View Full Version : Orange Marches
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 09:49
It's that time of the year again, folks. I doubt you have the same problem in Caithness, but down my way, I get sick of being rudely awakened on a Sunday at 8am by these insensitive idiots every July. Be careful.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8131354.stm
Police warn Orange march 'bigots'
Orange band
Thousands of people are expected at the march through Glasgow city centre
Strathclyde Police have warned that they will not tolerate "sectarian behaviour" at the annual Orange Order parade in Glasgow this weekend.
About 8,000 marchers from 182 lodges across the city are expected to take part in Saturday's parade.
Thousands more people are expected to follow the marchers for a rally at Kelvingrove Park.
Police said their warning over possible sectarian behaviour had the backing of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland.
Assistant Chief Constable John Neilson said: "Whilst the parade will have a major impact on traffic in the city centre, the main issue for the force and members of the public is the excessive drinking and public nuisance caused by those who follow the parade.
We do not wish anyone's enjoyment spoiled by the antics of boozed-up foul-mouthed followers
Ian Wilson
Grand Master of the Orange Order
"We want to make sure people can come into the city centre without too much disruption or feeling intimidated by excessive drunkenness and sectarian or disorderly behaviour.
"By all means follow the march, but note that drinking in public places is not allowed and officers will make full use of anti-social behaviour fixed penalty tickets to tackle the consumption of alcohol and urinating in public places."
Ian Wilson, Grand Master of the Orange Order, said he wanted spectators to "enjoy the music and the pageantry in a carnival atmosphere".
"We do not wish anyone's enjoyment spoiled by the antics of boozed-up foul-mouthed followers," he said.
"There is no place in our celebration for public drinking, abusive behaviour or offensive chants."
Now that there is some sort of lasting peace agreement in Northern Ireland isn't it about time these marches were stopped, all it does is continue to wind up those of a different religion. [disgust]
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 10:06
I know a lot of people who are the same religion, but it winds them up, too: no-one likes to be rudely awakened on a Sunday morning - no matter who it is.
Metalattakk
03-Jul-09, 10:27
Correct me if I'm wrong pepsi, but I hardly think there are Orange Order marchers tramping through the sleepy town of Hawick of a Sunday morning.
changilass
03-Jul-09, 10:33
I don't even think there is a lodge north of Iverness, so other than to stir trouble, what are your reasons for posting this here.
I am sure there must be some web sites closer to home that you could post this to.
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 10:42
Correct me if I'm wrong pepsi, but I hardly think there are Orange Order marchers tramping through the sleepy town of Hawick of a Sunday morning.
Am led to believe there is one, though I haven't seen, or heard, it yet, thankfully. I should also point out that I live in several places other than Hawick.
porshiepoo
03-Jul-09, 10:45
Amazing isn't it. Over 300 years have passed since the Battle of Boyne and we still settle everything with violence at the first opportunity.
There will no doubt be a degree of violence and drunkeness during these celebrations no matter how many pleas are made and there are still many people that see this as an opportunity to rouse those feelings of hatred.
The funny thing is that to William of orange the Battle was more about his ambition to hold the 3 crowns - England, Scotland & Ireland - than it was about keeping a Catholic off the throne. In fact most of Williams army were actually Dutch Catholic!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do we really need to remember and celebrate the pounding of the Catholics by the Protestants? Really?
Surely we should have moved on by now!
Let's not forgot that this revered William of Orange is the same guy that gave the order for Campbell of Glenlyon to slaughter all men, women & children under the age of 70, of the McDonalds of Glencoe, purely because he believed that they hadn't signed an oath of Allegience by a certain date.
Now that there is some sort of lasting peace agreement in Northern Ireland isn't it about time these marches were stopped, all it does is continue to wind up those of a different religion. [disgust]
It depends how you define "stoped" because every culture and religion has a right to express itself.
The Orange marches remember a battle fought at the end of the 1600's just as we march to remember the first and second world wars and celebrate Trafalger day or how Jews will march to remember what happened in WW2.
The orange marches went on long before the troubles of the 70's 80's and 90's and we should not just clump orange marches as part of the troubles just because it became more politically charged due to the flare up of violence.
Just as many Irish Catholics will march to remember who fought and died for thier cause Irish Protestants should also be able able to celebrate thoer past..despite the bigots that will jump onto the bandwagon and hurl abuse. With peace in Ireland as the decades pass the extreme bigotry will start to die out.
Amazing isn't it. Over 300 years have passed since the Battle of Boyne and we still settle everything with violence at the first opportunity.
There will no doubt be a degree of violence and drunkeness during these celebrations no matter how many pleas are made and there are still many people that see this as an opportunity to rouse those feelings of hatred.
The funny thing is that to William of orange the Battle was more about his ambition to hold the 3 crowns - England, Scotland & Ireland - than it was about keeping a Catholic off the throne. In fact most of Williams army were actually Dutch Catholic!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do we really need to remember and celebrate the pounding of the Catholics by the Protestants? Really?
Surely we should have moved on by now!
Let's not forgot that this revered William of Orange is the same guy that gave the order for Campbell of Glenlyon to slaughter all men, women & children under the age of 70, of the McDonalds of Glencoe, purely because he believed that they hadn't signed an oath of Allegience by a certain date.
As I said above..we celebrate battles fought long ago... the Americans celebrate the war of independence and the civil war. Infact every nation on earth does so why should protestants in Northern Ireland be any different?
They should be banned! Does nothing but stir up trouble and glorify things that should stay in the past.
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 11:26
It depends how you define "stoped" because every culture and religion has a right to express itself.
The Orange marches remember a battle fought at the end of the 1600's just as we march to remember the first and second world wars and celebrate Trafalger day or how Jews will march to remember what happened in WW2.
The orange marches went on long before the troubles of the 70's 80's and 90's and we should not just clump orange marches as part of the troubles just because it became more politically charged due to the flare up of violence.
Just as many Irish Catholics will march to remember who fought and died for thier cause Irish Protestants should also be able able to celebrate thoer past..despite the bigots that will jump onto the bandwagon and hurl abuse. With peace in Ireland as the decades pass the extreme bigotry will start to die out.
Can't say I've ever seen any trouble at a march for the remembrance of the World Wars, or for the Jews. Oh aye, and these said marches have never woken me up early on a Sunday when trying to get some shut-eye.
