View Full Version : why have we not got a macdonalds resturant up here
seems pathetic the nearest one is in inverness and there is plenty of room near tesco wick kids would love it and they dont get much living way up here well a kfc or sumthing would be ok but you know what up here will never change as all the folks up here are still in the 1920s they say change is good what do you think your kids will be eating when they go to university and where will they be working oh wait aminute lets get rid of tesco as well eh we might as well just say no to all new retailers comming up here lol over and out
i agree
cheeseburger and mcflurry :p
upolian could u throw in a big mac aswell mate lol
Boozeburglar
03-Nov-09, 02:00
yeah, I mean it is a vital service, even more than the post office.
teddybear1873
03-Nov-09, 02:20
Be even more fatties in Caithness if McDonalds arrived there.
My son only didn't have a club or an activity on two days of the week. That was because I thought his week was full enough. There is a huge amount for kids to do in Caithness, as long as their parents are interested enough to get them going. Does Caithness need a McDonald premises (I refuse to use the word restaurant, because it definately isn't that!)? Yeah....like a fish needs a bicycle.;)
My son only didn't have a club or an activity on two days of the week. That was because I thought his week was full enough. There is a huge amount for kids to do in Caithness, as long as their parents are interested enough to get them going. Does Caithness need a McDonald premises (I refuse to use the word restaurant, because it definately isn't that!)? Yeah....like a fish needs a bicycle.;)
We don't need one but the question was "why isn't there one", not the pros and cons of having one. Personally I would never eat there but a large percentage of people do so if there is enough business for all at the retail park etc I don't see why there wouldn't be enough for a McDonald's etc.
Maybe people who are interested could contact McDonalds direct?
ive often wondered why theres not fast food like mcdonalds or pizza hut or burger king up here.
theres enough chippies Chinese and Indians around! and fran would def. get served for under a 10ner!
i think we could support it.. and it would make money, and there are healthy choices on the menu now!
also, it would be a nice treat! no one is saying you have to eat there 3 meals a day 365 days a year!
Sod Macdonalds,lets have a KFC, Much better. We used to have Macdonalds regularly when we lived down south.When we moved up here we didn`t have one for 3 months. Had one in Inverness all I could taste was fat and sugar. We all felt rough the next day too.Even our daughter won`t eat it now.
Kathy@watten
03-Nov-09, 09:33
No thanks for Macdonalds in Wick, there are plenty of non fatty food related treats for our kids and I am sure this Macdonalds dining experience would not be life enhancing at all. We are so lucky up here we have open space and relative freedom for our kids and lots of activities if you get out there and look, in the big picture the lack of fast food (junk) outlet will not impact in a negative way upon their childhood. I am sure that should you wish to indulge your kids in this lovely "treat" the experience would be greater if less frequent so the trip to Inverness could warrant a wee treat to the big M.
Definitely a no for me. In Edinburgh a few weeks ago and my son insisted on a macdonalds for lunch and it was like eating a bit of cardboard,even the sprite was watered down with the amount of ice cubes in it.Keep them in Inverness as far as I am concerned
KFC or Pizzahut for me please.
Thank you.
just wondering how many jobs here pay more than min wage in the retail sector? you know im kinda sick and tired of hearing nothing but neg. responses to anything new. do you people want caithness to die out? lets face it, if we dont get retail up here, then at the end of the day there will be nothing left. back home there are loads and loads of fast food everywhere. dosent mean that we ate there very often. in fact as a child we went once a month, when my dad got paid. i thought it was the best thing ever! i was allowed to get a kids meal with a cheeseburger with ketchup mustard and extra pickles, french fries and a choc. shake. boy was i the bees knees.
my mother didnt even allow table salt on my food at home.
so this was a rare treat.
tartanyorkie
03-Nov-09, 10:26
Well, my son heard a rumour that MacDonalds was taking over the All Star Factory, lol.
achingale
03-Nov-09, 10:27
I would not go to a Macdonald's. Their food is like rubber as already mentioned. Yuk! Maybe there is a business opportunity for someone up here to do something similar but better? If a fast food chain was to come I would much prefer Pizza Hut.;)
The arrival of fast food chains would spoil the beauty of caithness. Anyway, the food is rubbish,rubbish,rubbish. Surely your kids health is more important.
Hen Broon
03-Nov-09, 10:41
All this slagging off the fast food giants, as if chippys chinese etc serve healthy fast food, last I heard the food was pretty much fried full of salt ad MSG's etc etc etc. What about Subway some of there stuff can be healthy and even MacDonald’s sell salads fruit etc and do deli sandwiches, so it's not any worse than what we've got already probably better. It's still a democratic society from what I here so let people have the choice if MacDonald’s etc is as bad as some of you say it is, people won't eat there.
Lavenderblue2
03-Nov-09, 10:43
I wouldn't go into MacDonalds if it was at the bottom of my garden [disgust] - I hate the smell when I pass the place - YUK!
We don't need one but the question was "why isn't there one", not the pros and cons of having one.
Transit said that an McDonald would give children something to do as there was nothing much up here for kids (or at least that is what I managed to understand):
.......seems pathetic the nearest one is in inverness and there is plenty of room near tesco wick kids would love it and they dont get much living way up here.........
