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crayola
25-Oct-09, 13:48
in a recent post....

Have to say the org is becoming pretty boring in the General Section anyway, because what we don't tend to get are threads with people politely disagreeing with other's opinions but threads chastising people for holding those opinions.

The org General Section is slowly becoming a whinefest of opinions about other posters with little to recommend it to those interested in Caithness and life in Caithness.I agree. It's been going down the tubes ever so slowly since the day I joined. :D

So how do we fix it?

Should we have stricter rules about the kind of replies that are allowed? This wouldn't be necessary if poor quality replies were simply ignored but this doesn't happen here as it does on some other forums.
Good posters leave instead of ignoring the dross and posting good stuff themselves. This is in my opinion the Org's major weakness.

Some forums have a separate section for serious topics or debates and this sort of works, but the danger is that it would destroy the inclusive nature of the Org.

riggerboy
25-Oct-09, 13:58
[QUOTE=crayola;611885]in a recent post....
I agree. It's been going down the tubes ever so slowly since the day I joined. :D

you could leave and see if it has the reverse effect of the above lol

ShelleyCowie
25-Oct-09, 14:06
I dont know whats going on with this forum right now. :confused

I think that there have been some interesting threads but people make a joke of serious matters. For example the thread "making a mountain out of a mole hill"

Its a forum, i would say 90% of the people on here dont know me, yet they are very offensive towards me. Dont care anymore though.

The org has lost good posters and its quite sad. I miss Torvaig :(

crayola
25-Oct-09, 14:13
There are still some excellent posters here but only a few post regularly. A lot have almost given up and this is the root cause of many of the problems in my opinion.

telfordstar
25-Oct-09, 14:20
There are still some excellent posters here but only a few post regularly. A lot have almost given up and this is the root cause of many of the problems in my opinion.


I totally agree with you. I wouldnt say i was an excellent poster but really only post now and again where the tread takes my interest and sometimes will go a week or tw0 just reading whats being wrote.

There is a good few on here who tend to read to much into things and get all defensive and that ends up in the slanging match that seems to be happening alot. Im not saying all my posts are perfect but it is a forum and im just saying my own opinion whether folk like it or not.

Hope it does improve a bit the tellys depressing enough dont let the org go the same way!!!!!!!

northener
25-Oct-09, 14:22
Tackle the 'offended' brigade head on.

There's more than a couple on here who are quick to criticise and pass their own ill-informed jugement at the drop of a hat, only to retreat in a cloud of self-pity when someone takes them apart. If anything this place isn't robust enough in my view. If you can't hack verbal fisticuffs - don't get involved.

The worst ones are those who pounce upon any new poster who dares to put something up that's open to polarising views. Shades of playground bullies picking on 'the new kid' because they think they can get away with it?

More modding isn't the answer, you'll just stifle this place until it becomes nothing more than a sycophantic back-slappers club.

I've nothing against people discussing what their favourite cushion is, or what the latest bargains are in Matalan. But I cannot see why those who wish to lay into each other in a reasonably intelligent manner (without getting too personal:Razz) should have to tone it down to suit those who don't want to get involved.

We're a broad church at the moment - and that's how it should be.

[edit]: and yes, we've lost a lot of bloody good posters on here.

crayola
25-Oct-09, 14:30
I think you're right Northener. The 'offended' are usually missing the point anyway.

I still think most of the responsibility lies with the good posters that aren't posting.

northener
25-Oct-09, 14:55
I think you're right Northener. The 'offended' are usually missing the point anyway.

I still think most of the responsibility lies with the good posters that aren't posting.

That's a very good point.

However, like some of the 'good posters' we were talking about, I get to the point when I really can't be arsed to listen to - or challenge - some of the easily bruised ego trippers on here. And the easiest way to avoid them is, unfortunately, don't post on the site.

BTW, you have a PM;)

teddybear1873
25-Oct-09, 15:34
When I first joined the Org wayyyy back in 2001 or whatever year it was (Lost my original username) it was certainly entertaining, good topics, very little snide remarks, the chatroom was good crack.

It seems to have lost it spark somewhat. I mainly just pop on at the weekends to see what's going on, don't realy bother during the week unless I have a spare 30 mins or so.

It's a shame realy, because the Org is a great and unique site. I just hope that some of the orgers don't spoil it for the others.

Oddquine
25-Oct-09, 15:43
I think you're right Northener. The 'offended' are usually missing the point anyway.

I still think most of the responsibility lies with the good posters that aren't posting.

Not that I'm claiming to be a good poster..but I have found that many of my last well spaced posts have been in irritated response to those threads which end up attacking the poster and not the post.

I don't know about anyone else.......but I am finding that, on the odd occasion nowadays when I see a post title which implies it contains a serious point worth discussion.........I read as far as the first stupid, "funny", off topic oneliner, or the first character assassination, and generally sigh and go elsewhere because I can anticipate the tone of the rest of the thread.

northener
25-Oct-09, 15:54
Not that I'm claiming to be a good poster..but I have found that many of my last well spaced posts have been in irritated response to those threads which end up attacking the poster and not the post.

I don't know about anyone else.......but I am finding that, on the odd occasion nowadays when I see a post title which implies it contains a serious point worth discussion.........I read as far as the first stupid, "funny", off topic oneliner, or the first character assassination, and generally sigh and go elsewhere because I can anticipate the tone of the rest of the thread.

Personally, I've no problem with a wisecrack or a witty response to an otherwise 'serious' subject - providing it doesn't hijack the thread completely.

Actually, reading what you've just put, it's made me realise just how less tolerant I am on here than I was, say, 12 months ago. I tend to tolerate fools less than I used to and cannot be bothered to be polite a lot of the time now.

EDDIE
25-Oct-09, 16:00
Tackle the 'offended' brigade head on.

There's more than a couple on here who are quick to criticise and pass their own ill-informed jugement at the drop of a hat, only to retreat in a cloud of self-pity when someone takes them apart. If anything this place isn't robust enough in my view. If you can't hack verbal fisticuffs - don't get involved.

The worst ones are those who pounce upon any new poster who dares to put something up that's open to polarising views. Shades of playground bullies picking on 'the new kid' because they think they can get away with it?

