View Full Version : Fox Hunting
Loch not Lock
18-Oct-09, 23:41
David Cameron and his fellow hee-haw Tories wants to bring back fox hunting. Let's turn the clock back to the 1980's and black Maggie.[evil][evil]
Tom Cornwall
18-Oct-09, 23:42
David Cameron and his fellow hee-haw Tories wants to bring back fox hunting. Let's turn the clock back to the 1980's and black Maggie.[evil][evil]
what's that mean
Loch not Lock
18-Oct-09, 23:50
Smug Mr. Cameron is worth £30,000,000 plus so do you seriously think he can have a second thought for us normal, hard working people. He would rather chase a terrified fox and watch it being torn to pieces. Just stick with Labour and ignore the propoganda.
Loch not Lock
18-Oct-09, 23:52
what's that mean
Do I have to simplify it for you, Tom?:confused
Kevin Milkins
19-Oct-09, 00:17
Smug Mr. Cameron is worth £30,000,000 plus so do you seriously think he can have a second thought for us normal, hard working people. He would rather chase a terrified fox and watch it being torn to pieces. Just stick with Labour and ignore the propoganda.
I think he would prefer to chase a terrified labour voter and have him torn to pieces, but realises that he may not get away with that, so the poor old fox will just have to do for now.:confused
Smug Mr. Cameron is worth £30,000,000 plus so do you seriously think he can have a second thought for us normal, hard working people. He would rather chase a terrified fox and watch it being torn to pieces. Just stick with Labour and ignore the propoganda.
Ditto...............
New Liebour voters normal - must be a joke surely ?.
Now if you had said abnormal that might be nearer the mark.
tonkatojo
19-Oct-09, 11:05
Ditto...............
Were you watching "ghost" in the last couple of weeks BB ?.
But seriously you didn't think or expect anything else from the con merchants, history has it written down, they only ever look after their own rich mob/mafia, and con the gullible with promises of cake but they receive crumbs if they'r lucky. :( :(
Humerous Vegetable
19-Oct-09, 14:12
This will be good news for our local squire John Thurso who, on the infrequent occasions he actually attends parliament, seems to have spent most of his time (and our money) voting against the abolition of hunting. He even voted to exclude members of the House of Lords from complying with the new law. A real man of the people then.
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=John_Thurso&mpc=Caithness%2C_Sutherland_%26amp%3B_Easter_Ross&house=commons
This will be good news for our local squire John Thurso who, on the infrequent occasions he actually attends parliament, seems to have spent most of his time (and our money) voting against the abolition of hunting. He even voted to exclude members of the House of Lords from complying with the new law. A real man of the people then.
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=John_Thurso&mpc=Caithness%2C_Sutherland_%26amp%3B_Easter_Ross&house=commons
Thanks for that....very interesting indeed!!!POWER TO THE FOX!!;);)
Fox hunting must be preserved at all costs. I have reached this conclusion after reading the Adventures of an Irish RM by Somerville and Ross. Please note this has nothing to do with the useless TV adaptation of a few years back. (Nearly as bad as the Monarch of the Glen!) So get reading, Orgers!
By the way, did someone on the the Org recently post as a topic of thoughtful discussion "What color are your socks?"
Have mercy please on my elderly cardiovascular system - the excitement is liable to kill me!
Kathy@watten
19-Oct-09, 15:53
There has never been a fox hunt in Caithness, and down south where it has been, is where we have developed the brave skillfull riders who compete at the highest levels, the superb education for our horses and the day out in the country to boot, the killing of the fox is not the main aim of these sporting pursuits, they are a way of life and an integral part of british heritage enjoyed by farmers, kids from pony clubs and yes a few toffs. Removing fox hunting would lead to the death of a fabulous breed of dog which has been developed over hundreds of years, the loss of the heavy hunter horses as without hunting they prove too costly to keep and we would also lose a social scene for country folk. It truly is no worse as a sport than fishing, motor sport (think of the moths you kill doing this!) or showing of dogs etc. As foxes tend to hunt during darkening hours the chances of a healthy fox being found out and about during a hunt is scarce and is a good way to thin out the weaker or old foxes before they wander onto the road with an unsure outcome. At least with the hunt they will be killed outright by the marksman under current law.
I am not going to comment one way or the other on the act of hunting itself.
But...
Foxes now are being shot indiscriminately for fear of a population explosion. Foxes may soon become an endangered species due to the very law that was put in place to protect them :(
Humerous Vegetable
19-Oct-09, 16:21
There has never been a fox hunt in Caithness, and down south where it has been, is where we have developed the brave skillfull riders who compete at the highest levels, the superb education for our horses and the day out in the country to boot, the killing of the fox is not the main aim of these sporting pursuits, they are a way of life and an integral part of british heritage enjoyed by farmers, kids from pony clubs and yes a few toffs. Removing fox hunting would lead to the death of a fabulous breed of dog which has been developed over hundreds of years, the loss of the heavy hunter horses as without hunting they prove too costly to keep and we would also lose a social scene for country folk. It truly is no worse as a sport than fishing, motor sport (think of the moths you kill doing this!) or showing of dogs etc. As foxes tend to hunt during darkening hours the chances of a healthy fox being found out and about during a hunt is scarce and is a good way to thin out the weaker or old foxes before they wander onto the road with an unsure outcome. At least with the hunt they will be killed outright by the marksman under current law.
I don't really understand your post. How does sitting on a horse make you "brave"? Bravery is something shown by soldiers fighting militants in Afganistan, or firefighters going into a burning building to rescue trapped people, surely? "Removing" fox hunting (which has already happened by the way) has not lead to the death of foxhounds at all, according to the Kennel Club website anyway.
You say that hunting is no worse than showing dogs. I don't remember anything being ripped to death at the last dog show I attended. Maybe the judges were a bit nervous though.
Oscar Wilde had it right when he said that foxhunting was "The unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible".
Kathy@watten
19-Oct-09, 16:41
You seem to have picked me up wrongly re dog showing I was refering to cruelty scales, having seen the discarded puppies that have not made the grade, the parading of inbred disease prone dogs (this extends to any showing) Of course within this there are some very credible breeders and showers too. Surely this is as bad or equal in "cruelty" or are animals all worth different treatment? What one person considers good treatment may at times be detrimental to the animal, think of all the obese pets killed by "kindness" the under stimulated household pets couped up for 20 + hours a day??
The bravery refered to was that of the rider and horses who tackle cross country obstacles at speed, think of our fantastic record in eventing on a world level, think the fantastic grounding the horses get hunting learning to look after themselves and go forth boldly and same for the riders. I cannot draw parables to the men and women fighting in the wars of this world but in their field these equestrians are brave. I am an animal lover and have pets but also eat meat and eggs and drink milk...does that make me a hypocrite?
Good grief, humorous vegetable, use your imagination!
Imagine clambering aboard your faithful mount (step ladders will be provided for beginners)feeling those hot equine flanks between your thighs, quaffing a stirup cup full of Old Pultney, and then a whimper (the horse, not you HV) a canter and you are off! Well not quite, you are still on but you get my drift. And then hurtling over flagstone fences (a unique Caithness obstacle) through bogs and over peat hags (I am not clear what a peat hag is - but we've got her- and wont it make a spledndid front page for the Org news, with a close up of the fox who is found in his usual spot, the org garbage bin, chewing through the recyclables. His great great grandpa, with true fox cunning made the flit from the bogs years ago and the population followed his example.