Hmmm....the negativity is shining through. Change is needed.
from what i understood from the post was that they dont get much chance at macdonalds ect.. living up here. not chance of what to do
ShelleyCowie
03-Nov-09, 11:04
I wouldnt like a macdonalds. I think the food is completely bland and a waste of money!
The only thing most kids like about it is that they get a toy from buying a happy meal. Well i have never been happy eating one of them things!
We have enough fast food places up here as it is! And the place i enjoy the most is the sandwich shop in thurso! Fresh sandwiches, home made soup and baked potatoes! Lovely! :Razz
just wondering how many jobs here pay more than min wage in the retail sector? you know im kinda sick and tired of hearing nothing but neg. responses to anything new.
SNIP
Here's a few facts from a Public Health report (Scotland) published in 2007
The prevalence of obesity (BMI>30kg/m2) in Scotland has increased over the past two decades,reaching 22% in men and 24% in women in 2003.
Obesity in children is now common. In Scotland, nearly one in five (18%) boys and over one in ten (14%) girls aged 2–15 years are obese.
Women in Scotland are more likely to be obese than women in England but levels of obesity among Scottish and English men are broadly the same.
Scotland has one of the highest levels of obesity among OECD countries, second only to the United States of America.
Obesity is linked to an increased risk of coronary heart disease, diabetes, cancer, kidney failure, arthritis, back pain and psychological damage, and decreases life expectancy. For example, type 2 diabetes is almost 13 times more likely to occur in obese women than in women of normal weight.
Obesity in Scotland is linked to nearly 500,000 cases of high blood pressure, 30,000 cases of type 2 diabetes, and similar numbers of cases of osteoarthritis and gout.
It is estimated that obese people in Scotland are 18% more likely to be hospitalised than those of normal weight.
Obesity and its consequences cost the NHS in Scotland an estimated £171 million in 2001.
Good reasons to avoid bringing ';something new' to Caithness.
As for the concept that ' we already have chippies, Chinese and Indian takeaways' and therefore we should have another outlet just doesn't wash!
northener
03-Nov-09, 11:20
There's a very simple reason as to why there's no MacDonalds up here. Profit..or lack of it for the operator.
MacD's are a franchise operation. And that franchise costs alot of dosh.....
As a guide, the cost of an average restaurant is £200,000. You will need to provide at least 25% of the value as unencumbered funds, the remaining 75% can be funded through a bank loan with favourable funding terms.
Read more (javascript:$('more5').show(); $('link5').hide();)
There's also a one-off franchise fee of £30,000 and a training deposit of £5,000 which will be refunded when you complete your training.
There are also ongoing fees. These include:
- Monthly rent on the premises, based on sales and profitability (usually about 12%)
- Service Fee for use of the McDonald's system - 5% of sales
- Contribution to national marketing spend, currently 4.5% of sales
And the returns?
Cashflow is around £70,000 to £98,000 per year but this isn't guaranteed: it could be more, it could be less. This is before debt repayment. The average cash return on investment is currently around 10%.
Bear in mind that these figures are to take over an existing outlet. The cost of opening new facility would be bloody scary.
Are there any fans of MacD's in Caithness who'd be happy to stump up the cash for that little high-risk venture?
Are there any fans of MacD's in Caithness who'd be happy to stump up the cash for that little high-risk venture?
__________________
.
Probably not, Mr N.
Why don't we have one?, for the same reason that we don't have any number of fast food chains or high street shops, We don't have the population to support these kind of business', Caithness only has a population of around 25,000 people, these companies view that as a drop in the ocean, especially when you break it down into the different age groups.
Caithnesians really do need to stop thinking that we're some kind of sprawling metropolis that deserves all the same amenities that a City has.
northener
03-Nov-09, 11:32
Why don't we have one?, for the same reason that we don't have any number of fast food chains or high street shops, We don't have the population to support these kind of business', Caithness only has a population of around 25,000 people, these companies view that as a drop in the ocean, especially when you break it down into the different age groups.
Caithnesians really do need to stop thinking that we're some kind of sprawling metropolis that deserves all the same amenities that a City has.
Indeed. I've said it before - if you want the same facilities as Inverness - move to Inverness!
northener
03-Nov-09, 11:33
Are there any fans of MacD's in Caithness who'd be happy to stump up the cash for that little high-risk venture?
__________________
.
Probably not, Mr N.
But they'll expect someone else to do it for them......:Razz
There's a very simple reason as to why there's no MacDonalds up here. Profit..or lack of it for the operator.
SNIP
Right, that should put an end to this thread!
Beautifully done............[lol]
I seem to be in the minority on here, I like MacDonalds. There's one just a couple minutes drive from my work so shall go there when I finish at 1.30 and have a big juicy cheeseburger and large fries. :D
teddybear1873
03-Nov-09, 13:39
I seem to be in the minority on here, I like MacDonalds. There's one just a couple minutes drive from my work so shall go there when I finish at 1.30 and have a big juicy cheeseburger and large fries. :D
I only go there for the Lattes, nice and cheap. Can't stand fast food.
Invisible
03-Nov-09, 15:14
KFC or Pizzahut for me please.