More modding isn't the answer, you'll just stifle this place until it becomes nothing more than a sycophantic back-slappers club.

I've nothing against people discussing what their favourite cushion is, or what the latest bargains are in Matalan. But I cannot see why those who wish to lay into each other in a reasonably intelligent manner (without getting too personal:Razz) should have to tone it down to suit those who don't want to get involved.

We're a broad church at the moment - and that's how it should be.

[edit]: and yes, we've lost a lot of bloody good posters on here.

Dare i say but who would you say is the top 10 offenders on here and why maybey the offenders dont relise that they are offenders and maybey this need to be talked about openly

ShelleyCowie
25-Oct-09, 16:01
Not that I'm claiming to be a good poster..but I have found that many of my last well spaced posts have been in irritated response to those threads which end up attacking the poster and not the post.

I don't know about anyone else.......but I am finding that, on the odd occasion nowadays when I see a post title which implies it contains a serious point worth discussion.........I read as far as the first stupid, "funny", off topic oneliner, or the first character assassination, and generally sigh and go elsewhere because I can anticipate the tone of the rest of the thread.

Oddquine i think you are a good poster, your posts are not biased and i would say you are open to other peoples opinions.

golach
25-Oct-09, 16:11
So how do we fix it?

Should we have stricter rules about the kind of replies that are allowed? This wouldn't be necessary if poor quality replies were simply ignored but this doesn't happen here as it does on some other forums.
Good posters leave instead of ignoring the dross and posting good stuff themselves. This is in my opinion the Org's major weakness.

What would you suggest Crayola? Another poll perhaps [lol]

Vistravi
25-Oct-09, 16:35
I think that if everyone had a thick skin and didn't take anything to heart then it doesn't matter if someone gets over sensitive about something and starts a battle thread. ;)

Venture
25-Oct-09, 17:08
We have certainly lost a lot of good orgers of late and new members seem to be filling their places by the double. The forum is not the same as it used to be, there are very few good debates. Sometimes I can't believe the rubbish that some people feel they need to start a thread about.

A lot of trouble is caused on here by those amongst us whose sole purpose in being an orger is to pop up and post to criticise or ridicule others. These people never seem to start a thread and have a following of regular "yes I agree with you" men who half the time don't even know what they are agreeing with but like to be part of what they see as the in crowd on the org.

We are all of different levels of intelligence on here and sometimes what one person sees as humour another sees as offence. Sometimes even I can't understand the dry humour from some of our more regular posters but I don't let it bother me and just move on to something else.

There will always be differences in opinions too and I think that gives the board variety and is more interesting. It also helps you to learn more about a person without knowing them personally if you know what I mean. Perhaps it would be a good idea if we could "wipe the board" as they say and start again. Why not let past differences be left in the past and send out an open invitation to all those who no longer post to come back in to the fold. Surely it's worth starting an open invitation thread to try at least.;)

Invisible
25-Oct-09, 17:42
i think positive threads are the solution.

cuddlepop
25-Oct-09, 17:48
Live and let live.

The org over the years has had these "dull or difficult" moments they'll pass they alwas do.:D

northener
25-Oct-09, 18:00
Dare i say but who would you say is the top 10 offenders on here and why maybey the offenders dont relise that they are offenders and maybey this need to be talked about openly

Nope, sorry mate. All that will happen is that you'll end up with a hundred different lists...and the fallout would be around for months. Everyone has different Ideas about what is acceptable/or not and who is a 'good poster'/or not.

It would be an interesting experiment, though.....

Invisible
25-Oct-09, 18:06
Am not an avid follower of any other forums, but I would imagine that Caithness.org isn't alone with "bullies" - how do other forums go about tackling it.

northener
25-Oct-09, 18:39
Am not an avid follower of any other forums, but I would imagine that Caithness.org isn't alone with "bullies" - how do other forums go about tackling it.

I'm only on one other Forum and that's a motorbike one.

The threads on there are very robust - and lead to some hair raisng posts that would be modded out in five seconds flat on here. What tends to happen is that anyone who is seriously out of line tends to get beaten down by their peers.
But, as I said, they would be modded off here before it ever went that far - and rightly so IMO. This is a forum open to all tastes and ages....which automatically makes it a difficult place to find a balance that suits everybody.

teddybear1873
25-Oct-09, 18:41
Am not an avid follower of any other forums, but I would imagine that Caithness.org isn't alone with "bullies" - how do other forums go about tackling it.

There called Moderators. They get suspended or banned.

redeyedtreefrog
25-Oct-09, 18:52
More rules would just be a disaster. If anything we need less.

Thumper
25-Oct-09, 18:59
The only way to improve the forum is for the forum users to improve their manners,it is like a school playground on here sometimes :roll: we all have different opinions,the trick is to allow others to have theirs whether you agree with it or not x

Katy
25-Oct-09, 19:01
The only way to improve the forum is for the forum users to improve their manners,it is like a school playground on here sometimes :roll: we all have different opinions,the trick is to allow others to have theirs whether you agree with it or not x

Agree totally well said Thumper xx

Phill
25-Oct-09, 19:26
I was going to reply, then I wasn't and then I wrote a long rambling diatribe, then I binned it and now this:

I am probably very guilty of being an ijeet and posting silly nonsense on threads, but hey, it's just my feeble attempt to inject a little humour into proceedings.

There are a few people on here that are frankly a bit precious and forget that this is an open forum on the tinterweb where anyone can, and do, come along and post whatever they want. They can hide behind random usernames, maybe two or three, and stir up the melting pot. Trolls are about, learn to live with it.

Heavy moderation stops the forum being a forum, it just becomes a channel for the chosen few.

It appears to me that some people forget that for a "forum" for "debate" to work, it requires people with differing opinions.

My suggestion is for the mod's to consider an adult / over 18 section. Less rules, more open topics, self regulated threads and the faint of heart be warned.
I've seen a similar thing on a different forum, entry to this section can be verified via Paypal type setup, members donate say minimum £1 to the Org and it then verifies the age, name etc. The trolls are thinned out, the Org's supported and we can have a good, robust debate with less fear of an infarction!

