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Tubthumper
15-Oct-09, 21:55
Based on the earlier thread regarding the collapse of a prosecution, what's your opinion of the way to solve the problems of antisocial behaviour in our county?

crayola
15-Oct-09, 22:04
Polls. Drive them out of town by crushing them with polls on the Org.

If that doesn't work, cut off their orglies with a rusty knife and sell them for 5p each in Spoons. Reheat in the microwave as many times as is necessary.

Tubthumper
15-Oct-09, 22:15
You're awful harsh crayola
With your rusty knife in hand
Cutting orglies from the scumbags
Setting polls on smelly band

I won't be going to Wotherspoons
I simply cannot crave
Some erse's roasted dangly bits
Warmed up in microwave

Amy-Winehouse
15-Oct-09, 22:51
I think stopping benifits would be the right way to go !!

davie
15-Oct-09, 23:03
Imo we need a combination of 'all of the above' except #1 but with real prison time thrown in - none of this liberal namby pampy 'oot last week' nonsense.

We should also consider action against bad pome makers - McGonigle disna have a look in with some of these Sherbets poets.

tonkatojo
16-Oct-09, 00:33
I voted for the BIRCH, but would like a combination of all except KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN.

Bazeye
16-Oct-09, 00:49
Vigilante action. Just make sure youre not identified. I know this seems a bit extreme, but i honestly dont think any of the options given get the message across to these people.

Nacho
16-Oct-09, 01:34
hoods on, lets turn on them with torches and baseball bats

lets tan their windows

lets smash their 4x4 windows and poop trough their letterboxes

let them know, their scum, we all know who they are, put them on stroma and leave them to it [evil]

if i pay for their upkeep through my taxes then surely i should get a say in how these lazy degenerates are housed ... ? non ?

Bazeye
16-Oct-09, 01:38
hoods on, lets turn on them with torches and baseball bats

lets tan their windows

lets smash their 4x4 windows and poop trough their letterboxes

let them know, their scum, we all know who they are, put them on stroma and leave them to it [evil]

if i pay for their upkeep through my taxes then surely i should get a say in how these lazy degenerates are housed ... ? non ?


Something like that. ;)

Aaldtimer
16-Oct-09, 02:58
Bring back National Service.

Metalattakk
16-Oct-09, 03:36
hoods on, lets turn on them with torches and baseball bats

lets tan their windows

lets smash their 4x4 windows and poop trough their letterboxes

let them know, their scum, we all know who they are, put them on stroma and leave them to it [evil]

if i pay for their upkeep through my taxes then surely i should get a say in how these lazy degenerates are housed ... ? non ?

Non. Niet. Nada. No. You don't pay your taxes directly to them, you pay them to the Government, who then distribute them as they see fit. You have literally no say in the matter.

Carry on with your half-assed vigilante nonsense if you must, but we all know you don't have the cojones to act on your preposterous, hastily typed words.


Bring back National Service.

Yeah, that's right. Just what the Armed Forces are asking for - hundreds and hundreds of thousands of angry angst-riddled kids being foisted on them to babysit for a couple of years, just to appease reactionary idiots who think that National Service cured all the ills of the 1950s.

Let's face it, the grandparents of these ne'er-do-wells went through the National Service era too. Why didn't they teach their kids how to raise their own kids properly?

Aaldtimer
16-Oct-09, 04:29
Non. Niet. Nada. No. You don't pay your taxes directly to them, you pay them to the Government, who then distribute them as they see fit. You have literally no say in the matter.

Carry on with your half-assed vigilante nonsense if you must, but we all know you don't have the cojones to act on your preposterous, hastily typed words.



Yeah, that's right. Just what the Armed Forces are asking for - hundreds and hundreds of thousands of angry angst-riddled kids being foisted on them to babysit for a couple of years, just to appease reactionary idiots who think that National Service cured all the ills of the 1950s.



Let's face it, the grandparents of these ne'er-do-wells went through the National Service era too. Why didn't they teach their kids how to raise their own kids properly?


..."hundreds and hundreds of thousands of angry angst-riddled kids"...???

LOL. What have they to be angst ridden about...where the next GIRO is coming from?

..."Let's face it, the grandparents of these ne'er-do-wells went through the National Service era too. Why didn't they teach their kids how to raise their own kids properly?"...