Thank you.
for me too
I used to like their macsalads but not seen them for a long time and often they'd look as if you had 2 heids asking for a salad in macdonalds.[lol]
The arrival of fast food chains would spoil the beauty of caithness. Anyway, the food is rubbish,rubbish,rubbish. Surely your kids health is more important.
I'm sorry but what utter nonsense
not for some maybe but for others just need to say things up here have to change we dont have alot of big retailers up here iv lived here my whole life and the commnt on move to inverness why should i we should have all the things we want at home
northener
03-Nov-09, 15:55
I don't mind the odd McBurger, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get one.
To see what can be done with fast food look here.
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/05/08/travel/1194840085440/portlands-food-cart-scene.html
stewart4364
03-Nov-09, 16:59
There's a very simple reason as to why there's no MacDonalds up here. Profit..or lack of it for the operator.
MacD's are a franchise operation. And that franchise costs alot of dosh.....
As a guide, the cost of an average restaurant is £200,000. You will need to provide at least 25% of the value as unencumbered funds, the remaining 75% can be funded through a bank loan with favourable funding terms.
Read more (http://javascript<b></b>:$('more5').show(); $('link5').hide();)
There's also a one-off franchise fee of £30,000 and a training deposit of £5,000 which will be refunded when you complete your training.
There are also ongoing fees. These include:
- Monthly rent on the premises, based on sales and profitability (usually about 12%)
- Service Fee for use of the McDonald's system - 5% of sales
- Contribution to national marketing spend, currently 4.5% of sales
And the returns?
Cashflow is around £70,000 to £98,000 per year but this isn't guaranteed: it could be more, it could be less. This is before debt repayment. The average cash return on investment is currently around 10%.
Bear in mind that these figures are to take over an existing outlet. The cost of opening new facility would be bloody scary.
Are there any fans of MacD's in Caithness who'd be happy to stump up the cash for that little high-risk venture?
I totally agree with northener regarding the franchise (I thought one of their franchises was nearer £300000). I cannot realistically see any business in Caithness taking a risk on this franchise as the population (or part of the population who would actually frequent Macdonalds) of Caithness and the surrounding catchment area is far too small. I think there are probably alternative and maybe better and more lucrative ways of investing that sort of money but if someone with that sort of money and even if they are brave enough would they take on a franchise. I just cannot see how this can be a really profitable proposition considering cost of franchise, ongoing expenditure mentioned by northener and interest on bank charges unless the person is fortunate enough to have the odd £300000 or so to throw around and as previously mentioned I feel that the population is too small to adequately cover all the costs involved in this venture. Maybe some of the orgers wishing there was a Macdonalds in Caithness should club together buy a franchise and put Macdonalds on the map in Caithness. I better not hold my breath too long as I shall surely fall by the wayside and unfortunately not be there to see the venture come to fruition.
Maybe once Matalan and the other stores come up next to Tesco, Macdonals will follow.
NickInTheNorth
03-Nov-09, 18:03
not for some maybe but for others
just need to say things up here have to change
we dont have alot of big retailers up here iv lived here my whole life and the commnt on move to inverness why should i
we should have all the things we want at home
what gives you the right to have everything you want on your doorstep, do you want the level of crime, both petty and serious, the serious gun crime problem being faced in many cities these days?
Sheer arrogance and stupidity to believe that the world should arrive on your doorstep.
If you want all the amenities of big city living then go where they are.:roll:
There's a very simple reason as to why there's no MacDonalds up here. Profit..or lack of it for the operator.
MacD's are a franchise operation. And that franchise costs alot of dosh.....
As a guide, the cost of an average restaurant is £200,000. You will need to provide at least 25% of the value as unencumbered funds, the remaining 75% can be funded through a bank loan with favourable funding terms.
Read more (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:$%28%27more5%27%29.show%28%29;%20$%28%27link5 %27%29.hide%28%29;)
There's also a one-off franchise fee of £30,000 and a training deposit of £5,000 which will be refunded when you complete your training.
There are also ongoing fees. These include:
- Monthly rent on the premises, based on sales and profitability (usually about 12%)
- Service Fee for use of the McDonald's system - 5% of sales
- Contribution to national marketing spend, currently 4.5% of sales
And the returns?
Cashflow is around £70,000 to £98,000 per year but this isn't guaranteed: it could be more, it could be less. This is before debt repayment. The average cash return on investment is currently around 10%.
Bear in mind that these figures are to take over an existing outlet. The cost of opening new facility would be bloody scary.
Are there any fans of MacD's in Caithness who'd be happy to stump up the cash for that little high-risk venture?
I didn't realise they were franchises. This does explain it. Are all of them the same?
How does it work that jobs can be applied for via head office then (for work in branches)?
The one thing I don't like about this thread is the way it is suggesting we shouldn't have one because of the obesity problem. If there is a business case for it and someone wants to run it, it should be allowed there. Supply and demand. I am sick of this "nanny state" business where we seem to have to be protected from ourselves.
NickInTheNorth
03-Nov-09, 18:22
I didn't realise they were franchises. This does explain it. Are all of them the same?
How does it work that jobs can be applied for via head office then (for work in branches)?
.
There are (or were) about 6 owned by Macdonalds in the UK, all in London, last time I had any involvement with that business.