There is a solution to the Watten urban fox.
Why not import a couple of the wolves that I understand will soon be introduced to Sutherlandshire.
Humerous Vegetable
19-Oct-09, 17:06
Good grief, humorous vegetable, use your imagination!
Imagine clambering aboard your faithful mount (step ladders will be provided for beginners)feeling those hot equine flanks between your thighs, quaffing a stirup cup full of Old Pultney, and then a whimper (the horse, not you HV) a canter and you are off! Well not quite, you are still on but you get my drift. And then hurtling over flagstone fences (a unique Caithness obstacle) through bogs and over peat hags (I am not clear what a peat hag is - but we've got her- and wont it make a spledndid front page for the Org news, with a close up of the fox who is found in his usual spot, the org garbage bin, chewing through the recyclables. His great great grandpa, with true fox cunning made the flit from the bogs years ago and the population followed his example.
There is a solution to the Watten urban fox.
Why not import a couple of the wolves that I understand will soon be introduced to Sutherlandshire.
Somerville & Ross have a lot to answer for. Speaking of hags, Mrs Cadogan is my role model in life. There's no shire in Sutherland, Mr Flurry.
Kevin Milkins
19-Oct-09, 17:07
Coming from an agricultural back ground, I have had cause to shoot the fox on more than one occasion, but have never enjoyed the thought of hunting on horse back, but each to there own and as long as the animal is dispatched in an humane way, I just used to except that is the way of the country.
A film that I found very heart warming and part of it was made not far from where I lived in Shropshire gives a very different perspective of the fox.
The Belstone Fox (1973) (http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.britmovie.co.uk/studios/pinewood/filmography/1970/1973/001.html&ei=bYzcSveVNM3RjAeA5-zdCA&sa=X&oi=spellmeleon_result&resnum=2&ct=result&ved=0CA0QhgIwAQ&usg=AFQjCNEotzYT5pDcpwTfRWBobu4tX4gGqg)
Just a quick question from a non-native...
Foxes in England are at pest proportions - I cannot remember a day when I haven't seen several; both in the countryside and the town. I'm yet to see one in Caithness...Where are they all?
Kathy@watten
19-Oct-09, 17:49
With there being no hunting on horseback in Caithness farmers (and there are lots of them in Caithness) can and do shoot them to protect their livestock. The majority of the foxes you will see in Caithness are strung up on fences as proof of them being shot by the gamekeepers. Many of these foxes are shot at nights by folk in trucks with special lamps. Again not very sporting but it is what happens hence the controlled population.
cazmanian_minx
19-Oct-09, 18:05
It's odd; I used to follow a hunt when I lived in England and I also went on the big Liberty and Livelihood march in London. I didn't meet a single toff, most of the people out hunting were farmers or their kids, people wanting to qualify their point-to-point horses for the season, there were nurses, shop assistants, pharmacists - people from all walks of life, most of them on average or below average salaries. I'd rather a well-run hunt than indiscriminate blasting of any fox in sight by un-expert marksmen.
And Lush will never, ever get any of my money again after its decision to give financial support to the Hunt Saboteurs Association who, in my experience, are little more than vandals.
With there being no hunting on horseback in Caithness farmers (and there are lots of them in Caithness) can and do shoot them to protect their livestock. The majority of the foxes you will see in Caithness are strung up on fences as proof of them being shot by the gamekeepers. Many of these foxes are shot at nights by folk in trucks with special lamps. Again not very sporting but it is what happens hence the controlled population.
So my theory of foxes becoming endangered in the future due to the hunting ban has already happened here? Or have they always been shot?
There has never been a fox hunt in Caithness, and down south where it has been, is where we have developed the brave skillfull riders who compete at the highest levels, the superb education for our horses and the day out in the country to boot, the killing of the fox is not the main aim of these sporting pursuits, they are a way of life and an integral part of british heritage enjoyed by farmers, kids from pony clubs and yes a few toffs. Removing fox hunting would lead to the death of a fabulous breed of dog which has been developed over hundreds of years, the loss of the heavy hunter horses as without hunting they prove too costly to keep and we would also lose a social scene for country folk. It truly is no worse as a sport than fishing, motor sport (think of the moths you kill doing this!) or showing of dogs etc. As foxes tend to hunt during darkening hours the chances of a healthy fox being found out and about during a hunt is scarce and is a good way to thin out the weaker or old foxes before they wander onto the road with an unsure outcome. At least with the hunt they will be killed outright by the marksman under current law.
Any old excuse.........POWER TO FOXY.;)
Coming from an agricultural back ground, I have had cause to shoot the fox on more than one occasion, but have never enjoyed the thought of hunting on horse back, but each to there own and as long as the animal is dispatched in an humane way, I just used to except that is the way of the country.
A film that I found very heart warming and part of it was made not far from where I lived in Shropshire gives a very different perspective of the fox.
The Belstone Fox (1973) (http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.britmovie.co.uk/studios/pinewood/filmography/1970/1973/001.html&ei=bYzcSveVNM3RjAeA5-zdCA&sa=X&oi=spellmeleon_result&resnum=2&ct=result&ved=0CA0QhgIwAQ&usg=AFQjCNEotzYT5pDcpwTfRWBobu4tX4gGqg)
Found this too hard to watch............but I find any film with animals in tooo hard to watch...I was a wreck with Casper and the Fox!!
Just a quick question from a non-native...
Foxes in England are at pest proportions - I cannot remember a day when I haven't seen several; both in the countryside and the town. I'm yet to see one in Caithness...Where are they all?
Nasty men with guns and big lights have been out..................horrid people.[disgust]
Is fox hunting with dogs an effective method to keep their numbers down?:confused
The darling little foxes should be left alone by these bad dogs and 'orrible men with guns n' lamps.
There are surely enough new born lambs and poultry out there that a percentage killed or maimed by brer fox is not going to matter to these rich landowners and farmers.
rich landowners and farmers.
ha ha ha @ rich
rich landowners and farmers.
and them horsey crowd with their red jackets and hunting horns, chasing poor wee bushy tailed animals with muckle great horses and dowgs [disgust]
The ban of fox hunting has always irked me because it is such a silly class issue.
The same Labour politicians that quite ardently defended the rights of a fox are the same idiots who sent our fellow poorly equipped countrymen to fight and die in a foreign land.
There are more pressing issues to be addressed in the world by our Government than worrying about some damned fox hunters.
It's was an absoloute waste of time for our parliament to be voting on that issue and it just highlights the current failings of democracy in Europe where the State constantly undermines and overules the rights of the indivdual.
If Labour spent more time tackling the serious issues like where our energy is going to come from in 30 years time instead of cheap short term political goals then this country would be a lot better for it
buggyracer
19-Oct-09, 20:45
The ban of fox hunting has always irked me because it is such a silly class issue.
The same Labour politicians that quite ardently defended the rights of a fox are the same idiots who sent our fellow poorly equipped countrymen to fight and die in a foreign land.
There are more pressing issues to be addressed in the world by our Government than worrying about some damned fox hunters.
It's was an absoloute waste of time for our parliament to be voting on that issue and it just highlights the current failings of democracy in Europe where the State constantly undermines and overules the rights of the indivdual.
