View Full Version : Could New Eye Web Site Help Us Set Up A Health Section?
Bill Fernie
23-May-09, 01:26
We have had requests from time to time with regard to setting up health related section on the forum. I am currently in touch with someone who has set up a new web site www.youreyeguide.co.uk
That site has forum similar to this one. Could some of you take look at the forum and see if a similar section for health here would be useful. Some feedback on the site would also be useful for the owner who is trying to get it going and will be adding to the new site.
Let me know what you think and any suggestions for additions that could usefully be made. I am in contact with the owner who has only recently launched this new guide and would like some feedback to help improve it and make it even more useful. I think it is already pretty good. I have made some links in a few of the health related pages in the Caithness.org links section for anyone looking for it again later.
If any of you have particular eye problems perhpas you would consider leaving some comments on the other forum also to see what resposnse you get as the site builds.
The owner will also respond here to commments on the new site.
Thanks to any of you who can help.
cheers
Bill
I thought this site was excellent, full of information and easy to use. I got more details from this site than i did from a doctor. I shall definetly use it and hope it does well, well done.
Thought I would take a look as my daughter has just been prescribed contact lenses and I was impressed at the ease to navigate the site and the way it was worded for people to understand, will put in bookmarks.
Bill,
I think having a health area on this site would be a very good idea, it would keep topics separated from the general area, and i would happily help out in a health area, and i am sure Natasha would happily post from a GP perspective also.
Andrew.
I am wary of health related websites.
Anyone can set up a website.
Anyone can set up a health related website.
Often they are just a 'front' or portal for a commercial business and their 'health' products.
How do you know the person giving such advice is medically qualified?
I would stay well clear of setting up a health forum as you will get all sorts of conflicting advice for someone's ailments.
The only place to obtain advice regarding health issues is in a 'bricks and mortar' GP's surgery or, in this instance, a qualified opticians.
You only get one set of eyes and self diagnosis of eye problems could cause irreparable damage.
Just my 2p worth....
Alice in Blunderland
23-May-09, 10:32
I would advise caution in this area. :D IMHO
General advice would probably be a good idea but anything more in depth would be better as MadPic says to attend a gp surgery.
As with the recent statins thread so many medical experts sprung from all corners of the org some with a good input from an informed background some with a good google ability. :confused
Yes, but why not get GP's, and people in the field to moderate, or have it article based, or have it as an informaiton point to services etc.
It could never be more than general information, thats common sense, given the various aspects of liability etc, but a general hub serviced by a couple of GP's etc could be helpful especially in seasonality, hay fever advice etc, or a web bot pulling info from legitimate area sources could be good.
A.
Alice in Blunderland
23-May-09, 10:46
Yes general information pulled from reliable resources this would make an interesting and helpfull section. :)
However moderation as with the main forum could be an issue.
How many Gps would be willing to give up their time to moderate a section on the org ?
GP wise i dont know, Natasha would answer the odd thing, Natasha tutors Anatomy and Physiology for my school and is therefore on email, and i had hoped at some point to add a self directed learning option to our surgery site.
AND, if it stops people from coming to us with google print outs it can only be a good thing :)
I'm with Andrew on this. I think as long as people realise it would only be general information and used their common sense I think it could be a pretty good addition to ye olde Org
I also think you would need to adopt a referencing system, such as the Harvard method where people who post information must include references and citations to their sources where applicable, so sources can be examined etc.
There would need to be some tight ground rules, and i know this from experience as i run several educational medical forums, to prevent misinformation being posted, and you definitely need some medically qualified people to moderate.
Alice in Blunderland
23-May-09, 11:44
AND, if it stops people from coming to us with google print outs it can only be a good thing :)
I dont think you will ever stop this from happening.
No, your right, and to be fair to the people with common sense, some information can be useful, especially if they get it from a good source and site, but its the other information posted by people who have no background in their field that causes the problem.
I think the key is not to necessarily discourage information and patient empowerment, but to encourage learning in a structured format. This is why we are thinking of having our own education area for DunbeathSurgery.co.uk, to allow mini self directed courses in nutrition, stress management,exercise, anatomy etc. Its stalled due to my lack of time, but its something we will definitely put in place, and it will be free to everyone in the county. The aim would be to put some podcasts, video lectures, etc.
I am wary of health related websites.
Anyone can set up a website.
Anyone can set up a health related website.
Often they are just a 'front' or portal for a commercial business and their 'health' products.
How do you know the person giving such advice is medically qualified?
I would stay well clear of setting up a health forum as you will get all sorts of conflicting advice for someone's ailments.
The only place to obtain advice regarding health issues is in a 'bricks and mortar' GP's surgery or, in this instance, a qualified opticians.
