View Full Version : A New Dounreay
I've been thinking since a while that with all the new shops and developement coming to the county that a new dounreay could be on it's way, what I wondered was how everybody would feel about this??
Why Not! we need the job's and the money,to be put back into the county, let's face it as we all know the oil, coal, gas is not going to last for ever, yes maybe our life but not our grand/great grand kid's:cry:. Nuclear is the way of the future.
Sooner the better.
Here, here Old bean:grin: :grin: :grin:
I've been thinking since a while that with all the new shops and developement coming to the county that a new dounreay could be on it's way, what I wondered was how everybody would feel about this??
I can't think why they would want to build a nuclear power station here now they know that they are reasonably safe.
knightofeth
26-Mar-06, 10:13
I can't think why they would want to build a nuclear power station here now they know that they are reasonably safe.
Maybe because there is the expertise here already.
teritoots
26-Mar-06, 14:08
I really hope they do build a new nuclear power station here we have the expertise and most people would welcome it!
I think they should solve the problem they have with this station before they consider starting another they don't know what to do with the mess they have already seems to me they should learn to walk before they can run.
There'll be no new nuclear plant in Dounreay unless the technology behind the transport of energy improves. On getting the energy any distance down south 25% is lost which makes it highly inefficient, especially when considering the wasye produced. If there are new nuclear plants they will be futher south, closer to the large cities that need them.
I know Caithness needs the jobs, but are they really as good as people think? Waste which is radioactive for thousands of years, which our children's children etc will still have to live with. Also, the main reason for building nuclear power stations was for making warheads, the power is just a sideline. Also, with all the decommissioning, it will never make any money. Renewable energy has to be invested into more, to harness the massive power sitting off the coast. The energy in the sea is all just wasted.
I quite agree with you dozerboy that the sea could be a valuable sorce for renewable energy. I would welcome another Dounreay as it's been good for the county, but I don't want to see the beautiful Caithness countryside covered with wind turbines.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
26-Mar-06, 22:33
From what I have seen since I arrived in Caithness, Dounreay has been a good economical way of life for folk who work there and for the county itself.
Radiation scares don't really bother me.Cos this third arm that I've grown since I arrived means I get more work done.:lol: :lol:
I think they should solve the problem they have with this station before they consider starting another they don't know what to do with the mess they have already seems to me they should learn to walk before they can run.
I couldn't agree more , I cant believe that people worship Dounreay so much knowing that they have been hiding the truth from us about destroying our enviroment for so long!!
So they might have two cars in their drive thanks to the money they have made from Dounreay, what about how tourism has been hit by all the bad press about the place!!
pultneytooner
27-Mar-06, 01:13
As usual caithness was used as an experiment with dounreay.
Did dounreay give anybody in caithness cheaper electricity bills as promised?
pultneytooner
27-Mar-06, 01:16
Leukemia, Is that the trade off for having 2 cars in your driveway?
My point exactly, but just wait till tomorrow and see how many Dounreay lovers leave posts scolding us for speaking out about their beloved employer, will they think twice if the are diagnosed with something awfull (which I truly hope never happens) will they see the error in their ways?
As long as people see the "need" for convenience appliances and the like... the more and more power we will crave.
Nuclear is DANGEROUS and very unhealthy. And the more energy they produce in Caithness.. whether it be wind or nuclear... what comes with it is high voltage cables and pylons which are a constant danger to anyone living near them. More so than second hand smoke I might add.
Maybe the answer in a lower density populated place is personal or community energy schemes. Wind, solar, perhaps tidal and new design of housing to be passive solar. That and a tax on "convenience appliances" microwaves, dishwashers etc.
As long as people see the "need" for convenience appliances and the like... the more and more power we will crave.
Nuclear is DANGEROUS and very unhealthy. And the more energy they produce in Caithness.. whether it be wind or nuclear... what comes with it is high voltage cables and pylons which are a constant danger to anyone living near them. More so than second hand smoke I might add.
Maybe the answer in a lower density populated place is personal or community energy schemes. Wind, solar, perhaps tidal and new design of housing to be passive solar. That and a tax on "convenience appliances" microwaves, dishwashers etc.
"DANGEROUS?"
More deep sea fishermen die every year as a result of their work than people working in the nuclear industry, or even civilians not related to the industry.
FACT
Remember that when you're having your next chippy supper.
Whitewater
27-Mar-06, 10:48
There'll be no new nuclear plant in Dounreay unless the technology behind the transport of energy improves. On getting the energy any distance down south 25% is lost which makes it highly inefficient, especially when considering the wasye produced. If there are new nuclear plants they will be futher south, closer to the large cities that need them.
A windmill is only 25% efficient to start with so where is the power expected to go.
The sooner we get nuclear the better, whether it is at Dounreay or not. At least a proper power station (whether nuclear, hydro, coal or oil) can afford to loose 25% and still produce a pay load at the other end.
Nuclear is DANGEROUS and very unhealthy.
As I understand it, workers in the nuclear industry live healthier and longer lives.
mostlyharmless
27-Mar-06, 11:13
No I don't think there will be another nuclear power plant and even if there was the manning of such a place would not be anything like dounreay, as I understand it a decent nuclear power station in France has about 25 staff.
