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percy toboggan
09-May-09, 20:04
Have you seen the bigger piggies?

....The recent revelations have my blood boiling.

Gravy train leeches exposed as ripping us all off. From claiming for the smallest items of household goods to hundreds of pounds for cleaning antique rugs. Building up property portfolios on expenses and then benefitting from rising house prices.

A Luton M.P. buys a second home further away from London than her own place in Herfordshire!! What is happening here?


Perhaps if I was not currently on Statutory sick pay of seventy-nine quid a week and did not have to pay prescription charges - such as £7-20 for bloody wound dressings the other week I might feel a little less bitter.
Right now I'm hopping mad. EVen allowing for the dodgy hip!

I have made my own representative clear as to my feelings and urge you all to do so too.

Never has the system in this country been held in such dis-repute by the common people, never has there been such a disconnect between us, and those who are meant to serve US - but merely see the Westminster power trip as a good way to feather their own nests.

The worst transgressors should be sacked.

Tristan
09-May-09, 20:31
It is disgusting.
On BBC today one guest pointed out if you were on benefits and made a much smaller error than some of these cretin you would probably be doing time.

Rheghead
09-May-09, 20:42
What are the worst cases of greed?

poppett
09-May-09, 21:11
Percy that is awful having to pay for dressings whilst on SSP. I thought SSP was one of the exemptions on prescription charges. Can the GP nurse not supply the dressings to you for free?

My OH had open wounds for nine months following a blood clot post of three cancer ops. God forbid if we had been forced to pay for everything he needed then as he had five different items on prescription used every time the dressings were changed which was up to three times a day in the first two months, then gradually less and less whilst the wound healed from inside.

Hope you are on the mend.

squidge
10-May-09, 00:01
Its appalling but not exactly surprising. How many of us finding we were ENTITLED to claim all these expenses would say - no thanks. The fault lies with the system that allows expenses for silk cushions and toilet seats. What is appalling is that this system was drawn up by MPs for MPs not that people claim what they are entitled to claim. Seems to me that a system like this should be drawn up by an independant body or they should be entitled to the same expenses a civil servant would get. If the government thinks a system is good enough for a civil servant then it should be good enough for the government itself.

buddyrich
10-May-09, 00:05
The horror. You mean to say that politicians might be abusing the system for their own ends, and are telling lies about it????

TO THE BOATS!

butterfly
10-May-09, 00:11
It made my blood boil too Percy,one mp even got her dry rot in her house sorted and another bought a house 100 miles away from her constituency.It seems they are only in it for what they can claim.Why does our goverment let them away with it.[disgust]

buddyrich
10-May-09, 00:17
Because they are the government.

The sham of party politics and the obsession with celebrity and fame holds us all in its thrall while the real scum are sucking on the public nipple.

It seems like a pretty good racket actually. Way better than working for a living.

alex
10-May-09, 00:30
Never has the system in this country been held in such dis-repute by the common people, never has there been such a disconnect between us, and those who are meant to serve US .

When I first glanced at that sentence I thought the Bush Blair days were back (capitilisation of US confused me).

But then I fantasised I'm back in Africa and nothing's changed.

And then I thought, how stupid we all are to put up with this atrocious behaviour. These people's representatives bleating about behaving within the rules when they are the ones who make rules that nobody in the commercial or any other sensible world would contemplate let alone tolerate!

If I had ever, in my limited life as an expenses claimer put in a claim for a toilet seat, questions would have been asked. For a second toilet seat, I can only guess at the company accountant's opinion... Later when I was the boss, scrutinising expenses, people got fired for excess mileage on their vehicles but allowances were allowed (they got a price for accomodation and if they chose to sleep in the car and starve, they could keep the money) but if they turned up for a morning appointment any less than chipper - they were fired!

Does anyone now actually trust these peoples' representatives to make decisions on our behalf that effect us every day?

As far as I can tell only Hillary Benn has come out clean at this stage...

MadPict
10-May-09, 10:45
Take care if you're hopping mad on one good hip Perc...

The fact that these people have tried their damnedest to suppress publication of their expenses and that the Speaker sat in over all charge of the committee to sort it out while being as bad as the politicians speaks volumes for the mindset of these people.

