Biting Dogs

[jac1791]

what will it take in wick for something to be done about dogs that bite.

my 13 yr old was bitten yesterday by a staffie that was on a lead with its owner, the dog has bitten twice before that i know of - last friday being one - lady needed hospital treatment. police says the dog jumped playfully and nipped my daughter -- well if ur lower arm with bruising and teeth make is a nip i must have been mistaken all my life to believe this as a bite. having 2 big dogs myself i am well aware of a dog playing or being aggresive, just hope this does not put my daughter off dogs!!!

today she getting greif at school, that if the dog is distroyed then my daughter will get a kicking ....

[poppett]

How awful for your daughter to be injured in the first place, then bullied about it in school. What is this sick world coming to? Hope your daughter makes a speedy recovery and the bullies are dealt with appropriately.

[WickWitch]

How awful for her and for you. I hope that she recovers quickly.

[Tubthumper]

Maybe it's the kids who are threatening to give her a kicking that need put down... do the world a favour?

[katarina]

that's awful. There are so many staffies around now. they are usually lovely dogs with people, but vicious with other dogs if they are not socialised properly when puppies. however ANY dog that bites should be muzzled, even if it is just a playful nip. Maybe next time the bite will be serious enough that the dog WILL be have to be put down. Hope the owners take note.

[Tugmistress]

some may think me a bit harsh, but if it were my dog that had bitten a child - and this sounds like a bite - then i would have no hesitation in putting it to sleep as much as i love my dogs. as for your daughter being threatened at school then again this needs bringing to the attention of the police.
i sincerely hope that this does not put her off dogs and that she recovers quickly from her ordeal and that the bullying and threatening behaviour of these other 'animals' is stopped.

[BINBOB]

Maybe it's the kids who are threatening to give her a kicking that need put down... do the world a favour?

Good one....I agree.;)

[arana negra]

Firstly sorry to hear your girl has been bitten I hope she is recovers well from her ordeal. I also hope the school deals appropriatrely with these other children.

Secondly, I am amazed that the police took that line, dimissing a dog bite as playful especially from a breed on the dangerous dogs list.

Thirdly I had a dog of mine put down for biting my eldest son on the leg, it broke through the skin. Dogs that bite should be put down.

[grandma]

some may think me a bit harsh, but if it were my dog that had bitten a child - and this sounds like a bite - then i would have no hesitation in putting it to sleep as much as i love my dogs. as for your daughter being threatened at school then again this needs bringing to the attention of the police.
i sincerely hope that this does not put her off dogs and that she recovers quickly from her ordeal and that the bullying and threatening behaviour of these other 'animals' is stopped.

Totally agree.

[changilass]

Go back to the police and say you want to take this further.

Go to the school and see teacher about the bullying - if they wont do owt go to the police about this as well.

Dogs that bite should be put down.

[jac1791]

thx for all your comments - at least now i know im not just being an over protective mum.

i have 2 big dogs - if one o them even snaped me then i would not hesitate to put it down.

[redeyedtreefrog]

Maybe it's the kids who are threatening to give her a kicking that need put down... do the world a favour?

Not a bad plan

[cuddlepop]

If a dog bites someone,especially a child a sensible owner should put their dog down.
I know I've had to do it in the past and it was awful.:~(

[NickInTheNorth]

Go back to the police ask to speak to the senior officer in the station and state that if you cannot you wish to make a formal complaint.

Also contact the dog warden they have a statutory duty to deal with dangerous dogs as do the police. Any dog that has bitten someone is dangerous.

Contact the school report the bullying and the circumstances that have led to the bullying. If they will not take any action ask to see the anti bullying policy and then ask them to act in accordance with it (it will include taking action over this sort of bullying). Also report the bullying to the police and make the schoo, aware that you are doing so.

Instances such as this are perpetuated because people do not persue them correctly.

If there is proof that the dog has bitten people three times then the courts should order it's destruction.

[Thumper]

I agree go back to the police immediately and tell them you want this taken further and also tell them about the threats made to your child at school,let the school know as well as this is typical "bullying" the parents of the children should be ashamed of themselves for a)allowing a dog to bite a child and b) for letting their children take this matter into a playground! I hate to make harsh judgements but it sounds as though this family make their own rules and if not taken into account for this who knows what will happen the next time-and there WILL be a next time! x

[Stefan]

If a dog bites someone,especially a child a sensible owner should put their dog down.
I know I've had to do it in the past and it was awful.:~(

I totally agree. Dogs who bite should be put down.

I was in that situation once and my daughter begged me not to put our dog down. She was the one who got bitten.
After careful consideration I went with her wish but told her that if the dog ever bit again there would be no turning back, he would have to be destroyed.

I first thought I made a mistake but feared that my daughter would feel guilty for the dog having to die. Being 10 at the time I didn't want her to suffer any trauma. She loved the dog. First thing she said after she got bitten was "Oh, no that was my fault, don't shout at him."

She had wandered about with a stick, swinging it about next to our new puppy. She told me that the dog was growling at her but she ignored it although she knew better. We believe our dog was protecting the puppy. He is a staffie cross, deaf, and he was never socialised as a puppy, but he was still a friendly dog with people, just not good with other dogs. We got him at 5 month and had to teach him that dogs don't stand on kitchen tables and steal childrens cereals whilst they are eating.... He learned quickly and has never even nipped. He was 6 when he bit our daughter and hasn't nipped or bitten since. He is now 8.

As a precaution I muzzled him when the younger children were about. He accepted it without any problems. He even seemed relieved that he didn't have to guard the puppy any more and just went to his bed or out in the garden to sleep in the sun when he got muzzled. I stopped it when our puppy was a year old and overtook our staffie cross in the ranking order.

If any of my dogs would bite a stranger whilst out on a walk I don't think I would hesitate.
Unfortunately some breeds use their teeth easier than others but injuring strangers in the streets. No. That just can't happen.