Wind power is fine and I'd rather have it than nuclear, seems selfish to leave the waste of today for generations of children to come.
I've lived near wind turbines before and they are not that bad, seems selfish to compare a bad view[windmills] with something we still don't know how to dispose with properly.
Chernobyll is always dragged up as a bad example
but I know first hand that generations of children will never be the same again ...I'm sure they'd prefer a bad view!
France its true have very proficient and safe nuclear power supplys but its not for me I'd rather have my own windmill and solar panels thanks.
Wind is not the answer entirely but perhaps wave .. hydro electric etc could be.
A windmill is only 25% efficient to start with so where is the power expected to go.
The sooner we get nuclear the better, whether it is at Dounreay or not. At least a proper power station (whether nuclear, hydro, coal or oil) can afford to loose 25% and still produce a pay load at the other end.
duh??? What I said that if the country goes nuclear again it won't be out here in the stacks.
knightofeth
27-Mar-06, 11:44
Wind power is fine and I'd rather have it than nuclear, seems selfish to leave the waste of today for generations of children to come.
I've lived near wind turbines before and they are not that bad, seems selfish to compare a bad view[windmills] with something we still don't know how to dispose with properly.
I think a little bit of nuclear waste would be a better legacy to leave for the future than no oil, gas or coal and a lot more global warming. Wind power alone wont be enough to bridge the gap and if we burn all the oil what will people in the future use for plastics etc?
Whether we like it or not the country will have to do something about providing the power we need for our everyday needs. Coal in running out, so will oil. No one has perfected the use of wind or wave power. If they don't get a move on the expertise already in the country to run a nuclear plant will be lost as they will all have retired. We can only hope that they have learned lessons about health & safety. If we don't want another one in Caithness is it a case of NIMBY. Can anyone come up with a different/safe and economical power source?
Sorrry to it to all you sceptic's that nuclear is the only way forward for the future.[smirk]
mostlyharmless
27-Mar-06, 12:49
"A little bit of nuclear waste!"
Nuclear production releases poisonous radioactivity into the air, soil and water as part of normal operations. Radioactive substances give off alpha and beta particles and gamma rays which can harm living cells. A high dose of radiation can lead to death within days or weeks, and low doses of radiation are now known to be much more damaging to health than previously thought. Ongoing exposure to so-called low-level radiation can cause severe, enduring human health problems, both to those exposed and to their descendants.
Thats before I talk about the horrendous conditions in which uranium is mined and how plutonium is dumped.
But the same as everything else these days nuclear power is convenient..
We should look at every possible way of saving energy and producing our own energy for our own homes
If you are talking about the electricity of rural areas such as Caithness sun,wind,hydroelectric,wave etc could be used .If you're talking huge cities then no it can't but there may be eventual alternatives we should put a stack of money in now to find out.....
Instead of going back to nuclear with the convenient threat of global warming supporting its introduction.
No I don't want oil or coal alternatives but there are others..
"DANGEROUS?"
More deep sea fishermen die every year as a result of their work than people working in the nuclear industry, or even civilians not related to the industry.
FACT
Remember that when you're having your next chippy supper.
Fishermen dont leave behind radioactive pollution that will affect not only us but our children and our childrens children... mmmm fish supper.. I do love a good haddie supper. I take my hat of to fishermen, your right, they do a dangerous job and I have often raised funds for the RNLI to show my appreciation, we sutained ourselves by fishing these waters long before Dounreay reared its ugly head.
I wonder how many people posting on this thread can remember what it was like before the Atomic take- over. Care to enlighten me?
Sorry Gleber2 but I dont go that far back.. but I do know that people wouldn't have had to be afraid to take their children for a day out on the beach.
Fishermen dont leave behind radioactive pollution that will affect not only us but our children and our childrens children... mmmm fish supper.. I do love a good haddie supper. I take my hat of to fishermen, your right, they do a dangerous job and I have often raised funds for the RNLI to show my appreciation, we sutained ourselves by fishing these waters long before Dounreay reared its ugly head.
Fair point about the pollution and I concede we need to find a way to deal with that before building new nuclear plants.
My point was to call the nuclear industry "dangerous" is sensationalist.
As I understand it, workers in the nuclear industry live healthier and longer lives.
How about the folks that have to live near the high voltage cables, pumpin that energy out of Dounreay then? You forgot to answer that part?
People that work in the nuclear industry make more money and have better pensions... hhmmmm... could that have to do with anything? Besides, I know your argument is the only argument anyone has for it being soooo healthy for us... get real, mate. Potentially, nuclear power stations are literally weapons of mass destruction.
Anywho... aye, it's dangerous... ask the fine people of Chernobyl?
Are you somewhat chuffed then that they decided to experiment on the people of Caithness with Dounreay.. as they did with Gruinard Island on the west coast? Should we be proud that they are thinking of dumping more nuclear rubbish on the beautiful unspoilt islands of this country???
Quite frankly, it's annoying that people want to excuse their overconsumption by hoorahing potentially deadly ways of producing energy. How about new ways of tackling energy in a safer & cleaner way for people and planet? And taking responsibility for it's production and efficient usage ourselves? Especially in a low density area?????
How about the folks that have to live near the high voltage cables, pumpin that energy out of Dounreay then? You forgot to answer that part?