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 11:35
Some may or may not remember the Orange Order's attempts to reposition itself as the "family and tourist friendly" organisation about a year-and-a-half ago. Hilariously, they launched a 'superhero' who was, eventually, given the name Diamond Dan. Now that they had a name for their character, they fired on to produce everything from fridge magnets to Christmas cards and notebooks. What wasn't featured so prominently in the media coverage (and I don't even think it was picked up on here), was the fact that the Diamond Dan character was a rip-off from the work of a cartoonist from Essex called Dan Bailey. Without a hint of shame, the Orange Order were using a slightly altered version of an existing illustration without having any licence to do so.
Funnily enough, at the time, I thought that the OO had been unusually enterprising and got a professional outfit to give them a makeover. Little did we all know.
Rip-off Dan & Dan Bailey's original illustration...
Check for yourselves...
It depends how you define "stoped" because every culture and religion has a right to express itself.
The Orange marches remember a battle fought at the end of the 1600's just as we march to remember the first and second world wars and celebrate Trafalger day or how Jews will march to remember what happened in WW2.
The orange marches went on long before the troubles of the 70's 80's and 90's and we should not just clump orange marches as part of the troubles just because it became more politically charged due to the flare up of violence.
Just as many Irish Catholics will march to remember who fought and died for thier cause Irish Protestants should also be able able to celebrate thoer past..despite the bigots that will jump onto the bandwagon and hurl abuse. With peace in Ireland as the decades pass the extreme bigotry will start to die out.
well said.
Its not the marchers that cause trouble, its the idiots that use the marches as an excuse to hate anyone and everyone "different" to them.. and i mean that on both sides of the divide.
Ive obviously witnessed marches living in glasgow, and its the drunken/drugged/thuggish neds following the marches, or the ones taking offence at them that start the trouble. And i bet they dont even fully understand what the are supporting/offended by.
Is it just the Orange Marches you object to?
The Ancient Order of Hibernian is suggested by some to be the Catholic equivalent of the Orange Order. It also takes part in marches, although these are far fewer in number in Scotland than those which the Orange Order hold. These marches can also be scenes of sectarianism and verbal and physical abuse, and whilst the marchers have the same rights to parade as the Orange Order, they also have the same responsibilities.
But since neither of them are likely to be marching in this county who cares -
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 12:34
I've never been woken up by a Hibernian march, thankfully.
Who cares? Well, just because they don't happen in Caithness, doesn't mean it doesn't affect posters who don't happen to live in the motherland anymore.
porshiepoo
03-Jul-09, 13:07
As I said above..we celebrate battles fought long ago... the Americans celebrate the war of independence and the civil war. In fact every nation on earth does so why should protestants in Northern Ireland be any different?
I just do not understand the need to "celebrate" any battle or war based on religious belief.
These battles and the fights of one religion against another should have no place in society today and to "celebrate" them simply keeps the smouldering fires of hatred, intolerance and ignorance, burning wildly.
Societies tolerance and acceptance for all religious beliefs has supposedly improved over the centuries and if we want the world to be a more tolerant and unbiased place to raise our kids then personally I believe that "celebrations" of one religion murdering another, should not be encouraged.
As I said before William of Oranges only influence for this battle was to gain the 3 crowns, he used the 'no popery' chants of his people to incite a degree of support for his costly greed.
Perhaps the Protestant people should remember that it was a mainly Catholic Army that won the battle for them.
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 13:15
Showing at a high street or Catholic-dominated area near you soon, the new summer blockbuster...
I just do not understand the need to "celebrate" any battle or war based on religious belief.
These battles and the fights of one religion against another should have no place in society today and to "celebrate" them simply keeps the smouldering fires of hatred, intolerance and ignorance, burning wildly.
Societies tolerance and acceptance for all religious beliefs has supposedly improved over the centuries and if we want the world to be a more tolerant and unbiased place to raise our kids then personally I believe that "celebrations" of one religion murdering another, should not be encouraged.
As I said before William of Oranges only influence for this battle was to gain the 3 crowns, he used the 'no popery' chants of his people to incite a degree of support for his costly greed.
Perhaps the Protestant people should remember that it was a mainly Catholic Army that won the battle for them.
So is essence your saying you cant see why the event can be celebrated because it is accosiated with Religion... is that not discrimination in itself?
Your missing the point entierly though, the history of the battle and the politics involved are neither here nor there.... what is important to people who celebrate is what it now represents to them, and I would guess for Irish protestants it represents thier resistance from having thier religion oppressed.
Anyone who studies history of the time will know that the battle was never a straight catholic vs protestant fight.... just as our own Battle of Culloden was never a Scots Vs English fight but 90% of scots will tell you it was.
I think we as a people on the British mainland need to take a step back, get off our high horse and stop looking down our noses at N Ireland, Ireland had the tradgedy of being particioned (it prob had to to stop full scale cival war) and that particion has led to scars and division which is now thankfully being mended. Generations of people had to suffer years of violence on thier doorstep, abuse, segragation and fear of murders and bombings something we have no understanding of living in a place like Caithness.
Cut them some slack, both cathloic and protestant should be allowed to celebrate thier religion and remember thier respective historys and the battle of the boyne is THIER history... not ours to dictate.
And lets not forget, some of the people now who are working together to bring peace are themselves members of the Orange Order and its Catholic equilvolent.
They should be banned! Does nothing but stir up trouble and glorify things that should stay in the past.
A bit like a section of your football clubs support then lol ;)
I've never been woken up by a Hibernian march, thankfully.
Who cares? Well, just because they don't happen in Caithness, doesn't mean it doesn't affect posters who don't happen to live in the motherland anymore.
we will tell them to tip toe past you hoose then... take it youll no object to them marching then?? :lol:
Aaldtimer
03-Jul-09, 14:36
The words of Richard Harris the actor come to mind:-
There are too many saviours on my cross lending their blood to flood out my ballot-box with needs of their own.
Who put you there? Who told you that that was your place?
You carry me secretly naked in your hearts, and clothe me publicly in armour, saying "God is on our side,"
Yet I openly cry "Who is on My side? Who, tell Me, who?
You who buried your sons and crippled your fathers whilst you buried My Father in crippling His Son."
The antiquated Saxon sword, rusty in its scabbard of time, now rises.
You gave it cause in My name, bringing shame to the thorned head that once bled for your salvation.
I hear your cries in the far-off byways, and your mouth pointing north and south,
and my Calvary looms again, desperate in rebirth.
Your earth is partitioned but in contrition it is the partition in your hearts that you must abolish.
You nightly watchers of Gethsemane, who sat through my nightly trial delivering me from evil,
now, deserted, I watch you share your silver.
Your purse, rich in hate, bleeds my veins of love, shattering my bone in the dust of the Bogside and the Shankhill Road.
