View Full Version : The Oldest Inhabitants? - The Macphees
David Banks
20-Jul-09, 16:22
From a book "Over the Ord" by Herbert Sinclair published (I guess) just after WWII, there is a chapter with the above title which begins:
"Not being a historian, I cannot vouch for the statement that the Macphees are the oldest inhabitants of the county, generations and generations long before the Sinclairs ever put foot in Caithness."
It also contains an article by Alex Finlayson, the postscript to which begins:
"There is a people living with us, yet not of us, people who have never assimilated with the population, the Macaphees."
I have another book "Caithness Your Home" published by Herbert Sinclair in London, November, 1930. On page 20 there is a photograph with the caption:
Quote:
The MacFees and the other Macs live in the Inkerman Quarry, on the road to Staxigoe. As with other things and persons in Wick, the lot of the tinkers has changed. Many of them call themselves "dealers," the children attend school, some of the elders find work, but the nomadic strain remains.
Unquote
I can recall that for a time a family of Macphees lived in Brough and attended Crossroads School in the 1950's. The eldest son, George was close to my age or perhaps a year younger. I was born in 1947.
Having lived and worked across Canada, I have become more familiar with the fight to survive of the Native Peoples across Canada, including the north.
So, my questions:
Do the Macphees still exist in Caithness, or elsewhere in northern Scotland ?
Have they settled into homes, or does "the nomadic strain remain" ?
Have they ever claimed status as an aboriginal people ?
Have they received any special recognition or treatment by 'regular' Caithnessians, or governments ?
Does anyone remember anything of the Brough Macphees I mentioned above ?
Any other relevant information would be most welcome.
ADDED Comment, 2009.07.21:
My interest is in the present day situation of the "tinkers."
Contact me via PM if you prefer.
teenybash
20-Jul-09, 17:23
You might find this link useful in you research.....
One of my dearest friends is a Macphee lady whose travelling instincts still are part of her life and though she lives in a house still has a restless spirit to 'go'. She is full of intelligent common sense and has a wonderful knoweledge of nature and her gifts
Macphees also linked to Ireland and I presume migrated when ousted from the west of Scotland..............why they have never been integrated in Caithness is a mystery as this does not seem to be the case elsewhere.
www.scotsclans.com/scottish_clans/clan_macphee/history.html (http://www.scotsclans.com/scottish_clans/clan_macphee/history.html)
Hope the link works..................
I grew up in Renfrewshire and there were several families of MacPhees in the area and some still live there today. I can remember when they were housed they all lived on the same street and kept themselves to themselves:roll:
David Banks
21-Jul-09, 11:02
You might find this link useful in you research.....
One of my dearest friends is a Macphee lady whose travelling instincts still are part of her life and though she lives in a house still has a restless spirit to 'go'. She is full of intelligent common sense and has a wonderful knoweledge of nature and her gifts
Macphees also linked to Ireland and I presume migrated when ousted from the west of Scotland..............why they have never been integrated in Caithness is a mystery as this does not seem to be the case elsewhere.
www.scotsclans.com/scottish_clans/clan_macphee/history.html (http://www.scotsclans.com/scottish_clans/clan_macphee/history.html)
Hope the link works..................
Thank you Teenybash for your reply. My original thread may not have been clear, and the clan history link will probably not have much current information.
What I wanted to know was about the present situation of the people formerly known as 'tinkers.'
Are they still around in Caithness, integrated, or moved away?
ADDED 2009.07.21 @ 14:45 ADT (Halifax NS):
If your "Macphee lady" friend could help me get in touch with George Macphee - or Mcphee - who briefly went to Crossroads school with me in the 1950's, it would be appreciated.
Contact me via PM if you prefer.
Tighsonas4
21-Jul-09, 12:51
can remember quite well when they were in inkerman quarry, the skirl of bagpipes would be heard .
ponies and traps were the order of the daywith them not forgetting a dog or two, went to school with somee of them
personally i would say they are all part of the community now tony
Kevin Milkins
21-Jul-09, 15:54
I have a family named Macphee living next door to me, but I am sure they would not take kindly to me if I asked them if they are from a family of Tinkers.lol.
The name is very common in Wick and I would regard my nieghbours as being up there with the best.:Razz
Hi David,
Have you tried 192.com in your search for George Mcphee.
