View Full Version : Is it about time.
I heard on the radio the other night that, in a recent poll in Edinburgh, more young people admitted to trying cannabis before tobacco as a first drug. Although there will be many statements about the evils of cannabis smoking and how we should come down hard on all who use it, the fact remains that the entire power of the world's police forces have not succeded in reducing the traffic. In fact, the ammount of cannabis used and consumed by the people of th UK has increased by a great deal over the last twenty years.
The disturbing aspect of this poll is that more and more young people are smoking a substance for which there are no quality controls. Chemists have stated that the cheap street resin which is available in copious quantities contains an amazing collection of potentially dangerous substances. Camel dung, polymer resin, solder flux, very strong tranquilisers, melted vynyl and so on. All of these substances are potentially dangerous and I have heard so many young people cough their lungs up after years of smoking this manufactured rubbish. It is also very cheap which puts it within the budget of vulnerable young people. We cannot stop the drug business. It is an impossibility and, by leaving it illegal, we are glamourising it in the minds of young kids. Cannabis will lead to more dangerous drugs as most of these young experimenters will start smoking tobacco as a result of trying hashish.
If we cannot stop this trade in garbage, then we have to do something to ensure that our kids are not taking in poisonous substances thinking that it is the real thing. Those who circumvent the criminal dealers by growing a pure form of the drug for medicinal reasons or for recreation get treated worse than people who kill due to drunk driving.
It is high time, I feel, that the government and all other people in power faced up to the reality of the situation and made moves to ensure, one way or another, that our young people are no longer buying garbage to enrich some drug Baron in Russia.
Alcohol kills thousands anually as does tobacco. Cannabis in a relatively pure form has never killed anyone,ever. Something is wrong somewhere but what can we do about it. Any ideas?????:confused:
RandomHero
04-Apr-06, 18:28
I disagree.
1. On par, pot is bad for you. Its negative effects on teenagers – physical, psychological, social – are well-documented.
In 1998, nearly 77,000 people were admitted to hospital emergency rooms suffering from marijuana-related problems. This was an increase of more than 373 percent since 1991 (National Institute on Drug Abuse (2001), NIDA InfoFacts: Marijuana).
2. Pot is addictive. Addiction is presently defined by how the use of a substance impairs a broad array of life arenas, not just whether the substance is physically addictive, demonstrated by tolerance and withdrawal states. Ironically, however, recent studies (Gianluigi et al. (2000), Nature Neuroscience, 3, 1073-1074 and Budney et al. (2001), Archives of General Psychiatry, 58, 917-924) have discovered a withdrawal pattern in marijuana users shortly after they quit, which includes persistent cravings, decreased appetite, sleep difficulties, weight loss, increased aggression, irritability and restlessness.
3. Teen pot use is steady, if not on the rise – as are pot-related arrests. The latest data from the well-respected Monitoring the Future Survey, a national survey of high school kids, show that in 2001, past marijuana use among 12th graders is 37 percent and daily use is holding steady at 5.8 percent, a significant increase from a low of 2 percent in 1991.
The number of cannabis-involved arrests by year in New York City has climbed from 4,762 in 1991 to 50,830 in 2000 (NIDA (2000), Epidemiologic trends in drug abuse. NIH Community Epidemiology Work Group). In New York City, 33 percent of 1999 arrestees were 16- to 20-year-olds.
If we are infact "glamourising" cannabis and we do indeed make it legal, what about all the other drugs that will still be illegal? Will they not also be 'glamourised'. The Government aren't getting their jolly's out of not letting people have cannabis legally, they are doing it for the health and safety of it's people. I don't want to start on the whole "The government is bad coz it's says so in the papers" discussion. There will never be agreement on this subject, I am merley stating my opinion as you are also doing.
Not had time to fully digest your very well presented post and ,indeed, have no wish to argue with you on the pros and cons of cannabis legalisation. My point is that people who consume pot are consuming a horrendous cocktail of nasty substances. Cannabis,per se , is not truly addictive in the way that heroin is, as any long term user with no axe to grind will tell you. I am not aware of the statistics you quote and I am not prepared to dispute figures as these figures are history as soon as they are written down. What I say about hashish can be applied to all of the recreationally used drugs and, indeed, I see total legalisation of all drugs as the only way ahead. This is a view held by a rising number of politicians worldwide. As the number of users of all ages increases, so thefore will the number of arrests increase. Legalisation opens the way to control where-as prohibition leads to all things being hidden from the eyes of those who write the statistics.
Tobacco is very addictive and a lot more people end up in hospital because they use it/abuse it than are there from smoking pot. Alcohol is addictive and causes more trouble than anything else, particularly now, as the alcohol producers sell it mixed with pop. Should we make both of these very addictive and destructive substances illegal. You would have a revolution on your hands!!If the government,as you say, is concerned about the health and safety of the people then tobacco and alcohol should be banned.
You, I would imagine from the tenor of your post, are speaking purely from statistics and second hand knowledge and, although you are entitled to your opinion, I can't help but think that you are somewhat blinkered to the facts.
My point is that our young people are being fed a propoganda line which they question and don't believe and, by experimenting for themselves, are taking in extremely dangerous substances like solder flux into their lungs. I am not really concerned about the legal position of cannabis but I am very concerned about the poisons being sold with it.
Have you any knowledge of the process which led to the prohibition of cannabis. It is a very interesting tale of money and political sleaze.
Alcohol kills thousands anually as does tobacco. Cannabis in a relatively pure form has never killed anyone,ever. Something is wrong somewhere but what can we do about it. Any ideas?????:confused:
Come off it Gleber2 Cannabis killed a mate of mine trying to do his duty as a Customs Officer, catching a known smuggler
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2004/02/13/newsstory5620065t0.asp
Come off it Gleber2 Cannabis killed a mate of mine trying to do his duty as a Customs Officer, catching a known smuggler
If ye want to be facetious,Aged One,there was no relatively pure cannabis in that boat. I take your point, Golach, but his death could be put down to very illogical laws being applied as duty. Ask yourself why cannabis is illegal!!!!
If ye want to be facetious,Aged One,there was no relatively pure cannabis in that boat. I take your point, Golach, but his death could be put down to very illogical laws being applied as duty. Ask yourself why cannabis is illegal!!!!
I find it easy to understand why its illeagal..........ITS THE LAW of the land
Come off it Gleber2 Cannabis killed a mate of mine trying to do his duty as a Customs Officer, catching a known smuggler
I am sorry for the loss of your mate I know he was only carrying out his duty however like Gleber2 said (more or less) it wasn't cannabis that lead to your friends death but illogical laws laid down by a goverment that has alterrial motives for keeping cannabis illegal, just ask any police officer how much his time is taken up by alcohol related crime compared to crimes involving people under the influence of cannabis.
The fact that the goverment hasn't acknowleged the lack of quality control by legalising it speaks volumes and certainly doesn't show any concern about our health.
The amount of damage alcohol does to the human body far outways any damage done by cannibas use, and what realy bothers me is when somebody starts dictating how bad cannibas is while standing at a bar filling their face with alcohol to the point where they cant even say cannibis and then they start getting stroppy, You very rarely see someone becoming violent under the influence of cannabis.
I find it easy to understand why its illeagal..........ITS THE LAW of the land
But why was the law passed in the first place. That is the question I asked you. It is very interesting tale. Hemp, paper, petrochemicals, cotton, political sleaze, there are many underlying but never discussed reasons for the laws passed in the twenties and thirties. How can you seriously support a piece of legislation when you have no idea why it was passed to start off with.
Clash67 we are of a similar mind.
I find it easy to understand why its illeagal..........ITS THE LAW of the land
Sorry Golach but is the laws of this land that has the country in the state it is in.
Politicians have to be kept an eye on. Its a thin line between laws and dictatorship and anyway you would be suprised if you knew how many of those who put these laws in place actualy use cannabis themselves, I personally could name a few, but being a gentleman I would not do so.
I am sorry for the loss of your mate I know he was only carrying out his duty however like Gleber2 said (more or less) it wasn't cannabis that lead to your friends death but illogical laws laid down by a goverment that has alterrial motives for keeping cannabis illegal, just ask any police officer how much his time is taken up by alcohol related crime compared to crimes involving people under the influence of cannabis.
The fact that the goverment hasn't acknowleged the lack of quality control by legalising it speaks volumes and certainly doesn't show any concern about our health.
The amount of damage alcohol does to the human body far outways any damage done by cannibas use, and what realy bothers me is when somebody starts dictating how bad cannibas is while standing at a bar filling their face with alcohol to the point where they cant even say cannibis and then they start getting stroppy, You very rarely see someone becoming violent under the influence of cannabis.
It was the likes of Roderick Mclean and his ilk, the Drug Dealers and smugglers that caused the death of Alister not the Law, and as for cannabis users not being violent and killers just look in any newspaper and see the number of deaths caused by drivers under the lnfluence of cannabis, see the number of muggings of pensioners, and you will see that the offenders usual excuse "I had been smoking cannabis, and taking drugs". I am a non smoker now but I have never seen anywhere that a Tobacco smoker has ever been so under the influence, show me that about cannabis. As far as I personally am concerned anyone who smokes cannabis or takes any illeagal substance or advocates the use of such, to me is a common Junkie
It was the likes of Roderick Mclean and his ilk, the Drug Dealers and smugglers that caused the death of Alister not the Law, and as for cannabis users not being violent and killers just look in any newspaper and see the number of deaths caused by drivers under the lnfluence of cannabis, see the number of muggings of pensioners, and you will see that the offenders usual excuse "I had been smoking cannabis, and taking drugs". I am a non smoker now but I have never seen anywhere that a Tobacco smoker has ever been so under the influence, show me that about cannabis. As far as I personally am concerned anyone who smokes cannabis or takes any illeagal substance or advocates the use of such, to me is a common Junkie
Your last statement is prejudiced uninformed garbage and completely insulting to the absolute millions of cannabis users world wide. I have never come accross a case where the mugger was under the inluence of cannabis primarily. Most cases are atributable to heroin and alcohol or cocaine.
However, Gollach, I asked how we could stop our young people from using polluted and dangerously impure substances to the detriment of their health.
I have no wish to get involved in an emotional arguement upon a subject which you patantly know nothing and are too set in your ways to find out truth instead of cant.. Once more the old rule applies,"Don't bother me with facts, I've already made up my mind". You like a pint,Golach,does that make you an alcoholic? And how many millions of people have been killed by drunk drivers?
RandomHero
04-Apr-06, 22:20
If we legalise cannabis, then what next? Like Gleber2 said in his original post, we are "glamourising" cannabis by making it illegal; if we legalise it, are the other drugs, like cocaine, not glamorous?
Cannabis contains more tar than cigarettes so even for medical purposes could cause more problems. With regards to what Gleber2 said about alcohol being much more of a killer, should we ban it? Wouldn't be the first time a prohabition has taken place up this way. You say Cannabis is never the only substance found in a someone's body who has caused an accident or murder, is that not the same case for alcohol fuelled crimes? Beer and stupidity? Wine and anger? Rage and weed?
Lived in Edinburgh for 15 years and seeing and working with young guys and girls smoking "the stuff" like sweeties - and pure or impure there was a definite decline in there attitude to everything.
There is enough nonsense out there with binge drinking - smoking - perscripted and non perscripted drugs that legalising cannabis has to be a big fat no!
I am not an angel by any means - I smoke and I have an occasional drink mainly through peer pressure when I was younger and I am guessing that the majority of people who take drink, tobacco, cannabis or drugs of any kind have done so through peer pressure. If a child can grow up without the influence of any artificial “high” they would lead far better lives and be better people for it.
It was the likes of Roderick Mclean and his ilk, the Drug Dealers and smugglers that caused the death of Alister not the Law, and as for cannabis users not being violent and killers just look in any newspaper and see the number of deaths caused by drivers under the lnfluence of cannabis, see the number of muggings of pensioners, and you will see that the offenders usual excuse "I had been smoking cannabis, and taking drugs". I am a non smoker now but I have never seen anywhere that a Tobacco smoker has ever been so under the influence, show me that about cannabis. As far as I personally am concerned anyone who smokes cannabis or takes any illeagal substance or advocates the use of such, to me is a common Junkie
Beware Golach they may make alcohol illegal one day, what would you say then,would you stick to your princapils and never drink again or will you buy your drink on the black market and become automaticaly branded a criminal?
RandomHero
04-Apr-06, 22:27
if alcohol was banned I would be fine. Infact I would support it. I do drink a tad too much sometimes but I can live without it, but those who can't you must take a serious look at yourselves.
If we legalise cannabis, then what next? Like Gleber2 said in his original post, we are "glamourising" cannabis by making it illegal; if we legalise it, are the other drugs, like cocaine, not glamorous?
Cannabis contains more tar than cigarettes so even for medical purposes could cause more problems. With regards to what Gleber2 said about alcohol being much more of a killer, should we ban it? Wouldn't be the first time a prohabition has taken place up this way. You say Cannabis is never the only substance found in a someone's body who has caused an accident or murder, is that not the same case for alcohol fuelled crimes? Beer and stupidity? Wine and anger? Rage and weed?
I have never, in forty tears in the music business, seen rage created by weed.When cannabis is smoked in the absence of tobacco ,as it should be, the quantity required is so small so as cause no problem with tar.
Glamour and peer pressure and, more importantly low price ,makes it the drug of choice for those dabbling while still at school.
What I am saying is that the present attitude to drugs of all sorts, particularly the legal attitude, is causing more of a problem than it can cure and we, as a race, need to find another way of tackling the problem. If we cannot stop this trade, we need to protect the young people who are fed so much contradictory crap that they have no idea of the reality of the choices they are making. I am sure that most people would prefer that their chidren never started to experiment but, faced with the knowledge that it cannot be avoided, as many parents would agree, do we not have a duty to make sure that they are not, in their ignorance, smoking camel dung and solder flux?
Your last statement is prejudiced uninformed garbage and completely insulting to the absolute millions of cannabis users world wide.
My last statement was my personal opinion and yes it is predjudiced, because I am ANTI illeagal drugs, my choice, my preference, I have nowhere said anything different, maybe because I see myself as a law abiding citizen.
Because I choose not to take this "illeagal drug" cannabis does not make me "uninformed", I am maybe not as articulate and educated as your good self Gleber2, but I am an informed and enlightened man, and my vote is NO to any drugs, and none of your point of view will change my opinion
RandomHero
04-Apr-06, 22:39
Parents can protect their children. I will never smoke as it is but I would be totally against smoking or drinking infront of my children as I have been there as a child. I have never smoked it and never intend on smoking it. The business I am in, it is rife. We can live without it. We have got bigger fish to fry in this world.
My last statement was my personal opinion and yes it is predjudiced, because I am ANTI illeagal drugs, my choice, my preference, I have nowhere said anything different, maybe because I see myself as a law abiding citizen.
Because I choose not to take this "illeagal drug" cannabis does not make me "uninformed", I am maybe not as articulate and educated as your good self Gleber2, but I am an informed and enlightened man, and my vote is NO to any drugs, and none of your point of view will change my opinion
Fairy nuff.On this subject you are not an enlightened man and not so well informed. Have you found out why cannabis is illegal yet?The biggest drug problem we are facing is from legal drugs and over prescribing by law abiding Doctors. In most cases,I am as against the drug business as much as you are but I am enlightened and informed enough to know that prohibition is failing miserably and something else must be done to protect the young victims of this foreign inspired traffic.
The perennial arguement about legalising or not legalising cannabis is pathetic and verging on the juvenile. Our problems need to be cured and we must find a means to cure them.Your way does not work and we need to change it.
Parents can protect their children. I will never smoke as it is but I would be totally against smoking or drinking infront of my children as I have been there as a child. I have never smoked it and never intend on smoking it. The business I am in, it is rife. We can live without it. We have got bigger fish to fry in this world.
