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I really enjoyed the recent series about the scots language and was fascinated by the comparison between the Catalan language and its revivial and Scots. I was also AMAZED to see that the government has given 12 million pounds - yes thats right 12 million pounds to Norther Ireland to support the development of Ulster Scots but that here in scotland there are few initiatives to encourage the Scots language.
One of the questions a friend raised asked "Why isn't there more written Scots?" He pondered why Newspapers like the "Scotsman" don't print the scots language. Where are the muckle headlines about ilka wife wi' the weans ahin' thum? Why can't the sports pages tell us when a manger on the side lines gie'd it laldey? Is there anything wrong with putting the idea that "George Galloway is a muckle moo'ed bawheidit ramstoorying bampot" into print? Even George would chuckle to see such a descriptive view of him printed in his native language before suing.
The Scots language is in danger of dying and we need to avoid that
happening. My friend thinks it is up to publications like the Scotsman to help us mak siccar!
What does everyone else think?
I rather like any language if it is used eloquently. However, I too saw the programme and I thought ill of some of the ideas that were put forward. Basically, they were proposing to enforce the study of Scots, a vernacular little understood outside its own borders. I think the time to study should be put to more industrious uses though I would heartily agree that Scots should be studied but not on the scale that the more fervent proponents were suggesting. To be more clear, I would like Scots to be studied as part of the syllabus of English in Scotland rather than as a language on its own. If students want to study it voluntary at a higher level then there should be a facility provided.
I am not trying to interfer or sideline the discussion. I am looking forward to reading the responses on this thread when I sit down for my late evening peruse of the day's activities on the forum. I am sure that the other orgers understand what is meant by "Scots". My regular translater has gone off the air for awhile, so I have to ask the question "out loud." When you use the term "Scots" do you mean Gaelic or somekind of combination of Gaelic with other influences or something else altogther? Thanks.
Here you are Canuk - as an english person i wouldnt begin to try to explain it but this site does ok i think.
http://www.scots-online.org/grammar/whits.htm
I really enjoyed the recent series about the scots language and was fascinated by the comparison between the Catalan language and its revivial and Scots. I was also AMAZED to see that the government has given 12 million pounds - yes thats right 12 million pounds to Norther Ireland to support the development of Ulster Scots but that here in scotland there are few initiatives to encourage the Scots language.
One of the questions a friend raised asked "Why isn't there more written Scots?" He pondered why Newspapers like the "Scotsman" don't print the scots language. Where are the muckle headlines about ilka wife wi' the weans ahin' thum? Why can't the sports pages tell us when a manger on the side lines gie'd it laldey? Is there anything wrong with putting the idea that "George Galloway is a muckle moo'ed bawheidit ramstoorying bampot" into print? Even George would chuckle to see such a descriptive view of him printed in his native language before
The Scots language is in danger of dying and we need to avoid that
happening. My friend thinks it is up to publications like the Scotsman to help us mak siccar!
What does everyone else think?
Which Scots tongue do we use Squidge? the Scots language is a multitude of dialects and very diverse and very parochial. So the first question I would ask which dialect do we use. As an example I will use the Lothians, in a 10 mile radius of Edinburgh there are three distinct accents, take Tranent East Lothian, Penicuick Midlothian, and say Kirkliston West Lothian, each are different. Multiply that by Fife, anywhere West of Harthill, Dundee, Aberdeen, and even Kaithness an Orkney. And now we are in trouble, I love reading Castlegreen...whom I consider has the tempo of the Kaitness drawl perfect in his verse. But to read the Scotsman written in the Doric...sorry I dont think so.
Read the Broons and Oor Wullie in the Sunday post if you want, "Jings, Crivvens, Help ma Boab", thats is a Dundee / Angus / C a r s e of Gowrie accent, which to my knowlege is not used anywhere else.
Squidge the idea is great, its just not practicable.
Have a read at Lewis Grassick Gibbons books such as "Sunset Song" for a great read in the mother tongue
Which Scots tongue do we use Squidge? the Scots language is a multitude of dialects and very diverse and very parochial. So the first question I would ask which dialect do we use.
Well for the language to "live" i dunno Golach - i know that there are also loads of different accents in English too. Maybe these arent used in newspapers although you will find that the Oldham evening chronicle probably uses recognised local words which are different than those used in say the Sunderland Observer or whatever the papers are. Maybe a scots column would be an interesting idea rather than the whole paper. Maybe every local paper should have a column in their local scots tongue to start with. Interesting to muse that we might have been talking about the Queen's english as being the Queens scots if as the programme suggests if James 6th hadnt given scots up as the language of court when he became James 1st - Received pronunciation might have leant itself to peelie wallie and skunnered.
Canuck, this link might be of interest to you as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_dialect
As Golach said, there are many different Scots dialects. Some of each dialect is English, with some words similar to English, and some words more similar to German. Indeed, when I was going to German classes several years ago, there were even more words in German almost identical to Scots than I'd expected! Both Scots dialect and German can be very picturesque, in a way that English is not, as well as being guttural. One of the reasons I enjoy the poetry of Robert Burns is because its picturesque quality, which is written in Lowland Scots. Take a look at the official Robert Burns site, and you'll see what I mean. It contains his complete works, and some of the more difficult words are linked to translations in English and other languages.
http://www.robertburns.org/
http://www.robertburns.org/works/
Canuck, this link might be of interest to you as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_dialect
Thanks Squidge and Sporran for the links. This is what I found on wikipedia.
Scots or Lallans (Eng (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language): Lowlands), sometimes called Lowland Scots to distinguish it from the Gaelic language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic_language) of the Highlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_highlands), is a West Germanic language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_language) used in Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland), parts of Northern Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland), and border areas of the Republic of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland), where it is known in official circles as Ulster Scots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_language) or Ullans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullans) but by speakers simply as Scotch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch) or Scots.
Native speakers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_speakers) refer to the language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language) as Scots, Braid Scots (Eng: Broad Scots), or simply Oor ain leid (Eng: Our own language).
Also wikipedia states that "Scots" is spoken in the Lowlands and in Caithness. This is all making sense now. My ancestral home is the Lowlands. Perhaps my affinity to Caithness is quite natural given the evidence of the language patterns.
I rather like any language if it is used eloquently. However, I too saw the programme and I thought ill of some of the ideas that were put forward. Basically, they were proposing to enforce the study of Scots, a vernacular little understood outside its own borders. I think the time to study should be put to more industrious uses though I would heartily agree that Scots should be studied but not on the scale that the more fervent proponents were suggesting. To be more clear, I would like Scots to be studied as part of the syllabus of English in Scotland rather than as a language on its own. If students want to study it voluntary at a higher level then there should be a facility provided.
I knew we'd agree on something eventually!
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