There is no issue stronger than the tissue of love,
no need as holy as the palm outstretched in the run of generosity, no monstrosity greater than the anger you inflict.
Who gave you the right to increase your fold while decreasing the pastures of My flock?
Who gave you the right? Who gave it to you, who? And in whose name do you fight?
I am not in heaven, I am here, hear Me.
I am with you, see Me, I am in you, feel Me,
I am of you, be Me, I am for you, need Me.
I am all mankind, only through kindness will you reach Me.
What masked and bannered men can rock the ark and navigate a course to their own anointed kingdom come?
Who sailed their captain to waters that they troubled in My font, sinking in the ignorant seas of prejudice?
There is no virgin willing to conceive in the heat of any bloody Sunday.
You children, lying in cries on Derry streets, pushing your innocence into the full-flushed face of Christian guns,
battling the blame on each other,
Do not grow tongues in your dying dumb wounds speaking My name.
I am not your prize in your death, you have exorcised Me in your game of politics.
Go home on your knees, and worship Me in any cloth, for I was never tailor-made.
And who told you I was? Who gave you the right to think it?
Take your beads in your crippled hands. Can you count My decades?
Take My love in your crippled hearts. Can you count the loss?
I am not orange, I am not green, I am a half-ripe fruit, needing both colors to grow into ripeness,
and shame on you to have withered my orchard!
I, in my poverty, alone and without trust, cry shame on you and shame on you again and again
for converting Me into a bullet and shooting Me into men's hearts.
The ageless legend of My trial grows old, and the youth of your pulse,
staggering shamelessly from barricade to grave,
filing in the book of history My needless death one April.
Let Me in My betrayal lie low in My grave, and you in your bitterness lie low in yours,
for our measurements grow strangely dissimilar.
Our Father, who art in Heaven, sullied be Thy Name!
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 15:38
we will tell them to tip toe past you hoose then... take it youll no object to them marching then?? :lol:
I couldn't care less who it was; anyone who wakens me up with a banging drum and section of creepy flutes at 8am in the morning is gonna get a mouthful.
It's that time of the year again, folks. I doubt you have the same problem in Caithness, but down my way, I get sick of being rudely awakened on a Sunday at 8am by these insensitive idiots every July. Be careful.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8131354.stm
."
Great reporting Pepsi, How will the Orange Marches wake you up on a Sunday????
They take part on a Saturday, hohummm [disgust]
I couldn't care less who it was; anyone who wakens me up with a banging drum and section of creepy flutes at 8am in the morning is gonna get a mouthful.
i feel that way about the crows that seem to revel in waking me up in the morning. Waking up to bird SONG is one thing, but to a bunch of crows squalking makes my blood boil... no wonder theyre called a murder of crows [evil]
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 15:59
Great reporting Pepsi, How will the Orange Marches wake you up on a Sunday????
They take part on a Saturday, hohummm [disgust]
Or any day of the week.
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 16:04
So is essence your saying you cant see why the event can be celebrated because it is accosiated with Religion... is that not discrimination in itself?
Your missing the point entierly though, the history of the battle and the politics involved are neither here nor there.... what is important to people who celebrate is what it now represents to them, and I would guess for Irish protestants it represents thier resistance from having thier religion oppressed.
Anyone who studies history of the time will know that the battle was never a straight catholic vs protestant fight.... just as our own Battle of Culloden was never a Scots Vs English fight but 90% of scots will tell you it was.
I think we as a people on the British mainland need to take a step back, get off our high horse and stop looking down our noses at N Ireland, Ireland had the tradgedy of being particioned (it prob had to to stop full scale cival war) and that particion has led to scars and division which is now thankfully being mended. Generations of people had to suffer years of violence on thier doorstep, abuse, segragation and fear of murders and bombings something we have no understanding of living in a place like Caithness.
Cut them some slack, both cathloic and protestant should be allowed to celebrate thier religion and remember thier respective historys and the battle of the boyne is THIER history... not ours to dictate.
And lets not forget, some of the people now who are working together to bring peace are themselves members of the Orange Order and its Catholic equilvolent.
My how time flies when you don't have to endure the sounds of their triumphant victory over the theory of evolution. If they want to celebrate murder, indeed let them walk the Queen's highway - the M8 is a good one. Flashman, you wouldn't happen to be a QC with muttonchop whiskers and a poor repetoire of songs, perchance? Last year's family parade saw just under a hundred people arrested - I can't remember even one person being arrested at a Remembrance march.
It would come as a refreshing novelty if org posters spent more time reading history and less condemning it.
The right of the Protestants of Ulster to hold what is theirs is at least as well established as that of any other modern state.
Anyone for Algeria? Or Israel? Or, come to that, the United States?
Metalattakk
03-Jul-09, 16:37
I couldn't care less who it was; anyone who wakens me up with a banging drum and section of creepy flutes at 8am in the morning is gonna get a mouthful.
Pepsi, maybe you should join in the parade. You make enough din banging that big drum of your own.
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 16:51
I like drums, that much is true. Those kindae drums, though, are for monkeys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq_Ku810Dfk&feature=related
My how time flies when you don't have to endure the sounds of their triumphant victory over the theory of evolution. If they want to celebrate murder, indeed let them walk the Queen's highway - the M8 is a good one. Flashman, you wouldn't happen to be a QC with muttonchop whiskers and a poor repetoire of songs, perchance? Last year's family parade saw just under a hundred people arrested - I can't remember even one person being arrested at a Remembrance march.
Of course not, but then Ireland has a troubled history hence the pent up feelings.
I'm sure certain marches in areas of the middle east get heated receptions and arrests due to the similer tensions there.
I'm not defending protestant bigots here and to try and make out I am is rather crass, but I do feel strongly that we should respect other cultures and what is important to them.
From a Republican point of view they resisted for 800 years against the peoples of the British Isles from interfering in thier country.
And still it seems we from this Island think we know whats best for the Irish
It's THIER history not your's, if they want to remember the Battle of the Boyne then it is every persons right to do so or not.
And if you understood my point you would know that the bigotry and violence is fuelled from the recent troubles, not from Orange Marches themselves which have gone on for hundreds of years.
So lets err away here from some silly tit for tat old firm minded debate because that's is what it is sounding like
Of course not, but then Ireland has a troubled history hence the pent up feelings.
I'm sure certain marches in areas of the middle east get heated receptions and arrests due to the similer tensions there.
I'm not defending protestant bigots here and to try and make out I am is rather crass, but I do feel strongly that we should respect other cultures and what is important to them.