Parents are patently not protecting their children because they cannot.Children tend to cast aside the example of their parents and rebel and in our reality there is always some-one who will lead them astray. Good grief, we have 11 year old heroin addicts. You may not smoke or drink in front of your children but do they never watch telly?
RandomHero
04-Apr-06, 22:56
TV doesn't create drug addicts
TV doesn't create drug addicts
Come on man!!!! You were talking about not smoking or drinking in front of your children so as to set a good example. People are smoking and drinking all the time on TV which does not set a good example. Does not this negate your good,holier than thou, example?
RandomHero
04-Apr-06, 23:17
To set a good example? no, i never said that. i would never smoke infront of them due to health reasons and no1 likes to see their parents drink. i certainly didnt anyway. i watched tv but i dont smoke, kill people or anything else that may appear on tv. am i one of a kind? i doubt it. i don't drink because the tv tells me to and i could live without it. if people can't live without cannabis/booze, then i think they have a problem.
Gleber2, Im sure you could argue all day with any point that is posted to justify your view, but I am certain that the majority is against it.
To set a good example? no, i never said that. i would never smoke infront of them due to health reasons and no1 likes to see their parents drink. i certainly didnt anyway. i watched tv but i dont smoke, kill people or anything else that may appear on tv. am i one of a kind? i doubt it. i don't drink because the tv tells me to and i could live without it. if people can't live without cannabis/booze, then i think they have a problem.
We are not talking about grown people like yourself being influenced by TV but young impressionable minds who are influenced by what the flickering screen tells them. It is infinately harder to break a booze addiction than a cannabis dependancy,
you cannot compare the two in anyway whatsoever The alcohol user can kill himself because it's legal.
[quote=acameron]Gleber2, Im sure you could argue all day with any point that is posted to justify your view, but I am certain that the majority is against it.[/quote
It seems that some of the older generation seem to think that if the goverments says its so then thats how it must be, this seems strange to me, dont they have enough brains brains to find out the facts and make an informed judgement rather than being influenced by the likes of tony blair and his crownies.The goverment is not god! They are certainly not always looking out for the interests of the many and have been known to commit horendous acts for self gain.
RandomHero
04-Apr-06, 23:30
But im thinking back to when I was a child. When I first began to drink, before I touched a drop, I spoke to my Dad about it and he spoke to me on a level I would understand.
You're right alcohol is legal, cannabis isn't. And no matter how much you want it to be legal, it isn't. It is not acceptable on any level in this country. And I am proud of that. Laws need to be tightened on people in possesion of it and convictions need to be harder.
RandomHero
04-Apr-06, 23:32
[quote=acameron]Gleber2, Im sure you could argue all day with any point that is posted to justify your view, but I am certain that the majority is against it.[/quote
It seems that some of the older generation seem to think that if the goverments says its so then thats how it must be, this seems strange to me, dont they have enough brains brains to find out the facts and make an informed judgement rather than being influenced by the likes of tony blair and his crownies.The goverment is not god! They are certainly not always looking out for the interests of the many and have been known to commit horendous acts for self gain.
I'm not the 'older generation', thank you very much.
[quote=clash67]
I'm not the 'older generation', thank you very much.
I beg your pardon, i didnt mean to implie that you were, please accept my appoligy, but my point still stands regarding the older generation in general.
Which makes me wonder what they were doing during the sixties, did they totally not get woodstock, were the too busy at bible class?
Gleber2, Im sure you could argue all day with any point that is posted to justify your view, but I am certain that the majority is against it.
Is not this what a forum is all about. Perhaps, if the government put it to a referendum, you might be surprised at the result.
Anyway, as I have said before in this thread, the legality of cannabis is not the point I make. I am concerned, from a position of knowledge, about the dangerous substances that are being added to cannabis to make more profit for the dealers. Cannabis, again from a position of knowledge, is not a problem. The fact is that thousands upon thousands of young and not so young people, for whatever reason, are smoking the stuff, whether you like it or not. We need a quality contol, by any means possible, to protect their health. Most of the people who hysterically shout about the dangers of cannabis with emotions running high are speaking from a second hand platform and should investigate the whys and wherefores of the situation and not reiterate the same old tired arguements.
If we legalise cannabis, then what next? Like Gleber2 said in his original post, we are "glamourising" cannabis by making it illegal; if we legalise it, are the other drugs, like cocaine, not glamorous?
Cannabis contains more tar than cigarettes so even for medical purposes could cause more problems. With regards to what Gleber2 said about alcohol being much more of a killer, should we ban it?
If we ban alcohol what next? Ban tea and coffee too, they are addictive, they can have harmful effects, 100% of heroin users say they used coffee first, caffeine is a gateway drug.
If we ban tea and coffe then what? Chocolate would be a good candidate, it's addictive and causes people to be overweight, obesity is a major killer. Did you know that 98% of rapists and serial killers admitted to eating chocolate in the previous week?
After chocolate what next, sleep, it gives you halucinations. Do you know how many man hours a year are lost through sleeping? 100% of mass murderers are known to have "taken a nap" or "had a kip" (those are slang terms which have grown up around the sleep culture) in the previous 24 hours.
If we legalise cannabis what next? On the available data less people would smoke it, we have a far higher percentage of cannabis users than the Netherlands where it was decriminalised and the 2003 reclasification to class C has not led to an increase. I doubt it would make any significant difference at all to the number of users, it's already easily obtainable on most street corners, people are going to smoke it as what we do. We would save a lot of tax payers money which currently goes to policing, prosecuting and keeping people involved in the drugs trade in prison. We would deprive the drug runners of their source of income. The quality of the cannabis people smoke could be controlled leading to a reduction in the health risks. Cannabis could be taxed which would mean more money in the exchequer for hospitals, maternity units, pensioners.
Fairy nuff.On this subject you are not an enlightened man and not so well informed. Have you found out why cannabis is illegal yet? but I am enlightened and informed enough to know that prohibition is failing miserably and something else must be done to protect the young victims of this foreign inspired traffic.
The perennial arguement about legalising or not legalising cannabis is pathetic and verging on the juvenile. Our problems need to be cured and we must find a means to cure them.Your way does not work and we need to change it.
NO way would I give in to the legalisation of what is obviously what you class a normal part of your daily use. I consider what you and "clash" are advocating is morally wrong, maybe thats the way you live and want your children and grandchildren to live, but I dont, and if I ever found out that because of your influence, any of mine, went in your direction, then I would not be responsible for my actions.
Why because you smoke a bit of "waccy" do you become enlightened? I honestly do not know why it was made illeagal, but I am a law abiding citizen of the UK and was proud till be a member of HM Customs and Excise aqnd even prouder to stand up in court and put drug runners in jail
[quote=clash67]
I'm not the 'older generation', thank you very much.
I am and I was working a hundred miles from Woodstock and should have been there.
Random Hero, where do you bury your head. I have seen cannabis openly smoked in some very high places on the social ladder. Cannabis is OK and accepted virtually everywhere as a fact of life.Heavier sentences?? The death penalty isn't enough in some countries to put a stop to it.If you put many more people in jail for drugs, there won't be enough room for real criminals. And how are you going to police your new heavier penalties? The police cannot even control the cannabis flow in a place as transparent as Caithness. Come into the real world, into the 21st century and bury your pride. Legally, politically and in many other ways, Great Britain sucks and its whole legal system is built on weak foundations, on top of a crumbling tower.
How can any sane person be proud of this crumbling edifice?
We cannot stop the drug trade by any means at our disposal and we and the government need to make big changes in our thinking and the law if we are to address the problem of poisonous substances being smoked by young people.
Nobody on this thread so far has stated that they know why cannabis is illegal. I would be interested in your views on this aspect of the problem.
NO way would I give in to the legalisation of what is obviously what you class a normal part of your daily use. I consider what you and "clash" are advocating is morally wrong, maybe thats the way you live and want your children and grandchildren to live, but I dont, and if I ever found out that because of your influence, any of mine, went in your direction, then I would not be responsible for my actions.
Why because you smoke a bit of "waccy" do you become enlightened? I honestly do not know why it was made illeagal, but I am a law abiding citizen of the UK and was proud till be a member of HM Customs and Excise aqnd even prouder to stand up in court and put drug runners in jail
I am advocating a change in the law to protect people not harm them.I have never said that smoking pot has made me enlightened, only that I have learned enough facts to have an enlightened attitude to this subject.
Morally wrong? Where do you come from Golach? Mars.And who are you to say what is my daily use. Perhaps the man who tries it once and then, with pride, states that it did nothing for him, when he was probably under the influence of alcohol at the time, has the moral high ground. But what if he had liked it????? I want my children and grandchildren to live in a fair enlightened society that recognises everyones right to take whatever they want into their bodies. You don't care why a law was passed. If it is against the law it is wrong even though the law is completely wrong and it should never have been passed to start of with. Of course, I am talking to a self confessed homophobe. Would you like the old laws regarding gay behaviour to be re-instated so that you could jail them too?
NO way would I give in to the legalisation of what is obviously what you class a normal part of your daily use. I consider what you and "clash" are advocating is morally wrong, maybe thats the way you live and want your children and grandchildren to live, but I dont, and if I ever found out that because of your influence, any of mine, went in your direction, then I would not be responsible for my actions.
Why because you smoke a bit of "waccy" do you become enlightened? I honestly do not know why it was made illeagal, but I am a law abiding citizen of the UK and was proud till be a member of HM Customs and Excise aqnd even prouder to stand up in court and put drug runners in jail
Where do i start...firstly how dare you suggest that i use cannabis. i am trying to help people realise the shortcomings of our goverment to control the quality of what is one of the most common drugs on the market, i write as a person who pays a close interest in the way our goverment conducts itself and the effect that conduct has, such as brainwashing some people into believing statistics that are totally misleading in order to win the backing of braindeads! also if I may add that I have never influenced anyone to do anything in my life that would not be beneficial to them or their well being!
i have served my country in the armed forces and have travelled considerably, i would never have done so if I had been taking cannabis, i achieved many things in my life but the one think I will proudly defend is my ability to keep an open mind on all things and not to be influenced by others who talk about things they know nothing of.
Think man before you spout ignorant statements, you are obviously ill informed on this subject and I can only advise you to do some research on this given subject.AND DONT EVER MAKE ASSUMPTIONS!!!
Where do i start...firstly how dare you suggest that i use cannabis. i am trying to help people realise the shortcomings of our goverment to control the quality of what is one of the most common drugs on the market, i write as a person who pays a close interest in the way our goverment conducts itself and the effect that conduct has, such as brainwashing some people into believing statistics that are totally misleading in order to win the backing of braindeads! also if I may add that I have never influenced anyone to do anything in my life that would not be beneficial to them or their well being!
i have served my country in the armed forces and have travelled considerably, i would never have done so if I had been taking cannabis, i achieved many things in my life but the one think I will proudly defend is my ability to keep an open mind on all things and not to be influenced by others who talk about things they know nothing of.
Think man before you spout ignorant statements, you are obviously ill informed on this subject and I can only advise you to do some research on this given subject.AND DONT EVER MAKE ASSUMPTIONS!!!
Here here here!!!!
George Brims
05-Apr-06, 03:28
Getting back to the question raised earlier, I believe the reason Cannabis was originally made illegal was that the workers in Egypt building the Suez canal were tending to slack off after indulging in the weed on their breaks. Having made the use of the stuff illegal there, Egypt being at the time a British Protectorate, it was made illegal at home too. Prior to that its use was not that much frowned upon - indeed Queen Victoria used to use it for relief from menstrual cramps.
Recent research work has shown that Cannabis is in fact heavily addictive. However it is not eliminated from the body fast like the more notorious heroin, opium etc, so there's no "cold turkey" from withdrawal. When research subjects were given an enzyme that blocked the action of THC, the active ingredient, they abruptly exhibited the same withdrawal symptoms as opiate addicts.
As for legalisation, like every argument there are two sides to the coin. A case can be made that making it legal would make supply safer for the user, and *possibly* break the link between cannabis and other drugs. As long as you buy cannabis and heroin from the same unscrupulous creeps, one will be a "gateway" to the other. The other side of the coin is, as my late uncle, a family GP, used to say, that we already have enough legal drugs that harm people and we don't need another one.
Beware Golach they may make alcohol illegal one day, what would you say then,would you stick to your princapils and never drink again or will you buy your drink on the black market and become automaticaly branded a criminal?
By the way I was a smoker for over 40 years, I am not now, if the sale and consumption of alcohol was made illeagal, no doubt I could do the same and give up the drink.
I think it is time that legalisation of drugs was at least considered. There seems to be a complete no no about even discussin this but what we have in place isnt working so we need to look at alternatives and that means at least considering legalising and quality controlling the substances. No one seems prepared to even discuss it and that is ridiculous
Now I am a bit more enlightened
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4079668.stm
RandomHero
05-Apr-06, 11:34
If we ban alcohol what next? Ban tea and coffee too, they are addictive, they can have harmful effects, 100% of heroin users say they used coffee first, caffeine is a gateway drug.
If we ban tea and coffe then what? Chocolate would be a good candidate, it's addictive and causes people to be overweight, obesity is a major killer. Did you know that 98% of rapists and serial killers admitted to eating chocolate in the previous week?
After chocolate what next, sleep, it gives you halucinations. Do you know how many man hours a year are lost through sleeping? 100% of mass murderers are known to have "taken a nap" or "had a kip" (those are slang terms which have grown up around the sleep culture) in the previous 24 hours.
If we legalise cannabis what next? On the available data less people would smoke it, we have a far higher percentage of cannabis users than the Netherlands where it was decriminalised and the 2003 reclasification to class C has not led to an increase. I doubt it would make any significant difference at all to the number of users, it's already easily obtainable on most street corners, people are going to smoke it as what we do. We would save a lot of tax payers money which currently goes to policing, prosecuting and keeping people involved in the drugs trade in prison. We would deprive the drug runners of their source of income. The quality of the cannabis people smoke could be controlled leading to a reduction in the health risks. Cannabis could be taxed which would mean more money in the exchequer for hospitals, maternity units, pensioners.
And if we legalise cannabis then what next?
RandomHero
05-Apr-06, 11:37
[quote=RandomHero]
I am and I was working a hundred miles from Woodstock and should have been there.
Random Hero, where do you bury your head. I have seen cannabis openly smoked in some very high places on the social ladder. Cannabis is OK and accepted virtually everywhere as a fact of life.Heavier sentences?? The death penalty isn't enough in some countries to put a stop to it.If you put many more people in jail for drugs, there won't be enough room for real criminals. And how are you going to police your new heavier penalties? The police cannot even control the cannabis flow in a place as transparent as Caithness. Come into the real world, into the 21st century and bury your pride. Legally, politically and in many other ways, Great Britain sucks and its whole legal system is built on weak foundations, on top of a crumbling tower.
How can any sane person be proud of this crumbling edifice?
We cannot stop the drug trade by any means at our disposal and we and the government need to make big changes in our thinking and the law if we are to address the problem of poisonous substances being smoked by young people.
Nobody on this thread so far has stated that they know why cannabis is illegal. I would be interested in your views on this aspect of the problem.
That's not my job. I see people smoking it all the time so my head is not 'buried'. The area that I work in is full of it so I am not ignorant to it. I choose not to smoke it and I would not want my children or grand children smoking it.
Tea, coffee, nicotine, alcohol et al, can be addictive, however
A drug is neither moral nor immoral; it's just a compound.
The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human-being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an Asshole!
Frank Zappa [born 1940].
My opinion is that if you as an individual accept the responsibilities of any actions caused whilst under the influence of any form of drug, recreational or others, and you are not at risk to yourself or to the general public, then thats your decision. It is far to often we see statements in the local press with regards to violent behaviour, whereas the defendant states "that they where drunk/under the influence at the time" expecting the excuse to get them off the charge or at least a lesser conviction - BALDERDASH.