But in the main as already stated they are franchises. The job application thing is just part of the package of services provided as part of the franchise. Folks can also apply direct to their local franchise without bothering the HO.
redeyedtreefrog
03-Nov-09, 18:48
not for some maybe but for others just need to say things up here have to change we dont have alot of big retailers up here iv lived here my whole life and the commnt on move to inverness why should i we should have all the things we want at home
If your logic is that we should have everything everywhere, then have you heard a city guy moan about the lack of beautiful countryside in the middle of London? Maybe they should transplant some of Caithness down here?
seems pathetic the nearest one is in inverness and there is plenty of room near tesco wick kids would love it and they dont get much living way up here well a kfc or sumthing would be ok but you know what up here will never change as all the folks up here are still in the 1920s they say change is good what do you think your kids will be eating when they go to university and where will they be working oh wait aminute lets get rid of tesco as well eh we might as well just say no to all new retailers comming up here lol over and out
Full stop button broken? :roll:
i have the right to my opinion as well as every thing else also all the crime in the citys is also here even down to guns so no need to be ignorant
NickInTheNorth
03-Nov-09, 18:59
i have the right to my opinion as well as every thing else also all the crime in the citys is also here even down to guns so no need to be ignorant
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, though I believe it is possibly me rather than northerner to whom you are addressing your comments.
As to gun crime, can you tell me the last time an estate in Caithness suffered 4 murders by gunfire within the course of a week as a result of a drugs "turf war"?
I lived within a mile of somewhere that has happened - and similar events have occurred there both before and since. If as you state you have lived up here all you life then you really do not know how very fortunate you are.
Believe me Caithness does NOT have any real issues regarding crime, not compared to virtually anywhere else in the UK.
northener
03-Nov-09, 19:11
i have the right to my opinion as well as every thing else also all the crime in the citys is also here even down to guns so no need to be ignorant
Transit, the point is that just moaning about the fact that Caithness is not Perth or Stirling won't change anything. If you want certain facilities - then you have to do something about it. Caithness is not 'in the 1920's' because it doen't have certain consumer-driven outlets.
Who do you think funds these businesses? Some philanthropically-minded individual who has an overwhelming desire to feed the consumer cravings of a small population? Or do you think that possibly it's businessmen and women who expect to see a good return on the fact that they've risked a lot to create a business?
These outlets do not exist because of very good financial reasons. You can complain all you want, but no savvy operator is going to stick their financial neck out just to satisfy the needs of a few.
Have you noticed that the proposed development next to Tesco's has been shelved for the time being? Why do you think that is?
Dare i say it but if u had an asda in thurso you would probably have macdonalds to.Macdonalds is in a lot of asda stores rather than a cafe but we all no thurso aint getting an asda so no macdonalds just good old tescos instead that has no competition
northener
03-Nov-09, 19:50
Dare i say it but if u had an asda in thurso you would probably have macdonalds to.Macdonalds is in a lot of asda stores rather than a cafe but we all no thurso aint getting an asda so no macdonalds just good old tescos instead that has no competition
Maybe in the really big towns and cities, Eddie. But no-one is going to spend quarter of a million minimum to open up a MacD's in what is essentially a small provincial outlet. Thurso and Wick would only register as large villages in many other parts of the UK -the turnover simply wouldn't be there to make it viable.
For example, Slough has a MacD's in it's Asda store...but the population of Slough alone is 119,000. In other words, the population of just that one town is four times that of the whole of the Far North. The numbers just don't stack up in our favour.
Or:
To get a turnover of £100k in Thurso or Wick every single person in the Far North of Scotland would have to travel into the MacD's outlet and buy a burger once a week. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
03-Nov-09, 20:49
A McDonalds would be good but it would be like the cinema in Thurso,ye wid only go when ye wanted to.Probably once a fortnight,once a month.Spoons is the biz for me,pub grub,beer on tap and good craic or the fitbaw.Nae Spoons in Thurso though,maybe a market place for McDonalds,KFC,Pizza Hut,etc.Always go to the Central when we're up there,pub grub,beer on tap and good craic and bouncy castle.:lol::lol:
Do you think MacDonalds could do me a cut-price deal on a franchise for a couple of years if I asked nicely?
Cedric Farthsbottom III
03-Nov-09, 21:38
Do you think MacDonalds could do me a cut-price deal on a franchise for a couple of years if I asked nicely?
Nae harm in asking Rhegs,I'd visit once a month.:lol::lol:
Northeners right though the profit has to be right or its no worth bothering.
Kevin Milkins
03-Nov-09, 21:56
I have always wondered what these fast food chains put in there food to make them so addictive. I have only experienced fast food about a dozen times in my life and each time I feel odd. ( A bit like the feeling you get when you have relapsed from giving up cigarettes, and had a first drag on a ciggy):eek::confused
My grandchildren have used MacDonald's from a young age and it has been classed as an occasional treat for them. I am sure there is something addictive in the food to make them respond to the notion of a trip to MacDonald's in the excited way that they do. If we are out driving my granddaughter can spot a MacDonald's sign long before it gets on my radar and she will go into a serious strop if I refuse to stop.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
03-Nov-09, 22:07
I have always wondered what these fast food chains put in there food to make them so addictive. I have only experienced fast food about a dozen times in my life and each time I feel odd. ( A bit like the feeling you get when you have relapsed from giving up cigarettes, and had a first drag on a ciggy):eek::confused
My grandchildren have used MacDonald's from a young age and it has been classed as an occasional treat for them. I am sure there is something addictive in the food to make them respond to the notion of a trip to MacDonald's in the excited way that they do. If we are out driving my granddaughter can spot a MacDonald's sign long before it gets on my radar and she will go into a serious strop if I refuse to stop.
