will be extinct from mainland Britain in a few decades.

Accidental reintroduction, even Eagle owls as your own experience nearly bore out, will result in death/damage to not only the escapees but to unplanned consequences to Britain's wildlife. Any reintroduction, to be successful, needs planning from recognised bodies. (To even ask the question 'Does it blinkin' matter?' only serves to support my own opinion of your misguided actions.)

Anything less than a properly funded and planned reintroduction is er....irresponsible.


You know what, I've come to the conclusion that for all your talk and supposed knowledge, you actually don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Rheghead, you're a birdwatcher, simple as. You are not the definitive guide on what is right or wrong for the country nor the bird population.
Do you have any idea of the habits of Eagle owls, barn owls or buzzards without finding snippets on the net? I doubt it very much.
My daughter could tell you more about these birds than you'll ever learn about your garden birds. She can distinguish the cry of most birds of prey, hell, we even know that Paris is still local to the garden because my daughter can tell her cry apart from the other buzzards living in the same bunch of trees.
She hasn't stumbled across this knowledge Rheghead. She has put in time and effort to understand everything she can about a breed she feels passionate about. At 15 even she would have one of these birds put to sleep if she felt it was kindest for the bird, and yes she would be able to make an unbiased opinion and it would be based on her knowledge and her passion.

So whats your personal experience of these birds Rheghead? How many of them have you handled? How much knowledge of each of these birds do you have? And where has that knowledge come from? I mean, you must have some knowledge to base your accusations and ignorence on other than just "I'm a bird watcher and all birds should be freeeeeeeee!"


If escaped eagle owls make it back into the population, good for them, why did they become wiped out from this country in the first place? Man basically! So if escaped ones make it back and other birds are killed off in the process isn't that the law of nature you speak of? After all it wasn't a natural occurence that rid the country of Eagle owls, so in theory they aren't alien.

unicorn
24-Apr-06, 18:35
Get a grip people........ she only wanted help.....

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 18:35
This has decended to a worse level than any thread I've seen.
...and I've seen a few....

Personal insults are a step too far IMHO

I haven't made any personal insults. I have only told porshie that she is irresponsible.

So far she had called other posters, ignorant fools, imbeciles and insensitive etc etc. A sure sign that their point is lost.

Saveman
24-Apr-06, 18:37
I haven't made any personal insults. <snip>


I know you didn't.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 18:37
It certainly looks like from my position. You admitted that you exchanged money for your Eagle owl. Bird and egg stealing is big business, and since the eagle owl is a non native species then it doesn't take any professor emeritus of ornithology to put 2 and 2 together.


Okay, I agree about bird and egg stealing being big business Rheghead, however, we didn't steal the birds and we certainly have never stolen any eggs nor ever intend to.
These birds will never be bred from therefore we will not profit financially in any way from these birds.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 18:39
I haven't made any personal insults. I have only told porshie that she is irresponsible.

So far she had called other posters, ignorant fools, imbeciles and insensitive etc etc. A sure sign that their point is lost.


The games you play Rheghead!!!!!![lol]

Just out of curiosity: You call my daughter irresponsible, I call you sanctimonious. As far as I'm concerned I haven't insulted you I've told the truth as I see it just as you feel you have.
However, if as you state in your previous posting, you are going to take offence to the truth when someone points it out the I will cease and say only nice things.

Saveman
24-Apr-06, 18:43
I haven't made any personal insults. I have only told porshie that she is irresponsible.

So far she had called other posters, ignorant fools, imbeciles and insensitive etc etc. A sure sign that their point is lost.

When my point is lost I tend to shut down the computer and hide behind the sofa......two weeks later....the moment has past and noone seems to remember......;)

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 18:45
You have the power to close this thread Porshie under thread tools, I suggest you do so before you dig a big hole for yersel and Niall gives you a push into it with me clinging to your tail feathers!![lol]

Oddquine
24-Apr-06, 18:57
Sorry Porshie, I am not taking it, global warming is a real danger and birds do get killed regularly by traffic, we all have killed birds, so you may be claiming a pyricc victory, in the name of animal conservation.

For some time now, I have taken a keen interest in conservation and birdwatching, I have even got a degree in the Environment. So calling me ignorant and insensitive to wildlife and conservation simply does not wash with me, it is one of my passions.
Hecky thump.............one of my passions is reading cookery books......but that doesn't make me a chef.