We all have a personal responsibility for our actions and if we react violently to others whilst influenced by whatever drug it is, then we have no defense of our actions and should be punished appropriately.
Instead of arguing the pro's and con's of legalisation of so-called recreational drugs, we should be asking the question, why does it seem to be a greater demand for these type of drugs in our communities and the damage they cause when abused... especially the younger generation.
Obviously certain illegal drugs have proved beneficial to certain people sufferring from various incapacities.
I personally believe that Canabis should remain illegal as the other fashionable drugs should be as well. If they where made legal, who's going to manage and control their production and resale? Surely not the government, they can't even sort out their own issues with the drug industry...
Ciao,
Dave the Rave.
dpw39 :cool:
Now I am a bit more enlightened
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4079668.stm
An excellent reference, esteemed older brother, and I am glad that the light of reason is permeating your sometimes closed mind. What you are seeing in this run down of history is a whitewashed BBC version of events.
Anslinger was in the pay of Hearst,who had bought a helluva lot of trees for paper pulp, Du Pont petro chemicals, who had invented rayon and nylon and the cotton growers of the southern states of the USA. In the UK, it was the cotton manufacturers backed by the Egyptian cotton growers who campaigned for the prohibition of cannabis. At the time in question, advances in farming technology meant that hemp became a major threat to the afore-mentioned money men. Hemp was, until then, one of the most valuable crops in the world. A schooner needed countless tons of hemp to keep it sailing(50 or 500 tons, I'm not sure which), all important documents like the bible and money were made from hemp paper, it can be made into cloth from canvas to silk-fine, it produces seeds which are rich in oil and protean, it is very easy to grow and actually benefits the ground it grows in by fixing carbon from CO2, it can be made into plastic and fibre boards and it is the fastest growing plant in the world. To protect the interests of the money men, cannabis had its reputation blackened to give credence to Anslinger's case which he presented to the government of the USA at a time when there were very few members present to vote against his Bill. It is believed that the immense fortunes of Hearst and Du Pont greased a few palms to facilitate the process.
All of a sudden, the most important plant in our reality was outlawed world-wide to serve the interests of the few.It was even grown in Caithness at Hempriggs and other places and was a major earner for the Earl of Caithness.
Recently, over the last ten to twenty years, there has been a move to reintroduce hemp products, but, if you wanted to buy the raw materials, you would have to go to Hungary(very expensive) or China to buy it. In India, the peasants, who used cannabis preparations for seventy percent of their illness's, couldn't get it. India sent a very clear paper on the goodness of hemp at the same time as the Egyptians but our enlightened government chose to take the Egyptian report as it was more in their financial interests to make hemp illegal. All of a sudden, hemp vanished from our reality and then the war came and hemp was in very short supply. One of the experiments conducted by the Yanks invented the strain knowm as skunk by genetically modifying hemp to make it grow faster. This the breed that Holland has made its fortune from. Now the government pay a healthy subsidy to farmers who want to grow it but the rules restrict the breeds available because the farmers are not allowed to grow anything with more than .0001% THC. This restricts the size and there are no factories in the UK to process the crop when harvested so not many farmers choose to grow it.
Now we have a hysterical attitude to a substance which has been used to the benefit of man for thousands of years so that the few can profit from ecollogically dangerous practices. Trees being felled by the million to make newspapers when the tree is our atmosphere filter. Hemp is a much better filter of greenhouse gasses and grows from seed to twenty feet in 4 to 5 months.
This whole sordid tale if a fair illustration of a thread I started in January. The human race is certifiable!!!!
Getting back to the question raised earlier, I believe the reason Cannabis was originally made illegal was that the workers in Egypt building the Suez canal were tending to slack off after indulging in the weed on their breaks. Having made the use of the stuff illegal there, Egypt being at the time a British Protectorate, it was made illegal at home too. Prior to that its use was not that much frowned upon - indeed Queen Victoria used to use it for relief from menstrual cramps.
Recent research work has shown that Cannabis is in fact heavily addictive. However it is not eliminated from the body fast like the more notorious heroin, opium etc, so there's no "cold turkey" from withdrawal. When research subjects were given an enzyme that blocked the action of THC, the active ingredient, they abruptly exhibited the same withdrawal symptoms as opiate addicts.
As for legalisation, like every argument there are two sides to the coin. A case can be made that making it legal would make supply safer for the user, and *possibly* break the link between cannabis and other drugs. As long as you buy cannabis and heroin from the same unscrupulous creeps, one will be a "gateway" to the other. The other side of the coin is, as my late uncle, a family GP, used to say, that we already have enough legal drugs that harm people and we don't need another one.
A fair post, Mr.Brims, and not much to argue about as your opinion is valid. However, this thread is about the problems caused by the fact that it is illegal and I am not arguing for the legalisation per se, but for something to be done to prevent young people taking in substances which are poisonous.
Valium and other similar drugs are causing infinitely more problems than they ever cured but we prescribe more and more to more and more people.Is this logical and right? I think not.Cannabis was used medicinally for thousands of years and for this invaluable natural medecine to be denied those who would benefit from it for purely financial reasons is crazy.
Cannabis only became illegal in Britain in September 1928 along with restrictions on the use of many other drugs which had previously not been subject to restriction.
The fallacy that cannabis legislation had anything to do with Egypt was in order to give the impression that prior to Europeans being involved in Egypt it's use in Europe was unknown.
The only conclusion I can draw is that the connection between cannabis and Egypt was to give the impression that decent, upright British Citizens were being led to the depths of immorality and depravity by habits given to them by "nasty, idle, treacherous Johnny Foreigner".
"Good grief, we must put a stop to it immediately! It's not British!"
The truth of the matter is that cannabis, like many other drugs, had been freely available and in use in Britain and Europe for centuries.
It was only during and after the First World War that Governments seem to have developed the habit of wanting to put restrictions on things people used for their recreation. (The Licensing Laws were first introduced during WW1, and then only as a temporary measure)
Of course, once they found they could get away with doing things like that then they just couldn't resist the temptation to do it again and again and again.
Oh, the joys of having POWER!"
Cannabis only became illegal in Britain in September 1928 along with restrictions on the use of many other drugs which had previously not been subject to restriction.
The fallacy that cannabis legislation had anything to do with Egypt was in order to give the impression that prior to Europeans being involved in Egypt it's use in Europe was unknown.
The only conclusion I can draw is that the connection between cannabis and Egypt was to give the impression that decent, upright British Citizens were being led to the depths of immorality and depravity by habits given to them by "nasty, idle, treacherous Johnny Foreigner".
"Good grief, we must put a stop to it immediately! It's not British!"
The truth of the matter is that cannabis, like many other drugs, had been freely available and in use in Britain and Europe for centuries.
It was only during and after the First World War that Governments seem to have developed the habit of wanting to put restrictions on things people used for their recreation. (The Licensing Laws were first introduced during WW1, and then only as a temporary measure)
Of course, once they found they could get away with doing things like that then they just couldn't resist the temptation to do it again and again and again.
Oh, the joys of having POWER!"
The points made about Egypt are not fallacious. Egypt submitted a paper at the request of Westminster as was India. Egypt stated that it made their workers lazy and indolent and, and as such made it undesirable. India submitted a report praising the effects of cannabis but the government of Britain decided to go with Egypt. This particular drug was the apparent reason for the removal of hemp.
Check the web site pointed out by Golach and my own posts subsequent. I deal with historical fact gleaned from the period 1920 to 1939, some of which are not in the public domain. Of course, those people who did a full investigation are not given credence because most of them were users and campaigners for legalisation. We have more or less lost the use of one of the most important plants on Earth because it was to the financial advantage of those who were already rich and couldn't care less about the effect they were having on the people and the ecology of our planet.
Because of the incredible duplicity of people in power in the USA and the UK,
our young people are smoking life threatening garbage. We need to redress the situation asap and stop pointlessly argueing the pros and cons of legalisation.
Ah, now we are singing from the same hymn book, or is it song sheet, I really must polish up on the latest buzz words.
I was relating the legislation and the date for building the Suez Canal. Of course the Government would choose the Egyptian report, it told them what they wanted to hear whereas the Indian Report didn't. As is usual, they cherry picked the things that suited them and cast the rest aside.
The politicians who believe that the solution to any problem, real or imagined, is to pass a law against it had arrived.
Unfortunately, they are still with us and even more unfortunately, they are not going to go away.
They take the easy way out, never mind the problem, make it illegal and we can then blame others for not putting a stop to it.
The belief that by retaining the current law as it stands will stop the use of cannabis is as realistic as the belief that Prohibition was going to stop people drinking alcohol. All that happens is that gangsters get very rich and people who would normally be reasonably law-abiding end up mixing with criminals and losing respect for the law.
The Governments own adverts for not buying smuggled cigarettes or pirate videos says as much by linking those actions with sustaining major criminal organisations.
Ah, now we are singing from the same hymn book, or is it song sheet, I really must polish up on the latest buzz words.
I was relating the legislation and the date for building the Suez Canal. Of course the Government would choose the Egyptian report, it told them what they wanted to hear whereas the Indian Report didn't. As is usual, they cherry picked the things that suited them and cast the rest aside.
The politicians who believe that the solution to any problem, real or imagined, is to pass a law against it had arrived.
Unfortunately, they are still with us and even more unfortunately, they are not going to go away.
They take the easy way out, never mind the problem, make it illegal and we can then blame others for not putting a stop to it.
The belief that by retaining the current law as it stands will stop the use of cannabis is as realistic as the belief that Prohibition was going to stop people drinking alcohol. All that happens is that gangsters get very rich and people who would normally be reasonably law-abiding end up mixing with criminals and losing respect for the law.
The Governments own adverts for not buying smuggled cigarettes or pirate videos says as much by linking those actions with sustaining major criminal organisations.
Good grief, a consensus. Can you see any way forward in which the problem underlined by this thread can be alleviated or solved. Short of blanket legalisation, I can see no way forward.
weeboyagee
05-Apr-06, 20:38
[QUOTE=clash67]
I'm not the 'older generation', thank you very much.
Boo-hoo..............I unfortunately am since I last posted! :(
Anyway or not,........gleber2 knows from previous posts where I stand on this one. I have never been pro-legalisation of drugs. I am with golach on this one and have been for ages.
Legalising this drug allows the weed to become legally accepted in society. This class of drug is the bouncing board to the harder drugs beyond. This problem is distinctly different from alcohol and cigarettes - the change of mood and behaviour due to the drug is very different from the effects of alcohol and smoking. However, just because alcohol is legal (albeit with restrictions) and smoking is legal (albeit with the same...) does not mean that society has to rubber stamp the use of cannabis and the like and bring yet another addictive substance into the realm where it will cost the tax payer the multi millions to police and administrate.
We sent the wrong message to the younger generation with smoking and drinking, do we really need to do the same wrong thing by legallising this drug? My mate smoked it regularly when he was younger. He gave it up years and years ago,..........not starting means not having to stop. Legalise it and many more than those who use it now will use it after it becomes legal.
I would much rather spend the extra on the crooks and pedlars of the illegal distribution and use than the extra on the policing and administrating!
Good grief, a consensus. Can you see any way forward in which the problem underlined by this thread can be alleviated or solved. Short of blanket legalisation, I can see no way forward.
Dont include me in your consensus, I may have said earlier that I am more enlightened, by that I meant I know a bit more of the reasons it was made illeagal and when. But I stand by my earlier statements and I vote for making Cannabis a Class A drug, not a Class C drug.
I'm quite impressed Gleber. You have managed to present a coherant argument against prohibition without actually calling for legalisation. Thats clever and I applaud you.
I try and avoid these threads now, mainly because I understand the fears shown by Golach and Random Hero and Angie and now Weeboyagee.
What does anger me though, is when committed alcohol guzzlers like themselves, judge cannabis users from a moral high ground. Of course theres problems with cannabis use, but if that was the reason for their disgust towards cannabis users,(protecting them against themselves) surely their moral superiority would also extend to the dangers and destructive qualities of alcohol? Thats a question by the way.
Alcohol has no competition in the mind bending stakes. I believe that fact alone is responsible for the havoc John Barleycorn wreacks on alcohol consuming societies.
No inteligent adult is unaware of that havoc, but the argument that cannabis should not be de-criminalised because we have enough problems with alcohol is probably nothing but a cover for alcohol guzzling, dope condemning hypocryts. I wish i could find a nicer way of saying that but I am lost for words.
That being said, that is the area anyone advocating legalisation of cannabis will need to address. Why do inteligent people like them, condemn and degrade people who would chose to use cannabis while sitting with a nice wee malt in their hands?
I dont believe for one minute that telling the untold story of why hemp was criminalised in the first place will do anything to change the minds of Golach or Random hero or acameron ot weeboyagee.
I dont really know what it is they are frightened off, or why their defence of alcohol and condemnation of cannabis is so strong. From where I'm sitting its an odd one but that is what will need to be addressed, not why it was prohibited in the first place.
Dont include me in your consensus, I may have said earlier that I am more enlightened, by that I meant I know a bit more of the reasons it was made illeagal and when. But I stand by my earlier statements and I vote for making Cannabis a Class A drug, not a Class C drug.
The consensus was with Jaws.You and I will never agree on this subject. The rest of your post continues to illustrate your continued ignorance and bigoted prejudice on a subject which goes way beyond personal feeling and which can only be solved by those with concern and knowledge with no egotistical,personal axe to grind. Do you think that the police will make any difference to the escalating use of all drugs if they make pot Class A? What will that achieve, I ask you? Nothing that has been done and nothing that can be done by the combined police of the Western world has made or will make a whit of difference or made the slightest dent in the trade world wide.
Come down from your cloud Golach and see the situation clear of your prejudiced bigoted glasses.
I dont really know what it is they are frightened off, or why their defence of alcohol and condemnation of cannabis is so strong. From where I'm sitting its an odd one but that is what will need to be addressed, not why it was prohibited in the first place.
Gleeber, what do you not understand, the word "Illegal" or what, the use of Alcohol is not illeagal, the use of Cannabis is. Alcohol has never made me violent or to commit any crime, I have never driven under the influence, because I dont drive. I use alcohol as a social tool to relax in the company of friends,and what I love about it now is that Tobacco has also been banned in buildings that are in public use sic my Local.
And before you come back at me and say that the use of Cannabis is used as a similar social tool in the company of friends, I dont care, its use is illeagal, alcohol is not.
[quote=RandomHero]
Boo-hoo..............I unfortunately am since I last posted! :(
Anyway or not,........gleber2 knows from previous posts where I stand on this one. I have never been pro-legalisation of drugs. I am with golach on this one and have been for ages.
Legalising this drug allows the weed to become legally accepted in society. This class of drug is the bouncing board to the harder drugs beyond. This problem is distinctly different from alcohol and cigarettes - the change of mood and behaviour due to the drug is very different from the effects of alcohol and smoking. However, just because alcohol is legal (albeit with restrictions) and smoking is legal (albeit with the same...) does not mean that society has to rubber stamp the use of cannabis and the like and bring yet another addictive substance into the realm where it will cost the tax payer the multi millions to police and administrate.
We sent the wrong message to the younger generation with smoking and drinking, do we really need to do the same wrong thing by legallising this drug? My mate smoked it regularly when he was younger. He gave it up years and years ago,..........not starting means not having to stop. Legalise it and many more than those who use it now will use it after it becomes legal.
I would much rather spend the extra on the crooks and pedlars of the illegal distribution and use than the extra on the policing and administrating!
Well young fellow, I was going to answer your post but my old mate Gleeber has made a case which I feel I don't need to add to. What is it, in your 40 year ignorance, that makes you so afraid of the weed. I bet you and your cronies consumed a fair ammount of self righteous alcohol at your party but that of course is different.
I always get sucked into your fixed ways Golach and end up being rude to you when we fall out. Not this time though brother, I love you man.
Peace
I always get sucked into your fixed ways Golach and end up being rude to you when we fall out. Not this time though brother, I love you man.