Claiming for something just because you can is as corrupt in my eyes as claiming something fraudulently, if the bill is being footed by the taxpayer. Politicians are supposed to be above reproach but this latest round of sleaze exposés has set back the question of their integrity by decades.
I fully realise that there are honest MPs among the 'piggies' and I hope that they drive through the necessary changes with the utmost urgency to try and get the public trust for our elected representatives back to where it should be.

One thing is for certain, NuLabour, with their promises of "no more sleaze" have managed to eclipse the previous bunch and make their transgressions look like dipping your fingers into the pik'n'mix shelf in Woolies.....

Perhaps Percy would like to join? http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/

percy toboggan
10-May-09, 12:34
Take care if you're hopping mad on one good hip Perc...



...Perhaps Percy would like to join? http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/

thanks for the link...I'll have a look.

bekisman
12-May-09, 15:57
I've been thinking about all this hullabaloo about Members of Parliament claiming dubious expenses, but really is it fair? bearing in mind that a General Practitioner earns between £53,249 to £80,354, whilst those who give service to our country as a member of Parliament in this Mother of Democracies are only on an annual salary of £64,766 - some £40,000 less than the CEO of the RSPCA.
Who amongst us would spent hour upon hour in Westminster debating issues, Countless hours in their offices and travelling around their constituencies holding surgeries for the voters they represent.
Is it any wonder that at times minor indiscretions or genuine mistakes are made in returning expenses claims - they are human after all. I am sure there are many reading these forums who have made errors, however small or slight they may seem - is it not understandable that overwork and tiredness may well play a role in compilation?
Having a second home is understandable, how otherwise is it possible to attend Parliament and be present for Divisions, if one's home is outwith the capital?
Serving our country as an MP is a thankless task - made more so by the recent betrayal of the Telegraph against these hard working folk - how many of this broadsheet's staff fill in their expenses correctly I ask?

Anyway, it'll be something like that for the greedy gits to justify it - I personally think they are having a larf - at our expense - maybe they should collectively apply for a very large trough so they can all get their snouts in.!

tonkatojo
12-May-09, 22:04
what is an even bigger laugh is seeing the party leaders vying for attention, how they will order their party members to repay, what they have been caught out fiddling. NO mention of the years gone past in the trough of plenty. I suppose those years don't count seeing as they didn't get caught out huh. Perhaps "laugh" is the wrong word or words but I would get into trouble if I was to express my true feelings on the ORG. [disgust]

cuthill
12-May-09, 22:06
Its no wonder the country is in the state its in with that lot making the rules themselves for there expences,i think its totaly imoral what they have done when most of the country is struggling to just get by.And its not just one party its the whole lot of them Guy Fawkes had the right idea.

loobyloo
12-May-09, 22:12
I think they're just a reflection of our society as a whole. If they were working for a private company and it wasn't 'taxpayer's money', it would be cool.
I agree with Stephen Fry. Never thought I'd say that.

percy toboggan
13-May-09, 07:27
I think they're just a reflection of our society as a whole. If they were working for a private company and it wasn't 'taxpayer's money', it would be cool.
I agree with Stephen Fry. Never thought I'd say that.

Personally I took Fry's protestations with a degree of umbrage.

I have never fiddled anybody out of false expenses claims and his opinions on this are typical of his arrogant atittudes in general. He seems willing to turn a blind eye to flagrant excess and corruption on a monumental scale. If the public cannot trust M.P's to be honest in matters of day to day personal finance then the whole rotten system will come crashing down.

Where will this leave arty-farty commentators and ten bob bon-vivants like Fry? Hopefully swinging on a jibbet....or
Twittering his lamentable tosh as the barricades go up.

(sorry - I've over reacted again )

rich
13-May-09, 14:59
Look here, Percy Toboggan, as a well paid political speech writer my time is better spent drafting peerless prose than cleaning my own moat or installing the chandeliers. For God's sake man, stop complaining - do you expect me to tune my own Steinway Grand?
This is simply another display of political correctness on your part. For shame!