Heaven preserve us from the theoreticians who know how things are meant to be, and are quite unable to accept that real life isn't like that! :roll:

I assume, given your much expounded and seemingly intractable beliefs with regard to global warming and the dangers of roadkill that you do not possess a car?

I don't......so I can justifiably say that I am doing nothing to increase either global warming or roadkill unnecessarily....................but I also admire porshiepoo and those like her for helping animals who already exist and are NOT theoretical to have at the least a reasonable existence.

Would I be correct to guess that your solution would be to put all rescue animals who cannnot be put back into the wild to sleep? :(

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 19:01
Nope, I'll keep it open for the reason I started it.
In case you didn't know Rheghead, that was for the well being of my daughters loose buzzard that has a lead attatched.
Keep an eye out, we wouldn't want that lead finding it's way round your neck now would we. :p

gleeber
24-Apr-06, 19:02
You have the power to close this thread Porshie under thread tools, I suggest you do so before you dig a big hole for yersel and Niall gives you a push into it with me clinging to your tail feathers!![lol]

I canna speak for the mods but its unlikely they would close this thread because some born again birdwatcher is taking a thumping.

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 19:03
I assume, given your much expounded and seemingly intractable beliefs with regard to global warming and the dangers of roadkill that you do not possess a car?(

Owning a car does not preclude me from making social/environmental commentary about the ethical issues surrounding car ownership and its environmental impact.

Likewise, Falconry centres are not precluded from educating the public on the cruelty and the amateur irresponsibility of bird of prey husbandry, egg stealing, and the irresponsibility of unplanned reintroduction of exotic species, in fact, I would be appalled if they didn't.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 19:13
Owning a car does not preclude me from making social/environmental commentary about the ethical issues surrounding car ownership and its environmental impact.

Nope, just makes you a hypocrite.



Likewise, Falconry centres are not precluded from educating the public on the cruelty and the amateur irresponsibility of bird of prey husbandry, egg stealing, and the irresponsibility of unplanned reintroduction of exotic species, in fact, I would be appalled if they didn't.


And I too would listen to the expertise you would expect to find at a falconry centre. However when you rant about these things, having no knowledge of the species you talk of, it is neither educational or responsible, it's simply misguided.:p

Oddquine
24-Apr-06, 19:14
Owning a car does not preclude me from making social/environmental commentary about the ethical issues surrounding car ownership and its environmental impact.

Likewise, Falconry centres are not precluded from educating the public on the cruelty of bird of prey husbandry and the irresponsibility of unplanned reintroduction of exotic species, in fact, I would be appalled if they didn't.
Excuse me, Rheghead.........but are you a Falconry Centre now? I wasn't aware there was one in Caithness...........you are in Caithness, aren't you?

And owning a car most serpently does preclude you..........or anyone who drives.......... from making social/environmental commentary about how others use their cars,imho.......... unless you can show that you never use it for journeys other people would consider unneccessary.........and you always drive so slowly and carefully that you manage never to hit any animals who are careless enough to get in front of your automobile without giving due warning!

Otherwise, you are simply hypocritical............and argumentative............and verging on the downright nasty.

lasher
24-Apr-06, 19:27
After reading all this about wildlife i feel i must confess, about 2 weeks ago i hit and killed a Robin, I found it sticking out the grill of my car. I don't think it suffered much as i was nipping on at the time of impact, just hope i haven't upset some ecological balance or anything.;)

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 19:33
And owning a car most serpently does preclude you..........or anyone who drives.......... from making social/environmental commentary about how others use their cars,imho.......... unless you can show that you never use it for journeys other people would consider unneccessary.........and you always drive so slowly and carefully that you manage never to hit any animals who are careless enough to get in front of your automobile without giving due warning!

LOL! What do you consider to be essential? Give me one example of someone from Greenpeace etc who honestly hasn't used a car frivolously. No one I'd imagine, but they have a good environmental code of practice whilst they are at their HQ now

BTW for your information, I regularly cycle to Dounreay and opt for my cycle when it is convenient. Porshie who is travelling hundreds of miles to rescue a buzzard (in her gas guzzling porsche) which is not under any population pressure doesn't sound very good to me.

just my 2 penneth, this is a messageboard afterall...

