View Full Version : Alcohol purchasing age???
Am I missing something here?
An 18yr old can legally consume alcohol but if he/she doesn't look 21yrs old they can be asked to provide proof of age, and it will be sold to them? So the age 21 rule is playing on the safe side? Or has the legal purchasing age been increased? Does this include pubs/clubs?
So why now this 25yr age rule?
Is it just Tesco applying the rule or is it all licenced premises?
Is it just Scotland or the whole of the U.K.?
I'm 44 but Tesco will refuse to sell it to me if I have my 12yr old son with me? Again, is this rule across the board or only if you look 'dodgy'?
I've always been under the assumption that a parent can give their child an alcoholic drink at home only, not sure of the age rule though. At 16 they can get married and have children but aren't allowed a drink to celebrate unless at home, am I right?
Has the legal drinking or purchasing age been increased?
I'm gonna stop now cos I'm confused. :confused
I am confused about this too!
The other weekend I got asked how old I was in Tesco, told them my age of 26 then they said oh well can I see your ID....couldn't believe you now have to look 25 to buy it considering you can drink it at 18yrs....so is it if you look under 25 you get asked but as long as your ID says your 18 its okay?!
To be honest it must be quite difficult to judge if someone is 25, probably easier trying to guess if someone is 18yrs old and i'm sure they wouldn't offend so many people by asking them!
Katy x
Sapphire2803
10-May-09, 15:56
Am I missing something here?
An 18yr old can legally consume alcohol but if he/she doesn't look 21yrs old they can be asked to provide proof of age, and it will be sold to them? So the age 21 rule is playing on the safe side? Or has the legal purchasing age been increased? Does this include pubs/clubs?
So why now this 25yr age rule?
Is it just Tesco applying the rule or is it all licenced premises?
Is it just Scotland or the whole of the U.K.?
I'm 44 but Tesco will refuse to sell it to me if I have my 12yr old son with me? Again, is this rule across the board or only if you look 'dodgy'?
I've always been under the assumption that a parent can give their child an alcoholic drink at home only, not sure of the age rule though. At 16 they can get married and have children but aren't allowed a drink to celebrate unless at home, am I right?
Has the legal drinking or purchasing age been increased?
I'm gonna stop now cos I'm confused. :confused
Just to add to the confusion:
Children over 14 can consume alcohol (e.g. glass of wine) in licensed premises as long as it is with a meal.
18 is still the Minimum Age to be able to buy alcohol. Since it is very difficult to tell a persons age, ie if thy are 16 or 18 years of age and also the ease with which anyone with a Printer can make an ID, then due to this they brought in the 21 or 25 years rule. This was just to cover the sellers as if some looked 25 then they are more than likely to be 18 or over.
Same goes with an adult with a child. They do not know what relation the child is to you and they do not know what you intend to do with the alcohol. So to be safe they might not sell alcohol to you if you have a 12 year old boy with you, even if he is your son.
These rules are just that, rules and not Law and have been brought in by the Companies concerned, just to cover their own and Staff's back.
Please remember, just because a shop displays something for sale they do have to sell it to you, if they for one reason or another decide not to.
tomacomen
10-May-09, 16:24
"....and also the ease with which anyone with a Printer can make an ID" sorry, but thats totally wrong. If you go for a night out in any city you'll find that the only forms of ID accepted are passport, drivers license or one of those government "prove it" age cards. without one of these forms, you aint gettin in. Thats pretty much for everyone that goes through the door too.
I dont see the point of causing embarressment and wasting time by using the "think 25" thing, "think 21" was bad enough. Its not that hard to tell how old people are from both the way they look, and normally from what their buying. The whole thing of not selling booze to a parent if their teenage kid is with them is hellish, i know for sure that my mam n dad never bought me booze when i was underage!
Jox, I don't know where you coming from here, you, until now have always appeared to be a sensible adult.
Everyone knows that there is a major underage drinking problem, especially here is Scotland. The "think 25" rule was brought in by the Alcohol Retail Industry to try and solve or stop the under age purchasing alcohol from an Off License.
I was approached recently by a couple of approx 13 year olds out side an Asian owned Off License, with the phrase "hey mister, gonna buy us some cider". When I politely refused, I was subjected to a torrent of 4 letter words.
