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View Full Version : Proposed Thurso Stocked Fishery, Please Survey!



locini
30-Jun-09, 20:34
Hi All,

http://www.highlandfishery.co.uk

Any comments, good or bad, all appreciated, please give a couple min's of your time to complete the online survey.

Thanks in advance.

locini
01-Jul-09, 20:31
Thanks to all of you that took the survey, has definately helped us to guage what exactly people are after. :lol:

I will keep the survey open for the next few days, just incase there are any others wanting to take it.

We will be sure to keep you up to date with any progress, either on here or via the link above.

Thanks again all.

George Brims
01-Jul-09, 21:31
Please DO NOT stock any waters in Caithness with non-native species. Someone will then transfer them to other bodies of water, and we will have another ecological disaster on our hands.

Personally I don't see any demand for what you're proposing given the number of fine lochs in Caithness.

locini
01-Jul-09, 22:38
Please DO NOT stock any waters in Caithness with non-native species. Someone will then transfer them to other bodies of water, and we will have another ecological disaster on our hands.

Personally I don't see any demand for what you're proposing given the number of fine lochs in Caithness.


George,

I off course respect your opinion and have definitely taken it on board, I however do have some points of my own for you to consider.

In my responses I have assumed you are speaking about Coarse fish.

1) The proposed pond has no inlet or outlet into any natural rivers, lochs, streams or body's of water, but is fed from a natural below ground source. This obviously makes it impossible for any fish to escape to local waters unaided.

2) The proposed fishery (if coarse fish are stocked) will of course have very strict rules and consequences for anyone that was to remove species of coarse fish from the premises. If coarse fish are stocked they will be strictly catch and release only. Period... How we enforce this is yet to be decided, but CCTV might be an option.

3) We must remember that the carp is an ancestor of our good old goldfish! Goldfish were originally domesticated from the Prussian carp which is in fact native to Asia. And come in a wide variety of sizes, varieties, hardiness and are very readily available. I think there is as much chance if not more of someone dropping an old unwanted goldfish into our native waters, than a sport fisherman deliberately breaking rules to release a fishery fish, into a local body of water, to achieve what, exactly?

4) Coarse fish in Scotland are in fact indigenous and can be found in lists of waters around our country, they are in fact very rarely heard of because they are very rarely fished for. I have pasted a few links that I came across when doing the homework for myself.

http://www.sfca.co.uk/policy/ifmrwpresentation.htm (http://www.sfca.co.uk/policy/ifmrwpresentation.htm)

http://www.nnh.co.uk/highland-coarse/ (http://www.nnh.co.uk/highland-coarse/)

To answer your last comment, I completely agree that Caithness is, absolutely brimming with excellent and beautiful lochs, with lots of beautiful fish and have enjoyed fishing them myself for years.

I am merely asking whether there would be the demand for something new and different, giving anglers, who wish, a bit of variety?:Razz

slinky
01-Jul-09, 23:01
i think its a great idea and so do most fishermen i know

weedonald
02-Jul-09, 06:16
I agree with George..Here in British Columbia species introduced from other parts have caused havoc among native species, just so anglers can have some variety.

http://www.geog.ubc.ca/biodiversity/efauna/documents/FRESHWATERFISHINTRODUCEDSPECIESMcPhail2008.pdf

I am heading to the west coast of Vancouver Island for a few days fishing and see if the tricks I learned with a bamboo pole and some sheep wool for a fly still work, it did at Thurso East many years ago.

sassylass
02-Jul-09, 16:47
I agree with George..Here in British Columbia species introduced from other parts have caused havoc among native species, just so anglers can have some variety.

http://www.geog.ubc.ca/biodiversity/efauna/documents/FRESHWATERFISHINTRODUCEDSPECIESMcPhail2008.pdf

I am heading to the west coast of Vancouver Island for a few days fishing and see if the tricks I learned with a bamboo pole and some sheep wool for a fly still work, it did at Thurso East many years ago.

photos, weedonald, please we want photos!

youoldduffer
02-Jul-09, 17:30
Personally I don't see any demand for what you're proposing given the number of fine lochs in Caithness.

Thats very true there are but how many have disabled access. Personaly i think its a good idea whether its stocked with trout or coarse fish.

