Dunblane

[brandy]

read on cnn today about it being the 10 year anniversary.. still hard to belive that such a thing can happen
i didnt realise about the schools until about a month ago.. that they all had locks now because of it..
just wanted to start a little memorial msg for all those children who have lost their lives to attrocities like this
my prayer and thoughts go out to all the families in the world..
who have experianced this horror

[Billy Boy]

No words can come close to expresing our thoughts and feelings when something like this happens.
No parent should have to bury their own child, let alone go through what these families have suffered
They may be gone but will never be forgotten.

[angela5]

This was so sad..gone but never forgotten..

[canuck]

There is terrible pain in the irony in the words of the hymn written one hundred years ago to the tune of Dunblane Cathedral: "All round the world let children sing Thy song: From east and west their voices sweetly blend."
Ten years ago, Scotland's grief was shared round the world, just as the people of Caithness, myself among them that day, cried with the families of Breslan. Surely, we all hope for the day when our children can be free to be innocent, in total security that nothing will harm them.

Thank you brandy for bringing this before us.

[zebedy]

I lit a candle in memory

I was the exact same age as them...


I was 5 when it happened ....


Showing the respect

Damn the Evil that happened

[Bingobabe]

I rember exactly where i was when this tradegy happened. My thoughts are with the families of the children who lost their lives and the family of the teacher may they rest in peace.

And the evil man who did this who shall not be named as he is not worthy to be named got of far to easily he took his own life like the coward that he was in cases like this my opion is public execution is the best way for people like that.And may he rot in hell

[tillygirl]

On the 13th of March 1996, every parent who had a child held them a lot closer that night.
On the 14th of March 1996, every parent was thoughtful about sending their child to school.
It never goes away. Who thought it would happen in sleepy Dunblane?
People are asked 'Where were you when Kennedy was assasinated?' and they know exactly. For the people of Scotland, when asked, 'Where were you when Dunblane happened?' we all know and we'll never forget.

[DW]

I am not convinced that these 'public' ourpourings of grief do any good at all. It seems to me that nowadays there is an implied criticism of people who do not engage in this type of show.
Its first appearance was the ridiculous nonsense surrounding the death of Prince Charles's first wife.
It became important to grieve in public, to produce the appropriate signs and to participate in the street theatre of mourning. The public became both stars and the audience. Non-grievers were forced to conform, including the royal family. Any private mourning by the relatives seemed unreal by comparison and not mourning, unthinkable. The nation united in grief was another media image, and those who did not mourn were excluded .

[brandy]

its called sypathy and basic humanity..
it is entirely natural for people to grieve and feel sorrow for something that is not directly related to them.
no one is expecting anyone to run out in the streets ripping hair and screaming.. in anguish..
but to say a prayer and remember the lost..is only human..
those children and many many more.. died a horrible tragic death..
as human beings it is only right to share the grief.. and to show support for loved ones lost.. grieving is the begining of the healing process.. and when you are hurting inside and have no idea how to begin to grief or start working thru a lot of time.. the empathy and care you get from others who are there to show thier respect and that yes they care as well.. and that you are not alone in your pain is the first step.
when you loose someone.. no one ever can understand the pain you feel.. but it is comforting to know that others care..

[DW]

Sorry, grief and sorrow should be private. By all means empathise but there is no need for public display or discussion.

Can't help but agree with the text below; this is an analysis of the public grief performance by Civitas, the Institute for the study of Civil Society --

There is a culture of ostentatious caring where people indulge in 'recreational grief' for murdered children and dead celebrities in a bid to feel better about themselves.
Wearing coloured charity ribbons, holding silences for the Soham murder victims and joining anti-war marches are all symptoms of the country's emotional crisis, the report added.
The no-holds-barred analysis of 21st-century Britain said such "hollow expressions of public caring" had been triggered by the decline of institutions which once gave meaning to people's lives, such as the family, Church and neighbourhood.
Public displays of grief, epitomised by the national mourning at the death of Diana in 1997, were phoney exercises in piling up "damp teddies and rotting flowers", it said.
The report said that such actions amounted to "grief lite", which was "undertaken as an enjoyable event, much like going to a football match or the last night of the Proms".