Just my tuppence........

Rheghead
25-Oct-09, 20:22
Make it a infractionable offence to quote another's post would be an improvement towards harmony.

Rheghead
25-Oct-09, 20:25
The only way to improve the forum is for the forum users to improve their manners,it is like a school playground on here sometimes :roll: we all have different opinions,the trick is to allow others to have theirs whether you agree with it or not x

Well said, totally agree there. People seem to take a different opinion soooo personal like an insult or summat.

upolian
25-Oct-09, 21:00
people take things to serious

and people dont like to be told any different

FACT

joxville
25-Oct-09, 21:02
I aree with Phill @ post #26.

upolian
25-Oct-09, 21:06
i was called a self indulgent idiot not so long ago for no reason....should i take this serious?

changilass
25-Oct-09, 21:15
Only take it seriously if its true - if the cap don't fit then don't wear it lol


Totally agree with Rheggers a few posts above.

Alice in Blunderland
25-Oct-09, 21:21
mmm bring back Percy. We got some darn good debates going when he was posting on this forum. Love him or hate him he could fairly get the threads going. :lol:


In all honesty playground antics is a big problem on the boards just now. Posters just get fed up and move on or sit back and lurk a while.

horseman
25-Oct-09, 21:30
pHILLS POST -26
nO WAY-yOU WANT SUMMAT LIKE THAT---gO SUMWHERE ELSE.

Mystical Potato Head
25-Oct-09, 21:37
To simply respect the opinions of others would go a long way to improve things as Thumper has stated and also there are a few who have this "all about me " attitude where everything they say seems to be set in stone and hell mend anyone who disagrees.

Its impossible to have a meaninful debate on here anymore.
Dont blame the "good posters" who dont seem to post anymore.
Dont blame the "offended" and accuse them of "usually missing the point anyway"
because thats just arrogantly dismissing their opinions which is exactly where the problem lies.

NickInTheNorth
25-Oct-09, 21:40
Be "grown up" grow a thick skin

Don't take offence - even when it is intended, if folks react then the "bully" wins and attacks even more.

It's not real life, get over it!

Get rid of some of the petty rules, smileys rule :D

If you really don't like a particular poster add them to your "ignore list"

Make the mods visible, nothing worse than "secret policemen" despised the world over in all decent societies, if mods are unknown then they are "secret policemen"

Accept that people have different likes and dislikes, if you don't like a thread that someone has started don't post on it to complain, just pass it by.

Just a few thoughts...

Mystical Potato Head
25-Oct-09, 21:45
pHILLS POST -26
nO WAY-yOU WANT SUMMAT LIKE THAT---gO SUMWHERE ELSE.

Why not try and suggest something positive yourself instead of dismissing someone elses suggestion.
At least he made the effort to come up with his own idea which is after all what this thread is about.Typing nO WAY-yOU WANT SUMMAT LIKE THAT---gO SUMWHERE ELSE
isnt helping one little bit.

teddybear1873
25-Oct-09, 21:45
Be "grown up" grow a thick skin

Don't take offence - even when it is intended, if folks react then the "bully" wins and attacks even more.

It's not real life, get over it!

Get rid of some of the petty rules, smileys rule :D

If you really don't like a particular poster add them to your "ignore list"

Make the mods visible, nothing worse than "secret policemen" despised the world over in all decent societies, if mods are unknown then they are "secret policemen"

Accept that people have different likes and dislikes, if you don't like a thread that someone has started don't post on it to complain, just pass it by.

Just a few thoughts...

Agree on all the above. Too many people on here rise to the ocassion and makes things worse. The ignore solution is the best of all.

NickInTheNorth
25-Oct-09, 21:47
Why not try and suggest something positive yourself instead of dismissing someone elses suggestion.
At least he made the effort to come up with his own idea which is after all what this thread is about.Typing nO WAY-yOU WANT SUMMAT LIKE THAT---gO SUMWHERE ELSE
isnt helping one little bit.
And if you don't like that post ignore it!

M R
25-Oct-09, 21:54
We need another General Thread for adults. Labeled : Over 18's.... Go there at your own risk :).... That way, anything posted is fair game. Would take alot of presure off the original General Thread and allow those who do like a joke, and can take it !, an area to to have a laugh (within reason obviously, moderator still required.) most of the forums i use, mainly car based, all have an 18+ thread, where you can talk about the reall world.

I think it would help, shoot me down, go on, i dare ya. :cool:

joxville
25-Oct-09, 21:54
Make it a infractionable offence to quote another's post would be an improvement towards harmony.

I don't agree with this.


Make the mods visible, nothing worse than "secret policemen" despised the world over in all decent societies, if mods are unknown then they are "secret policemen"

I agree with this.

Mystical Potato Head
25-Oct-09, 21:55
Yes Nick, i will ignore every post on here with great pleasure after this but the whole idea is to get constructive,not destructive criticism as to why this section of the Org is going downhill.

Oddquine
25-Oct-09, 22:07
Personally, I've no problem with a wisecrack or a witty response to an otherwise 'serious' subject - providing it doesn't hijack the thread completely.

Actually, reading what you've just put, it's made me realise just how less tolerant I am on here than I was, say, 12 months ago. I tend to tolerate fools less than I used to and cannot be bothered to be polite a lot of the time now.

I have no problem with a wisecrack or a witty response to an otherwise 'serious' subject but unhappily, over the time I have been a member, they have resulted in more and more hijacking as people respond to the witty response and not the thread ethos.

I find that I, too am less tolerant..but I'm inclined to the thought that, over the piece there are more and more posts on the org to be less tolerant about.

teddybear1873
25-Oct-09, 22:07
We need another General Thread for adults. Labeled : Over 18's.... Go there at your own risk :).... That way, anything posted is fair game. Would take alot of presure off the original General Thread and allow those who do like a joke, and can take it !, an area to to have a laugh (within reason obviously, moderator still required.) most of the forums i use, mainly car based, all have an 18+ thread, where you can talk about the reall world.

