View Full Version : United States of Europe or America?
There is to be a referendum in Britain. The choice is twofold...
1. The United Kingdom joins the United States of America.
2. The United Kingdom joins the United States of Europe.
The United States of Europe is a hypothetical name for the new superstate which contains all the countries in the present day European Union.
There is no other choice. Which way would you vote?
Please vote only if you are a UK citizen.
Hmmm...tough choices! Do I want to be part of a corrupt and immoral state or a corrupt and immoral state? [disgust]
Frankly my dear, I think your allotment has gone missing! :Razz
butterfly
01-Jun-09, 01:45
I dinna care one way or the other lol!
Since I'm the only one that's voted so far, what would your choice be Crayola?
Strikes me as a totally irrelevant question as there is no United States of Europe.
Since I'm the only one that's voted so far, what would your choice be Crayola?
I am undecided and anyway I didn't want my opinions to bias the ballot any further than the wording already has done.
Strikes me as a totally irrelevant question as there is no United States of Europe.
.....yet. :)
Speculation about the result of this hypothetical ballot arose during an after dinner conversation about the Euro elections on Saturday evening. The concept of the UK as a member of a superstate based on the USA is due to George Orwell in his classic novel 1984 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1984_fictious_world_map_v2_quad.svg).
There are only two choices but that is one more than the citizens of 1984 might have had.
I wasn't sure whether to call the European state the 'United States of Europe' or leave it as the 'European Union' but I settled on the former because I thought the ballot would be unlikely with the present setup of the EU.
buddyrich
01-Jun-09, 09:43
It's ironic that the individual american states have more autonomy in some respects than we have as members of the EU.
oldmarine
01-Jun-09, 18:39
There is to be a referendum in Britain. The choice is twofold...
1. The United Kingdom joins the United States of America.
2. The United Kingdom joins the United States of Europe.
The United States of Europe is a hypothetical name for the new superstate which contains all the countries in the present day European Union.
There is no other choice. Which way would you vote?
Please vote only if you are a UK citizen.
I cannot vote because I am not a UK citizen. Due to the fact that UK has served on the same side as the USA during many conflicts (one of them WW2 in which I served), I would (if you had to make a choice), invite you to go along with the USA. Of course, I am biased.
teenybash
01-Jun-09, 19:02
I would vote to join the United States of America due to the fact, we have so much more in common with the USA than we do with Europe.
Also many of us have family and ancestors who opted to go or were forced to seek a better life in America.:)
Do you think the powers that be would actually give us a referendum, like they did with the Lisbon Treaty.
I dont have a vote, although I may be entitled to one. I think the UK is somewhat past its "best by" date. I would be in favour of having the UK joining Europe. I dont want millions of Brits flooding into Canada. They may be fine people as individuals but they are not like us and if asked most Canadians would say that the British should go home, better still, stay at home. (Except for Gurkhas)
Another thing is the food. The British are not like us. Do I want to see my Montreal Smoked Beef sandwiches replaced with luke-warm, lumpy Shepherds' Pie? I think not.
Of course another reason for bringing down the curtain on the Brits is their driving habits. I have been following with interest the cautionary and alarming stories out of Thurso. It is only a matter of time before purple faced, blustery types like myself of a certain advanced age will no longer be permitted to blast our way down Traill St. pranging surf boarders or acne-pitted, tattoed punks. Better see to your coastal defences, North America. Hell's Grandpas could be on the way.
Which brings me to the Gaels. Born trouble makers and even more of a menace since their belated discovery of spray paint. Can you imagine a whole section of society in kilts unable to make their minds up between their y-fronts or a full frontal paint job. Every morning of their existence!!!!
But could you not find some place for them like Provence or Brittany where they can get high on lavender and very poor wine. The Gaelic Univesrity of Cape Breton is full! Unless we could get some of those famous European subsidies.
So that does it folks.
Vote well and vote often!