Cathy
Alice in Blunderland
21-Jul-09, 16:30
My dad is very good friends with a Macphee who was born in a cave in Wick and this is actually on his birth certificate. I will ask him more info when I see him tonight.
His friend always said he is the son of the last of the tinkers. :)
bettedaviseyes
21-Jul-09, 16:44
could we please STOP using the word T then laughting it off with an lol:mad:
Tighsonas4
21-Jul-09, 17:21
can remember quite well when they were in inkerman quarry, the skirl of bagpipes would be heard .
ponies and traps were the order of the daywith them not forgetting a dog or two, went to school with somee of them
personally i would say they are all part of the community now tonyps
i just followed the name of the quarry but it should read hillhead quarry and not inkerman. the quarry was situated right at the end of willowbank
can just mind them living in a cave at the wick side of broadhaven in fact that photo is on here possibly amongst the old wick photos tony
there are several familys of mcphees in wick at present.
not being a native it took me a while to understand the word tink or tinker ect..from what i understand it has become a very derogatory term for what was once a way of life.
has anyone read 'Jessie's journey' and 'tales from the tent'? not about caithness, true, but a very interesting read about a way of life that has gone.
the answer to the question is yes, McPhees still live in caithness, and have intergrated. Personally I believe in judging someone by what they are today, rather than what their background was. I think most people now a days are like that. If I'm wrong I'm sure some one will put me right. As for the wandering spirit, I don't know.
has anyone read 'Jessie's journey' and 'tales from the tent'? not about caithness, true, but a very interesting read about a way of life that has gone.
Yes and they are brilliant books.
Have you read 'Yellow On the Broom'. Another great book re travellers.
Lavenderblue2
21-Jul-09, 19:17
Yes and they are brilliant books.
Have you read 'Yellow On the Broom'. Another great book re travellers.
Yes Liz, a great book by Betsy Whyte, also 'Red Rowans and Wild Honey' by the same author.
Another book which has a lot written about Sutherlandshire and a fair bit about Caithness is 'The Summer Walkers' by Timothy Neat.
Yes Liz, a great book by Betsy Whyte, also 'Red Rowans and Wild Honey' by the same author.
Another book which has a lot written about Sutherlandshire and a fair bit about Caithness is 'The Summer Walkers' by Timothy Neat.
Oh yes forgot about 'Red Rowans and Wild Honey'.:D
I have just finished reading a book about Belle Stewart which was written by her daughter. She also wrote a book of short stories re tinkers which I enjoyed.
Alice in Blunderland
21-Jul-09, 19:37
could we please STOP using the word T then laughting it off with an lol:mad:
Have people edited their posts to take the lol out as I cannot see anyone having used the lol after the word T :confused
bettedaviseyes
21-Jul-09, 19:47
look closer then:confused
webmannie
21-Jul-09, 19:55
look closer then:confused
Can't see a T and lol, enlighten us please
I have a family named Macphee living next door to me, but I am sure they would not take kindly to me if I asked them if they are from a family of Tinkers.lol.
The name is very common in Wick and I would regard my nieghbours as being up there with the best.:Razz
I think this is the post she is meaning - 'from a family of Tinkers lol'
But i am sure milkins is not meaning it in a derogerat (dont no how to spell it) way, it doesnt come across that way with me anyway!
Just looking for a bit of attention me thinks lol!!!!
Alice in Blunderland
21-Jul-09, 20:37
Me neither, I missed it when I first looked back as I was looking for something derogatory. Kevin's post to me was light some. :)
I have a family named Macphee living next door to me, but I am sure they would not take kindly to me if I asked them if they are from a family of Tinkers.lol.
The name is very common in Wick and I would regard my nieghbours as being up there with the best.:Razz
I have worked alongside many Macphees over the past decades and everyone of them was truthful, hard working, honest as they come and they were all family orientated. More than I can say about a lot of others who could talk a good job, a skill some people acquired through running up the bosses backside, practically illiterate, lolled about with a good mouthpiece, pretending to work, dishonest to the core.
One Macphee got the MM medal for fighting the Germans so they have a tale or two to tell.
Most Macphees were decent responsible people and have now fully integrated into the 21st century, perhaps not for the better, the way it is going.Mind you they would have been rich if they got all the family credits, handouts ect if they had had their bairns in this mod.. However, they were rich in other ways. Marched down to the bathing pool for their bath well that great.
