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cuddlepop
30-Oct-09, 18:38
Settle an argument please.

Can an employer sack you while you are submitting sick lines?

I say they cant and Oh says they can as you have "frustated your contract" as your unable to work.:confused

lazytown
30-Oct-09, 18:40
from a quick google, it seems that if you have been employed less than a year then you have no protection, however if more than a year your are protected by law

davie
30-Oct-09, 18:41
Yes you can be fired when submitting sick lines. The normal rules on redundancy & notice would apply but the reason for dismissal would be 'unable to carry out duties' or some such terminology.

M R
30-Oct-09, 18:41
Technically you can be both disciplined and sacked whilst off sick. However, the company has to be able to demonstrate that it followed a fair procedure, and this would be difficult to do if you were not there.

Straight from google :)

northener
30-Oct-09, 18:42
Under certain circumstances, yes.

Lifted off the DirectGov website:

Illness

If you are persistently off sick (or on long-term sick), your employer should normally look at any alternatives before deciding to dismiss you. For example, they might have to consider whether the job itself is making you sick and needs to be changed.
You can still be dismissed if you are off sick.
Your employer would normally be expected to allow a reasonable amount of time for you to recover from your illness. The actual amount will depend on things like:

how long it will take you to recover
how certain it is that you will recover (with some illnesses, like broken bones, it is clear how long it will take but with something like stress it can be uncertain)
how easy it is to get cover for your job
whether your job can be kept open
If you have a disability (which may include long-term illness), your employer has a legal duty to try to find a way round the problem. They must make 'reasonable adjustments' to how and/or where you work. Dismissal because of a disability may be unlawful discrimination.

cuddlepop
30-Oct-09, 18:48
If thats the case then he's right ..in a sense...;)

So if you had cancer that was treatable and were off sick for months you would be sacked for being sick.:eek:

riggerboy
30-Oct-09, 18:54
If thats the case then he's right ..in a sense...;)

So if you had cancer that was treatable and were off sick for months you would be sacked for being sick.:eek:



see were better off on the bru ye canna get the sack for being sick on the bru ???


(not saying cuddlepops on the bru)

cuddlepop
30-Oct-09, 18:57
see were better off on the bru ye canna get the sack for being sick on the bru ???


(not saying cuddlepops on the bru)

No I'm a carer who receives less money than if I was on the bru.:roll:

Someone we know is having to hand in sick lines because the medical profession cant decide if its this or that but we'll treat for this first.......:confused

Jeid
30-Oct-09, 19:38
They can aye. Happened to a colleague of mine not so long ago.

northener
30-Oct-09, 20:23
If thats the case then he's right ..in a sense...;)

So if you had cancer that was treatable and were off sick for months you would be sacked for being sick.:eek:

You could be sacked, if the company could not reasonably be expected to cope with the time off or need to bing in someone else to replace. It's a very grey area and, as always, each case should be judged on it's merits.

Fran
30-Oct-09, 23:24
My former employer sacked me whilst I was off sick and providing sick certificates so i took her to tribunial. You cannot be sacked, it is against the law, if you are providing doctors certificates. your employer should find you different work that you would be capable of, eg not lifting heavy loads.
as for having cancer, even diabetes, it is illegal to be sacked.
If anyone with cancer has a problem contact the Macmillan Citizens advice bureau at Raigmore hospital. what a wonderful job they do. You can contact them by phone.

sweetpea
30-Oct-09, 23:26
Morally you would probably say it's not right but if your trying to run a business then what do you do? Sack em or keep paying a wage?

cuddlepop
31-Oct-09, 15:16
Morally you would probably say it's not right but if your trying to run a business then what do you do? Sack em or keep paying a wage?

I thought they were just entitled to statutory sick pay which is government funded so they wouldnt be paying your wage.Only the big companys like the Hc pay you at your take home pay for 6months and then half pay.
Granted someone else may have to be employed on a temp bases or workload spread out amongst excisting staff.

