View Full Version : Racism? Where Do We Draw The Line?
I was just thinking after hearing an article on BBC Radio 2 last week about racism involving the word "Paki."
Don't get me wrong I hate racism and don't encourage it in the slightest. But I am trying to understand how the word "Paki" is racist and the word "Scot" isn't?
I mean "Scot" comes from the word "Scottish." "Paki" comes from the word "Pakistani" so why is one racist and the other isn't?
:confused:
No one is keen for helping me out on this one no?
NickInTheNorth
30-Oct-09, 16:21
I was just thinking after hearing an article on BBC Radio 2 last week about racism involving the word "Paki."
Don't get me wrong I hate racism and don't encourage it in the slightest. But I am trying to understand how the word "Paki" is racist and the word "Scot" isn't?
I mean "Scot" comes from the word "Scottish." "Paki" comes from the word "Pakistani" so why is one racist and the other isn't?
:confused:
I cannot think of any context in which calling someone a Paki is not racist, particularly as it is generally used about anyone of an appearance of someone from the Indian sub-continent rgardless of their ethnicity.
And I cannot recall ever hearing it said in a way that has led me to believe that the person uttering the word was not using it in a derogatory sense.
When Prince Harry said it to one of his Pakistani friends?
The friend was allright with it. So was harry
The media jumped on it!
Metalattakk
30-Oct-09, 16:24
And I cannot recall ever hearing it said in a way that has led me to believe that the person uttering the word was not using it in a derogatory sense.
You'll not have watched much Australian cricket TV coverage then. They use the word quite innocently, in much the way that people use the word 'Scot' or 'Aussie'.
I mean "Scot" comes from the word "Scottish." "Paki" comes from the word "Pakistani" so why is one racist and the other isn't?
:confused:
Surely you understand that in the United Kingdom racism is only attributable to the white indigenous population.
Of course NickInTheNorth's answer is 100% correct but how many .orgers who profess to be non racist refer to certain clothing shops as the 'Pakis', certain food shops as the 'Chinkies' and so on, with no thought of racism in their minds. ?
I never do that! like I make a point of not saying words like that!
There are plenty people who I know that seem to racist for no reason. Like there's a guy I work with who doesn't like certain music depending on what race recorded it!
True story!
riggerboy
30-Oct-09, 16:49
well i never take the chance of calling any of the indian race paki due to the fact that they may take offence or that some non paki will think i am be racist so i call all pakistani folks
stani never an eyebru raised
Come on, Who do we scream 'racism' to when we're called a Jock, a limey or a white honky? Who do the Irish go to when they are called Paddy? Or the English when we call them a sassenach? Or an Eastender when they are called a Cockney? Paki is short for Pakistani in a world where we tend to shorten words and is NOT racist - as you said any more than a Scot.
Chinkie is an abreviation of Chinese restaurant. Chippy is an abreviation of fish and chip shop, and I don't hear any complaints from that quarter. If you ask me everything is going a bit too far these days.
riggerboy
30-Oct-09, 18:56
Come on, Who do we scream 'racism' to when we're called a Jock, a limey or a white honky? Who do the Irish go to when they are called Paddy? Or the English when we call them a sassenach? Or an Eastender when they are called a Cockney? Paki is short for Pakistani in a world where we tend to shorten words and is NOT racist - as you said any more than a Scot.
Chinkie is an abreviation of Chinese restaurant. Chippy is an abreviation of fish and chip shop, and I don't hear any complaints from that quarter. If you ask me everything is going a bit too far these days.
here here .......
I mean "Scot" comes from the word "Scottish." "Paki" comes from the word "Pakistani" so why is one racist and the other isn't?
:confused:
I think you better get your facts right The Scots were a people who came from Ireland and settled here, thus Scotland became the name of our country, so it is not racist to be called a Scot or Scots!! But it is racist to call someone from Pakistan a Paki[disgust]
I knew this thread would have people with their knickers in a twist.
Paki, no more racist than calling an Australian an Aussie, an American a Yank or a French person a Frog...
Lavenderblue2
30-Oct-09, 19:52
The day before yesterday I was ashamed to see the word 'Paki' daubed, albeit faintly, on the wall beside the cash machine at Macoll's High Ormlie.
northener
30-Oct-09, 20:28
The problem arises as 'Paki' is commonly used as a direct insult as opposed to slang reference to ones' background.
