What would you have done in this situation

[christina]

Well not to say Wick was a bit of an eye opener :eek: last night.

I was on my way back coming across the somerfield car park with my two sons, when I saw a scuffle going on I though they were just play fighting. Until I got closer there were about 10 kids aged about 15 watching this girl getting battered by another girl. This was really horrible to watch the poor lassie was shouting help when the bigger girl which was about 3 times the size of the lassie, was slamming her head into a trollie.

I was a bit wary of getting involved as I had my 11 year old son with me and my four month old in his sling on me. So just went into safeways and asked to girls what are you going to do this is not on, they said the called the police.

At this point the lassie came into somerfield poor girl really felt for her:~( there was blood coming from her mouth.
I just cant beleive people were walking past ignoring the situation the police came. And later on I saw the bigger girl get marched along by a policewoman. She was shouting to her mates just tell my mum I have been lifted as like it was just normal conversation.


Then to top it off coming back across the carpark there were about 10 underagers drinking from there bottles. And one girl was being sick with her mate holding her hair back. :roll:

[KCI]

To be honest, there wasn't much you could do in that situation, because you had your kids with you.
I would have done the same if I had my kids with me, especially my youngest who is 5 months.

I think we saw the poor girl later on - if it was the same girl, she was taken to hospital.

Unfortunately, there are always a few people who ruin family events for others. :(

[ShelleyCowie]

Its a hard situation because you had your children. I dont like seeing people getting hurt like that, but not knowing the full story of the fight is hard to comment too, not knowing who started the fight etc etc.

But for people to walk past is a bit sad, especially if someone is in danger. I would say you done the right thing though and stayed away and ensured someone else was dealing with it. ;)

[EDDIE]

There is nothing really u could have done about it apart from report it if u got involved u would have ended up getting a load of abuse or ganged up on and ure kids might be there next target i think its shocking how kids are allowed to hang about in groups in supermarkets and for me its up to the supermarket to stop it they responsible for the security and safety of customers on there ground they should have stopped it and were did the kids get the alcohol from.
There should be a anti social law stopping kids in large groups hanging out together and it would stop a lot of trouble

[Gene Hunt]

There is nothing really u could have done about it apart from report it if u got involved u would have ended up getting a load of abuse or ganged up on and ure kids might be there next target i think its shocking how kids are allowed to hang about in groups in supermarkets and for me its up to the supermarket to stop it they responsible for the security and safety of customers on there ground they should have stopped it and were did the kids get the alcohol from.
There should be a anti social law stopping kids in large groups hanging out together and it would stop a lot of trouble

Where were the big strong blokes ??, surely one of them could have gone in and just plucked the girl out ??

We seem to have a "I cant get involved" paranoia in this country now and a real fear of any group of teenagers. Its a load of rubbish, a couple of weeks back I went out to a group of teenagers who were sitting on my wall, one was leaning on the bonnet of my car which was in the driveway. After asking them nicely to move on I got a mouthful of abuse from the lad leaning on my bonnet. He was physically thrown off my property by me, I thought he was going to cry. The vast majority of teenagers are no worse than we were as kids, to ban them hanging about in groups is an over-reaction to situation that should have been sorted out by the Police or an adult nearby. That girl should not have been left to take a kicking.

[Kevin Milkins]

What I would have done in this situation


Being a large bloke I would have probably intervened, but I can understand why you chose not to, (and very wise to).

Under age drinking is not a new problem and I did it myself as a youngster, but there does seem to be a much more brazen approach being taken by the young people of today and it saddens me to see large groups of what appear to be very young people in public consuming alcohol as if they have a (you can’t touch me attitude) about them.:(

Having said I would have intervened, it makes me wonder how the law would have viewed it if I had used force to stop a couple of girls fighting.:eek:

[Alice in Blunderland]

As a mother of teenage girls I would have been right in there to pull them apart and would hope that, should someone ever be seen laying four bells into one of my girls another person would do the same thing for them. :)

No matter how it started or by whom its bang out of order to have brawling in the street end off.

There are always the few who spoil it for others and banning groups gathering is not the answer.