They probably did, but they never expected that Maggie Thatcher would destroy their futures, and remove any hope from their lives, in revenge for her Pappa not being elected back on to Grantham's Council!
That "Bloody Woman", to quote Michael Heseltine, has, with her policies in the '80s much to blame for the state that this country is in now.
The 3 generations of unemployment which she has created has resulted in the benefit culture that we now inherit..."work"?...it's a four letter word these days!
At least a spell in the forces would give these people a reality check!

Aaldtimer
16-Oct-09, 04:39
..."Yeah, that's right. Just what the Armed Forces are asking for - hundreds and hundreds of thousands of angry angst-riddled kids being foisted on them to babysit for a couple of years, just to appease reactionary idiots who think that National Service cured all the ills of the 1950s."...

The more I read your post, the more ridiculous it sounds.
National Service was introduced to fight a war.
"Ills of the 50s"?..Puhleese?[disgust]

Gronnuck
16-Oct-09, 07:49
Bring back National Service.

[disgust] Classic silly response from someone who knows nothing about the military.
Do you really think the military have nothing better to do right now than to try to sort out the ills of society?
In case you haven't noticed they have been particularly busy over the last 15-16 years. :confused
Our servicemen and women need to know that the person standing beside them is as well trained, as commited, as courageous as they are. There is no room for doubt when you're being shot at. ;)

Mrs Bucket
16-Oct-09, 08:16
Name them shame them tattoo their foreheads and stop their benefits. If they were working enforced or otherwise they would probable be too tired to carry on like they do.

Amy-Winehouse
16-Oct-09, 08:34
Non. Niet. Nada. No. You don't pay your taxes directly to them, you pay them to the Government, who then distribute them as they see fit. You have literally no say in the matter.

Carry on with your half-assed vigilante nonsense if you must, but we all know you don't have the cojones to act on your preposterous, hastily typed words.



Yeah, that's right. Just what the Armed Forces are asking for - hundreds and hundreds of thousands of angry angst-riddled kids being foisted on them to babysit for a couple of years, just to appease reactionary idiots who think that National Service cured all the ills of the 1950s.

Let's face it, the grandparents of these ne'er-do-wells went through the National Service era too. Why didn't they teach their kids how to raise their own kids properly?


You dont have the misfortune to live in amongst these scumballs though Metalattak , we unfortunatly , have to suffer it. Luckilly for me I now live on th Wick side which means I only see the pondlife when Im down town on a Thursday or Friday walking by the courthouse, even then I find it intimidating sometimes as do many other Wickers + we shouldnt have to.
We work, pay taxes they do nothing offer nothing to society but scummyness- National service wouldnt help in these cases as they dont want to be helped-why would they when they have money for doing nothing from the social & boy are they milking it

upolian
16-Oct-09, 08:51
put them all on an island and leave them be,alot of people are intimidated by these thugs,if you bite back you get prosecuted,you just cant win! it's a shame people dont feel comfortable knowing these people are around,something need to be done about it!

Tubthumper
16-Oct-09, 08:58
lets smash their 4x4 windows and poop trough their letterboxes
The 'Proceeds of Crime' act permits the state to recover dosh which has been acquired illegally. If these hobos can afford to run 4x4s without earning money and paying tax, then (a) they should have their benefits cut (b) they have been earning illegally and should be charged, or (c) they're at the theiving. In any case, money should be recovered and charges presented. Oh and their 4x4s confiscated.
Make these bums look like bums.

golach
16-Oct-09, 09:01
Bring back National Service.

A sensible post in my opinion


Classic silly response from someone who knows nothing about the military.

a Stupid Post in my opinion!!
Who do you think fought in the Korean War for the UK, and fought the communists in Malaysia....the National Servicemen ...thats who.


On the other hand I do agree it would be difficult to train todays youngsters, In the National Service days we had respect for authority, as such when the CPO or RSM said jump, we did, if not we bore the consequences. I do not think that would work these days sadly.

brandy
16-Oct-09, 09:10
as far as the national service goes, well military at all really. my hubby and i both have very dif. opinions. the other day Sam said when he grew up he wanted to be a solider. a tiny piece of me leapt in joy while another part quivered in fear. Hubby however was Nope.. Nadda, i dont want them in the military. it was the parent in him... not my child.
we spoke about it and i told him that i would be proud of the kids if they ever joined the forces. that no one wanted their children to join the military and go off to war, but that to have a military it had to be done.
im not ancient by any means. ive never lived thru a war on home ground. ive not had to deal with husbands and sons being sent off to war.
however, i was raised with uncles and grandfathers that served.
was always taught how it made men out of boys.
i see nothing wrong with boys going into the service.
i would like to see a basic training thing that kids have to go thru.
if they are fit and able put them thru the hard training and give them an education on what the real world is like.
lets face it , its not all sunshine and x-boxes.
they think they are all that and a bag of chips, when at the end of the day they are not.
wont work for everyone, but it could turn around a lot of lives.


just re-read post and wanted to add no im not sexist.. it works for girls as well as boys..