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/politiciansexpenses/Tory-expenses-Clearing-moats-hanging.5256066.jp

scorrie
13-May-09, 16:37
Personally I took Fry's protestations with a degree of umbrage.

I have never fiddled anybody out of false expenses claims and his opinions on this are typical of his arrogant atittudes in general. He seems willing to turn a blind eye to flagrant excess and corruption on a monumental scale. If the public cannot trust M.P's to be honest in matters of day to day personal finance then the whole rotten system will come crashing down.

Where will this leave arty-farty commentators and ten bob bon-vivants like Fry? Hopefully swinging on a jibbet....or
Twittering his lamentable tosh as the barricades go up.

(sorry - I've over reacted again )

By his own admission, Stephen Fry used to steal from his fellow pupils. He also did three months in prison for fraud. No doubt, just jolly schoolboy japes that got out of hand!!

scorrie
13-May-09, 16:39
By the way, I heard Charles Kennedy claimed £5000 for cocktail olives ;)

rich
13-May-09, 19:30
He is allergic both to champagne and bumble bee stings.
Also he is Jewish and Gay.
That would seem quite enough misery for him without being attacked on the Caithness. org.
Most small minded people can usually manage a bit of entertaining gossip but that seems beyond the closet sadists of the ORG.
Sad really....

scorrie
13-May-09, 22:18
He is allergic both to champagne and bumble bee stings.
Also he is Jewish and Gay.
That would seem quite enough misery for him without being attacked on the Caithness. org.
Most small minded people can usually manage a bit of entertaining gossip but that seems beyond the closet sadists of the ORG.
Sad really....

Yes, you are rather sad rich. Can't see your own bull for your inflated ego. Quite why you bother showing up here is a mystery. Very few have much interest in your ramblings.


Whaaaat? £50 for a taxi from The Camps to The Crown!! What kind of twister charges that?

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/scorrie57/fry-cab_1003139c.jpg

rich
14-May-09, 00:05
"very fiew" is good enough for me, Scorre. Counts as a bumper audience really...and Scorrie this terrific indignation that you indulge here on the Org has it's own eery fascination. Why all the venting? It is futile and juvenile. Learn to accept the world as it is.

tonkatojo
14-May-09, 08:36
Why all the venting? It is futile and juvenile. Learn to accept the world as it is.[/QUOTE]

I think you should practice what you preach, find a different soapbox and plant it on Dunnet beach, December to February would be good months for you. The odd surfer or horse rider might give you some listening time.

percy toboggan
14-May-09, 09:47
By his own admission, Stephen Fry used to steal from his fellow pupils. He also did three months in prison for fraud. No doubt, just jolly schoolboy japes that got out of hand!!

I had no idea !
Revealing stuff.
He's a man I cannot warm to at all.
In comparison, dear befuddled rich might appear quite cuddly.

Green_not_greed
14-May-09, 10:03
Getting away from Steven Fry and back to the greedy snouts.....

Now we have another labour MP in the news - former Minister Elliot Morley - who has claimed £800 a month for 18 months against a mortgage which did not exist! He's said to have paid the money back saying it was a mistake. One mistake? Surely expenses claims are made more than every 18 months? Sounds like deliberate and consistent fraud to me. He should be charged and forced to resign as an MP.

I am in complete agreement with Percy Toboggan here - the culprits should be made to pay in full. And I don't just mean the money side - if they have made fraudulent claims, they should be charged with fraud as anyone else would be. And as they have doubtlessly brought their "employers" into disrepute as a result of their activities, they should also be sacked.

rich
14-May-09, 14:44
Transparency is the answer. Every MP should have a complete accounting of their expenses accessible to the public. Just as a matter of interest has anyone checked out John Thurso?

Green_not_greed
14-May-09, 16:01
John Thurso MP appears to be one of the better MPs for expenses.

Check out

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/john_thurso/caithness,_sutherland_and_easter_ross#expenses

Pretty excellent when you consider that he's one of the furthest travelled MPs

scorrie
14-May-09, 17:03
"very fiew" is good enough for me, Scorre. Counts as a bumper audience really...and Scorrie this terrific indignation that you indulge here on the Org has it's own eery fascination. Why all the venting? It is futile and juvenile. Learn to accept the world as it is.