[landmarker]

The parents of Dunblane have suffered their tragic losses with great dignity.
I cannot begin to understand their hurt or their pain. Time heals a little, for some, while for others no passage of years can alleviate their grief.


I know where the Doc is coming from.

On the day of the massacre I was sat at home with Chicken Pox at the age of 44 feeling a bit sorry for myself. Much water has passed benath the bridge since then and the country has changed much. Attitudes & reaction to 'public' death included.

Believers in a God, any God, must surely question their faith in the shadow of such a waste of young, innocent life. Possibly the cruelest day in our country, in my lifetime.

Reference to it is not to indulge in' grief lite' . I'm not one for floral tributes myself. or for pinning teddy bears onto makeshift shrines. In my view though there is nothing at all wrong in empathising by way of the written word on a remote and detached forum such as this.

[brandy]

and tell me why can not someone who is not directly involved in a tragedy grieve.. and show thier support?
i have two small children and the very thought of something happening to them.. breaks my heart.. and in responce causes me to grieve in sypathy of teh other parents..
misery loves company you know..
i see you keep throwing diana up..
diana was a great humanitarian.. she did a lot to help her fellow man .. and when she died a lot of people did morn..
yes there are people out there who go out and act like they grieve and do not.. but when it is a sincere show of sympathy.. then accept it..
as for what it said for the breakup of family home and church.. .lets see i was brought up in that.. and we were taught to love one another and to feel sorrow and grief even if it didnt touch us personally.
when someone died the whole church came in.. to support the family.. and they funeral process from death to burial to family and friends leaving takes about a week
in that time everyone who even vaguly knew the decesed or who had never even met them.. but were friends of a family member or a member of the church is there.. to offer support.. in any way they can.. be it food.. comfort.. or doing the simplest of chores.
if you do not like this thread where we are showing that yes we care about a tragedy that happened then do not read it and do not respond. because you obviously do not care. as you are insunuationg that others do not really care and that this is just an attention seeking attempt to salve our on emotional distress..

[brandy]

whew .. sorry for the rant.. after reading landmarkers post cleared my haze a bit.. im not retracting my post.. but do want to ammend it a wee bit.. i took the responce as being a deliberate insult.. to people who want to show their respect..
if ive taken it the wrong way sorry
but those are my feelings.

[scotsboy]

Sorry, grief and sorrow should be private. By all means empathise but there is no need for public display or discussion.

Care to expand and tell us why? In YOUR opinion of course.

[Moby]

I didn't realise there were rules as to how people should grieve.

Some people like to keep their grief private - others like to lay flowers. I think it is very much a personal choice and neither way is wrong.

When a child dies it has a huge impact on the community - people want to leave tributes because sometimes they have no idea what to say to the parents, they feel they have to do something - if it's a soggy teddy then that is OK if it helps them cope with their feelings.

I personally feel that a stranger leaving flowers for a dead child would be seen as a comfort for the family.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Sorry, grief and sorrow should be private. By all means empathise but there is no need for public display or discussion.

Can't help but agree with the text below; this is an analysis of the public grief performance by Civitas, the Institute for the study of Civil Society --

There is a culture of ostentatious caring where people indulge in 'recreational grief' for murdered children and dead celebrities in a bid to feel better about themselves.
Wearing coloured charity ribbons, holding silences for the Soham murder victims and joining anti-war marches are all symptoms of the country's emotional crisis, the report added.
The no-holds-barred analysis of 21st-century Britain said such "hollow expressions of public caring" had been triggered by the decline of institutions which once gave meaning to people's lives, such as the family, Church and neighbourhood.
Public displays of grief, epitomised by the national mourning at the death of Diana in 1997, were phoney exercises in piling up "damp teddies and rotting flowers", it said.
The report said that such actions amounted to "grief lite", which was "undertaken as an enjoyable event, much like going to a football match or the last night of the Proms".