MR_A
16-Oct-09, 09:21
Why give these filth the tools needed to do even more harm?

Gronnuck
16-Oct-09, 09:21
On the other hand I do agree it would be difficult to train todays youngsters, In the National Service days we had respect for authority, as such when the CPO or RSM said jump, we did, if not we bore the consequences. I do not think that would work these days sadly.

:D These days rigorous military training has to be tempered with 'uuman rights' legislation and 'elf 'n safety' so the whole process has to be much more sophisticated than it once was.
Where once the CPO or RSM said, "Jump!" we responded with, "How far!" Now the CPO or RSM would have to carry out a risk assessment and table an agenda for discussion about the merits of such a jump. :roll:
While I accept the valuable contribution made by National Servicemen during the 1950's and into the early 60's. It has to be said that today's military is a very different organisation. ;)

Tubthumper
16-Oct-09, 09:31
:D These days rigorous military training has to be tempered with 'uuman rights' legislation and 'elf 'n safety' so the whole process has to be much more sophisticated than it once was.
Where once the CPO or RSM said, "Jump!" we responded with, "How far!" Now the CPO or RSM would have to carry out a risk assessment and table an agenda for discussion about the merits of such a jump. :roll:
While I accept the valuable contribution made by National Servicemen during the 1950's and into the early 60's. It has to be said that today's military is a very different organisation. ;)
Even with the regulations we have today, they still manage to provide a decent service to the country, only now they do it without killing or abusing too many of our own soldiers and sailors.
Let's face it - The bums we're talking about here couldn't hack it in the army or navy. They aren't worth anything to anyone.

upolian
16-Oct-09, 10:21
They aren't worth anything to anyone.

well said :p

brandy
16-Oct-09, 10:25
excepts the uber pc gov.

Humerous Vegetable
16-Oct-09, 11:14
The 'Proceeds of Crime' act permits the state to recover dosh which has been acquired illegally. If these hobos can afford to run 4x4s without earning money and paying tax, then (a) they should have their benefits cut (b) they have been earning illegally and should be charged, or (c) they're at the theiving. In any case, money should be recovered and charges presented. Oh and their 4x4s confiscated.
Make these bums look like bums.

I'm sorry - I thought this was a thread about MPs' expenses.....I wonder how much these people are influenced by the role models provided by our MPs, MSPs, councillors and those parasites in the House of Lords, all creaming the system just like the benefit fraudsters, but on a larger scale. If their parents aren't providing a good example, who else are they going to look to?

Tubthumper
16-Oct-09, 11:31
I'm sorry - I thought this was a thread about MPs' expenses.....I wonder how much these people are influenced by the role models provided by our MPs, MSPs, councillors and those parasites in the House of Lords, all creaming the system just like the benefit fraudsters, but on a larger scale. If their parents aren't providing a good example, who else are they going to look to?
Hahaha. I doubt the bums we're talking about here could even spell MSP.
However, laugh as we might our MPs, MSPs etc are actually providing some form of service in return for the money they receive.
We're not talking those who actually need and deserve the benefits they receive, we're discussing the drunken, drug-taking, ignorant, classroom disturbing, endlessly reproducing, care-nothing, nasty, 4x4 driving, beating people up lowlifes who are wrecking our county through anti social behaviour.

upolian
16-Oct-09, 11:33
are you lot suggesting people that drive 4x4's are thugs?bit harsh isnt it? no i dont own 1 so no im not on the defensive

davie
16-Oct-09, 11:36
Now lookee here - I drive a 4 x 4 (a Ken & Barbie model according to some) and I am heading into e toon now to cash my Giro via Sherbets so just watch it - right !

upolian
16-Oct-09, 11:38
Now lookee here - I drive a 4 x 4 (a Ken & Barbie model according to some) and I am heading into e toon now to cash my Giro via Sherbets so just watch it - right !


ive got a hoody baseball bat + free day can i come ?