I dont have a vote, although I may be entitled to one. I think the UK is somewhat past its "best by" date. I would be in favour of having the UK joining Europe. I dont want millions of Brits flooding into Canada. They may be fine people as individuals but they are not like us and if asked most Canadians would say that the British should go home, better still, stay at home. (Except for Gurkhas)
Another thing is the food. The British are not like us. Do I want to see my Montreal Smoked Beef sandwiches replaced with luke-warm, lumpy Shepherds' Pie? I think not.
Of course another reason for bringing down the curtain on the Brits is their driving habits. I have been following with interest the cautionary and alarming stories out of Thurso. It is only a matter of time before purple faced, blustery types like myself of a certain advanced age will no longer be permitted to blast our way down Traill St. pranging surf boarders or acne-pitted, tattoed punks. Better see to your coastal defences, North America. Hell's Grandpas could be on the way.
Which brings me to the Gaels. Born trouble makers and even more of a menace since their belated discovery of spray paint. Can you imagine a whole section of society in kilts unable to make their minds up between their y-fronts or a full frontal paint job. Every morning of their existence!!!!
But could you not find some place for them like Provence or Brittany where they can get high on lavender and very poor wine. The Gaelic Univesrity of Cape Breton is full! Unless we could get some of those famous European subsidies.
So that does it folks.
Vote well and vote often!
Good to see I'm not the only one that posts utter tripe on here.
I dont have a vote, although I may be entitled to one. I think the UK is somewhat past its "best by" date. I would be in favour of having the UK joining Europe. I dont want millions of Brits flooding into Canada. They may be fine people as individuals but they are not like us and if asked most Canadians would say that the British should go home, better still, stay at home. (Except for Gurkhas)
Another thing is the food. The British are not like us. Do I want to see my Montreal Smoked Beef sandwiches replaced with luke-warm, lumpy Shepherds' Pie? I think not.
Of course another reason for bringing down the curtain on the Brits is their driving habits. I have been following with interest the cautionary and alarming stories out of Thurso. It is only a matter of time before purple faced, blustery types like myself of a certain advanced age will no longer be permitted to blast our way down Traill St. pranging surf boarders or acne-pitted, tattoed punks. Better see to your coastal defences, North America. Hell's Grandpas could be on the way.
Which brings me to the Gaels. Born trouble makers and even more of a menace since their belated discovery of spray paint. Can you imagine a whole section of society in kilts unable to make their minds up between their y-fronts or a full frontal paint job. Every morning of their existence!!!!
But could you not find some place for them like Provence or Brittany where they can get high on lavender and very poor wine. The Gaelic Univesrity of Cape Breton is full! Unless we could get some of those famous European subsidies.
So that does it folks.
Vote well and vote often!
Wasnt it the USA or Europe, no mention of Canada. Unless of course you see Canada as a province of the US.
Joxville - were you called in for an edit?
changilass
01-Jun-09, 21:04
Rich:- If you despise us and our ways so much, why would you join one of our sites? If you really are such an obnoxious little man you should crawl back under your rock and leave us alone.
Due to the fact that UK has served on the same side as the USA during many conflicts (one of them WW2 in which I served), I would (if you had to make a choice), invite you to go along with the USA. Of course, I am biased.
I think you might find that it has been the US that served on the side of Britain during WW2.
That aside our politicians have sold us down the US side making us little more than a US lapdog (can anyone say Iraq?). I think the UK needs to make more of what it is, and there is more of a chance of being our own country in a European Union than as part of the USA.
and there is more of a chance of being our own country in a European Union than as part of the USA.
When something like 70% of our laws are made by beaurocrats in Brussels/Strasbourg ?
When something like 70% of our laws are made by beaurocrats in Brussels/Strasbourg ?
Yup, the US melting pot is what it is. Love it or leave it you don't become part of the US without becoming an American!
Defineatly the US of E. Geographically we're half way there already. It would be a shame to break the common market ties that bind us together. America knows we have a tendancy to lean their way anyway and know we have many common bonds non less than anscestry. We would always be affiliated to America without being swallowed up by its crazy form of democratic politics.