People that work in the nuclear industry make more money and have better pensions... hhmmmm... could that have to do with anything? Besides, I know your argument is the only argument anyone has for it being soooo healthy for us... get real, mate. Potentially, nuclear power stations are literally weapons of mass destruction.
Anywho... aye, it's dangerous... ask the fine people of Chernobyl?
Are you somewhat chuffed then that they decided to experiment on the people of Caithness with Dounreay.. as they did with Gruinard Island on the west coast? Should we be proud that they are thinking of dumping more nuclear rubbish on the beautiful unspoilt islands of this country???
Quite frankly, it's annoying that people want to excuse their overconsumption by hoorahing potentially deadly ways of producing energy. How about new ways of tackling energy in a safer & cleaner way for people and planet? And taking responsibility for it's production and efficient usage ourselves? Especially in a low density area?????
Good post and I couldn't agree more.
Sorry Gleber2 but I dont go that far back.. but I do know that people wouldn't have had to be afraid to take their children for a day out on the beach.
I was born in 1944 and remember well the pre-atomic days. Life may not have been economically easy but we managed. The Atom business may have brought comparative plenty to the few but at what cost? Remove the power station completely and it would not make much difference to me. Build another and my descendants will pay. I would hate to see it happen.
Destroy our environment so that people can use their electric toys and labour saving devices more and more. We, I believe, had a much higher life style before electricity and, during the periods I have lived without it, I found a greater peace within my home than I have ever felt with it. We do not yet fully understand electricity and the effect it has on life on Earth. We congratulate the Ancient Sumerians for having invented the Leclanche cell but we do not stop to think why they stopped their experiments. Perhaps they knew more than us!!!!
No I don't want oil or coal alternatives but there are others..
Coal is a distinct possibility. They are working on ways to gassify the coal under the ground and pipe the gas up to a power station. The carbon released can be trapped and piped back under the ground.
The coal is there in huge amounts in the places the electricity is needed and wouldn't even have to be mined.
Coal is a distinct possibility. They are working on ways to gassify the coal under the ground and pipe the gas up to a power station. The carbon released can be trapped and piped back under the ground.
The coal is there in huge amounts in the places the electricity is needed and wouldn't even have to be mined.
Anything rather than Atom power.
I found a greater peace within my home than I have ever felt with it. We do not yet fully understand electricity and the effect it has on life on Earth. We congratulate the Ancient Sumerians for having invented the Leclanche cell but we do not stop to think why they stopped their experiments. Perhaps they knew more than us!!!!
Oh dear, the good old 'good old days' argument - very endearing to the blinkered, but it ain't going to happen. No-one is going to want to do without the stuff they have.
A non-starter, telling people how you managed back in the post-war era -historically interesting, but that's all.
No I don't want oil or coal alternatives but there are others..
Yes, and they are all available to meet demand when exactly??? Wind power - not quite. Hydroelectric -definitely.
How about the folks that have to live near the high voltage cables, pumpin that energy out of Dounreay then? You forgot to answer that part?
Does that mean that if we get rid of Dounreay there will be nobody living near high voltage cables anywhere in Britain?
No high voltage cables, no pylons growing all over the place - wonderful, that's the best news I've heard to date.
I wonder why I keep hearing about so many threats of "Super" Pylons mushrooming all through the Western Highlands and other places?
Or have I been dreaming again?
Does that mean that if we get rid of Dounreay there will be nobody living near high voltage cables anywhere in Britain?
No high voltage cables, no pylons growing all over the place - wonderful, that's the best news I've heard to date.
I wonder why I keep hearing about so many threats of "Super" Pylons mushrooming all through the Western Highlands and other places?
Or have I been dreaming again?
Did I say that? And how come nobody here has mentioned the fact that Scotland can support itself on clean & safe (NOT nuclear) energy alone? How about England gets off our back? Hence why we need the MEGA pylons. We could do with stopping the export of our precious resources. This is the problem... we've got more power than we can shake a stick at! Why you are hearing of more SUPER pylons is because they need the infrastructure to carry the power from the proposed huge wind farm (200+ turbines) on Lewis and other proposed highland windfarms down south.. you know where!
[quote=DW]Oh dear, the good old 'good old days' argument - very endearing to the blinkered, but it ain't going to happen. No-one is going to want to do without the stuff they have.
A non-starter, telling people how you managed back in the post-war era -historically interesting, but that's all.
I decided to do without electricity in the seventies and eighties as an experiment. Therefore not a good old days arguement but a statement of fact. We should be able to learn from the mistakes of the past and ensure a better future for our children rather than destroy now because of our own selfish desires for the toys of the 21st century.Conservation and reduction in consumption is about the only sane answer to the energy problems we are creating. Or do we opt out for the easiest road with no concern about the consequences of our blinkered,selfish desires. I would like our descendents to look back with thanks for our wisdom, not to curse us for our selfish insanity.
Did I say that? And how come nobody here has mentioned the fact that Scotland can support itself on clean & safe (NOT nuclear) energy alone? How about England gets off our back? Hence why we need the MEGA pylons. We could do with stopping the export of our precious resources. This is the problem... we've got more power than we can shake a stick at! Why you are hearing of more SUPER pylons is because they need the infrastructure to carry the power from the proposed huge wind farm (200+ turbines) on Lewis and other proposed highland windfarms down south.. you know where!