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 19:40
And I too would listen to the expertise you would expect to find at a falconry centre. However when you rant about these things, having no knowledge of the species you talk of, it is neither educational or responsible, it's simply misguided.:p

a degree in the environment and a lifetime interest amounts to so much,not much in some eyes, all opinion. BTW, raptor recognition is one of my strong points, especially in flight from several miles off.

Having an amateurish aviary with a track record of losing birds certainly amounts to something though...unless you actual reform and learn something about the animal you keep.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 19:42
LOL! What do you consider to be essential? Give me one example of someone from Greenpeace etc who honestly hasn't used a car frivolously. No one I'd imagine, but they have a good environmental code of practice whilst they are at their HQ now

Oh I seeeeeeee, that makes it ok then! :confused



BTW for your information, I regularly cycle to Dounreay and opt for my cycle when it is convenient. Porshie who is travelling hundreds of miles to rescue a buzzard (in her gas guzzling porsche) which is not under any population pressure doesn't sound very good to me.



No please tell me Rheghead you didn't fall for the car bit on the thread that asks where our names come from! Pleeeeeasseeeeee tell me you understood that "porshiepoo stands for the car I drive and the rubbish I talk" meant just that? Hint: The car was the rubbish talk!!!!!!!!! (Please no anal comments about this thread being the rubbish talk - that kind of naff talk is sooooooo overdone on here)
Incidentally, I drive a very economical Rover with a tiddy 1.4 engine.



just my 2 penneth, this is a messageboard afterall...


2 penneth worth?????? You won't get much change out of a tenner for all the postings you've made on this thread alone! [lol]

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 19:47
No please tell me Rheghead you didn't fall for the car bit on the thread that asks where our names come from! Pleeeeeasseeeeee tell me you understood that "porshiepoo stands for the car I drive and the rubbish I talk" meant just that? Hint: The car was the rubbish talk!!!!!!!!! (Please no anal comments about this thread being the rubbish talk - that kind of naff talk is sooooooo overdone on here)
Incidentally, I drive a very economical Rover with a tiddy 1.4 engine.


LOL! you got me hook line and sinker with that rubbish talk, something you are well verse in.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 19:57
a degree in the environment and a lifetime interest amounts to so much,not much in some eyes, all opinion. BTW, raptor recognition is one of my strong points, especially in flight from several miles off.

My god man, I can recognise most birds of prey from a very long distance and I'm certainly no expert. So that little outburst of yours there doesn't really amount to much my dear man.

But what exactly do you know about Eagle Owls and their needs, their care, their history etc? or that of Buzzards? Or even Barn owls?

A degree in the enviroment can be a great accomplishment but it can also be a complete waste of resources when gained by someone, such as yourself, who has a blinkered, whimsical and pretty much unrealistic view of the world.
IMO that degree has made you even more dangerous than a commonal garden variety of ignorant fool, it's made you believe that you have a right to lecture on things you have no 'real' knowledge of.



Having an amateurish aviary with a track record of losing birds certainly amounts to something though...


Oh sorry, Rheghead, was there no one in when you came round to inspect our aviaries and endorse us with your expert opinion of what a bird of prey needs? After all you do have the experience and knowledge of being able to identify them from a distance..... how cool is that!!!!!!

Geo
24-Apr-06, 20:01
Can you two not just agree to differ and move on?

Don Quixote
24-Apr-06, 20:08
Can you two not just agree to differ and move on?

Here here!

connieb19
24-Apr-06, 20:13
Jeepers, all porshiepoo was doing was asking people to keep a look out for her lost buzzard, she wasn't asking for a long lecture on the right and wrongs of keeping them. I'm sure she would rather they were free but they are rescue birds. Imo I'm glad there's people like her to look after them.
Porshie, I hope you get the bird back soon..

pultneytooner
24-Apr-06, 20:22
LOL! What do you consider to be essential? Give me one example of someone from Greenpeace etc who honestly hasn't used a car frivolously. No one I'd imagine, but they have a good environmental code of practice whilst they are at their HQ now
If they are a bunch of hypocrites how can they have a good code of practice?:confused
How can rheghead lecture anyone unless he practices some of what he preaches?

engiebenjy
24-Apr-06, 20:30
I don't often post, I like to read, but I have been forced to reply.