Joxville - were you called in for an edit?
Nope, you're not worth an infraction. But I'd still like you to sod off to another site if we are so bad as a Nation.
Gene Hunt
01-Jun-09, 23:10
Wouldnt join Europe as the EU Parliament has just awarded Spain rights to the waters around Gib, they really are a nest of Vipers. Plus associating with surrender monkeys such as the French just isnt my style. They are trying to crawl into Obama's lower colon as we speak, ol' Barrack must have the reek of Garlic in his throat by now. This is the nation that sees the upcoming D-Day celebrations as "Franco-American" affair, they didnt invite the Queen. Maybe they find the fact that our Monarch didnt run for the hills embarrasing or something because as all we all know it was the yanks who were supplying Hurricane units when the French were nowhere to be seen when ol Fritz was piling around the maginot line. Oh no ... hang on .. that was us wasnt it .. :eek:
Woudnt join with America as, they killed more of our troops through "friendly fire" than the Iraqis in Operation Desert Storm. Shoot first, shoot again .. maybe ask some questions. They also love to close ranks when their own are up for scrutiny as in the case of the A-10 gun run that killed Matty Hull. Funny how we werent "allies" when it came to fronting up on the death of one of our guys. Plus they were quite happy to finance the IRA through NORAID right up until 911, isnt it funny how Gerry Adams wasnt seen in the US after 911 ??, Apparently financing Terrorism is a-ok to Americans right up until their skyscrapers get headbutted then its all bad. Having visted Boston and New York in 1999 I was appalled to see a drink called the "IRA car bomb" on sale in a Boston pub, and I saw a collection tin in a NYPD fire staion for the "cause" in "Ireland", the abuse I got from certain firefighters that day when I explained I was a part time British soldier was all the sweeter when it became apparent that the mighty US needed us to go into Iraq. Mainly because we could differentiate between the "shoot" and "dont shoot" scenarios. This is a nation that hasnt won a war on its own that doesnt have the word "civil" in the title lets not forget.
As for Rich, you might want to re-evaluate your opinons. The phone book in a lot of Canada reads like a roll call of the Battle of Culloden. The rest are French, I know who my money is on in a fight. I am Welsh and we like to fight but dont mess with the Jocks, when they have no one to fight they start scrapping with each other and they have centuries of practice. You can send the Mounties mate but they will just pull a "Mongo" and deck the horse. Never drink with an Irishman, argue with an Englishman or fight with a Scotsman. In fact you can apply all three rules to the Jocks just to be safe.
My fellow Brits ......... stuff them all.
Lets fire up the Gurkha's and go Empire Building again .. [evil]
Personally I'd prefer to have nothing to do with either, but if pushed, I would prefer the US of A
The USA's war machine is collectively incompetent and the french have hairy women that smell of garlic.
Gene Hunt
01-Jun-09, 23:32
The USA's war machine is collectively incompetent and the french have hairy women that smell of garlic.
:lol::lol:
Awesome.
I would not vote for either as I see no merit in the 2 options.
I think that a lot of the problems we have in this country is our continual obsession to follow in the footstep of the yanks.[lol]
I also see no reason for a United States of Europe as it is obvious that we are not united. Even our own country is not united.[disgust]
One thing I do give you credit for is for your ability to draw a response from the orgers.:)
One thing I do give you credit for is for your ability to draw a response from the orgers.:)
Apparently in some places it's called trolling.;)
Another thing is the food. The British are not like us. Do I want to see my Montreal Smoked Beef sandwiches replaced
Bad news about that mate, they only put the smoke in to disguise the taste of the Moose anus.
Now, talking of anuses...........;)
The United States of Europe is a hypothetical name for the new superstate which contains all the countries in the present day European Union.There is no hypothetical about it. Under the EU Constitution, oops. sorry for that, it is now masquerading as the Lisbon Treaty isn't it, (I am a bit old fashioned, just because they call it Pork doesn't mean I don't know it's dead pig) the USE will have it's own President, (We, as usual get no say in who that will be, he will be imposed upon us).
