Spiritualist evening of clairvoyance [Archive]

Fran

22-Jul-09, 01:32

Alan16

22-Jul-09, 01:34

I don't believe that these people have any actual ability, and I wanted to make this clear so I don't give you the wrong impression. Can you explain to me what these people do at one of these events?

Fran

22-Jul-09, 01:56

I beleive these people have a power, which they were probably born with and can communicate with people who have passed away. this is very evident at their meetings when they can give messages to people they have never met and know nothing about, from their dead departed loved ones. they give messages from the dead spirits that only people in the audience could know. i have now been to a few of these meetings and it really does amaze me. i took with me a woman who did not beleive in anything like this and she got a message which schocked her as she couldnt understand how the medium could know so much about her. This woman wasnt even from Caithness.
Why dont you go along and see for yourself, surely the best explanation would be to see it for yourself.
Apart from anything else, it does give comfort to a lot of people who have lost their loved ones.

Alan16

22-Jul-09, 02:10

Although I can understand why the thought of these people having a power would be comforting to you, I can't believe it because it doesn't hold up to scientific testing. It is simply the spiritualist cold reading. I am tempted to go, but I would find it hard to stop myself tricking them. I just have no respect for these people who mess with peoples heads pretending that they are actually able to talk to an inanimate object.

Fran

22-Jul-09, 03:04

Metalattakk

22-Jul-09, 03:19

They don't just use cold reading, they combine it with hot reading, Barnum statements and basic preparation, along with many more forms of skullduggery.

You'll be well known to them by now Fran, seeing as you go to every one of these things. It's like taking sweeties off a bairn for them.

Boozeburglar

22-Jul-09, 03:24

I personally don't know why the promotion of these events is allowed here.

It is not for charity.

Sooner the legislation comes into force to sort these people out the better.

Fran

22-Jul-09, 03:33

.

You'll be well known to them by now Fran, seeing as you go to every one of these things. It's like taking sweeties off a bairn for them.[/quote]

I dont go to all of them, only been to 3 in the past 2 years,

Alan16

22-Jul-09, 03:45

You mention cold reading. i have read about this. I got a message at a meeting, i did not nod my head or give any signals whatsoever, on purpose, so how could the medium know so much about me and give me messages from a dead person which I would be the only one to know about.?

These signs wouldn't be as simple as you saying: "Oh that could be me!" I have no doubt that these people are highly skilled at reading body language and your responses that you wouldn't even know you were making. What they are doing is playing the percentages. They start general and start narrowing it down by guessing. For example: "Does anyone know a John?" John is probably one of the most common names. The chances are someone in the room has lost a relation called John. It is pure bs.

Metalattakk

22-Jul-09, 03:57

I do apologise in that case, Fran.

Even so, you'll certainly be targeted as an 'easy mark' by them in the future. It's one of the skills they have learned - to recognise former successes.

These people are very skilled, very talented and very clever. They use shady techniques that would (and do) utterly stun the wide-eyed common man, much like any accomplished magician.

However, they are not psychic. They are no more than purveyors of lies, taking good, hard-earned money from the type of people who are grieving and at their very weakest, most vulnerable point. Their behaviour is absolutely macabre, ghoulish, predatory and downright evil.

But having said that, I realise I cannot change your mind about this, Fran. I wish I could, but alas it appears impossible. Much like the alcoholic, I suspect the sufferer needs to want to be cured before progress can be made.

The Pepsi Challenge

22-Jul-09, 04:41

"When the money keeps rolling in, you don't ask questions" - Evita

katarina

22-Jul-09, 08:26

I personally don't know why the promotion of these events is allowed here.

It is not for charity.

Sooner the legislation comes into force to sort these people out the better.

ever heard of freedom of choice?

katarina

22-Jul-09, 08:39

A lot of you have sent me pm's asking when Roz and friends will be doing another evening of spiritualist clairvoyance in wick,
There are 4 mediums coming to francis Street Club, wick on friday 14th august 7.30-9.45pm
On the following day, 10 till 4 , there will be a day of mini readings £5 and various types of healing and a raffle.
There will be an evening the same at scrabster Hall on Saturday 15th august,
Thier website is www.spanglefish.com/caithnessspiritualcentre (http://www.spanglefish.com/caithnessspiritualcentre)

This will be a great evening and day as many of you know and is well worth attending. More details from the website or on the "Whats on in caithness "on the org.
Make a note of these dates, dont miss it, it is really amazing.