I widnae say fast food is addictive.Just a treat now and again.Two cheeseburgers,large fries and a large coke(fizzy drink).I know what you mean about the feeling about the relapse in giving up fags,its good.My fags are more addictive,but still taste good.I digress.A McDonalds in Caithness,young kids down the street in Wick,Thurso for a plonder week in week out.They'd use it.
Maybe in the really big towns and cities, Eddie. But no-one is going to spend quarter of a million minimum to open up a MacD's in what is essentially a small provincial outlet. Thurso and Wick would only register as large villages in many other parts of the UK -the turnover simply wouldn't be there to make it viable.
For example, Slough has a MacD's in it's Asda store...but the population of Slough alone is 119,000. In other words, the population of just that one town is four times that of the whole of the Far North. The numbers just don't stack up in our favour.
Or:
To get a turnover of £100k in Thurso or Wick every single person in the Far North of Scotland would have to travel into the MacD's outlet and buy a burger once a week. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen.
It wouldnt cost 1/4 million to set up macdonalds inside a store and if it was to go into the new tescos in thurso once its built if half of tesco customers have a madonalds it will make a decent profit.
northener
04-Nov-09, 10:31
It wouldnt cost 1/4 million to set up macdonalds inside a store and if it was to go into the new tescos in thurso once its built if half of tesco customers have a madonalds it will make a decent profit.
How much would it cost then, Eddie? The 'new build' costs may be less overall, but you'd have to pay substantial rent to the store operators instead.
Also, I think your figure of 'half of Tesco customers' is being over-optimistic. You've only got to read this thread to see how some peoples opinions are very polarised regarding MacD's.
Granted that MacD's brand name will pull in customers from outside Tescos that a normal caff wouldn't get, but I firmly believe we don't have the population up here to sustain such an outlet long term.
We had one cinema, plus a bowling alley,plus a bar in Thurso up until recently and that couldn't survive - even though it had a monopoly on the whole of the Far North. That's not trying to put a downer on any new investment up here - I'm all for it. But the fact remains that the Far North is a very difficult place to trade for any Independant business.
The people who talk about opening these wonderful retail and purchasing opportunities unfortunately are those who can't or won't put the funds in to back up their opinion that these ventures are worthwhile. And that's an observation - not a dig.
It's very telling that local business people (who are the ones who would be coughing up the cash) aren't too keen to get involved in such ventures. Why? Because they know they are very risky ventures that could easily swallow up a large chunk of capital for no realistic return.
A good local example: Caledonia Restaurant in Wick. Somebody got off their backside and created something they believed was worthwhile. Spent their money. Nicely furnished, swathes of people on here singing their praises in the early days. On the road to a bright future.
Eighteen months late: Gone.
It's the same with all the furore surrounding redevelopment at John O'Groats. Plenty of people standing up and shaking their fists at the usual suspects, loads of folks demanding 'money be spent' blah,blah,blah....
Until you get down to who exactly is going to fund all this...and guess what happens then?
It goes very, very, quiet on the local front.
Everybody is always happy to see someone elses money being spent on something that will benefit them. It's a different story if they have to spend their own money on something that involves risk......
I could just eat a McD's double cheeseburger, though.:Razz
Bobinovich
04-Nov-09, 10:46
...We had one cinema, plus a bowling alley,plus a bar in Thurso up until recently and that couldn't survive - even though it had a monopoly on the whole of the Far North....
It must be said that the management of that establishment did nothing to try and help themselves though. They cut back on maintenance, staff, opening hours, etc. - whether to simply cut costs or to maximise profits I cannot say, but it had the effect of running the place down.
...and they managed to do it twice :eek:!
I firmly believe that in the hands of someone with more business savvy it COULD be still a goldmine. Unfortunately because of the way it was run down it will require a much bigger initial investment to get it back on the right track. However if it had been sold as a going concern before the rot had truly set in I do think it would have recovered and fared well.
Am I the only Orger, who avoids MacDonalds/Burger King and the like? I used to be taken to MacDonalds by my first grandaughter as a treat for her, she does not eat meat, but would tell me to order a Happy Meal and a large coke, she would eat the chips, I was allowed to eat the burger and drink the coke, she got to keep the toy, she was only 4 at the time, she is now 19.
Thats my only experience of these places.
It wouldnt cost 1/4 million to set up macdonalds inside a store and if it was to go into the new tescos in thurso once its built if half of tesco customers have a madonalds it will make a decent profit.
You won't get much change out of £250k either way. Also consider that Tesco's would want around 14% of your turnover (note turnover not profit) for your bit of their floor area, (floor area in supermarkets is worth thousands, the companies whose products you buy pay tesco's for the shelf space).
As for new build, bear in mind that the property will only have an 8 year financial life, i.e. you have 8 years to recover your build costs.
Simple facts are that Mac' d's and the like are low profit high volume outfits, and personally I'm glad there isn't one up here.