The over 25 rule stops this happening hopefully, but scheming little tow rags will always find methods of getting around this.
In my young day we never had so many off licensed premises, if I wished a "kerry oot" I had to go to a public house to purchase alcohol.
I would curtail the issuing of Off Licenses.
see the links below from the drinks and commercial trade.
http://www.wsta.co.uk/Press/Retail-industry-introduces-Challenge-25-on-alcohol-sales.html
http://www.morrisons.co.uk/Corporate/Corporate-Social-Responsibility-2009/Policy-Guidance/Alcohol/
http://www.about-asda.com/health/sensible-drinking.asp
http://www.talkingretail.com/news/industry-news/11953-retailers-launch-challenge-25-alcohol-scheme.html
"....and also the ease with which anyone with a Printer can make an ID" sorry, but thats totally wrong. If you go for a night out in any city you'll find that the only forms of ID accepted are passport, drivers license or one of those government "prove it" age cards. without one of these forms, you aint gettin in. Thats pretty much for everyone that goes through the door too.
I dont see the point of causing embarressment and wasting time by using the "think 25" thing, "think 21" was bad enough. Its not that hard to tell how old people are from both the way they look, and normally from what their buying. The whole thing of not selling booze to a parent if their teenage kid is with them is hellish, i know for sure that my mam n dad never bought me booze when i was underage!
You did not read what I posted correctly. I never mentioned anywhere about going for a Night Out, ie Bars and Clubs etc.
Also if you think that the ID Cards can not be copied then you are living in a world of your own.
Also you are very wrong to say it is not hard to tell how old people are from both the way they look, and normally from what their buying. What a Laugh.
I know a young Girl is only 15 years of age but looks and acts like she is at least 20.
So your parents did not buy you any alcohol, quite right too. Yet again you did not read what I posted correctly.
I said that they, that is the shop assistant, do not know what relation the child is to you and they do not know what you intend to do with the alcohol. Since they do not know what the relationship is, if any that is, between you and the chhild. They can not take any chances of what you intend to do with the alcohol.
I believe that these steps that the Supermarkets taking are perfectly Valid and should cut down the sale of alcohol to anyone under age.
Years ago I had a friend, we were the same age, and John was always getting asked for I.D. because he looked about 16, yet we were in our early 20's. As we then became known in the pubs it wasn't too much of a problem unless there was new bar staff or we went to a strange pub. He didn't have problem with it, as he said, when he's older at least he won't look 'old'. :)
I think the under 21 rule is fine, changing it to 25 is going too far. The whole purchasing/consumption laws are crazy anyway-why not make it across the board an age that you can legally buy and consume alcohol. You'll always have underage drinkers, I did it myself, but not to excess the way they do these days. It's the culture of alcohol use that has to change more than the age at which it can be bought.
Personally, I think they should just ask everyone to provide proof of age regardless of how old they look. I mean, you get some old people that look like 10 year olds because of growth problems so who's saying you can't get a 10 year old that looks like they are 60 years old?
... Ok I'm not actually being serious... but...
I don't see why so many people have problems providing proof of age for buying alcohol - what harm does it cause if you have nothing to hide? I have more respect for companies who do this than those who let people of all ages buy alcohol like some of the pubs up here - the conversations you can home in on at school would shock you (...or maybe they wouldn't).
I don't think it's so much the providing proof of age to purchase the alcohol that folk have a problem with it's the fact that they get refused for having an under aged child/person with them. When I go shopping I take my children with me it doesn't mean that the bottle of wine in my trolley is for them!! I understand that the cashier doesn't know if these people with you are related or not but at the same time as long as the cashier has sold the alcohol to a person over the age of 18 there is not a lot else they can do.
I have no problem being asked for ID, I just think it is stupid to ID me if my children are with me incase the alcohol is for them.
I would imagine any adult who is buying alcohol for someone underage would have the savvy to leave them outside the shop.
So really IDing those who are obviously over 18 (like me) simply because I may be purchasing for someone underage is a waste of time.
