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If Scotland regains it's independence should Wales just cease to exist and instead just become part of England?
Gene Hunt
12-Jun-09, 22:57
That has to be a WAH.
I am Welsh and I am not biting.
2/10 .. must try harder.
arana negra
12-Jun-09, 23:02
Actually I think England should disappear the bit in the middle is always surplus :lol:
Gene Hunt
12-Jun-09, 23:05
Actually I think England should disappear the bit in the middle is always surplus :lol:
We actually really do need to keep England. If the world ever got an enema its where we will need to put the tube.
That has to be a WAH.
I am Welsh and I am not biting.
2/10 .. must try harder.Ye cannae fault a bloke for trying? I thought the Welsh were assimilated anyhow.[lol]
Gene Hunt
13-Jun-09, 08:32
Ye cannae fault a bloke for trying? I thought the Welsh were assimilated anyhow.[lol]
Worst .. Baiting .. Ever .. ;)
tonkatojo
13-Jun-09, 10:22
Actually I think England should disappear the bit in the middle is always surplus :lol:
You really need a geography lesson, England ain't in the middle it's south and east.
tonkatojo
13-Jun-09, 10:25
We actually really do need to keep England. If the world ever got an enema its where we will need to put the tube.
That would be because they will be constipated from the rubbish the Welsh keep feeding them. [lol]
Kevin Milkins
13-Jun-09, 10:35
As a Welshman that lived in England for thirty years and now living in Wick, I found England very useful..
It has the only road to Scotland.;)
kmahon2001
13-Jun-09, 11:21
Maybe England should go for full independence, particularly in view of the continual whining and complaining about how mean and beastly the English are (sniff....sob....boohoo). It's time the kids grew up and went their own way so that the mother nation can be on her own now.:p:lol:
Of course, then Westminster would have to lose the Prime Minister and the Chancellor and any number of other cabinet ministers, unless they agreed to take out English citizenship......
I'm willing to bet that if England was independent, they'd be out of the EU at the first opportunity. Then they'd be truly independent. Of course, the SNP would keep Scotland in to fill the gap left by the English, including the millions of pounds the UK government currently pays to the EU everyday for the privilege of belonging to that club, so that would be ok as far as Europe is concerned. ;)
tonkatojo
13-Jun-09, 12:00
Maybe England should go for full independence, particularly in view of the continual whining and complaining about how mean and beastly the English are (sniff....sob....boohoo). It's time the kids grew up and went their own way so that the mother nation can be on her own now.
Of course, then Westminster would have to lose the Prime Minister and the Chancellor and any number of other cabinet ministers, unless they agreed to take out English citizenship......
I'm willing to bet that if England was independent, they'd be out of the EU at the first opportunity. Then they'd be truly independent. Of course, the SNP would keep Scotland in to fill the gap left by the English, including the millions of pounds the UK government currently pays to the EU everyday for the privilege of belonging to that club, so that would be ok as far as Europe is concerned. ;)
You really shouldn't be talking common sense to the ignorant, the SNP have already worked it out, the grants and benefits (development etc)they will receive as new members of the eec, but look what happened to Ireland when they stop getting them. if England as non members doesn't contribute to the coffers of the eec then that doesn't bear thinking about. ;)
tonkatojo
13-Jun-09, 12:03
Anne Robinson anyone? ;)
Her wit and sarcasm on this subject out does yours and mine by far. :Razz
My question is, where does she get the red hair from ?.
Kevin Milkins
13-Jun-09, 12:13
Her wit and sarcasm on this subject out does yours and mine by far. :Razz
My question is, where does she get the red hair from ?.
Nowadays I would have thought
http://www.loreal-paris.co.uk/img/l10n/brands/feria/product2.png (http://www.loreal-paris.co.uk/hair-colour/all-over-color/feria/21-starry-night.aspx)
tonkatojo
13-Jun-09, 12:37
Nowadays I would have thought
http://www.loreal-paris.co.uk/img/l10n/brands/feria/product2.png (http://www.loreal-paris.co.uk/hair-colour/all-over-color/feria/21-starry-night.aspx)
Try telling her that.
tonkatojo
13-Jun-09, 12:40
As a Welshman that lived in England for thirty years and now living in Wick, I found England very useful..