If Labour spent more time tackling the serious issues like where our energy is going to come from in 30 years time instead of cheap short term political goals then this country would be a lot better for it
not to mention the actual bill itself being totally unworkable, the act of hunting with dogs, has had very few convictions, as to proove beyond unquestionable doubt that the intention is to actually catch and kill a fox with a pack of hounds has proven almost impossible, how many millions of our money was wasted on it? :confused
Exactly it was nonsense, it should of been something debated upon on a more local level by the people it directly affected which is what democracy is all about. Being from Caithness I dont and never will care about foxhunting, I dont vote on a national level to have them waste time on something like that.
Waste of taxpayers money, time and effort and another blow for democracy as it was a direct attack on the rural communities of England. It's not even much of an issue in Scotland.
Dog-eared
19-Oct-09, 22:17
It still shows John "Thurso" 's stance though......
There's a lot of 'class' snobbery going on here.
All those 'Toffs' hunting poor fluffy things......odd that, I was brought up in an area where all the hunts were mainly working men or people who grafted for their money.
Maybe this has more to do with people being sucked into the horrendous anthropomorphic mindset that Disney has bestowed upon the more gullible members of our community.
Rats...I like rats...perhaps we shouldn't poison them, kill them with dogs or shoot them?
Come on, let's hear some support for rats from the anti-hunt/shooting/working dog/anyone who drives a 4x4 and owns a horse brigade......[lol]
It still shows John "Thurso" 's stance though......
So what?!
You make it sound as if his stance on what is basically a sporting pursuit which comes down to personal choice actually matters!
Im more intrested on what he has to say on Employment, The war in Afghanistan, The Energy Crisis, Climate Change ect...
Any old excuse.........POWER TO FOXY.;)
A tale with a bit of a moral ....
"Boris and Bunce and Bean, one fat, one short, one lean, those horrible crooks, so different in looks, were nonetheless equally mean."
They embarked on a plan to get rid of the fantastic one and failed.
Wonder if Roald Dahl was sending out a message to those nasty hunters.
It's was an absoloute waste of time for our parliament to be voting on that issue and it just highlights the current failings of democracy in Europe where the State constantly undermines and overules the rights of the indivdual.
I disagree completely, the Labour government put through the hunting with dogs legislation because there was such a ground swell of popular support for it.
In fact passing the law has actually freed up a lot of parliamentary time because private members were putting forward their own bills on foxhunting and the tories were filibustering each attempt (iow timewasting parliamentary time) so that the popular law would not go through.
buggyracer
20-Oct-09, 09:47
I disagree completely, the Labour government put through the hunting with dogs legislation because there was such a ground swell of popular support for it.
In fact passing the law has actually freed up a lot of parliamentary time because private members were putting forward their own bills on foxhunting and the tories were filibustering each attempt (iow timewasting parliamentary time) so that the popular law would not go through.
nothing to do with the animal rights groups giving them millions of pounds to push the bill through :roll:
nothing to do with the animal rights groups giving them millions of pounds to push the bill through :roll:
I don't think animal rights groups give money to the Labour party but I do know that rich landowners are giving money to the Tories to bring hunting back?:roll:
I don't think animal rights groups give money to the Labour party but I do know that rich landowners are giving money to the Tories to bring hunting back?:roll:
Spot on there....;)
buggyracer
20-Oct-09, 10:03
I don't think animal rights groups give money to the Labour party but I do know that rich landowners are giving money to the Tories to bring hunting back?:roll:
sorry :confused
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1329087/Labour-taking-anti-hunt-groups-cash-for-policies.html
I don't think animal rights groups give money to the Labour party but I do know that rich landowners are giving money to the Tories to bring hunting back?:roll:
It is a matter of public record that P.A.L. (Political Animal Lobby) made the following donations to New Liebour :
1997 - £1,000,000 (£1 Million Pounds)
1997 - £100,000 (One Hundred Thousand Pounds)
2001 - £30,000 (Thirty Thousand Pounds)
Of course New Liebour and their apologists have always worked on the basis that if we tell the same lies often enough then at least some of the gullible public will start to believe us.
Weapons of Mass Destruction anyone ? Bernie Ecclestone's £1 Million anyone ?. Mandelslime's mortgage anyone ?. Referendum on Europe anyone ? Educassion educassion educassion anyone ?
The gap between (Rich) and poor in the UK is greater now than at any time since the 1940's anyone ?.
Can we have facts about these (Rich) landowners please
tonkatojo
20-Oct-09, 10:31
It is a matter of public record that P.A.L. (Political Animal Lobby) made the following donations to New Liebour :
1997 - £1,000,000 (£1 Million Pounds)
1997 - £100,000 (One Hundred Thousand Pounds)
2001 - £30,000 (Thirty Thousand Pounds)
Of course New Liebour and their apologists have always worked on the basis that if we tell the same lies often enough then at least some of the gullible public will start to believe us.
Weapons of Mass Destruction anyone ? Bernie Ecclestone's £1 Million anyone ?. Mandelslime's mortgage anyone ?. Referendum on Europe anyone ? Educassion educassion educassion anyone ?
The gap between (Rich) and poor in the UK is greater now than at any time since the 1940's anyone ?.
Can we have facts about these (Rich) landowners please
I think your last 3-4 paragraphs are the reason why I will not be voting for new labour nor the con's for obvious reasons, now UKIP there's something to get me excited about. As for the lib dems, what. Snp, the breakup of the UK to me is not an option so a no to them which is a pity because they do fight Scotland's corner well..
I'm not a Tory, I'm certainly not wealthy, I do not come from a family with a 'name' or any percieved standing in the community. Yet I have shot, fished and hunted in the past.
Can someone explain to me why I am being labelled as a 'Toff' by some dimwitted types every time hunting is brought up?
Like I said earlier, a lot of this anti-hunting claptrap is nothing more than inverted snobbery from political dinosaurs who still believe in some 'class war' horseshit and people who can't hack the fact that some folk may own a patch of land and drive a fairly expensive motor.
Usually the same brainless prats who believe all farmers are 'rich' and that owning a £35k tractor is somehow a luxury. Funny that, I never hear people making snide remarks on the fact that, say, an engineering firm has just spent £35k on a CNC milling machine. Yet you don't have to go far in these septic isles to find some snide little git stabbing someone in the back purely because they own land and can afford to buy expensive kit.
Gits.
I, now UKIP there's something to get me excited about. ..
UKIP is just as bad as any of the other parties it seems, they all have their snouts in the trough
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6373254/UKIP-to-forfeit-350000-in-donations-after-Electoral-Commission-victory.html
I'm not a Tory, I'm certainly not wealthy, I do not come from a family with a 'name' or any percieved standing in the community. Yet I have shot, fished and hunted in the past.
Can someone explain to me why I am being labelled as a 'Toff' by some dimwitted types every time hunting is brought up?
Like I said earlier, a lot of this anti-hunting claptrap is nothing more than inverted snobbery from political dinosaurs who still believe in some 'class war' horseshit and people who can't hack the fact that some folk may own a patch of land and drive a fairly expensive motor.
Usually the same brainless prats who believe all farmers are 'rich' and that owning a £35k tractor is somehow a luxury. Funny that, I never hear people making snide remarks on the fact that, say, an engineering firm has just spent £35k on a CNC milling machine. Yet you don't have to go far in these septic isles to find some snide little git stabbing someone in the back purely because they own land and can afford to buy expensive kit.
Gits.