Kevin Milkins
21-Jul-09, 22:26
It became apparent not long after moving to Caithness that Tink or Tinker is a disrespectful name to call anyone and have seen a few people falling out over this derogatory term.
The” lol” in my post was not a laugh at the word Tinker, but the notion that I should ask my neighbour if they descend from a long line of Tinker’s, as it would be a laughable notion to ask Rolf Harris “is your granny out of jail yet”?
I always try and respect people’s feelings and would never deliberately offend anyone, however I can see how the written word can be misunderstood (or twisted) to make it sound different to its intended meaning.
It is becoming much more plain to see why we have so many members on the Org and far less that are prepared to post and also understand why such a lot of good posters have decided to call it day.
I used to enjoy the unrestrained banter on the Org, but I am getting more wary about switching my computer on let alone run my fingers over the keys and press post without the fear that someone will read what you have to say and then try to turn it into a slanging match.
If I have unwittingly offended anyone with my post, then I apologise and I consider myself privileged to have such good neighbours
Kevin anyone who read your post properly would realise what the 'lol' in your post meant and it certainly wasn't offensive.
There just seem to be some whose mission it is to go through each post to find 'fault' and provoke a reaction.
This is why I post so little now and tend to stick to Pets Corner.
Well, well, I am sure none of them will be offended, just have a look at other Caithness names, or all the immigrants over the past few years for that matter, they are the nomads of todays society. They come, they go. LOL
Aaldtimer
22-Jul-09, 02:40
I have always hated the term "tink" as it is a derogative use of the original version of the term.
Even the word "Tinker" does not convey the original.
They derive from the term "Tinkler", which was used to describe the itinerant pot or kettle menders who passed through communities, doing repairs and useful work in their passage.
The tinkling coming from the wares they carried during their travels.:)
In this modern age of diposability they were never going to survive in the trade!:confused
Alice in Blunderland
22-Jul-09, 05:45
I always try and respect people’s feelings and would never deliberately offend anyone, however I can see how the written word can be misunderstood (or twisted) to make it sound different to its intended meaning.
It is becoming much more plain to see why we have so many members on the Org and far less that are prepared to post and also understand why such a lot of good posters have decided to call it day.
I used to enjoy the unrestrained banter on the Org, but I am getting more wary about switching my computer on let alone run my fingers over the keys and press post without the fear that someone will read what you have to say and then try to turn it into a slanging match.
Kevin this is happening more and more on the org as you say.
Many posters have found that some people when reading what has been posted perceive insults and offence where none is intended. :)
I have worked alongside many Macphees over the past decades and everyone of them was truthful, hard working, honest as they come and they were all family orientated. More than I can say about a lot of others who could talk a good job, a skill some people acquired through running up the bosses backside, practically illiterate, lolled about with a good mouthpiece, pretending to work, dishonest to the core.
One Macphee got the MM medal for fighting the Germans so they have a tale or two to tell.
Most Macphees were decent responsible people and have now fully integrated into the 21st century, perhaps not for the better, the way it is going.Mind you they would have been rich if they got all the family credits, handouts ect if they had had their bairns in this mod.. However, they were rich in other ways. Marched down to the bathing pool for their bath well that great.
You forgot to say what characters! And What stories MM could tell!
It would be a pity if the sense of humour, the natural ability of story telling, and even the cant, was lost as they intergrate to the point of extiction. descendants of the travelling people should not feel ashamed of their roots as i fear many have been made to do, and if they can, keep records of their families. there is such a wealth of history that will be lost if these stories are handed down only by word of mouth, and eventually are forgotten.
.
What canna be forgotten is the amount of discrimination Macphees have had to put up with over the years. Non of us could ever begin to imagine what it was like for them so its no surprise that some people will be sensitive about the t word.
Tighsonas4
22-Jul-09, 10:28
It became apparent not long after moving to Caithness that Tink or Tinker is a disrespectful name to call anyone and have seen a few people falling out over this derogatory term.
The” lol” in my post was not a laugh at the word Tinker, but the notion that I should ask my neighbour if they descend from a long line of Tinker’s, as it would be a laughable notion to ask Rolf Harris “is your granny out of jail yet”?
I always try and respect people’s feelings and would never deliberately offend anyone, however I can see how the written word can be misunderstood (or twisted) to make it sound different to its intended meaning.