From a Republican point of view they resisted for 800 years against the peoples of the British Isles from interfering in thier country.
And still it seems we from this Island think we know whats best for the Irish
It's THIER history not your's, if they want to remember the Battle of the Boyne then it is every persons right to do so or not.
And if you understood my point you would know that the bigotry and violence is fuelled from the recent troubles, not from Orange Marches themselves which have gone on for hundreds of years.
So lets err away here from some silly tit for tat old firm minded debate because that's is what it is sounding like
I think the last line here nails it.
Pepsi, get over it, there's always next season!;)
Amy-Winehouse
03-Jul-09, 17:37
A bit like a section of your football clubs support then lol ;)
Which one? the upside down banner holders that cant spell Celtic or those who regularly shout support for the P.I.R.A-?
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 17:51
Of course not, but then Ireland has a troubled history hence the pent up feelings.
I'm sure certain marches in areas of the middle east get heated receptions and arrests due to the similer tensions there.
I'm not defending protestant bigots here and to try and make out I am is rather crass, but I do feel strongly that we should respect other cultures and what is important to them.
From a Republican point of view they resisted for 800 years against the peoples of the British Isles from interfering in thier country.
And still it seems we from this Island think we know whats best for the Irish
It's THIER history not your's, if they want to remember the Battle of the Boyne then it is every persons right to do so or not.
And if you understood my point you would know that the bigotry and violence is fuelled from the recent troubles, not from Orange Marches themselves which have gone on for hundreds of years.
So lets err away here from some silly tit for tat old firm minded debate because that's is what it is sounding like
Do you know how much money it costs the tax payer to police the marches? Put it this way, when the police stung the lodge with their bill last year, they refused to pay it on account that they were marching the Queen's highway and therefore had to pay nothing.
I never mentioned anything to do with the Old Firm - your words.
northener
03-Jul-09, 17:53
It really doesn't take long, does it?
Mention Orange Day, NI, Cat'licks, Proddies and I will guarantee the pig-ugly faces of Celtic and Rangers 'supporters' will rise out of the medieval swamp that is the twisted Scottish view on religion and football.
By Christ, it's not often I can say the English hold the higher ground over the Scots, but when it comes to this backward, bigoted claptrap that links kicking a ball around to religious hatred, I can honestly say the Scots beat the English hands down.
Well done. As long as you allow mindless thugs to tag along on marches like this on both sides of the divide, then you will never be taken seriously by anyone.
Scotsmen and women ranting and spewing hatred on religious and political divide in Northern Ireland?
God give me strength.
the second coming
03-Jul-09, 17:58
I blame the wind farms myself, marching all over the country, spinning their bigotry.
The Pepsi Challenge
03-Jul-09, 18:02
It really doesn't take long, does it?
Mention Orange Day, NI, Cat'licks, Proddies and I will guarantee the pig-ugly faces of Celtic and Rangers 'supporters' will rise out of the medieval swamp that is the twisted Scottish view on religion and football.
By Christ, it's not often I can say the English hold the higher ground over the Scots, but when it comes to this backward, bigoted claptrap that links kicking a ball around to religious hatred, I can honestly say the Scots beat the English hands down.
Well done. As long as you allow mindless thugs to tag along on marches like this on both sides of the divide, then you will never be taken seriously by anyone.
Scotsmen and women ranting and spewing hatred on religious and political divide in Northern Ireland?
God give me strength.
Are we not allowed to have an opinion on Orange marches? Yes or no will do.
Do you know how much money it costs the tax payer to police the marches? Put it this way, when the police stung the lodge with their bill last year, they refused to pay it on account that they were marching the Queen's highway and therefore had to pay nothing.
I never mentioned anything to do with the Old Firm - your words.
Well you mentioned Donald Findlay so that made me think of and old firm argument.
But I can agree to differ, I can see where you are coming from and alot of it is true but I just dont think that tagging the whole concept of Orange Marches and commemorating the Battle of the Boyne into the bigoted and should be banned view is totally right. It is part of their history and traditions afterall.
It really doesn't take long, does it?
Mention Orange Day, NI, Cat'licks, Proddies and I will guarantee the pig-ugly faces of Celtic and Rangers 'supporters' will rise out of the medieval swamp that is the twisted Scottish view on religion and football.
By Christ, it's not often I can say the English hold the higher ground over the Scots, but when it comes to this backward, bigoted claptrap that links kicking a ball around to religious hatred, I can honestly say the Scots beat the English hands down.
Well done. As long as you allow mindless thugs to tag along on marches like this on both sides of the divide, then you will never be taken seriously by anyone.
Scotsmen and women ranting and spewing hatred on religious and political divide in Northern Ireland?
God give me strength.
But that's because you dont have the problem in England, we do in the west of Scotland so as the Pepsi chap points out it is open for discussion.
P.S Did 2 inner city areas in England not just elect 2 Fascist MEP's to the European Parliment? I dont think you can take such a high ground and lecture Scots when you have similer problems of your own to deal with.
Scotsmen and women ranting and spewing hatred on religious and political divide in Northern Ireland?
God give me strength.
Hear Hear Northener, I have never understood that type of bigotry, I am by my parents choice a lapsed Presbyterian, I support my Local Leith football team, who just happen to have been started by a catholic priest back in 1885, ....So what!!!! my sons are Church of Scotland laddies, and are both fervent Hibbies, ....again so what!!! There are as many Presbyterians supporting the Hibs as there are Catholics....again so what.
To echo your words Northerner......."Give me Strength"
porshiepoo
03-Jul-09, 19:42
[quote=Flashman;569208]So is essence your saying you cant see why the event can be celebrated because it is accosiated with Religion... is that not discrimination in itself?
That's not what I was saying.
300 years later and this world is still suffering murder and terrorist attacks based on religious beliefs - or at least backed up by their supposed religious beliefs / destinies.
What I am asking is what have we learnt? Nothing!
Your missing the point entierly though, the history of the battle and the politics involved are neither here nor there.... what is important to people who celebrate is what it now represents to them, and I would guess for Irish protestants it represents thier resistance from having thier religion oppressed.Is it? Is it really? I believe that many many people "celebrate" it as a way of rubbing it in the faces of Catholics and hoping that it will incite some kind of grievance. Cynical, maybe, but there you have it.
I understand remembering our history but I do not understanding "celebrating" it's murders.
Anyone who studies history of the time will know that the battle was never a straight catholic vs protestant fight.... just as our own Battle of Culloden was never a Scots Vs English fight but 90% of scots will tell you it was.For William it certainly wasn't.