It has the only road to Scotland.;)
Your must have left poor Wales made your fortune in England, before enriching Scotland with your gains then.
weeboyagee
13-Jun-09, 16:27
Been to Wales once and going again in August to the Naitonal Eisteddfod - can't wait! Loads of friends in Cor Ger Y Lli and more recently Hogie'r Berfeddwlad! Try asking the Welsh if they want to be part of England and stand well back when you get the answer! "Twll tyn bob sais!" That's what they're likely to say!
WBG :cool:
Perhaps England should have independence but maintain overlordship over Scotland and wales?:confused
Perhaps England should have independence but maintain overlordship over Scotland and wales?:confused
That has been tried already Rheg, it did not work then [lol]
That has been tried already Rheg, it did not work then [lol]
Only because folks did not give it a chance to work!:lol:
Amy-Winehouse
13-Jun-09, 21:59
If Scotland regains it's independence should Wales just cease to exist and instead just become part of England?
No, its never going to happen mate, All the Welsh lads & lassies I met down there in the 90`s despised England far worse than Ive ever seen anywhere up here in Scotland- even the Bannockburn in Helmsdale!!
Hatred of a new dimension, it may be abated these days? but back then it was raw & worrying
No, its never going to happen mate, All the Welsh lads & lassies I met down there in the 90`s despised England far worse than Ive ever seen anywhere up here in Scotland- even the Bannockburn in Helmsdale!!
Hatred of a new dimension, it may be abated these days? but back then it was raw & worryingThe Welsh should have their independence also if they feel strongly enough about it. Maybe Cornwall could be annexed to Wales if the 'Cornish National Liberation Army' agree.
CORNWALL be annexed to Wales over my dead body!
The county might have been known as West Wales in the far distantant pass but even from where I now live I can hear Mebyon Kernow sharpening their sythes!
Gene Hunt
14-Jun-09, 02:12
No, its never going to happen mate, All the Welsh lads & lassies I met down there in the 90`s despised England far worse than Ive ever seen anywhere up here in Scotland- even the Bannockburn in Helmsdale!!
Hatred of a new dimension, it may be abated these days? but back then it was raw & worrying
Its not as bad now but it is still there to be honest. Especially around Seven Nations time. I have Scots and Irish people living near me and they dont have a problem but I do think the problem is a bit of the old habits dying hard on the Welsh side and a bit of the traditional arrogant attitude from the English side. That said I have loads of mates here who are English and have never had a problem so I dont think its a major issue. I had a lot of grief when I was working at Manchester simply because I was Welsh. The bottom line is that there are plonkers everywhere and its up to the individual how you deal with it.
What should happen I reckon is that the Welsh and Scots should gang up on the English, get a good old Celtic War Party on the go and split the proceeds .. ;)
Oh and us Welsh get first claims on Anne Robinson when its all over .. :D
Aaldtimer
14-Jun-09, 03:21
CORNWALL be annexed to Wales over my dead body!
The county might have been known as West Wales in the far distantant pass but even from where I now live I can hear Mebyon Kernow sharpening their sythes!
Ah Lizz, the "Sons of Cornwall"!
I used to know a Cornish guy, in Somerset in the '70s, who used to say if they gave him the spade, he would dig the 11(?) miles from the source of the Tamar river to cut the county off from England!:)
weeboyagee
15-Jun-09, 10:12
The Pan Celtic Festival - Lizz, Gene et al - you should head there every year for a BRILLIANT time - no English - all Celts - Scots, Irish, Manx, Welsh, Cornish and Bretonic - all speaking their own language - ESPECIALLY the Welsh.
Was in a bar in Donegal Town this year - with Scots. Some of us Scots were speaking in Gaelic, others who didn't have Gaelic spoke in English. A while later there was only me and one other Scot - both speaking Gaelic, joined by a Welsh lad - language changed to English. In came a choir of about 40 Welsh - not ONE word of English - not one - until they spoke to us.
Apart from the fact that it was very admirable, it was obvious that English is a second language and relegated to a "foreign" status.
Enough said about the Welsh and the English methinks.