I was in a very difficult situation and really hope he will never bite again. If he had bitten me he would have been put down. If my daughter would have been upset and scared of the dog he would have been put down. It was only her who convinced me to give him a chance.

He is a very friendly dog with people and will great anybody happily without using his teeth. He will nip other dogs sometimes and has left she odd scratch on our puppy, who has done the same in return. They are both staffie crosses and I must agree that they use their teeth on each other more readily than any other breed.

Biting humans is a complete different story. Some good advice from previous posters. Can you get in touch with other people who got bitten by the dog? I am not suggesting that the dog has to be put down straight away but at the very least he should have to wear a muzzle in public.

Often it is the owners fault. A responsible owner would muzzle the dog as a precaution when out in public straight after the first incident.

As a dog behaviourist I know there is a reason why the dog is biting, which is 100% the owners fault. Even staffies don't bite without any good reason and if they are just playing and being too rough, well, then the owner is responsible to prevent any injuries.

I hope your daughter will recover soon. Explain to her that the dog who hurt her is an exception and that you will go into school and stop the bullying. Children should not be afraid of dogs, but they also shouldn't just touch dogs in the street. Most dogs are friendly enough but even those can have a bad day, feel under the weather or are simply frightened of a passing lorry and growl or nip... after all dogs are animals and us such will always be a little bit unpredictable.

[Mrs Bucket]

Go back to the police ask to speak to the senior officer in the station and state that if you cannot you wish to make a formal complaint.

Also contact the dog warden they have a statutory duty to deal with dangerous dogs as do the police. Any dog that has bitten someone is dangerous.

Contact the school report the bullying and the circumstances that have led to the bullying. If they will not take any action ask to see the anti bullying policy and then ask them to act in accordance with it (it will include taking action over this sort of bullying). Also report the bullying to the police and make the schoo, aware that you are doing so.

Instances such as this are perpetuated because people do not persue them correctly.

If there is proof that the dog has bitten people three times then the courts should order it's destruction.


Not everyone is strong enough to see things through as they should. I am speaking from experience. The police can be very dismissive and make you feel that you are in the wrong even when you are not. .Is there anyone out there who could support this family (if necessary) effectively handle both these issues. Too many things get swept under the carpet as it is often the easiest option

[Allsorts]

My son was bitten by a friend's dog while in her house. He had only just turned 1 and was leaning against the sofa at the other end of the room from the dog. The dog just suddenly run from one end to the other and bite him badly on the face. There was no food involved or anything it was totally unprovoked.

I thought my friend would have put her dog down, it was a horrendous bite that has left scaring on a young child. She didn't and when we went to the police to make a complaint they said they would put it down in case someone else complained about the same dog.

This dog did it again while a child was playing and the dog was being walked. I felt so guilty that I hadn't pushed more to get the dog put down. I honestly thought my friend would have put her dog down as i know I could never trust it again. I would certainly do it if my dog ever bite someone.

[ber219]

Firstly I just want to say what a terrible thing to happen, I am so sorry and hopefully your daughter recovers and it doesn't put her off dogs. As for the kids in the school, they really need to be reported this is not acceptable.

Onto another subject and that is people blaming the dogs, it is not the dogs fault it is the people that own them and that don't know how to control/train them.

We have 4 staffies, all very well bred and very very well trained that are terrified of their own shadow, in fact one of them, the male actually, got attacked by a rhodesian ridgeback and never even retaliated (spelling?) he just wanted to get away and hide behind my mum out of the way.

It just goes to show that again far too many people jump on the band wagon of "oh they are a dangerous dog it's in their nature" no it is not in the dogs nature, if you mistreat a dog, don't train it correctly of course it is going to pick up very bad habbits and if it is allowed to get away with nipping etc and not trained not to do it of course they will carry on doing it.

Also for note Staffordshire Bull Terriers are not on the Dangerous Dogs list, American Pit Bulls are and often people mistake Staffies for Pitbulls, I know it has happened on a number of occasions with us where people have had a right go about us having them when clearly they don't have a right to say anything as they obviously don't know their breed of dog very well.

I love dogs and I am not scared of any dog apart from German Shephards, there is just something in their eyes, I had a bit of an experience with one once it just growled and jumped to attack but this was because the owner just could not control it and it did not listen to the owner in the slightest, I have met other German Shephards that are very well trained and don't have a problem with them but I keep them at a distance now after that one particular dog.

Anyway, that is my rant over and really really hope the little girl is not worried at all by dogs in the future and that those spiteful little children in the school are dealt with.

[ShelleyCowie]

Im a pet lover and i agree with people, agressive dogs should be put down.

The dog is a threat to anyone. Especially children who are less able to defend themselves or get a dog off if it wont let go.

Bullying is disgraceful. As people have stated do go back to the police about the dog and act on the bullying.

Really sorry to hear about this happening to your daughter. i hope things can get sorted soon.

[ett23]

My son was bitten by a friend's dog while in her house. He had only just turned 1 and was leaning against the sofa at the other end of the room from the dog. The dog just suddenly run from one end to the other and bite him badly on the face. There was no food involved or anything it was totally unprovoked.

I thought my friend would have put her dog down, it was a horrendous bite that has left scaring on a young child. She didn't and when we went to the police to make a complaint they said they would put it down in case someone else complained about the same dog.

This dog did it again while a child was playing and the dog was being walked. I felt so guilty that I hadn't pushed more to get the dog put down. I honestly thought my friend would have put her dog down as i know I could never trust it again. I would certainly do it if my dog ever bite someone.