I went to one. I can't say i was comfortable with the prayer bit at the beginning - don't know why. I might come on saturday. For MA's benifit, I guess the 'hot' reading theory would be out the window as the psychics would have no idea who would be coming along. As for the cold reading, I am very aware of 'giving off signals' and don't believe that I can be 'cold read'. I am also very aware of other 'tricks'. In spite of that, three psycics I have been to have given me very precise info (with none of the said 'tricks') that only I could know. So I will be very interested in how good these guys are. Yes, I think I'll come along.

Alan16

22-Jul-09, 11:54

ever heard of freedom of choice?

Ever heard of fraud?

3of8

22-Jul-09, 13:24

I don't believe that these people have any actual ability, and I wanted to make this clear so I don't give you the wrong impression. Can you explain to me what these people do at one of these events?

Although I can understand why the thought of these people having a power would be comforting to you, I can't believe it because it doesn't hold up to scientific testing. It is simply the spiritualist cold reading. I am tempted to go, but I would find it hard to stop myself tricking them. I just have no respect for these people who mess with peoples heads pretending that they are actually able to talk to an inanimate object.

These signs wouldn't be as simple as you saying: "Oh that could be me!" I have no doubt that these people are highly skilled at reading body language and your responses that you wouldn't even know you were making. What they are doing is playing the percentages. They start general and start narrowing it down by guessing. For example: "Does anyone know a John?" John is probably one of the most common names. The chances are someone in the room has lost a relation called John. It is pure bs.

Ever heard of fraud?

Hmmm. You started by asking Fran what happens at one of these events, then go on to tell what actually happens, in your opinion. Your own scientific evidence to prove that this happens has astounded me, considering you ain't never been to one. Maybe you are the fraudster?

Perhaps, Alan16, what you should do is look back at other threads on this same subject as Fran is particularly keen on announcing the upcoming events. As usual there will be derogatory comments and supportive comments and there will the same posters with the same arguments and theories.

I'm sure that there are many who will agree with me (what say you Metalattakk; Boozeburglar; Katarina; Pepsi? [Apologies if you don't agree]) that this dead horse has been well and truly flogged. I'm sure we don't need yet another pointless slanging match, so give it a rest. Your comments have been duly noted.

Metalattakk

22-Jul-09, 13:43

I'm sure that there are many who will agree with me (what say you Metalattakk; Boozeburglar; Katarina; Pepsi? [Apologies if you don't agree]) that this dead horse has been well and truly flogged.

I can agree with that, this has all been done to death, and recently too. So I for one am more than happy to see the end of these type of threads.
.
.
.
.
However, if people are still intent on peddling the activities of charlatans and outright liars through these messageboards, then I will be here again and again and again to denounce them, as is my right.

Alan16

22-Jul-09, 14:08

Hmmm. You started by asking Fran what happens at one of these events, then go on to tell what actually happens, in your opinion.

Well I asked what happened because I wanted to make sure it was the sort of event I thought it was. And I didn't tell her what I thought actually happened - I told her my what I thought these people actually did, that is not the same as what you said.

Your own scientific evidence to prove that this happens has astounded me, considering you ain't never been to one. Maybe you are the fraudster?

I'm sorry, but that is a fairly idiotic reply. I have never done any scientific testing on gravity, yet I am fairly sure it actually works. The same for all of Newton's Laws. I mean come on, think before you speak. Also, I never said I had done the testing.

Perhaps, Alan16, what you should do is look back at other threads on this same subject as Fran is particularly keen on announcing the upcoming events. As usual there will be derogatory comments and supportive comments and there will the same posters with the same arguments and theories.

I'm not sure if you are trying to suggest my comments were derogatory, but I do not consider them derogatory. I was presenting an opposing view and I tried to be civil whilst doing so.

I'm sure that there are many who will agree with me (what say you Metalattakk; Boozeburglar; Katarina; Pepsi? [Apologies if you don't agree]) that this dead horse has been well and truly flogged. I'm sure we don't need yet another pointless slanging match, so give it a rest.

So this debate has been had many times before and there has probably been no conclusion made then. That isn't a reason for not having another debate.

Your comments have been duly noted.

Patronising comments will only get people more argumentative, so why don't you try and give it a rest.