Tubthumper
16-Oct-09, 11:43
If the Burberry cap fits...
I must admit I'm sceptical about the 4x4 part. I can barely afford to run my one, so I can't see how someone permanently on the dole could manage it.

upolian
16-Oct-09, 11:49
If the Burberry cap fits...
I must admit I'm sceptical about the 4x4 part. I can barely afford to run my one, so I can't see how someone permanently on the dole could manage it.

im assuming this is a personal attack?not every thug owns a 4x4 just somebody in wick?

Bazeye
16-Oct-09, 11:55
If the Burberry cap fits...
I must admit I'm sceptical about the 4x4 part. I can barely afford to run my one, so I can't see how someone permanently on the dole could manage it.

Thieving? Selling drugs?

upolian
16-Oct-09, 11:56
Thieving? Selling drugs?

family?well of friends?

Tubthumper
16-Oct-09, 12:20
im assuming this is a personal attack?not every thug owns a 4x4 just somebody in wick?
It was a 'pick any of the following' list, thugs can select their own particular combination of undesirable attributes.
And no it's not a personal attack, and not just directed at Wick. You got a problem like?

pink25
16-Oct-09, 12:24
ive got a hoody baseball bat + free day can i come ?

And this isnt a joke either

davie
16-Oct-09, 13:53
Mein Gott - can we not have a little humour on the .org

Aaldtimer
16-Oct-09, 13:57
Classic silly response from someone who knows nothing about the military.
Do you really think the military have nothing better to do right now than to try to sort out the ills of society?
In case you haven't noticed they have been particularly busy over the last 15-16 years.
Our servicemen and women need to know that the person standing beside them is as well trained, as commited, as courageous as they are. There is no room for doubt when you're being shot at.

I suppose the nine years I spent in the forces as an adult volunteer doesn't qualify me then?[disgust]

Metalattakk
16-Oct-09, 16:29
I suppose the nine years I spent in the forces as an adult volunteer doesn't qualify me then?[disgust]

And that makes it all the more amazing that you would advocate such preposterous, unworkable and unmanageable measures.

I would have thought you, of all people, might have had an inkling - the merest iota of a smidgeon of an idea, if you will - of the logistical and ethical minefield that your proposal seems to be stampeding blindly right through.

But no, all you want is to revert to tired old knee-jerk Daily Mail headlines.

Compulsory National Service can not work. The Forces don't want it, the riotous assembly on the street-corners don't want it, most of the general voting populace don't want it and therefore none of the major political parties want it.

Simply saying 'make them do National Service' is a particularly short-sighted response, and smacks to me as the words of an old man who went through NS himself, and can't understand why everyone else since doesn't have to do the same.

"If it was good enough for me, then it's good enough for them...harrumph."

Utter nonsense.

Aaldtimer
16-Oct-09, 16:37
..."the words of an old man who went through NS himself"... wrong MA!

What is it about the words "adult volunteer" that you don't understand.
NS had gone by the time I joined up in 1967.

..."the riotous assembly on the street-corners don't want it"...aw, poor things!
I think that makes it all the more reason to give 'em it.:)

P.S. I've never bought a Daily Mail in my life!

davie
16-Oct-09, 16:44
Must agree with Metallatakk - Compulsory Nat Service will not work for the dregs of today's society. As they find ways round the benefit rules they would find ways to work their ticket. To even think of foisting these scum on professional soldiers shows little or no respect for our Armed Forces.
I only did six years with the colours - not as an adult volunteer whatever that is. Am I qualified to comment ?

Metalattakk
16-Oct-09, 16:49
"the riotous assembly on the street-corners don't want it"...aw, poor things!
I think that makes it all the more reason to give 'em it.:)

Even though everyone else doesn't want it too, including the Forces themselves?

Even though there is no evidence whatsoever that it would work? At all?

Your whole argument is based around base instincts - why not just cut bits off them until they 'learn' to behave? :roll:

Hello? The 16th century just called and wants its fruit cake back.