It is becoming much more plain to see why we have so many members on the Org and far less that are prepared to post and also understand why such a lot of good posters have decided to call it day.
I used to enjoy the unrestrained banter on the Org, but I am getting more wary about switching my computer on let alone run my fingers over the keys and press post without the fear that someone will read what you have to say and then try to turn it into a slanging match.
If I have unwittingly offended anyone with my post, then I apologise and I consider myself privileged to have such good neighbours thats one for the books, you dont see many apoligies on here good on you kevin tony
silverfox57
22-Jul-09, 11:59
It became apparent not long after moving to Caithness that Tink or Tinker is a disrespectful name to call anyone and have seen a few people falling out over this derogatory term.
The” lol” in my post was not a laugh at the word Tinker, but the notion that I should ask my neighbour if they descend from a long line of Tinker’s, as it would be a laughable notion to ask Rolf Harris “is your granny out of jail yet”?
I always try and respect people’s feelings and would never deliberately offend anyone, however I can see how the written word can be misunderstood (or twisted) to make it sound different to its intended meaning.
It is becoming much more plain to see why we have so many members on the Org and far less that are prepared to post and also understand why such a lot of good posters have decided to call it day.
I used to enjoy the unrestrained banter on the Org, but I am getting more wary about switching my computer on let alone run my fingers over the keys and press post without the fear that someone will read what you have to say and then try to turn it into a slanging match.
If I have unwittingly offended anyone with my post, then I apologise and I consider myself privileged to have such good neighbours
kevin dont think you have offended any one ,who has a bit of common sense,
Hi David,
I looked at 192.com for you and found quite a few people called George Mcphee.
One was age 60 to 64 years . hope this helps.
Cathy
Would you prefer the phrase broon ball instead?..............Lol........Woops, I said lol.
well i would like to start of and say that i am a Mcphee (and proud) and how disgusted i am reading all this about macphee's, tinks, broon bulls. what do you people get out of speaking about us like we are from a different planet than the rest of you, after all we (Mcphees) work to provide for our families unlike some people with different surnames. How dare you judge us because of our surname. and yes i personally am offended speaking about tinks, and yes i have alot of common sense. we also know about our families back grounds and what happened all those years ago but i don't think it takes people like some of you lot to speak about it on the org. shame on you but i suppose you can't take ignorance out of some people and they will never change.
In Over the Ord by Herbert Sinclair the author has put a question mark after ''The Oldest inhabitants ?'' when writing about the MacPhees , so it would seem Herbert was not too sure himself.
He tells us that Maggie MacPhee sister of John, once saved his life as a baby when he was choking on a bead, and luckily she was passing his door at the right time. Later Herbert Sinclair was asked by Rev Ballantyne if he would give the bride away at Maggie's wedding to be held at the Manse. Herbert agreed of course, I think he was very fond of the whole Tribe. He was indeed honoured, as they kept to themselves.
111heather
22-Jul-09, 14:10
good for you julie its about time some one put them in their place i agree we what you say some people are very ignorant
american gal
22-Jul-09, 14:48
well i would like to start of and say that i am a Mcphee (and proud) and how disgusted i am reading all this about macphee's, tinks, broon bulls. what do you people get out of speaking about us like we are from a different planet than the rest of you, after all we (Mcphees) work to provide for our families unlike some people with different surnames. How dare you judge us because of our surname. and yes i personally am offended speaking about tinks, and yes i have alot of common sense. we also know about our families back grounds and what happened all those years ago but i don't think it takes people like some of you lot to speak about it on the org. shame on you but i suppose you can't take ignorance out of some people and they will never change.
dont let them get to you we know what we are and what we have we are the ones that are laughing at how ingnorant some of these people are,just when they think they are better than us that thought alone makes them not. Just ignore them even though i ken it is hard i have learned to though through the years.
The Tinkers
by Ben Loyal c. 1950
When the tinkers go through e toon
The wind is in their hair,
An' glintan ower their faces broon,
Is the wildness o' e' moor.
Between rovin road and road
They rake along e street,
And a breath blaws by fae e firwood
An a whiff o burnan peat.