I know precisely what you mean re: Diana and other examples of mass hysteria. But these were children - and in our back yard. My landlord at the time of the tragedy was a world-renowned children psychologist. He was one of the first people in Dunblane to try and help parents and other children with their grief. He was a hard man who had seen and heard it all before, but something died in him that day, and he was never really the same since. Had this happened in a Caithness school, I certainly wouldn't expect any sympathy from you DW, you unfeeling fool.

[landmarker]

..... this is an analysis of the public grief performance by Civitas, the Institute for the study of Civil Society --

]

Probably compiled by academics sheltered from the real world in their ivory towers. Lofty opinion givers commenting upon the habits of the hoi polloy - the great unwashed, and under educated - is perhaps how they view them.

I didn't get caught up in the distress over Diana, I thought much of the public grieving was superficial. It soon evaporated anyway. I don't knock people who obviously thought a lot of the woman and felt a genuine sense of loss. Though the degree to which one can feel that about a remote figure like her puzzles me. She died relatively young which was a great shame for her and her loved ones.

However, the death of a child is utterly tragic, whosoever they are and wherever they come from.Accidents happen of course in this high speed world we live in & we al face dangers, young and old alike.

When the hand of a murderer intervenes to abbreviate young life and deny to the children of others what we all yearn for our own - a long and fruitful life then any caring community will rally around to show support. Even if this is just a kind word.

I do not go in for the laying of flowers, as I say. I think the such shrines can soon look forlorn and diminish the motives behind them. I also think there is an element of un-Britishness about these 'shrines'. That said, there is no harm in the act surely, if it helps people to express some kind of collective hurt for a great loss. There is no sadder loss than the death of an innocent child. Multiply this sixteenfold and the effect is that much greater.

Stuff civitas, and stuff those over educated buffoons.

[badger]

I know precisely what you mean re: Diana and other examples of mass hysteria. But these were children - and in our back yard. My landlord at the time of the tragedy was a world-renowned children psychologist. He was one of the first people in Dunblane to try and help parents and other children with their grief. He was a hard man who had seen and heard it all before, but something died in him that day, and he was never really the same since. Had this happened in a Caithness school, I certainly wouldn't expect any sympathy from you DW, you unfeeling fool.

The fact that DW does not appreciate public outpourings of grief does not necessarily make him/her unfeeling. Britain used to pride itself on stiff upper lip and while I don't think that was always a good thing, I do sometimes wonder about the way people react to public tragedy since the death of Diana. Does it really help the families who have lost precious loved ones to see mounds of rotting flowers and soft toys? I think I saw that there is no public observance of this terrible anniversary in Dunblane and maybe that's how they want it. One thing parents often do say later is that they want to make sure something like whatever their particular tragedy was should never happen again and the only comment I have seen on this occasion is from the father who campaigned to get the law changed. It is a disgrace that after all this time the government has not managed to establish a register of firearms and maybe the best way to remember the children would be to pursue this until something is done.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Fair point. But I take nothing back.

[DW]

I know precisely what you mean re: Diana and other examples of mass hysteria. But these were children -

YADAYADAYAD BLAH BLAH BLAH

Had this happened in a Caithness school, I certainly wouldn't expect any sympathy from you DW, you unfeeling fool.

Ah, it is always good to engage in measured debate with you sweet flowery people.
Not only are you unlikely to listen to a differing opinion, but you are prepared to leap to conclusions and personally insult anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you.
Feeling a bit duh yet? [lol]

[Bingobabe]

[quote=DW]Sorry, grief and sorrow should be private. By all means empathise but there is no need for public display or discussion.

Very british anyway if people wish to display their grief in public and if it makes them feel better then thats there prerogative.I dont belive you should be so quick to pass judgement as people deal with grief diffrenetly and they may find it,s the only way they can deal with it.

And another thing isnt this thread about remberance not how you feel people should deal with their grief if you dont wish to get involed then dont.