Peace
Im no falling oot wi ye Gleeber, just disagreeing with you, :lol: an I dinna understand this " I love you man" statements, I dont swing that way either.
Im no falling oot wi ye Gleeber, just disagreeing with you, :lol: an I dinna understand this " I love you man" statements, I dont swing that way either.
If 'is Gleber wis at way inclined, he widna fancy ye eether. Yur too owld.:o)
Random Hero... rage and weed? Quite frankly, you know nothing about pot then. I use pot occasionally, almost everyone I know uses pot or has at sometime in their lives and the few that have not have the same deluded view as yourself. There is nothing wrong with it except for the facts that Gleber2 points out.
In fact plants of the Cannabis genus could single-handly save the planet! Alcohol is HUNDREDS.... maybe thousands of times worse then any smoke off a spliff! But, I might add.. smoking pot is probably not so good for you. It sure is tasty in cakes tho and steeped for tea not to mention it is far more effective and potent taken these ways rather than smoking it!
Secondly, those statistics are CRAP! It's the same thing with Cancer death statistics. 99% of people who die that were suffering from cancer die from the TREATMENT of cancer... not the disease itself! yet, they are down in the statistics as dying from the disease which takes many forms but is generally known as CANCER. So, careful with the statistics.
Pot should be legal! Every "drug" is legal in some countries.. their probs with it are no better or worse than they were before it was legalised..
Besides, the prescription drugs (Prozac for example?) they dole out to anyone who asks & food additives (aspartame) & flouride are FAR worse than anything that grows in the ground. These things should be illegal!
Random Hero... rage and weed? Quite frankly, you know nothing about pot then. I use pot occasionally, almost everyone I know uses pot or has at sometime in their lives and the few that have not have the same deluded view as yourself. There is nothing wrong with it except for the facts that Gleber2 points out.
In fact plants of the Cannabis genus could single-handly save the planet! Alcohol is HUNDREDS.... maybe thousands of times worse then any smoke off a spliff! But, I might add.. smoking pot is probably not so good for you. It sure is tasty in cakes tho and steeped for tea not to mention it is far more effective and potent taken these ways rather than smoking it!
Secondly, those statistics are CRAP! It's the same thing with Cancer death statistics. 99% of people who die that were suffering from cancer die from the TREATMENT of cancer... not the disease itself! yet, they are down in the statistics as dying from the disease which takes many forms but is generally known as CANCER. So, careful with the statistics.
Pot should be legal! Every "drug" is legal in some countries.. their probs with it are no better or worse than they were before it was legalised..
Besides, the prescription drugs (Prozac for example?) they dole out to anyone who asks & food additives (aspartame) & flouride are FAR worse than anything that grows in the ground. These things should be illegal!
Weel said, that man!! On one point, Holland has the least drug problem in Europe. Speaks for itself, don't it??
Gleeber, what do you not understand, the word "Illegal" or what, the use of Alcohol is not illeagal, the use of Cannabis is. Alcohol has never made me violent or to commit any crime, I have never driven under the influence, because I dont drive. I use alcohol as a social tool to relax in the company of friends,and what I love about it now is that Tobacco has also been banned in buildings that are in public use sic my Local.
And before you come back at me and say that the use of Cannabis is used as a similar social tool in the company of friends, I dont care, its use is illeagal, alcohol is not.
So your argument is that you are opposed to the legalisation of cannabis because it is illegal.
Random Hero... rage and weed? Quite frankly, you know nothing about pot then. I use pot occasionally, almost everyone I know uses pot or has at sometime in their lives and the few that have not have the same deluded view as yourself. There is nothing wrong with it except for the facts that Gleber2 points out.
In fact plants of the Cannabis genus could single-handly save the planet! Alcohol is HUNDREDS.... maybe thousands of times worse then any smoke off a spliff! But, I might add.. smoking pot is probably not so good for you. It sure is tasty in cakes tho and steeped for tea not to mention it is far more effective and potent taken these ways rather than smoking it!
Secondly, those statistics are CRAP! It's the same thing with Cancer death statistics. 99% of people who die that were suffering from cancer die from the TREATMENT of cancer... not the disease itself! yet, they are down in the statistics as dying from the disease which takes many forms but is generally known as CANCER. So, careful with the statistics.
Pot should be legal! Every "drug" is legal in some countries.. their probs with it are no better or worse than they were before it was legalised..
Besides, the prescription drugs (Prozac for example?) they dole out to anyone who asks & food additives (aspartame) & flouride are FAR worse than anything that grows in the ground. These things should be illegal!
Well Random Hero, what do you think?....this rant maybe explains the views expressed on another thread in here, ref the Usa,
Well Random Hero, what do you think?....this rant maybe explains the views expressed on another thread in here, ref the Usa,
So, your uninformed prejudiced view is cool but Sjwahwah's is a rant. He is right and you are wrong. End of story. This thread is not about conspiracy theories but about the new dangers faced by our children and it is being turned into a circus with the same old arguements being presented by the same bigots. The legalisation or nonlegalisation is not important as far as this problem is concerned. We have heard all the stories time and time again in this Forum. Every time the subject comes up the same tales are brought out and dusted. All attempts to curb the escalation of drugs has failed, is failing, and will continue to fail. Time to change our tack and try to do something about the situation, not bicker like children who need to find a new tune.
Lived in Edinburgh for 15 years and seeing and working with young guys and girls smoking "the stuff" like sweeties - and pure or impure there was a definite decline in there attitude to everything.
There is enough nonsense out there with binge drinking - smoking - perscripted and non perscripted drugs that legalising cannabis has to be a big fat no!
I am not an angel by any means - I smoke and I have an occasional drink mainly through peer pressure when I was younger and I am guessing that the majority of people who take drink, tobacco, cannabis or drugs of any kind have done so through peer pressure. If a child can grow up without the influence of any artificial “high” they would lead far better lives and be better people for it.
This last statement is very interesting. Been reading alot lately about just this thing.
Pretty much every child these days is brought into this world on drugs. Highly dangerous drugs in fact. Diamorphine, nitrous oxide, epidural (more morphine + anasthetic) Then at 3 months and at several stages subsequently... they get vaccinations. Then children are fed food contaminated with pesticides, additives, preservatives & maybe flouridated water if you live in one of these areas... etc. Then they learn as a young adult.. caffiene is a very socially acceptable drug and use should be encouraged to keep up production all through your life. As they get older... all this crap they've been systematically contaminating their body with over the years catches up and they end up with all types of physical & mental problems that lands them with a pharmacy in their bathroom to supply them for the rest of their days and keep them "healthy". Strange.. this concept that is so widely accepted. Nearly EVERY older person in this country is on some type of drug for something! Cholesteral, blood pressure... etc.,etc. This is NOT normal! Then when they die, they're more than likely on a cocktail of drugs too.
Your statement about "highs" is interesting too. Yes, you could call the effect of pot a "high". But, have you ever roasted a whole bulb of garlic and ate it? Now that is a high! Spices and herbs in curries can give you a high! Just as the types of fruits and vegetables you eat can also make you more energetic and can enhance your mood and health. Eating nuts induces intense dreaming when you sleep! Better ban all nuts... especially that evil cashew.
Hashish in this country is filled with rubbish... boot polish the works.. as Gleber2 has pointed out. What is wrong with legalising it and then people can grow it if they want too... and use the pure whole plant. It's medicinal properties have been suppressed for far too long. If my child had MS or glaucoma it would be first on my recommended list before any prescribed chemical concoction.
Cannabis is a herb. I have studied Herbal Medicine & Herb Culture for nearly 7 years. I make my own medicines. I grow my own medicines. I understand the medicinal, dietary, industrial and agricultural uses of the various species of the Cannabis genus. Of course I should point out the family of plants known as Cannabaceae contain 3 genera including Humulus which of course contains the species Humulus lupulus generally known as hops as well as the Cannabis genus. Seems as though Golach's pint and my cake are first cousins.
This plant has been demonised! Are there any other plants that have demonised in this way?
Since when are our lawmakers more intelligent than Mother Earth herself? This is just plain arrogance and blasphemy.
Golach---> When they make a law that forces you to drug your children will you offer them up then for the sake of law?
And if we legalise cannabis then what next?
Your argument has no merit, it is as false as the "what if everyone in the world?" argument parents con children with. The argument could be applied to any new law, "if the chancellor puts a penny on income taxe then what next? He'll be putting a penny on VAT as well and next year it will be 10 pence", "if the government bans fox hunting then what next? Before you know it it will be illegal to put down a mouse trap", "if the government makes homosexuality legal then what next? Before you know it they'll be making it compulsory".
Your argument has no merit, it is as false as the "what if everyone in the world?" argument parents con children with. The argument could be applied to any new law, "if the chancellor puts a penny on income taxe then what next? He'll be putting a penny on VAT as well and next year it will be 10 pence", "if the government bans fox hunting then what next? Before you know it it will be illegal to put down a mouse trap", "if the government makes homosexuality legal then what next? Before you know it they'll be making it compulsory".
How unusual to hear logical horse sense on this forum on this subject. My hat of to Fred and Sjwahwah for their posts. I have a completely open mind on the subject and, if presented with a logical and believable view from the anti brigade, I would reconsider my opinions. How nice it would be if the bigoted and prejudiced anti's would do the same.
[QUOTE=sjwahwah]If my child had MS or glaucoma it would be first on my recommended list before any prescribed chemical concoction.
QUOTE]
I totally agree with this statement, and I also agree that "hash" is far more harmless than any prescribed drug.
There seems to be a spectrum of different opinions but there is a balance now already in place where some people smoke it (or in Sjwahwah case, bakes it up in a Delia Smith recipe) and some people who don’t. Then there are levels of acceptance and everybody has a different place to put themselves in that spectrum through experience or upbringing.
In continental Europe the majority of countries does not have the same drinking culture as we do, where as people in Europe go out have a drink, they chat and eat and most of the people do not overindulge. We in the UK however have this “ego thing” where who can do the most and the strongest is the winner and there is difficulty to control themselves.
If the substance in question was made legal companies/sellers would find that many loopholes to sell it to as many people as possible no matter what ages (is alochopops still on sale?) And of course the “ego thing” and “peer-pressure”would materialise and harder drugs would be used more and more.
I would agree that making it legal would work, but not in this country. A reminder of the British mentality of exploiting gaps in the market, and overindulgence tells me that it should stay “illegal”.
Although I think “illegal” is maybe a strong word to describe the situation but let’s keep the balance and leave it as it is.
[quote=sjwahwah]If my child had MS or glaucoma it would be first on my recommended list before any prescribed chemical concoction.
QUOTE]
I totally agree with this statement, and I also agree that "hash" is far more harmless than any prescribed drug.
There seems to be a spectrum of different opinions but there is a balance now already in place where some people smoke it (or in Sjwahwah case, bakes it up in a Delia Smith recipe) and some people who don’t. Then there are levels of acceptance and everybody has a different place to put themselves in that spectrum through experience or upbringing.
In continental Europe the majority of countries does not have the same drinking culture as we do, where as people in Europe go out have a drink, they chat and eat and most of the people do not overindulge. We in the UK however have this “ego thing” where who can do the most and the strongest is the winner and there is difficulty to control themselves.
If the substance in question was made legal companies/sellers would find that many loopholes to sell it to as many people as possible no matter what ages (is alochopops still on sale?) And of course the “ego thing” and “peer-pressure”would materialise and harder drugs would be used more and more.
I would agree that making it legal would work, but not in this country. A reminder of the British mentality of exploiting gaps in the market, and overindulgence tells me that it should stay “illegal”.
Although I think “illegal” is maybe a strong word to describe the situation but let’s keep the balance and leave it as it is.
Make it illegal and ban it. It does not work. Legalise everything, control it, understand it and educate the public of all ages honestly and we might make progress. Fair enough, it's only a might but it's more than we've got right now.
[quote=acameron]
Make it illegal and ban it. It does not work. Legalise everything, control it, understand it and educate the public of all ages honestly and we might make progress. Fair enough, it's only a might but it's more than we've got right now.
Alcohol is legal and controlled there is enough understanding of that but it is still mass sold and abused– as I said before, there is a balance in place already where the only way I can describe in a sentence is “Its legal but not officially”.
Here ends my thoughts and opinions on this matter :)
Don’t rock the boat; it seems to be floating just fine.
[quote=Gleber2]
Alcohol is legal and controlled there is enough understanding of that but it is still mass sold and abused– as I said before, there is a balance in place already where the only way I can describe in a sentence is “Its legal but not officially”.
Here ends my thoughts and opinions on this matter :)
Don’t rock the boat; it seems to be floating just fine.
Tell that to some-one who has spent a year in Porterfield or Barlinnie.
I have been following this thread with alot of interest and I still have reservations about whether it should be legalised however as a parent of two teenagers I feel that education, not ignorance is the key(for parents as well as kids. Whether cannibis is legal or illegal makes little difference to most teenagers today - they will try it or not regardless. Peer pressure plays a large part in the decisions they make. Leah Bett's father visited the schools in the area and he had a huge effect on my son and his views on drugs etc.for the better I might add. I agree that cigarettes and alcohol are dangerous for kids and I have experienced the devastation alcohol can cause in a family but because they are more socially acceptable there is not the same debate.
I have been following this thread with alot of interest and I still have reservations about whether it should be legalised however as a parent of two teenagers I feel that education, not ignorance is the key(for parents as well as kids. Whether cannibis is legal or illegal makes little difference to most teenagers today - they will try it or not regardless. Peer pressure plays a large part in the decisions they make. Leah Bett's father visited the schools in the area and he had a huge effect on my son and his views on drugs etc.for the better I might add. I agree that cigarettes and alcohol are dangerous for kids and I have experienced the devastation alcohol can cause in a family but because they are more socially acceptable there is not the same debate.
Mr Betts has said, in public recently, that we have lost the drug war and everything should be legalised.
Mr Betts has said, in public recently, that we have lost the drug war and everything should be legalised.
I think I read somewhere that he no longer goes round all the schools which I think is a pity. Speaking personally he certainly gave the kids here something to think about and gave them the facts as they were with no preaching etc.
Whitewater
06-Apr-06, 22:55
I have read through this thread with great interest, followed all the opinions and arguments both for, and against legalisation of drugs, particularly cannabis.
I have always been open minded on this, in my young days the opportunity to smoke hash was always present, but I declined, not through any great moral stance, but simply because I was into sport, and was of the opinion that smoking either hash or tobacco was bad for me. I did however, always enjoy a glass of wine, or a beer or two, and as long as I didn't over indulge it did not affect me. But sadly I've seen too many of my colleagues who overdone it, get thrown out of teams, jobs, and loose their families and livelyhoods, but as I thought at that time it was the choice they had made. Now I am older and wiser and know that alcoholism is a disease that has to be treated and sadly the person whom it affects is not aware of it.
I feel the same thing happens with drugs, but a lot more damage is caused to the people who take them, not because of the drug, but because of the adulteration of the pure substance with any impurity or rubbish which happens to be on hand, and is then added by the unscrupulous suppliers and drug barons who are only in it to make a quick buck. If the sale of drugs (particularly cannabis) was legalised there would be no need for anybody to suffer because of a bad dose, it would finish at a stroke all the gang wars, release the police for other duties (like catching motorists).
I think the young people of today should be educated on drug use, told the causes and effects, both good and bad, and after that, they at least can make an educated choice, and if drugs are legalised, know they were using a pure substance.
As somebody has already said on this thread, we have all been fed on a cocktail of drugs since we came into the world, so goodness knows what effect they will have on our bodies and the suffering they will cause us all before we leave this magical place.
I have read through this thread with great interest, followed all the opinions and arguments both for, and against legalisation of drugs, particularly cannabis.