You only get one set of eyes and self diagnosis of eye problems could cause irreparable damage.
Just my 2p worth....
totally agree here....
Alice in Blunderland
23-May-09, 11:57
I also think you would need to adopt a referencing system, such as the Harvard method where people who post information must include references and citations to their sources where applicable, so sources can be examined etc..
Who will research the sources as to their authenticity and how good or bad the study which is published is. Not all sources will be creditable. I can post you information with references and citations to something which I find on the web but who is to say its genuine.
There would need to be some tight ground rules, and i know this from experience as i run several educational medical forums, to prevent misinformation being posted, and you definitely need some medically qualified people to moderate.
This will be very difficult as it would take a good few doctors to make sure the section is well moderated.
In principle I agree that a health section would be good how to run it will be tricky. :)
Well, obviously someone with general medical knowledge would need to check the source and content, and its not that difficult to check sources, as by looking at the reference, which if structured fully will have date, year, publisher etc, which is why you would need to use something like the Harvard system, which is a standard academic tool.
You would not necessarily need doctors, you could have individual with accredited knowledge and expertise, but it would need to be structured, i.e. all post being looked at before being posted.
This is easy to do with this particular forum as its run in VBulletin, and its easy to set up moderated threads and posts, and user groups etc. VBulletin is what i use for my educational forums.
However we would need 4 or 5 people participating, and the section would need a serious disclaimer introduced, and not be used for solving cases, but merely an information portal. Without individuals involved, the best situation would be a news bot or something less structured.
As i mentioned, Natasha and I would help as best we could, and we have a background in not only general medicine and complementary medicine, but education and media content delivery, but other people would need to be involved as it would be time demanding, as good as the idea is in my opinion, the reality could be very different.
This is Not a Good Idea and I think it would be a Mistake to open such a section. Too many things could go wrong and in this era of Litigation it could be expensive in more ways than one.
It makes no difference how qualified medical advice could or would be, mistakes can and will happen.
The person asking for advice might ask the wrong question and so get the wrong answer. This can happen as not everyone knows how to explain what is their problem, as I am sure you all with medical backgrounds will know.
The question you must ask is, "Who will take the Ultimate Responsibility when things go wrong?" For they will go wrong sooner or later for it is human nature to make mistakes and then blame someone else.
It is not necessary and if anyone needs Medical advise then they can phone NHS 24 hour help line, I have had to do this and found them extremely helpful and efficient.
Wouldn't it be a good idea anyway, even if it's just a support board to let people talk about their own experiences? I go to a tinnitus website and have had more info there that I have had from doctors, simply by fellow sufferers sharing their experiences and what treatments have worked for them and what have not.
Yes, but why not get GP's, and people in the field to moderate, or have it article based, or have it as an informaiton point to services etc.
It could never be more than general information, thats common sense, given the various aspects of liability etc, but a general hub serviced by a couple of GP's etc could be helpful especially in seasonality, hay fever advice etc, or a web bot pulling info from legitimate area sources could be good.
A.
Hmmmm, excuse me while I don my cynics hat...
GPs already do enough work and you expect them to do more? They going to be able to make sure that every post relating to a medical matter will be accurate and not likely to end in someone becoming even more ill or worse?
Oh, and yet more free advertising for your practice?
Hangs cynics hat back up.....
Wouldn't it be a good idea anyway, even if it's just a support board to let people talk about their own experiences? I go to a tinnitus website and have had more info there that I have had from doctors, simply by fellow sufferers sharing their experiences and what treatments have worked for them and what have not.
I think it would work in this way, I am at present using a diabetes site for advice in the same way.
I am not looking for any medical imput but I do like to chat through what others have tried, not tried etc.
Most of the boards I use have a health board and as long as people are clear it is for advice only and not a replacement for seeing your GP I think it is a great idea.
It would be great to link into local and online support.
I don't think having a GP input would help to be honest, I can see just where you are coming from Andrew but I feel it would confuse people and leave the GP vulnerable.
So I think for general chit chat advice yes, but for anything more indepth no.
But this being the org I think it would end up a string of threads with people disagreeing about what they should and shouldn't do.
The org seems to have more than it's fair share of experts on most subjects I am sure health would be no different ;)
Bobinovich
23-May-09, 13:29
A recent discussion about Fibro / M.E. / CFS led to one member creating a separate Social Group (http://forum.caithness.org/group.php?groupid=18). Certainly where there are a number of individuals with similar conditions then this is a good place for them to discuss living and coping with the same.