It must be said that the management of that establishment did nothing to try and help themselves though. They cut back on maintenance, staff, opening hours, etc. - whether to simply cut costs or to maximise profits I cannot say, but it had the effect of running the place down.
...and they managed to do it twice :eek:!
I firmly believe that in the hands of someone with more business savvy it COULD be still a goldmine. Unfortunately because of the way it was run down it will require a much bigger initial investment to get it back on the right track. However if it had been sold as a going concern before the rot had truly set in I do think it would have recovered and fared well.
Can't argue with most of that, but i'm not sure i agree with that last sentence, when i had a car, i was a regular cinema goer, this was also long before the rot had set in, and i was always really saddened at the lack of people using the place. Sure...for some of the blockbuster movie releases, you would have a near full house, but 9 times out of 10 when i went there, you'd be lucky to have 20/30 people at a showing, and on quite a few occasions i have seen less than 10 people. It always seemed that the lure of the pub was a lot stronger than the lure of the cinema.
Can't argue with most of that, but i'm not sure i agree with that last sentence, when i had a car, i was a regular cinema goer, this was also long before the rot had set in, and i was always really saddened at the lack of people using the place. Sure...for some of the blockbuster movie releases, you would have a near full house, but 9 times out of 10 when i went there, you'd be lucky to have 20/30 people at a showing, and on quite a few occasions i have seen less than 10 people. It always seemed that the lure of the pub was a lot stronger than the lure of the cinema.
Because the prices were too high. The same as big city prices.
In our town we used to have a saturday morning matinee for kids, with a raffle in the interval (remember intarvals?). Always full. There were also REAL discounts to put bottoms in seats, such as monday night BOGOFS, student card, pensioners card, family ticket discounts. In my mind it is better to have 50 people in a room, even at half price than running the film for 5 or 6 at full price. I went to All star a few times where it was just me and my son.....
Because the prices were too high. The same as big city prices
But they would have the same overheads as any big city cinema, and as far as i'm aware, the film distributors don't give any discount to the Cinema just because they are in a rural area, and it's only in recent times that the ticket prices seemed a tad expensive. The picture and sound quality at the All Star Factory was as good as any Cinema i have been in, something which was not cheap to build.
I'm not defending the management of the ASF, they were shocking, and their attitude did nothing to attract patrons to the place. But showing movies is an expensive business, so you can't expect cheap ticket prices just because we are in a rural area with a low population.
Bobinovich
04-Nov-09, 13:32
Can't argue with most of that, but i'm not sure i agree with that last sentence, when i had a car, i was a regular cinema goer, this was also long before the rot had set in, and i was always really saddened at the lack of people using the place. Sure...for some of the blockbuster movie releases, you would have a near full house, but 9 times out of 10 when i went there, you'd be lucky to have 20/30 people at a showing, and on quite a few occasions i have seen less than 10 people. It always seemed that the lure of the pub was a lot stronger than the lure of the cinema.
Fair enough I was looking at it as a whole, rather than just the cinema attendance. As a former league bowler, cinema goer, and regular visitor for food I maintain it could have been handled a lot better.
The league bowling was very well attended - 3 to 4 evenings a week (16 - 32 people per night, spending £5 on bowling plus drinks and some food) it was guaranteed money on their quietest nights. It started to peter out due to management failures - both in the handling of the first liquidation (or whatever it was classed as), and then through lack of maintenance, and staff being forced into performing multiple duties instead of dedicated to one job. It never recovered and the number of nights was reduced because so many were either barred, left as a means of protest or, like myself, couldn't justify the increasingly late nights due to machinery failures.
The food went downhill rapidly - I used to rave about their cajun chicken, but if you don't employ & keep a decent chef/kitchen staff then what do you expect!
As for the cinema I was never convinced that Caithness had the population to support one anyway. Although cinema-going has greatly increased over the last few years I felt you'd either have to show a film less times to ensure decent numbers at each showing, or bite the bullet and hope the first few showings subsidised the less well-attended ones, and still left you with profit. Alternatively, as _ju_ says - special offers to ensure bums on seats during the quieter times. Their sweet & drink sales may have helped as they had well over-inflated prices.
If any prospective buyers are considering the place just now then please don't let this put you off. A change in management was what was required, and although there will need to be much spent on bringing it back up to scratch, in the right hands (both management and staff) I'm sure it will be a goldmine.
Green_not_greed
04-Nov-09, 13:37
Going back to MacDonalds....
Its all about who would go...their best bet may be to open premises close to either Wick or Thurso High Schools to secure the lunchtime market. Fast food for teens 5 days a week would probably sell better than nighttime and weekends. Certainly the (defunct) bowling alley, Sandras, Robins etc all do well from THS pupils at lunch.
So would .orgers support a MacDonalds beside one of the High Schools? As a parent of two teens I most certainly wouldn't - though chips are already available to those who want fast food.
GNG
I'm not convinced that Thurso hasn't the population to support a cinema, my hometown is only just a little bigger and it supports an independent cinema and it has to compete with a large chain cinema which is only 10 miles away.
But they would have the same overheads as any big city cinema, and as far as i'm aware, the film distributors don't give any discount to the Cinema just because they are in a rural area, .
No they dont have the same overheads. property prices are completely different.