WBG :cool:
tonkatojo
15-Jun-09, 10:34
The Pan Celtic Festival - Lizz, Gene et al - you should head there every year for a BRILLIANT time - no English - all Celts - Scots, Irish, Manx, Welsh, Cornish and Bretonic - all speaking their own language - ESPECIALLY the Welsh.
Was in a bar in Donegal Town this year - with Scots. Some of us Scots were speaking in Gaelic, others who didn't have Gaelic spoke in English. A while later there was only me and one other Scot - both speaking Gaelic, joined by a Welsh lad - language changed to English. In came a choir of about 40 Welsh - not ONE word of English - not one - until they spoke to us.
Apart from the fact that it was very admirable, it was obvious that English is a second language and relegated to a "foreign" status.
Enough said about the Welsh and the English methinks.
WBG :cool:
You get confused with the importance of your minority languages, how only the Gaelic speakers understood one another and the same for the Welsh language speakers, after welling in your superiority talking these languages, you decide to talk to all about you and what language do you use to do that,ENGLISH of course. Don't insult people with your stupidity the superior language shows by what you stated, having to revert to the language you all could speak, to be understood by one an all.
kmahon2001
15-Jun-09, 12:23
The Pan Celtic Festival - Lizz, Gene et al - you should head there every year for a BRILLIANT time - no English - all Celts - Scots, Irish, Manx, Welsh, Cornish and Bretonic - all speaking their own language - ESPECIALLY the Welsh.
Was in a bar in Donegal Town this year - with Scots. Some of us Scots were speaking in Gaelic, others who didn't have Gaelic spoke in English. A while later there was only me and one other Scot - both speaking Gaelic, joined by a Welsh lad - language changed to English. In came a choir of about 40 Welsh - not ONE word of English - not one - until they spoke to us.
Apart from the fact that it was very admirable, it was obvious that English is a second language and relegated to a "foreign" status.
Enough said about the Welsh and the English methinks.
WBG :cool:
At the moment there seems to be a continuous drip of negative comments coming from the Gaels and the Welsh about the English, with derogatory comments about the English people or the English language in every post. You can almost feel the loathing oozing out of every comment as they practically spit the word English.
Why is it that Gaelic and Welsh speakers keep on about how great their language and culture is, but if the English dare speak up with pride at their own cultures (which are many and varied from the far north of England right down to the Isle of Wight) the Gaels and Welsh call them arrogant.[disgust]
The constant running down of the English by the Gaels and the Welsh, is tolerated by the English, but if the English were to speak in similar terms about the Gaels and the Welsh there would be an outcry. Having said that, most English people wouldn't dream of running down these cultures because English people on the whole are very tolerant and they prefer to look at the positive side of other people's cultures rather than dragging up past history and trying to make present day people accountable for their ancestor's misdeeds. If the English were to do that, they'd have a case against many different peoples - the Romans (Italians), the Germans, the Vikings, the French!
The true English are as much a downtrodden race as the Celts - the English were completely conquered by the Normans who took over the rule of England and mercilessly persecuted the English peasants. All the previous atrocities that were supposedly carried out by the English on the Scots, were actually carried out by the ruling classes i.e. the French! [lol] It was the ruling classes (i.e. the descendants of the Normans) who decided to build a British Empire and dominate the indigenous people in many countries around the world whilst stripping those countries of whatever they had to offer. The ordinary everyday English man and woman didn't even have the vote and therefore had no say in what was done.
In addition, the present day English are actually made up of many different races. A great many English, like myself, are descended from immigrants (in my case Irish) but there are many English descended from Scots and Welsh too (as well as immigrants from much further afield). Simply because someone speaks with an English accent doesn't necessarily make them any different to people up here or in Wales or Ireland.
I had previously developed an interest in "re-discovering" my Irish roots and learning about my Irish heritage even to the point of learning the Irish language, but having seen the attitude of the Celtic people just recently, I really don't think I want to do that now. I will be satisfied with my Englishness, at least the English don't run me down for being of Irish descent and having an Irish name.