However for the Protestants of this country t most certainly was. The deposed King could not be allowed to regain his throne purely because he was Catholic - which in fact was the reason he was deposed in the first pace. James did not hide his Catholic tendencies, in fact refused to, and this just wasn't acceptable.
I think we as a people on the British mainland need to take a step back, get off our high horse and stop looking down our noses at N Ireland, Ireland had the tradgedy of being particioned (it prob had to to stop full scale cival war) and that particion has led to scars and division which is now thankfully being mended. Generations of people had to suffer years of violence on thier doorstep, abuse, segragation and fear of murders and bombings something we have no understanding of living in a place like Caithness.I don't look down my nose at them at all, so please do not judge me.
I am simply stating an opinion.
a couple of years ago I was visitng Edinburgh.
Arranged to meet pal and her very elderly mother at the Meadows as there was a food and beverage event (meant we could sit, eat and drink without goikng too far in the pleasant sunshine)
I walked from Lothian Road side to meet them at entrance to park from old ERI - as well as an extremely well advertised food function there was a very large orange parade commencing on Meadows.
Met friends but due to crowds for orange walk could not reach food venue.
I told the bold step and walked the frail 89 year old lady and my terminally ill pal through the marching orange parade to the relative safety of a coffee shop at the side of the old ERI.
What abuse followed my move - I was threatened with all sorts by even the little wee tots aged two or three all dressed up in their blue and orange, and more serious threats by the adults.
There had obviously not been proper planning gone into holding two such events so close together.
I have seen too many orange marches - both in N Ireland and Scotland, I certainly do not understand why this type of march is still permitted - they should be stopped and hopefully with no stoking the fire may die.
I grew up in the West Coast of Scotland but didn't have religion forced on me by my parents, though because I attended a 'Proddie' school I was expected by my peers to hate Catholics and all that the Catholics supported, and I've no idea how many times I was asked to join the local Orange Lodge. The people who wanted me to join had no more knowledge of the Irish troubles than I did, which wasn't much....yet because they grew up with an inbred hatred of Catholics from their parents it was a logical step for them to join the Orange Lodge. I know I have Irish ancestry but from which religion I have no idea, but regardless, why should I be expected to hate people I don't know? Even more so, something at the time I never said aloud, I actually did a bit of research on the Irish troubles and found myself siding with the Catholics!
I don't care how people want to dress it up, being a member of the Orange Lodge entails being a Rangers supporting anti-Catholic. I've seen with my own eyes someone stabbed because of their religion, I've seen someone get the thick end of a pool cue over their head because of what they supported and I've seen battles many times between rival football 'fans', all of which disgusts me. Someone mentioned in an earlier post about the march being a tradition, well let me tell you friend, times change and people move on, and the Orange march is one tradition that belongs in the past. Even now with peace in N.I., there are still pubs in my home town I won't go into because they are known to be either Rangers or Celtic pubs, in other words, they are frequented by people who refuse to move on. I want no part in it. [disgust]
I agree whole-heartedly with Northener's post.
Amy-Winehouse
03-Jul-09, 21:38
The O/P wants Orange Marches banned- fair enough, I can see his valid point, they do upset a lot of people & cause a load of bother.But Does the O/p want the little publicised Republican marches banned from the streets of this country also?
Why are they allowed? supporting terrorism shouldnt be imo whether its UVF RHC UDA UFF INLA RIRA PIRA or any muslem or Islamic nut job splinter groups. Is it because this is a country of free speech & `Many culture`s`? Even if we dont like what we hear?
It really doesn't take long, does it?
Mention Orange Day, NI, Cat'licks, Proddies and I will guarantee the pig-ugly faces of Celtic and Rangers 'supporters' will rise out of the medieval swamp that is the twisted Scottish view on religion and football.
By Christ, it's not often I can say the English hold the higher ground over the Scots, but when it comes to this backward, bigoted claptrap that links kicking a ball around to religious hatred, I can honestly say the Scots beat the English hands down.
Well done. As long as you allow mindless thugs to tag along on marches like this on both sides of the divide, then you will never be taken seriously by anyone.
Scotsmen and women ranting and spewing hatred on religious and political divide in Northern Ireland?
God give me strength.
England has a HUGE hooligan element within its football leagues. There has also been recent problems with racial and homophobic chanting during some english games. Not to mention dodgey transfers.
Surely arranged riots are more harmful than singing silly songs.
Or maybe not.
The O/P wants Orange Marches bannedThe O/P is IMHO a wind up merchant of the lowest degree, and we Orgers and our responses, will appear under his pen name in some publication or another.
Amy-Winehouse
04-Jul-09, 07:49
The O/P is IMHO a wind up merchant of the lowest degree, and we Orgers and our responses, will appear under his pen name in some publication or another.
I know that, hes a journalist- what else would you expect from him?
Mrs Bucket
04-Jul-09, 08:16
I don't even think there is a lodge north of Iverness, so other than to stir trouble, what are your reasons for posting this here.
I am sure there must be some web sites closer to home that you could post this to.
Thats what I was thinking.Well said.
pinotnoir
04-Jul-09, 09:37
Is there a tradition in Orangism, historically, to be anti-Highlander?
Metalattakk
04-Jul-09, 09:48
The O/P is IMHO a wind up merchant of the lowest degree, and we Orgers and our responses, will appear under his pen name in some publication or another.
I doubt he'd use our responses in any publication - some daft, vaguely-football-related messageboard perhaps. All he's posting this for is to feed his own deep-rooted feeling that all Protestants/Rangers fans are bad people.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Jul-09, 10:01
Some people's posts have made for interesting reading, some others, not. I never mentioned football or Rangers; I merely suggested that the Orange Order are a particularly nasty group who like waking people up. For the record, Metalattakk, not all Rangers/ protestants are bad people - of course not. Some of them are our brothers, sisters, friends etc. Am not sure if you're a protestant, nor do I care. Am pretty sure you're a Rangers fan, but so what, either? You seem an a'rite dude to me. Nae beef.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Jul-09, 10:05
Hear Hear Northener, I have never understood that type of bigotry, I am by my parents choice a lapsed Presbyterian, I support my Local Leith football team, who just happen to have been started by a catholic priest back in 1885, ....So what!!!! my sons are Church of Scotland laddies, and are both fervent Hibbies, ....again so what!!! There are as many Presbyterians supporting the Hibs as there are Catholics....again so what.
To echo your words Northerner......."Give me Strength"
The Hibs have done their level best in recent years to virtually eradicate their Irish roots, that's for sure. In fact, they'd be happy if an Irish tricolour (from the home end[s]) never flew from the stadium ever again. They're Hibernian in name only.