Gronnuck
16-Oct-09, 16:55
Aaldtimer - Your nine years will have taught you the value of team spirit, camaraderie and loyalty. Attributes gained through rigorous training and shared experiences good and bad. The end result might have been that you were ready to stand shoulder to shoulder with your mates to tackle whatever task needed doing.
If you think that some of the feckless 'yooff' we have been talking about here could gain these same attributes and be part of a close knit team I think you might be deluding yourself.

Aaldtimer
16-Oct-09, 16:57
Of course you are qualified to comment Davie, anyone is.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion...or so I've heard!;)

I have the highest respect for our Armed Forces, and the difficult job they have on their hands, but I do remember the "awkward squad", who thought they had joined up for the easy life, being turned around in Basic Training with a bit of discipline, training, cammeraderie and ending up as useful citizens at the end of it.
There was always the exceptions of course...but they were then tossed out.
Adult Volunteers, I suppose, was what we were called to distinguish us from those NS fellahs that had stayed in after their 2 years were up.
At least that's how I interpreted it.:confused

Aaldtimer
16-Oct-09, 16:58
Aaldtimer - Your nine years will have taught you the value of team spirit, camaraderie and loyalty. Attributes gained through rigorous training and shared experiences good and bad. The end result might have been that you were ready to stand shoulder to shoulder with your mates to tackle whatever task needed doing.
If you think that some of the feckless 'yooff' we have been talking about here could gain these same attributes and be part of a close knit team I think you might be deluding yourself.

Hope springs eternal!...

EDDIE
16-Oct-09, 17:06
I voted for the BIRCH, but would like a combination of all except KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN.

I would love to see the birch been use i bet it would cut crime.
Imagine if they intruduced the birch in to the prisons were every one got the birch every monday morning as part of there punishment for being in prison i bet the would deter a lot of people lol

redeyedtreefrog
16-Oct-09, 17:11
Employ "Chav-Hunters". They'd get paid £30 or so for every tracksuit-wearing, cigarette-smoking Buckfast-drinking hoodie they capture. Bit like the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang but luring them with the promise of getting them vodka from the off-license down the road.

Leanne
16-Oct-09, 17:14
What's Buckfast?

davie
16-Oct-09, 17:18
What's Buckfast?

Dunno - something to do with rabbits I think.

Leanne
16-Oct-09, 17:25
Dunno - something to do with rabbits I think.

The ann summers type I take it then ;)

brandy
16-Oct-09, 18:10
ohhh if we are getting really old fashioned lets bring out the stocks.. put them out in front of spoons and have a pile of rotting veg sitting near by... everyone caught vandalising, reaking havoc, breech of peace ect... can have a day in the stocks... not only is justice served but the entertainment value alone! *G* we would be killing two birds with one stone
1: the nothing to do in wick.. im bored
2: lets do something with the hoodlums.. *rotfl*
sorry just had the image in my head!

maverick
16-Oct-09, 18:41
Even with the regulations we have today, they still manage to provide a decent service to the country, only now they do it without killing or abusing too many of our own soldiers and sailors.
Let's face it - The bums we're talking about here couldn't hack it in the army or navy. They aren't worth anything to anyone.

I am sure that they could be used for target practise on the ranges??

Vistravi
16-Oct-09, 21:10
Why didn't they teach their kids how to raise their own kids properly?

Have you see how some people are with their kids now and then? The parents had no idea and therefore didn't install the right values and principles into their child's upbringing. It is a problem that is in every generation.

I'm not saying that everyone does this only some people. Parenting is a hard business and you have to have a healthy balance. Back in the 50s kids were oppressed and then they rebeled and did alot of daft and stupid things. Now some parents are generally too soft and the kids run amok or just don't know what the word no means.

Children have got to be taught respect and they have to be respected for the choices they make as a child and a teen. Children who are dicated through life by parents but mostly teachers can find life outside school in the real world harsh as they have to think for themselves.

You have to teach children the things you value and what will make them a well rounded person. If you don't teach them then they can't be blamed for the way they turn out. This can be as basic as telling a child that when he/she says "i want" to get something that they won't get it. And by telling them to ask nicely and they will get it is a small but important step. When you show them respect they respect you! It's that simple!

If what i've said has offended anyone i do apologise. It is only my opinion and what i see as a general over the decades.

upolian
16-Oct-09, 21:39
Mein Gott - can we not have a little humour on the .org


i was thinking the exact same[lol]

squidge
16-Oct-09, 21:42
Wouldnt the best place to look be at the people who HAVE changed their behaviour? There are still people who reform after being violent or anti social sometimes its by facing up to what they do. We need to look at these people and see what it was that made them change their behaviour and use that to inform us as to what to do next.

