View Full Version : Should the EU welcome more refugees?
Alice in Blunderland
03-Sep-09, 06:52
The European Commission has unveiled plans to allow more refugees from conflict zones and poor nations into European countries. What do you think?
Under the plans, EU members would jointly decide which refugee groups would receive priority resettlement, although EU nations would be free to decide whether and in what numbers they wished to resettle.
The scheme is aimed at discouraging illegal immigrants, mainly from Africa. They often rely on human traffickers and risk their lives as they try to enter the EU on rickety boats.
What do you think of the new plans?
Would welcoming more refugees curb illegal immigration?
Would you want the UK to participate in the scheme?
Isn't it just a scheme to rebrand an illegal immigrant into a legal immigrant just because the EU member governments can't admit to having failed on illegal immigration.
"Hey look, vote for us, we are doing are great job because the numbers of illegal immigrants have reduced dramatically!"
I welcome genuine refugees however with European Union involvement I read that as let's dump the lot in Britain...plus we're favoured by refugees because of our soft touch welfare state. I doubt very much if it'll curb illegal immigration, those refused legal entry will still try to get in, knowing that our judicial process will allow them at least 2 yrs of easy living here before being returned to their home nation.
Alice in Blunderland
03-Sep-09, 08:58
I do feel it will fail to tackle the issue of illegal immigrants.
I remember years ago while living in Livingston the influx of what was termed 'boat people' who were given a place to live and allowed to settle in large numbers. The unrest this caused was huge.
tonkatojo
03-Sep-09, 14:41
I welcome genuine refugees however with European Union involvement I read that as let's dump the lot in Britain...plus we're favoured by refugees because of our soft touch welfare state. I doubt very much if it'll curb illegal immigration, those refused legal entry will still try to get in, knowing that our judicial process will allow them at least 2 yrs of easy living here before being returned to their home nation.
How many are "genuine refugees" ? what is the definition of a refugee as stated by the UN ?.
How many are "genuine refugees" ? what is the definition of a refugee as stated by the UN ?.
I don't know and ....erm...I don't know. :eek:
My ill-informed, half-assed view is neither here nor there, it will be you and I and millions like us who have to suffer the consequences of whatever decisions taken by the EU regarding immigrants. Those in power willl never accept responsibility when anything goes wrong.
tonkatojo
03-Sep-09, 14:55
I don't know and ....erm...I don't know. :eek:
My ill-informed, half-assed view is neither here nor there, it will be you and I and millions like us who have to suffer the consequences of whatever decisions taken by the EU regarding immigrants. Those in power willl never accept responsibility when anything goes wrong.
Where is Alan16 when you want him. :( ;)
The European Commission has unveiled plans to allow more refugees from conflict zones and poor nations into European countries. What do you think?
Under the plans, EU members would jointly decide which refugee groups would receive priority resettlement, although EU nations would be free to decide whether and in what numbers they wished to resettle.
The scheme is aimed at discouraging illegal immigrants, mainly from Africa. They often rely on human traffickers and risk their lives as they try to enter the EU on rickety boats.
What do you think of the new plans?
Would welcoming more refugees curb illegal immigration?
Would you want the UK to participate in the scheme?
I watched an interesting documentary called Gypsy Child Thieves last night. Since Romania became part of the EU a large part of their gypsy population has made its way into other European countries. Last night's programme mainly focussed on Spain and Italy and the problems caused by the influx of Gypsies. Gypsy families send out their children to beg and steal money. This was mostly done by pickpocketing and hanging around cash machines to steal from those withdrawing money. Children as young as eight would work in pairs, timing a lunge at the button to request the maximum available sum after the customer had entered their pin. They would then attempt to snatch the cash as it was dispensed. Even fit adults had to sometimes get help from passers-by to fend of the young boys and girls who were trying to get their money. The children involved were sometimes taken away by Police but, due to their age, were released shortly afterwards. The children then returned to the Gypsy camp on the edge of the city and were free to start again the next day. The kids admitted to earning 200 to 300 Euros on a good day. It was depressing to see Gypsy girls, aged 13, being sold by their Fathers to prospective husbands. A premium was paid if the girl was still a virgin and the marriage was consummated the night before the ceremony, with celebrations carried out if the girl was indeed a virgin. One Father bemoaned the fact that he sold his daughter 15 years previously for a mere 800 Euro equivalent, while the local girl just sold had gone for 7000 Euros. "It's all down to the stealing ability these girls have now" he explained. "In these foreign countries, a good thief girl can earn back the 7000 Euros in just a few weeks". We go on to learn that another local girl of 13 has a 25000 Euro price tag on her.