3of8

22-Jul-09, 15:37

Originally Posted by Alan16
I don't believe that these people have any actual ability, and I wanted to make this clear so I don't give you the wrong impression. Can you explain to me what these people do at one of these events?

Although I can understand why the thought of these people having a power would be comforting to you, I can't believe it because it doesn't hold up to scientific testing. It is simply the spiritualist cold reading. I am tempted to go, but I would find it hard to stop myself tricking them. I just have no respect for these people who mess with peoples heads pretending that they are actually able to talk to an inanimate object.

These signs wouldn't be as simple as you saying: "Oh that could be me!" I have no doubt that these people are highly skilled at reading body language and your responses that you wouldn't even know you were making. What they are doing is playing the percentages. They start general and start narrowing it down by guessing. For example: "Does anyone know a John?" John is probably one of the most common names. The chances are someone in the room has lost a relation called John. It is pure bs.

Ever heard of fraud?

Well I asked what happened because I wanted to make sure it was the sort of event I thought it was.
So why didn't you say so?

I didn't tell her what I thought actually happened - I told her my what I thought these people actually did, that is not the same as what you said.
Huh?

Well now, in the comments you originally made, in italics above, you said sod all about what you think. You stated facts; i.e. "It is simply the spiritualist cold reading."

That's not a thought. That a fact. If it's your opinion, or if it's something that you think may happen, then why didn't you say so?

"I have no doubt that these people are highly skilled at reading body language..." Another statement of fact.

"What they are doing is playing the percentages." Another.

"They start general and start narrowing it down by guessing." Yawn....

I'm sorry, but that is a fairly idiotic reply. I have never done any scientific testing on gravity, yet I am fairly sure it actually works. The same for all of Newton's Laws. I mean come on, think before you speak. Also, I never said I had done the testing.
See what I mean about derogatory remarks? We've only exchanged a couple of posts and already they've started! :eek:

You hadn't said who had done the testing. If you know, quote them. Enlighten those of us who need to see the scientific evidence that you say exists. Not the usual stuff about cold readers etc.

I'm not sure if you are trying to suggest my comments were derogatory, but I do not consider them derogatory. I was presenting an opposing view and I tried to be civil whilst doing so.

This from you, up there in italics... "It is pure bs." Are you trying to tell me that it's not derogatory?

An opposing view? Of what? A spiritualist talking to an inanimate object? What inanimate object? They're supposed to be speaking to spirit. Hardly inanimate. A stuffed cat is inanimate!

So this debate has been had many times before and there has probably been no conclusion made then. That isn't a reason for not having another debate. Patronising comments will only get people more argumentative, so why don't you try and give it a rest.
Patronising? By saying that your comments have been duly noted? It's a way of suggesting that you take time out to read other threads (You will probably find that most agree to disagree.) and see what has been said. Then, if you have anything more enlightening to add that many of us here have failed to notice then feel free to extend this debate.

I don't really care if you are offended by what I say. You have the choice of liking it or lumping it. I can be very frustrating you know!:Razz

3of8

22-Jul-09, 15:41

I can agree with that, this has all been done to death, and recently too. So I for one am more than happy to see the end of these type of threads.
.
.
.
.
However, if people are still intent on peddling the activities of charlatans and outright liars through these messageboards, then I will be here again and again and again to denounce them, as is my right.

Yup. We've been there before. And I agreed with you on that point. Charlatans and outright liars should be denounced. However.... oh it. You know what I think! :D

porshiepoo

22-Jul-09, 17:01

I never fail to be amazed at the level of negative response these types of threads attract. :eek:

Fran, thank you for informing those that are interested of the up coming event. It's an event in Caithness and of interest to Caithness people and as such has every right to be posted on this board despite the grievances of the minority.

Alan16: So you only believe in things, objects, beliefs, abilities etc that can and have stood up to Scientific testing?
So what of Astronomy? EP? Astrology? Religion?
Science is Empirical, it's based on Observation and evidence but with human interpretation and just because something has been scientifically proven or disproved does not mean it will always be so.
Science is constantly adapting and evolving alongside every species on the planet and it stands to reason that any 'science' and/or understanding of 'science' which is created by the human mind is as fallible as the human mind.
To believe only in scientifically proven objects, ideas etc just seems a tad bizarre to me.

cuddlepop

22-Jul-09, 17:11

here we go again.:roll:

Thank you Fran for posting this information for those who are interested and for the others