No they dont have the same overheads. property prices are completely different.
The running costs of such a business are a lot more than just the mortgage payments.
The running costs of such a business are a lot more than just the mortgage payments.
I beg to differ. The passive of the property on a business is a huge ammount. Even when paid off, that is money that cannot be used on the business. The property value up here is alot less than other places in the UK. Even just as far as Dornoch and average prices are in a completely different range. I cannot imagine what something the size of All star factory would cost in...lets say Perth instead of a great big city, but my guess is that it would be unaffordable to run for an individual/small or even medium business. The passive is just too big. That is why cinemas in big towns are now mostly big chains.
rockchick
04-Nov-09, 20:24
We were quite pleased, when we moved to Caithness, to find we were over a hundred miles from the closest McDonalds. One less temptation for my kids to nag me over...and if we did make it to a McDonalds, it turned into a humungous treat instead of a monthly (or weekly!) habit.
I think Caithness is better off without it, to be honest. Besides, if you want proper junk food, there's always the deep-fried Mars Bar!!! Keep the money in the local economy...
Indeed. I've said it before - if you want the same facilities as Inverness - move to Inverness!
Exactly ;)
Dare i say it but if u had an asda in thurso you would probably have macdonalds to.Macdonalds is in a lot of asda stores rather than a cafe but we all no thurso aint getting an asda so no macdonalds just good old tescos instead that has no competition
That's funny - I've moved from a big city, and used to shop in Asda and have never seen a McDs in one...
Exactly ;)
That's funny - I've moved from a big city, and used to shop in Asda and have never seen a McDs in one...
There is a macdonalds in asda in aberdeen at garth dee its always busy
How much would it cost then, Eddie? The 'new build' costs may be less overall, but you'd have to pay substantial rent to the store operators instead.
Also, I think your figure of 'half of Tesco customers' is being over-optimistic. You've only got to read this thread to see how some peoples opinions are very polarised regarding MacD's.
Granted that MacD's brand name will pull in customers from outside Tescos that a normal caff wouldn't get, but I firmly believe we don't have the population up here to sustain such an outlet long term.
We had one cinema, plus a bowling alley,plus a bar in Thurso up until recently and that couldn't survive - even though it had a monopoly on the whole of the Far North. That's not trying to put a downer on any new investment up here - I'm all for it. But the fact remains that the Far North is a very difficult place to trade for any Independant business.
The people who talk about opening these wonderful retail and purchasing opportunities unfortunately are those who can't or won't put the funds in to back up their opinion that these ventures are worthwhile. And that's an observation - not a dig.
It's very telling that local business people (who are the ones who would be coughing up the cash) aren't too keen to get involved in such ventures. Why? Because they know they are very risky ventures that could easily swallow up a large chunk of capital for no realistic return.
A good local example: Caledonia Restaurant in Wick. Somebody got off their backside and created something they believed was worthwhile. Spent their money. Nicely furnished, swathes of people on here singing their praises in the early days. On the road to a bright future.
Eighteen months late: Gone.
It's the same with all the furore surrounding redevelopment at John O'Groats. Plenty of people standing up and shaking their fists at the usual suspects, loads of folks demanding 'money be spent' blah,blah,blah....
Until you get down to who exactly is going to fund all this...and guess what happens then?
It goes very, very, quiet on the local front.
Everybody is always happy to see someone elses money being spent on something that will benefit them. It's a different story if they have to spend their own money on something that involves risk......
I could just eat a McD's double cheeseburger, though.:Razz
But if u take a place like smelly peterhead which is half the size of thurso they have a drive through macdonalds and they seem to manage ok i think there is room for a macdonalds just the same as there is room for chip shops and chinese takeways and so on.
What really myths me is you see all the big names like argos homebase and big tescos in wick and so on come up to caithness when a big place like dounreay is on the run down i never understand that caithness could have done with all these shops about 20 years ago
I love a cheesburger and strawbery milkshake from macdonalds yum yum yum
northener
04-Nov-09, 21:19
But if u take a place like smelly peterhead which is half the size of thurso they have a drive through macdonalds and they seem to manage ok i think there is room for a macdonalds just the same as there is room for chip shops and chinese takeways and so on.
What really myths me is you see all the big names like argos homebase and big tescos in wick and so on come up to caithness when a big place like dounreay is on the run down i never understand that caithness could have done with all these shops about 20 years ago
I love a cheesburger and strawbery milkshake from macdonalds yum yum yum
Ahem:
Population of Peterhead: 19,000
Population of Thurso: 9,000
Twenty years ago the 'big players' that now populate Wick and Thurso were still building their empires. There's no way they would risk capital on quiet backwaters like our towns when there were easier pickings to be had down South.
The only reason they are here now is because they are big enough to take a punt on sites that are a significantly riskier investment. If Tesco's in Wick or Thurso went down the pan (highly unlikely) it wouldn't even make a small dent in Tescos' empire. Twenty years ago, the loss would have been more significant.
But if u take a place like smelly peterhead which is half the size of thurso they have a drive through macdonalds and they seem to manage ok i think there is room for a macdonalds just the same as there is room for chip shops and chinese takeways and so on.