You do not need to trash another culture simply to validate your own. Yes, be very proud to be Gaelic or Welsh, but you don't need to keep attacking the English to demonstrate that pride.
weeboyagee
15-Jun-09, 14:37
You get confused with the importance of your minority languages, how only the Gaelic speakers understood one another and the same for the Welsh language speakers, after welling in your superiority talking these languages, you decide to talk to all about you and what language do you use to do that,ENGLISH of course. Don't insult people with your stupidity the superior language shows by what you stated, having to revert to the language you all could speak, to be understood by one an all.
If you were a Gael or a German then I would have addressed the post in either of those two languages but you're not and neither are the bulk of the people on this forum. It's therefore not stupidity but absolute sense to post in English. Didn't quite understand why you said that - seems just daft.
To the point now anyway,.....erm,......I don't refer anywhere to English not being a dominant language. I used it everyday when in Ireland - what's the sense in denying it - which I haven't done? Where does the fact that we chose to speak in those languages mean that we were "welling in our superiority"? It was a festival for that purpose - the promotion of Celtic and if you like, non-English languages. Since all needed English to communicate to each other, English was the dominant language, where it wasn't required (i.e where Welsh were speaking with Welsh) it was not the dominant language.
Use of the word "dominant" instead of "superior" - well that's just to chop you back down to size. English has no ability to claim superiority in the vast history of language - it's a bolted on, nicked, compromised, conglomoration of language bits and bobs that is more modern and less superior in history than numerous languages - including most of the Celtic languages and the dead languages. Your claim that English is "superior" is laughable at best but understandable on the other side of the border. How many times do I hear what's the Gaelic for "television" or "helicopter" or "hospital". All those words being "English" words - nuts!!!! Most words referred to as being English have been "created" using other languages or paths of linguistic thought to create them in the same way as older Celtic languages have to adapt or spell the equivalent different. Claimed as English but definitely NOT. English language superiority - I think not - but typical of the mind-set of a fair amount of the speakers of it!
Let's look at another of your statements.....
You really shouldn't be talking common sense to the ignorant, the SNP have already worked it out, the grants and benefits (development etc)they will receive as new members of the eec, but look what happened to Ireland when they stop getting them. if England as non members doesn't contribute to the coffers of the eec then that doesn't bear thinking about
Never mind language, in what manner would this seem to portray your consideration of England? If "English" wasn't the name given to the superior language it may be easier to accept the fact that we speak it without constantly being reminded that those who live in that country feel more "superior" - fact or no fact - bourne out in your statement. I'd go one more to say that the word "superior" would be replaced here also by some to "dominant" - more aptly descriptive.
Quite frankly the whole condescending manner of your post with words like "stupdity" and "insulting" used to describe a light-hearted post to folks like Lizz, Gene, TBH etc smacks me of your "superior" snobbery which gets right up the noses of the folks who, where they possibly can, will talk in another language - any language - just to help you keep your station!
And the fact that the language of English is spoken in Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand and countless other countries who probably wouldn't give a toss about the post I wrote would also qualify the self-righteousness of those in a country that believe that we use "their" language. If only we could call it by another name - but since it was a language that most nations had forced on them, I can't think of any other name to call it. Can you?
WBG :cool:
tonkatojo
15-Jun-09, 17:27
If you were a Gael or a German then I would have addressed the post in either of those two languages but you're not and neither are the bulk of the people on this forum. It's therefore not stupidity but absolute sense to post in English. Didn't quite understand why you said that - seems just daft.
To the point now anyway,.....erm,......I don't refer anywhere to English not being a dominant language. I used it everyday when in Ireland - what's the sense in denying it - which I haven't done? Where does the fact that we chose to speak in those languages mean that we were "welling in our superiority"? It was a festival for that purpose - the promotion of Celtic and if you like, non-English languages. Since all needed English to communicate to each other, English was the dominant language, where it wasn't required (i.e where Welsh were speaking with Welsh) it was not the dominant language.
Use of the word "dominant" instead of "superior" - well that's just to chop you back down to size. English has no ability to claim superiority in the vast history of language - it's a bolted on, nicked, compromised, conglomoration of language bits and bobs that is more modern and less superior in history than numerous languages - including most of the Celtic languages and the dead languages.
Let's look at another of your statements.....