[DW]

[quote=DW]
CUT OUT THE RAMBLINGS
And another thing, isn't this thread about remberance, not how you feel people should deal with their grief ,if you don't wish to get involed then don't?

It seems that this thread is about who can 'appear' to write the most sympathetic wee piece of prose.

And just as I said earlier, those of us who either won't do it, or comment negatively about it are somehow, emotional cripples, only fit to be derided by our (em)pathetic superiors! :eyes

I have as much right to disagree and register my disagreements as those who prefer to wear their hearts on their sleeves so that everyone can see what a jolly fine human being they are. ;)

[DrSzin]

Probably compiled by academics sheltered from the real world in their ivory towers. Lofty opinion givers commenting upon the habits of the hoi polloy - the great unwashed, and under educated - is perhaps how they view them.Perhaps, but I suggest you take a look at the CIVITAS website (http://www.civitas.org.uk/). It features criticisms of: political correctness, multiculturism, mass immigration, the teaching of social history, Islamism, ... I would have thought you'd connect with at least some of those topics.

[landmarker]

[QUOTE=Bingobabe]

It seems that this thread is about who can 'appear' to write the most sympathetic wee piece of prose.

And just as I said earlier, those of us who either won't do it, or comment negatively about it are somehow, emotional cripples, only fit to be derided by our (em)pathetic superiors! :eyes

I have as much right to disagree and register my disagreements as those who prefer to wear their hearts on their sleeves so that everyone can see what a jolly fine human being they are. ;)

Of course you do Doc.
I find your opening gambit beneath you and surprisingly vindictive.
I had not thought about the Dunblane massacre today, though I did yesterday.

Brandy's post reminded me of it. Nobody described anyone as an 'emotional cripple' and I wont make the obvious 'if the cap fits' retort. I dont see what your problem is here. The board makes mention of many things so trivial, surely the anniversary of a mass murder of innocents a couple of hundred miles from the org's epicentre is worth mentioning. You're dismissive tone brings some balance of sorts but I cannot help thinking you're in a very small minority here.

[landmarker]

Perhaps, but I suggest you take a look at the CIVITAS website (http://www.civitas.org.uk/). It features criticisms of: political correctness, multiculturism, mass immigration, the teaching of social history, Islamism, ... I would have thought you'd connect with at least some of those topics.

The topics yes, the instigators no. 'Think Tanks' are mostly comprised of the numpty's who have led this country down the road to ruin ever since the second world war. I'm not talking financial 'ruin' either, though we have come close.

I prefer to shape my own views and listen to those of others who promote common sense to the top of their agendas. I will have a look though , just in case I'm wrong. It has happened before & when I am wrong I'll admit it.

[Bingobabe]

[quote=Bingobabe]


I have as much right to disagree and register my disagreements as those who prefer to wear their hearts on their sleeves so that everyone can see what a jolly fine human being they are. ;)

I dont belive it,s called wearing your heart on your sleeves more like human compassion for the victims familys.And it is possible to feel emotion you know unless your extremely cold.And it was innocent children that were involed if you dont feel something you cant be human and we have a right to express emotion and if you dont want to dont.But dont slate people who are expressing their feelings

[DW]

[quote=DW]

I don't belive it's called wearing your heart on your sleeves, more like human compassion for the victims' families.And it is possible to feel emotion you know unless your extremely cold.And it was innocent children that were involved, if you don't feel something you can't be human and we have a right to express emotion and if you don't want to, don't.But don't slate people who are expressing their feelings.
I don't believe I did slate(sic) people
I just offered a different opinion and you are saying I can't be human!!!!!, Oh yeah, very feeeeeeeeling.

[Bingobabe]

[quote=Bingobabe]
I don't believe I did slate(sic) people
I just offered a different opinion and you are saying I can't be human!!!!!, Oh yeah, very feeeeeeeeling.I belive you are taking my words out of context.And if you want to belive that i think you are not human then what are you ET.Also i dont know you so i cant pass judgement but the opion your expressing does come across rather ice cold.