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiz.:roll:
It is a matter of public record that P.A.L. (Political Animal Lobby) made the following donations to New Liebour :
1997 - £1,000,000 (£1 Million Pounds)
1997 - £100,000 (One Hundred Thousand Pounds)
2001 - £30,000 (Thirty Thousand Pounds)
Of course New Liebour and their apologists have always worked on the basis that if we tell the same lies often enough then at least some of the gullible public will start to believe us.
It is a matter of record that these donations (all accusations made public by pro hunting websites without proper confirmation by the way:roll:) were a long time ago, hardly bankrolling the Labour Party! And they were made well before political funding reform was passed.....by the Labour Party I might add.....
Is that all you got?:confused
It is a matter of record that these donations (all accusations made public by pro hunting websites without proper confirmation by the way:roll:) were a long time ago, hardly bankrolling the Labour Party! And they were made well before political funding reform was passed.....by the Labour Party I might add.....
Is that all you got?:confused
Theres lots more where that came from !
These 'accusations' are fact according to Liebour Party records but then thay were never very good at keeping records ?.
Are you saying that these donations are not factual ?
Now what about these donations to the bad Tories from 'Rich' landowners - give us some facts or accusations on that.
Theres lots more where that came from!
Of that I've no doubt...:roll: :D
Of that I've no doubt...:roll: :D
Yes Indeed - Weapons of Mass Destruction pointed at 'rich' landowners.
Yes Indeed - Weapons of Mass Destruction pointed at 'rich' landowners.
As a digression, the Conservatives (the toffy party) were the ones that bought the Trident system from the US for billions, the Labour party would have scrapped it before it got into service and put the money to other uses. I have no doubt that the tories will be all for another upgrade to the present system.
Come on now Rheg, do not digress - can you not spill the beans about these rich landowners and their pro fox hunting donations ?.
You made the statement so is it not put up or shut up time ?
tonkatojo
20-Oct-09, 13:31
UKIP is just as bad as any of the other parties it seems, they all have their snouts in the trough
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6373254/UKIP-to-forfeit-350000-in-donations-after-Electoral-Commission-victory.html
That might be so, but its the idea of ditching the EEC and getting more in touch with the Commonwealth countries again for trading, being able to govern our UK without the hindrance of eec directives and the likes I the sound of.
Here is an excellent recipe for fox which proves Oscar Wilde to be completely wrong - fox is highly edible. And after you've eaten your fill and are contentedly burping will you please leave RICH alone!!!!! (as in the Rich landlords. Othewise I will have to set the dogs on you!)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/recipes/article2049184.ece
Come on now Rheg, do not digress - can you not spill the beans about these rich landowners and their pro fox hunting donations ?.
You made the statement so is it not put up or shut up time ?
Frankly I'm not that interested in politics, I'm just interested in what is morally right to everything around me, if it is a toss up between a load of folks campaigning selflessly to stop cruelty and injustice and that of a load of privileged few who love to see cruelty being done then there is no contest. I've got my opinion and I'm happy with that until proven wrong.;)
So your statement about (Rich) landowners is purely your opinion with no basis in fact ?
So your statement about (Rich) landowners is purely your opinion with no basis in fact ?
It's an opinion based on facts that I can't be bothered to post on here. Care to help me out there, good fellow?:confused
Make your mind up Rheggers old chaps - either pee or get off the pot as my Toff (Rich) chums would say
Make your mind up Rheggers old chaps - either pee or get off the pot as my Toff (Rich) chums would say
What make my mind up to be bothered is what you mean?:confused
I'm kind of puzzled by John Thurso's stance here. His late father and his game keepers brought me up to consider that the only good fox was a dead fox and that was usually carried out very effectively with a shotgun or rifle.
So, back in the sixties when I found myself working for another toff in the deep south and on an estate shoot when Reynard emerged from the drive at the end of a wood Alltnabreac training promptly kicked in and one dead fox joined the pheasants and other game. It was a social blunder of the deepest magnitude which was hastily covered up in case word should get out to the local hunt members and I was appraised of the more civilised way our southern cousins disposed of their vermin.
Incidentally it is complete garbage to mantain that fox numbers can only be controlled by hunting, just send a few keepers from Caithness south to show them the alternatives.
I am not going to comment one way or the other on the act of hunting itself.
But...
Foxes now are being shot indiscriminately for fear of a population explosion. Foxes may soon become an endangered species due to the very law that was put in place to protect them
So then you (and others) believe that fox hunting was an efficient means of population control for the foxes???????????[lol][lol][lol]
Population control in wild animals can be a necessity. Unfortunately it is mans intervention in nature that makes it a necessity. Chasing down a fox with a dozen horses and hounds on a weekend when half cut is not population control of foxes.
Fox hunting is different in absolutely nothing to bull fighting. Absolutely nothing except for the species envolved. How many of you potencial fox hunters would go watch a bull fight and cheer?
Kathy, I understand what you are saying about heritage of breeds that will die out, etc. But breeds evolve, things change, times change. The bells tolled on shire horses when machinery took over their many chores on the farm. Greatly reduced, but they are still here, albeit not with the same "job". There is nothing to stop people from getting together, maybe laying a false trail, or just going out for a good old tally'ho ride.
porshiepoo
21-Oct-09, 08:20
As someone who has unfortunately participated in this barbaric sport I can honestly say that it should never ever be made legal. Ever!
I used to work on a Hunting & Eventing yard and although I only participated in a hunt a few times, it was too much.
There is nothing humane about it, the dogs do not line up and one is selected for a swift kill of the fox.
The poor fox is chased to exhaustion and then is descended on by a pack of over excited hounds that the proceed to tear it apart. The excitement from the following hunt is actually quite worrying to witness and the screaming of the fox is traumatising. It's basically a frenzy.
What you have to remember as well is that some places actually protect the fox breeding grounds in order to carry out these hunts, the whole sick practice has absolutely nothing to do with keeping fox numbers down, that is simply the concept they hide behind in order to make the majority of the public accept this cruel sport.
If a rider requires this type of exercise for the horse and themselves then Drag hunting should fit the bill just as easily.
I guess Drag Hunting, which employs the use of the dogs that people are so concerned about being killed with the illegality of blood hunting, doesn't have quite the same popularity. Why is this? Simply because there is no death at the end of it and there's no neanderthal gesture of blood smearing on new comers.
If the fox population is increasing so massively, employ the use of humane equipment to deal with them swiftly and painlessly.
porshiepoo
21-Oct-09, 08:21
So then you (and others) believe that fox hunting was an efficient means of population control for the foxes???????????[lol][lol][lol]
Population control in wild animals can be a necessity. Unfortunately it is mans intervention in nature that makes it a necessity. Chasing down a fox with a dozen horses and hounds on a weekend when half cut is not population control of foxes.
Fox hunting is different in absolutely nothing to bull fighting. Absolutely nothing except for the species envolved. How many of you potencial fox hunters would go watch a bull fight and cheer?
Kathy, I understand what you are saying about heritage of breeds that will die out, etc. But breeds evolve, things change, times change. The bells tolled on shire horses when machinery took over their many chores on the farm. Greatly reduced, but they are still here, albeit not with the same "job". There is nothing to stop people from getting together, maybe laying a false trail, or just going out for a good old tally'ho ride.
Absolutely, completely agree 100%
buggyracer
21-Oct-09, 08:48
As someone who has unfortunately participated in this barbaric sport I can honestly say that it should never ever be made legal. Ever!
I used to work on a Hunting & Eventing yard and although I only participated in a hunt a few times, it was too much.