I know its a difficult situation to be in if your an employer but its not your fault if you submitting sick lines.:confused

EDDIE
31-Oct-09, 15:27
If they have good reason to sack you then i would say yes
If u have been off sick for a long peroid they have to draw the line in the sand if u are going to be off even longer
The problem these days is there is to much people going on the sick and getting full pay when there is nothing wrong with them thats whay a lot of companys are stop paying full wages to people on the sick because its getting abused

lhm
31-Oct-09, 18:46
No an employer cannot just sack you without calling you in first for a meeting to see if their are any changes they can make to your work or giving you a different job that is suitable if that is not reasonably practable yes then they can then terminate your contract but they have to be seen to try to help you first otherwise they leave themselves open to be taken for unfair dismissal hope this helps.

cuddlepop
31-Oct-09, 19:13
No an employer cannot just sack you without calling you in first for a meeting to see if their are any changes they can make to your work or giving you a different job that is suitable if that is not reasonably practable yes then they can then terminate your contract but they have to be seen to try to help you first otherwise they leave themselves open to be taken for unfair dismissal hope this helps.


This is a purely hypothetical question that we're arguing about.

Oh still says that if an employer cannot restructure your job,ie create a new one for you,then your out.:(

Gizmo
31-Oct-09, 19:15
see were better off on the bru ye canna get the sack for being sick on the bru ???


(not saying cuddlepops on the bru)

Once again, proving your ignorance Riggerboy.

You can have your benefit claim cancelled for any number of reasons, i'm out of work, and i don't get a single penny in benefits, but i still have to sign on every fortnight, and go through all the other pointless garbage that the Job Centre do, so that my NI contribution gets paid. Now because i don't get any money from them, and the fact that i have terrible memory problems these days, i have, quite a few times, completely forgotten about my signing on day, and if you are late for a signing day by more than 7 days, they cancel your claim, and you have to start all over again, so you are wrong, you can get sacked from the Bru, it's happened to me.

riggerboy
31-Oct-09, 19:42
Once again, proving your ignorance Riggerboy.

You can have your benefit claim cancelled for any number of reasons, i'm out of work, and i don't get a single penny in benefits, but i still have to sign on every fortnight, and go through all the other pointless garbage that the Job Centre do, so that my NI contribution gets paid. Now because i don't get any money from them, and the fact that i have terrible memory problems these days, i have, quite a few times, completely forgotten about my signing on day, and if you are late for a signing day by more than 7 days, they cancel your claim, and you have to start all over again, so you are wrong, you can get sacked from the Bru, it's happened to me.

and once again your own ignorance shines through, if you were to read my post i think you will find i wrote you cannot get the sack from the bru for being sick,

Gizmo
31-Oct-09, 19:46
and once again your own ignorance shines through, if you were to read my post i think you will find i wrote you cannot get the sack from the bru for being sick,

Yes you can, if you are sick, and forget to go and sign on, you get the sack, and much quicker than you would from an employer ;)

cuddlepop
31-Oct-09, 20:19
Yes you can, if you are sick, and forget to go and sign on, you get the sack, and much quicker than you would from an employer ;)


If your even late on the same day it causes problems..who ever said signing on was easy has never done it themselves.:confused

riggerboy
01-Nov-09, 08:46
Yes you can, if you are sick, and forget to go and sign on, you get the sack, and much quicker than you would from an employer ;)


in that case you would have been sacked for being forgetful not for being sick, lol

j_1971son
01-Nov-09, 21:23
Settle an argument please.

Can an employer sack you while you are submitting sick lines?

I say they cant and Oh says they can as you have "frustated your contract" as your unable to work.:confused

No they cannot sack you as long as you can keep providing sick notes to your employer, your employer may ask you to attend a long term absence meeting to discuss your illness and any possible adjustments, although i think after being off for a year things might change.

Murdina Bug
01-Nov-09, 21:47
Yes, they can, providing they follow the a correct procedure. See www.businesslink.gov.uk (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk) for all sorts of useful info, such as the para below.