However I am wary of the idea of a health forum, health being one of these subjects which shouldn't be second guessed IMO. While symptoms from one case to another may be similar, a mis-diagnosis or wrong advice can do more harm than good. I feel it is much better left to a GP or pharmacist to see the patient, or even NHS24 to talk to them directly.
pinotnoir
23-May-09, 14:04
http://www.nhs24.com
Bill, dont do it. There are too many quacks out there. Leave it to the professionals. We had a sampling a few kilometers back on medicine - was it high blood pressure? - and the opinions expressed ranged from the ignorant to the mendacious. If there is one topic best left to the professionals it is health.
If you feel compelled to do this then find some way of detaching it from the forum.
Humerous Vegetable
23-May-09, 15:35
A recent discussion about Fibro / M.E. / CFS led to one member creating a separate Social Group (http://forum.caithness.org/group.php?groupid=18). Certainly where there are a number of individuals with similar conditions then this is a good place for them to discuss living and coping with the same.
However I am wary of the idea of a health forum, health being one of these subjects which shouldn't be second guessed IMO. While symptoms from one case to another may be similar, a mis-diagnosis or wrong advice can do more harm than good. I feel it is much better left to a GP or pharmacist to see the patient, or even NHS24 to talk to them directly.
I agree with you 100%. There are just too many gullible people out there who will believe all kinds of misinformation if it is delivered in a dour enough tone. It has the possibility of being seriously open to abuse.
This will give everyone a sense of the chicanery and fraudulence of health quacks. Read this and despair!
http://www.quackwatch.com/10Bio/medhunters.html
I also think this is a good idea. If people have an illness sometimes sharing it with others helps immensely. They can get other folks experiences of their experience of particular illness, as long as it is understood that they are not getting a diagnosis and seek appropriate help via their GP.
With some illnesses general websites don't always have the more personalised answer you are looking for real life experience. I hope i am making sense here.
this is a more complete quackwatch listing with links
http://www.quackwatch.com/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html
As i mentioned any such forum would to have a clear guideline and function. No forum should ever allow a medical diagnosis, that would be crazy and highly inappropriate, however a forum if structured properly, and ran by people with legitimate experience and qualification could offer topics on various areas, such as highlighting a mental health week, a healthy heart week etc, articles on healthy eating etc.
In its own section it would not be lost amongst a variety of posts, and could be very beneficial, and could be set so that general discussion is not allowed, but submitted articles could. This would be a good service to a community, especially a rural community.
Surely this is a wind up?
Itll be interesting to know what the insurance premiums would be.
Alice in Blunderland
23-May-09, 17:50
this is a more complete quackwatch listing with links
http://www.quackwatch.com/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html
This will give everyone a sense of the chicanery and fraudulence of health quacks. Read this and despair!
http://www.quackwatch.com/10Bio/medhunters.html
Am I right in thinking that this is links to American sites where once again the medical set up is a whole different ball game than the UK.
Alice in Blunderland
23-May-09, 17:53
.No forum should ever allow a medical diagnosis, that would be crazy and highly inappropriate,
I dont think any doctor would ever give a diagnosis over a web site. I could be wrong but call it a hunch any good doctor would want a consultation in person. :)
It can be nice for people to ask others their experiences of problems, but as other have pointed out you have to be wary of people asking 'what is this?' etc.. But it is the internet, I somehow doubt that someone will stop at the Org, if they want to ask or scare themselves there are plenty of websites for that!
From my POV, we get alot of people in who have heard myths they believe to be facts about the eyes, contact lenses and glasses etc all the time. Alot of people are too embaressed to ask or don't get the time so forums can be good for that.
I don't want to say I would moderate etc but I would be willing to pass on questions about eye health etc and get answers from optometrists.
Quackwatch is indeed predominantly American. Admittedly the US healthcare system is a total shambles.
Nevertheless, the same cranks, faddists and nut cases also have a presence in the UK.
Any discussion of an ORG health section would have to deal with the need to keep the content free of the cultists. Also I am concerned that someone might act on misinformation and end up dead.
It would be a full time job for someone to filter out the rubbish - it can be done but it would require strict supervision.
Perhaps the Org could list some responsible sites - like the visual health site -and let it go at that.
I know someone who has had her health ruined by one of these online 'mail order' quacks. She went looking for a solution to a problem she was suffering and ended up taking advice and medicines from someone in New York (she lives in the US).
I don't think she ever saw him face to face.
Looking at that eyesight site it seems to be pushing laser treatment - the whole 'balance' of the site makes me wonder what it is for.
Laser treatment is not for everyone and, again, I know of someone who has had treatment on their eyes and while one eye is OK they are having problems with the other. This was done at a Vision Express 'clinic'. I don't know if it has been sorted out yet.