Vistravi is right though these people you are all talking about werent born bad, lazy, wicked, or a thief - something made them that way. What was it? Their parents? family? The attitude of others around them to thier family and themselves? School? unemployment? Lack of discipline? Lack of respect? The poster who talked about the 80s setting down the foundations for the trouble we are having now was pretty much right too - NO one cares. I had several occasions to tell one laddie being mentioned on another thread what was what during his early teens. He never caused me any trouble for giving him a row. i sent him away with a flea in his ear several times and never got a brick through my window or my tyres slashed. I knew though that the writing was pretty much on the wall for this boy from an early age. Did anyone try to do something to change that? I dont think i did - did any of yous? He is old enough now to be responsible for his own actions of course but we have to wonder was there something anyone could have done years ago that would have changed things? and if it would have worked why arent we doing it and if it wouldnt have worked - why not?

Stavro
16-Oct-09, 22:08
Aaldtimer -
If you think that some of the feckless 'yooff' we have been talking about here could gain these same attributes and be part of a close knit team I think you might be deluding yourself.

These violent, mindless thugs know that the chances of being punished are practically zero. Violent offenders simply repeat their violence. They blame everything, but themselves.
I've read of victims who have had to defend themselves and the victims end up being the criminals. Justice?

Aaldtimer
17-Oct-09, 02:51
..." Back in the 50s kids were oppressed and then they rebeled and did alot of daft and stupid things."...

Vistravi, I certainly never felt oppressed in the 50s when I was growing up!
I had a mother who would clip me round the ear for any cheek/misdemeanour, and a father who could wither me with just a look...it was called discipline! No problem.
It was also the age of Rock'nRoll, the Beat generation and such an exciting time to live! Then came the 60s!:lol:

Leanne
17-Oct-09, 10:01
Then came the 60s!:lol:

I blame it on the permissive 60s too. The children born in the 60s were shown less discipline than previous generations which they have precipitated to the teens of today (their children). Hardly surprising really :(

brandy
17-Oct-09, 12:38
good thing i was born in the late 70's then *G*

Leanne
17-Oct-09, 12:41
good thing i was born in the late 70's then *G*
Me too. My mum was born in the late 50s so was still too young when all the 60s stuff was happening. Her parents were quite strict with her and she has been strict with me - as a result I consider myself to be a good, respectful citizen :)

golach
17-Oct-09, 12:48
I blame it on the permissive 60s too. The children born in the 60s were shown less discipline than previous generations which they have precipitated to the teens of today (their children). Hardly surprising really :(
I was married in the 60's, brought up in the 40/50's when the Tawes was still in force at the school, never did me any harm, my sons were also born in the 60's, and I can tell you, they were not shown any favours by me, they were brought up in the fashion my father brought up me and my siblings. Where his word was the law, and woe betide any of us who defied him, punishment was always sharp but short.
My laddies were not angels in any way, but I have never had any regrets on how they turned out, both have responsible jobs, both married lassies, I get on with, well most of the time [lol] I am proud of my boys, but I do think they are soft with their own children
I blame the 70's & 80's parents, and the introduction of the do gooders, banning corporal punishment and the like, you canna raise your voice to a kid these days far less your hand. Mankind has gone to hell in a handcart

Kenn
17-Oct-09, 13:03
Sorry to disagree leanne but the permissive 60's has been blamed far too much.
I was there, had great time and it taught me to open my mind to the world, it did not however stop me from bringing my children up to be responsible, tolerant adults although my approach differed wildly from that of my parents.
Both myself and my OH took the time to explain why certain behaviour was not acceptable and gave reasoned arguements to support our case.
I would question the modern attitude where "The Must Haves," mean that both parents are struggling to cope with work and the provision of goods and have neither the time or the energy to spend quality time with their children or to supervise them in a way that would mean they appreciate society rather than being left to their own devices.

squidge
17-Oct-09, 13:09
Well i was born in the 60s and had plenty of discipline and structure - I went on to to pass that onto my boys and will do the same with the wee ones.
The Bruce is somewhat younger than me (ahem ;)) and so was born in the 70s. I am already finding out that he is a man of strict boundaries for the children - very loving but see if he says no then its no and absolutley no chance of getting around him. I think the reasons for the rise in anti social behaviour are somewhat more complex than the age we live in. I dont have any answers but i think some of the reasons include -

- the decline of the influence of the church.. Now this is NOT about beleiving in God folks but During the early part of the 20th century the church was an important part of being "respectable". More people went to church, more children went to sunday school and respectability and good behaviour was seen as important and this was supported by the teaching of the church. It wasnt always a good thing but there was a sense of shame if you misbehaved and whilst i wouldnt return to those days i think its declining influence has contributed to the decline in behaviour in society.

