Defamation and the internet

[pinotnoir]

Some of the comments being made on this forum strike me as defamatory with regard to individuals and businesses.

There has been a legal case where a plaintiff was awarded £450,000 in damages in a case of internet defamation.

Perhaps the moderators need better training in the legal implications of allowing anonymous unsubstantiated criticisms of businesses, with no right of reply, to be freely displayed on this forum.

[octane]

I would take it onboard as constructive critisism which may improve your customer relations and improve your company. Plus there are quite a few businesses whom are just cowboy outfits and I quite agree they are named and shamed on here to stop other people falling foul of shabby work.

We all work hard and earn what we can, not to blow it away on a botch job which costs even more to get someone else to fix up properly. Plus with the mental affect this could have on some people too, so bring on the court battles if I should ever be in that situation and I would obliterate them into financial ruin, serving justice for the others who have suffered as well.

[Amy-Winehouse]

There isnt anything stopping the offended business owners joining Caithness.org to `repent their sins` or explain themselves. As Octane stated we all work hard for our money each week & to spend it on shoddy workmanship, or rip off services does not sit well on my priorities list.

A few businesses up here take the money & dont give a monkeys about customer satisfaction , probably because they have no competition & can take the pee out of the locals as they can & will. Im not saying every business in Wick or Thurso does this , because that isnt the case far from it.

I think the recommendations threads are a good idea, because if your business is in it getting ripped apart then you know, or should know its time to change the way you operate

[silverfox57]

There isnt anything stopping the offended business owners joining Caithness.org to `repent their sins` or explain themselves. As Octane stated we all work hard for our money each week & to spend it on shoddy workmanship, or rip off services does not sit well on my priorities list.

A few businesses up here take the money & dont give a monkeys about customer satisfaction , probably because they have no competition & can take the pee out of the locals as they can & will. Im not saying every business in Wick or Thurso does this , because that isnt the case far from it.

I think the recommendations threads are a good idea, because if your business is in it getting ripped apart then you know, or should know its time to change the way you operate
agree with you,as any good trademan or business have nothing to
fear,its the cowboys that dont want there scams exposed on here

[hotrod4]

Some of the comments being made on this forum strike me as defamatory with regard to individuals and businesses.

There has been a legal case where a plaintiff was awarded £450,000 in damages in a case of internet defamation.

Perhaps the moderators need better training in the legal implications of allowing anonymous unsubstantiated criticisms of businesses, with no right of reply, to be freely displayed on this forum.
Maybe you should have read this bit of the rules first before posting?:
While the administrators and moderators of Caithness.Org Forums will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and neither the owners of Caithness.Org Forums, its moderators and administrators, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.:roll:

[Venture]

Some of the comments being made on this forum strike me as defamatory with regard to individuals and businesses.

There has been a legal case where a plaintiff was awarded £450,000 in damages in a case of internet defamation.

Perhaps the moderators need better training in the legal implications of allowing anonymous unsubstantiated criticisms of businesses, with no right of reply, to be freely displayed on this forum.


They do have the right to reply. They can register, join and reply.

[Alice in Blunderland]

We all work hard and earn what we can, not to blow it away on a botch job which costs even more to get someone else to fix up properly. Plus with the mental affect this could have on some people too, so bring on the court battles if I should ever be in that situation and I would obliterate them into financial ruin, serving justice for the others who have suffered as well.

I so agree with this statement. :)

[Mrs Bucket]

Free speech .........

[Cobblynob]

They do have the right to reply. They can register, join and reply.

That may be the case, but that means giving up their anonymity to "defend" against what is in almost every case an anonymous post. How easy it is to hide behind a user name and criticise without fear of being found out.

Perhaps posters should stop and ask themselves "Would I put this in a letter to the paper?" before they post derogatory comments about anyone or any business/shop/restaurant online, if the answer is no then don't post, if it's yes then make sure you use your own name and address as you would to in a letter to an Editor. And make sure that what you are saying is wholly true.