Wi their easy, slochan ways
They cross the causey-stane
Walkin' in fae e bracken braes
An awa till e braes again !
well i would like to start of and say that i am a Mcphee (and proud) and how disgusted i am reading all this about macphee's, tinks, broon bulls. what do you people get out of speaking about us like we are from a different planet than the rest of you, after all we (Mcphees) work to provide for our families unlike some people with different surnames. How dare you judge us because of our surname. and yes i personally am offended speaking about tinks, and yes i have alot of common sense. we also know about our families back grounds and what happened all those years ago but i don't think it takes people like some of you lot to speak about it on the org. shame on you but i suppose you can't take ignorance out of some people and they will never change.
I have just come in from work and well said Julie, dont be offended, rise above them all, some people have short memories is all I can say. As I said I have worked with many people, with different surnames and all the Macphees were hardworking, decent and honest so ignore the numpties.
Well said Julie. Twice in my life it has been my priviledge to be neighbours to two different Macphee families in two different towns. They were both hard working families and when there was extra tatties and veg they were shared round the doors amongst about six neighbours. Wonderful clan, they have my admiration.
Mrs Bucket
22-Jul-09, 21:36
I think the Macphee clan has a lot to be proud of. But they have been sneered at and put down for as long as I can remember. I used to cringe in school the way they were treated by teachers it was disgraceful and believe me it was just because of their name. That still makes me angry but then of course teachers thought themselves a cut above. I am of a generation that can remember Macphees coming round the doors selling ornaments etc. I still have some things my mother bought. They were always offered a cup of tea which was usually gracefully accepted. There was one woman who would only take her tea out of a bowl tradition I think
Alice in Blunderland
22-Jul-09, 21:46
Like you my dad remembers well the pots pans and nik-naks that they sold.
My dad also remarked once that he would rather have a Macphee next door to him than many others.
well i would like to start of and say that i am a Mcphee (and proud) and how disgusted i am reading all this about macphee's, tinks, broon bulls. what do you people get out of speaking about us like we are from a different planet than the rest of you, after all we (Mcphees) work to provide for our families unlike some people with different surnames. How dare you judge us because of our surname. and yes i personally am offended speaking about tinks, and yes i have alot of common sense. we also know about our families back grounds and what happened all those years ago but i don't think it takes people like some of you lot to speak about it on the org. shame on you but i suppose you can't take ignorance out of some people and they will never change.
I don't think anyone was being derogatory by using the name McPhee, and the mention of 'tinks' appears only to point out disapproval of the word. I have re-read the thread and have only seen positive posts (except for one) I'm sure no one meant any offence. The person who used the term 'broon ball' was way out of line however, and should be tarred and feathered.
american gal
22-Jul-09, 22:05
:confused
I don't think anyone was being derogatory by using the name McPhee, and the mention of 'tinks' appears only to point out disapproval of the word. I have re-read the thread and have only seen positive posts (except for one) I'm sure no one meant any offence. The person who used the term 'broon ball' was way out of line however, and should be tarred and feathered.
yes you are correct in what you are saying but when you spend a lifetime in this town being looked down on and being treated well quite simply like dirt just because of your name then yes one does get a little on the deffensive side esspecially when you see posts from that one who talkd of broon bull who by the way is being very disrespectfull!! i have seen people barred of here for less! this person needs to be in the oger jail as he/she is trying to cause trouble isnt there a law against that on the org? Anyway this post is about a man looking for a george mcphee who lived at bower and went to crossroad school any1 able to help him?
I don't think anyone was being derogatory by using the name McPhee, and the mention of appears only to point out disapproval of the word. I have re-read the thread and have only seen positive posts (except for one) I'm sure no one meant any offence. The person who used the term 'broon ball' was way out of line however, and should be tarred and feathered.
That's one of the problems with discrimination. Unless your the one who feels the discrimination you could never understand what it feels like. Maybe teddybear will take note of his moment of stupidity and think about how his words could be so hurtful.
I think that using the T word in Caithness is racist as using the N word in Alabama and you know what? I hear it being used very very often in caithness and always in a derogatory fashion. Caithness.org should really consider it's use and some of the mindless remarks made towards a section of the community.
:confused
yes you are correct in what you are saying but when you spend a lifetime in this town being looked down on and being treated well quite simply like dirt just because of your name then yes one does get a little on the deffensive side esspecially when you see posts from that one who talkd of broon bull who by the way is being very disrespectfull!! i have seen people barred of here for less! this person needs to be in the oger jail as he/she is trying to cause trouble isnt there a law against that on the org? Anyway this post is about a man looking for a george mcphee who lived at bower and went to crossroad school any1 able to help him?