The O/P wants Orange Marches banned- fair enough, I can see his valid point, they do upset a lot of people & cause a load of bother.But Does the O/p want the little publicised Republican marches banned from the streets of this country also?
Why are they allowed? supporting terrorism shouldnt be imo whether its UVF RHC UDA UFF INLA RIRA PIRA or any muslem or Islamic nut job splinter groups. Is it because this is a country of free speech & `Many culture`s`? Even if we dont like what we hear?
Exactly, what kind of country would we be living in if it banned them... certianly not a Democracy which protects the rights of it's minority people.
Hate them or love them we have no right to ban them, simple as that. This is a country which values freedom, freedom to have opinion and freedom to protest.
Again i'll stress the need to remember what the people of Ireland have gone through.... which we cant even BEGIN to imagine what it would be like
And I'll again stress the need to stop associating mindless bigotry, especially west of scotland based bigotry with a countries history and traditions.
Someone said earlier that The Battle of the Boyne and Orange marches should be left in the past. But I say what right do we have to say what they cant and should remember... we dont tell Americans what they should value, we dont tell Frenchmen what history they should remember
So why do we feel the need to tell the Irish, they may be only across the water abut they are IRISH! A distinct people in thier own right with their own history and traditions that trancend the mindless bigotry that you see in the West Coast of Scotland.
I'll say again that the type of people that achieved peace in Northern Ireland with the British Goverment were the people who were members of organisations which are being banded about here.
Now those organisations may be bigoted, but they worked together for the greater good. BANNING things, DICTATING to people what they should believe, and telling people in a minority to forget parts of thier history is the exact thing that causes VIOLENCE.
The issue here is not about bigotry, it's not about Celtic and bloody rangers, its not about was the battle of the boyne right or wrong.
It's about DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM, Sometimes we see things we dont like, hear things we dont like... but thats because this is FREE country.
We as a nation sometimes have to bite our lips and put up with things we dont like in the name of living in a free and Democratic country.
A country that bans things because certain people dont want to see it, hear it, or admit that there is a problem with it is a country that is not worth living in in my opinion.
Metalattakk
04-Jul-09, 10:14
Some people's posts have made for interesting reading, some others, not. I never mentioned football or Rangers; I merely suggested that the Orange Order are a particularly nasty group who like waking people up.
"are a particularly nasty group who like waking people up"... ROFL.
For the record, Metalattakk, not all Rangers/ protestants are bad people - of course not. Some of them are our brothers, sisters, friends etc. Am not sure if you're a protestant, nor do I care. Am pretty sure you're a Rangers fan, but so what, either? You seem an a'rite dude to me. Nae beef.
So when you label all Protestants/Rangers fans as inbred bigots, bent on violence and intolerance, you don't mean me? Woo-hoo! I'm one of the good ones then! \o/
Oh, I am so happy to have made your 'nice guy' list. Somehow I suddenly feel exonerated, cleansed of all my sins, and those of all my fellow Protestant/Rangers fans. A huge cloud has lifted from over me, and the light is streaming into my life. I can see! I can see the light!
Jesus, give me strength...
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Jul-09, 10:35
So these marchers are there out of an excess of progressive and humanist sensibility? Their deep concern for the oppressed Catholics of this world hasn't particularly shone through in the past. I bet you can see their Amnesty International badges.
The truth of the matter is that they are bitter people because they've been fed lies, and that really the march only stems from a severe inferiority complex, and one that only perpetuates the bitterness in a vicious cycle. Yes, they are idiots. But so are a lot of people. And yes, they do spew hatred, but most of them don't have a clue what they're saying, and the ones that do couldn't back it up with a paper bag.
Banning, however, is a big step. And comparing VE celebrations to the OO marches is bit of a leap. They are marching to celebrate the defeat of King James, goading anyone who is catholic by marching past the chapels, singing songs about being up to their knees in Fenian blood. There are people alive who commemorate the loss of their fallen comrades, it happens one day of the year and it is not the tub thumping, hate-filled occasions that an OO march bestows. If you can compare the two - I'd sooner compare an Orange march to the KKK - then you have no idea what one of the marches are like.
I'd simply be happy if they took some responsibility for the fall-out that occurs as a result of their activities. In a free country, they've every right to have their opinion and even their wee trundle round town, but if they create and indeed encourage chaos, it's their problem, and they should be liable for that. The Tour De France, Republican Marches, and other events, have to take responsibility for their event and what happens around it, and if they can't, well, they shouldn't get the license to march - or have an event.
Cultural? Aye, am sure foreign tourists to Scotland will return to their respective countries and tell of stories of cultural excellence, wrapped up in a fantastic party atmosphere bedecked in crimpolene: in all its regal finery, and all to musical accompaniment. One marcher (last year) had a T-shirt that said, and I quote: "Our message is simple. Where our music is welcome, we will play loud. Where it is not welcome, we will play louder."
I've lived in Edinburgh (and Glasgow) for almost 15 years and I've seen and heard enough to form an opinion. I've seen them come into the closes and gardens of my friends and urinate all over it. I remember my best pal's grandmother being hit with a marcher's mace because she had the audacity to attempt to get some bread and milk from the shop across the road. A close friend of mine was stabbed by a marcher for merely having a Republic of Ireland accent. I've had first had experience of these clowns attempt to intimidate me, my family and friends, verbally and physically. Is that enough reason to despise them?
If you have lived in Edinburgh for so long why then do you not condemn the James Connolly marches that used to be held annually in Edinburgh, James Connolly was born in Edinburgh of Irish potato famine refugees parents, and became an active Irish Nationalist, and was shot by the British Army.IMO, they were just as noisey and as full of vile bigotry as any Orange parade ( for those who wish to see an example of this just see Youtube James Connolly)
I was comparing it to VE day in historical terms rather the modern day terms, all great Victories are celebrated and with regards to VE day it is still very poignont to us not only because of the nature of the war but because we still have people alive who fought and lost people to the war.
Im sure in the years after the Battle of the Boyne it was not all pomp and circumstance as people would of remembered kin and loved ones who had fallen.
It would actually be intresting to see how VE day is remembered in 100, 200 years time. If Britain was pherhaps a loser in a great war then maybe it would become a celebration of glorys past, a symbol of British defiance.
You see different generations have different views depending on the times they live in. And long forgotten and long past wars tend to become glorified rather then remembered more somberly with the passing of generations.