There is nothing humane about it, the dogs do not line up and one is selected for a swift kill of the fox.
The poor fox is chased to exhaustion and then is descended on by a pack of over excited hounds that the proceed to tear it apart. The excitement from the following hunt is actually quite worrying to witness and the screaming of the fox is traumatising. It's basically a frenzy.
What you have to remember as well is that some places actually protect the fox breeding grounds in order to carry out these hunts, the whole sick practice has absolutely nothing to do with keeping fox numbers down, that is simply the concept they hide behind in order to make the majority of the public accept this cruel sport.
If a rider requires this type of exercise for the horse and themselves then Drag hunting should fit the bill just as easily.
I guess Drag Hunting, which employs the use of the dogs that people are so concerned about being killed with the illegality of blood hunting, doesn't have quite the same popularity. Why is this? Simply because there is no death at the end of it and there's no neanderthal gesture of blood smearing on new comers.
If the fox population is increasing so massively, employ the use of humane equipment to deal with them swiftly and painlessly.
interesting to hear from somone who has actually attended a hunt for themselves ;)
just one question, what happens when "the hunt" are out on there drag hunt or mock hunt and they come across the real thing?
do you expect the hounds to still follow the drag?
going back to the ban, i think you will find most hunt supporters are happy with their lot, the ban cant be enforced or easily proven to have been broken, hunt numbers are at all time highs, thanks to labour it could be said thay have never had it better! :lol:
porshiepoo
21-Oct-09, 09:39
interesting to hear from somone who has actually attended a hunt for themselves ;)
just one question, what happens when "the hunt" are out on there drag hunt or mock hunt and they come across the real thing?
do you expect the hounds to still follow the drag?
going back to the ban, i think you will find most hunt supporters are happy with their lot, the ban cant be enforced or easily proven to have been broken, hunt numbers are at all time highs, thanks to labour it could be said thay have never had it better! :lol:
I've never actually participated in Drag Hunting but if the dog gets the scent of a Fox or a Deer then it should be the job of the Whipper-in to stop them giving chase.
Drag hunting also involves the use of Bloodhounds as well as Fox hounds and often will gather foot followers also.
Should be much more enjoyable without all the gore and something that I would definitely consider participating in.
buggyracer
21-Oct-09, 09:46
I've never actually participated in Drag Hunting but if the dog gets the scent of a Fox or a Deer then it should be the job of the Whipper-in to stop them giving chase.
Drag hunting also involves the use of Bloodhounds as well as Fox hounds and often will gather foot followers also.
Should be much more enjoyable without all the gore and something that I would definitely consider participating in.
but how is the whipper in, to know they are following the drag or the real thing, its not impossible for the two paths to cross ;)
Incidentally it is complete garbage to mantain that fox numbers can only be controlled by hunting, just send a few keepers from Caithness south to show them the alternatives.
So then you (and others) believe that fox hunting was an efficient means of population control for the foxes??????????
It's not about eradicating the foxes, its about maintaining them at a sensible level. Easy food means population explosion. Hunting weeds off some of them reducing the levels to a number that is manageable. What I am trying to say is that up here there are very few foxes - they have been obliterated by the method of control. South of the border there are more foxes - you can still see them wandering around at dusk. After the initial hunting ban there was a population boom, now there are fewer and fewer animals as they are being "effectively" controled - how is this good for the species?
Incidentally I have never fox hunted
There is nothing to stop people from getting together, maybe laying a false trail, or just going out for a good old tally'ho ride.
I guess Drag Hunting, which employs the use of the dogs that people are so concerned about being killed with the illegality of blood hunting, doesn't have quite the same popularity.
Drag hunting has always been as popular as fox hunting it's just landowners were less keen to give access to their land as they were 'getting nothing out of it'. In Cheshire where I am originally from, even pre-ban, the divide was about 50:50 between fox:drag.
The only problem with the drag hunting is that to participate it is far more expensive. The minimum I have paid for 3 hours riding is £50. Factor in travel on top of that and you have a rather expensive day out
Foxhunting was a day out for everyone (rich and poor alike). Drag hunting is for those who can afford it
Again I would like to add - because someone has implied my view despite me not actually giving them - I have never fox hunted. But I can see how it can benefit the farmers, the fox (in that they are not "overhunted") and the fragile rural economy...
Dogs in action at a drag hunt
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/l34nn3_k4ut/9427_187939485319_500905319_4372060.jpg
Put yourself in the fox's postion!
I'd rather be shot in the head and die almost instantly than chased til exhaustion hits and then torn to bits!
Fox hunting is an absoulte barbaric sport and if we are so concerned about keeping the population of foxes down then shoot them instead of hunting them down and ripping them to shreads! [disgust]
Animal cruelty in an any form is just unnesscary. If you have to kill an animal for whatever reason then make it quick and painless. [evil]
As humans we have the responsibilty to look after and care for our environment and the creatures in it. When you must kill an animal to protect several other animals then we must have the deciency to respect the life we are ending by making it as quick and painless as we can.
I do not know much about the legislation with the ban of fox hunting but i know what is right and wrong and fox hunting is severely wrong on so many levels.
I'd rather be shot in the head and die almost instantly than chased til exhaustion hits and then torn to bits!
IME foxes aren't killed by head shots. They are often shot in the leg or the side and finished off with a second bullet. Sometimes the wounded fox escapes and goes off to die a slow death. It is very rare for a clean head shot - have you tried shooting a moving target at distance?
Lamping at night puts the odds in the favour of the hunter as the lamp almost stuns the fox. But if a fox isn't killed clean you have little to no chance of finding it to finish it off humanely...
And shooting isn't painless :roll:
Edit - what we need is to electrify all the fences in the countryside to keep the foxes away from the animals (as I have done with my own coop - mainly to keep my dogs off though). Unfortunately electrifying the fences would make a walk in the countryside pretty difficult and it isn't exactly eco friendly. It's a no-win thing :( We need someone to invent really good fencing that will keep the foxes out. That way lack of food will keep the numbers down and hunting won't be necessary. Anyone up for the challenge of super smashing fence design?
porshiepoo
21-Oct-09, 12:54
I don't dispute the need to keep Fox numbers down in some areas, however Fox hunting with Dogs should never ever be an accepted form of culling.
It's no different to the slaughter of whales or the clubbing of seal pups. It's barbaric and should not have a place in society today.
I can also state one thing with 99.9% of surety and that is that keeping Fox numbers down for the benefit of livestock and our countryside is not the reason that people enjoy and participate in this so called 'sport'.
As I said earlier I know of areas where Fox have been encouraged to breed and those areas actively protected purely for this enjoyment.
These people actually enjoy hunting and then chasing these animals, they do their utmost to prevent them getting away and will enter dodgy territory to get their prize.
There is no respect for the poor animal that has given them a couple of hours of bloomin pure thrilling enjoyment.
porshiepoo
21-Oct-09, 13:14
but how is the whipper in, to know they are following the drag or the real thing, its not impossible for the two paths to cross ;)
Correct it's not impossible for the two paths to cross and I daresay that some hunts disguise themselves as Drag Hunters and have the odd "accidental" kill.
You need to understand the mentality of these pack dogs and the control that the Whipper in should have over these hounds.
Although the Huntsman is responsible for the hounds in field and will give them their orders, the whippers in will ride alongside the hounds and prevent any splitting off from the pack to investigate a different scent from the chemical one they should be following.