I do get what you are saying. And as gleeber said, this is racism and predudice and understandably you will be on the defensive. Unfortunately there will always be ignorant people around. But take heart from all the positive posts on this thread, and lets hope that the next generation will not suffer because of their name.
Tighsonas4
23-Jul-09, 17:32
You forgot to say what characters! And What stories MM could tell!
It would be a pity if the sense of humour, the natural ability of story telling, and even the cant, was lost as they intergrate to the point of extiction. descendants of the travelling people should not feel ashamed of their roots as i fear many have been made to do, and if they can, keep records of their families. there is such a wealth of history that will be lost if these stories are handed down only by word of mouth, and eventually are forgotten.
.
have sent you a pm katrina
There has been some suggestion that there are a few Scottish families that became known as travelling folk because after the early clearances they never settled (or were never allowed to settle) and became travelling tinsmiths.
we just got to much for them its to do with alot of jelousy as were no longer sitting like years ago with nothing instead today were running the best motors own our own houses and are not to the neck with debt like others of the town my how the times has changed for us so called tinks were just to well of for the country folk of the town and it feels good
Prejudice in any form is a dreadful affliction especially if you are on the receiving end. We all have roots in the past and should be proud of our heritage regardless of where it originated. What is the difference to be descended from a nomadic travelling people any more than being descended from a horde of invaders who raped and pillaged and murdered whole populations? The MacPhee clan should be as proud of their heritage as the Swansons of their Viking roots we are who we are now. There is now doubt that prejudice does exist in all societies especially if there are differences that can be picked on and no where in the world is except from this problem. I think if everyone truly looked truly at themselves they would all find some prejudice somewhere in their behaviour it is both human and animal nature.
Getting back to our fellow clan the MacPhees I know they do suffer from prejudice from unusual corners of society. I remember a Social worker that came to Wick with the surname MacPhee but left because of the prejudice he experienced he was unable to open a bank account or get credit etc in local shops. And this was only as far back as the late 70’s. we have moved on somewhat since then and hopefully will continue to improve.
I have come across this prejudice story since I was born in Caithness, but my father always put me straight, he thought nothing but good about the MacPhee family and would not tolerate me bad mouthing any of them.
I have a sister in law who is a Macphee from Perthshire, why is there no predjudice against Macphee's in Perthshire? Why does Caithness only hold onto this bitterness and bile?
well said julie,can,t wait for you to get back to work needing a plate of your soup
George Brims
24-Jul-09, 21:39
I have come across this prejudice story since I was born in Caithness, but my father always put me straight, he thought nothing but good about the MacPhee family and would not tolerate me bad mouthing any of them.
I have a sister in law who is a Macphee from Perthshire, why is there no predjudice against Macphee's in Perthshire? Why does Caithness only hold onto this bitterness and bile?
My dad used to tell me (and I know this first part may offend some but I'm talking about back in the 1960s now) that a person from the "T" clan might well have a tendency to be a bit light-fingered, but he also said they would give you their last shilling if they thought you had need of it. To his mind the latter much outweighed the former. My own experience with McPhees I have known is that the old guy was right about their generosity.
Golach I think maybe the lack of discrimination elsewhere was maybe a measure if how much or how little the Caithness McPhees had integrated compared to elsewhere. Well I would like to think that was the answer, otherwise I can think little of my fellow Cathnessians.
well i would like to start of and say that i am a Mcphee (and proud) and how disgusted i am reading all this about macphee's, tinks, broon bulls. what do you people get out of speaking about us like we are from a different planet than the rest of you, after all we (Mcphees) work to provide for our families unlike some people with different surnames. How dare you judge us because of our surname. and yes i personally am offended speaking about tinks, and yes i have alot of common sense. we also know about our families back grounds and what happened all those years ago but i don't think it takes people like some of you lot to speak about it on the org. shame on you but i suppose you can't take ignorance out of some people and they will never change.
I'm sure McPhee's work the same as any other surname;)
Like every famiLy there is good and BAD. Y/N ?
Dog-eared
24-Jul-09, 23:49
Spider McPhee lived across the road from me when I was young and he was very helpful when I got my first motorbike ( I was 15) . Nothing was too much trouble to him and he was very supportive then and later.