I understand the Mega Pylons are going as far as the Central Belt.
Even if you take the narrow view of "It's ours so we keep it" does that mean that all the high voltage cables will be taken down?
Will I be able to drive from Thurso to Perth without seeing pylons with carrying high power cables?
I've said it twice.. I'll say it three times now..... how about personal renewable energy schemes? or community energy schemes? how about new builds being required to employ passive solar design? this is very practical in Scotland. how about a gigantic tax on convenience appliances?? like a microwave that costs £3000? or a £1000 electric toothbrush? by the way, how many lights does one need?
this in time... would & could start to dismantle this unhealthy mass infrastructure? and where it was still needed... they could redirect them away from where we live. Bottom line... if you want to exploit energy then in essence you must be willing to harm your children & others to do so. There's not much of a contest if you ask me?!?
We need to be careful that when we embrace technology we embrace the RIGHT technology.
OIL AND GAS
Over 100,000 jobs in Scotland (6% of workforce) are dependent on the oil and gas industry
In Scotland, over 2000 companies are involved in the oil and gas industry.
Oil was first discovered in UK waters in 1966.
The first full year of production from a UK oil field was 1976.
Oil and gas are now being produced from many fields to the east and north of the UK - and more recently from the Atlantic Margin northwest of Scotland.
In 2002, it was estimated that 264,000 jobs (source DTI) in the UK depend directly or indirectly on the oil and gas industry with 100,000 of these jobs in Scotland – equivalent to 6% of total Scottish employment. Of these about 30,000 people work offshore.
Some oil fields, in particular those to the west of the Shetland Islands, have been discovered relatively recently, and are at an early stage of their productive life.
A record number of 204 offshore fields were in production at the beginning of 1999. 109 of these were producing oil, 79 gas and 16 condensate.
Long term investment in new technology remains a priority – to increase productivity and to find new sources of oil.
Reserves of oil currently stand at around two billion tonnes - as much as has been produced in the last 25 years. Recent and future fields are expected to remain productive at least until 2020.
Many of the world's unexplored oil fields lie under very deep water. Scotland’s expertise in sub-sea technology and recovering oil and gas from deep-water wells will continue to grow in importance and make the country’s technology an increasingly valuable export.
RENEWABLE ENERGY
The development and manufacture of renewable energy technologies in Scotland is in its infancy. This sector has the potential to become a major employment contributor and exporter of the same order as oil and gas is today.
For two decades - beginning in the 1940s - Scotland pioneered the exploitation of large-scale renewable energy in the UK with the construction of over 50 hydro-electric power stations.
Renewable power generation in Scotland stands at nearly 5GW. At the moment, onshore wind is the most widespread and least expensive form of renewable energy.
A growing number of small hydro-electric schemes are being developed.
At 59.1 GW, Scotland’s potential renewable resources are very large. Scotland’s domestic electric energy requirement is approximately 10.5 GW – so there’s a large potential to export sustainable energy.
The combined potential for offshore and onshore wind generation is 36.5 GW. Wave power could produce 14 GW and tidal 7.5 GW.
The total UK installed generating capacity is 79 GW. However, most of this demand is in the south of the country - a lack of energy transmission capacity limits Scotland’s potential to export energy.
Renewable power generation in Scotland stands at nearly 5GW. At the moment, onshore wind is the most widespread and least expensive form of renewable energy.
The existing transmission grid from the north and west of Scotland places a severe limit on exploitation.POWER GENERATION
Scotland’s major power generation companies have a combined turnover of £1.3bn and employ over 7,000 people.
During the 20th century, Scotland generated most of its electricity from coal and nuclear power.
Producing more energy than it needs for its own use, Scotland is a net exporter of electricity.
Scotland’s generating capacity is 12 GW.
Scotland's nuclear power stations account for 2.4 GW.
Coal fired stations (Longannet and Cockenzie), with a capacity of 3.5GW account make up most of the country’s conventional generating capacity.
The other significant power station at Peterhead can produce up to 1.5GW from oil/gas.
The Scottish power generation industry - which encompasses manufacturing, distribution, transmission and consultancy - is well established in a mature domestic market.
I've said it twice.. I'll say it three times now..... how about personal renewable energy schemes? or community energy schemes? how about new builds being required to employ passive solar design? this is very practical in Scotland. how about a gigantic tax on convenience appliances?? like a microwave that costs £3000? or a £1000 electric toothbrush? by the way, how many lights does one need?
this in time... would & could start to dismantle this unhealthy mass infrastructure? and where it was still needed... they could redirect them away from where we live. Bottom line... if you want to exploit energy then in essence you must be willing to harm your children & others to do so. There's not much of a contest if you ask me?!?
We need to be careful that when we embrace technology we embrace the RIGHT technology.
We seem to agree. How do you convince a hedonistic, self preserving, totally selfish, ignorant, uncaring,childish and dangerous human race that has been conditioned by their own media to want, want, want that their whole way of life is more or less ensuring that our children and grandchildren will have a sad reality to live and die in unless we change the cry to less, less, less. Impossible.