I hope the poor girl has not been hurt too badly, however I am sure that this will not be a one off incident. :(

[tonkatojo]

Where were the big strong blokes ??, surely one of them could have gone in and just plucked the girl out ??

We seem to have a "I cant get involved" paranoia in this country now and a real fear of any group of teenagers. Its a load of rubbish, a couple of weeks back I went out to a group of teenagers who were sitting on my wall, one was leaning on the bonnet of my car which was in the driveway. After asking them nicely to move on I got a mouthful of abuse from the lad leaning on my bonnet. He was physically thrown off my property by me, I thought he was going to cry. The vast majority of teenagers are no worse than we were as kids, to ban them hanging about in groups is an over-reaction to situation that should have been sorted out by the Police or an adult nearby. That girl should not have been left to take a kicking.

You are right as usual, but the police take a different view, you are lucky you were not prosecuted for touching the youth. the common sense approach doesn't work in this country, and by christ the kids know it. I think you have the right idea, get out of this mire we call a country, but to where is the question, sometimes its better the devil you know. you are lucky you have age on your side for what you want to do, old duffers like me that's another story.

[tonkatojo]

What I would have done in this situation


Being a large bloke I would have probably intervened, but I can understand why you chose not to, (and very wise to).

Under age drinking is not a new problem and I did it myself as a youngster, but there does seem to be a much more brazen approach being taken by the young people of today and it saddens me to see large groups of what appear to be very young people in public consuming alcohol as if they have a (you can’t touch me attitude) about them.:(

Having said I would have intervened, it makes me wonder how the law would have viewed it if I had used force to stop a couple of girls fighting.:eek:

Interesting question KEVIN but the answer is depressing. the law would come down on you for touching them as soon as they made a complaint, and the kids know it all too well, others have done what you say and have rued it, Even what GENE done to protect his property is not condoned in our society. Me thinks a dark night is the answer and keep it to your self.

[Venture]

You were lucky Gene. Unfortunately in situations like the one by the original poster the tables can be turned on the person who trys to help or intervenes. I know of a friend who broke up a fight between boys and he ended up being arrested and accused of assault by the boy who had originally started the fight. All because he "laid a hand on him" when forcing them apart. This man was taken from his place of work and put in a cell and then questioned for 2 hours just for trying to help. It also took the police three weeks before they told him that he was not going to be charged with assault. The worry and the stress he went through was unbelieveable. He has vowed to never again get involved in a situation like this. The police don't like it when a member of the public intervenes they maintain that you should immediately call them. Now human nature makes you want to help in these situations but it's not always the best idea.:(

[tonkatojo]

You were lucky Gene. Unfortunately in situations like the one by the original poster the tables can be turned on the person who trys to help or intervenes. I know of a friend who broke up a fight between boys and he ended up being arrested and accused of assault by the boy who had originally started the fight. All because he "laid a hand on him" when forcing them apart. This man was taken from his place of work and put in a cell and then questioned for 2 hours just for trying to help. It also took the police three weeks before they told him that he was not going to be charged with assault. The worry and the stress he went through was unbelieveable. He has vowed to never again get involved in a situation like this. The police don't like it when a member of the public intervenes they maintain that you should immediately call them. Now human nature makes you want to help in these situations but it's not always the best idea.:(

Just proves the point doesn't it, the law is a joke, phone the police and hope they come, probably the next day and give you a crime number. Common sense isn't in the police manual, just robotic instructions without leeway. The court's ain't much better.

[compo]

well you did the right thing i think. from personal exsperiance of trying to help i was on both ocasions allmost chrged by the police myself. so sometimes its not so good to be concerned unfortunatly its the way things are.

[Connor.]

The thing is though, what happens if these young ones were violently drunk?

If you phone the police and wait for them to come, that could me the difference between that girl being alive or dead. If they were under the influence of alcohol then it is more likely someone could end up as a fatality.

[teenybash]

What an awful situation to witness among youngsters....Sorry to say but, the police are simply not doing their jobs. There should be adequate officers, on foot, during any gathering where it is known there will be under age drinking and the risk of fighting and brawling............