Before YOU try to tackle something as major as accepting the "World" as it is, perhaps you could work on the simpler task of accepting the "Org" as IT is first. Perhaps if you could do that you might be able to demonstrate that you, yourself, have the ability to tackle the more difficult task and give you some credibility as an advisor to others, a qualification which currently is laughably absent from your CV.

lister
14-May-09, 17:28
Getting away from Steven Fry and back to the greedy snouts.....

Now we have another labour MP in the news - former Minister Elliot Morley - who has claimed £800 a month for 18 months against a mortgage which did not exist! He's said to have paid the money back saying it was a mistake. One mistake? Surely expenses claims are made more than every 18 months? Sounds like deliberate and consistent fraud to me. He should be charged and forced to resign as an MP.

I am in complete agreement with Percy Toboggan here - the culprits should be made to pay in full. And I don't just mean the money side - if they have made fraudulent claims, they should be charged with fraud as anyone else would be. And as they have doubtlessly brought their "employers" into disrepute as a result of their activities, they should also be sacked.
I wholeheartedly agree here, what we need is the criminals(MPs) brought to justice and thrown in the nick just like we would experience if we consistently defrauded and stole from the public purse.[disgust]

Green_not_greed
14-May-09, 19:52
Well well.

It appears that Elliot Morley - now suspended on full pay, was Gordon Brown's International Climate Change Envoy, and previously held posts as Minister for the Environment (2003) and Minister for Climate Change (2005). He has only been suspended as Brown's climate change envoy, and remains chairman of the energy and climate select committee.

In the Tory camp, Greg Barker - the shadow climate change minister - has said he will now pay capital gains tax on the sale of both properties he has owned in London since becoming an MP.

With these two as examples, is it any surprise that wind energy developers bend the truth more than a little and don't give a damn about anything other than their financial returns?

rich
14-May-09, 20:36
The expense data is quite brilliant.
I see that John Thurso ran up three thousand five hundred and ninety-five quid on RAIL TRAVEL.
I heartilly approve of that especially if it was by train from Thurso to London.
I can imagine him hidden behind his copy of the Caithness Courier with his wee sandwich bag and a 500 page novel as the train grinds past Forsinard.
He would be striving no doubt to steer clear of Orgers wagging accusatory fingers at him...

teenybash
14-May-09, 20:52
No matter what way or from what angle you look at the revalations of MPs expenses..........fundamentally they have robbed Mr and Mrs Joe Public and therefore should be held accountable and judged through the courts.

They deliberately used the system they put in place for self gain and it has been done in the most underhand and deceitful manner.... hiding behind the pretence that they do the best job they can for the people of Britain....Whi are they kidding, they are just a bunch of swindlers!!!!

wavy davy
14-May-09, 22:08
I'll be taking Tebbit's advice;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8045250.stm

Bazeye
14-May-09, 22:48
Getting away from Steven Fry and back to the greedy snouts.....

Now we have another labour MP in the news - former Minister Elliot Morley - who has claimed £800 a month for 18 months against a mortgage which did not exist!

Not only that, he rented it out to another mp, whos rent was paid for by us, the taxpayers. [disgust]

Rheghead
14-May-09, 23:06
Shahid Malik MP for Dewsbury claimed for £65 for being fined over non-payment of Council Tax. That is pretty reprehensible.

greenasiamcabbagelooking
15-May-09, 00:38
after watching tonights question time and delighting/raging at Margaret Becketts floundering waffle it became clear that there is a real possibility that the 'fringe' partys could get a foothold.

for this reason, i would like to suggest that we create a Caithness chapter of the Monster Raving Loony Party http://www.omrlp.com/

the difficulty i have with this ..... who would be our constituency leader ? ...... there's just too many candidates ....

(Percy you could claim substantial relocation expenses, we would even dig you a moat .... please say yes)

Green_not_greed
15-May-09, 08:14
Shahid Malik MP for Dewsbury claimed for £65 for being fined over non-payment of Council Tax. That is pretty reprehensible.

I completely agree.