They brought in the Think21 policy because it filtered out people who were younger but looked older. However, in my personal opinion high schoolers are looking much older now and it's harder to filter out. You did mention that you can get fake ID's made, as a matter of fact you can easily get one off the internet for a tenner. By making it Think25 it means more people get asked therefore it's less likely people will slip through the cracks as it were. It's a way of being safe, as if an underager gets alcohol and ends up in hospital then the blame can instantly be put on to the shop that sold them it. Especially with the younger generations drink culture, kids are taking alcohol at a much younger age and if you walk down the street on a friday/saturday night you can see that for yourself. It is trying to help the problem but obviously it's not going to get rid of it.
So really IDing those who are obviously over 18 (like me) simply because I may be purchasing for someone underage is a waste of time.
Not necessarily, it means that they asked you for ID and means they aren't at fault, only if they don't know you're buying for underagers, but they can't possibly know that so it means the supermarket is safe from scrutiny.
Having been a licensee for many years, I more seen more fake ID cards than I have hot dinners, at one point even fake driving licences were readily available.
I can well understand the supermarkets upping the age to 25yrs, with Sainsbury's,Tesco's, The Co-op all having lost their licences for periods of up to a month and then having the authorities breathing down their necks for another three, it's hardly surprising.
Having worked with both the police and licencing on the problem and how to deal with it, there seems to be no obvious way appart from extreme vigilance on behalf of those selling alcohol and despite everything done on the education front there still exists a culture amongst some of the young that breaking the law is a challenge and not just in relation to the purchase of alcohol.
One thing that was done in this city was to have a dedicated few police officers with a direct phone number who could be contacted in the event of trouble or in the event of repeated problems they would be on patrol in an area requested by the licencee at a certain time.It did work to a certain extent in that that area would be trouble free for a period but the problem moved else where.
The only way it will ever be beaten is as and when it is no longer considered a laugh by under age drinkers as they pick their friends up out of the gutter.
May be for those who do think it is fun, a night in casualty watching others being pumped out when they have over indulged or worse gone into a coma might have a sobering effect but I very much doubt it.
Unfortunately until attitudes change the resposible majority will find ever more stringent rules being applied.
I was asked for ID a couple of weeks ago when buying alcohol at Tesco and was very surprised. I knew about the age 21 thing but not the new rule - if you look 25 or under you get asked for ID. Anyway I felt really embarassed and so did the checkout girl when she worked out how old I really am from my drivers license - nearly 30!! :eek: Maybe she was just playing it safe or maybe I do dress and act more like someone several years younger - who knows! But at least with this law (hopefully) less underage youths will be able to buy alcohol... ;)
tomacomen
10-May-09, 17:57
Kodiak i didnt mean to offend with what i said, but i think your living in a bit of a "walter mitty" world if you think that ID can be easily copied.
Every year there are THOUSANDS of fake ID's seized by bouncers, coppers, pubs etc. These are then distributed to most places that sell alcohol to show typical fake designs. I know from my own experience in the past that it was easy to photoshop a passport design and say "oh i dinny have a drivers license", however now that people are aware of photoshopping, home conterfeiting, most reputable place will only accept proven forms of ID, i.e drivers license card, real passport, prove it card.
The types of ID bought off the internet often resemble university matriculation cards and are even a poor fake of them. For 10 quid your not gonna get anything but a bit of plastic with a hologram laminate and your picture stuck underneath. I also speak from experience here too ;)
I do believe that it is easy to tell someones age, especially when you take into account of mannerisms etc when buying alcohol. I know that most teens are brickin it when they go to attempt to buy booze underage!
I understand that girls can often be more mature than boys of the same age. When you look a little bit more into what actual types of alcohol teenagers are buying you begin to notice that its more often than not the cheapest of the cheap, the brightest of the bright and the thing most likely to get you blitzed off your face.
Im 21 myself and I find it rather easy to distinguish who's the same age as me, whos younger , whos older etc. Yes, there are often occasions where you can get it wrong, but these are the often ones where you are unsure anyways.
What i was proposing was using common sense for a change, not a blanket enforcement of ID'ing anyone under 30 but using good judgement to think "does this person look over 18/21" then asking yourself "am i sure" and then asking for ID and ONLY accepting valid forms.
im not trying to cause an argument here, but i think your just a little out of touch with whats happening around the country.
grumpyhippo
10-May-09, 18:07
Whilst shopping with Ms Grumpy I complained that the shop assistant hadn't asked for proof of age since we were buying wine. The assistant pointed out that since I was with a responsible adult my ID wasn't needed. Fair point I thought.:lol::lol:
Margaret M.