Why bother commenting?:confused

Fran

22-Jul-09, 17:36

My mail box was full with people asking about the next event. I phoned the organiser and put it on here save doing individual replies.
It is obviously an event people want to attend, like any other, so I see no harm in putting it on here. I also explained what i had experienced at this meetings. Can I point out that the mediums who come up are from aberdeen, glasgow etc, they dont know us or anything about us. Yet they can go up to someone, talk about their 21st birthday or when their hair colour turned out wrong etc etc. there is no way these people could get these things from people with body language etc.

redeyedtreefrog

22-Jul-09, 18:57

Alan16: So you only believe in things, objects, beliefs, abilities etc that can and have stood up to Scientific testing?
So what of Astronomy? EP? Astrology? Religion?

Things that have been proven and that are sensible would be a better way to put it. So long as it stands up to reason or has been proven, then I'd believe it. ESP, astrology, and religion fall into neither of these categories. Oh, and Astronomy is a science, the study of space. Tim Minchin puts it well in a part of his poem, Storm:

Look , Storm, I don’t mean to bore ya
But there’s no such thing as an aura!
Reading Auras is like reading minds
Or tea leaves, or star signs or meridian lines
These people aren’t playing a skill,
They are either lying or mentally ill.
Same goes for those who claim to hear God’s demands
And Spiritual healers who think they have magic hands.

By the way,
Why is it OK
For people to pretend they can talk to the dead?
Isn't it totally wrong in the head
Lying to some crying woman whose child has died
And telling her you’re in touch with the other side?
That’s just fundamentally sick
Do we need to clarify that there’s no such thing as a psychic?
What are we, 2?
Do we actually think that Horton Heard a Who?
Do we still think that Santa brings us gifts?
That Michael Jackson hasn’t had facelifts?

I'd also recommend another song by Tim, entitled If you Open Your Mind Too Much, Your Brain Will Fall Out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w

Alan16

22-Jul-09, 19:59

Things that have been proven and that are sensible would be a better way to put it. So long as it stands up to reason or has been proven, then I'd believe it. ESP, astrology, and religion fall into neither of these categories. Oh, and Astronomy is a science, the study of space. Tim Minchin puts it well in a part of his poem, Storm:

I'd also recommend another song by Tim, entitled If you Open Your Mind Too Much, Your Brain Will Fall Out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w (http://%7Fhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w)

AHHHHHHHHHH I'm being stalked! I am listening to Tim and Storm, his nine minute beat poem, at this moment (and in fact have tickets for him in Perth in November).

Anyway, redeye something or other summed up my position very well. I do not believe in science, as it implies that I will not open my mind to questioning it. But for ease I will use the word. I believe in things which are reasonable and, if it is needed, will stand up to scientific testing. I do not believe in God or ESP or Astrology because these are not reasonable and most certainly do not stand up to scientific testing. You should really check out Penn & Teller: Bullsh..! It is very informative.

Boozeburglar

22-Jul-09, 20:08

ever heard of freedom of choice?

I meant that I think there should be a Notices section for commercial events.

...as far as the legislation I am talking about, I think the activities of these people are potentially hugely damaging to vulnerable people, and as such they should be subject to stringent control.

I would not imagine anyone in the 'business' who had the public's interests at heart would object to some form of regulation.

:)

Alan16

22-Jul-09, 20:13

I would not imagine anyone in the 'business' who had the public's interests at heart would object to some form of regulation.

The problem is that these people don't have anyone but there own interests at heart.

catran

22-Jul-09, 20:16

Ever heard of fraud?
Aye it looks as if it is now becoming a booming business. in Caithness. Raffles are they allowed to do that or is it a registered charity?

katarina

22-Jul-09, 21:20

thank you for posting that fran - I'm sure anyone interested will be very glad to know of the upcoming event. You have every right to post on here.
those who don't want to know - well let them go and read their wikepedia.
I for one will not enter into another arguement, as it has already been pointed out this has been done to death.
All I can say is 'there are none so blind as those who will not see'.

EDDIE

22-Jul-09, 21:37

I don't believe that these people have any actual ability, and I wanted to make this clear so I don't give you the wrong impression. Can you explain to me what these people do at one of these events?