His family were great to know and I had the great pleasure of attending one of their wedding anniversary parties.
Another time,their sons were trawling for clams and they dredged lots of coal fron an old wrecked boat, they bagged it on deck and passed on to needy folks.
Good folks.
Tighsonas4
25-Jul-09, 10:21
thats who i left unnamed but was going to give the groat an article, ,the way they edited it was not as given so they got no more
he is one from i got most of my infmo that i put on here
topping chap with a wealth of information tony
there is a question I would ask, and without causing offense to anyone. does anyone know if the original traveling people of caithness were descendants of the Romany Gypsies?
Lavenderblue2
06-Aug-09, 16:26
Just to say, before the Forum went down I posted a couple of poems in the Literature section with this thread in mind.
sintra307
06-Aug-09, 20:07
:)in reply to your post katrina..... i have just finished reading four very good books about the travelling people of the highlands.... and i quote from the cover of one of them:- these scottish nomads are not gypsies. they are indigenous gaelic speaking highlanders and they remain heirs to a vital and ancient culture. this book called the summer walkers says the summer walkers is the name the crofters of scotlands north west highlands gave the travelling people- the itinerant tinsmiths, horse-dealers,hawkers and pearl-fishers who made their living on the road.
another book called the last of the tinsmiths the life of willie macphee says:- if you keep your eyes and ears open in the scottish countryside, even today you can still catch a glimpse of an ancient, aboriginal people, known in the 18th-century highlands as the luchd siubhail - the travelling people.
these books are very well worth the read if the subject interests you...i cant put into words how interesting these people are....
sintra307 Would you mind letting me know what the titles of the books are you have read?
I have read a few books re the 'travelling' people and thoroughly enjoyed them.
They lived a hard life and had to endure terrible bigotry.
sintra307
06-Aug-09, 21:06
:)the books are:-
the summer walkers by timothy neat isbn 1 84158 199 2
last of the tinsmiths the life of willie macphee by sheila douglas isbn 1 84158 511 4
the yellow on the broom and red rowans and wild honey both written by betsy whyte.
all of these book are easy to come by.....and there are many more titles to be read they are worth every penny best read i have had for a long time. i use the book depository or ebay to get most of mine.
:)the books are:-
the summer walkers by timothy neat isbn 1 84158 199 2
last of the tinsmiths the life of willie macphee by sheila douglas isbn 1 84158 511 4
the yellow on the broom and red rowans and wild honey both written by betsy whyte.
all of these book are easy to come by.....and there are many more titles to be read they are worth every penny best read i have had for a long time. i use the book depository or ebay to get most of mine.
Thanks!
I've read the Betsy Whyte books and they are excellent.
Have you read the books by Jess Smith? I have just read her novel 'Bruar's Rest' and it is the best book I have read in a while.
I also read a book re Belle Stewart written by her daughter Sheila and really enjoyed it.
sintra307
06-Aug-09, 23:07
:)no i have not read these books you mention sounds like i will have to invest in some more i have heard of jess smith i think i am right in beelieving she also is a traveller just like betsy whyte ....but for anyone interested in the macphee family the summer walkers is the one......
Amy-Winehouse
07-Aug-09, 00:40
Theres discrimination anywhere you go now a days !! Not just caithness :mad: Theres good and bad in all different folk no matter what race,ethnic group, ect ect, or in this case surname. There are alot of very good folk in caithness and not everyone should be tarred with the same brush, I have a few very good friends that are related to a Mcphee family and are probably the best people i could have ever have as friends!!!
I read something on here that i found quite bizzare saying something about people being jealous of peoples wealth. I couldnt actually care about money or material items as people are far more important and i would far rather go home knowing my family is happy and healthy,
I would rather be broke and happy rather than rich and miserable :Razz
greenasiamcabbagelooking
08-Aug-09, 23:34
i agree with most of what your saying there Amy, but the discrimination against the Mac/McPhee's is certainly a Caithness thing.
i know a lad who's a Macphee and had no bother with the surname in Aberdeen ... then he moved to Caithness and was called all the usual names by the kids at school. He now wants to change his surname because of the slagging and also because he thinks that employers will bin any applications as soon as they see his surname.
i've lived in a fair few places in Scotland and Caithness is the only place i've ever known the Macphees to get a hard time.
It's historical and will remain a blight on the Caithness culture until it stops being passed on through the generations.