It's awful isn't it how some people take biting so lightly (especially when it's their dog and somebody else's child involved). My friend's son had his ear almost ripped off by a labrador and nothing was ever done about it. It was totally unprovoked. The young lad was only 4 at the time and the dog came round sniffing him then nipped him on the hand. He started crying and then the dog lunged for him, pinning him to the ground and proceeded to maul his ear. He had such a grip and wouldn't let go. They kicked and kicked and eventually the dog released him. Poor lad ended up in Raigmore and it took weeks for his ear to heal and he's badly scarred. Being a boy it's much worse too - if it was a girl she could have long hair to cover the ear. Still despite this horrific attack the family say the dog has never done anything like this before and are confident he never will - hence they refuse to have it put down!!! [evil] There's something not right when you'd rather keep an animal alive as opposed to a human!! :eek:

[AfternoonDelight]

Our next door neighbours got a Staffie puppy about six months ago and it was the cutest little thing - I used to pat it over the wall. It gets the run of the garden but now that it's a good bit bigger I won't touch it because its freindly nips have turned into full on bites.

My other neighbour has been bitten by it and sometimes I see it out running about in the street - I've gone to the neighbours door but they don't seem that bothered.

Just the other day their granddaughter was out in the garden playing with it, she must be about five years old, and she came over and showed me marks on her hand and her leg. I asked her what they were and she told me the dog had bitten her. I didn't know whether or not to believe it because they didn't really look like bite marks - until two minutes later she started kicking the dog for no reason...

I told her that was a bad thing to do and her reply was "everyone kicks her"... It's no wonder the blooming dog bites then! [evil]

[BalmoreSSPCA]

If anyone has any concerns about the welfare of any animal in Caithness or Sutherland then please let the Scottish SPCA know about it. Tel:- 01847861386. They cannot do anything about it if they are not told about it. Of course you can remain anonymous and everything is treated in the strictest of confidence. If you dont want to leave the details at the local Centre then use the the scottish spca animal helpline:- Tel:- 03000 999 999. Thank you

[jac1791]

I spoke to Anne the dog warden yesterday, she was so helpful said the dog should be muzzeled when out. this dog bit a lady last friday and she required hospital treatment, and a bin man, and a paper boy - and thats the only the ones i have heard of. i called the police back- spoke to a sargent who was also more helpful and he looking into the dogs history, so hopefully something might happen.
as for my daughter, she is fine but I dont think she will ever go near a staffy again which is a shame as not all staffies are like this, all dogs have the ability to bit but as someone has already said its the owners not the dogs!

[cuddlepop]

I spoke to Anne the dog warden yesterday, she was so helpful said the dog should be muzzeled when out. this dog bit a lady last friday and she required hospital treatment, and a bin man, and a paper boy - and thats the only the ones i have heard of. i called the police back- spoke to a sargent who was also more helpful and he looking into the dogs history, so hopefully something might happen.
as for my daughter, she is fine but I dont think she will ever go near a staffy again which is a shame as not all staffies are like this, all dogs have the ability to bit but as someone has already said its the owners not the dogs!

Thats good news that your complaint is being taken seriously.
Like you I beleive its the owners fault so excepted blame when my dog bit someone.
In my case it may have been accidental but with young children sometimes you arent given a second chance.:(

[porshiepoo]

My first reaction to this kind of thread is always that it's the owner that is a threat, not the dog. However that kind of opinion does not help in these kinds of cases - it's the dog that did the damage and as such, human nature demands that the dog is punished for this behaviour.
Unfortunately this kind of thing will continue to happen worldwide until the real threats are eradicated and that threat is ignorant dog owners who view owning a dog as a right not a privilege.

I have had 2 dogs pts due to temperment problems that meant they could not be trusted. That was a fair few years ago and only now can I see that the incidents that led me to take that action were entirely my fault as the owner. I caused the incidents to occur by not understanding a dogs nature and understanding what was required from me to fulfil their needs as animals. I've learnt from that and never ever will I find myself in that same position.

It's easy for me to say that you should take further action, you should press charges, you should speak to the dog warden etc etc, but I'm not the one that has to deal with the backlash from that.

What makes me so mad is that it is irresponsible owners like this that give certain breeds and dogs in general their bad names. There are some pwople who just should not be allowed to own dogs of any breed let alone a Staffie.
I've owned a Staffie that was given to us because it was 'nasty' and had killed the neighbours poodle. For the time we had him he was a different dog, the soppiest, sweetest thing you could imagine.
The problem is that there are some gladitorial type dogs that are one step away from becoming what they are bred to do and should only be owned by knowledgable people who understand the animal, not just the dog or the breed.

I sincerely hope that your daughter has not been scarred for life by this traumatic event and I hope that you get some kind of outcome that is acceptable to both your daughter and yourself.
We should all petition for dog ownership (especially of certain demanding breeds) to be licenced. Dog ownership should be taken much more seriously and the punishment for this kind of incident should be geared more toward the owner. A simple 6 month ban is not enough and is no deterrant.

[porshiepoo]

Our next door neighbours got a Staffie puppy about six months ago and it was the cutest little thing - I used to pat it over the wall. It gets the run of the garden but now that it's a good bit bigger I won't touch it because its freindly nips have turned into full on bites.

My other neighbour has been bitten by it and sometimes I see it out running about in the street - I've gone to the neighbours door but they don't seem that bothered.

Just the other day their granddaughter was out in the garden playing with it, she must be about five years old, and she came over and showed me marks on her hand and her leg. I asked her what they were and she told me the dog had bitten her. I didn't know whether or not to believe it because they didn't really look like bite marks - until two minutes later she started kicking the dog for no reason...

I told her that was a bad thing to do and her reply was "everyone kicks her"... It's no wonder the blooming dog bites then! [evil]


My god, that's disgusting behavior. And that behaviour is what that child is going to grow up 'knowing' and believing is right and correct.
That dog will retaliate badly one day. If it cannot flee it will fight and the poor thing will then be destined for the needle.