It will also have it’s own Foreign Minister and Foreign Policy, sorry, there I go again, I mean High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy" and also thousands of Diplomats in it’s Embassies , I’m at it again, aren’t I, they are called thousands of European Commission officials serving in its 120 delegations around the world.
A Spanish Ambassador as far back 2007 pointed out that if your name is Maria, you can call yourself Jane, but you will still do Maria's job.
If it has a President and it has a Foreign Minister and it has Ambassadors then it is a Country whether it calls itself one or not. A sewer by any other name still stinks like a sewer and there is no disguising the fact.
The EU has previous form for telling the people it is doing or not doing, as the case may be, one thing whilst doing the complete opposite. It also has the habit of steamrollering over all dissent and carrying on in it’s own sweet way. To the EU “No” most definitely does not mean “No”, it simply means keep repeating the exercise until you answer “Yes”.
The term EU Directive is also meant to mislead, it is not given as advice or as a request it is a direct order to EU Countries to automatically pass such “Directives” as A Law in each Country. That is the reason Councils are introducing several types of Rubbish Bin and some Councils are employing Bin Spies to check people are using the corect bin for their rubbish. It has nothing to do with the Councils, Holyrood or Westminster, it is in direct compliance with an EU Directive regarding the disposal of rubbish. The fact that Councils and both Parliaments are willing to take the blame when there are complaints is because they do not want to admit they are quite powerless to do anything else. The EU has taken powers to impose massive, ongoing fines on them if they do not comply and that means increased taxation on us to pay those fines.
The attempts to find methods acceptable to the public for Road Pricing and Congestion Charges, despite lies to the contrary, are also at the behest of the EU so such Charges and any Fixed Penalties for speeding, parking and other similar offences can be imposed Europewide. The aim is to ensure that if you use a road anywhere in the EU subject to Road Charges or if you get a Fixed Penalty, wherever that may be, the charge or the fine will be collected via your home address. People from the Continent will be dealt with likewise for similar issues here.
All details now kept in your own Country will be available for all Authorities Europewide, Authorities over which we have no control over, no check on and no say in how they are operated.
And that is only the tip of a very large and very well hidden iceberg which we are ever more speedily steered into.
Like it or not, what we were initially assure was just a “Common Market” to ease the trade on goods between Countries was the first steps, although it was and still is being denied, entrapment into a spiders web which increasingly entangles it’s captives ever deeper into it's clutches.
We are already citizens of The United Super State of Europe or the USSE by whatever other label they deny it by.
Does anybody know who the MEP for this area is or what he/she has done for us? Just out of curiosity. I suspect not one in twenty of us knows and that will go for the rest of Britain too.
Bad news about that mate, they only put the smoke in to disguise the taste of the Moose anus.
You obviously have never tasted a Reuben Sandwich Scorrie, the are a great North American delicacy, I was first introduced to them in Sutter Bar Albany New York Sate, I love them, no matter if they are Canadian or American
http://www.squidoo.com/reubensandwich
annthracks
03-Jun-09, 10:33
Nope, you're not worth an infraction. But I'd still like you to sod off to another site if we are so bad as a Nation.
LOL
no...must resist...do not add anything about arrogant or frogs ...
ps. Well said JAWS.
annthracks
03-Jun-09, 10:48
One thing I do give you credit for is for your ability to draw a response from the orgers.:)
Well you just need to see how many polls have been put out by crayola - 2 "crap" options is NOT a choice
I wouldn't like to join a USE (ie. am already against being in the EU) or a USA, but there's no option in this poll for opting out is there?
Well you just need to see how many polls have been put out by crayola - 2 "crap" options is NOT a choice
I wouldn't like to join a USE (ie. am already against being in the EU) or a USA, but there's no option in this poll for opting out is there?