[EDDIE]

Where were the big strong blokes ??, surely one of them could have gone in and just plucked the girl out ??

We seem to have a "I cant get involved" paranoia in this country now and a real fear of any group of teenagers. Its a load of rubbish, a couple of weeks back I went out to a group of teenagers who were sitting on my wall, one was leaning on the bonnet of my car which was in the driveway. After asking them nicely to move on I got a mouthful of abuse from the lad leaning on my bonnet. He was physically thrown off my property by me, I thought he was going to cry. The vast majority of teenagers are no worse than we were as kids, to ban them hanging about in groups is an over-reaction to situation that should have been sorted out by the Police or an adult nearby. That girl should not have been left to take a kicking.

A ban on having a large group of kids hang out together is not an over reaction its a good idea what about older people or even some people feel intimadeted walking past a large group of kids and the bigger the group the kids hang out in its more likely there going to start carrying on daring one another?
As for the next time you try getting involved what happend if your not so lucky the next time and u get assaulted or the kid runs home and tells his parents u have assaulted him and they go to the police involved.
For me in the original post that supermarket was responsible for the safety of people on there premises or carpark and they should have stopped it just the same as if someone was assulted in the store they are responsible for the safety of there customer
What does everyone think of that is the store partly responsible for this going out of control?

[pat]

Wish more people would report such things and maybe the courts will get tougher with the perpetrators, making them more wary of starting this behaviour in the first place.

As A-I-B says no one should be brawling in the street - if you want to brawl there are sports centres where you can take out your agression in different ways than slogging each other physically.

Parents - how did you teach your children to deal with aggression? Hopefully not like this episode.

Eddie - perhaps you do not realise - it is not a supermarket owned carpark - it is owned by the people of Wick so everyone is responsible for their own behaviour in this area.

It does not matter where this sort of thing happens it should not be tolerated - anywhere.

[Kevin Milkins]

[quote=EDDIE;577980]
For me in the original post that supermarket was responsible for the safety of people on there premises or carpark and they should have stopped it just the same as if someone was assulted in the store they are responsible for the safety of there customer
quote]

EDDIE,
You are hard pushed to get someone to come and opperate a till at Somerfield because of being under staffed let alone deal with fights on a public car park, and which member of staff would you deligate that job to?:eek:

[redeyedtreefrog]

There should be a anti social law stopping kids in large groups hanging out together and it would stop a lot of trouble


No there shouldn't, that's just discrimination. What about the large groups of kids that dont really bother anyone?

[Gene Hunt]

A ban on having a large group of kids hang out together is not an over reaction its a good idea what about older people or even some people feel intimadeted walking past a large group of kids and the bigger the group the kids hang out in its more likely there going to start carrying on daring one another?
As for the next time you try getting involved what happend if your not so lucky the next time and u get assaulted or the kid runs home and tells his parents u have assaulted him and they go to the police involved.
For me in the original post that supermarket was responsible for the safety of people on there premises or carpark and they should have stopped it just the same as if someone was assulted in the store they are responsible for the safety of there customer
What does everyone think of that is the store partly responsible for this going out of control?

So what your saying is that because "some people" are scared of large groups of kids we just should just ban ALL kids because they make you feel nervous ??, not all kids are of the ilk of the type that sat on my bonnet or beat a girl till she bled in a car park. If people want to go round this world scared go right ahead. If people want to let certain kids intimidate them then go right ahead but I wont. Its people like that who walk around frightened ,scared and making out that it is someones elses responsibility to sort things out that allow those who enjoy indimdating others to get away with it.

I couldnt give a toss if that lad ran home and told his Dad or the Police, I had three witnesses and he had two. I win. And I knew that when I opened my front door. He shouldnt have been there, he had the choice to leave, he chose to be abusive, he got gripped and was given an attitude adjustment. Strangely enough he hasnt been back and the one time I did see him since he got out of my way sharpish. Interesting.

If that had been my daughter in that car park I would have expected someone to step in. I would have, all it would have taken is to get in the middle, shelter the girl and get her out of there. If you take a few hits along the way so what ??