I beg you to report this. Do it anonymously if you need to but please please do something.
We cannot complain of these dog bite incidents if we do not do everything we can to prevent them happening in the first place.
I know you would then have to live next door to these people but they have to know that it is not right and not acceptable to treat any animal that way.

[emc246]

Well Anne the dog warden certainly isn't helpful in my eyes and neither are the police. It all depends on whether they like you or not and they make it personal when it shouldn't be - some people have a dog that bites children and they get them given back to them.
Then their is my dog. I went away for the weekend and left my dog, a greyhound, in the care of a friend. The dog had just given birth to 8 puppies. The person I left the dog with let her out for a pee and the gate was open and she apparently bit a man on the hand.
Next thing I am told the police and dog warden have taken my dog and puppies away and didn't even let anyone talk to them about the situation, they were all spoken to like dirt and treated like dirt aswell.
I have telephoned the police umpteen times to ask about my pets and when will I get them back and what is going to happen - been told I'd get a call back - NOTHING.
The dog has never ever done this before and is always friendly and well-behaved and in my care I have let her run off the lead loads of times and she was perfect. They are making out she is a savage dog and she isn't. She had just had her first litter of pups and it is ANIMAL INSTINCT to protect their young when feeling a threat.
But no, they aren't even taking into account she has had puppies and that it is out of character. They just want to punish me and take my animals away from me. But I will be getting her back and the people who were waiting to get one of the puppies as a pet will get their puppy.
My solicitor told me they have no right keeping them away from me, it has been 3 weeks now, and since the dog was kept in care of a friend for the weekend, was not my fault she bit. If they want me to muzzle her I will, but if I don't get them back I will sue them as I have been told I am in my rights to do so.
The people who phoned the police and dog warden should've taken into account the dog had just had a litter of pups instead of implying she is a dangerous dog because they are just being cruel and spiteful.

[katarina]

I spoke to Anne the dog warden yesterday, she was so helpful said the dog should be muzzeled when out. this dog bit a lady last friday and she required hospital treatment, and a bin man, and a paper boy - and thats the only the ones i have heard of. i called the police back- spoke to a sargent who was also more helpful and he looking into the dogs history, so hopefully something might happen.
as for my daughter, she is fine but I dont think she will ever go near a staffy again which is a shame as not all staffies are like this, all dogs have the ability to bit but as someone has already said its the owners not the dogs!

It is the owners! If my dog had bitten anyone I would have muzzled it from then on as well as being over the top concerned about whoever it had bitten. My daughter has a cross staffie which was lovely with people but agressive with other dogs. She did muzzle her for that reason. I'm assuming that it is the children of the owners who are threatening your daughter. shows complete lack of responsibility on the owners part towards their pet and their children!
Some people shouldn't be allowed to have dogs, let alone children!

[NickInTheNorth]

Well Anne the dog warden certainly isn't helpful in my eyes and neither are the police. It all depends on whether they like you or not and they make it personal when it shouldn't be - some people have a dog that bites children and they get them given back to them.
Then their is my dog. I went away for the weekend and left my dog, a greyhound, in the care of a friend. The dog had just given birth to 8 puppies. The person I left the dog with let her out for a pee and the gate was open and she apparently bit a man on the hand.
Next thing I am told the police and dog warden have taken my dog and puppies away and didn't even let anyone talk to them about the situation, they were all spoken to like dirt and treated like dirt aswell.
I have telephoned the police umpteen times to ask about my pets and when will I get them back and what is going to happen - been told I'd get a call back - NOTHING.
The dog has never ever done this before and is always friendly and well-behaved and in my care I have let her run off the lead loads of times and she was perfect. They are making out she is a savage dog and she isn't. She had just had her first litter of pups and it is ANIMAL INSTINCT to protect their young when feeling a threat.
But no, they aren't even taking into account she has had puppies and that it is out of character. They just want to punish me and take my animals away from me. But I will be getting her back and the people who were waiting to get one of the puppies as a pet will get their puppy.
My solicitor told me they have no right keeping them away from me, it has been 3 weeks now, and since the dog was kept in care of a friend for the weekend, was not my fault she bit. If they want me to muzzle her I will, but if I don't get them back I will sue them as I have been told I am in my rights to do so.
The people who phoned the police and dog warden should've taken into account the dog had just had a litter of pups instead of implying she is a dangerous dog because they are just being cruel and spiteful.

Everything you say makes me judge you as an irresposible owner.

It is YOUR dog, not your friends, therefore it is YOUR responsibilty. If you are not prepared to face up to that simple fact then you should not have a dog.

I hope they don't let you have the dog back.

The people that phoned the dog warden and police should not have taken into account that the bitch had just whelped, just the simple undisputable fact that the dog had bitten someone.

[emc246]

How dare you judge me that way.
I am not an irresponsible dog owner I have kept dogs all my life and never had any problems.
I had to go away for the weekend due to personal reasons, so left the dog and pups with a friend who let her out when she bit, when I got back I got told what had gone on.
I have called the police and told them it is MY DOG and I want to take full responsiblity for the dog but they have ignored me and have failed to contact me in regard to the situation.
They are wanting to blame the friend who was in control of the dog at the time even though I told them she is mine and am willing to be charged for what happened as I want her back.
She is part of the family and I am heartbroken what has happened, I have not had an correspondence from the police or the dog warden and what I wrote in my last post about it being the friends fault - that is what the police told the friend, not what I am saying.
Of course it matters she just had puppies, that is WHY SHE BIT. Otherwise she would NOT behave that way.
So don't tell me I shouldn't get my dog back when I am willing to muzzle the dog and I have never had this problem before even though I have kept dogs all my life. Even the kennels told me she is a lovely, kind dog so why shouldn't I get her back?
You can't judge me when you don't know me personally and I am telling you now I am a great dog owner and animal lover and I know how to control a dog aswell. I do not expect anyone but myself to get in trouble for the dog biting, but I know it was a one off and out of character occurence and everyone agrees with me it is animal instinct for a dog who has had pups as they are protecting their young. She is not aggresive at all.