There's loads of examples of Prince Harry type situations where small groups of friends have what appear to be very insulting nicknames for each other.
But I can guarantee that the shaven-headed chaps stood with cans of lager in their hands on a street corner are not being jocular when they shout "Oi! Paki!" at the woman across the road......
Certainly an emotive subject. Have we any Pakistani's here to add some dimension to the thread?
Ultimately it is going to be down to the individual using the term and the person being referred to (if the scenario fits) to decide if it's racist.
Leaving the question of how we accept and view the term "Paki" aside for the minute, where will it end?
I am regularly referred to as a Manc bar steward, well it sounds like that as the scouse git that utters this is hard to understand due to his accent, but he is after all a militant scouse git.
Is this too far?
northener
30-Oct-09, 21:36
Certainly an emotive subject. Have we any Pakistani's here to add some dimension to the thread?
Ultimately it is going to be down to the individual using the term and the person being referred to (if the scenario fits) to decide if it's racist.
Leaving the question of how we accept and view the term "Paki" aside for the minute, where will it end?
I am regularly referred to as a Manc bar steward, well it sounds like that as the scouse git that utters this is hard to understand due to his accent, but he is after all a militant scouse git.
Is this too far?
I'm regularly called an FEB by my Scotch friends........:Razz
I am of Pakistani descent and would like to shed some light on the use of the word 'Paki'.
This word is often often used with derogatory and racist meanings. The word is used for all the people of Sub Continent which has more than one country including Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.
Bangladesh was part of Pakistan before 1971 and was called East Pakistan. It got independance in 1971.
Bangladeshi people came to UK in early fifties and established restaurants called then Indian Restaurants. As they were of Pakistani nationality ( at that time ) and term Paki was used. In the initial period of time it was not demeaning.The term later on became demeaning, derogatory and racist as It is shouted often as racist abuse to people of subcontinent origin.
A person from Pakistan would prefer to be called as Pakistani,a person from India is Indian and likewise Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan who are from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
:)
highland red
30-Oct-09, 21:58
This whole "affair" is bloody crazy. To call someone a "Paki" is just a shortened word for their race: but it seems to have been turned into a racial slur by the "people that know best. just the same as I was called a "Pom" when I lived in Australia: (and proud of it).
This is PC gone mad. I really think the name of the game these days is: be a closet racist, think it, but for goodness sake don't (get caught) airing it! I think that was partly proven when a "list" of members of The BNP was found to contain people in The Civil Service and The Home Office etc.
The next thing is I'll be going to The powers that be for someone referring to me as an "incomer": which I am.
"incomer"
You dared to mention the "I" word!!!!!!!!
A person from Pakistan would prefer to be called as Pakistani,a person from India is Indian and likewise Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan who are from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
Well I think that's a damn good answer! :D
In my time I have caused great offence to many races.
In particular new zealanders whom I have called aussies.
Canadians whom I have mistakenly called americans.
In return I have been called heather hopper - tuechtar in scotland.
Whilst abroad I have been called english and on many occasions when I have explained that I am scottish - have been called a miser / scrounger.
The practice was referred to as "slotting" when I was younger - or a more accurate expression which gives it is full expression to its sinister intent might be racial profiling.
This happens when some who you dont know automatically assumes that you conform to a racial stereotype because they are to lazy or unwilling to make the effort recognise the person as an individual.
Yes we are all guilty from time to time - no we probably are not racist for the most part - but are we really arguing that we should be excused for being too lazy to care about others in teh community ?
This whole "affair" is bloody crazy. To call someone a "Paki" is just a shortened word for their race: but it seems to have been turned into a racial slur by the "people that know best.
Nope it has been turned into a racist word by the people who scrawled it in 2 foot high letters all over the front of other people's houses - usually along with the words "go Home" or worse. Or who spatit out when beating up some laddie on the street When we initially looked at the prince harry incident on here i posted a link to this article http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5496878.ece its worth reading again ithink
In the seventies the National Front used it to great effect and it retains its violent and unpleasant connections. For those of you who say its no different than being called a scot or a pom or a scouser I cant imagine any of you have ever heard those words chanted over and over again as you sit in your house with the curtains shut afraid you're going to get a brick through the window. If you had lived with that then you might feel differently everytime you heard someone refer to you in that manner.