I have always been open minded on this, in my young days the opportunity to smoke hash was always present, but I declined, not through any great moral stance, but simply because I was into sport, and was of the opinion that smoking either hash or tobacco was bad for me. I did however, always enjoy a glass of wine, or a beer or two, and as long as I didn't over indulge it did not affect me. But sadly I've seen too many of my colleagues who overdone it, get thrown out of teams, jobs, and loose their families and livelyhoods, but as I thought at that time it was the choice they had made. Now I am older and wiser and know that alcoholism is a disease that has to be treated and sadly the person whom it affects is not aware of it.
I feel the same thing happens with drugs, but a lot more damage is caused to the people who take them, not because of the drug, but because of the adulteration of the pure substance with any impurity or rubbish which happens to be on hand, and is then added by the unscrupulous suppliers and drug barons who are only in it to make a quick buck. If the sale of drugs (particularly cannabis) was legalised there would be no need for anybody to suffer because of a bad dose, it would finish at a stroke all the gang wars, release the police for other duties (like catching motorists).
I think the young people of today should be educated on drug use, told the causes and effects, both good and bad, and after that, they at least can make an educated choice, and if drugs are legalised, know they were using a pure substance.
As somebody has already said on this thread, we have all been fed on a cocktail of drugs since we came into the world, so goodness knows what effect they will have on our bodies and the suffering they will cause us all before we leave this magical place.
Thanks, Whitewater, for a fine and intelligent response to a problem which goes way beyond the pros and cons of cannabis legalisation. You unlike other
blinkered people on the forum, have seen that the criminal aspect will go completely if all drugs are legalised. Roll on. Did you know that a large percentage of drugs sold in the UK are supplied by Russians and the ammount of money removed from the British economy as a result is unbelievable.
Thanks, Whitewater, for a fine and intelligent response to a problem which goes way beyond the pros and cons of cannabis legalisation. You unlike other
blinkered people on the forum, have seen that the criminal aspect will go completely if all drugs are legalised. Roll on. Did you know that a large percentage of drugs sold in the UK are supplied by Russians and the ammount of money removed from the British economy as a result is unbelievable.
I am insulted at your "blinkered people" insult - from the start of this thread the only blinkered person on here is yourself. Any point of view that doesnt fall in line with yours is responded by you negatively.
And you call yourself open-minded!
No doubt Mr Gleber2 will again have the last word.
A Very Unhappy Acameron
sassylass
07-Apr-06, 01:39
....Besides, the prescription drugs (Prozac for example?) they dole out to anyone who asks & food additives (aspartame) & flouride are FAR worse than anything that grows in the ground. These things should be illegal!
That statement is idiotic. Do you know anything about the value Prozac has for true depression? For the person in need, it's a Godsend. Sometimes medicines are necessary. Granted, it is generally healthier to ingest natural, whole foods as opposed to chemicals/food additives, but would you eat a toadstool? Or foxglove leaves? Or mistletoe? I think not. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good for you.
That being said, you will probably be surprised to know that I am in favour of legalizing marijuana. I see many more benefits in taking control of it than not. In particular, I think it has much untapped value for cancer patients.
It makes no sense that alcohol and tobacco are legal and marijuana is not. They all alter your body chemistry, the only difference are their labels ...."legal" versus "illegal".
That statement is idiotic. Do you know anything about the value Prozac has for true depression? For the person in need, it's a Godsend. Sometimes medicines are necessary. Granted, it is generally healthier to ingest natural, whole foods as opposed to chemicals/food additives, but would you eat a toadstool? Or foxglove leaves? Or mistletoe? I think not. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good for you.
That being said, you will probably be surprised to know that I am in favour of legalizing marijuana. I see many more benefits in taking control of it than not. In particular, I think it has much untapped value for cancer patients.
It makes no sense that alcohol and tobacco are legal and marijuana is not. They all alter your body chemistry, the only difference are their labels ...."legal" versus "illegal".
I've never felt a need to take prozac but I've eaten a helluva lot of toadstools and I used to love mistletoe tea and foxglove can be an important healing herb if used correctly. There was an awful lot less depression before the tranquiliser was invented.
Delighted with the rest of your post. Herbs, spices and food additives when mixed together in the right ratio can create a synergetic reaction which is much more powerful than street pot. Everything you ingest alters your body chemistry so why single out Cannabis?
I am insulted at your "blinkered people" insult - from the start of this thread the only blinkered person on here is yourself. Any point of view that doesnt fall in line with yours is responded by you negatively.
And you call yourself open-minded!
No doubt Mr Gleber2 will again have the last word.
A Very Unhappy Acameron
I am sorry if I offended you but if you find that a cap fits you don't have to wear it. I've been studying this problem from both sides for over thirty years and have, in that time covered almost all the angles. If I use this accumulated information to refute arguements that I cannot agree with then I am doing what everyone else is doing who posts on this thread. I did not start this thread to argue the pros and cons of cannabis legalisation but the same old tired arguements were re-aired immediately. I don't think that any of my replies were,in fact, negative and I completely refute your point that I am blinkered as far as this subject is concerned. As far as having the last word is concerned, you imply a childish petulance which I completely deny.
The subject of this thread I consider to be too important to be taken lightly and I am trying to arrive at a solution that will do something to redress a situation that is getting completely out of hand and more damaging with every day that passes. Those who know what they are talking about are the ones who are of a similar mind to myself. The other views I have seen on this thread indicate a great lack of positive knowledge and a lot of mistaken belief. I believe I have been quite straightforward in my words and my points when I have replied to them and have not pulled my punches in these replies. I will continue to call a spade a spade and if a very unhappy Acameron feels so strongly about it, don't read my posts.
That statement is idiotic. Do you know anything about the value Prozac has for true depression? For the person in need, it's a Godsend. Sometimes medicines are necessary. Granted, it is generally healthier to ingest natural, whole foods as opposed to chemicals/food additives, but would you eat a toadstool? Or foxglove leaves? Or mistletoe? I think not. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good for you.
That being said, you will probably be surprised to know that I am in favour of legalizing marijuana. I see many more benefits in taking control of it than not. In particular, I think it has much untapped value for cancer patients.
It makes no sense that alcohol and tobacco are legal and marijuana is not. They all alter your body chemistry, the only difference are their labels ...."legal" versus "illegal".
First of all, Mistletoe is a highly useful medicine. It's used as a tranquiliser, a diuretic and an immune enhancer. It has been used with success to treat cancer and epilepsy. Our Scottish ancestors used the juice of mistletoe berries in traditional highland medicine for treating external cancers.
Foxglove is the MOST IMPORTANT cardiovascular agent in modern medicine!!
Toadstools are mushrooms lady! And hardly any of them will harm you. Edible ones are a valuable source of protein. Great if your a vegetarian!
Secondly, for the person in need... Prozac is a godsend??
Psychiatry is the conductor of the social control orchestra!
Not to mention it's highly oppressive and coercive practice. Psychiatry supports and defends the power structure, practices and even appearances of the status quo! selecting out "defective" individuals for "treatment" (drugs and if you don't comply, electroshock!)
They tell people who come to them for help with emotional distress that they are biologically defective. Eventhough there is no such evidence to support this view. They assume adjustment to society (conformity) is good and failure to adjust is the result of "mental illness". They also tell "patients" mental illness is a disease and a result of biological or genetic defects and that it is chronic, progressive and CANNOT be cured. So, then they need to be "treated" with "medication" (drugs).
RUBBISH! People that are experiencing distress need to release the distress not suppress it with drugs! I know SEVERAL people on Prozac.. they're like zombies and will never break free of their distress until they are able to release it properly! People work far too long, stressfully and with no breaks for needed sessions of unproductivity. There is no such thing as the magic pill and I ain't the only "idiot" that knows so!
And now there's another thread!
First of all, Mistletoe is a highly useful medicine. It's used as a tranquiliser, a diuretic and an immune enhancer. It has been used with success to treat cancer and epilepsy. Our Scottish ancestors used the juice of mistletoe berries in traditional highland medicine for treating external cancers.
Foxglove is the MOST IMPORTANT cardiovascular agent in modern medicine!!
Toadstools are mushrooms lady! And hardly any of them will harm you. Edible ones are a valuable source of protein. Great if your a vegetarian!
Secondly, for the person in need... Prozac is a godsend??
Psychiatry is the conductor of the social control orchestra!
Not to mention it's highly oppressive and coercive practice. Psychiatry supports and defends the power structure, practices and even appearances of the status quo! selecting out "defective" individuals for "treatment" (drugs and if you don't comply, electroshock!)
They tell people who come to them for help with emotional distress that they are biologically defective. Eventhough there is no such evidence to support this view. They assume adjustment to society (conformity) is good and failure to adjust is the result of "mental illness". They also tell "patients" mental illness is a disease and a result of biological or genetic defects and that it is chronic, progressive and CANNOT be cured. So, then they need to be "treated" with "medication" (drugs).
RUBBISH! People that are experiencing distress need to release the distress not suppress it with drugs! I know SEVERAL people on Prozac.. they're like zombies and will never break free of their distress until they are able to release it properly! People work far too long, stressfully and with no breaks for needed sessions of unproductivity. There is no such thing as the magic pill and I ain't the only "idiot" that knows so!
And now there's another thread!
Ah,the cold light of logic and obvious knowledge. Without your admirable rhetoric, I think I made similar points. I wouldn't by choice eat amanitas muscarina or amanitas philides(sp) but I can't think of any other funghi which would harm you.
Secondly, for the person in need... Prozac is a godsend??
Psychiatry is the conductor of the social control orchestra!
Not to mention it's highly oppressive and coercive practice. Psychiatry supports and defends the power structure, practices and even appearances of the status quo! selecting out "defective" individuals for "treatment" (drugs and if you don't comply, electroshock!)
They tell people who come to them for help with emotional distress that they are biologically defective. Eventhough there is no such evidence to support this view. They assume adjustment to society (conformity) is good and failure to adjust is the result of "mental illness". They also tell "patients" mental illness is a disease and a result of biological or genetic defects and that it is chronic, progressive and CANNOT be cured. So, then they need to be "treated" with "medication" (drugs).
RUBBISH! People that are experiencing distress need to release the distress not suppress it with drugs! I know SEVERAL people on Prozac.. they're like zombies and will never break free of their distress until they are able to release it properly! People work far too long, stressfully and with no breaks for needed sessions of unproductivity. There is no such thing as the magic pill and I ain't the only "idiot" that knows so!
And now there's another thread!
yeah for sure this is another thread, i've taken prozac after suffering from post natal depression, and yes it was a godsend, it enabled me to gain a perspective and did not leave me feeling like a zombie, the first three months are grim but it takes that long to build up the extra levels of seratonim in the brain, yes depression is a chemical imbalance, alcohol and drugs make it worse. I agree that the pills do not "cure" the problem but they do help, you have to take steps doing that yourself, depression is definately a self help illness and you need to reprogramme your brain away from the negative impulses and thoughts. You don't say if you have every been a user of mental health services or suffered from a mental health condition, i have and have found CPNs and the psychiastrists to be incredibly helpful and informative. Unless you have ever suffered from this then how can you comment on what is bad or good about it......
As for the main thread of legalising hash, im all for it, its quite clear that just because somethings illegal doesn't mean that people arn't going to do it....the problem is there, its been around for hundreds of years, if all drugs were legalised then it takes away from the rebel element, it would remove a large majority of dealers. I agree that education is the key and everyone should be made aware of the risks before they take anything. Drink is by far more dangerous than smoking pot, it is more physically and psycologically addictive. Abuse of a substance wether it is illegal or legal happens all the time and it is the nature of abuse that needs to be tackled. I dont feel that they should be legalised purely for quality control but the facts are that drugs are around, people will take them, what the government agencies have tried isn't working.
Incidentally it is also illegal to be drunk in a pub (law of 1872)....how many people can honestly hold up there hands and say they have never done that.....
Whitewater
07-Apr-06, 13:23
I see this thread is taking a slightly different track now, and I continue to be interested, particularly on the use of anti-depressants. Luckily I have no need for them myself as yet, but who knows what the future will bring.
In my close circle of friends, I have one who lost his wife two years ago now, and was on a steady decline, refusing to go out with his friends for a night etc. etc. always making an excuse, loosing interest in all around him, and drinking far too much, (on his own) This went on until a few months ago, when somebody managed to get him to a doctor, he was diagnosed as being deeply depressed, and put on what he calls his "Happy pills". What a difference in his attitude and well being, he is slowly becoming sociable again. All I can say is thank goodness for his "happy pills" no matter what they contain.
I am also aware of many young mothers who have become deeply depressed after giving birth, and have had to have some kind of anti-depressant to get them through, what was for them, a very bad time.
If people need help from drugs, no matter what the type, to get them through, what for some people, can be a dreadful and frightening life, the drug should be given along with professional advice from their doctor or psychiatrist.
Trouble is that many psychiatrists, although having good intentions, still do not know enough about the human mind and emotions to be able to treat some conditions properly or impliment a cure.
This is a good and interesting thread and as the noise abatement man would say "pleathe uthe control on your temperth and no thlagging otherth for thenthible opinionth, which are oppothed or oppothite to your own"
Gleber2 and your pal sjwahwah, the other heeder, I am glad I am not one of your disciples and follow in your ways, or I would not now have a job as a tour guide, as I was drug tested today proir to being accepted for the job. This is the first time that this has ever been done to me in 50 years of constant employment. I passed, clean as a whistle, as I knew I would.
I think all Employers should do this on a yearly basis to all employees.
Gleber2 and your pal sjwahwah, the other heeder, I am glad I am not one of your disciples and follow in your ways, or I would not now have a job as a tour guide, as I was drug tested today proir to being accepted for the job. This is the first time that this has ever been done to me in 50 years of constant employment. I passed, clean as a whistle, as I knew I would.
I think all Employers should do this on a yearly basis to all employees.
Heeders? Heeders? Neither I nor, I would imagine, Sjwahwah, are interested in disciples but there are a heck of a lot of people worldwide who share similar view points. Van Gogh, Einstein, and many other genius's have been considered to be heeders as there is a fine line between insanity and genius. There would be no doubt as to where your reality picture would put you Golllllllach. I wonder if you would have passed your test if you had been tested for ignorance and alcohol. LOL
Weel done owld man. I hope you enjoy your new job. All these new people to air your prejudices to.:lol: :lol:
Can you smoke on the top deck of an open topped bus? If so I really fancy a spliff whilst touring Edinburgh.
yeah for sure this is another thread, i've taken prozac after suffering from post natal depression, and yes it was a godsend, it enabled me to gain a perspective and did not leave me feeling like a zombie, the first three months are grim but it takes that long to build up the extra levels of seratonim in the brain, yes depression is a chemical imbalance, alcohol and drugs make it worse. I agree that the pills do not "cure" the problem but they do help, you have to take steps doing that yourself, depression is definately a self help illness and you need to reprogramme your brain away from the negative impulses and thoughts. You don't say if you have every been a user of mental health services or suffered from a mental health condition, i have and have found CPNs and the psychiastrists to be incredibly helpful and informative. Unless you have ever suffered from this then how can you comment on what is bad or good about it......
As for the main thread of legalising hash, im all for it, its quite clear that just because somethings illegal doesn't mean that people arn't going to do it....the problem is there, its been around for hundreds of years, if all drugs were legalised then it takes away from the rebel element, it would remove a large majority of dealers. I agree that education is the key and everyone should be made aware of the risks before they take anything. Drink is by far more dangerous than smoking pot, it is more physically and psycologically addictive. Abuse of a substance wether it is illegal or legal happens all the time and it is the nature of abuse that needs to be tackled. I dont feel that they should be legalised purely for quality control but the facts are that drugs are around, people will take them, what the government agencies have tried isn't working.
Incidentally it is also illegal to be drunk in a pub (law of 1872)....how many people can honestly hold up there hands and say they have never done that.....