[oldmarine]

As usual there is good advice on this thread. I suggest you read and act accordingly.

[jac1791]

the girls makeing threats against my daughter is not family of the owner - just a neighbour, I have phoned the police regarding the threats and told my daughter to report anything they say to her.

[butterfly]

the girls makeing threats against my daughter is not family of the owner - just a neighbour, I have phoned the police regarding the threats and told my daughter to report anything they say to her.



Good,dont let the bully's win.It's sad that you have to take those steps to protect your daughter when it's the dog owner who is at fault here!

[porshiepoo]

How dare you judge me that way.
I am not an irresponsible dog owner I have kept dogs all my life and never had any problems.
I had to go away for the weekend due to personal reasons, so left the dog and pups with a friend who let her out when she bit, when I got back I got told what had gone on.
I have called the police and told them it is MY DOG and I want to take full responsiblity for the dog but they have ignored me and have failed to contact me in regard to the situation.
They are wanting to blame the friend who was in control of the dog at the time even though I told them she is mine and am willing to be charged for what happened as I want her back.
She is part of the family and I am heartbroken what has happened, I have not had an correspondence from the police or the dog warden and what I wrote in my last post about it being the friends fault - that is what the police told the friend, not what I am saying.
Of course it matters she just had puppies, that is WHY SHE BIT. Otherwise she would NOT behave that way.
So don't tell me I shouldn't get my dog back when I am willing to muzzle the dog and I have never had this problem before even though I have kept dogs all my life. Even the kennels told me she is a lovely, kind dog so why shouldn't I get her back?
You can't judge me when you don't know me personally and I am telling you now I am a great dog owner and animal lover and I know how to control a dog aswell. I do not expect anyone but myself to get in trouble for the dog biting, but I know it was a one off and out of character occurence and everyone agrees with me it is animal instinct for a dog who has had pups as they are protecting their young. She is not aggresive at all.


But you haven't said that the man she bit was in any way a threat to her or the pups. What you have said is that the gate was open and she bit a man - we can only assume that she left your property and bit an innocent person, that does not sound like a bitch protecting her pups. Personally I would say it had as much to do with your absence as anything else and the lack of a 'pack leader'.(not that I blame you for having to go away - we all have to do that from time to time).
I have bred Great Danes and I've helped my friend with her Wolfhound pups and Basset pups and can honestly say that never have I known the bitch to bite anyone let alone leave the property and bite.

You say you are willing to take responsibility for this act but is seems that this is just lip service on your part as you have already stated that it wasn't your fault because A) you weren't looking after the bitch at the time and B) the bitch bit because she'd had a litter.
Do not fool yourself into believing that that is the reason she bit someone. From what I can gather from your post the person she bit posed no threat. Also do not fool yourself into believing that she will not do it again - all dogs are capable of biting if the circumstances dictate it.
One "out of character" moment can lead to many more similar moments if excuses are made.

IMO you do not sound like a bad owner, please do not think I do, however you have to accept full responsibility and not just say it.
You need to take steps to make sure this doesn't happen again and do not hide behind the 'whelping' curtain.
I do hope you get your dog back, I don't know the laws of what is reasonable in these situations but I would like to think that the Police and whoever now has your dog believe they are doing the correct thing. That doesn't help you I know, the loss of a loved pet is traumatic for anyone and I think it's cruel for anyone to suggest that you shouldn't get her back.

But you have to understand that from the outside looking in the picture is slightly different from the one you see yourself. At the end of the day you have said nothing that would suggest that this was a provoked attack - and that is what I would find worrying.

Good Luck!

[katarina]

sorry, but if the owner is prepared to have the dog muzzled, then where's the harm in letting her have her back? they say they don't want to have a healthy dog put down, and emc246 sounds very resposible to me. don't know what the problem is here. It's the owners who refuse to have their dog muzzled despite the animal having bitten someone who should not get the dog back. It has to be remembered that all dogs are basically wolves.

[Stefan]

It has to be remembered that all dogs are basically wolves.

Too many people forget where our domesticated dogs came from in the first place....

[porshiepoo]

sorry, but if the owner is prepared to have the dog muzzled, then where's the harm in letting her have her back? they say they don't want to have a healthy dog put down, and emc246 sounds very resposible to me. don't know what the problem is here. It's the owners who refuse to have their dog muzzled despite the animal having bitten someone who should not get the dog back. It has to be remembered that all dogs are basically wolves.

Exactly!
But just because a dog is muzzled in public does not mean it is no longer a threat. If the dog managed to get out the house without a muzzle again for whatever reason what would the outcome be? Would it bite again??
Muzzling deals with the symptoms not the cause. Unfortunately average Joe bloggs dog owner is not knowledgeable enough to deal with the underlying cause.
Then there are those owners that simply do not want to believe that their lovely, soft poochy is capable of such horrors without having a damn good reason for doing so and that is where alot of the repeat offences occur.
The problem has to be dealt with from the very first offence so that there is never a repeat of it again, if the owner cannot accept that then they need to do what is best for the dog and find someone who can.

In the case of emc246, the police etc have to be certain that it won't happen again before they release the dog back to her. Imagine the uproar if they release the dog and she bites again, but this time she bites a child.
The police would be hung, drawn and quatered.
It's not an easy situation for any party involved.

[Stefan]

Exactly!
But just because a dog is muzzled in public does not mean it is no longer a threat. If the dog managed to get out the house without a muzzle again for whatever reason what would the outcome be? Would it bite again??

Many dogs bite when they are on the lead for various reasons but wouldn't bite off the lead for obvious reasons!