As an add on to this did anyone see the channel four programme last night with the blue eyes/ brown eyes thing? Anybody else been involved in that sort of excercise?
I've heard a minority of folk say 'the english' with quite some venom, then again it's all in the context really.
Boozeburglar
30-Oct-09, 23:50
Hear hear! It really does not matter what the origin of the word is now; it is deemed a racist slur and you cannot ignore that when you choose to use it.
My ex was from Pakistan and I can assure you she found it not only offensive; but also extremely lazy as the casual user 99% of the time uses it as shorthand for the colour of skin someone has. In the majority of cases it is used by people who have no idea of the origin of the people they are addressing.
If you get into semantics, it is perhaps not strictly racism but is certainly a slur based on skin colour.
My mother in law, prompted by the Nick Griffin debacle, was talking about how when she came to the UK there were signs up everywhere they tried to rent saying "No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs."
There but for the grace of God go all of us.
:)
I'm regularly called an FEB by my Scotch friends........:Razz
I'm splitting hairs Northener, but "Scotch" only applies to whisky, broth and eggs!!!!!
highland red
31-Oct-09, 00:06
I am of Pakistani descent and would like to shed some light on the use of the word 'Paki'.
This word is often often used with derogatory and racist meanings. The word is used for all the people of Sub Continent which has more than one country including Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.
Bangladesh was part of Pakistan before 1971 and was called East Pakistan. It got independance in 1971.
Bangladeshi people came to UK in early fifties and established restaurants called then Indian Restaurants. As they were of Pakistani nationality ( at that time ) and term Paki was used. In the initial period of time it was not demeaning.The term later on became demeaning, derogatory and racist as It is shouted often as racist abuse to people of subcontinent origin.
A person from Pakistan would prefer to be called as Pakistani,a person from India is Indian and likewise Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan who are from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
:)
You may think we all need a history lesson here, but I can assure you I don't. My Father was a fluent Urdu and Hindi speaker and I could count to ten in Urdu before I could do it in English. What you explain is correct but it still doesn't address the issue as to where people are from and what THEY would prefer to be called.
I was married in Australia and now have more "AUSSIE" relatives than English. My Grandmother was American and my direct relatives are Irish, I have TWO part Aboriginal Sisters- in Law and my Nephew is married to a lass from Taiwan. My first cousin is married to a Chinese lass and have just had their first baby girl. My other first cousin has lived in Denmark for a long time and I now have seven Danish relatives too: (not including relatives by marriage).
On my Wife's side: her cousins are married to a Swede (is that a racist slur?) and his sister is now married to an Italian. The other cousin is married to an Uzbekistani ( again is that the wrong way to explain?).
I really just don't get this PC S**t.
P.S. If my identity now gets "blown" I now have to contend with all I have explained before. And the truth is: I am still an Incomer. AND if someone chooses to address me as such whether I like it or not, that's really what I am (fact). What's the big deal???
is this family history meant to convince us how worldly your views could be ?
the words 'incomer', 'swede' or 'aussie' have never been an accessory to a brick through your window, being spat on or beaten up.
the word paki has.
it's a racist form of abuse in the UK, the non-racists who use the word need to have more compassion for the victims of this abuse and make more of an effort and use the word Pakistani/Indian...
if it's not racist, then would you address a waiter in an indian restaurant with ' oi Paki ' .... ?
can you please explain why your dad was fluent in Urdu and Hindi ?
highland red
31-Oct-09, 01:12
is this family history meant to convince us how worldly your views could be ?
the words 'incomer', 'swede' or 'aussie' have never been an accessory to a brick through your window, being spat on or beaten up.
the word paki has.
it's a racist form of abuse in the UK, the non-racists who use the word need to have more compassion for the victims of this abuse and make more of an effort and use the word Pakistani/Indian...
if it's not racist, then would you address a waiter in an indian restaurant with ' oi Paki ' .... ?
can you please explain why your dad was fluent in Urdu and Hindi ?
Firstly how do YOU know that the terms "incomer, Swede or Aussie" have never been used as an accessory to a brick through a window? I personally would never use a derogatory remark (such as the one you use) but I can't speak for others.
What I do know is that in the early days in Oz ( sorry Australia), I got a real good kicking from a bunch of "Aussies" just because I was a "Pom".
Was citing the reason(being a Pom) going to change anything? Were these people open to discussion about their attitudes being not PC? NO mate, no. Nothing has changed. A/holes will always be A/holes, and there is no amount of legislation will change it.