Never mind language, in what manner would this seem to portray your consideration of England? If "English" wasn't the name given to the superior language it may be easier to accept the fact that we speak it without constantly being reminded that those who live in that country feel more "superior" - fact or no fact - bourne out in your statement. I'd go one more to say that the word "superior" would be replaced here also by some to "dominant" - more aptly descriptive.
Quite frankly the whole condescending manner of your post with words like "stupdity" and "insulting" used to describe a light-hearted post to folks like Lizz, Gene, TBH etc smacks me of your "superior" snobbery which gets right up the noses of the folks who, where they possibly can, will talk in another language - any language - just to help you keep your station!
And the fact that the language of English is spoken in Canada,
WBG :cool:
I agree with most of the above, but its once again the underlying tone what riles.
I grew up on a street that resembled the UN and had no problem but give most Welsh and most Scots a platform and the racist tones come to the fore.why I wonder. Ask Gene about racism and he will put you wise, there is a good Welsh bloke who can take it as well as give it as most squaddys could ( RE 1960s). the world is fast becoming a melting pot of nations just accept it.
tonkatojo
15-Jun-09, 17:35
I agree with most of the above, but its once again the underlying tone what riles.
I grew up on a street that resembled the UN and had no problem but give most Welsh and most Scots a platform and the racist tones come to the fore.why I wonder. Ask Gene about racism and he will put you wise, there is a good Welsh bloke who can take it as well as give it as most squaddys could ( RE 1960s). the world is fast becoming a melting pot of nations just accept it.
Quite a few org'ers would do well to observe the thread BNP and wonder what camp they are in.
I have blood relatives that are Welsh as well as a Scottish surname and am an English person by birth and I do despair with the racist undertones that are spouted under the guise of humour by some.
tonkatojo
15-Jun-09, 17:42
If you were a Gael or a German then I would have addressed the post in either of those two languages but you're not and neither are the bulk of the people on this forum. It's therefore not stupidity but absolute sense to post in English. Didn't quite understand why you said that - seems just daft.
To the point now anyway,.....erm,......I don't refer anywhere to English not being a dominant language. I used it everyday when in Ireland - what's the sense in denying it - which I haven't done? Where does the fact that we chose to speak in those languages mean that we were "welling in our superiority"? It was a festival for that purpose - the promotion of Celtic and if you like, non-English languages. Since all needed English to communicate to each other, English was the dominant language, where it wasn't required (i.e where Welsh were speaking with Welsh) it was not the dominant language.
Use of the word "dominant" instead of "superior" - well that's just to chop you back down to size. English has no ability to claim superiority in the vast history of language - it's a bolted on, nicked, compromised, conglomoration of language bits and bobs that is more modern and less superior in history than numerous languages - including most of the Celtic languages and the dead languages. Your claim that English is "superior" is laughable at best but understandable on the other side of the border. How many times do I hear what's the Gaelic for "television" or "helicopter" or "hospital". All those words being "English" words - nuts!!!! Most words referred to as being English have been "created" using other languages or paths of linguistic thought to create them in the same way as older Celtic languages have to adapt or spell the equivalent different. Claimed as English but definitely NOT. English language superiority - I think not - but typical of the mind-set of a fair amount of the speakers of it!
Let's look at another of your statements.....
Never mind language, in what manner would this seem to portray your consideration of England? If "English" wasn't the name given to the superior language it may be easier to accept the fact that we speak it without constantly being reminded that those who live in that country feel more "superior" - fact or no fact - bourne out in your statement. I'd go one more to say that the word "superior" would be replaced here also by some to "dominant" - more aptly descriptive.
Quite frankly the whole condescending manner of your post with words like "stupdity" and "insulting" used to describe a light-hearted post to folks like Lizz, Gene, TBH etc smacks me of your "superior" snobbery which gets right up the noses of the folks who, where they possibly can, will talk in another language - any language - just to help you keep your station!
And the fact that the language of English is spoken in Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand and countless other countries who probably wouldn't give a toss about the post I wrote would also qualify the self-righteousness of those in a country that believe that we use "their" language. If only we could call it by another name - but since it was a language that most nations had forced on them, I can't think of any other name to call it. Can you?