10-May-09, 18:50
I do believe that it is easy to tell someones age, especially when you take into account of mannerisms etc when buying alcohol.
I totally disagree and when losing a licence is the penalty for a wrong guess, why should any employee risk it?
If i guessed it and got it wrong, i'd be expecting up to a £5000 fine and the shop could lose its alcohol license. I'm sure both me and the shopowner would be chuffed to bits [disgust]
Invisible
10-May-09, 18:52
I got ID'd for alcohol free, becks the other day.
butterfly
10-May-09, 19:58
[quote=tomacomen;546698]
I do believe that it is easy to tell someones age, especially when you take into account of mannerisms etc when buying alcohol. I know that most teens are brickin it when they go to attempt to buy booze underage!
Thats rubbish.If it was easy to tell someones age the" think 25" rule wouldnt be needed.Any teen standing with mates choosing alcohol can be reminded that they will need id before they reach the tills as well.
butterfly
10-May-09, 20:14
Any member of a store/shop/pub/club are required by law to help prevent crime and disorder,public nuisance,help secure public safety,protect children from harm and protect and improve health withins Scotland.All organisations and individuals in the licensing industry must uphold these five licensing objectives.Failure to do so could result in their license being revoked,personal prosecution or even a prison sentence.
The "think 25 " rule was brought in because it is quite difficult for the seller to gauge how old the buyer of alcohol is.
tomacomen
10-May-09, 21:26
i guess we'll just have to respect each others opinions on this one.
Sorry to deviate off topic, but "improve health" within scotland? where is this guff coming from?! the scottish government perhaps? why isnt there a ban on junk food then!
i reckon we really should just ban booze all together, imagine the money that we could save! enough to get out of this place!:lol:
Tesco's did me a favour not so long ago as i got asked for ID(i'm 26).
Didnt have my drivin license on me so ended up goin to Coop and getting the same drink but a lot cheaper :D
butterfly
11-May-09, 21:04
[quote=tomacomen;546822]Sorry to deviate off topic, but "improve health" within scotland? where is this guff coming from?!
That "guff" as you call it comes from the licensing board.
The Law States that you must be 18 to buy alcohol. You can be refused and asked for ID if you appear to be under 21.
If you are thought to have persons with you or buying for persons under 18 you can be refused.
But then again the law actually says nothing as far as i know about the CONSUMPTION of Alcohol. So to my complete understanding, you must be 18 to buy but if you appear suspicious or under 18 they can ask for id. But having said that, if you 19 and they say you look under 21, when you show them your ID and it says 19, why say "You look under 21" when the drinking age is 18? Im confused :(
I think it's a load of nonsense. Think 21, Think 25. What next? Think 30?
It is preposterous to have a "Look" 25 mantra, when you can legally purchase alcohol some 7 years earlier. It is the usual government Cack to make it look like they are doing something about under-age drinking, when the simple remedy is to address the fact that alcohol is cheaper than Fanta. Forget Think 21, Forget Think 25. Substitute the simple word "Think"
Picture the scenario:-
"Oi, you, you don't look 25 to me"
"Perhaps that is because I am 24"
"Oh!!"
"Right, are you going to sell me this wine or are you going to fart about pretending that your employer doesn't LOVE selling cheap drink?"
The legal age to buy alcohol is 18. This may be changing in the future to 21 in shops and 18 in pubs.
I'll copy a bit of a previous post of mine in another thread...
With Tescos' 'think 21' changing to 'think 25' on 25th May I can only suggest that people start bringing proof of age with them when coming to any shop to buy an age restricted product. Many forms of ID are accepted such as Driving licence, passport, citizencard or any ID card with the 'Pass' hologram and photographic ID.
Customer assistants and the store can be prosecuted and/or fined up to £5000 and the customer assistant will also get a criminal record for selling to somebody under age. I dont think any customer assistant would want that.
You can apply for a citizenscard online here: http://www.citizencard.com/
All you have to do is remember to bring ID with you and you will be fine. If you are over 18 of course.
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