Too many people in Caithness are small-minded people who continually judge people and discriminate them because of their surname. They will choose not to give someone a job or even a fair chance in life just because of a last name and this sort of behaviour seems born into them, they were brought up on the prejudice. I have never judged anyone in that way and I never will. There could be a very nasty, dishonest man who would do you wrong but if he has the "right" surname he will be treated with respect, whereas, on the other hand if he is deemed as not having the "right" surname he will be treated with no respect or kindness. It is not right or fair and it is also a very old-fashioned attitude.
Such words as were being spoken of in this post, are in the same category as racism and people should not get away with saying them in a derogatory manner, just the same as if you use racist insults. People should respect other cultures and ways of life, if thats what a person is descended from, who are you to judge them for it?
Amy-Winehouse
09-Aug-09, 19:48
Not to be argumentive but when i lived in wales there were families down there called the gypo,s so i think it is everywhere!!! But on the other hand i see what your saying about not being able to get employed as a close friend of mines moved away because she couldnt get a job because of her surname so yes i agree it is happening in caithness.
And i do think sometimes in a small community such as caithness sometimes it,s down to who you know not what you know sadly but as i said before it,s a all over problem not just a caithness one :~(
There are alot of families up here such as the mcphees who are very hard working people but so are other people with any other surname, Like i said before theres good and bad in all different folk !
David Banks
27-Aug-09, 08:31
1. Unless I missed something, I did not hear any opinion as to my opening question - are the Travelling People the Original Inhabitants of Caithness ?
-- before the highland clearances, and even before the Viking incursions of the first millenium CE ?
The question I quoted from an early 1900's book cannot be the only occasion on which the question was asked, and I think a scientific answer to this historical question would be certainly possible, and worthwhile; I hope it gets attended to quickly.
2. Before we get into any further polling or 'discussions' about Gaelic Expenditure, would we not be better advised first discovering the potential real original inhabitants of Caithness ?
3. I did learn that there are many 'ordinary Caithnessians' who do not discriminate against the Travelling People, or any other group en masse.
4. Sadly, I did also find a number of people who still harbour discriminatory feelings towards others who are 'different,' specifically the Travelling People.
A lot of hurt has been caused and still lingers in some of those who have been wrongly treated. In my opinion, continued open communication by those who do care might solve this problem rather than waiting for another generation shift to do the job for us.
George Brims
27-Aug-09, 19:32
I was reminded today that it's far wider than Caithness. Madonna got herself a nasty audience reaction when she mentioned at a concert in Romania that she didn't like discrimination against the Gypsies. Of course many people would be upset at a foreigner coming in and criticizing their country, regardless of how they themselves felt about the issue.* If you want to see the worst example, visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, and learn about the huge numbers of Roma people murdered by the Third Reich.
*As usual, there is a Winston Churchill story that's relevant. In the late 40s Winnie was crossing the Atlantic on a liner, and an American woman came up to him and demanded to know "Mr Churchill, what are you going to do about the Indians?". Winnie looked up from his paper and asked "Indians, Madam? Yours or ours?"
Aaldtimer
28-Aug-09, 03:00
Mr Brims, I think your question as to whether the McPhees were the original inhabitants of Caithness is slightly flawed.
The original inhabitants of Caithness were indeed travelling people, as they obviously come from somewhere else, and settled here, long before there was ever a clan system! :confused
George Brims
28-Aug-09, 18:38
Take a look at the start of this thread. It wasn't my question.
David Banks
28-Aug-09, 19:26
Mr Brims, I think your question as to whether the McPhees were the original inhabitants of Caithness is slightly flawed.
The original inhabitants of Caithness were indeed travelling people, as they obviously come from somewhere else, and settled here, long before there was ever a clan system! :confused
The question came from a book I have, entitled "Over the Ord" written/published by Herbert Sinclair sometime early after WWII (I'm guessing at the date based upon the contents).
My question is not about travelling people in general, but about the people specifically identified as "The Travelling People" in this thread. To the best of my knowledge, not all of the current "Travelling People" have the clan name Macphee or some variant of it.
The question took on more significance to me with the level of discussion on the org about Gaelic in Caithness. If the "Travelling People" were e.g.: descendants of (say) the Picts who predate the Gaelic by centuries, then I think it would be worthwhile for Caithnessians to know that - for the current discussions of Gaelic and this county.
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