It had nothing to do with anything other that these guys needed an excuse, ( sorry I know these days you don't need one). You really are missing the point here my friend. I agree with you that ALL abuse (racist or otherwise) is not acceptable
As for my Father's linguistics, I will only say that he spent a very long time in India and Pakistan.
P.S.On a few occasions whilst talking to much older people native of Caithness I have, during conversation, encountered the term "those blackies" when referring to negative topics such as crime etc.
It is an awful slur, and one that is not of our time, but these people are really nice and honourable people. What would YOU have me do? give them a lesson in acceptable terms and why they shouldn't use it?
These people are very old people AND despite their age they are entitled to THEIR opinions too.
northener
31-Oct-09, 01:17
I'm splitting hairs Northener, but "Scotch" only applies to whisky, broth and eggs!!!!!
.....................;)
do you agree that the term Paki is unacceptable ?
am sorry to hear that you received a kicking in Oz for being a pom, but that makes me think that you would understand and therefore abhor the use of racist terms ...
i know what you mean about the old school, they were brought up with what they were taught were acceptable terms only to find themselves in a modern world where they aren't any longer.
but that's progress, they seem able to adapt to most changes in their day to day lives (indoor toilets etc) so they should be able to do likewise with racist terminology. sadly this racist legacy won't die with them.
i was asking about your dad as your message had undertones of a colonial outlook.
your reluctance to divulge what he did in India doesn't help....
Kevin Milkins
31-Oct-09, 02:04
Not so long ago I went to the aid of a cat that was stuck on the roof of an elderly ladies house and during a conversation with this sweet old girl she casually said "are you a foreigner, your not a Weeker" :eek: (I am Welsh).
I didn't have the heart to give her a good kicking.;)
roadbowler
31-Oct-09, 10:52
think i definately agree with squidge here. It is about the context of how it is used. Those of you who think incomer or english isna used at times with the same venom and hatred here as i've seen living in the cities in scotland how some people use the words paki, chinkie, coloureds need to think again. I've had people assume i'm english here because i'm an incomer but, my how their attitude changes when they find out i'm not. I find that quite shocking and ignorant to say the least! Of course, there are a few who think any incomer is synomynous with scum or dregs no matter where your from or what colour your skin is or social status. I struggle to understand this. People need to have a bit more tolerance for their fellow human beings all round.
highland red
31-Oct-09, 11:15
do you agree that the term Paki is unacceptable ?
am sorry to hear that you received a kicking in Oz for being a pom, but that makes me think that you would understand and therefore abhor the use of racist terms ...
i know what you mean about the old school, they were brought up with what they were taught were acceptable terms only to find themselves in a modern world where they aren't any longer.
but that's progress, they seem able to adapt to most changes in their day to day lives (indoor toilets etc) so they should be able to do likewise with racist terminology. sadly this racist legacy won't die with them.
i was asking about your dad as your message had undertones of a colonial outlook.
your reluctance to divulge what he did in India doesn't help....
For me personally, the term "Paki" is totally unacceptable in this day and age. If you have read my posts you should see that I don't agree with it.
All I'm trying to illustrate is that the PC brigade make mountains out of mole hills and some have created a nice (and lucrative) niche for themselves.
I'm afraid I must have have a thicker skin than some (no reference to a thick head thanks) as I'm afraid whatever I get called Pom, limey Brit, incomer etc: and I've been called them all,doesn't bother me one jot as I am all of those things.
As for your insistent call for me to "divulge" my Fathers past (you appear to reveal a colonial conspiracy where there isn't one) I was merely exercising my democratic right to tell you all if I want to.
There is no big secret. He was a marine diesel engineer ( not a colonial one) and loved his time in both countries keeping in touch with many old friends (native people) right up until his death.
P.S. whilst I was giving you my "family history" I forgot to mention that the best man at our wedding was Burmese.
fingalmacool
31-Oct-09, 17:28
We are such a mixed up race that the name gives it away, we are all ish, except the Welsh, which are nearly there, ScottISH, EngLISH, IrISH, so when these names were first muted, they must have known that we were a mishmash race and no mistake:confused
I am of Pakistani descent and would like to shed some light on the use of the word 'Paki'.
This word is often often used with derogatory and racist meanings. The word is used for all the people of Sub Continent which has more than one country including Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.