We seem to agree. How do you convince a hedonistic, self preserving, totally selfish, ignorant, uncaring,childish and dangerous human race that has been conditioned by their own media to want, want, want that their whole way of life is more or less ensuring that our children and grandchildren will have a sad reality to live and die in unless we change the cry to less, less, less. Impossible.
Which takes us right back to ...................A new Dounreay! - good title for a thread.
In an ideal world everything would be ..............ideal :lol:
How about the folks that have to live near the high voltage cables, pumpin that energy out of Dounreay then? You forgot to answer that part?
People that work in the nuclear industry make more money and have better pensions... hhmmmm... could that have to do with anything? Besides, I know your argument is the only argument anyone has for it being soooo healthy for us... get real, mate. Potentially, nuclear power stations are literally weapons of mass destruction.
Anywho... aye, it's dangerous... ask the fine people of Chernobyl?
High voltage cables will always be needed to transport energy whether its produced by nuclear, coal, gas or wind. If current plans for all the wind turbines in the north are carried out we will need MORE of these.
More money and better pensions in the nuclear industry? NONSENSE! A tradesman, engineer or chemist would almost double his salary by leaving dounreay and going offshore.
As for chernobyl the RMBK reactor design was slated by the international nuclear community long before the accident occured. British/french/japanse and american designs are inherintally safer.
I've said it twice.. I'll say it three times now..... how about personal renewable energy schemes?
We need to be careful that when we embrace technology we embrace the RIGHT technology.
Stop it sjwahwah, now you've got me being agreeable again and that hurts.
There are small companies, some Scottish based, which are now producing wind generators for domestic properties which are no bigger than a sky-dish and require no planning permission - at least so far.
The turbines attach to the side of the house and are said to provide at least a third of the electricity consumption. (That's not taking Caithness wind into account)
Some of the more complicated ones feed any excess power into the Grid when they are providing more than you require for your home.
How many homes would benefit from increased insulation to bring them up to modern spec?
Why are there no encouragements to do just that?
Why are Energy Saving Light Bulbs subject to VAT? Surely any encouragement to use them to save energy would be helpful?
Could it just be that such things do not grab headlines like massive schemes involving large companies do?
Huge Commercial Eyesores certainly grab people's attention.
Perhaps there's no glory in hepling people help themselves rather than creating large money making schemes to fleece the public!
High voltage cables will always be needed to transport energy whether its produced by nuclear, coal, gas or wind. If current plans for all the wind turbines in the north are carried out we will need MORE of these.
I'm not promoting wind farms thanks. I'm suggesting personal & community renewable energy systems and passive solar design. (there's a record skipping here)
More money and better pensions in the nuclear industry? NONSENSE! A tradesman, engineer or chemist would almost double his salary by leaving dounreay and going offshore.
Then why don't they? And, shall we split hairs here?
As for chernobyl the RMBK reactor design was slated by the international nuclear community long before the accident occured. British/french/japanse and american designs are inherintally safer.
The competence of the plant designers is not the only factor in deciding how dangerous a nuclear power plant is. Although, I'm glad for your expert opinion on who designs them best is though. Apparently, at Dounreay they're not the best at keepin' the lids on the rubbish tip are they?
I'm not promoting wind farms thanks. I'm suggesting personal & community renewable energy systems and passive solar design. (there's a record skipping here)
Then why don't they? And, shall we split hairs here?
The competence of the plant designers is not the only factor in deciding how dangerous a nuclear power plant is. Although, I'm glad for your expert opinion on who designs them best is though. Apparently, at Dounreay they're not the best at keepin' the lids on the rubbish tip are they?
I would suggest the reason many wouldn't go offshore to increase their wage is the small matter of spending every second fortnight away from home.
As for Dounreay, the releases over the years are down to the reprocessing work carried out there. It is when fuel is cut up to retrieve the plutonium that fission products can be released.
A commercial reactor plant, which dounreay NEVER was, is not prone to these mistakes.
I don't pretend to be an expert on reactor design, merely I'm able to use the internet for researching facts rather than just ranting.
I don't disagree with your thoughts and those of JAWS on the use of personal generating equipment such as domestic wind turbines. I have actually been looking into this myself.
Where as these should be encouraged I don't see an alternative to the "National Grid" system of power generation and transmission for many years to come. In the mean time we need a secure energy source for Britain and my view is nuclear is the best most economical and most environmentally friendly means of providing the baseload to the national grid.
However back to the main post subject, although I'm sure we'll be building more nuclear plants they won't be at Dounreay and I'd be surprised if there were any north of the central belt.
Whitewater
28-Mar-06, 23:24
There is a community heating system being built in Pulteneytown beside the distillery. I think it will be a great scheme, but commercial greed has raised its head again. The price of the wood-chippings to be used was £10/ton when the scheme was initially mentioned, they were at £40/ton about 2 weeks ago, and construction has just got underway, it will be interesting to see the cost when the price levels out. I can't remember if the idea was to burn rubbish as well, if it was, that would serve two purposes, by reducing the amount chippings required, and also lower the amount of rubbish to be dumped, therefore extending the life of our present landfill sites.
I remember many years ago when I was an apprentice, reading an article in a mechanical journal, on building your own windmill for generation of enough power for your home, so 'sjwahwah' is on the right track and the idea is not new. It will not make a home self sufficient, but coupled up with solar panels, insulation and the building itself being contructed of energy saving, and heat attracting materials will make a home almost independent of the national grid. I know it is only a small amount, but if all dwelling places were constructed in this manner a considerable saving will be made on the power required on the national grid.