There is speculation on this board I am a man. I am in fact a woman and I have a child. Going through pregnancy & taking care of a newborn is not easy. I can comment because I know it ain't easy..It's not supposed to be. but, I don't need validation that I have a mental illness and give it a name nor do I crave to be relieved of responsibility of doing something about it because I have a "so-called" biological or genetic disease. Prozac is a dangerous drug and suppresses the real problem. Tell me, what kind of scientific evidence did they give you that you had a chemical imbalance?
And yes, those in the mental health profession can be helpful through counselling; and even then they are encouraging you to be "normal" maybe that's the problem? Maybe not everybody should be the same and conform to what other people tell them they should conform to? Maybe that's what makes people depressed? - they'd rather do something else in life but, it is not socially acceptable to do so? But, drugs are the wrong answer!
And what is that teaching your children? You don't feel well or things ain't going so peachy, you need to take drugs? That question is important to answer in relation to this thread! How can parents and teachers and role models educate children not to take harmful drugs when they are taking Prozac and the like - they might as well be taking Ecstasy because that too raises your serotonin levels, that's it's exact purpose! Ecstasy is a Class A drug.
Do you think then that "hyper" (bored and unchallenged) children should be doled out Ritalin - kiddie coke?
I don't believe in "madness" in any form (and I've worked for 4 years in one of the roughest pubs in Leith!) or psychiatric "illnesses" that can't be scientifically proven! BIOPSYCHIATRY IS A PSEUDO-SCIENCE!
I knew there would be loads of people that would tell they were on Prozac and how awesome it is because there is something like 24 million people in this country that get it prescribed every year! They've even found it in the water supply in London last year! All of them are then able to carry on with their compulsively busy, productive, stressful, consumeristic little lives like robots... all for the sake of "normality" and conformity! Rubbish!
The truth about ALL drugs needs to come out and they all need to be legalised! Parents need to stop taking drugs themselves before they can educate and protect their children from lethal drugs.
BTW, It's also illegal to swear in a pub.
I must admit I had you pegged as a male. Now I am wiser and will reconsider my thinking about you. Not being sexist or chauvinistic(honest) it should make no difference.
I find your post very interesting and, although, at first, I thought it out of context, you bring it right into focus. I too do not really give much credence to the entire psychiatric profession and their ways. Shock treatment was, and probably is, an abomination. the use of which was quite barbaric. I have seen more people in a dream state all the time under the influence of prescibed tranks than I have ever seen under the influence of illegal substances. I have seen people come off all sorts of illegal drugs much more easily than thoese trying to come off barbituates or tranquilisers. You can paint over a decaying wall and it will look fine for a while but eventually it will collapse from the inside. To cover up the problem without finding root cause will not help to get rid of the problem. We had a lot less mental illness before psychiatrists and tranquilisers were invented. We should also remember that heroin was first put on the market as a cure for opium and morphine addiction and was circulated in China, for instance, by Catholic priests. A good example of how science, the Church and the state can be right up their fundamentals.
Alcohol kills thousands anually as does tobacco. Cannabis in a relatively pure form has never killed anyone,ever. Something is wrong somewhere but what can we do about it. Any ideas?????:confused:
I don't know whether it has ever killed anyone, but it can kill a person's mind. My whole family has been put to hell and back because of one person's addiction to that drug.
I don't know whether it has ever killed anyone, but it can kill a person's mind. My whole family has been put to hell and back because of one person's addiction to that drug.
I am sorry that you and your family have had the problems you have had. It is very unusual that cannabis alone can cause the problems to such an extent. I have never heard of addiction as strong as that from pure pot but the majority of stuff consumed by the average smoker these days can be mixed with substances that are very addictive and destructive. This the point behind this thread.
I am sorry that you and your family have had the problems you have had. It is very unusual that cannabis alone can cause the problems to such an extent. I have never heard of addiction as strong as that from pure pot but the majority of stuff consumed by the average smoker these days can be mixed with substances that are very addictive and destructive. This the point behind this thread.
Gleber2 owld and ( enlightened mate, your words no mine) its the like of you and ithers in this theme, that are trying to influence the rest of us that you and only you...sorry and her of course that are preaching to us unenlightened plebs that the use of Cannabis should be legal and would therefore become the solution to all the problems of the world, because we would be sitting around spaced out of our skulls in our kaftans with flowers in our hair sharing a spliff with our pals instead of having a pint in a now smoke free enviorment, and discussing everything from sport, higher ecomonics, politics, family life, and cookery. Well pal I choose the later. Count the followers of your pipe dream in this thread at the moment against the anti's and see what you come up with. I dare you to put a poll on CCWS in a constructive form of course, which I believe you would, and see what the results would be.
Gleber2 owld and ( enlightened mate, your words no mine) its the like of you and ithers in this theme, that are trying to influence the rest of us that you and only you...sorry and her of course that are preaching to us unenlightened plebs that the use of Cannabis should be legal and would therefore become the solution to all the problems of the world, because we would be sitting around spaced out of our skulls in our kaftans with flowers in our hair sharing a spliff with our pals instead of having a pint in a now smoke free enviorment, and discussing everything from sport, higher ecomonics, politics, family life, and cookery. Well pal I choose the later. Count the followers of your pipe dream in this thread at the moment against the anti's and see what you come up with. I dare you to put a poll on CCWS in a constructive form of course, which I believe you would, and see what the results would be.
You misconstue my intentions and I really don't care about your personal druthers and it would take more than legalisation of anything to put right the mess that this world is in. As a matter of interest,as I would imagine that you have already made a count, what is the ratio. You go your way and I'll go mine and never the twain will meet. Been more than a few years since anyone wore a kaftan. Come into the 21st century old fellow and set aside your illinformed prejudices. Anyway, what does it matter what I think, I'm just a common junkie and a heeder in your eyes.
tiggertoo
08-Apr-06, 00:41
alcahol is a more dangerous drug that is legal and the government make a mint out of , more youngsters binge drink at weekends nowadays since all of this alcapops came onthe market, it ruins lives,marriage breakups, it causes deaths more violance than cannibis, chronic alcaholics and the government know this but they still dont mind taking their slice, their the big drug dealers
alcahol is a more dangerous drug that is legal and the government make a mint out of , more youngsters binge drink at weekends nowadays since all of this alcapops came onthe market, it ruins lives,marriage breakups, it causes deaths more violance than cannibis, chronic alcaholics and the government know this but they still dont mind taking their slice, their the big drug dealers
Got in one.
And................. TWO!
There is speculation on this board I am a man. I am in fact a woman and I have a child. Going through pregnancy & taking care of a newborn is not easy. I can comment because I know it ain't easy..It's not supposed to be. but, I don't need validation that I have a mental illness and give it a name nor do I crave to be relieved of responsibility of doing something about it because I have a "so-called" biological or genetic disease. Prozac is a dangerous drug and suppresses the real problem. Tell me, what kind of scientific evidence did they give you that you had a chemical imbalance?
And yes, those in the mental health profession can be helpful through counselling; and even then they are encouraging you to be "normal" maybe that's the problem? Maybe not everybody should be the same and conform to what other people tell them they should conform to? Maybe that's what makes people depressed? - they'd rather do something else in life but, it is not socially acceptable to do so? But, drugs are the wrong answer!
And what is that teaching your children? You don't feel well or things ain't going so peachy, you need to take drugs? That question is important to answer in relation to this thread! How can parents and teachers and role models educate children not to take harmful drugs when they are taking Prozac and the like - they might as well be taking Ecstasy because that too raises your serotonin levels, that's it's exact purpose! Ecstasy is a Class A drug.
Do you think then that "hyper" (bored and unchallenged) children should be doled out Ritalin - kiddie coke?
I don't believe in "madness" in any form (and I've worked for 4 years in one of the roughest pubs in Leith!) or psychiatric "illnesses" that can't be scientifically proven! BIOPSYCHIATRY IS A PSEUDO-SCIENCE!
I knew there would be loads of people that would tell they were on Prozac and how awesome it is because there is something like 24 million people in this country that get it prescribed every year! They've even found it in the water supply in London last year! All of them are then able to carry on with their compulsively busy, productive, stressful, consumeristic little lives like robots... all for the sake of "normality" and conformity! Rubbish!
The truth about ALL drugs needs to come out and they all need to be legalised! Parents need to stop taking drugs themselves before they can educate and protect their children from lethal drugs.
BTW, It's also illegal to swear in a pub.
LOL....this indeed very patronizing....you can comment because you have had a baby? Is this the same as PND? mmmm i think not....or you wouldn't admit it coz you don't believe it exists....incidently i had been a mother for 8 years previously im well aware of the pros and cons of wee babies..PND isn't because you can't cope, you are incredibly misinformed....Prozac and Es are the same....erm no they are not..have you tried either? do you speak from experience? I dabbled when i was a teenager going my rebellious phase and they are definately not the same...just because they both raise serotonim doesn't make them the same.....
If my children come to me when things aren't going well am i going to tell them "go take a pill" ..no i am not, i would hope to support them through whatever problem they have, but i will also raise them to be well informed about subjects such as drugs/sex/environment/people around them/mental illness, I am not a person that takes a pill at the drop of a hat for a headache. I would not sit and boast to my children that i took drugs but if they ask i am not going to lie to them...and will tell them the risks.
Wether drugs are legal or illegal isn't going to make a hoot of a difference to kids, in fact the illegal part may add to the buzz. I think it would be safer if they were legalised.
Working in a bar in leith, does not make you qualified to know the differences in mental health problems? (i lived in leith for 12 years) are you medically trained? are you a scientist? what experience do you have to back up your claims that it doens't exist? there is scientific proof that prozac helps depression, otherwise it wouldn't be prescribed, it wouldn't have gained license. For medication the truth about side affects are printed on the wee leaflet you get in the box, if most people read them they probably would never take another pill agian in their life.....the pill, taken by thousands of women, causes blood clots, brain hemorages and a list of other horrible side affects.....the company has to list every recorded side affect during trials or that has come to light during its use.....not everyone will react to medication the same way......the same goes for the illegal drugs where we don't get that wee slip of paper........you have to rely on other peoples experiences, good and bad, as a basis to make a choice. The use of drugs shouldn;t be glamourised but it shouldn't be demonised either...
I probably experimented to conform with my friends at the time, but i certainly didn't take prozac to conform to the governments ideal as you suggest - but to be able to function in everday life...infact to regain my life....if i hadn't taken prozac then i would have lost my relationship, my family and what little i had left - there were times when i really thought there was no point in being on this planet......prozac gave me the ability to gain perspective and focus again on what was good in my life....what is terrible about that?
LOL....this indeed very patronizing....you can comment because you have had a baby? Is this the same as PND? mmmm i think not....or you wouldn't admit it coz you don't believe it exists....incidently i had been a mother for 8 years previously im well aware of the pros and cons of wee babies..PND isn't because you can't cope, you are incredibly misinformed....Prozac and Es are the same....erm no they are not..have you tried either? do you speak from experience? I dabbled when i was a teenager going my rebellious phase and they are definately not the same...just because they both raise serotonim doesn't make them the same.....
If my children come to me when things aren't going well am i going to tell them "go take a pill" ..no i am not, i would hope to support them through whatever problem they have, but i will also raise them to be well informed about subjects such as drugs/sex/environment/people around them/mental illness, I am not a person that takes a pill at the drop of a hat for a headache. I would not sit and boast to my children that i took drugs but if they ask i am not going to lie to them...and will tell them the risks.
Wether drugs are legal or illegal isn't going to make a hoot of a difference to kids, in fact the illegal part may add to the buzz. I think it would be safer if they were legalised.
Working in a bar in leith, does not make you qualified to know the differences in mental health problems? (i lived in leith for 12 years) are you medically trained? are you a scientist? what experience do you have to back up your claims that it doens't exist? there is scientific proof that prozac helps depression, otherwise it wouldn't be prescribed, it wouldn't have gained license. For medication the truth about side affects are printed on the wee leaflet you get in the box, if most people read them they probably would never take another pill agian in their life.....the pill, taken by thousands of women, causes blood clots, brain hemorages and a list of other horrible side affects.....the company has to list every recorded side affect during trials or that has come to light during its use.....not everyone will react to medication the same way......the same goes for the illegal drugs where we don't get that wee slip of paper........you have to rely on other peoples experiences, good and bad, as a basis to make a choice. The use of drugs shouldn;t be glamourised but it shouldn't be demonised either...
I probably experimented to conform with my friends at the time, but i certainly didn't take prozac to conform to the governments ideal as you suggest - but to be able to function in everday life...infact to regain my life....if i hadn't taken prozac then i would have lost my relationship, my family and what little i had left - there were times when i really thought there was no point in being on this planet......prozac gave me the ability to gain perspective and focus again on what was good in my life....what is terrible about that?
Weefee, I am with you on this one, I have lived in Leith now for approx 45 years, I drink, but Im not an alcoholic, I used to smoke tobacco,been 4 years now off the weed. I have been happily married to the same Leith lassie for 45 years, I brought up two sons, who are married and holding down good jobs, I have drunk in every pub in Leith so sjwahwah you may have served me, you never know. I also know many mothers who have blessed Prozac when suffering PND and never became addicted. On the other hand I also know at least two of my sons pals at school, who started on Cannabis and ended up being found in a stairwell with a needle sticking out of their arm. Irvine Welsh portrayed Leith and its Druggies very well in Trainspotting
Weefee, I am with you on this one, I have lived in Leith now for approx 45 years, I drink, but Im not an alcoholic, I used to smoke tobacco,been 4 years now off the weed. I have been happily married to the same Leith lassie for 45 years, I brought up two sons, who are married and holding down good jobs, I have drunk in every pub in Leith so sjwahwah you may have served me, you never know. I also know many mothers who have blessed Prozac when suffering PND and never became addicted. On the other hand I also know at least two of my sons pals at school, who started on Cannabis and ended up being found in a stairwell with a needle sticking out of their arm. Irvine Welsh portrayed Leith and its Druggies very well in Trainspotting
lol, yeah he was one of them!!! he could write from experience....and there were plenty of junkies, not so much now ....but despite them leith was one of my favourate places to live...and the waterfront is really lovely now (tho the balfour bar was my local), though the kirkgate was always good for junkie spotting and it was terrible in the early 90s when they were all dying off from aids, the place was full of walking skeletons...it certainly opened my eyes, i was 17 when i moved there a niave country girl fae fife. Having never taken herion (well except pethadine during childbirth - isn't this a derivitive? or is it opium?) i can't comment on why people feel the need to take it especially considering the lifestyle that comes with it....Irvine Welsh definately got it spot on.....however when the film came out in 1995/6 there was an immediate dry up of dope and herion was pumped back onto the street, in leith anyway......coincidence? i dont think so....
people with addictions are no better or worse than anyone else, they have a problem, i've come accross "junkies" who have been great people, and i've come across non drug users who have been complete idiots and vice versa...they are still people, who have problems, in fact most ex users i know seem to go into areas where they can help other people, maybe i've just been lucky with those i know..
my cousin also has drug induced schizofrenia, he comes from a very well off family. he tripped himself into oblivion and will have to live with the consequences for the rest of his life, not just him but his family too, this is one of the risks that i think people should be aware of, wether or not it is scientifically provan, there does appear to be strong links with substance ABUSE and mental illness.....
Are the druggies that infest our society no a result of the inept work of the politicians voted in by us?
Me, I drink but am not an alcoholic. I also partake in a bit of cannabis (very rarely) but I am not a druggy (or at least I don’t consider my self one).
What is being advocated (or put up for discussion) is the supply of clean cannabis, which people can use, if you accept that cannabis is freely available on the streets after years of work to try and prevent it – I can’t see any alternative but to agree that something must be done to clean up the supply. Anything else is negligence.