Rheghead you are a complete and utter eedjit (I wanted to say something else there, but the realms of decency preclude me)

On yersel Porshie. Hope she comes back.

Zambo
24-Apr-06, 20:37
This thread has turned into something completely unbelievable!

The bottom line is that a buzzard is missing, and could be in danger due to a lead still being attached.

Forget the rights and wrongs - let's just all keep an eye out for the poor thing, and try to help if we can.

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 20:38
How can rheghead lecture anyone unless he practices some of what he preaches?

I do, that is the thing!

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 20:40
Jeepers, all porshiepoo was doing was asking people to keep a look out for her lost buzzard, she wasn't asking for a long lecture on the right and wrongs of keeping them. I'm sure she would rather they were free but they are rescue birds. Imo I'm glad there's people like her to look after them.
Porshie, I hope you get the bird back soon..

If you actually read my original post on this subject, I wished and still wish that she gets the bird back. If I had started a thread about having lost a packet of cocaine, do you honestly think that I wouldn't get any comments about the whys and wherefores of the merits of drug taking?

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 21:02
But what exactly do you know about Eagle Owls and their needs, their care, their history etc? or that of Buzzards? Or even Barn owls?

i know quite a bit about Eagle owls, their history and need to live in a habitat that requires no human intervention.

As for their needs in a domesticated sense then I can't see any need. It would have been a very hard thing for me to do but I'd like to think that if I saw a raptor which was injured then I hopefully I could just walk away. But it depends on the circumstances of course(rarity etc), if it had a 3 foot leather tassle then you'd be the first to know. Nature is not cruel, it is nature.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 21:24
i know quite a bit about Eagle owls, their history and need to live in a habitat that requires no human intervention.

Um no Rheghead, thats not knowlege, thats opinion and is only based on what you've read and not from hands on experience with these birds.



As for their needs in a domesticated sense then I can't see any need. It would have been a very hard thing for me to do but I'd like to think that if I saw a raptor which was injured then I hopefully I could just walk away. But it depends on the circumstances of course(rarity etc), if it had a 3 foot leather tassle then you'd be the first to know. Nature is not cruel, it is nature.


Rheghead, I did not rescue these birds, the bird sanctuary did that. Then the bird sanctuary treated them for any injuries and the bird sanctuary then tried to rehabilitate this bird. This same sanctaury, with all it's wisdom and experience (which I'm guessing is incredibly far more advanced than your own as that wouldn't be too difficult) with birds of prey decided that the rehabilitation of this particular bird failed.
Thats where we came in. We took the bird and gave it a home which could offer time and space - which is much more than alot of the sanctuaries are able to offer - where it could live out the rest of it's days and freeing up room for the sanctuaries to carry on helping other birds.

Our main concern for this particular buzzard is that she has a lead attatched which could cause her to get hooked up. Thankfully her jesses are not tied so her legs are independant of one another but I just wanted to put a posting on here in case any orgers catch sighting of a buzzard in this area trailing a lead. I do appreciate that you have your sensibilities - however unrealistic and frankly hypocritical they are - but the well being of this bird has to be our main concern. Perhaps you would prefer to see it strung up somewhere as ammunition to gloat or for her to die of starvation but we wouldn't.

Rheghead
24-Apr-06, 21:37
Um no Rheghead, thats not knowlege, thats opinion and is only based on what you've read and not from hands on experience with these birds.

So how much knowlege can anyone learn about the history, breeding habits, hunting skills of an eagle owl from looking after a raptor in captivity? In a word, nothing. I could look all day at my dog and I wouldn't have the foggiest about wolf pack instincts. LOL

At some point you will have to read, study to get the full facts, or even go out into the real world and do some birdwatching which I do regularly.

porshiepoo
24-Apr-06, 22:41
[
quote=Rheghead]So how much knowlege can anyone learn about the history, breeding habits, hunting skills of an eagle owl from looking after a raptor in captivity? In a word, nothing. I could look all day at my dog and I wouldn't have the foggiest about wolf pack instincts. LOL