Bangladesh was part of Pakistan before 1971 and was called East Pakistan. It got independance in 1971.
Bangladeshi people came to UK in early fifties and established restaurants called then Indian Restaurants. As they were of Pakistani nationality ( at that time ) and term Paki was used. In the initial period of time it was not demeaning.The term later on became demeaning, derogatory and racist as It is shouted often as racist abuse to people of subcontinent origin.
A person from Pakistan would prefer to be called as Pakistani,a person from India is Indian and likewise Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan who are from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
:)
And how is it that whenever theres any civil shennanigans in the Uk the press call them "Asian youths"? They are usually of a Pakistani origin, which to me, is offensive to the Chinese, Russian,Nepalese or any other Asian countries nationals.
I'm regularly called an FEB by my Scotch friends........:Razz
I get called that every summer Im in Thurso at least once and its always in a pub by someone who cant handle their drink. Usually say something back like "Oh I was going to ask you if you wanted a dram but if thats your attitude". Just as well Im thick skinned. :lol:
Anything can be racists if its said in a certain way. The word scot is rarely used in a racist way but it like paki, english etc can be turned racist with the wrong attitude behind the words.
oldmarine
31-Oct-09, 18:24
I see 'racist' in a different light than what I read here. I grew up in in a Nortthern state in the USA in a mixed neighborhood where we had all different kinds of ethnic groups and religions. We had very few racism problems there. However, when I entered military service during WW2, I saw a lot of problems that were related between blacks and whites that had its beginning with slavery in the Southern part of our country. I had never experienced that situation and I was appalled by what I saw. For the most part that has been overcome by different attitudes in our USA. Racism has a terrible effect on those peoples who become the victims.
I get called that every summer Im in Thurso at least once and its always in a pub by someone who cant handle their drink.
That once happened to me. Someone in the Comm was giving me some grief but I kept cool and carried on in his conversation. I asked him where he was from he said Thurso and he actually asked me where I was from. I told him from Cumbria and his eyes lit up and said his mother lives there now.:eek: Then it twigged, I knew his mother and husband and I asked him if he knew such and such and he said that the man was his mother's husband. Bingo! I made a friend, but the best was to come, I explained to him that his stepfather was related to me by marriage through my aunty and that I used to work with him. It is a small world... Well he couldn't buy me enough drink that night and I was steaming.:Razz
We're all Jock Tamson's bairns I guess! ;)
A long time ago, society thought n * * * * r was an acceptable term to describe a black person. It was used in such a racist manner, however, that as the country matured we dropped it from the lexicon.
Not so long ago, society thought p * * i was an acceptable term to describe someone of Asian appearance. It was used in such a racist manner - and used to brand people irrespective of where they came from - that as the country matured we dropped it from our language.
Think of terms like the "P * * i corner shop". The proprietors may well have been born in Brixton or Bradford, so labelling them according to the colour of their skin clearly had racist tones.
Someone from Scotland tends to be branded a Scot or a Jock because of their accent, not because of the colour of our skin.
The continued use of the word p * * i to describe someone of asian appearance is ignorance at best.
Pakistan is a nation, not a race. Like all nations, it has artificial boundaries.
We are all coloured - it is simply that some of us have pigmentation of the skin that is lighter or darker than others.
I can't help but smile at the irony of those with prejudice towards darker-skinned people, yet who travel to sunnier countries every year in order to darken the colour of their own skin.
Whilst I appreciate Doctor`s reply I would struggle to know without having engaged the person in conversation which country of a sub continent they were from, so try my best not to offend.
Regularly referred to in the 1960`s by Caithness natives as "them atomics" the term was just accecpted. Nowadays it would be politically incorrect.
In corner shop in Edinburgh a few weeks ago the Indian owner, when asked about a product told me, "we don`t stock that anymore, but the P... shop on the next street does." When I lived there and used both neighbourhood shops regularly I had no idea the owners were from different places.
I can't help but smile at the irony of those with prejudice towards darker-skinned people, yet who travel to sunnier countries every year in order to darken the colour of their own skin.
I really like this bit! So many 'white' people spend so much time on sun beds and in the sun or plastering themselves with fake tan just to look as dark as the very people that they MAY be racist against!
There's nowt as strange as folk!