Muzzling a dog is a last resort if the underlying problem can't be solved. You can't teach a dog not to protect their young, so muzzling in public during that time is a temporary but viable solution.

Dogs have instincts and they sometimes can't be taught not to use them.

[katarina]

Exactly!
In the case of emc246, the police etc have to be certain that it won't happen again before they release the dog back to her. Imagine the uproar if they release the dog and she bites again, but this time she bites a child.
The police would be hung, drawn and quatered.
It's not an easy situation for any party involved.

I understand what you are saying, but to take the dog from some one like emc246, and do nothing about the dog that bit jac9719's daughter, which seems to have bitten before, seems crazy to me.
I do understand that a muzzle does not solve the underlying problem, but it does protect the innocent.
Having puppies does make a dog very protective. i was brought up on a farm and we all knew from an early age not to go near any bitch who had just had a litter, no matter how docile they had been before.
Also an aquantance of mine was walking her pet poodle. Two staffies that were with their owner leapt on the poodle and severely injured it . the owners were not concerned, and blamed the poodle.
She went to the police who said there was nothing they could do about it. She asked if they could at least get the staffie owners to cough up for the vet's bill, to be told, 'You'll be lucky to get anything out of that crowd!'
what if it's a kid next time? By the way, the poodle survived.

[porshiepoo]

Many dogs bite when they are on the lead for various reasons but wouldn't bite off the lead for obvious reasons!

Muzzling a dog is a last resort if the underlying problem can't be solved. You can't teach a dog not to protect their young, so muzzling in public during that time is a temporary but viable solution.

Dogs have instincts and they sometimes can't be taught not to use them.

Completely agree. Instinct will always out! Every dog owner worldwide should be aware of the animal not just the breed or the pet. We assume that just because we have domesticated them that we have bred their natural instinct out of them - a very ignorant view of the animal world. We have simply suppressed it to some extent, however the right conditions will bring this instinct right back to the fore.
The most basic of the dog instinct is pack survival.

I have never felt the need to 'teach' a dog not to protect its young! The bitch I had knew her place within the pack and would not have bitten anyone that went near or touched her pups - same goes for every bitch my friend has ever bred from.


Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that a dog won't protect its young and I shouldn't have suggested that this wasn't the reason behind this particular attack (I don't know as I wasn't there). I just don't believe it's the only reason and I think it would be ignorant to think it was.
Would it have happened if the owner had been there? Possibly not because the gate may not have been open but IMO mainly because the pack hierarchy would have been maintained. I believe that this shift in hierarchy - probably coupled with the litter - is the root of what happened.
Doesn't help the man that was bitten though and I understand that.

Does this owner automatically have the right to put her take on the incident across and demand her dog back? No and nor should it.
Does promising to muzzle the dog automatically make her a competent, caring owner? No. Sorry but it doesn't - not when it's followed by her adamant belief that the dog acted out of character and would never do it again. That kind of comment (as well intentioned as it is) does not ooze confidence that she believes the dog should wear a muzzle.
How many people have been ordered to muzzle their dogs and don't - such as the one that should have been muzzled at the start of this topic? Too many to count no doubt.

As I said before I don't believe this particular owner is a bad person or in fact an incompetent dog owner, she has accepted responsibility for the incident which is more than most do and she has insisted that the dog will be muzzled.
I'm sure that legally she'll be entitled to the dog and her litter back and for what it's worth I really hope she does.
The removal of dogs should be aimed at the staffy who bit the child in this thread and has a record of doing so many times and the dog that is kicked as a matter of course by the people who own it.
But what happens to these dogs? Some are put down due to the breed, others are rehomed to equally ignorant families and the lucky ones get a decent home, are well loved and cared for.
What happens to the people who abused these dogs in the first place though? Most get away with it, those that are prosecuted get a ban for a minimal amount of time and if we're lucky there are some that get a prison term. If we're lucky! Then they eventually start it all over again.

[porshiepoo]

I understand what you are saying, but to take the dog from some one like emc246, and do nothing about the dog that bit jac9719's daughter, which seems to have bitten before, seems crazy to me.
I do understand that a muzzle does not solve the underlying problem, but it does protect the innocent.
Having puppies does make a dog very protective. i was brought up on a farm and we all knew from an early age not to go near any bitch who had just had a litter, no matter how docile they had been before.
Also an aquantance of mine was walking her pet poodle. Two staffies that were with their owner leapt on the poodle and severely injured it . the owners were not concerned, and blamed the poodle.
She went to the police who said there was nothing they could do about it. She asked if they could at least get the staffie owners to cough up for the vet's bill, to be told, 'You'll be lucky to get anything out of that crowd!'
what if it's a kid next time? By the way, the poodle survived.

Totally agree and understand with what you're saying - except the staying away from pups bit .lol.

If you believe a bitch will attack simply because she's had a litter then that bitch WILL attack and then you'll have convinced yourself that you were correct to believe that all bitches are over protective of their young.
The true fact however would be more along the lines of your energy telling that bitch that you're weak, scared and a possible threat and of course she will then react in the way you anticipated, BUT it's you that created that scenario not the dog.
There are lots of breeders around who breed from their bitches and are hands on from the moment they are born - heck we even help the bitch to whelp in some circumstances.
A whelping bitch DOES NOT automatically mean an aggressive, un responsive, devil of a dog.

I have no problem with muzzling a dog. As you say it does protect Joe public and is the responsible thing to do if there's a chance a dog will bite, however, personally I don't believe it should be left at that. The reason for biting has to be addressed not just the bite itself.

Your staffy incident is another one of those common problems of owners just not giving a damn unfortunately.
Staffies can make the most amazing pet in the right hands, however unfortunately for the breed some people are drawn toward the gladiatorial reputation of the breed and actually want that aggression to show - they have no hope of controlling it or containing it of course.