Geo
02-Jul-09, 18:53
The pond doesn't look that big. Just wondered what size it is?

onlyme
02-Jul-09, 19:32
i also agree with george this has the potential to destroy the natural eccoligy of the lochs we have in the county
all you need is one idiot to catch and keep a couple of non native species and releace them into our lochs and thats the destroyed for good
keep your course fish out of caithness

Jonaleth Irenicus
02-Jul-09, 20:44
i also agree with george this has the potential to destroy the natural eccoligy of the lochs we have in the county
all you need is one idiot to catch and keep a couple of non native species and releace them into our lochs and thats the destroyed for good
keep your course fish out of caithness

A fishery stocking coarse fish has NO potential to destroy the ecology of its surroundings. The people that fish it do, but if someone was that desperate to introduce species to lochs they could quite easily import fish from elsewhere in the country and doubtless would have done so by now.

locini
02-Jul-09, 22:43
A fishery stocking coarse fish has NO potential to destroy the ecology of its surroundings. The people that fish it do, but if someone was that desperate to introduce species to lochs they could quite easily import fish from elsewhere in the country and doubtless would have done so by now.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there Jonaleth...

I don't think any anglers, would wish to destroy the local fish populations as they would be shooting themselves and others massively in the foot!

Why would anyone wish to carry out such a activity?? I see absolute no benefit to the individual what so ever? I don't understand?

And like you also said anyone of that mind and wishing to do so could easily do such a thing right this second (although illegally) and release whatever fish they wanted into our local waters. As getting non native fish these days is as easy as pie. Where's the nearest pet shop?

Like I have also said if we were to stock coarse fish we would definitely be implementing controls to stop any such fish being removed from the facility. A heck of a lot more controls than that of fish suppliers, would implement to a paying customer.

I therefore do not see how such a facility would pose any risk whatsoever to local wildlife, if anything we will be improving an old unused nearly desolate pond, and allowing the public and local wildlife to enjoy it as much as we will...

I would like to re-iterate to everyone that we have yet to decide what species of fish it is we are going to stock. We have by all means not decided to go down the coarse fish route, which im guessing by the responses, regarding non native species is the general feeling we will be doing. Which is not right.

I can say, going by the poll (as per tonight) of over thirty local opinions a rather significant percentage would like to see such a facility opening (just under 80%) this obviously fills us with confidence, in our new venture, however I must also say that out of that 80%, a split of 53% to 30% wish to see a trout game fishery rather than a coarse fishery. Invaluable Results like this was the exact reason we started such a poll.

To answer Geo : Yes you are absolutely right, the current pond is too small about (80m long by around 20m wide, over 20 foot deep and full of weed!!) It is just the way it sits just now. If you were to read the website, we already realise this, and will be carrying out a lot of excavation and water work prior to even looking at stocking any fish, we have 5 acres to play with.

I would like to thank everyone who has contributed once more, with either positive or negative comments, as this is exactly the sort of views and opinions we were after.

Best Regards

Mystical Potato Head
02-Jul-09, 23:05
i also agree with george this has the potential to destroy the natural eccoligy of the lochs we have in the county
all you need is one idiot to catch and keep a couple of non native species and releace them into our lochs and thats the destroyed for good
keep your course fish out of caithness

Why are there so many lochs in Scotland where superb trout fishing can be had where lochs also contain BIG!!!!! pike?
There are some lochs in Sutherland in particular where there is an absolute abundance of
small trout with no large fish ever being caught.Ive been to one loch in particular where ive been told to keep everything that is caught no matter the size because of the proliferation of "tiddlers"in the hope that less fish will mean more natural food for the rest which in turn should increase the size of the trout.
Perhaps a few pike in the loch would do that naturally because quite frankly its not a lot of fun catching 30 to 40 4 to 6 ounce trout in a days fishing,or even worse...only one:lol:

George Brims
03-Jul-09, 00:11
I see I have stirred things up. My main point was that if non-native fish are around, some doofus will think it's a good idea to put them in some other body of water. "Why should I pay them to fish there again if there were to be a few of these fish in Loch Whatsitsname where I can fish for free?" It has happened time and time again around the world (Google "zander" for one example). If you manage to strictly enforce catch and release and make sure nothing goes out the gate that would obviously help. I myself do not believe in catch and release. If I don't get to eat it, I don't want to catch it.