I can't help but smile at the irony of those with prejudice towards darker-skinned people, yet who travel to sunnier countries every year in order to darken the colour of their own skin.
And then theres Michael Jackson.
northener
04-Nov-09, 21:07
By coincidence I was called an "English B*%*%*%*d" yesterday.[lol]
What a nice level headed and polite gentleman he was.....
And no, this wasn't some Ned or one of Wicks' more 'select' occupants but some guy in a reasonably smart car in his 60's.:roll:
hey ho
Oh Northerner, my dad used to be called that regularly by my mum. He said it was a term of endearment!
I worked some years ago in a quarry and the drivers could be quite rough. One of them was giving me a verbally hard time, and the boss intervened. The foreman driver piped up "Bovine mediocrity" to the office manager and she smiled and walked away. That roughly translates as "silly cow" but as the foreman was smiling as he spoke it took on a totally different meaning.
As the old saying goes................"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me".
George Brims
04-Nov-09, 21:49
And then theres Michael Jackson.
Well there was...
tartanyorkie
04-Nov-09, 22:53
My son was called a FEB at school! What do you do? I was furious, especially as I have been discriminated against when looking for work. I did not realise how bad it was up here. In England, when you meet Scottish people you do not bat an eyelid but up here they really hate us. I laughed at my mother for hating Germans when the ones who caused the war are dead but what do you do with people who are carrying a grudge from centuries ago?
but what do you do with people who are carrying a grudge from centuries ago?
Gag them before they have the chance to shout 'freedom!'
tartanyorkie
04-Nov-09, 23:06
Gag them before they have the chance to shout 'freedom!'
It is laughable really, but not so funny when you are on the receiving end. I was so naive when I first arrived.
northener
04-Nov-09, 23:07
My son was called a FEB at school! What do you do? I was furious, especially as I have been discriminated against when looking for work. I did not realise how bad it was up here. In England, when you meet Scottish people you do not bat an eyelid but up here they really hate us. I laughed at my mother for hating Germans when the ones who caused the war are dead but what do you do with people who are carrying a grudge from centuries ago?
I've got to disagree with you there.
I've been here 7 years and only twice have I had anyone slag me off and mean it. The first time was someone who was that pished that they were being carried by four people at the time and he was ranting at everybody...
The second was yesterday and came from an obnoxious arse who wasn't happy because he couldn't get his own way. Last resort of someone who's lost an argument....[lol] Quite funny to watch, really.
Overall, the folk up here are fine, I genuinely like them. There's only one or two exceptions to the rule - but they're living in the Dark Ages anyway and should be ignored.
As for your kid getting some stick. That's what kids do. New kid at school: look for something 'different' about them and home in. If he had white hair, a limp, a lisp, was Asian or black or a posh accent - you'd get it just the same in the playground.
FEB? I get called that all the time by my mates.
Mind you, there's a definition of an FEB that I agree with 100% and, using that criteria, have even called someone an FEB myself.......
tartanyorkie
04-Nov-09, 23:11
Ha, you can disagree me all you want but I know what I have experienced after been here 7 years!
Racism will never go away, at best you may succeed in driving it underground but it wil never go away, prodestant, catholic, black, white, arab, jew as long as you have hate you will have racism, racism exists in many forms, I believe it goes further than just colour of a person's skin, I think it has a lot to do with ideals and fundamentals. People will always be and feel threatened by differences and change, forcing someone to accept another by law get's peoples backs up and stirs up the racist mob, adding fuel to the fire and before you know it boom, you have 2 MEP'S under the banner of the BNP in europe. When you call someone a black illegitamate person or a paki illegitamate person in anger then yes to me thats racist. If on the other hand you know the person well and you call him your wee paki buddy and no offence is taken as this would be personal between the two of you, then this to me is not racism, I feel it's all down to context. I have some black mates and we have a right old slagging sessions some of which was to be presented on here would result in the mods needing counciling, and we have had this banter for going on 30 years, and we never ever thought to take insult or offence by any of it. Me personally i'm not racist, I can hate everybody equally.
In England, when you meet Scottish people you do not bat an eyelid but up here they really hate us.
I beg to differ, I as a Scot who served in the Merchant Navy and my two sons who served in the RN were regularly referred to as FRISP's by our fellow English crewmen, there is racisms on your side of the border also, sadly.
Aaldtimer
05-Nov-09, 03:42
Ha, you can disagree me all you want but I know what I have experienced after been here 7 years!