Alan rather than someone explaining it to u why dont u go and experience and form your own opinion.
I personally think that there is fake clairvoyance that no how to entertain and make people believe in them but i also think there is people with that gift and its just one of these things were you cant explain it its just a gift somepeople have

redeyedtreefrog

22-Jul-09, 21:51

AHHHHHHHHHH I'm being stalked! I am listening to Tim and Storm, his nine minute beat poem, at this moment

Freaky, I must have powers!:eek:

Fran

23-Jul-09, 00:21

[quote=Boozeburglar;576311]I personally don't know why the promotion of these events is allowed here.

It is not for charity.

======================================

I suggest you look at the whats on section for both dates and you will see that it is for charity.

Boozeburglar

23-Jul-09, 00:57

why should I read that section?

how much of tha £10 is donated to charity????

I should imagine next to none of it.

Alan16

23-Jul-09, 01:32

Alan rather than someone explaining it to u why dont u go and experience and form your own opinion.
I personally think that there is fake clairvoyance that no how to entertain and make people believe in them but i also think there is people with that gift and its just one of these things were you cant explain it its just a gift somepeople have

As I have stated before, I would not go to one of these things for fear that I would not be able to control myself in front of these lying so and sos. As Tim Minchin says, is there anything more sick than pretending and lying to people about hear thoughts from the other side? These people aren't plying a skill / They are either lying or they're mentally ill.

porshiepoo

23-Jul-09, 09:38

[quote=redeyedtreefrog;576539]Things that have been proven and that are sensible would be a better way to put it. So long as it stands up to reason or has been proven, then I'd believe it. ESP, astrology, and religion fall into neither of these categories. Oh, and Astronomy is a science, the study of space.

I said EP (Evolutionary Psychology) not ESP.
Astronomy is actually a Pseudoscience. It may claim to be scientific or appear to be scientific but has stood up to no actual scientific testing. In fact there are many facets of Astronomy which simply cannot stand up to scientific testing.

Supposing a person "died" and can tell you exactly what he/she experienced before coming back - is that not proof?
Supposing 100 people can tell you an extremely similar experience?
There have been many many studies in this area which suggest that there is something on 'the other side' and yet many people still cannot accept it.

Claiming to accept nothing but that which is scientifically proven is a cop out in my opinion. It challenges nothing and it prevents you yourself from having to question why, what or how, you are accepting an opinion based solely on scientific opinion and not because you have questioned it yourself.
Life is not so black and white as 'proven' or not. It wasn't so long ago that we all believed the earth to be flat - had someone suggested then that it was actually round they would have been laughed at and ridiculed.
In the words of Men in Black - "Imagine what the world will know tomorrow". ;)

redeyedtreefrog

23-Jul-09, 15:20

[QUOTE]

I said EP (Evolutionary Psychology) not ESP.
Astronomy is actually a Pseudoscience. It may claim to be scientific or appear to be scientific but has stood up to no actual scientific testing. In fact there are many facets of Astronomy which simply cannot stand up to scientific testing.

Supposing a person "died" and can tell you exactly what he/she experienced before coming back - is that not proof?
Supposing 100 people can tell you an extremely similar experience?

Sorry, thought you said ESP. Evolutionary psychology, too, is a scientific study, of how our behavioural traits evolved. Astronomy is studying celestial objects like stars and nebulae and whatnot, and is a respected and important field. Phil Plait, "The Bad Astronomer", is a highly respected scientist and president of the James Randi Educational Foundation-This shows that astronomy is accepted by the scientific community.

As for your comment about people having near-death experiences, they could be lying or, more likely, hallucinating or dreaming.

porshiepoo

23-Jul-09, 16:11

[quote=porshiepoo;576762]

Sorry, thought you said ESP. Evolutionary psychology, too, is a scientific study, of how our behavioural traits evolved. Astronomy is studying celestial objects like stars and nebulae and whatnot, and is a respected and important field. Phil Plait, "The Bad Astronomer", is a highly respected scientist and president of the James Randi Educational Foundation-This shows that astronomy is accepted by the scientific community.

As for your comment about people having near-death experiences, they could be lying or, more likely, hallucinating or dreaming.

EP may be a Scientific Study but it has not been Scientifically Proven - it can't be.
Therefore if a subject only has to be a Scientific Study to satisfy you then arguably Life after Death should actually be on your radar of believable.

Why does an experience based on near death have to be a case of lies, dreams or hallucinations?
Most of us accept the theory of evolution. It cannot be Scientifically proven beyond a doubt, but yet we accept it as fact. Why?
Because it makes sense that we evolved from the Great Ape? :eek: Because it's the only decent explanation we have?