I liked the point about disabled access. Perhaps someone should look into putting some long jetties out into some of the lochs? Or adding a wee dock to allow wheelchair bound fishers to more easily get in and out of a boat? When I was in Alaska last year, we saw a group of anglers coming off a day trip, fishing for halibut. The boat had a very good ramp for wheelchairs and a spot at the rail that was wheelchair accessible. We saw a man in a wheelchair getting his picture taken with his 200 pound fish. Actually it was a 100 or so, but he had his hand round the back, pulling on the scale!

And now we have a (self-described) Potato Head suggesting adding Pike to Sutherland waters. I think the problem of large numbers of small fish has been tackled before, but I don't honestly know if adding a predator to the mix has been found to help.

Mystical Potato Head
03-Jul-09, 01:58
I see I have stirred things up. My main point was that if non-native fish are around, some doofus will think it's a good idea to put them in some other body of water. "Why should I pay them to fish there again if there were to be a few of these fish in Loch Whatsitsname where I can fish for free?" It has happened time and time again around the world (Google "zander" for one example). If you manage to strictly enforce catch and release and make sure nothing goes out the gate that would obviously help. I myself do not believe in catch and release. If I don't get to eat it, I don't want to catch it.

I liked the point about disabled access. Perhaps someone should look into putting some long jetties out into some of the lochs? Or adding a wee dock to allow wheelchair bound fishers to more easily get in and out of a boat? When I was in Alaska last year, we saw a group of anglers coming off a day trip, fishing for halibut. The boat had a very good ramp for wheelchairs and a spot at the rail that was wheelchair accessible. We saw a man in a wheelchair getting his picture taken with his 200 pound fish. Actually it was a 100 or so, but he had his hand round the back, pulling on the scale!

And now we have a (self-described) Potato Head suggesting adding Pike to Sutherland waters. I think the problem of large numbers of small fish has been tackled before, but I don't honestly know if adding a predator to the mix has been found to help.

Like you say in your last sentance,you dont know if its been found to help or not.
BTW Mystical Potato Head is the name of a Joe Satriani song so next time try Mystical instead of (self described)Your implication is pretty obvious.

locini
03-Jul-09, 02:46
George,

Thanks for writing back,

A point I forgot to say in my last post was that I had been in touch with a good few coarse fish suppliers in the UK. And a point they raised with me I thought I would share:

They informed me that due to the cooler weather and hence colder water, up here there was virtually no chance the fish would breed naturally in my pond. They would be happy in the water but slow growing and self breeding would be a no go, this would be the same in a loch or river.

The reason we got onto this was I asked them the question on how often they would see me having to re-stock my water, and if I could supplement that myself by stocking my own naturally bred fish. Obviously to calculate my potential future costs/expenses.

I re-iterate my earlier point that even with the security cameras and potential legal consequences to put people off in the first place, even catching and removing a fish from the site without being noticed, even keeping the fish alive long enough for transportation and successful release and finally even catching a breeding pair...

Then releasing them to a Caithness body of water, it is virtually impossible for them to breed successfully & naturally anyway... Pointless...???

For someone to manage to do all this would have to know what they were doing, IE spend money on oxygenated tanks for their vehicle to transport the stock (they aren't going to catch a male and female at the exact same time, right?) Know how to sex the fish, (which can be very difficult to untrained eyes)

They would be a lot easier buying the fish from a coarse fish supplier in breading pairs, where they knew exactly what they were getting and a quantity to suffice...

My opinion of course (as you probably can tell) is that Caithness water being taken over and causing an "ecological disaster" as you put it, by non native fish, caused by my stocked fishery (If even coarse) would never ever happen, and your/others about this point/concern, is a invalidated one.

Regarding your view on catch and release, I can totally see where you are coming from.

Its what we have always been use to... Catch to eat...

However there is no doubt about it, that sport fishing has increased in popularity massively, in the last few years and is set to continue to rise in years to come. Do your math on the amount of new coarse fisheries popping up around the UK.

Lots of people prefer the idea of catching a specimen fish for the sport and returning it to the water relatively unharmed to fight or do its fishy thing for another day. (Rather like what you would do with an undersized trout)

I for one do a lot of sea fishing but, cant stand the taste of most of the things I catch. I however decide to do it because I enjoy it very much, and its how I choose to spend my spare time relaxing.

NickInTheNorth
23-Feb-10, 22:56
Just wondered if there was any further progress with your ideas regarding a new stocked fishery? I for one would be keen to use such a facility.