I must be getting soft in my old age, but I have to agree with JAWS, and say that individuals are not encouraged in any way to set up their own schemes, or to use energy saving equipment.
I can see where 'Gleber2' is coming from, but I'm afraid none of us will be very keen on giving up any gadgets we have for making life more comfortable and bearable than of our parents and forefathers.
you're right... they don't exactly go out of their way to encourage anyone to be more efficient nor do they suggest less dependence on infrastructure. Shame really.
If you do want to employ renewable energy systems you really have to dig.. but, you will find there are plenty of grants out there and on an up note the council tells me they pretty much never refuse applications for planning for these systems.
http://www.est.org.uk/schri/
for renewable energy grants & advice.
And there are courses popping up all over teaching people how to construct their own wind turbines and solar hot water systems.
But, yea.. why the VAT on energy saving lightbulbs? And all this greed in taking over community projects. Sickening really. But, I suppose it only means we need to take matters into our own hands?
I'm with gleber2 tho.. ditch the convenience items... they actually just make life MORE stressful. I don't see how it is advantageous to teach our children that we need machines to make life easier or convenient. How about making life fulfilling & independent by learning to do things with our minds and hands? what a concept hey?
A new Dounreay? well.. I hope not. I hope not anywhere in Britain. But, we'll probably see one popping up somewhere so, don't throw out the potassium iodate or miso soup just yet! :confused
I reckon there have been more deaths proportionately as a result of the fossil fuel industry and renewable energy industry per kWh than the nuclear industry.
How about the folks that have to live near the high voltage cables,
The mileage of high voltage cables will increase with the incidence of windfarms so then I take it you will be against them...
The mileage of high voltage cables will increase with the incidence of windfarms so then I take it you will be against them...
Helps if you read the posts previous before you post yourself... cause... the record is skipping.
There is a community heating system being built in Pulteneytown beside the distillery. I think it will be a great scheme, but commercial greed has raised its head again. The price of the wood-chippings to be used was £10/ton when the scheme was initially mentioned, they were at £40/ton about 2 weeks ago, and construction has just got underway, it will be interesting to see the cost when the price levels out. I can't remember if the idea was to burn rubbish as well, if it was, that would serve two purposes, by reducing the amount chippings required, and also lower the amount of rubbish to be dumped, therefore extending the life of our present landfill sites.
I remember many years ago when I was an apprentice, reading an article in a mechanical journal, on building your own windmill for generation of enough power for your home, so 'sjwahwah' is on the right track and the idea is not new. It will not make a home self sufficient, but coupled up with solar panels, insulation and the building itself being contructed of energy saving, and heat attracting materials will make a home almost independent of the national grid. I know it is only a small amount, but if all dwelling places were constructed in this manner a considerable saving will be made on the power required on the national grid.
I must be getting soft in my old age, but I have to agree with JAWS, and say that individuals are not encouraged in any way to set up their own schemes, or to use energy saving equipment.
I can see where 'Gleber2' is coming from, but I'm afraid none of us will be very keen on giving up any gadgets we have for making life more comfortable and bearable than of our parents and forefathers.
Burning wood to heat our homes is one of the most shortsightedly insane things we can do. Trees take forever to grow and, at a time when global warming is on the increase due to excess CO2 we need as many trees as we can get to clean the air we breath. Look through the lairs of the onion and the insanity of our voracious appetite for power becomes so obvious. There are many alternatives to wood that are renewable and ecologically sound. Hemp, for example, is one of the fastest growing plants on Earth and is 75% cellulose. It also has a large appetite for CO2 and in the process returns the carbon to the soil which enriches the ground. It is also self fertilising. On the side ,it would produce oil of a very high quality(used extensively in health food due to a perfect balance of essential fatty acids) and protean more nutricious than, for example, peanuts. It will grow anywhere and was, at one time, a very valuable crop in Caithness(Hempriggs). I believe that an experiment was started in Ireland where hemp was used as biomass to fuel generators but I don't know the result of that experiment.
Each community should have its own means of generating power, as it was in the old days, and Scotland could be self sufficient again.
Burning wood to heat our homes is one of the most shortsightedly insane things we can do. Trees take forever to grow and, at a time when global warming is on the increase due to excess CO2 we need as many trees as we can get to clean the air we breath. Look through the lairs of the onion and the insanity of our voracious appetite for power becomes so obvious. There are many alternatives to wood that are renewable and ecologically sound. Hemp, for example, is one of the fastest growing plants on Earth and is 75% cellulose. It also has a large appetite for CO2 and in the process returns the carbon to the soil which enriches the ground. It is also self fertilising. On the side ,it would produce oil of a very high quality(used extensively in health food due to a perfect balance of essential fatty acids) and protean more nutricious than, for example, peanuts. It will grow anywhere and was, at one time, a very valuable crop in Caithness(Hempriggs). I believe that an experiment was started in Ireland where hemp was used as biomass to fuel generators but I don't know the result of that experiment.
Each community should have its own means of generating power, as it was in the old days, and Scotland could be self sufficient again.