EP is based on the study of human behaviour - Natural selection, Sexual Selection, Fears etc etc.
It seeks to explain Human behaviour but cannot actually prove it inconclusively, yet it calls itself a 'science'. This, in actual fact makes it a Pseudoscience.

The same goes for Astronomy.

Boozeburglar

23-Jul-09, 19:07

but cannot actually prove it inconclusively

Doesn't it irk you when you cannot prove something inconclusively?

;)

redeyedtreefrog

23-Jul-09, 20:00

[quote=redeyedtreefrog;576857]

EP may be a Scientific Study but it has not been Scientifically Proven - it can't be.
Therefore if a subject only has to be a Scientific Study to satisfy you then arguably Life after Death should actually be on your radar of believable.

Why does an experience based on near death have to be a case of lies, dreams or hallucinations?
Most of us accept the theory of evolution. It cannot be Scientifically proven beyond a doubt, but yet we accept it as fact. Why?
Because it makes sense that we evolved from the Great Ape? :eek: Because it's the only decent explanation we have?

EP is based on the study of human behaviour - Natural selection, Sexual Selection, Fears etc etc.
It seeks to explain Human behaviour but cannot actually prove it inconclusively, yet it calls itself a 'science'. This, in actual fact makes it a Pseudoscience.

The same goes for Astronomy.

Type astronomy and evolutionary psychology into Wikipedia, I'm tired and cant be bothered copy-pasting. And I think you're getting confused between evolutionary psychology and parapsychology, which is a pseudoscience.

Moi x

24-Jul-09, 00:59

I'm enjoying this thread. :)

I tried to engage the true believers in constructive bilateral discussions a year ago but, with the honorable exceptions of BRIE and Lindsay (to whom I am extremely grateful) and the creative imagination of Porshiepoo, I was met with irrational explanations, blatant misunderstandings and illiterate insults.

I don't know whether the clairvoyants or psychics have any real talents but most of their supporters certainly didn't display any.

BTW Porshiepoo, Astronomy is a hard science, in both senses of the word, but it differs from all other hard sciences in that you don't have control over the initial conditions in your experiments; there is only one universe and we can't restart it. It's a bit like my own field of Sociology in that respect but I'd be the first to admit that most sociologists are pseudo-scientists of the worst kind and that's why I'm getting out of it.

Moi x

katarina

24-Jul-09, 08:26

I meant that I think there should be a Notices section for commercial events.

...as far as the legislation I am talking about, I think the activities of these people are potentially hugely damaging to vulnerable people, and as such they should be subject to stringent control.

I would not imagine anyone in the 'business' who had the public's interests at heart would object to some form of regulation.

:)

have you any examples of how a vulnerable person has been damaged?
I can give you an example of how a very vulnerable person was helped enormously by visits to a psychic.
Oh, and let me add - look at the damage establishments that sell alchohol do to vulnerable people - shoud we ban them too?

porshiepoo

24-Jul-09, 09:45

Doesn't it irk you when you cannot prove something inconclusively?

;)

:lol: Oops, guess I should have re-read my passage before posting. lol. Guess that'll teach me to jump in all eager like. lol.

Y'all know what I meant though.

porshiepoo

24-Jul-09, 10:05

[quote=porshiepoo;576865]

Type astronomy and evolutionary psychology into Wikipedia, I'm tired and cant be bothered copy-pasting. And I think you're getting confused between evolutionary psychology and parapsychology, which is a pseudoscience.

I stand corrected! Damn it!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

Moi x

24-Jul-09, 23:53

I stand corrected! Damn it!!!!!!!!!! :lol:Don't be so quick to back down. What you described several posts back is indeed Evolutionary Psychology, not Parapsychology. Both are sciences, of a sort. EP is one of those modern areas that sits between well establish areas and is neither one thing nor the other but that doesn't mean it's not a science. In my experience Parapsychology involves a bunch of weird people studying other bunches of even weirder people but they do use objective methods. Mostly.

redeyedtreefrog

25-Jul-09, 00:27

Don't be so quick to back down. What you described several posts back is indeed Evolutionary Psychology, not Parapsychology. Both are sciences, of a sort. EP is one of those modern areas that sits between well establish areas and is neither one thing nor the other but that doesn't mean it's not a science. In my experience Parapsychology involves a bunch of weird people studying other bunches of even weirder people but they do use objective methods. Mostly.