The point of the poll is to find out whether orgers would rather be in the USA or the EU/USE. Period. :)
I love America and I love being there but I don't want America to be in my country. The UK would have very little say in an American superstate but the USA would have a big say in what happened here. We may be united (or divided) by a common language and we have some culture in common but the USA can be a very foreign country to us Brits. Last but not least, some US administrations have urged the UK to become more tightly bound to Europe. In other words, they didn't want us to become part of their country. They would rather we used our influence on the EU.
The obvious geographic connection with Europe is important, not least because IIRC 60% of our trade is with the EU. We may not share a common language with any EU country but we share a common history and in many cases our cultures are close despite this. Anyways, cultural diversity is to be welcomed when those cultures really are cultured and it serves to enrich our own culture.
If I wanted to be an American I would go there and become one so I shall vote to remain in the EU and to join the United States of Europe.
annthracks
04-Jun-09, 10:36
The point of the poll is to find out whether orgers would rather be in the USA or the EU/USE. Period. :)
"Period"?? you're already typing like a Yank!
So the opinions of orgers who want neither, by inference, are not worth anything?
I love America and I love being there but I don't want America to be in my country. The UK would have very little say in an American superstate but the USA would have a big say in what happened here.
Too late, it already is and they already do!
They would rather we used our influence (and by extension, their influence)
on the EU.
It's a worthless poll, valueless. If, for the sake of argument you get 100 responses, 64 of which would rather be in the EU, all you can say is 64% of orgers who responded or who want to be part of a Union of states wanted to be in the EU. Nothing about the 100s who potentially don't want either.
"Period"?? you're already typing like a Yank!You got it in one buddy. ;)
So the opinions of orgers who want neither, by inference, are not worth anything?
No, your inference is misplaced. They are the subject of a different thread.
It's a worthless poll, valueless. If, for the sake of argument you get 100 responses, 64 of which would rather be in the EU, all you can say is 64% of orgers who responded or who want to be part of a Union of states wanted to be in the EU. Nothing about the 100s who potentially don't want either.Yes that's exactly what I can say. You are beginning to understand the point of the poll but you aren't quite there yet and it isn't worthless.
annthracks
04-Jun-09, 12:10
:D I think Joxville summed it up rather nicely at the beginning
Frankly my dear, I think your allotment has gone missing!
My prediction last Saturday night was that the electorate would be unenthusiastic, the turnout for the poll would be very low and the result would be so close that the wording of the ballot question would as likely as not decide the result.
I think Orwell would have enjoyed it.
tonkatojo
06-Jun-09, 10:37
Defineatly the US of E. Geographically we're half way there already. It would be a shame to break the common market ties that bind us together. America knows we have a tendancy to lean their way anyway and know we have many common bonds non less than anscestry. We would always be affiliated to America without being swallowed up by its crazy form of democratic politics.
I think it is strange anyone thinking Europe could be united, common market don't make me laugh!. Me thinks it is only the good ole UK that abides by the rules and regs while the French do exactly what they want (usually the opposite of the UK) to feather their own nests and protect the national interest of France. Germany sucks up to their buddies the French (vice versa) and dictates the rules to suit themselves and the rest have to fall in line if they want to stay in the Franco Germanic club. Get us out of the EU and go back to prosperity of the COMMONWEALTH that served us and its members well enough, until Heath sold us out to Europe.
I am of the opinion that a powerful Europe is necessary to counter the global effect of America when it goes horribly wrong as it did during the George W Bush years.
One problem with democracy is that those who know least often shout loudest.
I am of the opinion that a powerful Europe is necessary to counter the global effect of America when it goes horribly wrong as it did during the George W Bush years.
One problem with democracy is that those who know least often shout loudest.