In Italy, we are told, the problem is more serious and controversial. An Italian Minister wants to ban Romanians from the country but bemoans that it cannot be done due to them being part of the EU now. Every now and then the residents of the camps are told to move on and the camp is crushed with bulldozers. Local residents hold a party to celebrate the Gypsies being moved on. One resident states that it is only temporary relief, as they will simply move somewhere else close at hand, or be back again later. Another resident states more bluntly "We really need to kill these people, but we can't"
Some people were trying to offer help to the Gypsies in Italy. Gypsy families whose children had been attending school were offered a place to stay and provided with food, on the understanding that their children went to school every day and did not steal or beg. The families seemed happy with a roof over their heads but we are later told by a young boy that his Mother is still asking him to beg from time to time.
Back in Romania a local Wheeler Dealer explains that stealing has been a way of life for Gypsies like himself. He takes a tour of the local area in his big Mercedes and points out the huge mansion houses built by locals who have earned their money from having gangs of Gypsies overseas, even as far afield as Australia, making money through stealing, begging, prostitution etc. Even he is concerned that this way of life has gone too far and that Gypsies will end up unwelcome everywhere they try to go. "Who will have us?" he asks.
Who indeed?
tonkatojo
03-Sep-09, 17:21
Trebuchet!
Do you mean you would hurl them back with a large catapult ?.
Do you mean you would hurl them back with a large catapult ?.
:evil
Harsh but fair!
tonkatojo
03-Sep-09, 18:47
:evil
Harsh but fair!
Now this I would agree with you. ;)
bluechesse
03-Sep-09, 19:09
Personally I think it's fine as long as they are bringing some sort of skill to the country thats either not readily available here, or in short supply.
If they are simply coming over to sign on, I think the giant catapult is an absolutley excelent idea:lol:.
There are already plenty of people who dont want to work in this country, and regretable not all of them are immigrants, illegal or otherwise.
Could make some of the moochers operate the cutapult too, make them do something usefull for their money!
no, not unto the recession is over anyway.
I think Ill stay out of this one.
Do you mean you would hurl them back with a large catapult ?.
I'm pretty confident with the correct construction and appropriate weighting, a trebuchet could be built on the cliff tops at Dover that, wind taken into account, may make the shores of France.
But then may not!
Anyhow, when I'm el Presidente here's how it will work:
Anybody turning up at the shores & ports in the UK wishing to live here must deposit say £20k, further more they will not be allowed to make any claim on state benefits, housing, NHS, welfare etc. They must take out appropriate insurances or fund it directly for the first 10 years after their arrival.
Failure to comply - to the trebuchet.
Should they find themselves destitute/unfit for work/skint etc. within the 10 year period then they can have access to the £20k to fly them back to wherever and or cover medical bills etc.
Or just take the £20k and - to the trebuchet.
If within the 10 years they can prove they have paid their taxes into the system they can then be eligible for 1 month of benefits for every year paid up.
After 15 (ish) years they can become full members and have access to whatever they require.
Refugees can make their applications in writing whilst enjoying the french hospitality.
However should anyone try and trick their way into the country via the back of a wagon - to the trebuchet.
;)
The trebuchet has no limits, think of prison overcrowding:
You can serve xxx years or - to the trebuchet.
(peadophiles will have no option - to the trebuchet with extra weights on their feet)
General elections: if you don't win your seat - to the trebuchet.
Noisy exhausts - to the trebuchet.
Berks who..... - to the trebuchet.
Blind referees - to the trebuchet.
:cool:
Alice in Blunderland
03-Sep-09, 21:55
Phill when are you standing for PM I can see your trebuchet policy getting you elected. :D
One or two of your rules are already in place well watered down but they can be found in the immigration rules. :)
bluechesse
03-Sep-09, 21:58
You have my vote Phill.
My vote too phill. Can I get the job of releasing the arm?