I remember my Grandfather who fought in Africa during the war said that one day the World Wars would just become remembered in the way we now remember Trafalger and Waterloo.
I agree on the fact that orange marches cause trouble, and certainly they should be localised and not allowed to march through catholic areas were they will incite hatred.
Also it is a shame on that we even have them in this country, it shows you that we have allowed another countries conflict to spill over into our own society and we have turned a blind eye for too long.
But as you say banning them is a big step, and it's a step which I feel would be in the wrong direction and against our core values as a nation. We need to deal with it just like they are dealing with it in NI.... banning things wont solve anything, infact it will prob make it worse.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Jul-09, 11:05
If you have lived in Edinburgh for so long why then do you not condemn the James Connolly marches that used to be held annually in Edinburgh, James Connolly was born in Edinburgh of Irish potato famine refugees parents, and became an active Irish Nationalist, and was shot by the British Army.IMO, they were just as noisey and as full of vile bigotry as any Orange parade ( for those who wish to see an example of this just see Youtube James Connolly)
I caught the tail-end of a James Connolly once, golach: I was walking up Victoria Street as they passed down the Grassmarket towards King Stables Road. I couldn't hear much noise emanating from them and in my experience, they've never relieved themselves in front of my house, attacked my friends, nor intimidated me, either. If you have any evidence to the contrary (from your own experience) I'd gladly listen, for as I just stated in an earlier post: "Republican Marches, and other events, have to take responsibility for their event and what happens around it, and if they can't, well, they shouldn't get the license to march - or have an event."
Far as am aware, the James Connolly march is a celebration of an Edinburgh man who helped give birth to the Irish Republic; a man determined to smash the placard of sectarianism and those often cemented perceptions of class division; and, like yourself, golach, also a Hibs supporter.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Jul-09, 11:23
Thats what I was thinking.Well said.
Here's an insight... wait for it... some people from Caithness actually live in regions of Scotland where this is a problem. And no lodges or masonic halls north of Inverness? Now there is a laugh.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Jul-09, 11:36
As much as a I dislike Orange marches, one still must try and retain a sense of humour...
Amy-Winehouse
04-Jul-09, 12:21
Can I ask Pepsi, are you a catholic? & in the year 2009, how do Catholics feel oppressed? Just wondered because it seems that R.C`s have all the top positions of power in Scotland. Politics, Press & Televison
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Jul-09, 12:35
I don't mind answering that at all, Amy.
Am not a Catholic, as in pertaining to the Catholic church. I am, however, catholic in, that, I have wide-ranging tastes and interests, and sympathetic.
I'm not a Catholic but I have alot of respect for the way the modern Catholic Church conducts itself
The seem to have opinions and guidance on issues that effect people and this is something which the Protestant Churches seem to lack.
Im a Catholic, my wifes a Proddie. My kids are neither.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Jul-09, 16:13
Not just a West Coast thang: http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/fife-free-press-news/Opinion-Why-was-Kirkcaldy39s-Orange.5422348.jp
northener
04-Jul-09, 16:41
P.S Did 2 inner city areas in England not just elect 2 Fascist MEP's to the European Parliment? I dont think you can take such a high ground and lecture Scots when you have similer problems of your own to deal with.
What the hell has that got to do with people taking up religious and political cudgels and linking it irreversibly to two Scots football teams?
There are Racists and Fascists all over the UK, agreed.
But I don't get asked questions about which football team (out of a choice of two) I support - or blunt attempts to find out if i went to a Protestant or Catholic scool so some narrow-minded cretin can pigeonhole me anywhere else in Britain.
There is no 'similar' problem in England or Wales. Period.
Get over it and join the C21st.
northener
04-Jul-09, 16:48
England has a HUGE hooligan element within its football leagues. There has also been recent problems with racial and homophobic chanting during some english games. Not to mention dodgey transfers.
Surely arranged riots are more harmful than singing silly songs.
Or maybe not.
Dogman, yes, there are problems in English football.
But if you support a certain team in England or Wales, you will not be expected to be hate a certain religion because of it.
You will not be expected to rally to political causes that go back 300 years and you will not be expected to show support for Sectarian violence against supporters of 'another' team.
You will not be expected to carry exclusively the Union Flag or the Irish tricolour.
And that is a huge chasm between Scottish football and England/Welsh football.
Thank God.
What the hell has that got to do with people taking up religious and political cudgels and linking it irreversibly to two Scots football teams?
There are Racists and Fascists all over the UK, agreed.
But I don't get asked questions about which football team (out of a choice of two) I support - or blunt attempts to find out if i went to a Protestant or Catholic scool so some narrow-minded cretin can pigeonhole me anywhere else in Britain.
There is no 'similar' problem in England or Wales. Period.
Get over it and join the C21st.
This post has nothing to do with Football, it is about Orange Marches.
Your post sounded as if you think the English have no issues with religious intolerance and that is why I pointed out your countries recent sending of too very intolerant politicians to represent the UK in Brussels. Two people that certainly do discriminate against other religions... bigotry is not the exclusive domain of Catholic and Protestants.
Im not having a go, just your claim that England has some sort of higher ground on the issue I feel is a bit too wide of a statement.
Mrs Bucket
04-Jul-09, 20:30
Is there a tradition in Orangism, historically, to be anti-Highlander?
I had to read that a few times Orangeism that is I had my letters mixed up my g's and a's
Nowt wrong with an Orange march, If your tolerant you let it pass you by if your not then you jump on the org and rant about it!!!!;)
My parents were married in an orange lodge, my Dad,his dad and so on were all members.Most of my dads family are either in them or play in a flute band.
There not "Bigotted" they are just proud of who they are and where they come from.
There is a difference between Pride and Bigotry,it just depends if you are blinkered and cant see the difference.
I would rather attend an orange march which prides itself on "Britishness"than attend a March from a republican group who are Anti-British in our country which just so happens to be Britain!!!
Didnt know that Hawick was the Hub of Orangeism? Larkhall maybe but the borders? Thats near Engerlund isnt it?
As another poster pointed out we dont have them up here so whats the point in complaining about it?
I will have my own little Orange Walk on the 12th-To the pub for a wee dram!!![lol]And if any of my Catholic buddies are there I will buy them a dram to prove my tolerance!!!
The truth of the matter is that they are bitter people because they've been fed lies,
Can you show me where the Battle of Boyne didnt happen then?Was it a lie?