Long-term sickness and dismissal

An employee's inability to do their job because of long-term sick leave can be a potentially fair reason for dismissal.
However, in the event of an unfair dismissal complaint, an employment tribunal will expect you to have acted reasonably by:

consulting the employee and finding out as much as possible about their condition and the likely timescale for their recovery
considering all the alternatives to dismissal, such as changing the employee's role or hours of work
However, the tribunal will take into account your business' size when deciding whether a dismissal was reasonable.
See our guides on when an employee leaves through ill health (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073932288), managing absence and sickness (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1074209970) and dismissal (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1074200615).
You should also consider whether or not the employee is disabled under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 when considering dismissal on the grounds of long-term sickness. See our guide on how to prevent discrimination and value diversity (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1074003268).

Penelope Pitstop
02-Nov-09, 13:03
I thought they were just entitled to statutory sick pay which is government funded so they wouldnt be paying your wage.Only the big companys like the Hc pay you at your take home pay for 6months and then half pay.
Granted someone else may have to be employed on a temp bases or workload spread out amongst excisting staff.

I know its a difficult situation to be in if your an employer but its not your fault if you submitting sick lines.:confused

The government doesn't pay your sick pay if you're off sick - your employer has to stump up for it - they don't get the money back from the Government. Only after many weeks can the employer claim a very small percentage back.

Statutory sick pay is only payable for 6 months - your employer will then advise you to look into the possibility of claiming benefits.

cuddlepop
02-Nov-09, 16:06
The government doesn't pay your sick pay if you're off sick - your employer has to stump up for it - they don't get the money back from the Government. Only after many weeks can the employer claim a very small percentage back.

Statutory sick pay is only payable for 6 months - your employer will then advise you to look into the possibility of claiming benefits.

So your employer pays you 75.40 which is the SSP for 28 weeks and then you have to claim for benefit if your still off.
This may be my "confused" way of thinking but if they normally pay you a wage exceeding that and they dont employ someone else to do your job then surely that means there saving money.:confused

cuddlepop
02-Nov-09, 16:13
The official line.

Sickness Issues and SSP

9. Dismissal

If you can show you have considered all the alternatives and consulted the employee, you can dismiss a person for reasons of sickness.
9.1 You can dismiss a sick employee at any time when it is reasonable to do so.

In established companies, this may mean waiting for the full 28-week SSP period.
In a small firm where a gap in the ranks could threaten the business, it might be reasonable to dismiss very much sooner.
9.2 You will need to have gathered all the facts, including full medical information, to show that the dismissal is reasonable.
9.3 Contact the employee's GP, with his or her permission, and get a medical assessment.

The employee has the right to refuse permission, or to see the doctor's report and to request amendments to it. In case of doubt, ask the employee to agree to an independent examination.
If you get no co-operation, explain that a decision will be taken on the basis of available information, which may result in dismissal.
9.4 If there is no serious prospect of an eventual return to work, explain to the employee that the job can no longer be kept open.
9.5 Confirm the dismissal, giving the appropriate written notice and the appropriate pay.


That may settle our differences of opinion but I would imagine this process would cause you even more "stress ....sickness".:eek:
(http://www.is4profit.com/component/labels/employment-regulations.html)

Penelope Pitstop
05-Nov-09, 20:56
So your employer pays you 75.40 which is the SSP for 28 weeks and then you have to claim for benefit if your still off.
This may be my "confused" way of thinking but if they normally pay you a wage exceeding that and they dont employ someone else to do your job then surely that means there saving money.:confused

I suppose you could say if they didn't employ anyone else that they don't need the person anyway !!!!

cuddlepop
08-Nov-09, 10:44
I suppose you could say if they didn't employ anyone else that they don't need the person anyway !!!!

They do it all the time at HC so what does that tell you about there staffing levels.:roll:

weeboyagee
08-Nov-09, 18:22
No an employer cannot just sack you without calling you in first for a meeting to see if their are any changes they can make to your work or giving you a different job that is suitable if that is not reasonably practable yes then they can then terminate your contract but they have to be seen to try to help you first otherwise they leave themselves open to be taken for unfair dismissal hope this helps.
The long and short of it is that an employer can indeed terminate your contract after due process is followed if they believe that they have exhausted all other avenues, and whilst they are in receipt of medical certificates.

WBG :cool:

K.B
10-Nov-09, 22:41
Morally you would probably say it's not right but if your trying to run a business then what do you do? Sack em or keep paying a wage?


I thought that the government paid your sick pay not your employer?:confused