[igglepiggle]

i think wick is getting a bad place to say, just with certain people who think they run the roost!! there was another scuffle at the sideshows and she was taken off in the ambulance. The police were involved in that one, but if anything will be done is another thing, they seem to run rings around the police. i agree with christina, when you have your kids with you there is not much you can do. people should have respect for other people when there is a gala etc on as there is always younger kids at it, and that is something that they shouldnt be seeing.

[tonkatojo]

So what your saying is that because "some people" are scared of large groups of kids we just should just ban ALL kids because they make you feel nervous ??, not all kids are of the ilk of the type that sat on my bonnet or beat a girl till she bled in a car park. If people want to go round this world scared go right ahead. If people want to let certain kids intimidate them then go right ahead but I wont. Its people like that who walk around frightened ,scared and making out that it is someones elses responsibility to sort things out that allow those who enjoy indimdating others to get away with it.

I couldnt give a toss if that lad ran home and told his Dad or the Police, I had three witnesses and he had two. I win. And I knew that when I opened my front door. He shouldnt have been there, he had the choice to leave, he chose to be abusive, he got gripped and was given an attitude adjustment. Strangely enough he hasnt been back and the one time I did see him since he got out of my way sharpish. Interesting.

If that had been my daughter in that car park I would have expected someone to step in. I would have, all it would have taken is to get in the middle, shelter the girl and get her out of there. If you take a few hits along the way so what ??

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/07/27/my-stabbing-horror-dad-set-upon-by-yobs-faces-attempted-murder-charge-115875-21550187/

This is the exact/similar situation GENE some win some lose, but I fully agree I would do the same as you, and bide my time on release for the dark nights coming on.

[Gene Hunt]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/07/27/my-stabbing-horror-dad-set-upon-by-yobs-faces-attempted-murder-charge-115875-21550187/

This is the exact/similar situation GENE some win some lose, but I fully agree I would do the same as you, and bide my time on release for the dark nights coming on.

I'm not daft and I took no pleasure from physically removing the lad. He had every opportunity to move after being asked nicely, he was parked on the bonnet of my fourth child !!, I knew I had more witnesses than him and so I went out, if it was three on one I would not have. That would have meant I had no witness and was open to all sorts of accusations. I would just have chosen to water that part of my garden with a hose !!, I play in a Pool league with a local Policeman, I spoke to him last night and asked him about a few things. He said people are misinformed by the media, a lot of assumptions are made about the Police, he says that Officers tend to see things for what they really are due to the experience of dealing with it day to day. He said that people will get backing a lot more than they think and that in the case described by the OP he would not have questioned the motives of anyone who went to rescue that girl IF they had used the "minimum force required" ONLY to retreive her from that situation, that is the important thing. If a kid or two got a bloody nose when you bumped into him/her while retrieving the girl then so be it. If you put three of the attackers in hospital and left a swathe of injuries behind you doing it then obviously that's different.

I personally would rather have a conviction and have a person safe than no conviction and the knowledge my inaction led to the injury/disfigurement/death of another person.

[squidge]

Quite often the best way to deal with a situation like the girl in the carpark is to have a BIG voice. A Very loud "What on earth is going on here" or "What do you think you are doing?" You have to be authoritative (sp?) though. I am 5'3 and although a wee fat lady I have a very loud voice ( keeping three large boys in order as developed it to a high degree) If you take charge then most times you find you will be able to defuse most situations without lifting a finger. Where there is a fight going on I have foudn that the kids watching are too scared to walk off and a big voice and a loud "in charge" comment allows many of them to have an excuse to walk away which they do fairly rapidly. As a woman I find most boys ..and men.. back off. In the work that i did i had many an occasion to confront an angry desperate man and I never got clattered at all.

I dont get the fear of groups of teenagers I am afraid. If i have to walk past them i usually throw out hi lads, or hi girls and find that i usually get a hello back. Mostly they are just hanging out and not up to any mischief at all. If they are they soon know you have clocked them and tend to shuffle and suddenly develop an interest in their feet. :roll: They are just kids after all.