What really myths me is you see all the big names like argos homebase and big tescos in wick and so on come up to caithness when a big place like dounreay is on the run down i never understand that caithness could have done with all these shops about 20 years ago
I love a cheesburger and strawbery milkshake from macdonalds yum yum yum
Half the size of Thurso??, Thurso has a population of just under 9,000. Peterhead has a population of just under 18,000
Ahem:
Population of Peterhead: 19,000
Population of Thurso: 9,000
Twenty years ago the 'big players' that now populate Wick and Thurso were still building their empires. There's no way they would risk capital on quiet backwaters like our towns when there were easier pickings to be had down South.
The only reason they are here now is because they are big enough to take a punt on sites that are a significantly riskier investment. If Tesco's in Wick or Thurso went down the pan (highly unlikely) it wouldn't even make a small dent in Tescos' empire. Twenty years ago, the loss would have been more significant.
i take it u have been googling
Whitewater
04-Nov-09, 21:53
''why have we not got a macdonalds resturant up here''
Because they are rubbish, lets get a 'Burger King' instead['
northener
04-Nov-09, 22:02
i take it u have been googling
Nope, I'm a very quick counter.......
''why have we not got a macdonalds resturant up here''
Because they are rubbish, lets get a 'Burger King' instead['
Macdonalds is a lot cleaner and more well presented than burger king
youoldduffer
05-Nov-09, 12:01
''why have we not got a macdonalds resturant up here''
Because they are rubbish, lets get a 'Burger King' instead['
Yer I second that McD's are crap.
northener
05-Nov-09, 12:07
Here's a thought. Why does it have to be an internationally recognised brand?
There's plenty of outlets that sell burgers in Caithness and some of them use local burgers that surpass anything supplied by the big chains.
So...are we 'going for a burger and chips' or are we going to an outlet simply because of it's marketing and 'image'?
annthracks
05-Nov-09, 12:15
Indeed. I've said it before - if you want the same facilities as Inverness - move to Inverness!
Going slightly(!) off topic, but I couldn't resist - If people want the same laws and facilities as they have in their homeland, GET OUT OF BRITAIN!!
There is a deffo lack of burger vans in Caithness. No need to do greasy chips with everything sort of joint but just good prime quality flame-grilled food is what is appreciated. I hated the Council ethos that vans are stealing customers from established traders in the towns. Let people with a good sense of a good business opportunity be given the chance to thrive instead of a blanket 'No' to A9 traders. [disgust]
I think Caithness is better off without it, to be honest. .
Definitely second that. Nothing squeaky clean about the way the poor animals are treated. They target children in advertising campaigns, which encourages them to eat addictive unhealthy food.
Below just one of the many reasons to boycott McDonalds.
"FIFTY ACRES EVERY MINUTE
EVERY year an area of rainforest the size of Britain is cut down or defoliated, and burnt. Globally, one billion people depend on water flowing from these forests, which soak up rain and release it gradually. The disaster in Ethiopia and Sudan is at leastpartly due to uncontrolled deforestation. In Amazonia - where there are now about 100,000 beef ranches - torrential rains sweep down through the treeless valleys, eroding the land and washing away the soil. The bare earth, baked by the tropical sun, becoms useless for agriculture. It has been estimated that this destruction causes at least one species of animal, plant or insect to become extinct every few hours." (source - http://www.mcspotlight.org/case/pretrial/factsheet.html )
Do you know... I cannot, for the life of me, think of any sound reason why any sane human being would want a MuckyDonalds to go to. I have given them a huge berth since discovering the filthy pranks that some of their sick employees get up to. :confused
loving the use of the word "restaurant" in the post title....I wish MuckyD's wouldn't use the word as it devalues it for everybody else
Going slightly(!) off topic, but I couldn't resist - If people want the same laws and facilities as they have in their homeland, GET OUT OF BRITAIN!!
Interesting use of 'Homeland' - remind anyone of a weel kent southern hemisphere country that had distinct views on who belongs where? ;)
Miss Mack
08-Nov-09, 13:49
Definitely a no for me. In Edinburgh a few weeks ago and my son insisted on a macdonalds for lunch and it was like eating a bit of cardboard,even the sprite was watered down with the amount of ice cubes in it.Keep them in Inverness as far as I am concerned
Yip, tastes like cardboard to me aswell. Burger King is silghtly better in my opinion !
One of the best things about living in Caithness was my daughter never developed a taste for the "food" they serve. I did try it again recently because we were on the road and there was not much choice. Felt very unwell after.
I have never liked macdonalds. I want real food not rubbish. the only thing i ever get there is there ice cream and that is very seldom.
I have never liked macdonalds. I want real food not rubbish. the only thing i ever get there is there ice cream and that is very seldom.
I don't even think the ice cream is real...I think they use milk.
I don't even think the ice cream is real...I think they use milk.
well that explains why it tastes a bit different to normal ice cream. ;)
anneoctober
09-Nov-09, 16:50
Be even more fatties in Caithness if McDonalds arrived there.
just like in e states.........:roll:
Invisible
09-Nov-09, 17:11
If you look at Wick for example - the place is filled with places to eat or places to get food from, perhaps there is too much competition for McDonalds. The only fast food chain I would promote is Subway - bonny n good.
bettedaviseyes
09-Nov-09, 19:12
make your own big mac http://www.topsecretrecipes.com/home.asp :lol:
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