Aye, Aye! Hemp is GOOD for you and me and everything around you. One of the most nutritious medicines we can grace our bodies with nevermind it's endless uses for just about everything? The first Ford had panels made out of hemp. The Irish like to experiment with hemp as of late. They have developed some great techniques for building with it.. hempcrete. Excellent. I would like to hear more about the biomass trial. Shall have a look tonite.
Aye, Aye! Hemp is GOOD for you and me and everything around you. One of the most nutritious medicines we can grace our bodies with nevermind it's endless uses for just about everything? The first Ford had panels made out of hemp. The Irish like to experiment with hemp as of late. They have developed some great techniques for building with it.. hempcrete. Excellent. I would like to hear more about the biomass trial. Shall have a look tonite.
Thank he who might or might not exist that somebody out there is aware of THE PLANT. 80% of everything we need to survive from one plant. Hard to believe but unargueably true. Let me know the result of your research re Ireland.
Burning wood to heat our homes is one of the most shortsightedly insane things we can do. Trees take forever to grow and, at a time when global warming is on the increase due to excess CO2 we need as many trees as we can get to clean the air we breath. Look through the lairs of the onion and the insanity of our voracious appetite for power becomes so obvious. There are many alternatives to wood that are renewable and ecologically sound. Hemp, for example, is one of the fastest growing plants on Earth and is 75% cellulose. It also has a large appetite for CO2 and in the process returns the carbon to the soil which enriches the ground. It is also self fertilising. On the side ,it would produce oil of a very high quality(used extensively in health food due to a perfect balance of essential fatty acids) and protean more nutricious than, for example, peanuts. It will grow anywhere and was, at one time, a very valuable crop in Caithness(Hempriggs). I believe that an experiment was started in Ireland where hemp was used as biomass to fuel generators but I don't know the result of that experiment.
Each community should have its own means of generating power, as it was in the old days, and Scotland could be self sufficient again.
Don't know much about the hemp but am delighted to hear someone against the production of power by burning carbon into the atmosphere!
it's actually carbon neutral when used as fuel... that's how great hemp really is!
where exactly in that paragraph does gleber2 say he's against power production?
it's actually carbon neutral when used as fuel... that's how great hemp really is!
where exactly in that paragraph does gleber2 say he's against power production?
He doesn't.
He doesn't.
I am not against power production per se, That would be crazy. I am totally against the increase in production so that our varacious appetite for electric toys can be satisfied at the expense of our children's future. We can play when our childrens' children can sit in the dark or perhaps glow in the dark if Atom power is the only way.
Helps if you read the posts previous before you post yourself...
I did
the record is skipping.
As an old campaigner on these topics, i can see you have learnt something...:Razz
I reckon there have been more deaths proportionately as a result of the fossil fuel industry and renewable energy industry per kWh than the nuclear industry.
You reckon? well.. let's go on that then... you reckon so.
But, in the meantime, I hope products, byproducts or technology of the renewable energy industry don't cause wars over who's going to be able to use this energy.. I also hope they don't start producing wind weaponry... that would be really dangerous ey? I also hope that this ugly wind and water pollution does not spoil the beauty or safety of this country any longer!! And my if any of that carcinogenic wind gets out... we're all doomed.
The mileage of high voltage cables will increase with the incidence of windfarms so then I take it you will be against them...
I am against wind farms... unless of course they're community wind farms.
Anyways.... the infrastructure in Caithness cannot support many more wind farms... hence the need for mega-pylons to support a higher capacity? hhmmm.. word around the campfire is they've got some strong opposition from two councils concerning this very issue...
...again...
mostlyharmless
29-Mar-06, 21:46
I hope the Dounreay site is not wasted altogether and it becomes a site to look into different types of renewable energy.So much time and life went into its making and running a legacy of continued study into energy alternatives would be good.
'Community windfarms, renewable energy,responsibility for supplying and saving as much of ones energy as possible.
Tax on high energy using equipment in the home';
Just because this sounds like an pefect ideal world why do we have to reject it as unworkable. Because we are all convenience seeking,uncaring,and ignorant. I don't think so.
Our generation has a chance to make a real difference in the history of our civilisation.
It will be inconvenient, it will be difficult,and maybe affording some of the changes may be beyond us at first.
If people really don't trust the governments of this country,the middle east,russia etc to supply us with energy then DO what you can do for yourself now.
You reckon? well.. let's go on that then... you reckon so.
But, in the meantime, I hope products, byproducts or technology of the renewable energy industry don't cause wars over who's going to be able to use this energy.. I also hope they don't start producing wind weaponry... that would be really dangerous ey? I also hope that this ugly wind and water pollution does not spoil the beauty or safety of this country any longer!! And my if any of that carcinogenic wind gets out... we're all doomed.
Talk now is of using renewable energy to provide hydrogen which will provide the energy source for the next generation of cars, buses, central heating.....military tanks. The rationale that I have is that humans will use whatever energy source to live how they want to live....and make others die with it. The evil is in the thoughts of humans to make others die, not the means to do it. You have isolated an energy source ie nuclear as a source of evil, I say no it isn't, I say the evil is in the minds that wield the power, whether it be renewable, fossil or nuclear.
kwbrown111
29-Mar-06, 23:40
What noboby seems to take into account really is these new technologies are far away in development. consider please the amount of people dying through heat poverty against deaths in the nuclear industry and honestly tell me they would rather have the heat povery. please anti nuclear get REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!. As far as pylons ruining the landscape you don't need more if you have 1 or 2 extra nuclear plants in Scotland, certainly many many less than the unsightly amount of windmills that are needed to generate enough electricity to Scotland. End of rant
kwbrown111
29-Mar-06, 23:44
PS i would love to meet Lorraine Mann spouting anti nuclear on the street.