I think it would help, shoot me down, go on, i dare ya. :cool:

Then we will have the youngsters giving there wrong date of birth. That won't work.

butterfly
25-Oct-09, 22:10
Dont think the mods should be visable to members.They would be open to verbal or heaven forbid physical abuse then because some member is unhappy at infraction/suspension/ban.

Thumper
25-Oct-09, 22:11
Having the mods visible wont help,all that will do it make them even more of a "target",if people are sending nasty pms to people just because they dont agree with their opinion can you imagine what kind of pms they would send to a mod?:eek: at the end of the day we ALL agreed to the rules of the forum when we joined up and if you dont like those rules then maybe its time to find another forum instead of destroying this one x

Whitewater
25-Oct-09, 22:12
I enjoy the forum, there is room for all on here no matter their interest. I browse a lot myself and if something interests me I will make a post/reply, I have had some good debates on here and also loads of fun. Sometimes I guess I offend people, but it is usually in self defence, if they insult me I can give as good as I get, but generally as a last resort. I have found a lot of good comments from many of the new 'orgers', have perhaps not joined in as the particular subject may not have been of any interest to me. But as I said, there is room for all, and all levels of education, eveybody is entitled to their opinion whether we agree with it of not. It is not a good idea to attack the person, but by all means feel free to attack the subject and give your own personal slant on the matter.

This forum is great and will remain that way as long as we tolerate others and their opinions, no matter how odd or diverse they may appear.

Oddquine
25-Oct-09, 22:17
Be "grown up" grow a thick skin

Don't take offence - even when it is intended, if folks react then the "bully" wins and attacks even more.

It's not real life, get over it!

Get rid of some of the petty rules, smileys rule :D

If you really don't like a particular poster add them to your "ignore list"

Make the mods visible, nothing worse than "secret policemen" despised the world over in all decent societies, if mods are unknown then they are "secret policemen"

Accept that people have different likes and dislikes, if you don't like a thread that someone has started don't post on it to complain, just pass it by.

Just a few thoughts...

Some folk just have a naturally thin skin for reasons others are not privileged to know.........might be an idea if one learned to review a post, and think about the effect reading it might have on someone who is not privy to what you really meant by it but has to take it at face value.

For some people, it is as real life as they have....just because it is not the best you have, does not mean it is not all some others have.

I'd welcome the removal on the length of post and number of smilies limit.......if only, in the case of smilies, because the use of them can help to soften what may otherwise be perceived as abuse.

I use the ignore option on another forum, a political one.....but that tends to be for those who post interminably saying nothing at all, increasing their output but not the information they impart.

On this forum, using that criteria, care to hazard a guess as to my ignore user levels?

Problem with this is that Mods have been visible in the past.....and then there were rants because members perceived that the Mods were allowed to get away with what other posters did not because they were Mods posting as users. So strikes me they are damned whatever they do.

The bit of your post I have bolded is, imo, the most important part........because there are too many on here who post solely for the sake of posting......not because they have anything to say but just because they can say something however inappropriate. Some people appear unable to pass a thread by........even if they have nothing to add to it.

northener
25-Oct-09, 22:18
Make it a infractionable offence to quote another's post would be an improvement towards harmony.

I agree!

Hang on a minute........oh, ......:confused:

shazzap
25-Oct-09, 22:21
Tackle the 'offended' brigade head on.

There's more than a couple on here who are quick to criticise and pass their own ill-informed jugement at the drop of a hat, only to retreat in a cloud of self-pity when someone takes them apart. If anything this place isn't robust enough in my view. If you can't hack verbal fisticuffs - don't get involved.

The worst ones are those who pounce upon any new poster who dares to put something up that's open to polarising views. Shades of playground bullies picking on 'the new kid' because they think they can get away with it?

More modding isn't the answer, you'll just stifle this place until it becomes nothing more than a sycophantic back-slappers club.

I've nothing against people discussing what their favourite cushion is, or what the latest bargains are in Matalan. But I cannot see why those who wish to lay into each other in a reasonably intelligent manner (without getting too personal:Razz) should have to tone it down to suit those who don't want to get involved.

We're a broad church at the moment - and that's how it should be.

[edit]: and yes, we've lost a lot of bloody good posters on here.

Totally agree.

changilass
25-Oct-09, 22:25
Mods were visible at one point, but following verbal abuse and threatening behaviour spilling into the real world they had to become invisible.

Some folks don't know where to draw the line.

Oddquine
25-Oct-09, 22:36
I have to say I don't quite understand why there cannot be a discussion sub-forum within the General Section which will allow those who are easily irritated the option of avoidance..........because at the moment, most times, one has to start reading a thread to know what it is about.......and once in there itchy keyboard fingers tend to take over.

At least if you prefer pink and fluffy to contentious and argumentative, separate sections would at least let you know what not to bother reading.

Phill
25-Oct-09, 22:40
Dont think the mods should be visable to members.They would be open to verbal or heaven forbid physical abuse then because some member is unhappy at infraction/suspension/ban.

I think more visible mods would help, on a couple of other forums I attend they are visible and wield the stick now and again.
This gets the thread back on track when it gets silly without the need to remove it.

I have thrown my toys out of the pram on here in the past because of the anonymous way the mods operated. That and their random, inconsistent and silent approach. I understand it isn't an easy job but they can help themselves to help the forum.

I doubt they would suffer any abuse other than a few PM's/email and if they can't handle that then they shouldn't be mods.

This is a wide, all encompassing forum and it will never please everyone at any time. We need to be tolerant of each others opinions but I do think a Bar Room of sorts may help us ijeets carry on like a bunch o' nursery kids without upsetting everyone!

;)
And more smilies, definitely more smilies:cool:

unicorn
25-Oct-09, 22:51
Mods are not visible for good reason as Changi has already pointed out.
The mods do a difficult and thankless job here in my opinion and don't get enough credit for the hard work they put in and those hours are voluntary. Don't forget the mods are human too.
I remember times where Saturday and Sunday night here were a riot, everyone chilled and just blethering nonsense. This sadly led to the take it to the chatroom chant and I think that also spoiled the forum as people didn't get quite as friendly.
I have made a lot of good friends on the org and many who I miss seeing posting regularly.
There used to be serious threads and threads where you just bantered but I do think that line has been blurred and people posting a genuine concern etc get wise cracks and I am not so sure that they want the tone of their post lightened, I have had a few pns from people who actually feel ridiculed by this behaviour and nobody should feel ridiculed by asking about something they genuinely need advice on.
Anyway thats my tuppenceworth and a bit more, [lol]

butterfly
25-Oct-09, 22:52
I think more visible mods would help, on a couple of other forums I attend they are visible and wield the stick now and again.
This gets the thread back on track when it gets silly without the need to remove it.