You say they have been fed lies? Have they been reading your paper then!!!!![lol]
The Pepsi Challenge
05-Jul-09, 10:00
hotrod, I managed to take a photo of you flying in from Caithness to join your brethren yesterday :)
hotrod, I managed to take a photo of you flying in from Caithness to join your brethren yesterday :)
Thanx for that, wondered who the "pap" was who was follow following me!!!;)
Mrs Bucket
05-Jul-09, 11:49
Here's an insight... wait for it... some people from Caithness actually live in regions of Scotland where this is a problem. And no lodges or masonic halls north of Inverness? Now there is a laugh.
would you like a large wooden spoon? but then you are managing very well without one.
The Pepsi Challenge
05-Jul-09, 12:35
thanx for that, wondered who the "pap" was who was follow following me!!!;)
.
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...:
...:-
...:-)
The real separatists in Ireland in 1910-14 were the Orangemen and the Ulster Unionists.Connoly and Pearse and the rest were late-comers to physical force nationalism.
Aaldtimer
06-Jul-09, 03:11
Oh Bejaysus Rich, don't even go there!:eek:
weeboyagee
06-Jul-09, 15:30
The Orange marches remember a battle fought at the end of the 1600's just as we march to remember the first and second world wars and celebrate Trafalger day or how Jews will march to remember what happened in WW2.
No they don't.
They celebrate in the same manner as Scots would marching down the Mall with flags with various crests, all formal and the year "1314" painted on them. They'd put up with that right? Wouldn't they?
Yip - I thought not.
WBG :cool:
No they don't.
They celebrate in the same manner as Scots would marching down the Mall with flags with various crests, all formal and the year "1314" painted on them. They'd put up with that right? Wouldn't they?
Yip - I thought not.
WBG :cool:
And if we Scots did choose to celebrate 1314 in that manner why would that be a fault?!? lol!!!!
And who is this royal "they" you talk about that would hound us out if we did so?
Loads of ex patriate Scots celebrate Scottish things all over the world.. One of the biggest exports from Scotland organisation wise is Scottish Rite Freemasonry which march in towns and cities all across the world but in paticular North America and ex colonies.
Also getting back to the point of peacefull Orange Marches, I believe in places where there has been Irish Immigration like the United States and Canada these Orange marches go by peacefully.
Which just goes to show that the REAL underlying problem comes more from not only the recent troubles but from basic mindless base bigotry and a lack of education about history in this country.
Blaming it on one institution is pointless and sure if a march is going to cause violence then reroute or ban but banning thier right to march on the basis that thier history is now irrelavant is even more pointless.
northener
06-Jul-09, 20:15
..........
Also getting back to the point of peacefull Orange Marches, I believe in places where there has been Irish Immigration like the United States and Canada these Orange marches go by peacefully.
Which just goes to show that the REAL underlying problem comes more from not only the recent troubles but from basic mindless base bigotry and a lack of education about history in this country.
Hit the nail on the head there.
Blaming it on one institution is pointless and sure if a march is going to cause violence then reroute or ban but banning thier right to march on the basis that thier history is now irrelavant is even more pointless.
Absolutely
northener
06-Jul-09, 20:20
No they don't.
They celebrate in the same manner as Scots would marching down the Mall with flags with various crests, all formal and the year "1314" painted on them. They'd put up with that right? Wouldn't they?
Yip - I thought not.
WBG :cool:
I thought that already happened. Anyway, I wouldn't see a problem with it.
There's certainly plenty who still blather on about it...oddly a lot more since a certain Australian painted his face blue.;)
The Pepsi Challenge
07-Jul-09, 06:45
Orange-sponsored Formula 1 car for next Great British Grand Prix...
Amy-Winehouse
12-Jul-09, 01:33
In case you have all forgotten, Happy 12Th of July Orgers.
The glorious 12th hath arrived for the 319th time so lets wind up the Pepsi & have a great day wherever we are .
Been at work today and a Rangers fan was having a dig at a Celtic fan about a battle that happened a few hundred years ago. Theyve both lived in Barrow for over 25 years. Unbelievable.:eek:
The Pepsi Challenge
13-Jul-09, 04:25
In case you have all forgotten, Happy 12Th of July Orgers.
The glorious 12th hath arrived for the 319th time so lets wind up the Pepsi & have a great day wherever we are .
Rest assure, you have - and never will - manage to wind me up, Amy :)
Incidentally, how many Orangemen does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They all live in perpetual darkness.
Never underestimate the opposition Pepsi;)
Amy-Winehouse
13-Jul-09, 10:27
Rest assure, you have - and never will - manage to wind me up, Amy :)
Incidentally, how many Orangemen does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They all live in perpetual darkness.
I dont think your as untouchable as you think.
David Banks
13-Jul-09, 11:17
. . . I moved to Edinburgh when I was 18. A couple of years later, I was assaulted by a bunch of hooligans on Princes St about 10pm on a Friday nicht - and they were singing about the battle of the Boyne. I think that gang called themselves 'Mental Drylaw.'
I'm trying to stay away from the related subject of fitba' in the south of Scotland.
I still don't get it. A bunch of people get together and march up and down streets with the single aim of being able to express that they "hate Roman Catholics."
How otherwise (apparently) sane people can expend such hatred and with such vehemence as orangemen just boggles my mind.
"Get over it" or "get a life" or "do something constructive" or "shut the heck up" or "try doing an unexpected act of kindness" all come to mind, with minor variations.
That maybe because your "perception" is different from the reality David. Orangism has nothing to do with hating catholics.
Rest assure, you have - and never will - manage to wind me up, Amy :)
Incidentally, how many Orangemen does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They all live in perpetual darkness.
Whats the difference between Orange and Ginger then?;)
None. They all live in perpetual darkness.[lol]
The Pepsi Challenge
14-Jul-09, 10:14
Whats the difference between Orange and Ginger then?;)
None. They all live in perpetual darkness.[lol]
More racism. Who'd 'av thunk it.
Metalattakk
14-Jul-09, 12:32
You call that racism, pepsi? :eek:
"Is it 'cos you is a ginga?"
[lol]
Amy-Winehouse
14-Jul-09, 22:19
You call that racism, pepsi? :eek:
"Is it 'cos you is a ginga?"
[lol]
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
rest assure, you have - and never will - manage to wind me up, amy :)
incidentally, how many orangemen does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They all live in perpetual darkness.
like it..like it..well done.;)
The Pepsi Challenge
18-Jul-09, 14:12
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Sorry, Amy, but you'll have to try much, much harder am afraid. Better luck next time, old bird. :)
Amy-Winehouse
18-Jul-09, 16:29
Sorry, Amy, but you'll have to try much, much harder am afraid. Better luck next time, old bird. :)
You replied hahaha its working:Razz
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