This site is giving general information. Some of the content is technical.It cannot replace a qualified Opthalmologist. If people are worred about their eye health they could read up on this site and seek medical advice.
The danger of these information sites is some people end up self diagnosing diseases on the basis of symptoms.
On the issue of a health site on the org. I am not in favour of this on the grounds that it would be very difficult to monitor the contents of the linked sites and what information certain people would post.
It would cause undue stress in the majority of worried 'wells'.
For example before qualification some medical students I knew when reading up on certain diseases became convinced they were suffering from these symptoms, perfectly healthy students.
Linking into sites which may seem good could be damaging due to the fact that ,how to tell they are legitimate.
YourEyeGuide
24-May-09, 10:32
Hi everyone, firstly - thank you for your comments and i hope that you will continue to use Your Eye Guide (http://www.youreyeguide.co.uk/) as a reference point. I see that this has opened up a whole new debate for caithness.org. Forums are difficult to moderate for spam messages and then there is the separate issue of the validity of the information posted. I absolutely agree with A_Usher, with tight moderation a health forum can give people a lot of support and guidance.
Alice in Blunderland
24-May-09, 11:26
I absolutely agree with A_Usher, with tight moderation a health forum can give people a lot of support and guidance.
Most people seem to agree that an information section wouldnt be that bad however tight moderation is the issue. :)
This takes time and effort and knowledge from the individuals tasked with this on top of everything else they do. :)
cuddlepop
24-May-09, 11:33
This was discussed before and agreed it would take up too much time/require strict moderation etc so the social groups were suggested as an alternative.
Some "vulnerable" individuals are too easily mislead sometimes totally unintentionally.
I've banned my daughter from all "health information" web sites for this same reason.
Her Gp or nurse is the only person she will initially ask a query of.:)
Hi everyone, firstly - thank you for your comments and i hope that you will continue to use Your Eye Guide (http://www.youreyeguide.co.uk/) as a reference point. I see that this has opened up a whole new debate for caithness.org. Forums are difficult to moderate for spam messages and then there is the separate issue of the validity of the information posted. I absolutely agree with A_Usher, with tight moderation a health forum can give people a lot of support and guidance.
Although there may seem to be a few negative comments here re your site, I for one, found it very informative. Recently I had two cataract operations. This condition dosen't only affect the elderly, as some people think. I'm far from being an OAP and I found myself needing this op. in both eyes. Medical staff are brilliant at answering questions but haven't been through the experience themselves. Patients understand their condition but can be very nervous about the whole surgery thing particularly because its done while you're awake. I know personally that discussion with others who had had the surgery, helped me to eventually make the decision to go ahead and have it done. Before that I struggled on nearly blind because of fear. Support and guidance from others who have been through the experience can be beneficial. Forums are a good way of finding out this type of information. It's up to each individual whether they believe it or not. If I had any medical questions or concerns however, I may check information out on a website but would always refer same to a qualified consultant or practitioner.
Hi everyone, firstly - thank you for your comments and i hope that you will continue to use Your Eye Guide (http://www.youreyeguide.co.uk/) as a reference point. I see that this has opened up a whole new debate for caithness.org. Forums are difficult to moderate for spam messages and then there is the separate issue of the validity of the information posted. I absolutely agree with A_Usher, with tight moderation a health forum can give people a lot of support and guidance.
Why does your website seem heavily weighted towards laser treatment?
What qualifications do you hold?
Mad Pict has it right.
The ORG does not need to open itself up to back door advertising.
There are responsible web sites providing helpful information. Such web sites are usually - but not always - run by the medical specialties and their related charities.
As in this case.
Declaration of interest here - I work for this organization!
http://www.heartandstroke.com/site/c.ikIQLcMWJtE/b.2796497/k.BF8B/Home.htm?src=home
Is it not the case that a lot of people already go on the internet, diagnose themselves and then present to their GP with all sorts of sinister lurking problems?
Bill Fernie
25-May-09, 09:35
Thanks for all the input folks. I have considered all of the comments and have decided not to set up a separate health section. There would appear to be too many pitfalls and the great weight of this debate is against the idea.
There are in any case many web sites with medical advice and information.
For the time being we will leave medical matters and dicussions in the general forum as they have been in the past.
Thanks to everyone for the input - it was very useful
I think these sites are useful AFTER you have been diagnosed with a problem, as then you can find out further details AFTER seeing your gp. I advise on a site for heart patients run by the British Heart Foundation, but it is for people who can help others with the same problem as themselves but not medical advise.Mostly asking other heart patients about surgery as they are waiting for surgery themselves or about scarring etc. I think sites run very well like this, to help each other, but not for giving out diagnoses etc.
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