Any decent Whipper in will be able to tell the difference in the noise and the behaviour of the pack when they pick up a live scent, plus, the direction is pre-determined and he/she/they will have a pretty good idea of where they should be headed.
I actually don't understand the problem anyone has with preferring a chemical chase over a live chase.
There is a lot of pomp and circumstance involved with Hunting - dress codes, etiquette codes and heaven forbid anyone who actually passes the field master but this is what a lot of people like and I guess it keeps the hunt group semi organised, but this doesn't change with Drag Hunting, the same etiquette is followed just without the blood, gore, tragedy and horror that may follow a live hunt.
I said Population CONTROL NOT Extermination.
Can you pretty please explain to me how hunting a few foxes on the weekend is efficient population control? I just do not get it. The death of a few foxes does not curb fox numbers. The hounds do not sniff out the most significant animals to curb population growth. Fox hunting with hounds and horses is about people entertaining themselves with a blood sport. It has never ever been about population control. It's about having fun. Now I know I wouldn't want my child to have fun at the expense of animal welfare. Would you?
but how is the whipper in, to know they are following the drag or the real thing, its not impossible for the two paths to cross ;)
If the whipper (or whatever you want to call the person responsible for the dogs) does not know his/her dogs, has not trained his/her dogs and cannot tell from their behaviour what is going on then they aren't doing their job properly. dogs are extremely efficient in communicating with "their people/pack". If you have a dog then you already know this.
buggyracer
21-Oct-09, 14:09
If the whipper (or whatever you want to call the person responsible for the dogs) does not know his/her dogs, has not trained his/her dogs and cannot tell from their behaviour what is going on then they aren't doing their job properly. dogs are extremely efficient in communicating with "their people/pack". If you have a dog then you already know this.
yes, but they are also extreemly efficient at doing their own thing on occassion no matter how well trained :lol: (i have dogs so i do know this)
buggyracer
21-Oct-09, 14:14
Correct it's not impossible for the two paths to cross and I daresay that some hunts disguise themselves as Drag Hunters and have the odd "accidental" kill.
You need to understand the mentality of these pack dogs and the control that the Whipper in should have over these hounds.
Although the Huntsman is responsible for the hounds in field and will give them their orders, the whippers in will ride alongside the hounds and prevent any splitting off from the pack to investigate a different scent from the chemical one they should be following.
Any decent Whipper in will be able to tell the difference in the noise and the behaviour of the pack when they pick up a live scent, plus, the direction is pre-determined and he/she/they will have a pretty good idea of where they should be headed.
I actually don't understand the problem anyone has with preferring a chemical chase over a live chase.
There is a lot of pomp and circumstance involved with Hunting - dress codes, etiquette codes and heaven forbid anyone who actually passes the field master but this is what a lot of people like and I guess it keeps the hunt group semi organised, but this doesn't change with Drag Hunting, the same etiquette is followed just without the blood, gore, tragedy and horror that may follow a live hunt.
so why has the Govt not tried to ban the outright culling of foxes? to me it seems the only way this can be stopped?
i have no interest in attending a mounted fox hunt, but i do feel this is a class thing, and labour have jumped on the bandwagon.
the fact that hundereds of thousands marched in London (the biggest, political march in history) to fight the ban to me suggests that perhaps joe public isnt so keen on the ban as labour would lead us to beleive??
[quote=Leanne;60980 And shooting isn't painless :roll:
Edit - what we need is to electrify all the fences in the countryside to keep the foxes away from the animals (as I have done with my own coop - mainly to keep my dogs off though). Unfortunately electrifying the fences would make a walk in the countryside pretty difficult and it isn't exactly eco friendly. It's a no-win thing :( We need someone to invent really good fencing that will keep the foxes out. That way lack of food will keep the numbers down and hunting won't be necessary. Anyone up for the challenge of super smashing fence design?[/quote]
Aye its not but if the hunters shoot the animal in the head then they would die quickly instead of doing a half job by shooting the animal in the leg. [disgust]
My dad was a part time hunter in his young days. He respected the life of the animal by breaking the neck or shooting in the head.
Aye you're right about the fences. If farmers had some sort of fence that kept the foxes out then they would'nt be such a worry about lifestock being killed and having to shoot the fox to protect their animals.
Put yourself in the fox's postion!
I'd rather be shot in the head and die almost instantly than chased til exhaustion hits and then torn to bits!
Fox hunting is an absoulte barbaric sport and if we are so concerned about keeping the population of foxes down then shoot them instead of hunting them down and ripping them to shreads! [disgust]
Animal cruelty in an any form is just unnesscary. If you have to kill an animal for whatever reason then make it quick and painless. [evil]
As humans we have the responsibilty to look after and care for our environment and the creatures in it. When you must kill an animal to protect several other animals then we must have the deciency to respect the life we are ending by making it as quick and painless as we can.
I do not know much about the legislation with the ban of fox hunting but i know what is right and wrong and fox hunting is severely wrong on so many levels.
I think u are with me on this..can not bear any kind of cruelty to animals.....and I actually love foxes...they can not get to TESCO for food .What they do is to survive...drag hunting is fine [ if that is what it is].POWER TO MR .FOX !!!;)
Aye its not but if the hunters shoot the animal in the head then they would die quickly instead of doing a half job by shooting the animal in the leg. [disgust]
My dad was a part time hunter in his young days. He respected the life of the animal by breaking the neck or shooting in the head.
Aye you're right about the fences. If farmers had some sort of fence that kept the foxes out then they would'nt be such a worry about lifestock being killed and having to shoot the fox to protect their animals.
But...surely that wouldmean the poor farmers spending cash!!!I think they would rather moan....;)
I said Population CONTROL NOT Extermination.
Can you pretty please explain to me how hunting a few foxes on the weekend is efficient population control? I just do not get it. The death of a few foxes does not curb fox numbers. The hounds do not sniff out the most significant animals to curb population growth. Fox hunting with hounds and horses is about people entertaining themselves with a blood sport. It has never ever been about population control. It's about having fun. Now I know I wouldn't want my child to have fun at the expense of animal welfare. Would you?
Ditto...;)
But...surely that wouldmean the poor farmers spending cash!!!I think they would rather moan....;)
And this comment proves exactly what I was talking about earlier.
An ignoramus who believes farmers are nothing more than wealthy skinflints.... thanks for that, Binbob. Right on cue......
porshiepoo
21-Oct-09, 16:53
buggyracer;609874]so why has the Govt not tried to ban the outright culling of foxes? to me it seems the only way this can be stopped?
I never said that there isn't a need for culling of Foxes. I daresay that in some areas there may be this need, although does anyone know what the Fox population has to reach to actually be deemed necessary to cull? And/or why?
Foxes maybe more of a nuisance in inner cities now than they ever were but this doesn't necessarily suggest an increase in population. To me it suggests that we have developed more and more of their habitat that they have little other choice.
Farmers don't like Foxes because they may prey on livestock but does this mean it is right to cull them? Not in my opinion it doesn't.
Do you honestly believe the only way to cull a Fox is to chase it down out numbered and tear it to shreds?
There are many marksmen that are more than able to take down a Fox with one shot from a rifle. The kill is much more swift and humane.
Wonder how long it will be before we cull the Fox to near extinction? May seem an unlikely outcome right now but we thought that about many species at one point or another.
The reason many people will stand against a Hunting ban is because it has become a way of life for many many people, not because they think it is the right way to keep the Fox population down.