- the decline of the extended family ... this has meant that there is little or no support for families having problems with their children. Where there is an extended family structure then there is always someone to "put you right" of your little darling is an absolute trouble causer. There was always an uncle aunty granny cousin who wouldtake the wee one in hand and help out with discipline. These extended families mostly dont exist any more and so if a parent cant control a child then who are they to turn to.

The lack of "society" No one cares, no one acts, no one sees children as a collective responsibility any more - they are just trouble, a nuisance to be slagged off at every available opportunity, children growing up in the 50s were the hope of the nation, children growing up today are the dregs of society if you beleive everything you read.

Add to this the fear of smacking your children, the availability and downgrading of sex so that its just another commodity, the increase of consumerism and the me me me attitude we saw in the 80s and so on and so on and so on and why are we surprised?

Stavro
17-Oct-09, 13:13
Many have who been brought up in loving, caring, families still run amok! Doesn't make any difference if it's part of their character. :roll:

squidge
17-Oct-09, 13:19
Children are not born bad or wicked or evil, they learn bad behaviour and how to manipulate people and what they can get away with as they grow from families, friends and others. I was once told if you lose a good boy at 11 to a "bad lot" you may never get your good boy back! As a parent you can only give them the framework to make good decisions but you can instill into them a sense of their own value and help them to respect themselves. These are some of the tools they will need to weather the pressures they will find in their life

tonkatojo
17-Oct-09, 13:27
Many have who been brought up in loving, caring, families still run amok! Doesn't make any difference if it's part of their character. :roll:

Some times the loving caring factor can be the cause, some people cannot see or acknowledge that their offspring can do wrong, and if there is no discipline from them or the courts what chance do they have in society.

Leanne
17-Oct-09, 15:31
I blame the 70's & 80's parents, and the introduction of the do gooders, banning corporal punishment and the like, you canna raise your voice to a kid these days far less your hand. Mankind has gone to hell in a handcart

But who taught these values to them - their parents that were born in the 60s... There was a huge social revoultion and today's society is the result.

Of course not everyone turned out bad :) Permissive society though made for a gradual reduction in discipline and a change in peoples' views as to what was acceptable. This view change has developed to the point where society's structure has started to break down towards the edges. It only takes a few to create a whole lot of chaos - even if the rest of us tow the line :~(

highland red
17-Oct-09, 16:36
I voted for the BIRCH, but would like a combination of all except KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN.

Strangely, there is no record of anyone having been "birched" twice. Sounds like it just might work!!;)

Stavro
17-Oct-09, 16:40
Permissive society though made for a gradual reduction in discipline and a change in peoples' views as to what was acceptable. This view change has developed to the point where society's structure has started to break down towards the edges.


This is definitely true.

highland red
17-Oct-09, 16:45
I don't think National Service is really the answer. Let's face it the real "scumbags" NEVER did National Service as it was too much like hard work.
Don't forget a lot of these miscreants had devised ways to steal/defraud from their fellow men and profit in the form of the black market in wartime Britain

How long were the Krays in The Army? Not too long I'm sure.

They really do need a good "slap" as the only thing that bullies understand is bigger bullies.;)

Leanne
17-Oct-09, 17:44
This is definitely true.

Stavro are you feeling OK? That is twice you have agreed with me in one day :eek: Are you sure you haven't been abducted by the aliens in the other thread????

Stavro
17-Oct-09, 20:56
Stavro are you feeling OK? That is twice you have agreed with me in one day :eek: Are you sure you haven't been abducted by the aliens in the other thread????


I am very touched by your concern, Leanne, thank you. Rest assured that the nasty aliens would have no effect upon me with my anti-abduction, patent-pending helmet, except to try and scramble my mind by repetitive comments.

I said, except to try and scramble my mind by repetitive comments.

:)