Maybe it's your own attitude that needs examining?:confused
northener
05-Nov-09, 10:08
I beg to differ, I as a Scot who served in the Merchant Navy and my two sons who served in the RN were regularly referred to as FRISP's by our fellow English crewmen, there is racisms on your side of the border also, sadly.
Guilty as charged M'Lud.:Razz
Yup, laughed my head off when they launched a packet of crisps called 'Frisps'!:Razz
Pardon my ignorance but what does frisp mean? Never heard of it before.:confused
northener
05-Nov-09, 10:51
Pardon my ignorance but what does frisp mean? Never heard of it before.:confused
Part of the acronym is 'Repulsive Ignorant Scottish Pig'....much bandied about in the RN (as confirmed by Golach) and generally met with 'FEB'.:Razz
Mainly in banter - sometimes in anger.....
Eeeh, happy days onboard HMS Glasgow.....
kk northerner, I guessed it wasn't complimentary.[smirk]
My son was called a FEB at school! What do you do? I was furious, especially as I have been discriminated against when looking for work. I did not realise how bad it was up here. In England, when you meet Scottish people you do not bat an eyelid but up here they really hate us. I laughed at my mother for hating Germans when the ones who caused the war are dead but what do you do with people who are carrying a grudge from centuries ago?
forgive my ignorance but what is a FEB? And by the way, I don't know you so I don't hate you - think you've just been unlucky.
Sometimes i wonder where some of the people who post here about english /scottish "hatred" actually live. At no time have i ever come across anyone who made me feel like they hated me because i was english. I was called names on one occasion - and beleive me i had a job lots of people would like to dislike - and the person concerned was drunk and beligerent and it wouldnt have mattered if i was as scottish as he was he would have called me some sort of name.
At the risk of upsetting those people who suggest that they are disliked because they are english I would suggest they are disliked because they are hard to like. And it wouldnt matter where they were from their own behaviour or characteristics means that it is harder to like them than some other people. That isnt to say they are horrible. I have friends who i was unsure about on first meeting but who are better for knowing - if you arent turned off them in the first place. Maybe its easier to beleive that your behaviour has nothing to do with why people dont like you its simply your nationality.....
As for me? Well im an english girl married to a scottish man and I am chair person of one of scotlands premier medieval re enactment groups which specialises in the scottish wars of independance and contains, polish people, english people, lebanese, south african, american to name but a few. We tend to think that Robert the Bruce, William Wallace and Andrew de Moray would be delighted in way we try to be a tolerant and inclusive society these days with little need for the sword or the axe.
northener
05-Nov-09, 22:40
Sometimes i wonder where some of the people who post here about english /scottish "hatred" actually live. At no time have i ever come across anyone who made me feel like they hated me because i was english. I was called names on one occasion - and beleive me i had a job lots of people would like to dislike - and the person concerned was drunk and beligerent and it wouldnt have mattered if i was as scottish as he was he would have called me some sort of name.
At the risk of upsetting those people who suggest that they are disliked because they are english I would suggest they are disliked because they are hard to like. And it wouldnt matter where they were from their own behaviour or characteristics means that it is harder to like them than some other people. That isnt to say they are horrible. I have friends who i was unsure about on first meeting but who are better for knowing - if you arent turned off them in the first place. Maybe its easier to beleive that your behaviour has nothing to do with why people dont like you its simply your nationality.....
As for me? Well im an english girl married to a scottish man and I am chair person of one of scotlands premier medieval re enactment groups which specialises in the scottish wars of independance and contains, polish people, english people, lebanese, south african, american to name but a few. We tend to think that Robert the Bruce, William Wallace and Andrew de Moray would be delighted in way we try to be a tolerant and inclusive society these days with little need for the sword or the axe.
Just avbout sums it up, really. There'll always be the odd numpty out for trouble, but the are a very small minority. I've even got some of my mates up here drinking 'English pish' as they like to call proper beer.:Razz
Squidge - Wot's the society you're with? (I'm ex-SK)
Boozeburglar
06-Nov-09, 02:22
There'll always be the odd numpty out for trouble
If you were 'black' then multiply that by a major factor.
There is the difference, in a nutshell.
If you were 'black' then multiply that by a major factor.
There is the difference, in a nutshell.
Depends on which town or city you live in.
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