Also many people stand against it simply because they don't like the idea of yet another civil liberty being taken away from them. They do not care about the ethics behind any of it.
And this comment proves exactly what I was talking about earlier.
An ignoramus who believes farmers are nothing more than wealthy skinflints.... thanks for that, Binbob. Right on cue......
I do not appreciate being called that....apology expected.u have ur views .I have mine,and there is absolutely nooooooooooo need to be so rude.[disgust][evil]
I have shot, fished and hunted in the past.
Can someone explain to me why I am being labelled as a 'Toff' by some dimwitted types every time hunting is brought up?
Like I said earlier, a lot of this anti-hunting claptrap is nothing more than inverted snobbery from political dinosaurs who still believe in some 'class war' horseshit and people who can't hack the fact that some folk may own a patch of land and drive a fairly expensive motor.
Usually the same brainless prats who believe all farmers are 'rich' and that owning a £35k tractor is somehow a luxury. Funny that, I never hear people making snide remarks on the fact that, say, an engineering firm has just spent £35k on a CNC milling machine. Yet you don't have to go far in these septic isles to find some snide little git stabbing someone in the back purely because they own land and can afford to buy expensive kit.
Gits.
What a charming woman you sound, MrsK, with such eloquent use of the English language.
Thank God I'm not MrK. :lol:
By the way, no one envies your land, nor your "expensive kit," but if you think that you have some sort of right to slaughter animals, you are very much mistaken.
I do not appreciate being called that....apology expected.u have ur views .I have mine,and there is absolutely nooooooooooo need to be so rude.[disgust][evil]
As one of these nasty men with rifles (horrid people in your words) perhaps when you hand it out then you should expect some back
As someone who has unfortunately participated in this barbaric sport I can honestly say that it should never ever be made legal. Ever!
I used to work on a Hunting & Eventing yard and although I only participated in a hunt a few times, it was too much.
There is nothing humane about it, the dogs do not line up and one is selected for a swift kill of the fox.
The poor fox is chased to exhaustion and then is descended on by a pack of over excited hounds that the proceed to tear it apart. The excitement from the following hunt is actually quite worrying to witness and the screaming of the fox is traumatising. It's basically a frenzy.
What you have to remember as well is that some places actually protect the fox breeding grounds in order to carry out these hunts, the whole sick practice has absolutely nothing to do with keeping fox numbers down, that is simply the concept they hide behind in order to make the majority of the public accept this cruel sport.
If a rider requires this type of exercise for the horse and themselves then Drag hunting should fit the bill just as easily.
I guess Drag Hunting, which employs the use of the dogs that people are so concerned about being killed with the illegality of blood hunting, doesn't have quite the same popularity. Why is this? Simply because there is no death at the end of it and there's no neanderthal gesture of blood smearing on new comers.
If the fox population is increasing so massively, employ the use of humane equipment to deal with them swiftly and painlessly.
Very well said. A fine post and worthy contribution covering all the main points of this vile activity called fox hunting. Thank you.
buggyracer
21-Oct-09, 18:21
I never said that there isn't a need for culling of Foxes.
nor did i say you did.
I daresay that in some areas there may be this need, although does anyone know what the Fox population has to reach to actually be deemed necessary to cull? And/or why?
Foxes maybe more of a nuisance in inner cities now than they ever were but this doesn't necessarily suggest an increase in population. To me it suggests that we have developed more and more of their habitat that they have little other choice.
Farmers don't like Foxes because they may prey on livestock but does this mean it is right to cull them? Not in my opinion it doesn't.
the law of culling foxes doesnt care for your opinion, :lol: i have seen first hand the damage caused by a fox with a taste for livestock, in this case they need culled.
Do you honestly believe the only way to cull a Fox is to chase it down out numbered and tear it to shreds?
There are many marksmen that are more than able to take down a Fox with one shot from a rifle. The kill is much more swift and humane.
i have stated before on the "rabbiting" thread, a marksman does have some degree of error, heck even military snipers dont hit there target everytime with a clean kill, a dog on the other hand either makes a catch or doesnt, and if the rabbit or fox is fit and healthy it stands more than a good chance of making its escape!
Wonder how long it will be before we cull the Fox to near extinction? May seem an unlikely outcome right now but we thought that about many species at one point or another.
Trust me a fox is far too cunning and numbers to many to allow that to happen, they are one of the most increadable wild animals to inhabit this isle!
The reason many people will stand against a Hunting ban is because it has become a way of life for many many people, not because they think it is the right way to keep the Fox population down.
Also many people stand against it simply because they don't like the idea of yet another civil liberty being taken away from them. They do not care about the ethics behind any of it.
why should the voice of a few overule the many? :confused
And this comment proves exactly what I was talking about earlier.
An ignoramus who believes farmers are nothing more than wealthy skinflints.... thanks for that, Binbob. Right on cue......
Completely out of order and you should apologise to Binbob. Surely you can conduct a debate without resorting to namecalling?!
What a charming woman you sound, MrsK, with such eloquent use of the English language.
Thank God I'm not MrK. :lol:
By the way, no one envies your land, nor your "expensive kit," but if you think that you have some sort of right to slaughter animals, you are very much mistaken.
Very well said!
Completely out of order and you should apologise to Binbob. Surely you can conduct a debate without resorting to namecalling?!
Thank u ,Liz.;);)
Kathy@watten
21-Oct-09, 19:52
In any debate situation just because someone's opinion differs from your own does not make them wrong or justifies the name calling and questioning of their moral value, we should be more tollerant of opinions and not ram them down the throats of others. I personally respect those who would not participate in hunting on horseback if they feel strongly about it, but struggle to feel for the objectors who attack and prevent the hunts. The short and long of it for me is as a country person I would like to regain the right to choose, surely that is what folk want in most situations not to be told what we can and can't do? I know there is no hunt locally but if there was one I would turn out and support it and have my kids ride out with the hunt too. This doesn't make me a blood thirsty savage. On the subject of hunting on horseback...are we having a Caithness boxing day hunt? (mock of course)
In any debate situation just because someone's opinion differs from your own does not make them wrong or justifies the name calling and questioning of their moral value, we should be more tollerant of opinions and not ram them down the throats of others. I personally respect those who would not participate in hunting on horseback if they feel strongly about it, but struggle to feel for the objectors who attack and prevent the hunts. The short and long of it for me is as a country person I would like to regain the right to choose, surely that is what folk want in most situations not to be told what we can and can't do? I know there is no hunt locally but if there was one I would turn out and support it and have my kids ride out with the hunt too. This doesn't make me a blood thirsty savage. On the subject of hunting on horseback...are we having a Caithness boxing day hunt? (mock of course)
I respect ur views..although I do not agree with them/,and certainly do not approve of any violence from either side while demonstrating,which has been reported /shown on tv in the past.;)
"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.
If you can't handle being called something that is an apt description, tough.
No apology will be forthcoming.
No apology will be forthcoming.
As expected.
"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.
If you can't handle being called something that is an apt description, tough.
No apology will be forthcoming.
Well very sad soul u are..one of the most rude people I have met on the org to date...........have a good night.[lol]
butterfly
21-Oct-09, 22:31
As one of these nasty men with rifles (horrid people in your words) perhaps when you hand it out then you should expect some back
"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.
If you can't handle being called something that is an apt description, tough.
No apology will be forthcoming.