I have thrown my toys out of the pram on here in the past because of the anonymous way the mods operated. That and their random, inconsistent and silent approach. I understand it isn't an easy job but they can help themselves to help the forum.

I doubt they would suffer any abuse other than a few PM's/email and if they can't handle that then they shouldn't be mods.

This is a wide, all encompassing forum and it will never please everyone at any time. We need to be tolerant of each others opinions but I do think a Bar Room of sorts may help us ijeets carry on like a bunch o' nursery kids without upsetting everyone!

;)
And more smilies, definitely more smilies:cool:


But this is a small town and some members do and have tooken things too far.As Changilass say's,some folks dont know where to draw the line.....At the end of the day the rules are there for a reason and when we sign up we must abide by them.

Phill
25-Oct-09, 23:28
At the end of the day the rules are there for a reason and when we sign up we must abide by them.


Accepted. But doesn't this make this whole thread a bit pointless?
How can we change it if were not even going to look at the rules?

Surely change and adaptation is a key to moving forwards.

butterfly
25-Oct-09, 23:35
Why is it when folk step over the line,the rule's are brought into question.We could talk about the rules forever and a day but we cant change a thing,cause we dont own the website.............

Rheghead
25-Oct-09, 23:37
More modding so long as I am God!!;)

Seriously though, I like a good discussion, I'm often saddened by the personal attacks though. Never returned such unless provoked.:eek:

unicorn
25-Oct-09, 23:38
The forum users voted to put many of these rules in place a few years ago. There was a selected panel to review the rules so been done already.

joxville
26-Oct-09, 00:06
Dont think the mods should be visable to members.They would be open to verbal or heaven forbid physical abuse then because some member is unhappy at infraction/suspension/ban.

So would you think it okay, for instance, a Mod to post under several names and still moderate freely? That they could laugh along openly on the forum with us and have all the Mods laugh at us behind our backs?

zeppellin
26-Oct-09, 00:06
People should be free to say what they please as long as it's not tasteless or lurid.
Freedom of speech applies here as well as in other areas of society. Offended orgers have the right of reply as well as the right not to. People should stop being so 'precious' and realise we all can't feel the same about every topic, if your big enough to express your opinion, you should be big enough to take any flak that comes your way from other orgers who disagree. I would be embarassed to get involved in a debate and when the going got tough, start stamping my feet and bleating about it to the mods.
Agreed, I have had my fare share of trouble on here and been on the 'naughty step' for it, but I can honestly say that IMO, I only stepped over the mark once and got 10 infraction points for it. Would you believe I'm not supposed to discuss it as it could lead to more. I say it as I see it and apologise to no one for it (unless I go over the score that is.) So Redeyedtreefrog and Pantsman....sorry.
The rest of the precious brigade, if you want 'fluffy bunny belly rubs' try Mothercare.

Phill
26-Oct-09, 00:11
Freedom of speech applies here as well as in other areas of society.

Apparently not from my experience!

Fluffy bunny belly rubs all round me thinks, I'm off to stick pins in me eyes.

Rheghead
26-Oct-09, 00:12
People should be free to say what they please as long as it's not tasteless or lurid.
Freedom of speech applies here as well as in other areas of society. Offended orgers have the right of reply as well as the right not to. People should stop being so 'precious' and realise we all can't feel the same about every topic, if your big enough to express your opinion, you should be big enough to take any flak that comes your way from other orgers who disagree. I would be embarassed to get involved in a debate and when the going got tough, start stamping my feet and bleating about it to the mods.
Agreed, I have had my fare share of trouble on here and been on the 'naughty step' for it, but I can honestly say that IMO, I only stepped over the mark once and got 10 infraction points for it. Would you believe I'm not supposed to discuss it as it could lead to more. I say it as I see it and apologise to no one for it (unless I go over the score that is.) So Redeyedtreefrog and Pantsman....sorry.
The rest of the precious brigade, if you want 'fluffy bunny belly rubs' try Mothercare.

Well said, pity the rep system prevented me from giving you some points.;)

sweetpea
26-Oct-09, 00:18
This forum is quite tame and easy to offend people. I keep reminding myself that you get all sorts on forums.

zeppellin
26-Oct-09, 00:23
Well said, pity the rep system prevented me from giving you some points.;)
I'd have taken them and would not have felt all precious about it. You have your opinions and I respect that, Idon't have to agree with you though and I don't expect you to agree with mine, although you will from time to time as I will with yours. That's my schmaltzy bit for tonight and there wont be much more......it's uncomfortable, blllerrrrrrr!!!:confused

Oddquine
26-Oct-09, 00:41
People should be free to say what they please as long as it's not tasteless or lurid.

Or illegal.




Freedom of speech applies here as well as in other areas of society. Offended orgers have the right of reply as well as the right not to. People should stop being so 'precious' and realise we all can't feel the same about every topic, if your big enough to express your opinion, you should be big enough to take any flak that comes your way from other orgers who disagree.

There is a difference between disagreement over a stance genuinely held and abusing people because of the posts they have made or the opinions they hold. I don't feel it is "precious", for example, not to want to be called a liar by people who haven't a clue if you are lying or not, but just want to see themselves posting because they can.

It should not be beyond the capabilities of the meanest intelligence to differentiate between a poster and the post made and limit any response to criticism of the post.......not a judgement on the character of the poster.




I would be embarassed to get involved in a debate and when the going got tough, start stamping my feet and bleating about it to the mods.
Agreed, I have had my fare share of trouble on here and been on the 'naughty step' for it, but I can honestly say that IMO, I only stepped over the mark once and got 10 infraction points for it. Would you believe I'm not supposed to discuss it as it could lead to more. I say it as I see it and apologise to no one for it (unless I go over the score that is.) So Redeyedtreefrog and Pantsman....sorry.
The rest of the precious brigade, if you want 'fluffy bunny belly rubs' try Mothercare.