LOL....this indeed very patronizing....you can comment because you have had a baby? Is this the same as PND? mmmm i think not....or you wouldn't admit it coz you don't believe it exists....incidently i had been a mother for 8 years previously im well aware of the pros and cons of wee babies..PND isn't because you can't cope, you are incredibly misinformed....Prozac and Es are the same....erm no they are not..have you tried either? do you speak from experience? I dabbled when i was a teenager going my rebellious phase and they are definately not the same...just because they both raise serotonim doesn't make them the same.....
If my children come to me when things aren't going well am i going to tell them "go take a pill" ..no i am not, i would hope to support them through whatever problem they have, but i will also raise them to be well informed about subjects such as drugs/sex/environment/people around them/mental illness, I am not a person that takes a pill at the drop of a hat for a headache. I would not sit and boast to my children that i took drugs but if they ask i am not going to lie to them...and will tell them the risks.
Wether drugs are legal or illegal isn't going to make a hoot of a difference to kids, in fact the illegal part may add to the buzz. I think it would be safer if they were legalised.
Working in a bar in leith, does not make you qualified to know the differences in mental health problems? (i lived in leith for 12 years) are you medically trained? are you a scientist? what experience do you have to back up your claims that it doens't exist? there is scientific proof that prozac helps depression, otherwise it wouldn't be prescribed, it wouldn't have gained license. For medication the truth about side affects are printed on the wee leaflet you get in the box, if most people read them they probably would never take another pill agian in their life.....the pill, taken by thousands of women, causes blood clots, brain hemorages and a list of other horrible side affects.....the company has to list every recorded side affect during trials or that has come to light during its use.....not everyone will react to medication the same way......the same goes for the illegal drugs where we don't get that wee slip of paper........you have to rely on other peoples experiences, good and bad, as a basis to make a choice. The use of drugs shouldn;t be glamourised but it shouldn't be demonised either...
I probably experimented to conform with my friends at the time, but i certainly didn't take prozac to conform to the governments ideal as you suggest - but to be able to function in everday life...infact to regain my life....if i hadn't taken prozac then i would have lost my relationship, my family and what little i had left - there were times when i really thought there was no point in being on this planet......prozac gave me the ability to gain perspective and focus again on what was good in my life....what is terrible about that?
well... you and the other 24 million. Drugs aren't an answer to anything.... especially for emotional distress which is classed as a biological or/and genetic defect that there is no scientific evidence of AND on that basis they give people drugs!? if it isn't because your having a hard time coping then what is it? And how do you assume you had a harder time than anyone else including me? I would think it is probably more likely that people suffering from PND have a range of issues (environmental, diet, & unrealeased emotional distress) contributing to their problems, which giving you a happy pill ain't gonna fix long term.
hmm.. you don't actually need to take Prozac or Eccys to know that they both muck with the serotonin levels. In fact, taken together can be lethal. Same for St. Johns Wort and a combo of either or.
Aspartame "gained a license" as you call it but, it kills people and you should try looking up how many deaths are cause by prescription medications every year in this country. That's right a leaflet in the Prozac box, a leaflet as long as your arm full of SIDE EFFECTS. Which I might add doesn't help anybody recovering from traumatic experiences such as birth or death of a loved one. And how about the side effects you can't "see"? My point is that I'm sure they don't go out of their way to put people who are suffering from distress on a diet change or supplements... they just write ya a script and yer on yer way. Problem solved. Shouldn't be surprising that the Prescription Drug Industry is the 2nd or 3rd largest industry in the world of which our doctors work for.
I never said YOU boasted to your kids about taking pills. Taking Prozac and the like is "socially acceptable" and if parents pop pills.. kiddies think it's alright too in fact why shouldn't it be? That would be a bit hypocritical now.
How about show me scientific proof mental illness does exist? I mean so many people apparently have a mental illness and 24 million Brits depressed enough to give drugs to (almost half the country) so many scripts for Prozac that it's actually in the water supply!.. where's the proof? So, in essence your telling me that 24 million Brits are all of a sudden genetically or/and biologically defective and need drugs to control it. What kind of hard scientific evidence did they give you?
Are the druggies that infest our society no a result of the inept work of the politicians voted in by us?
Me, I drink but am not an alcoholic. I also partake in a bit of cannabis (very rarely) but I am not a druggy (or at least I don’t consider my self one).
What is being advocated (or put up for discussion) is the supply of clean cannabis, which people can use, if you accept that cannabis is freely available on the streets after years of work to try and prevent it – I can’t see any alternative but to agree that something must be done to clean up the supply. Anything else is negligence.
That would be the most intelligent move they could make on this issue by far.
sassylass
08-Apr-06, 17:41
well said weefee and scotsboy
Are the druggies that infest our society no a result of the inept work of the politicians voted in by us?
Me, I drink but am not an alcoholic. I also partake in a bit of cannabis (very rarely) but I am not a druggy (or at least I don’t consider my self one).
What is being advocated (or put up for discussion) is the supply of clean cannabis, which people can use, if you accept that cannabis is freely available on the streets after years of work to try and prevent it – I can’t see any alternative but to agree that something must be done to clean up the supply. Anything else is negligence.
I've read the previous posts but will reply to yours first. Your attitude towards this thread and the problem highlighted by it, is sane, reasoned and staight. The fact that we basically agree is by the way.
To make an 'us against them' situation of the problem is stupid, childish, completely negative and totally unnescessary. I have heard arguements like Golach's time and time again spouting the same tired old points and totally missing the main point. His limited experience of cannabis and other drugs is not enough to justify such an arrogant assertion that we common junkies, and by your own admission that would include you, are all heeders.
Cannabis is not a gateway drug. This has been accepted by the knowledgable for some time now. It is the fact that it is illegal that makes it a gateway drug. When young people have been told things like"If you smoke one joint you are signing your death warrant"(From a teacher to one of my children) and then, by defying their parents and teachers, and trying cannabis for themselves, the majority find that what they have been told about cannabis is not truth This makes them doubt the wisdom of their education which is,at best, not quite factual( I am being euphemistic here) and try the class A drugs for themselves, and, as the trade is in the hands of criminals who make much more money from Class A's than cannabis, the supply is there and is pushed at them until they are hooked. This not my opinion, this is fact!!!. The legalisation of cannabis would remove the drug from the hands of the criminals and enable the goverment to ensure that our young people are not breathing smoke from tupentine,Largactyl and all the other pollutants into their lungs. Not to address the problem asap is not only negligent,it is criminally negligent.
The opinions of Sjwahwah on the subject of prozac and PND are quite relevant and true as is the opinion of weefee. To cover up the source of a problem by using a prescribed drug does not remove the problem, only covers it up and makes it bearable. If that is what you need to do to make life bearable then take them, it is your choice, but I would rather take cyanide then any trank. The point that I think Sjwahwah makes is that children tend to emulate their parents, not do what they say but do what they do. If mummy has to rely on mother's little helper, then the kids are likely to have a similar attitude to drugs and see no wrong it. Cannabis brings the latent problems to the surface and in fact can be used to cure mental problems. It is also believed to actually enhance mental ability when used properly which is why so many artists and musicians have been using it for hundreds of years.
From the experience and education a life as musician,hippy, father and everything else I have been has given me, I would rather see them use cannabis than tobacco or alcohol, if I had to hand out advice to any child.
Of course, as in the case of PND, the stress and uncertainty of our modern ways would mean that most people turn to something to make their lives more bearable It is allright to use alcohol or tranks and beta blockers to make life bearable but those that choose cannabis are denied to use their drug of choice. All you selfrighteous people like Golach are just as much common junkies as anyone else. Tobacco,alcohol, tea, coffee, prozac,or anything else that it is cool to ingest because it is legal, are just as much drugs as cannabis and all the others. Try withdrawing from your espresso coffee and your daily intake of alcohol for a week and feel the withdrawal.
The supply of cannabis is frequently removed from the streets so that the dealers can offer class A's to the punter as a substitute and when he is hooked and the pyramid begins to grow, the weed is reintroduced. The supply is in the hands of master criminals in other counties and they can, by virtue of our archaic laws, manipulate the drug market to the detriment of the young people who have already made their choice of what lifesupporting substance to consume. Our laws need to change if this insane situation is going to be redressed. The status quo so voluably defended by people like Golach has failed miserably in its efforts to control or stop the drug business,and I will say it again, if all you blinkered protagonists cannot come up with more constuctive suggestions about what can be done to put right the problems, start your own thread extolling the ass that is our legal system. I will be pleased to contribute fact instead of cant and government propoganda.
All you selfrighteous people like Golach are just as much common junkies as anyone else. Tobacco,alcohol, tea, coffee, prozac,or anything else that it is cool to ingest because it is legal, are just as much drugs as cannabis and all the others. Try withdrawing from your espresso coffee and your daily intake of alcohol for a week and feel the withdrawal.
Our laws need to change if this insane situation is going to be redressed. The status quo so voluably defended by people like Golach has failed miserably in its efforts to control or stop the drug business,and I will say it again, if all you blinkered protagonists cannot come up with more constuctive suggestions about what can be done to put right the problems, start your own thread extolling the ass that is our legal system. I will be pleased to contribute fact instead of cant and government propoganda.
I do not consider myself selfrighteous in any way Gleber2, I have never preached unlike yourself about the righteousness of the use and legalisation of Cannabis. I am only puting forward my own personal view, which as it happens is the opposite of yours, only because I wish to be a law abiding citizen, Yes I may change my mind about Cannabis if it ever bacame legal, but somehow I dont think so, Yes Gleber2 I have tried Cannabis ONCE a long long time ago in a far of land, it did not a thing for me so I decided as late teenager that Drugs were not for me. And that does not make me a hypocryt
either.
I do not consider myself selfrighteous in any way Gleber2, I have never preached unlike yourself about the righteousness of the use and legalisation of Cannabis. I am only puting forward my own personal view, which as it happens is the opposite of yours, only because I wish to be a law abiding citizen, Yes I may change my mind about Cannabis if it ever bacame legal, but somehow I dont think so, Yes Gleber2 I have tried Cannabis ONCE a long long time ago in a far of land, it did not a thing for me so I decided as late teenager that Drugs were not for me. And that does not make me a hypocryt
either.
If that didn't make you hypocrit, what did?:grin:
If that didn't make you hypocrit, what did?:grin:
You used to like a drink.....now you condem it.....is that the pot calling the kettle black
You used to like a drink.....now you condem it.....is that the pot calling the kettle black
No,Gollach, that's a man learning the truth and acting upon it, to the improvement of his mind and body.It is not only I who condemn drink but virtually every scientific and medical mind on the planet.The only thing in its favour is the fact that it is legal and they don't jail people for destroying themselves with it.
we can't just base the argument of legalising drugs on the basis of cleaning up the substances...this thread started with wanting cleaner cannabis, well what about e's, herion,crack etc..... people will buy illegal drugs no matter what state they are in and to think that the whole underground drug supply will dry up is a dream, if you are an addict you will do anything for a hit. I've never tried herion, would never want to but there are lots of people in the country who are addicted and as its illegal will put off going for help.
how many of the casual or regular drug users on this board admit to their doctor what drugs they take and how often? people don't have a problem in stating how much they drink or how many fags they smoke. Its great for someone to go to a smoking clinic, but admitting you have a illegal addiction would surely be all the more harder.
i think it was scotsboy (apologies if im wrong) who wants cleaner dope and is wanting to smoke a spliff on an open top bus, but says the government is negligent to allow the chemicals going into dope.....erm...are you not being negligent to yourself....why not stop smoking your occassional spliff until it has been sorted out, then you can stop being occassionally wasted and start campaigning for the legalisation of drugs? Are you not being negligent to yourself? Is there not some sort of personal responsibility to be taken with drug use, legal or illegal? It is a personal choice to take drugs - no one elses. Even with legal prescribed drugs, it is only advice the doctor gives you, you don't have to follow his advice, when you pick up the prescription the pharmacist then gives you more advice, then you go home and read the wee info sheet about the pros and cons and you make the choice to take the tablet.
It is the addiction of the harder drugs like herion and crack that need to be tackled mostly as they have the most impact on society (i guess alcohol addiction could fall into this too) - crime and violent attacks are often drug related. Taking away the taboo and brining the problem out into the light and allowing people to talk about their drug use can only be a good thing....fags and alcohol are both legal, contain horrible chemicals, and we can still buy them cheaper from some guy in the pub.....
i dont think that if they are legalised there will be a massive upsurge in people taking drugs, they either will or won't as it is now, we have the hedonistic brigade and the health gurus, some are a mixture of the two.
i think with the dangers of other legal things then drugs are not the all encumbant evil that the media portrays them to be.......but generally a social problem that communities should work together to prevent.
we can't just base the argument of legalising drugs on the basis of cleaning up the substances...this thread started with wanting cleaner cannabis, well what about e's, herion,crack etc..... people will buy illegal drugs no matter what state they are in and to think that the whole underground drug supply will dry up is a dream, if you are an addict you will do anything for a hit. I've never tried herion, would never want to but there are lots of people in the country who are addicted and as its illegal will put off going for help.
how many of the casual or regular drug users on this board admit to their doctor what drugs they take and how often? people don't have a problem in stating how much they drink or how many fags they smoke. Its great for someone to go to a smoking clinic, but admitting you have a illegal addiction would surely be all the more harder.
i think it was scotsboy (apologies if im wrong) who wants cleaner dope and is wanting to smoke a spliff on an open top bus, but says the government is negligent to allow the chemicals going into dope.....erm...are you not being negligent to yourself....why not stop smoking your occassional spliff until it has been sorted out, then you can stop being occassionally wasted and start campaigning for the legalisation of drugs? Are you not being negligent to yourself? Is there not some sort of personal responsibility to be taken with drug use, legal or illegal? It is a personal choice to take drugs - no one elses. Even with legal prescribed drugs, it is only advice the doctor gives you, you don't have to follow his advice, when you pick up the prescription the pharmacist then gives you more advice, then you go home and read the wee info sheet about the pros and cons and you make the choice to take the tablet.
It is the addiction of the harder drugs like herion and crack that need to be tackled mostly as they have the most impact on society (i guess alcohol addiction could fall into this too) - crime and violent attacks are often drug related. Taking away the taboo and brining the problem out into the light and allowing people to talk about their drug use can only be a good thing....fags and alcohol are both legal, contain horrible chemicals, and we can still buy them cheaper from some guy in the pub.....
i dont think that if they are legalised there will be a massive upsurge in people taking drugs, they either will or won't as it is now, we have the hedonistic brigade and the health gurus, some are a mixture of the two.
i think with the dangers of other legal things then drugs are not the all encumbant evil that the media portrays them to be.......but generally a social problem that communities should work together to prevent.
If prevention is impossible, as it appears to be, then surely it is incumbent upon the powers that be to face the problem in another way? I started this thread by pointing out that more and more young people were, in ignorance, consuming poisons that should not be there. We cannot stop the trend, we cannot treat the symptoms of the social disease that makes most people want some sort of stimulant whether it be tea, rum or pot and we allow the situation to continue with no regard for the consequences.
Legalisation might be the answer but this is not the main point of this thread. I am concerned that thousands of young people are smoking that which can only be described as a cocktail of poisons in the belief that they are smoking cannabis and the problems created by this man-made mixture is then attributed to cannabis and used as an excuse to oppose the legalisation.
We do not have cannabis as a medicine " because we don't know the side effects and we must make more tests" but the effects and side effects have been known for thousands of years. We prescribe heroin and morphine when the side effect is serious addiction and we give people repeat prescriptions of barbituates which turns them into zombies. Cannabis is the only releif that some ill people can get and they are persecuted for the use of it.
Legalise everything and educate and control. Who knows, it might work. What we have now certainly does not..
I know a guy who lives here in Edinburgh.. his name is Neil Montegomery and he is the Consultant Anthropologist to the UK Medicinal Cannabis Research Project whom I met through a research project of my own. He has been an expert witness in the House of Lords relating to cases of medicinal use of cannabis and at one time he was running a testing program as part of a Phd. research project. Anyone could send him a bit of hash and he would test it for exactly what was in it and report the results to an email address. Pretty disgusting results most times I'm sure. I don't know if he still does it as it was maybe 3-5 years ago but, I suppose you could try and google him if anyone is interested... He was doing it through Edinburgh University.