[butterfly]

There isnt anything stopping the offended business owners joining Caithness.org to `repent their sins` or explain themselves. As Octane stated we all work hard for our money each week & to spend it on shoddy workmanship, or rip off services does not sit well on my priorities list.

A few businesses up here take the money & dont give a monkeys about customer satisfaction , probably because they have no competition & can take the pee out of the locals as they can & will. Im not saying every business in Wick or Thurso does this , because that isnt the case far from it.

I think the recommendations threads are a good idea, because if your business is in it getting ripped apart then you know, or should know its time to change the way you operate



Agree there.A good tradesman has nothing to worry about if he is doing the job properly.It's the cowboys who should worry.

[Penelope Pitstop]

That may be the case, but that means giving up their anonymity to "defend" against what is in almost every case an anonymous post. How easy it is to hide behind a user name and criticise without fear of being found out.

Perhaps posters should stop and ask themselves "Would I put this in a letter to the paper?" before they post derogatory comments about anyone or any business/shop/restaurant online, if the answer is no then don't post, if it's yes then make sure you use your own name and address as you would to in a letter to an Editor. And make sure that what you are saying is wholly true.

That's a good point.

[George Brims]

Free speech doesn't give you the right to slander someone. And I can tell you something else: just because you're telling the truth as you see it doesn't mean you are not liable to be sued for slander. In fact if you spread vicious enough *truth* about someone in a persistent way that is clearly meant to damage the person's reputation rather than protest a wrong, you are definitely liable.

On the other hand, a bit of constructive criticism shouldn't be discouraged, and I have seen one or two occasions where companies have replied here on the forums to criticism of their service. I thought much better of them for doing it.

[_Ju_]

Defamation, slander and libel only happen when someone recounts as a fact a lie that damages a persons reputation. So if a cowboy does shoddy workmanship for you and you communicate your opinion of his/her work, it is not slander. First because it is an opinion, secondly because you are telling the truth about their work. Word of mouth is excellent for local businesses but it works both ways. You have to do good business to get good word of mouth. Or do you think a business is entitled to only good word of mouth?

[Leanne]

Or do you think a business is entitled to only good word of mouth?

It is all about opinion. One person's opinion of good/bad wrkmanship is different to another's. I know someone who gave reports of someone as being a shoddy workman when in fact the problem was that they thought they were "messy" as they didn't tidy up after themselves (they were asked to do the job as cheaply as possible, not clearing up fully saved the person half an hours labour ;) ). People often don't explain fully what problems are on the internet and we certainly don't get both sides of the story...

[bluechesse]

Hmm, I dont think the posting of constructive criticism could be the basis for any legal action, but what quite possibly could is the posting of what is mearly some ones opinion, but is stated by the individual as being a fact. This is something that appears to be very prevalent on this forum, people criticising the work of a professional with out having any actual knowledge of the the trade. It seems that as soon as one person posts something about what he/she sees as being "shoddy service", there are many others ready to jump on the band wagon. And I'm afraid that, in many cases, it is obvious that a good number of these posters dont have any technical knowledge to back up these remarks (well, in my opinion anyway:lol:), and that can be constrewed as defamatory in some cases.

Similarly, there seem to be a great many people who expect something for nothing. I saw a post recently which cast a local garage (fair enough, the garage wasn't named) in a fairly bad light because they charged to simply "look" at a fault. Well I'm afraid that "looking" at a fault takes time. A mechanic will be payed for his time regardless of what he is doing, so in order for him to take time from fixing something to look at something else costs money. Posts which indicate that a business has "ripped them off" to some extent, when infact the charge for the service carried out is perfectly legitimate, are most definately defamatory. I dont know the specifics of the post I have referred to, and in truth I only gave it a very quick glance, I'm just using this as an example, so no offence meant to the persons who posted on that perticular thread:cool:.