Phill when are you standing for PM I can see your trebuchet policy getting you elected. :D
One or two of your rules are already in place well watered down but they can be found in the immigration rules. :)
The only watering down in my trebuchet policies will be the victims, ahem, passengers.
:D
You have my vote Phill.
My vote too phill. Can I get the job of releasing the arm?
Sadly I will not be standing for election for fear of falling foul of my own policies:
General elections: if you don't win your seat - to the trebuchet.However I've not ruled out an Orgers coup, or a plain old dictatorship :evil
Jox, Hmmm..... one mans trebuchet and all that. Not sure about people fiddling with my mechanism.
However, a fleet of trebuchets!! (would it be fleet or a battery?)
You could be C in C of the trebuchets. I would have to retain my own personal trebuchet, which would have to be the biggest obviously!
;)
The European Commission has unveiled plans to allow more refugees from conflict zones and poor nations into European countries. What do you think?
Under the plans, EU members would jointly decide which refugee groups would receive priority resettlement, although EU nations would be free to decide whether and in what numbers they wished to resettle.
The scheme is aimed at discouraging illegal immigrants, mainly from Africa. They often rely on human traffickers and risk their lives as they try to enter the EU on rickety boats.
What do you think of the new plans?
Would welcoming more refugees curb illegal immigration?
Would you want the UK to participate in the scheme?
Not much,
No
No
What a load of old crap has been posted in response to this thread. No wonder people can't be bothered to post here anymore. I tried to put something worthwhile in. Spent a bit of time doing so. All for nothing.
To quote Kenneth Williams:-
"What's the Bloody Point"
They say that Crayola shall inherit the org. How long will they keep her?
Bye.
Margaret M.
04-Sep-09, 03:08
They say that Crayola shall inherit the org. How long will they keep her?
Scorrie, you cannot leave us at the mercy of Crayola and her perky bosoms. Stick around, you are a quality poster!
If we cant afford to look after our pensioners and our NHS is overstretched how can we let more people in?
We should draw a line at Dover and state that if you wish to contribute to our society then come in, if on the other hand you want to come here,have 3 wives milk our system then dont let the door hit you on the way out!!!
Too many come here because we are so soft on immigration, time to get the catapult out and fling them back to france who allow "lose them" from their Holiday park detention centre!!:roll:
Alice in Blunderland
04-Sep-09, 07:53
If we cant afford to look after our pensioners and our NHS is overstretched how can we let more people in?
We should draw a line at Dover and state that if you wish to contribute to our society then come in, if on the other hand you want to come here,have 3 wives milk our system then dont let the door hit you on the way out!!!
Too many come here because we are so soft on immigration, time to get the catapult out and fling them back to france who allow "lose them" from their Holiday park detention centre!!:roll:
True we do not seem to be able to look after our pensioners and the NHS does seem to be stretched to almost its limits but that said on tightening immigration rules you have to be careful you dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
A proper well thought out immigration policy should be implemented and adhered too. Many of the recent changes in legislation have been knee-jerk reactions to public out-crys. The end result some places are now feeling when employing foreign workers or are unable to recruit in certain areas because of these new rules.
As Scorrie has so rightly put it in his post .........WHo will have these refugees.
Would it not be better to see them distributed amongst all EU countries rather than them all seeing Britain as the easiest option ?
The other EU countries have the guts to refuse entry but who would want to go there when they can come to soft touch Britain and get more than they have ever dreamed of.
annemarie482
05-Sep-09, 00:05
If we cant afford to look after our pensioners and our NHS is overstretched how can we let more people in?
We should draw a line at Dover and state that if you wish to contribute to our society then come in, if on the other hand you want to come here,have 3 wives milk our system then dont let the door hit you on the way out!!!
Too many come here because we are so soft on immigration, time to get the catapult out and fling them back to france who allow "lose them" from their Holiday park detention centre!!:roll:
quite agree!
bout time we started "fixing" our own before saving the world!:roll:
Boozeburglar
05-Sep-09, 00:14
Withdraw from all the useless wars we are involved in and scrap the nuclear crap, then welcome and harbour all the enemies of the terrorists.
Much more effectual in the long run.
:)
bluechesse
05-Sep-09, 17:04
Withdraw from all the useless wars we are involved in and scrap the nuclear crap, then welcome and harbour all the enemies of the terrorists.