I will always believe though that the dog is as much a victim as the person it bit. That comment makes many people recoil but the fact is that man has created the problems that lie within the different breeds and owners have to take responsibility for the bite itself. The dog does not go out thinking "I'm gonna bite someone today", the dog simply reacts to various stimuli around it.

Unfortunately for many dogs the end result of a bite is being put to sleep. The owner is eventually then free to carry on regardless, we simply have to regulate dog ownership in some way.

[brandy]

why was one persons dog taken away from them for biting but not the others?
im under the assumption that the nursing bitch was taken away that has bitten once when it escaped, but the staffie that has bitten several times (including biting children) while on a lead and unmuzzled with the owner present, is still with said owner.

[jac1791]

Police has come to see me-- the dog owner has today been charged under the dangerous dog act .3 for not having the dog under control. although this doesnt help my daughter or anyone else it bites hopefully the PF will decide to take it to court.....

[sweetpea]

Who's going to court the dog? The PF prob will. what about the bullying?

[porshiepoo]

Police has come to see me-- the dog owner has today been charged under the dangerous dog act .3 for not having the dog under control. although this doesnt help my daughter or anyone else it bites hopefully the PF will decide to take it to court.....

At least it's something and shows that the matter is being taken seriously this time.
The chances are that the owner will lose the dog. Unfortunately I guess this means that the dog will be pts as he's a Staffy but even I can say better that humane ending than the dog end up mauling someone.
I sincerely hope that this owner gets a lifetime ban plus a prison term - not likely though.

[Stavro]

Well Anne the dog warden certainly isn't helpful in my eyes and neither are the police. It all depends on whether they like you or not and they make it personal when it shouldn't be - some people have a dog that bites children and they get them given back to them.
Then their is my dog. I went away for the weekend and left my dog, a greyhound, in the care of a friend. The dog had just given birth to 8 puppies. The person I left the dog with let her out for a pee and the gate was open and she apparently bit a man on the hand.
Next thing I am told the police and dog warden have taken my dog and puppies away and didn't even let anyone talk to them about the situation, they were all spoken to like dirt and treated like dirt aswell.
I have telephoned the police umpteen times to ask about my pets and when will I get them back and what is going to happen - been told I'd get a call back - NOTHING.
The dog has never ever done this before and is always friendly and well-behaved and in my care I have let her run off the lead loads of times and she was perfect. They are making out she is a savage dog and she isn't. She had just had her first litter of pups and it is ANIMAL INSTINCT to protect their young when feeling a threat.
But no, they aren't even taking into account she has had puppies and that it is out of character. They just want to punish me and take my animals away from me. But I will be getting her back and the people who were waiting to get one of the puppies as a pet will get their puppy.
My solicitor told me they have no right keeping them away from me, it has been 3 weeks now, and since the dog was kept in care of a friend for the weekend, was not my fault she bit. If they want me to muzzle her I will, but if I don't get them back I will sue them as I have been told I am in my rights to do so.
The people who phoned the police and dog warden should've taken into account the dog had just had a litter of pups instead of implying she is a dangerous dog because they are just being cruel and spiteful.


That is really awful for you, emc246. Of course your dog was over-protective and not her usual self.

I trust that you will get her and her puppies back safe and well in the very near future, for it is evident that you love your dog. :D

[DanaFlett]

I have a one year old dog,and if she ever bite anyone,down she goes.
This is sad for your daughter,my son was nipped in the face when he was around five years old by a family pet no names off course,but i wanted him put down,cause he had nipped children in the past(excuse was they must of been taunting him)i think not.The dog was never put down,[disgust]...

[Scorpio12thNov]

I've been bitten by two jack russell terriers, but I still love dogs. What makes a dog bite & be ill tempered? Were they mis-treated as pups? Tumar in the brain? I believe if you bring up your pet with love & attention, they will honour you, & even die for you...

[thebigman]

Also contact the dog warden they have a statutory duty to deal with dangerous dogs as do the police. Any dog that has bitten someone is dangerous.


The dog wardens statutory duty relates to stray dogs not dangerous dogs.

[jac1791]

as i said the dog warden Anne was great, she is on this case too so id like to say here ------ THX ANNE FOR YOUR HELP

[oldmarine]

I've been bitten by two jack russell terriers, but I still love dogs. What makes a dog bite & be ill tempered? Were they mis-treated as pups? Tumar in the brain? I believe if you bring up your pet with love & attention, they will honour you, & even die for you...

You hit the nail on the head with this comment. That goes for children as well as for pets. Love will overcome ill temper and mis-treatment.

[Scorpio12thNov]

Thanks old marine;)

[porshiepoo]

I've been bitten by two jack russell terriers, but I still love dogs. What makes a dog bite & be ill tempered? Were they mis-treated as pups? Tumar in the brain? I believe if you bring up your pet with love & attention, they will honour you, & even die for you...


As much as I appreciate your comment and opinion, I have to say that I disagree with alot of that statement.
Love and attention is not necessarily what a dog needs if that love and attention becomes coddling and attention when the dog is not in a calm state of mind.
I understand the sentiment behind what you say but a dog will only "honour" you if you respect the dynamics of a pack and the pack mentality.
You can be as loving and smothering as you want to a dog but the dog will not interpret it that way - they simply do not 'think' the way that we do. Love and attention certainly does not equal pack safety in the eyes of a dog.
"Die for you" - Hmmmm, that was one I had to get my head round. lol.
A dog may perform an action that we as humans interpret as dying for us but believe me that is not what is going through the dogs mind. The pack dynamic will always be forefront of a dogs mind and yes a dog will protect it's pack to the extreme but they aren't thinking 'I'll die for this person', they will simply act on instinct without processing the possible outcome the way humans do.

Completely useless piece of information for you there but there you go. :)

I would like to say that I'm glad your dog bite experiences has not put you off dogs - maybe just put you off the owners!? lol.