Yes, EP was being described, but I thought it was confused with parapsychology on the basis of the fact that parapsychology is a pseudoscience. It tries to investigate and find the cause of psychic abilities and the afterlife with scientific methods. They can't do this because the above-mentioned things haven't been demonstrated to exist.

Moi x

25-Jul-09, 01:24

Yes, EP was being described, but I thought it was confused with parapsychology on the basis of the fact that parapsychology is a pseudoscience. It tries to investigate and find the cause of psychic abilities and the afterlife with scientific methods. They can't do this because the above-mentioned things haven't been demonstrated to exist.
Of course they can investigate so-called paranormal phenomena such as psychic abilities and the afterlife with scientific methods. How else would they do it?

I don't think Porshiepoo was confusing Evolutionary Psychology with Parapsychology even if she thinks she was. :lol:

Is parapsychology a true science? Is it just semantics? Like you, I think the paras are chasing rainbows but we could be wrong. Is Astrobiology a pseudoscience because life hasn't been shown to exist anywhere but on Earth?

Moi x

porshiepoo

25-Jul-09, 09:40

Of course they can investigate so-called paranormal phenomena such as psychic abilities and the afterlife with scientific methods. How else would they do it?

I don't think Porshiepoo was confusing Evolutionary Psychology with Parapsychology even if she thinks she was. :lol:

Is parapsychology a true science? Is it just semantics? Like you, I think the paras are chasing rainbows but we could be wrong. Is Astrobiology a pseudoscience because life hasn't been shown to exist anywhere but on Earth?

Moi x

You're correct, I didn't confuse the two. I should have been more clear as that wasn't what I was admitting to being corrected about.
I was going to go in depth into it but I got bored and really this subject is one that could go round and round forever and ever.

I may have jumped the gun in believeing that EP was a Psuedoscience but then again maybe I didn't.
Pseudoscience is basically a belief or practice that is made to look like science or claims to be science but actually lacks any kind of Scientific status and is actually based on untestable claims.
Evolutionary Psychology, in my opinion, is one such subject.

The other thing to remember is that science is constantly evolving and adapting and what we think we 'know' today may be pee'd all over tomorrow.

What I was trying to explain is that I find it bizarre that anyone would base any belief in life, objects, matter etc purely on a scientific study. A study that could tomorrow disprove what we 'know' now.
If a Scientific Experiment suddenly deemed that perhaps there is evidence of life after death is that all would take for all the non-believers to suddenly believe???
Bizarre!!!!

redeyedtreefrog

25-Jul-09, 16:18

Is Astrobiology a pseudoscience because life hasn't been shown to exist anywhere but on Earth?

Moi x

no because it's likely that that is the case

gleeber

25-Jul-09, 16:45

Pseudoscience is basically a belief or practice that is made to look like science or claims to be science but actually lacks any kind of Scientific status and is actually based on untestable claims.
Evolutionary Psychology, in my opinion, is one such subject.

You put up a darn good defence for believing in something that's no there pp so much so that I almost believed it myself. :lol:
To me, the difference between science and psuedo science is very simple. Science thinks of something and then sets out to find it. Psuedo-science has already found it but has no idea how it managed to find it. Usually it's just through convincing thoughts.
Evolutionary psychology is a real science. All you need to do is look at history to see that certain human emotions have evolved. Slowly, I'll give you that, but you can see from history that a massive change took place in human psychological evolution when the Greek philosophers got enlightened. It was a slow process up until that time and it's been a slow process since and itll be a slow process before we stop killing eachother but evolutionary psychology is all about the process and that process can't be denied.

Gleber2

25-Jul-09, 17:23

You put up a darn good defence for believing in something that's no there pp so much so that I almost believed it myself. :lol:
To me, the difference between science and psuedo science is very simple. Science thinks of something and then sets out to find it. Psuedo-science has already found it but has no idea how it managed to find it. Usually it's just through convincing thoughts.
Evolutionary psychology is a real science. All you need to do is look at history to see that certain human emotions have evolved. Slowly, I'll give you that, but you can see from history that a massive change took place in human psychological evolution when the Greek philosophers got enlightened. It was a slow process up until that time and it's been a slow process since and itll be a slow process before we stop killing eachother but evolutionary psychology is all about the process and that process can't be denied.
If we do stop killing each other we will over-run our poor planet and end up destroying in like a hoard of termites in a timber house!!:)