Then you would be quite blind old chap.
The pack instinct is prevalent today in all dogs and it doesn't take too much studying of domesticated dogs to see it. My dogs are all bought up and trained with the pack order in mind and I now have well adapted dogs that are happy to let me as pack leader take control.
You're happy to dismiss this 'wolf' instinct because that would go against your misguided belief that man has domesticated these animals long enough now for the wild, pack instinct to have dissipated therefore earning a right to keep them.
Dogs certainly have not had this instinct bred out of them over the years it's simply on the 'back burner' and can and does surface at time to time.
My dogs could not necessarily survive out in the wild feeding themselves but they have learnt to adapt to human company and see us as an extension of the pack. As leader of the pack my dogs look to me to feed them, they bark to warn me of visitors but back down when they know they have my attention, out on walks I lead the pack and each one of them knows that in this pack humans come higher placed.
So you may not have the foggiest idea about wolf pack instinct Rheghead but that four legged pet of yours certainly does.


As for the breeding habits of Eagle owls, much can be learnt from captive breeding, they're very reluctant to breed unless the conditions are right so captive breeders must be doing something right. (not that I necessarily agree with unconstructive, captive breeding)
Hunting skills? Alot of birds of prey that are kept as pets are used for hunting and are flown regularly - you can actually learn alot from watching, training and owning these 'captive raptors' Rheghead.




At some point you will have to read, study to get the full facts, or even go out into the real world and do some birdwatching which I do regularly.
[/QUOTE]

So you would think with your degree an all that you would have learnt something then - alas not! A 'little knowledge' can be a dangerous thing Rheghead and it would seem you wield your limited blue tit birdwatching experiences like a machete. Ouch!!!!!!

JAWS
25-Apr-06, 03:25
If you actually read my original post on this subject, I wished and still wish that she gets the bird back. If I had started a thread about having lost a packet of cocaine, do you honestly think that I wouldn't get any comments about the whys and wherefores of the merits of drug taking?
When somebody once told me that a Buzzard was high as a kite I didnt realise they were telling me it was a junky.

Buzzards? Drug taking? Is there some suggestion which I missed suggesting that Porshiepoo is committing a criminal offence by keeping a Buzzard?

I must make some enquiries, I've never come across the Misuse of Buzzards Act.

Perhaps we should throw in the whys and wherefores of Murder, Rape and Terrorism as well.

Do you get Life for keeping a Buzzard? I never realised it was so serious a matter.

JAWS
25-Apr-06, 03:45
On the sanctimonial higher moral highground again, jaws?
No, I just thought I would join in the condemnatory attitude prevelant in some on the Board. I tried to get to the moral high ground once but I gave up, it was too full of others pontificating about the terrible moral attitudes of others. I couldn't stand the cant, humbug and hypocracy so I left them too it!
"I don't think you should do it,so you must not do it because I consider it wrong and you are a horrible person for not complying with my views. What's more, how dare you use the board as a platform for your terrible extremist beliefs?" Now where have I heard that attitude before?
How can I try to claim the Moral High Ground when everybody already knows that I am an obnoxious horrible person with shocking beliefs and attitudes about others?

Porshiepoo, I suggest your family carry on keeping rescued raptors if they wish. Such actions are quite legal and the fact that it upsets someone else' dogmatic moral standpoint is their problem.
You have nothing to defend. I have not seen you try to denigrate anybody for not keeping raptors but obviously there are some who do not wish to extend you the same consideration.

Personally I would use them for target practice. That way there would be more pheasants to shoot.
Fortunately they don't take geese so there's no problem there!

willowbankbear
25-Apr-06, 09:02
If you actually read my original post on this subject, I wished and still wish that she gets the bird back. If I had started a thread about having lost a packet of cocaine, do you honestly think that I wouldn't get any comments about the whys and wherefores of the merits of drug taking?

You never know on this forum Rheghead?
I can just see it now, Lost,Help needed!
You would probably be surprised as no doubt somebody would hope that, you got it back!,good luck finding! it,did you get it back yet?,well done if you did!, & hard luck sorry you couldnt find yer coke! [lol]

paris
25-Apr-06, 09:05
Correct me if im wrong.. but doesnt rheghead ride a cycle a motorcycle by the name of a Triumph ????

willowbankbear
25-Apr-06, 09:14
Correct me if im wrong.. but doesnt rheghead ride a cycle a motorcycle by the name of a Triumph ????