I'm pleased for you that you have a thick skin and let nothing bother you......but obviously everyone does not, as evidenced by your sojourn on the naughty step.

Freedom of speech is a right which comes with the responsibility not to abuse it...........and, imo, attacking posters and not posts is indulging in a self-administered "fluffy bunny ego rub".

joxville
26-Oct-09, 00:51
So who is to blame for the General forum going downhill? It can't be me because I'm the best poster on the Org.

zeppellin
26-Oct-09, 00:55
So who is to blame for the General forum going downhill? It can't be me because I'm the best poster on the Org.
Or me, I'm second best, but not for much longer!!!

Oddquine
26-Oct-09, 00:55
I'll take the blame if everyone else will try harder to behave!

zeppellin
26-Oct-09, 00:59
I'll take the blame if everyone else will try harder to behave!
Don't be a big safty, the blames all yours. Nobody else needs to try harder to behave. We'll all just blame you and everything will be just fine.:Razz

oldmarine
26-Oct-09, 06:37
Sometimes a little joking is acceptable, but when it is directed personally I object to some of them. About 2 or 3 years ago a poster accused me of killing innoscent women & children when the US of A dropped the two A-bombs to end WW2. I replied that I was not the one who ordered dropping those bombs, but that after our troops saw the defenses the Japanese had set for their defense I was happy the war was finished and I did not have to put my life on line any longer. That poster sometimes sounded like an Islamic Muslim. He appeared to be very unpopular with other posters and dropped out of the forum.

Amy-Winehouse
26-Oct-09, 08:15
Well said, pity the rep system prevented me from giving you some points.;)

Dina worry Rheghead, I gave him some good rep for that post , it was well said

butterfly
26-Oct-09, 10:23
So would you think it okay, for instance, a Mod to post under several names and still moderate freely? That they could laugh along openly on the forum with us and have all the Mods laugh at us behind our backs?


Mmmmm touch paranoia there Jox..... Either way i dont really care,at the end of the day if your not happy there is plenty more forums out there.

joxville
26-Oct-09, 10:33
Mmmmm touch paranoia there Jox..... Either way i dont really care,at the end of the day if your not happy there is plenty more forums out there.

I've never been paranoid in my life. [para]

northener
26-Oct-09, 13:09
Sometimes a little joking is acceptable, but when it is directed personally I object to some of them. About 2 or 3 years ago a poster accused me of killing innoscent women & children when the US of A dropped the two A-bombs to end WW2. I replied that I was not the one who ordered dropping those bombs, but that after our troops saw the defenses the Japanese had set for their defense I was happy the war was finished and I did not have to put my life on line any longer. That poster sometimes sounded like an Islamic Muslim. He appeared to be very unpopular with other posters and dropped out of the forum.

Unfortunately, Leatherneck, you'll always get the odd ranter who sees forums as nothing more than a platfiorm to enable them to beat other people over the heid with their beliefs. The incident you quote is a good example of someone who defies rationality and commonsense to get their own warped opinion across.
I can tolerate radical opinion, but the fact that this person decided to blame you as an individual as eventually 'disappeared' is a good indicator of how much respect should be afforded to people like that.

IIRC it was 'Fred', many a hoot I had reading his deranged accusations and total refusal to accept any facts he was confronted with....happy days.:Razz

northener
26-Oct-09, 13:23
I would just like to point out that, to further the cause of universal .Org peace and tranquility, I am resigning my role as an ill-tempered idiot-baiter. I will no longer tell people what I think of them or their worthless opinions. Also, stupidity will be treated forthwith as if it were the norm and tolerated as such, no longer will I demolish it with an acidic comment or a blunt put down.

Those who challenge my omniscience will be afforded courtesy and mildly patronising condesencion as opposed to being smacked between the eyes with a concrete kipper. Those who quail before me in terror must no longer be afraid, I will no longer try to push you into flouncing or lurking in petrified shame.....

To those of you who engage in healthy robust debate, tinged with a bit of humour, I apologise and salute you..no longer will I be able to join your honoured ranks - for the stability of the .Org must come first. I must restrict myself to banality and tedium for the greater good.

Feel the love...for I have spoken........

butterfly
26-Oct-09, 13:34
Your all heart Northerner![lol]

Angela
26-Oct-09, 14:11
Anyone starting a serious, maybe very contentious thread, can and should expect that other people will post in varying shades of agreement and disagreement. Robust debate and all that. The trouble seems to start when folk reply along the lines of 'that's a stupid thing to say' or worse, 'you must be really thick to think that' or 'trust an idiot like you to some up with something like that'. These posters don't usually bother to come up with any real opinion of their own to explain why they disagree -they just seem to enjoy being rude for the sake of it.

You don't have to be 'precious' or 'easily offended' to get not 'offended', but just plain sick fed up with bothering to post when you get that sort of reply too often. Unless you're a masochist, why bother?

Too many witty one-liners posted in threads that were started in the hope of some serious debate can be almost as irritating if they take the thread right off course, especially when any objection to them you might raise within the thread, results in your being told you've obviously had a sense of humour bypass. :( It can sometimes feel the forum equivalent of watching Panorama and suddenly finding you've accidentally tuned in to Mock the Week....

Quite a lot of people who claim to dislike the 'fluffy pink' sort of thread, still pop up to call it banal, mundane, trivial, boring, dull or pointless. Why not just ignore it if it's not your kind of thing?

And if you don't really want to post your real, true, thoughtful opinion on a serious topic, maybe ignore the serious threads.....?

I'd like more smilies too. :D

The Pepsi Challenge
26-Oct-09, 14:23
Could we have a Gloating thread?

ShelleyCowie
26-Oct-09, 15:18
Question "How can we improve the org?"

I have come to the conclusion....we cant! [smirk]

katarina
26-Oct-09, 17:28
Be "grown up" grow a thick skin

Don't take offence - even when it is intended, if folks react then the "bully" wins and attacks even more.

It's not real life, get over it!