Green_not_greed
15-May-09, 08:16
after watching tonights question time and delighting/raging at Margaret Becketts floundering waffle it became clear that there is a real possibility that the 'fringe' partys could get a foothold.

for this reason, i would like to suggest that we create a Caithness chapter of the Monster Raving Loony Party http://www.omrlp.com/

the difficulty i have with this ..... who would be our constituency leader ? ...... there's just too many candidates ....

(Percy you could claim substantial relocation expenses, we would even dig you a moat .... please say yes)

What a great idea!

How about Graeme Smith? He would appear to have experience in all the required departments.

percy toboggan
15-May-09, 09:01
Shahid Malik MP for Dewsbury claimed for £65 for being fined over non-payment of Council Tax. That is pretty reprehensible.

Along with the rest of the corrupt ones he should be rooted out and prosecuted. The Daily Mail is apparently funding private prosecutions.
Did you see Margaret Beckett on Question Time last night? She had the haughty air of one who is feeling put upon because she's been rumbled.
The honest members who have been playing fair on expenses should get just as much publicity as we need these people going forward. Their advancement is equally as important as the outing, and ruination of the careers of the bent ones.

Why is Julie Kirkbride escaping censure? Two homes with her smarmy M.P. husband yet neither of them was a 'main' residence. Allowing them to claim two lots of second home allowance.

That such a devious practice is immoral will not escape a majority of us lesser mortals yet seems to have completely passed by this Conservative couple who both deserve to be drummed out on their well upholstered backsides.

Never have I seen or heard the public so galvanised and so angry. This may be a defining time in British politics and the ramifications could rumble right up to the next General Election (which should be brought forward) it is a time like no other for the opportunists within minor parties to grab the spotlight - we shall soon see how clever (or otherwise) they are.

Bazeye
15-May-09, 15:07
Shahid Malik MP for Dewsbury claimed for £65 for being fined over non-payment of Council Tax. That is pretty reprehensible.

Didnt Lembit Opik? do the same thing?

Bazeye
15-May-09, 15:08
Didnt Lembit Opik? do the same thing?

Cheeky boy.

Oddquine
15-May-09, 22:03
For MPs to be effective, they may well have to have a place to live in their constituency and another in London.......but do they really have to own the temporary abode in London?

Doesn't anybody else think it is illogical that people on renewable fixed term contracts with voters buy properties in the most expensive place in Britain, and then furnish them with top of the range furniture when they could simply and sensibly rent and there would be no problems with claiming that rent etc as it would be a clear and obvious cost?

Doesn't it strike you as being more than a little immoral to use the fact of being an MP not only to garner generous severance pay and pensions, but also to become a property developer without having to put your hand in your own pocket?

How can our Members of Parliament take the moral high ground with those countries with corrupt governments we subsidise with aid when our own lot have illustrated so embarrassingly over the years that they are more than happy to allow us to subsidise their unnecessarily extravagant lifestyles.

If Hilary Benn, Alan Johnston etc can do their jobs without taking advantage of the system, why on earth can't they all?

percy toboggan
16-May-09, 09:26
Now the old pseudo-socialist grandee Tam Dalyell has forked out thousands of pounds of our money for 'bookcases' .

This is a clear case of arrogance and the corruption of moral values which often accompanies long spells in office.

The man should be drummed out of office in disgrace. He shows a singular lack of remorse. IKEA items could have done the same job for less than a hundred quid.

bekisman
16-May-09, 22:15
Details of MP's expenses, quite readable!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8043530.stm

Alice in Blunderland
16-May-09, 22:25
I have to say I am quite pleased with Lord Thurso so far.:)

As for some of the others .......... if any of us had done this there would be criminal prosecutions pending and not being pushed for by a newspaper. :mad:

catran
16-May-09, 23:00
I have to say I am quite pleased with Lord Thurso so far.:)

As for some of the others .......... if any of us had done this there would be criminal prosecutions pending and not being pushed for by a newspaper. :mad:
Yes Alice, thinks I quite like Lord Thurso but we will see if he is whiter than white truth will bleed.