That explains why we're all deafened by you. [lol]
PS You walked into that one. ;)
Sorry, Crayola. Wouldn't want to join either - both are inept and corrupt. I would back the United Counties of Britain, though. ;)
I think it is strange anyone thinking Europe could be united, common market don't make me laugh!. Me thinks it is only the good ole UK that abides by the rules and regs while the French do exactly what they want (usually the opposite of the UK) to feather their own nests and protect the national interest of France. Germany sucks up to their buddies the French (vice versa) and dictates the rules to suit themselves and the rest have to fall in line if they want to stay in the Franco Germanic club. Get us out of the EU and go back to prosperity of the COMMONWEALTH that served us and its members well enough, until Heath sold us out to Europe.My sentiments exactly. I love the attempted insult that anybody who isn't in favour of a USSE, that's a United Super State of Europe, must be a "Little Englander" by which I assume they include those in othr parts of Britain, or a Europhobe. Well, if that is supposed to be an insult or term of abuse all I can say is, failed miserably.
Those in favour of being tied into the EU have a very narrow view of things, there is a whole world out there. Oh, I forgot, without the EU poor little Britain will be all alone like a poor little lost toddler ready to be trampled underfoot by all the nasty big countries out there. Well, try telling that to Japan, South Korea etc. Who does poor little Australia and New Zealand run to so big nasty countries will not trample them underfoot? How about Canada? You can make your own list, there are plenty more to choose from.
Try the argument, look at the size of Europe. Well, the Commonwealth has been mentioned. Yes, look at tiny Europe. India alone has about three times the population of the EU and is growing rapidly, as is the rest of that area, whilst Europe stagnates.
When it comes to the low turnout for the election of MEPs there is a simple reason for that. Most people have realised that they are there for nothing more than window dressing to make a pretence that the EU is a democratic institution. They are not even a toothless tiger, they are more akin to a stuffed old Bagpuss because they have virtually no power over anything. All they can do is chat amongst themselves whilst the decisions are made by others.
Speaking of Democracy, what kind of democracy is it when the voters say “No” and are told to go away and come back when they have got the answer right. Even worse than that is when the voters say No, the reason for the vote is given another name, and the voters are bypassed by politicians who decide the voters cannot be trusted to make the right choice so they will make the decision themselves and the voters can go jump.
The excuse given for doing that is that the voters are such morons that they simply do not understand the issue or are voting because of something completely different or have not been put in possession of the right information or any number of other get out lies.
And the ultimate lie, there is no regulation about Bent Bananas it is a lie put about by nasty people who do not like the EU.
Well take a look at COMMISSION REGULATION (EC) No 2257/94. http://www.btinternet.com/~brentours/EU42.htm
But, of course, that doesn’t really exist except there are thousands more similar Regulations. Unfortunately I have lost the one covering potatoes but if you think the bananas one is OTT the one covering potatoes runs to page after page after page along similar lines and there are similar detailed regulations for virtually every fruit and vegetable you can think of.
Many of the laws implemented or floated as good ideas by Westminster actually come from Brussels but our Parliament, rather than admit the truth that they have been impose on them giving them little choice, pretend they are their own ideas and are willing to accept public anger rather than admit they are impotent in the matter.
The extent to which the EU already controls the details of our lives is carefully kept from us by our own politicians, whichever party they belong to.
I think it is strange anyone thinking Europe could be united
That's fair enough. Its a personal opinion though and bears no resemblance to my perception of a United States of Europe. Jaws agrees with you and then hastens to include his own perception of todays Europe. Thats fair enough too but once again its a very personal opinion and littered with innuendo and unprovable statements, for example "all they can do is chat amongst themselves whilst the decisions are made by others" Who are the others? Typical Jaws and conspiratorial to the neck. But, it's ok. It's a personal opinion and I respect it.
I have a personal opinion too. It's only 65 years ago yesterday that thousands of men from every country in Europe and further afield laid down their lives to defeat a stain on humanity and allow the world to consider the truama it had just experienced. Who could ever had imagined then, the Europe we live in today? This didnt happen by accident and no one is saying its going to be easy but given the choice i would rather belong to a United Europe than a United Kingdom squabbling to split itself at the seams because of the very thing that had us at eachothers throats to begin with. Nationalism!