Get rid of some of the petty rules, smileys rule :D

If you really don't like a particular poster add them to your "ignore list"

Make the mods visible, nothing worse than "secret policemen" despised the world over in all decent societies, if mods are unknown then they are "secret policemen"

Accept that people have different likes and dislikes, if you don't like a thread that someone has started don't post on it to complain, just pass it by.

Just a few thoughts...

well said! It's like complaining about a tv program. If you don't like it switch over - there are plenty more threads to join. Best to just ignore the posts you find offensive and answer the ones you can relate to. Then the bullies will get fed up and argue among themselves

maverick
26-Oct-09, 18:05
I reckon that the way forward is an adult section, where we can all blow off steam, enter at your own risk, frail of heart stay out. I can understand that the general section has to be heavily policed, just incase children are about and find out how to spell all those nasty swear words that they learn in school every day. what has happened to the forum is it has stagnated. there are far to many posters who feel that their point is right and thats that, where if we can educate peoples and make them understand that debate is a good thing, and that wanting to choke the crap out of some poor individual because they have an opposing view to that of your own, is the way to lose members and get banned, and the moderators need to wind their necks in just a little bit as do the owners of the forum. without members there is no forum and people hit the org because they want to read about debate and see a bit of conflict, it tends to spice up their lives a little bit......

katarina
26-Oct-09, 20:37
well I wouldn't like swearing even on an adult board - there's no need for it. we can surely have a debate or have a bit of fun without doing anything to corrupt the minds of the young, or, which might well be the case now-a-days, allow the young to corrupt us who have led a sheltered life!

Vistravi
26-Oct-09, 21:05
Question "How can we improve the org?"

I have come to the conclusion....we cant! [smirk]

Yes there is....More smilies! :lol:

changilass
26-Oct-09, 21:10
Can anyone explain WHY we need more smilies please - I don't see the attraction myself.

M R
26-Oct-09, 21:40
Can anyone explain WHY we need more smilies please - I don't see the attraction myself.

:eek: whats wrong:confused with smilies:roll:

There a good way of expressing one's self without having to type

Ricco
26-Oct-09, 21:58
There are still some excellent posters here but only a few post regularly. A lot have almost given up and this is the root cause of many of the problems in my opinion.

I don't know if Crayola counts me as one of her excellent posters - passable maybe. The reason I have not been posting much of late is that I have had a major change in career and am in the process of settling into the new job.

However, I shall be trying to drop in as much as I can. :D

Vistravi
26-Oct-09, 21:58
Can anyone explain WHY we need more smilies please - I don't see the attraction myself.

You're only allowed to use three in a post. I'm often having to cut some out to suit the three max rule. They're brilliant in showing how you feel about something without typing as the previous poster said.

Moira
26-Oct-09, 22:28
Anyone starting a serious, maybe very contentious thread, can and should expect that other people will post in varying shades of agreement and disagreement......
-they just seem to enjoy being rude for the sake of it.
You don't have to be 'precious' or 'easily offended' to get not 'offended', but just plain sick fed up with bothering to post..........why bother?
Too many witty one-liners posted in threads that were started in the hope of some serious debate can be almost as irritating if they take the thread right off course......
It can sometimes feel the forum equivalent of watching Panorama and suddenly finding you've accidentally tuned in to Mock the Week....
Quite a lot of people who claim to dislike the 'fluffy pink' sort of thread, still pop up to call it banal, mundane, trivial, boring, dull or pointless. Why not just ignore it if it's not your kind of thing?
And if you don't really want to post your real, true, thoughtful opinion on a serious topic, maybe ignore the serious threads.....?
I'd like more smilies too. :D

You've pretty much summarised it for me Angela apart from the request for more smilies. I'm glad you still read the forums from time to time and felt strongly enough to stick your head above the parapet on this thread. :D

changilass
26-Oct-09, 22:46
I thought the idea of forums and message boards was TO TYPE not to avoid it.

Surely if you wanted to avoid typing you would just speak to someone and they would see your expression anyhow?
(could have saved myself typing the '?' by putting the confused smilie but its easier just to type)

Moira
26-Oct-09, 23:00
well I wouldn't like swearing even on an adult board - there's no need for it. we can surely have a debate or have a bit of fun.....

I don't see the need for swearing either Katarina.

These forums are freely accessible through an open Community Website which young people use. That's exactly as it should be.

I am sure there are plenty of adult sites out there which will suit the purposes of those who do not wish to discuss serious topics The same goes for those who wish to pepper their posts with swear words. I think I heard something about that, once...... :D

Vistravi
26-Oct-09, 23:03
I thought the idea of forums and message boards was TO TYPE not to avoid it.

Surely if you wanted to avoid typing you would just speak to someone and they would see your expression anyhow?
(could have saved myself typing the '?' by putting the confused smilie but its easier just to type)

smilies also help to put how you are saying something such as mockingly or annoyed.

Sapphire2803
27-Oct-09, 14:31
Tackle the 'offended' brigade head on.

There's more than a couple on here who are quick to criticise and pass their own ill-informed jugement at the drop of a hat, only to retreat in a cloud of self-pity when someone takes them apart. If anything this place isn't robust enough in my view. If you can't hack verbal fisticuffs - don't get involved.

The worst ones are those who pounce upon any new poster who dares to put something up that's open to polarising views. Shades of playground bullies picking on 'the new kid' because they think they can get away with it?

More modding isn't the answer, you'll just stifle this place until it becomes nothing more than a sycophantic back-slappers club.

I've nothing against people discussing what their favourite cushion is, or what the latest bargains are in Matalan. But I cannot see why those who wish to lay into each other in a reasonably intelligent manner (without getting too personal:Razz) should have to tone it down to suit those who don't want to get involved.

We're a broad church at the moment - and that's how it should be.

[edit]: and yes, we've lost a lot of bloody good posters on here.

*Slaps Northerner's back in a sycophantic fashion*

*Hides* [para]

The Pepsi Challenge
27-Oct-09, 15:34
Where would we be without smilies?

crayola
07-Nov-09, 02:39
Please accept my apology for such a late reply, I've been dahn sahf.