Talk now is of using renewable energy to provide hydrogen which will provide the energy source for the next generation of cars, buses, central heating.....military tanks. The rationale that I have is that humans will use whatever energy source to live how they want to live....and make others die with it. The evil is in the thoughts of humans to make others die, not the means to do it. You have isolated an energy source ie nuclear as a source of evil, I say no it isn't, I say the evil is in the minds that wield the power, whether it be renewable, fossil or nuclear.
The atmospheric polution and the radioactive polution is not a power that can be wielded, only created, and it is the creation that must be curbed or is it already too late? We fill the atmosphere with greenhouse gas from motor cars but is a requirement of the continued economic survival of our reality that we continue to make more and more motor cars which use up more and more fossil fuels which adds more and more CO and CO2 to the air we breathe which heats up the planet more and more until the oil runs out or the Earth becomes uninhabitable. I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, the human race is not only evil, Rheghead, it is downright crazy[evil] .
The atmospheric polution and the radioactive polution is not a power that can be wielded, only created, and it is the creation that must be curbed or is it already too late?
Of all the radiation that we receive from the environment, 0.3% is attributed to anthropological nuclear sources. The rest is completely natural or from anthropological non-nuclear sources. Should we be worrying? We are far more likely to get cancer from eating over cooked toast...
Tugmistress
30-Mar-06, 11:53
Maybe this could be the future, taken from here (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2006/03/29140117)
Tidal energy demonstrator to be built
29/03/2006
An investment of £650,000 from the Executive has ensured that a hi-tech tidal underwater turbine demonstrator will be built at the European Marine Energy Centre (EMEC) in Orkney.
The £8 million 'Neptune' project, developed by Scottish and Southern Energy's wholly-owned subsidiary Renewable Technology Ventures Ltd, is supported by the ERxecutive, the Department of Trade and Industry, Highlands and Islands Enterprise.
Deputy First Minister Nicol Stephen said:
"Scotland can be a marine energy powerhouse. Innovation is vital and I am delighted to announce this positive news for energy generation from our costal waters - the first tidal project of its kind in Scotland
"The Executive has helped establish the European Marine Energy Centre in Orkney to help develop the sort of innovative and exciting projects like the one announced today.
"The Neptune project is a massively important development for the growing Scottish marine renewables sector.
"I am particularly encouraged by the company's estimate that Neptune has the potential to be commercially viable at a 'farm scale' of around 50 turbines. This would provide an impressive output of over 100MW of electricity, subject to a successful outcome from the demonstration project.
"This demonstrates that the Scottish marine energy sector can make a real contribution towards meeting and exceeding our renewables targets."
It is hoped that Neptune will be in the water at EMEC by the end of 2007, with testing throughout 2008.
The £650,000 Executive funding will cover the site preparation costs at the European Marine Energy Centre (EMEC) which was initially established with £3 million of Executive funding.
The DTI is to give the project £2 million in funding under its Technology Programme.
The Executive has set a target of having 18 per cent of electricity generated in Scotland coming from renewable resources by 2010, rising to 40 per cent by 2020.
Of all the radiation that we receive from the environment, 0.3% is attributed to anthropological nuclear sources. The rest is completely natural or from anthropological non-nuclear sources. Should we be worrying? We are far more likely to get cancer from eating over cooked toast...
Am I a fool or fanatic, or a wiser man? I have no certainties, only doubts and I would rather we were safe than sorry.
Am I a fool or fanatic, or a wiser man? I have no certainties, only doubts and I would rather we were safe than sorry.
There is nothing safe about facing a dire energy crisis, air pollution, global warming, shadow flicker and ice throw.;)
Am I a fool or fanatic, or a wiser man? .
Gleber2, that question is difficult to answer, I am no wise enough, but ask Gleeber he will be sure to have the correct answer[disgust]
peter macdonald
30-Mar-06, 21:49
Tugmistress thanks or posting this This form of technology has been around for a while ..I beleive the French have been harnessing tidal power in normandy for a couple of decades I remember some experiments done by the tidal research boffins from birkenhead in the early 80s on the the effects of the pentland firth tides as they passed over the old telegraph cable between Orkney and caithness to see what current was induced It was always a bit strange to me why there were no follow up as the guys seemed pretty excited at the time
However I suppose at the time North sea oil and gas were hitting the big time and the governments energy policy was tuned towards that and getting rid of the UK miners ...re Tidal energy...... seems a brilliant idea It will save us reopening Braehour when the oil runs out
Gleber2, that question is difficult to answer, I am no wise enough, but ask Gleeber he will be sure to have the correct answer[disgust]
Saw him last night and he wis too seek till say much o' anything.
Rheghead, say something I can really argue about.:Razz You're right, I'm right,everybody is right but only time will verify the facts.
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