WBG :cool:
As for your last paragraph, it is called evolution, along with progress. do you not know that we all came out of Africa no doubt grunting and using sign language and were perhaps all the same colour. We should look beyond local (UK)history then things might be different.
I agree with most of the above, but its once again the underlying tone what riles.
I grew up on a street that resembled the UN and had no problem but give most Welsh and most Scots a platform and the racist tones come to the fore.why I wonder. Ask Gene about racism and he will put you wise, there is a good Welsh bloke who can take it as well as give it as most squaddys could ( RE 1960s). the world is fast becoming a melting pot of nations just accept it.
A big problem is not that Britain is becoming a melting pot but it's becoming segregated into different sections of different cultures. Micro-countries within countries is not a good thing and certainly not doing a thing to abate the rise of the extremist parties. The Scots, Welsh, Irish, etc are just as keen as the immigrants to keep a hold of their identities which is only human nature, multi culturism should not be allowed to exist because it creates problems which are not easy to solve.
tonkatojo
15-Jun-09, 17:46
A big problem is not that Britain is becoming a melting pot but it's becoming segregated into different sections of different cultures. Micro-countries within countries is not a good thing and certainly not doing a thing to abate the rise of the extremist parties. The Scots, Welsh, Irish, etc are just as keen as the immigrants to keep a hold of their identities which is only human nature, multi culturism should not be allowed to exist because it creates problems which are not easy to solve.
How right you are, well done. Who is to blame, only the racist and bigoted folk who take all and not give in return. BRAZIL is a good example of multi-nations, a good melting pot of races.
How right you are, well done. Who is to blame, only the racist and bigoted folk who take all and not give in return. BRAZIL is a good example of multi-nations, a good melting pot of races.The racist is created by multi-culturism they are not the cause of Britains problems.
How much of Brazil is segregated into areas where the majority of it's populace are people from other races?
BTW, Brazil is hardly a shining example.
tonkatojo
15-Jun-09, 18:02
The racist is created by multi-culturism they are not the cause of Britains problems.
How much of Brazil is segregated into areas where the majority of it's populace are people from other races?
BTW, Brazil is hardly a shining example.
I haven't been for ages but look at the colour of their skin and see what a melting pot effect can do.
I haven't been for ages but look at the colour of their skin and see what a melting pot effect can do.The colour of peoples skin had a significance depending on which part of the world they lived in, climate etc.
tonkatojo
15-Jun-09, 19:19
The colour of peoples skin had a significance depending on which part of the world they lived in, climate etc.
Exactly, and the out come is that wonderful colour of the vast % of people living there.
But the problem with the UK lies in not being allowed to integrate without racism/religion being used as barriers, topped off with ignorance.
Does Rhyl count as Wales? Last time I was there it was full of Mancs and Scousers.
But the problem with the UK lies in not being allowed to integrate without racism/religion being used as barriers, topped off with ignorance.
I am a citizen of the UK whatever my roots and as such I find that statement objectionable as if presumes that we are religeous,racist ignoramuses.
I have little truck with religion,racism is abhorrent to me and I have never found any barriers to integration appart from those made by individuals who for one reason or another have made it their choice.
But the problem with the UK lies in not being allowed to integrate without racism/religion being used as barriers, topped off with ignorance.
I am a citizen of the UK whatever my roots and as such I find that statement objectionable as if presumes that we are religeous,racist ignoramuses.
I have little truck with religion,racism is abhorrent to me and I have never found any barriers to integration appart from those made by individuals who for one reason or another have made it their choice.A lack of integration is indeed the barrier to harmony amongst different races.
Racism raises it's ugly head when those different races reflect, in microcosm, their own countries, rather than accept that they are subjects of Great Britain with all the benefits that are available to them, having their cake and eating it springs to mind.
You missed my point TBH I was merely incensed by the statement made by a previous poster.
You missed my point TBH I was merely incensed by the statement made by a previous poster.Was that the post about MAncs and Scousers?
He he TBH nope but had a giggle about it!
oldmarine
16-Jun-09, 00:59
I have close friends living in England originally from Wales. I would rather view everyone as being from UK.
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