Why? Is that signifigant paris? Ye`ve lost me there

paris
25-Apr-06, 09:20
He said in an earlier post that he doesnt drive a car , all to do with the enviroment ect he rides a cycle , yes a motorcycle which still damages the enviroment doesnt it ???

Rheghead
25-Apr-06, 11:04
he rides a cycle

Yes a pedal cycle, a Claud Butler Dalesman, O cc, 4000 miles per year, the most efficient form of human transport ever invented by a Scotsman.

It is the cure for all sorts of ills, including depression and obesity. I can't remember picking a chaffinch off the front of my bike though.

Do you remember what a bicycle even looks like, let alone ride one?[lol]

paris
25-Apr-06, 11:14
Funny that cos yes i do happen to have a bike....and sure I know what they look like as i happen to have 3... A triumph..750 a kawasaki 1500 AND a push bike ...soon to own a harley davidson aswell so there !!!!

caithness import
25-Apr-06, 18:31
I've just driven past Paris sitting on the fence on the A99 beside the sign for Katrina Sutherland Beauty. She looked happy as larry! Hope you get her back - at least to get her lead off her if she's happy being free as a bird.

Cheers

porshiepoo
25-Apr-06, 19:34
I've just driven past Paris sitting on the fence on the A99 beside the sign for Katrina Sutherland Beauty. She looked happy as larry! Hope you get her back - at least to get her lead off her if she's happy being free as a bird.

Cheers


Thanks for that.
We'll go take a look but i'm sure she's long gone by now.
Did she look healthy? I'm sure you only got a quick glimpse but we're very worried about her.
Thanks

porshiepoo
25-Apr-06, 20:22
Just been out to take a look, it's definately her.
It would appear that the lead isn't attatched anymore and she just has her jesses on.

willowbankbear
26-Apr-06, 10:43
did ye get a hold of your buzzard yet Porshiepoo? the suspense is killing us woman, will she wont she?[lol]

paris
26-Apr-06, 14:37
Any new yet poo.?

paris
26-Apr-06, 14:37
Any news yet poo.?

JAWS
26-Apr-06, 15:04
I've just driven past Paris sitting on the fence on the A99 beside the sign for Katrina Sutherland Beauty. She looked happy as larry! Hope you get her back - at least to get her lead off her if she's happy being free as a bird.

Cheers
Wonder if she's been to get her nails done? ;)

paris
26-Apr-06, 17:50
No Jaws, more like gone to get her hair feathered, ha ha ( old hair style in the 70s if you dont understand me )

JAWS
27-Apr-06, 01:57
No Jaws, more like gone to get her hair feathered, ha ha ( old hair style in the 70s if you dont understand me )
Yes, I am that old! :cry:

ice box
27-Apr-06, 02:02
May be thats her bird is the photograghy thread fighting we the scorries .

porshiepoo
27-Apr-06, 09:00
She's still in that area.
Hubby and daughter spent 3 hours the other night just watching her to see what she's managing to do. Basically, not much.
She's either sitting on a post or on the ground which would be fine cos buzzards take most of their prey from the ground but she's just not getting up high enough to spot the prey and have any chance of getting up some speed to catch it. This was her problem when she was re-released, she just couldn't survive.
The spca got a call from a concerned person in the area cos they'd seen a buzzard with jesses attatched so it's great that people are acting when they see her.
Unfortunately, we don't think she's managed to eat much - maybe a bit of road kill. The problem is that for some reason this buzzard has always refused to eat rabbit so I doubt she's eating any out there.
Hubby and daughter are going out tonight to watch her and attempt to catch her when it's dark, hopefully she'll be hungry enough to come to the food.

As much as I hoped now that she's lost the lead that she'd manage to survive, it doesn't look like she will. Her feathers are all fluffed up which is a sure sign that somethings amiss, so we're not prepared to just leave her to die we're going to intervene.

badger
27-Apr-06, 10:40
Do hope they succeed tonight. This is one story that really needs a happy ending.

kas
27-Apr-06, 11:01
Do hope they succeed tonight. This is one story that really needs a happy ending.

Same from me. The best of luck. Surely she will come back when she is desparate for food. I have my fingers crossed for you.

jac1791
28-Apr-06, 17:24
i saw a buzzard this morning just at katrina Sutherlands sign at lybster tucking into breakfast -- looked like a small rabbit !! so if this was ur one at least u know she is hunting
hope u get her back!!