Much more effectual in the long run.
:)
If I read this right, you are suggesting we withdraw all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, then welcome and harbour the enemies of terrorists world wide?
I wont get in to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan thing, thats a whole different debate. But, firstly, if you were to welcome the enemies of all terrorist organisations in to the country at the same time, I have the feeling it could make for quite a volatile situation within the United Kingdom its self! Would that not end up encouraging terrorism from within?
Also, do you not think that may make us the prime target for all terrorist organisations world wide, since all their enemies would be solely contained on our wee island? I dont think this is a very well thought out plan at all!
I think it's bad enough that we are a target of any terrorist network, without encouraging them!
What "nuclear crap" are you refering to? Weapons or energy sources?
If I have understood correctly, all in all I'm quite glad you dont have any influence on our government! Please tell me you dont.........:eek:
It's important to distinguish between refugees and migrants.
I'd always open the door to a refugee from conflict or persecution or whatever. A migrant, however, should be able to demonstrate their value to the country the want to move to, e.g. bringing a skill that is in short supply.
Alice in Blunderland
06-Sep-09, 08:43
If all of the EU were to agree to accept refugees would this not help Britain out as then there would be more places for them to go to and possibly be accepted. At present most of the thought process seems to be 'get to Britain they will look after us once we are in'.
By all the countries signing up to this it would send out a different message would it not. :confused
I do feel it will fail to tackle the issue of illegal immigrants.
I remember years ago while living in Livingston the influx of what was termed 'boat people' who were given a place to live and allowed to settle in large numbers. The unrest this caused was huge.
Where we lived in London the local council welcomed a large number of Vietnamese boat people.These people were given houses and welfare handouts.Most of them integrated into the community, but 20+ years down the line there were lots who didnt even bother to learn to speak English because everything was done for them.
tonkatojo
06-Sep-09, 11:40
If all of the EU were to agree to accept refugees would this not help Britain out as then there would be more places for them to go to and possibly be accepted. At present most of the thought process seems to be 'get to Britain they will look after us once we are in'.
By all the countries signing up to this it would send out a different message would it not. :confused
That's a jolly good idea, I wonder why those other countries will not implement your ideology.
They'r not daft is the answer.
Alice in Blunderland
06-Sep-09, 17:13
The only way it would work is if everyone of the countries took on board this.
It could be seen as a way to reducing illegal immigrants. They are going to keep on coming until the whole system is changed.
tonkatojo
06-Sep-09, 21:38
The only way it would work is if everyone of the countries took on board this.
It could be seen as a way to reducing illegal immigrants. They are going to keep on coming until the whole system is changed.
Aye your right straight past them other countries (as if they care ) and into ours.
Alice in Blunderland
06-Sep-09, 23:29
Aye your right straight past them other countries (as if they care ) and into ours.
To be honest if I were in their shoes and I heard that Britain was a soft touch and I was desperate I would do the exact same thing. :)
'Some of these folks truly have nothing and will do anything to get a better life for themselves and their families. I don't blame them, I blame the whole set up of this country.
I blame the whole set up of this country.
Are we a victim of our success providing we don't go for independence?:confused
The only way it would work is if everyone of the countries took on board this.
It could be seen as a way to reducing illegal immigrants. They are going to keep on coming until the whole system is changed.
Thread is titled refugees. You are talking about illegal immigrants. There is a difference.
Unlike what many people on here think, other European countries do have assylum systems for refugees. They are not given a card that says go past us, straight to Britian-land-of-milk-and-honey. I am speaking from first hand experience, having lived in several european countries and never having been shy about volunteering and speaking with all kinds of different people. Of course, having actually seen something doesn't count for much on here unless you can back it up with countless bonafied sources.
Alice in Blunderland
07-Sep-09, 08:48
Thread is titled refugees. You are talking about illegal immigrants. There is a difference.
I know but I was in a way replying to the general thoughts before hand where the illegal immigrant and refugee issue has somewhat become a little mixed.
The whole immigration set up is a mess and because of this people will also feel apprehensive regarding refugees.
In their eyes its one and the same 'come to our country bleed the state and live alright' not my words just the general oppinion that seems to come forward. :)
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