If you are going to post about shoddy work by a professional business to warn others, then by all means do, but ensure that what you are posting is 100% accurate and has been confirmed by the guy that put it right (another professional, not a cowboy) or by someone who has some technical knowledge of the task. Otherwise your opinion is just that, an opinion, and could quite easily be taken to be defamatory.

[George Brims]

I have absolutely no objection to a garage charging me for a competent mechanic's time to diagnose a problem, especially nowadays when they have the computer readout gadgets that can tell you what's going on with your engine. On the other hand, you don't want them telling you you need the wrong thing fixed, and costing you a lot of extra money, which if I recall was the issue with the garage that was slagged off recently.

[George Brims]

Defamation, slander and libel only happen when someone recounts as a fact a lie that damages a persons reputation.
I used to think that but I was corrected on this some time ago. If I tell the person next door, in confidence, that the woman across the street is doing sexual favours for the milkman, that's gossip. If I go down Bridge Street like Slevery Geordie and tell everyone I meet the same story, that's slander, even though it's the truth. (Of course Geordie couldn't be held liable. The poor bloke would repeat anything people told him.)

[bluechesse]

I have absolutely no objection to a garage charging me for a competent mechanic's time to diagnose a problem, especially nowadays when they have the computer readout gadgets that can tell you what's going on with your engine. On the other hand, you don't want them telling you you need the wrong thing fixed, and costing you a lot of extra money, which if I recall was the issue with the garage that was slagged off recently.
Yip, that was the original issue right enough. As I said, I didn't pay too much attention, I was just using it as an example. As long as the person giving the garage a hard time did so after having his / her suspicions confirmed by another professional mechanic. IF however, the garages diagnosis was confirmed as incorrect by a long lost aunties brothers best friends dogs second cousin once removed (I'm not saying it was, before I get jumped on!:lol:), who changed the break pads on his car in 19 oatcake and is therefore a mechanic, and she he / she then tells the whole of Caithness that the garage ripped him / her off, that can be constrewed as slander.

Im not making a point over that post in particular, just making the point that there are a lot of *facts* being quoted all the time that are in fact not fact, just opinion. And that is where the trouble can arise.

[bluechesse]

I used to think that but I was corrected on this some time ago. If I tell the person next door, in confidence, that the woman across the street is doing sexual favours for the milkman, that's gossip. If I go down Bridge Street like Slevery Geordie and tell everyone I meet the same story, that's slander, even though it's the truth. (Of course Geordie couldn't be held liable. The poor bloke would repeat anything people told him.)
Whats the woman across the road done to you George?:lol::lol::lol:

[maverick]

I always thought that the recomendations thread was to help promote business in the county, its quite right to tell the community about good service recieved.
What I believe to be wrong is slating a business or individual behind the guise of a username, if you have a problem with an individual then take your problem up with that individual first, make some kind of attempt to resolve the issue between the two parties concerned and then if you feel that you need to post your concerns on the org. Make sure that what you are saying can be proved because it doesn't matter how many disclaimers you put on the org, slander or defamation by annonymous third parties could put the org owners in a sticky legal mess. Point being why should the org be punished because of disgruntled individuals.

[Bobinovich]

Although the forum is called Recommendations, it must also work the opposite way - i.e. to indicate to others where to avoid - generally due to bad service more than anything else.

We all know that some places can have off days - can't we all - so where a user indicates a problem, you will often find others coming to the defence. However where a number of users are describing similar experiences, it may be a wake-up call to the management / staff of that establishment that there could be a internal problem.

If you read through some of the threads, there have been numerous mentions of users having complained directly to the business in question, only to be met with indifference, abuse, and even bans from the establishment. It has also been said that many do not like face-to-face confrontation so will instead vote with their feet and let their fellow Orgers know.

Finally as has been posted previousl, a number of businesses have registered on the Org and defended their right to post their side of the story, and I have no doubt they could rant all day about bad customers they have had!!