The only way to improve the forum is for the forum users to improve their manners,it is like a school playground on here sometimes :roll: we all have different opinions,the trick is to allow others to have theirs whether you agree with it or not xThat is so right, manners maketh the orger and some opinions are best not dwelled upon.


Dont blame the "good posters" who dont seem to post anymore.The forum cannot improve unless good posters post so I disagree with you there.


Dont blame the "offended" and accuse them of "usually missing the point anyway" because thats just arrogantly dismissing their opinions which is exactly where the problem lies.That is so right, their offence doesn't merit the attention. Despair led me to break my golden rule for which I apologise unreservedly.

Rheghead
08-Nov-09, 01:56
How about giving the opening posters the option to post a thread in which they can delete other members posts if they deem them to be inappropriate. At the same time let the members know that the op has gone for that option or not? Option for self moderation I suppose. And the mods should be able to remove that option to members for example if they think they are abusing it by deleting posts just because they disagree with the different and valid opinion etc for example. Facebook allow this and it seems to work quite well, I've disagreed with folk on Facebook but I have never deleted their post for example. It might end up with a more harmonious message board where different opinions are valued and moronic one-liners that rub folk up the wrong way are quickly removed?

changilass
08-Nov-09, 02:01
There already is a form of self moderation available to all, its called thinking afore you post lol.

Mrs Bucket
08-Nov-09, 09:17
Surley everyone is entitled to have an opinion we dont have to like it or agree with it but we can simply ignore it

Ricco
08-Nov-09, 10:14
Surley everyone is entitled to have an opinion we dont have to like it or agree with it but we can simply ignore it

Hmm, but there have been times when some people's opinions have been extremely vindictive and hurtful. It was this type of damaging slagging off that made a number of orgers leave (or go back to lurking - 'hi' to all of you). I think that the org is still in a healthy state - sometimes the conversations are not of interest to me and sometimes they are, that's a fact of life. Sometimes I am extremely busy and therefore cannot devote as much time to the org as I would like to; at other times I can sit and spend much more time reading and responding to the posts.

As for swearing and being 'adult'.... what's adult about swearing? Surely adults have learned a great deal more about their language and can express themselves in a more intelligent manner. Personally, I leave the swearing to the teenagers I teach. ;)

_Ju_
08-Nov-09, 10:23
How about giving the opening posters the option to post a thread in which they can delete other members posts if they deem them to be inappropriate. At the same time let the members know that the op has gone for that option or not? Option for self moderation I suppose. And the mods should be able to remove that option to members for example if they think they are abusing it by deleting posts just because they disagree with the different and valid opinion etc for example. Facebook allow this and it seems to work quite well, I've disagreed with folk on Facebook but I have never deleted their post for example. It might end up with a more harmonious message board where different opinions are valued and moronic one-liners that rub folk up the wrong way are quickly removed?
I believe that the board would end up with broken threads that make little sense and of only one point of view. If thread openers choose to shut down a thread because of opinions divergent to their own, what makes you think they will choose to allow those opinions on their threads if they have the option of cutting them out?

Someone mentioned earlier on about open policing with the mod identified. Why? They are identified by the word mod. I don't need to know who they are. They are not making the ultimate decisions about threads/posts: the owner of this board is, and he is identified and can be contacted if anyone were feeling unfairly treated. The mods, when identified, can no longer participate freely as orgers. They, like everyone else here, are orgers and enjoy posting and reading and are entitled to carry on doing so. They are also giving some of their free time trying to keep he board the way we expect to find it. There is a tendency to let this spill over into real life. So not only is there the risk of the board being completely spoilt for them, but also for it to affect them in their daily lives. No.... the mod is identified as he/she needs to be (when they post as a mod, they are identified by the term moderator). Their decision is not the ultimate one and everyone has recourse. It is better like this.

reddevil
08-Nov-09, 20:19
Tackle the 'offended' brigade head on.

There's more than a couple on here who are quick to criticise and pass their own ill-informed jugement at the drop of a hat, only to retreat in a cloud of self-pity when someone takes them apart. If anything this place isn't robust enough in my view. If you can't hack verbal fisticuffs - don't get involved.

The worst ones are those who pounce upon any new poster who dares to put something up that's open to polarising views. Shades of playground bullies picking on 'the new kid' because they think they can get away with it?

More modding isn't the answer, you'll just stifle this place until it becomes nothing more than a sycophantic back-slappers club.

I've nothing against people discussing what their favourite cushion is, or what the latest bargains are in Matalan. But I cannot see why those who wish to lay into each other in a reasonably intelligent manner (without getting too personal:Razz) should have to tone it down to suit those who don't want to get involved.

We're a broad church at the moment - and that's how it should be.

[edit]: and yes, we've lost a lot of bloody good posters on here.
i totally agree,sticks and stone and all that,a good debate hurts no one.

reddevil
08-Nov-09, 20:27
I was going to reply, then I wasn't and then I wrote a long rambling diatribe, then I binned it and now this:

I am probably very guilty of being an ijeet and posting silly nonsense on threads, but hey, it's just my feeble attempt to inject a little humour into proceedings.

There are a few people on here that are frankly a bit precious and forget that this is an open forum on the tinterweb where anyone can, and do, come along and post whatever they want. They can hide behind random usernames, maybe two or three, and stir up the melting pot. Trolls are about, learn to live with it.

Heavy moderation stops the forum being a forum, it just becomes a channel for the chosen few.

It appears to me that some people forget that for a "forum" for "debate" to work, it requires people with differing opinions.

My suggestion is for the mod's to consider an adult / over 18 section. Less rules, more open topics, self regulated threads and the faint of heart be warned.
I've seen a similar thing on a different forum, entry to this section can be verified via Paypal type setup, members donate say minimum £1 to the Org and it then verifies the age, name etc. The trolls are thinned out, the Org's supported and we can have a good, robust debate with less fear of an infarction!

Just my tuppence........
love that idea,bring it on.

Cedric Farthsbottom III
08-Nov-09, 20:46
How can we improve the general section?


Nowt.It seems to be ticking away as always.Lets bring back aw the banned.As I said Nowt,it seems to be ticking away as always.[lol]