Maybe my opinion is littered with idealistic notions of Turks and English shaking hands after a game of football or people like Jaws giving some credit for the progress we have made since 1945 but I believe it's the only way forward. The World Federation is the next move. I would love to come back in 500 years just to see what progress the human race has made in it's battle for world peace.
tonkatojo
07-Jun-09, 22:17
That's fair enough. Its a personal opinion though and bears no resemblance to my perception of a United States of Europe. Jaws agrees with you and then hastens to include his own perception of todays Europe. Thats fair enough too but once again its a very personal opinion and littered with innuendo and unprovable statements, for example "all they can do is chat amongst themselves whilst the decisions are made by others" Who are the others? Typical Jaws and conspiratorial to the neck. But, it's ok. It's a personal opinion and I respect it.
I have a personal opinion too. It's only 65 years ago yesterday that thousands of men from every country in Europe and further afield laid down their lives to defeat a stain on humanity and allow the world to consider the truama it had just experienced. Who could ever had imagined then, the Europe we live in today? This didnt happen by accident and no one is saying its going to be easy but given the choice i would rather belong to a United Europe than a United Kingdom squabbling to split itself at the seams because of the very thing that had us at eachothers throats to begin with. Nationalism!
Maybe my opinion is littered with idealistic notions of Turks and English shaking hands after a game of football or people like Jaws giving some credit for the progress we have made since 1945 but I believe it's the only way forward. The World Federation is the next move. I would love to come back in 500 years just to see what progress the human race has made in it's battle for world peace.
I wonder how the members of the British commonwealth feel now, Is their worth appreciated as much as it was at the end of 1945. Me personally would rather they stand close to me in an United Commonwealth than a united (ha ha) Europe. The old adage a leopard doesn't change its spots springs to mind.
oldmarine
08-Jun-09, 18:18
I have a personal opinion too. It's only 65 years ago yesterday that thousands of men from every country in Europe and further afield laid down their lives to defeat a stain on humanity and allow the world to consider the truama it had just experienced. Who could ever had imagined then, the Europe we live in today? This didnt happen by accident and no one is saying its going to be easy but given the choice i would rather belong to a United Europe than a United Kingdom squabbling to split itself at the seams because of the very thing that had us at eachothers throats to begin with. Nationalism!
Maybe my opinion is littered with idealistic notions of Turks and English shaking hands after a game of football or people like Jaws giving some credit for the progress we have made since 1945 but I believe it's the only way forward. The World Federation is the next move. I would love to come back in 500 years just to see what progress the human race has made in it's battle for world peace.
Gleeber: Thank you for reviewing history with us. I remember that war all too well. I was not in Europe nor England or Scotland, but I saw some bitter fighting against the Japanese Empire throughout the Pacific theater. I remember what England and some of Scotland had to go through during that devastating time. I remember when children were transported out of the cities to country neighborhoods to escape the terrible bombing that the Nazis were raining on the British people. The USA government offered only limited assistance in the beginning because our people were not prepared to go to war, but after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt with the help of Congress did declare war against the Axis powers. The USA civilian population did not sufffer like the British, but the mobilized military did eventually get involved. That was so long ago that the young people of today cannot begin to know what it was like to suffer what we older generation experienced. I pray that history will not repeat itself. I also would like to see, in the future, everyone striving for peace. Let us all work in that direction to accomplish this goal.
That's fair enough. Its a personal opinion though and bears no resemblance to my perception of a United States of Europe. Jaws agrees with you and then hastens to include his own perception of todays Europe. Thats fair enough too but once again its a very personal opinion and littered with innuendo and unprovable statements, for example "all they can do is chat amongst themselves whilst the decisions are made by others" Who are the others? Typical Jaws and conspiratorial to the neck. But, it's ok. It's a personal opinion and I respect it.