I've looked.. I don't think he is doing the testing anymore.. it was a research project in conjuction with a Pharmaceutical company.
http://www.ccguide.org.uk/badsoap.php
that has something about it.
I have been following this thread carefully and found it very intresting. I do know the identity of Gleber2.
I found it unusual how 'SJWAHWAH' backwards spells 'HAW HAW JS'. I put it to you, fine people of this thread that SJWAHWAH and GLEBER2 is one and the same person.
To all,
The people who had an opposite and valid arguement.
Regards
Jayare
I have been following this thread carefully and found it very intresting. I do know the identity of Gleber2.
I found it unusual how 'SJWAHWAH' backwards spells 'HAW HAW JS'. I put it to you, fine people of this thread that SJWAHWAH and GLEBER2 is one and the same person.
To all,
The people who had an opposite and valid arguement.
Regards
Jayare
Gleber2 has never hidden his identity and your conclusion completely erroneous. Since this thread started I have arranged to do some playing with her husband when she moves to Wick. Her first name starts with S., believe it or not. So, whoever you are, you are full of do do??? If you want to accuse me of something, come clean with your identity or are a coward as much as you are a fool.
BTW, None of the opposing views to my own came near a valid reason for opposing the point of this thread as it was put in the first place.
HAW HAW JS ? LMAO :lol: Who are you? Wannabe Sherlock Holmes? I've seen reachers and then I've seen reachers! Do you find it that hard to believe that two or maybe even three people have the same point of view on a subject? So, now I should assume all those that agree with you are the same person then?
Still laughing.... [lol]
I have been following this thread carefully and found it very intresting. I do know the identity of Gleber2.
I found it unusual how 'SJWAHWAH' backwards spells 'HAW HAW JS'. I put it to you, fine people of this thread that SJWAHWAH and GLEBER2 is one and the same person.
To all,
The people who had an opposite and valid arguement.
Regards
Jayare
Your first post I notice, after three years. If this is the sort of subject that inspires you to post and you have a particular antipathy towards myself then I suggest you keep your twisted mouth shut for another three years.[evil] I have been called gay, hetro- sex mad, bisexual and many other things in my strange and wonderful life to date but this is the first time I have been accused of being a woman. Only one of the three sexual tags could ever be considered true and I will leave up to the reader to draw their own conclusions as to which one it may be.LOL
star glazer
10-Apr-06, 14:41
I think you need to take a close look at yourself Gleeber.:p
I think you need to take a close look at yourself Gleeber.:p
For a start, I am not and never have been, Gleeber. I am Gleber2. Introspection has been one of my major occupations for many many years. For one who, for whatever reasons, has been maligned as much as I have, it is essential to look at oneself to stay sane.
So I would argue your point and ask, in all humility, why you made it. If, to speak my mind and to answer critcisms, is considered wrong by you, then you are missing the point of these forums. If you were only joking, then accept my apologies for taking you seriously.
star glazer
10-Apr-06, 14:52
For what its worth
I think you need to take a close look at yourself Gleeber.:p
I forgot to ask the real question. Why?
As for your next post "For what it's worth"". Could you please clarify. Your posts are somewhat unclear.
sassylass
10-Apr-06, 17:17
This thread is turning into shades of Tao and Seqenenre [lol]
This thread is turning into shades of Tao and Seqenenre [lol]
The reference to Seqenenre I find hard to fit into this context although I am familiar with the name. The Tao??? Pray tell me where you are coming from on this one. I find myself intrigued and confused.[lol]
I have been following this thread carefully and found it very intresting. I do know the identity of Gleber2.
I found it unusual how 'SJWAHWAH' backwards spells 'HAW HAW JS'. I put it to you, fine people of this thread that SJWAHWAH and GLEBER2 is one and the same person.
To all,
The people who had an opposite and valid arguement.
Regards
Jayare
I have only recently joined .org & i to have been following this thread since the start, so i can see where you are coming from as it seem's such a coincedence that sjhawhaw is just about singing from the same hymn sheet as gleber2 on almost all points.
More so than any other's view's
I have only recently joined .org & i to have been following this thread since the start, so i can see where you are coming from as it seem's such a coincedence that sjhawhaw is just about singing from the same hymn sheet as gleber2 on almost all points.
More so than any other's view's
Has it ocurred to you that Sjwahwah and I share the same opinions and can atriculate our ideas in a similar vein. This means that, from similar information and a knowledge of the subject, we believe that the drug problem needs to be addressed in a way that will work as opposed to WHAT WE HAVE NOW WHICH DOESN'T WORK. A number of people, in fact the majority who have posted in this thread, tend to agree with the substance of this thread. We are all reading from the same sheet because that's where you will find facts instead of belief.
I don't like repeating myself but I have to say that the belief that I and Sjwahwah are one and the same is absolute nonsense. I can't for the life of me work out how this ridiculous notion came about. If someone believes a similar point to myself they are immediately suspect. How patently childish and daft. In fact both Sjwahwah and myself are absolutely disgusted by these purile assertions. I live in Dunnet Head and she lives in Edinburgh. Statement of fact. You might as well say that I'm DW because we both have a warped sense of humour, or that I'm Gleeber because we come from the same part of town. Grow up will you!!!![evil]
[quote=Gleber2]I don't like repeating myself
most of this post is about you repeating yourself lol;)
[quote=Gleber2]I don't like repeating myself
most of this post is about you repeating yourself lol;)
Dear dear me. How pathetic.[lol]
Is the intellect of my new protagonists so weak that the only way to answer me is to attack me on a personal and petty level? And a patently absurd level at that.
[quote=sam]
Dear dear me. How pathetic.[lol]
HAW HAW GLEBER2 LMAO LOL:lol: [lol] :p
Has it ocurred to you that Sjwahwah and I share the same opinions and can atriculate our ideas in a similar vein. This means that, from similar information and a knowledge of the subject, we believe that the drug problem needs to be addressed in a way that will work as opposed to WHAT WE HAVE NOW WHICH DOESN'T WORK. A number of people, in fact the majority who have posted in this thread, tend to agree with the substance of this thread. We are all reading from the same sheet because that's where you will find facts instead of belief.
I don't like repeating myself but I have to say that the belief that I and Sjwahwah are one and the same is absolute nonsense. I can't for the life of me work out how this ridiculous notion came about. If someone believes a similar point to myself they are immediately suspect. How patently childish and daft. In fact both Sjwahwah and myself are absolutely disgusted by these purile assertions. I live in Dunnet Head and she lives in Edinburgh. Statement of fact. You might as well say that I'm DW because we both have a warped sense of humour, or that I'm Gleeber because we come from the same part of town. Grow up will you!!!![evil]
I am certainly no you or gleeber either. Oh the thought of it. Oh the shame it would bring on my sainted head:cry:
I am certainly no you or gleeber either. Oh the thought of it. Oh the shame it would bring on my sainted head:cry:
Some assertions are too removed from reality to evn consider.
It's very simple.... ask the MODERATORS. We will most definately have different IP numbers... and the only person else that posts from my computer is my husband... who I won't disclose but I can quarantee it isn't gleber2!
Gleber2 points out jayure or whoever it is all of a sudden posts one message in 3 years... so, I would assume jayure is somebody else that does not like my and gleber2's nonconforming opinions!
go on...... ask the moderator....but, yer only wasting their time.... and I don't think the moderators should have to be sorting yas out like small children as there are other things they'd rather be doing.
Maybe it would be better if we were just droolin' sycophants then? "Oh yes, if you think that's true.... I believe it too!" or "Oh, I better go along with that cause everyone will think I'm a weirdo and cast me out if I don't!" Get a life people and let's try to treat everyones view as their individualistic opinion cause wouldn't it be boring if we all thought the same thing!?!?!?!?! What would be the point of forums then?
It's very simple.... ask the MODERATORS. We will most definately have different IP numbers... and the only person else that posts from my computer is my husband... who I won't disclose but I can quarantee it isn't gleber2!
Gleber2 points out jayure or whoever it is all of a sudden posts one message in 3 years... so, I would assume jayure is somebody else that does not like my and gleber2's nonconforming opinions!
go on...... ask the moderator....but, yer only wasting their time.... and I don't think the moderators should have to be sorting yas out like small children as there are other things they'd rather be doing.
Maybe it would be better if we were just droolin' sycophants then? "Oh yes, if you think that's true.... I believe it too!" or "Oh, I better go along with that cause everyone will think I'm a weirdo and cast me out if I don't!" Get a life people and let's try to treat everyones view as their individualistic opinion cause wouldn't it be boring if we all thought the same thing!?!?!?!?! What would be the point of forums then?
Just wondered sjwahwah, why is it that your spelling and grammer has suddenly got to pot lol:confused:
Just wondered sjwahwah, why is it that your spelling and grammer has suddenly got to pot lol:confused:
Like that one sam.......gone to pot!!!!!!!![lol]
perhaps sam is the biggest sycophant of them all? last seven posts only agreeing with someone else?
perhaps sam is the biggest sycophant of them all? last seven posts only agreeing with someone else?
claptrap cos a dont agree wi you and how do you work out my last post's are agreeing wi someone else when i had asked you a question:confused:
hey sycophantic sam!
yes,yes,yes,yes.... lol lmao hahahahahaha :-) You're so funny! oh yea... I agree with you. Do you love me now? Oh your so bang on... LOL aren't I great? I'm a real follower in this herd and will flatter everwhere I flap just to be loved by the rest!
vomit!
hey sycophantic sam!
yes,yes,yes,yes.... lol lmao hahahahahaha :-) You're so funny! oh yea... I agree with you. Do you love me now? Oh your so bang on... LOL aren't I great? I'm a real follower in this herd and will flatter everwhere I flap just to be loved by the rest!
vomit!
ROFLMOA A reckon you have well lost the plot lol
havent laughed so much in ages lol cheers :lol: [lol] :p
rich62_uk
10-Apr-06, 21:30
Can you not ignore them and get on with the thread ? It was far more interesting.
I would like to hear more about how cannabis can help people with a mental illness as Gleber2 mentioned in an earlier post, if one of the side effects is paranoia........Trish. :o)
(or is it affects, having one of my many dipsy moments)
ROFLMOA A reckon you have well lost the plot lol
havent laughed so much in ages lol cheers :lol: [lol] :p
I might have "lost the plot" as you put it... but, at least I aint a sycophantic sheep!
clap my trap? don't talk if you cannae walk!
Can you not ignore them and get on with the thread ? It was far more interesting.
I would like to hear more about how cannabis can help people with a mental illness as Gleber2 mentioned in an earlier post, if one of the side effects is paranoia........Trish. :o)
(or is it affects, having one of my many dipsy moments)
good idea. I would say the negative effects of cannabis are generally a matter of dosage and potency. Because it is not regulated and people don't really know what they're gettin... it is very difficult to avoid the negative effects from taking too much... same with any substance.
In Cambodia, they use grass in food dishes like we use basil. They get a steady stream of the pure plant... pretty much same potency everytime... and CLEAN (the key word here) Basil, thyme and the rest of the legal herbs we got in our kitchen all affect you.... but..... ya know what I'm saying?
It's a muscle relaxant... this would help calm a person down if they are anxious or tense or stressed. It's psycho active properties help people look at the world differently and incite some of our "senses" to function that are senses outside the 5 sense prison most of us live in now. I believe that is one reason why it is illegal. Again, I don't believe in mental illness as a biological or genetic defect.. but, there is no denying people become distressed for a variety of reasons and to a variety of degrees. The highest degree a result from years and years of suppression of the distress usually by drugs.
I think alot of basic distress is due to this evident repression of exploration of ALL our available senses so, it could help in that way.
Can you not ignore them and get on with the thread ? It was far more interesting.
I would like to hear more about how cannabis can help people with a mental illness as Gleber2 mentioned in an earlier post, if one of the side effects is paranoia........Trish. :o)
(or is it affects, having one of my many dipsy moments)
Trish please dont even go down that road, those two in here that are selling the idea that cannabis will cure all, are just a couple of so called intelligent users of this illeagal substance,
Trish please dont even go down that road, those two in here that are selling the idea that cannabis will cure all, are just a couple of so called intelligent users of this illeagal substance,
Trish catch me in Yahoo soon and I will chat more to you
Bigoted, blinkered, prejudiced, stubborn, out of date, etc. all things I haver said to you on this thread. Never have you shown the justification so clearly as you have in this last post.
Never, at anytime in 38 years of knowledge of and use of the drug, have I claimed that it would cure all ills. If you go back to the beginning of this thread you will see the reasons behind my belief that we need to address the problem of drugs in this country. It is getting worse and your chosen ways are demonstrably not working. We need to find away out of the hole that insane legislation has dug for us and find a way to solve the problems which we have right now. I have no personal axe to grind because legalisation or nonlegalisation will make little difference to my life but it might save young lives that are being put at risk because of the attitude of people like you.
As far as the others who have been posting the rubbish are concerned, I will continue to treat their assertions with the contempt they so obviously deserve. If they find the subject and the treatment of it so unsavoury they are at liberty to ignore it all as I will proceed to ignore their childish mouthing off.
rich62_uk
11-Apr-06, 00:24
This is true, there was this bloke some years ago by the nick name of dangerous Dave who had a few issues, he smoked dope which some people believe stopped him from killing.
My thoughts/worries/concern are that if dangerous Dave was susceptible to paranoia and the dope enhanced this, then it could of been a different story that I was now telling, it would be about dangerous Dave who killed because of his paranoia which was drug induced, it is a bit of a worry........Trish.
Chobbersjnr
11-Apr-06, 01:14
sycophantic sheep!
what a name for a band.........................
try crossing with an elephant= sycophantic elesheep
I can't help but agree.................you can't be told enough of the nasties that are in tobacco,what they do & the long term suffering YOU WILL RECEIVE (they should make it illegal, see how many law breakers there are then??) but next to no-one can tell you what is in street tar...........except what I've seen at the start of this thread..............
I agree G2 does that make me you??????????
some of you need a comedy slot on ITV....................honestly
I'm off to fly my pig
I was banned but keeping up with threads & now I'm back to bug you all with a clean fresh soapy washed mouth:Razz
Cjnr
Bingobabe
11-Apr-06, 01:26
I don't know whether it has ever killed anyone, but it can kill a person's mind. My whole family has been put to hell and back because of one person's addiction to that drug.Yes agree to a certain extent i also have a family member who used cannibas for years and he ended up mentally ill because of it.But i can understand why people take it.I belive it can be a great stress releaver and stress can also become a killer.
Yes agree to a certaint extent i also have a family member who used cannibas for years and he ended up mentally ill because of it.But i can understand why people take it.I belive it can be a great stress releaver and stress can also become a killer.
Cannabis is a convenient scapegoat in many situatioins. I am not making any definitive statements here, but have you considered that cannabis might not have been the cause of the mental problems you outline. There are many possible root causes for mental breakdown but, when the person in question is a user of the weed, it is always the weed that is blamed. It may work as a catalyst in some cases, thus triggering the latent problems, but it is not nescessary the root cause.
what a name for a band.........................
try crossing with an elephant= sycophantic elesheep
I can't help but agree.................you can't be told enough of the nasties that are in tobacco,what they do & the long term suffering YOU WILL RECEIVE (they should make it illegal, see how many law breakers there are then??) but next to no-one can tell you what is in street tar...........except what I've seen at the start of this thread..............
I agree G2 does that make me you??????????
some of you need a comedy slot on ITV....................honestly
I'm off to fly my pig
I was banned but keeping up with threads & now I'm back to bug you all with a clean fresh soapy washed mouth:Razz
Cjnr
Reading your posts could give a person cataracts.:confused
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