Quite right Mrsk.
Originally Posted by MrsK
"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.
Well very SAID soul u are..one of the most rude people I have met on the org to date...........have a good night.[lol]
Yes Mrs K has lived up to our expectations. Very sad that she must hide behind a dictionary definition and not do the decent thing.
Yes, agreed. But let's not invoke another tirade! :eek:
Are urban foxes culled at all, and if so, how? (Haven't seen the cavalry complete with baying hounds charging down an English high street at full throttle.)
"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.
If you can't handle being called something that is an apt description, tough.
No apology will be forthcoming.
well said MrsK, very appropriate comment..
northener
22-Oct-09, 12:27
Looks like there's a few ruffled feathers on here.....must be a fox about;)
The fox population in urban areas has come about because of the easy pickings to be had. As far as 'loss of habitat' accounting for their appearance in our towns - I don't think this is a good argument. Foxes aren't daft, they'll go where the free meal is.
Talking to the older end in Caithness who have worked the land all their lives, it would appear that there has never been as many foxes in the Far North as there is now. The damage they can do to lambs can be quite substantial, however, fencing isn't a viable option in most situations because of the huge areas that would need to be covered. Not only that, foxes are quick to dig under obstacles when they need to.
As for some of the comments made on here about 'Toffs' and tight fisted farmers...well, there's nothing like a wildly inaccurate sterotype to give the ill-informed something to focus on.......
Certainly the Foxhound packs in the North of England are manly foot packs. And most of them have 'working' class' (hate to use a ridiculous 'class' description, but it fits, I suppose) roots. In the Holme and Colne Valleys of West Yorkshire, the millworkers had their own packs and were sometimes given the Saturday off so they could hunt. So hardly wealthy landowning and banking types, are they?[disgust]
Is it cruel? Personally, I'd sooner see them shot. But there y'go.
I have no problem with people being anti-foxhunting, but it's suprising how many times references to perceived wealth and status are chucked in by the Anti mob. More to do with social division and plebs having a chip on their shoulder about money and land, methinks, rather than being 'onside' with Reynard.....
BTW 'Ignoramus' isn't an insult, it's a perfectly acceptable way of describing someone who talks about a subject upon which they have little, or ill-informed, knowledge. If you speak from a position of ignorance - you are an Ignoramus. Fact.
MrsK has put up no insult, if people do not understand the meaning of a certain word, then it is hardly fair to berate the person using it, is it?
Tubthumper
22-Oct-09, 12:30
Looks like there's a few ruffled feathers on here.....must be a fox about;)
MrsK has put up no insult, if people do not understand the meaning of a certain word, then it is hardly fair to berate the person using it, is it?
What about 'Gits'?
northener
22-Oct-09, 12:39
What about 'Gits'?
My comment was regarding 'Ignoramus' as it was directed a person. I believe the 'gits' comments were just general and singled no individual out.
Anyway, I don't really care either way - too many fragile Egos on here for my liking, Tubs.
Give 'em a bit of stick and they burst into tears and become 'offended' rather than slug it out.....
...Gits:Razz
My comment was regarding 'Ignoramus' as it was directed a person. I believe the 'gits' comments were just general and singled no individual out.
Anyway, I don't really care either way - too many fragile Egos on here for my liking, Tubs.
Give 'em a bit of stick and they burst into tears and become 'offended' rather than slug it out.....
...Gits:Razz
The 'offended' bit comes in to play when as MrsK implies they have no facts to back up their prejudices.
Thank u to those who have given support........I have nothing more to say on this...the fox hunting thread is lost now .Each to their own.;)
northener
22-Oct-09, 13:03
thank u to those who have given support........i have nothing more to say on this...the fox hunting thread is lost now .each to their own.;)
qed ............
It has been proved................:roll:
I have no problem with people being anti-foxhunting, but it's suprising how many times references to perceived wealth and status are chucked in by the Anti mob. More to do with social division and plebs having a chip on their shoulder about money and land, methinks, rather than being 'onside' with Reynard.....
BTW 'Ignoramus' isn't an insult, it's a perfectly acceptable way of describing someone who talks about a subject upon which they have little, or ill-informed, knowledge. If you speak from a position of ignorance - you are an Ignoramus. Fact.
MrsK has put up no insult, if people do not understand the meaning of a certain word, then it is hardly fair to berate the person using it, is it?
Very well put Northerner - thats what I would like to have said but I doubt if I have the language skills.
zeppellin
22-Oct-09, 13:30
Tsk, tsk, tsk. All this agro and personal insults, you lot should be ashamed of yourselves. Why can't you all just agree to disagree and keep the org nice and friendly and cuddly and fluffy. This medication I'm on is making me all nicey, nicey, not many doses left though!!!!!!!!!!!
butterfly
22-Oct-09, 13:37
Thank u to those who have given support........I have nothing more to say on this....Each to their own.;)
Typical usual response.:roll:
northener
22-Oct-09, 14:39
I posted earlier about foxes going into towns for 'easy pickings' - as opposed to loss of habitat in the country - here's a bit I've copied from the excellent 'Wildlifeonline' web page regarding urban foxes that gives the real reason, fascinating:
Interaction with Humans: Foxes began living in our cities after World War I; a response (many people consider) to a change in people’s lifestyles. Stephen Harris and Phil Baker at Bristol University consider that the most likely "cause" of urban foxes was the development of once rural land after the First World War; land was built upon and, rather than moving, the foxes adapted to their new surroundings. It even seems that urban foxes are very choosey about where they live, seemingly shunning rented properties and heavy industrialized areas in favour of middle-class residential areas, with a particular penchant for suburbs with owner-occupied housing. Although foxes probably began to be noticed in our towns and cities after World War I, it wasn't until after World War II that they became commonplace
The linky for the whole page is here: http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/red_fox.html
Everything you ever wanted to know about foxes.:D
. It even seems that urban foxes are very choosey about where they live, seemingly shunning rented properties and heavy industrialized areas in favour of middle-class residential areas, with a particular penchant for suburbs with owner-occupied housing.
So it seems Mr Fox is also aware of the 'class divide' and wants nothing to do with these city plebs, and who can blame him.
Better the remains of a Fortnum's hamper in the bin than whats left of a greasy peh supper, what ?
buggyracer
22-Oct-09, 15:05
So it seems Mr Fox is also aware of the 'class divide' and wants nothing to do with these city plebs, and who can blame him.
Better the remains of a Fortnum's hamper in the bin than whats left of a greasy peh supper, what ?
ROTFL :lol: :lol:
zeppellin
22-Oct-09, 15:06
rotfl :lol: :lol:
??????? Rotfl??????
northener
22-Oct-09, 15:10
So it seems Mr Fox is also aware of the 'class divide' and wants nothing to do with these city plebs, and who can blame him.
Better the remains of a Fortnum's hamper in the bin than whats left of a greasy peh supper, what ?
:lol: Absolutely.
There's a link on the left-hand side of that page that goes to a page about hunting. The guy is anti-foxhunting, but he speaks logically and without some of the 'fluffy' emotion that seems to boil up when this topic is discussed (hunting that is, not scoffing whats left of the caviar and truffles out of the hamper). He's got his head screwed on and makes for interesting reading.
He mentioned a 'Fox Survey' due to be published in 2005...I'm off to see if I can find it.
northener
22-Oct-09, 15:15
??????? Rotfl??????
"Roll On The Floor Laughing":Razz
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