Rheghead
19-May-09, 00:32
Who honestly goes through £400 per month for food?:confused

Aaldtimer
19-May-09, 03:18
Who honestly goes through £400 per month for food?:confused

Fat Eck apparently...even when he's no required to be in London![disgust]

hotrod4
19-May-09, 06:03
The thing that gets me about all this is............. When I was unemployed and needed to claim Benefit and Housing Benefit, I had to show details of any saving that I had before I could get anything.If i was above that level I had to pay a contribution towards my benefit. Sounds quite reasonable?
If it was fair.yes BUT an MP on big money can claim for DVD players,chandeliers etc at the taxpayers expense and they deem that NECESSARY wheras the people that put them in power get penalised from benfits if they have a couple of quid saved from years of work.

Why arent expenses means tested in the same way that joe public is if he/she requires benefits?
If not then is it little wonder so many people "hide" money so that they can claim benefits(that they are entitled to)? After all if its good enough for the leaders of the country why not them?[evil]

percy toboggan
19-May-09, 07:32
Reasonable expenses claimed for costs incurred necessarily because of the job are acceptable.

If someone has to set up a secong home because their constitutency is more tha a reasonable commute from Westminster then they should receive state assistance for items we all consider as essential ie. NOT chandeliers, or 'mock tudor' beams.

I think it quite reasonable for an M.P. to claim up to thirty quid for a dvd player (not a recorder) for a second home. Items costing over one hundred pounds should remain the property of HM Government and receipts should be required for everything from an approved list of suppliers.

Mortage interest should be capped and any profit from subsequent house sales should be repaid to the exchequer(minus reasonable expenses). The key here is transparency. The system has been opaque for far too long.

There are many decent, hard working Members of Parliament who do not attempt to fiddle the system and put in an honest shift - a darn sight longer than forty hours !

As I said somewhere before...we must not throw ot the baby with the stinking, rancid and putrid bathwater here.

£64,000 - when one considers top rate income tax and National Insurance will account for almsot half of it IS NOT a big salary. I think it borders only on 'reasonable' and in this age of financial hardship for many 'reasonable' will have to do. Simply because mis-management of NHS contracts has seen G.P's lavishly overpaid....and the cash thrown at education sees Headmasters on mammoth pay-packets I'm afraid M.P's will just have to lump it for a while.

When they prove they can ALL be trusted to toe the line honestly AND when transparent systems are established as working well THEN might we consider paying them a little more - perhaps by results ! Now there's a radical idea...

Root out the dross, the dead-wood and the leeches....shine light where darkness has prevailed...get the worms ou tof the woodwork and the public pain of the last few weeks will not have been in vain. Start with Michael Martin - the Speaker is an utter disgrace and he IS overpaid!! (£100k +)

Rheghead
02-Jun-09, 15:05
A recent opinion poll (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2009-05-27-green-politicians-most-trusted-to-put-britain-before-self.html)put the Green Party as the least likely to put self-interest before country.

Kodiak
02-Jun-09, 15:46
I have to say I am quite pleased with Lord Thurso so far.:)

As for some of the others .......... if any of us had done this there would be criminal prosecutions pending and not being pushed for by a newspaper. :mad:

Remember he is No longer Lord Thurso, he is just Plain Mr John Thurso. He gave up his Peerage so that he could stand as an MP. Here is the Published list of his expences up to 2008, you will see that John Thurso does not Claim for a 2nd House in London although he would have been entitled to living as he does up here in Caithness :-

http://i44.tinypic.com/16bn0q9.jpg


If you want to see the same for all MP's then click on the link below. Just find the MP you are interested in and click on their name, then click on Expences.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mps/

riggerboy
02-Jun-09, 15:49
vote for the BNP and get it under control NOW,

let the new times roll

The Pepsi Challenge
02-Jun-09, 16:36
.......... funny.

Rheghead
03-Jun-09, 01:16
Remember he is No longer Lord Thurso, he is just Plain Mr John Thurso. He gave up his Peerage so that he could stand as an MP.

I don't believe that is correct, his homepage is saying that he is the first hereditary peer to enter the house of commons after having sat in the House of Lords. There is no mention of him giving the title away. I think the Peerage act of 1999 allowed peers to sit in the Commons without having to relinquish them which is what Tony Benn wanted and was able to do after campaigning in 1963 after he inherited his title.