My daughter was bitten by a Rottweiler when she was about 6 - still loves dogs though and does not blame the dog at all. The dog was sitting in the boot of an estate with the owner (Boot door was up) and we asked first if my daughter could stroke it and the guy said yes. As soon as her hand went out the dog bit her. I must say that the guy didn't seem that bothered, although he did claim that the dog had never done it before.

[Scorpio12thNov]

As much as I appreciate your comment and opinion, I have to say that I disagree with alot of that statement.
Love and attention is not necessarily what a dog needs if that love and attention becomes coddling and attention when the dog is not in a calm state of mind.
I understand the sentiment behind what you say but a dog will only "honour" you if you respect the dynamics of a pack and the pack mentality.
You can be as loving and smothering as you want to a dog but the dog will not interpret it that way - they simply do not 'think' the way that we do. Love and attention certainly does not equal pack safety in the eyes of a dog.
"Die for you" - Hmmmm, that was one I had to get my head round. lol.
A dog may perform an action that we as humans interpret as dying for us but believe me that is not what is going through the dogs mind. The pack dynamic will always be forefront of a dogs mind and yes a dog will protect it's pack to the extreme but they aren't thinking 'I'll die for this person', they will simply act on instinct without processing the possible outcome the way humans do.

Completely useless piece of information for you there but there you go. :)

I would like to say that I'm glad your dog bite experiences has not put you off dogs - maybe just put you off the owners!? lol.

My daughter was bitten by a Rottweiler when she was about 6 - still loves dogs though and does not blame the dog at all. The dog was sitting in the boot of an estate with the owner (Boot door was up) and we asked first if my daughter could stroke it and the guy said yes. As soon as her hand went out the dog bit her. I must say that the guy didn't seem that bothered, although he did claim that the dog had never done it before.
Hey Porsh. I was a bit older when I was bitten, around 15-16. At least I wasn't 6 & it wasn't a rottweiler:eek:Poor Lassie...

The experiences I've had with family dogs is about love & attention, but it's also about discipline. Walk your dog regular, 2-3 times a day, talk to your dog & cuddle your dog. A pet is just like a child & if your bairn comes up to you & wants to play with you, are you going to say no to that child? If no, why would you say no to the dog? & when a dog is part of your family, they're in their pack.

But then there is the discipline, no means no! & as long as your dog understands the "meaning of no" then all will be ok. If your dog is always whining for biscuits & if you give in to them, they're in control. Not you, the owner. Before you know it, your dog is overweight, becomes depressed, then starts snapping & biting.

Not only that but dogs are brilliant company. Especially going out for walks. But as I said, these are my experiences with dogs.

& yes it did put me off the owners!:lol:

[porshiepoo]

Hey Porsh. I was a bit older when I was bitten, around 15-16. At least I wasn't 6 & it wasn't a rottweiler:eek:Poor Lassie...

The experiences I've had with family dogs is about love & attention, but it's also about discipline. Walk your dog regular, 2-3 times a day, talk to your dog & cuddle your dog. A pet is just like a child & if your bairn comes up to you & wants to play with you, are you going to say no to that child? If no, why would you say no to the dog? & when a dog is part of your family, they're in their pack.

But then there is the discipline, no means no! & as long as your dog understands the "meaning of no" then all will be ok. If your dog is always whining for biscuits & if you give in to them, they're in control. Not you, the owner. Before you know it, your dog is overweight, becomes depressed, then starts snapping & biting.

Not only that but dogs are brilliant company. Especially going out for walks. But as I said, these are my experiences with dogs.

& yes it did put me off the owners!:lol:

I guess this is one of those topics where opinions can go and on and on and on and.........lol.

Personally, as much as I respect that your opinion comes from the right place, I would never ever treat a dog like a child.
Dogs are animals and as such do not think like a human, of any age!
I personally would not give a dog anything that it "demands". Start that trick and the dog will soon expect it to happen all the time, then what happens when the dog doesn't get the attention it's demanding??? It starts to bite its demand. The whole thing just escalates.
And by giving in to a dogs demands you are actually confirming to that dog that the dog is in command.

Did you see that tv show on those overweight dogs? How bloomin awful? Has to be classed as animal cruelty doesn't it? The ones with the Rottie that just would not accept that the dog was overweight - killing it with misguided kindness and love.

Still, I guess we'll always have different opinions on these things huh! The way of the world.

[ragdollyanna]

As someone with two kids under school age this subject is something I feel really strongly about.
Dogs should be kept under strict control in public areas, particularly where young children are playing. Twice recently I have seen 2 different young women in our housing estate walking Staffies, without leads, last time past a swing park where my kids were playing and then down past the primary school.
Now, I have nothing against Staffies - I know they can be hugely affectionate but just as human beings can "lose it" so can dogs!!!! Who knows what "triggers" aggressive behaviour? I knew a dog that used to go mad if someone passed carrying a plastic bag! If a dog with strong jaws like that did decide to attack a child, there wouldn't be much I or it's owner would be able to do - and that scares me.

[Miss Mack]

Went on holiday to Poland a couple of years ago, all dogs there, must be muzzled when in a public place !

[oldmarine]

Went on holiday to Poland a couple of years ago, all dogs there, must be muzzled when in a public place !

Sounds like a good idea. Perhaps that would be a good thing to do in all places.

[kat300586]

i would trust this dog use r talkin about with my kids lives.my kids hav been round this dog unmuzzled loads of times an they hav never ones even tryed anythin with them or any of the other kids that r around them.

[Tubthumper]

i would trust this dog use r talkin about with my kids lives.my kids hav been round this dog unmuzzled loads of times an they hav never ones even tryed anythin with them or any of the other kids that r around them.
Maybe the mutt is too scared of the Week mafia to bite?