I have a personal opinion too. It's only 65 years ago yesterday that thousands of men from every country in Europe and further afield laid down their lives to defeat a stain on humanity and allow the world to consider the truama it had just experienced. Who could ever had imagined then, the Europe we live in today? This didnt happen by accident and no one is saying its going to be easy but given the choice i would rather belong to a United Europe than a United Kingdom squabbling to split itself at the seams because of the very thing that had us at eachothers throats to begin with. Nationalism!
Maybe my opinion is littered with idealistic notions of Turks and English shaking hands after a game of football or people like Jaws giving some credit for the progress we have made since 1945 but I believe it's the only way forward. The World Federation is the next move. I would love to come back in 500 years just to see what progress the human race has made in it's battle for world peace.The others are
Council of Ministers,
EU Commission,
Council of Ministers (described by our Foreign Office as “the EU’s most important decision-making body.”),
European Council,
European Commission,
European Court of Justice,
Court of First Instance,
Court of Auditors,
Economic and Social Committee,
Committee of the Regions.
I there is any suggestion of a conspiracy the it must be by the EU because the information emanates from them.
As for the MEPs and the EU Parliament the EU has the following to say about them,
“The European Parliament is consulted on major EU legislation while it is still in draft and can in many cases insist upon amendments to the Commission's draft. About half of these amendments are accepted by the Commission and Council on first reading (see Co-operation Procedure below) and of those amendments which are re-tabled at second reading, about a quarter are accepted. The Parliament exercises democratic control over the Commission (which it has the power to dismiss) and over expenditure by the institutions of the Union.”
Basically the Parliament has to be “consulted” but if those consulting them do not like what decisions of the MEPs then they just go ahead and ignore them.
When it comes to them having the power to “dismiss” the Commissioners that is a farce as was shown several years ago after a very large scandal involving the behaviour of certain Commissioners, who if I remember correctly, made the biggest scams of our MPs all added together look like a triviality.
The Parliament made loud noises about what was happening and decided that the handful of Commissioners involved should be dismissed. And that is when the horrible truth emerged. The could not dismiss the Commissioners who were, for want of a better word, bent, they could only dismiss the whole Commission, the good with the bad. Seeing that the Commissioners are sent by the respective Governments of the EU you can imagine the diplomatic problems from the Counties of the blameless Commissioners if they were kicked out. Basically, they cannot be pushed by the Parliament they can only volunteer top jump from their own choice.
As I said, all the MEPs can do is chat amongst themselves because they are, in effect, powerless and can do nothing themselves to change that.
.Info from, http://www.eurim.org/EURGUIDE.html
Oh, and the reason for the “progress” made since 1945 has nothing to do with the EU but a lot to do with the fact that, after almost 300 years of one or the other trying to take control of the whole of Europe by force Germany and France have declared a truce and that had more to do initially with the creation of the European Iron and Steel Community in 1951 than anything else because it ended the conflicts caused because the main sources of the raw products straddled the Franco/German Border leading to the temptation of either trying to grab control of the whole thing. The three Benelux Countries, who always got trampled underfoot in the Franco/German squabbles decided it was in their best interests to join in the UISC as did Italy another Country who had in the past centuries been caught in the middle of Franco/German wars and fallen under their domination.
As for handshakes with the Turks after football matches, if we didn't shake hands with old enemies about the only country in the World we would shake hands with would be Portugal. On second thoughts, I will have to check on Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia but I don’t recall us having fisticuffs with them.
Now, what was that about “hastens to include his own perception of today’s Europe. That’s fair enough too but once again its a very personal opinion and littered with innuendo and improvable statement”?
percy toboggan
10-Jun-09, 07:57
I was not going to vote until I saw the poll was evenly split 20 - 20.
As a man of vision I could not resist.
Few times in my relatively insignificant little life have I had the power to hold sway in such an important matter.
I hope nobody spoils it now by cancelling me out !
p.s. I went American.
Thanks to everyone who contributed or voted. The turnout and results were mostly as I expected. My friend is going to have to cough up twenty quid after he sees the result when he comes round tomorrow morning. :cool:
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