View Full Version : ID Cards and their true meaning.
They are to pay for Blair's London mansion.
He will not leave office until the deal with the rubbish IT company is in the bag and the brown envelopes have reached him.
And I thought I was cynical. :D
Besides, he can't go yet, he has to await permission from a higher being.
And she's not given him permission so far!
Has anybody noticed how deathly quiet she is?
I'll stick my neck out and prophesise that she is soon to become a judge.
Her conniving husband has the right people in the right places for the appointment.
I forecast it will happen before Blair steps down.
We shall see.
landmarker
04-Mar-06, 00:38
The Blairs. High living lowlife pigs with their snouts in the trough.
How I celebrated in May '97. I was delighted. That was my last bout of political indulgence. Now for me , none of them have any creedence whatsoever. In '97 I was 46 years old, long in the tooth enough to be cynical but I just rejoiced in Blair's victory. How wrong I was. A mug indeed. There were millions like me.
Nothing has really changed, except the extended snouts & egos of Blair's cohorts (Mandelson/Jowell/Robinson/Blunkett) have become even longer. New Labour stopped the gravy train long enough to jump aboard at concessionary rates. Oh! and lets not forget that over the altar of economic success the odious Blair has welcomed all and sundry from the four corners of the world to be exploited by the movers and shakers he calls his friends. When the wheels come off the economic bus the shake down will reverberate far and beyond these shores. By then the Fettes old spot and his Merseyside grunter sow will be well away. He retired. she living in the ivory towered closet of the High Court Judge laying the law down to those of us who indulged this pair of toerags in their unquenchable thirst for power and success.
2little2late
04-Mar-06, 00:43
The Blairs. High living lowlife pigs with their snouts in the trough.
How I celebrated in May '97. I was delighted. That was my last bout of political indulgence. Now for me , none of them have any creedence whatsoever. In '97 I was 46 years old, long in the tooth enough to be cynical but I just rejoiced in Blair's victory. How wrong I was. A mug indeed. There were millions like me.
Nothing has really changed, except the extended snouts & egos of Blair's cohorts (Mandelson/Jowell/Robinson/Blunkett) have become even longer. New Labour stopped the gravy train long enough to jump aboard at concessionary rates. Oh! and lets not forget that over the altar of economic success the odious Blair has welcomed all and sundry from the four corners of the world to be exploited by the movers and shakers he calls his friends. When the wheels come off the economic bus the shake down will reverberate far and beyond these shores. By then the Fettes old spot and his Merseyside grunter sow will be well away. He retired. she living in the ivory towered closet of the High Court Judge laying the law down to those of us who indulged this pair of toerags in their unquenchable thirst for power and success.
I was the same when Blair was elected into office. He is such a smug so and so I really can't stand the man now. I have always been Labour, but they are definately changing my mind for me.
The Blairs. High living lowlife pigs with their snouts in the trough.
How I celebrated in May '97. I was delighted. That was my last bout of political indulgence. Now for me , none of them have any creedence whatsoever. In '97 I was 46 years old, long in the tooth enough to be cynical but I just rejoiced in Blair's victory. How wrong I was. A mug indeed. There were millions like me.
Nothing has really changed, except the extended snouts & egos of Blair's cohorts (Mandelson/Jowell/Robinson/Blunkett) have become even longer. New Labour stopped the gravy train long enough to jump aboard at concessionary rates. Oh! and lets not forget that over the altar of economic success the odious Blair has welcomed all and sundry from the four corners of the world to be exploited by the movers and shakers he calls his friends. When the wheels come off the economic bus the shake down will reverberate far and beyond these shores. By then the Fettes old spot and his Merseyside grunter sow will be well away. He retired. she living in the ivory towered closet of the High Court Judge laying the law down to those of us who indulged this pair of toerags in their unquenchable thirst for power and success.
I too rejoiced in 1997.I was 57 and should have known better,but he had such a nice smile.Do you remember the tories putting a mask on him and likening him to the devil?I should have listened,but would they have been any better?Are there any politicians these days who want to do what's best for the country and the people?I fear not.
landmarker
04-Mar-06, 01:19
I must admit to voting BNP at the last two elections that mattered. This alone will probaly result in me being struck orf! Though they are a legitmate political party.
I voted for them as a protest, to awake mainstream parties to my concerns, along with approxmately 999,999 others in 2005. Are we all racist scumbags? Probably, according to some bleached-bland liberals.
Before you condemn please re-read my motives. Where else do concerned Britons go these days.Ukip? They did not stand in my constituency.
Wheest folks look beyond the smile for the inner idiot..I have no idea how history will deal with Mr Blair but in my records he's the biggest egotistical.smarmy , devious , self centered , autocratic, self appointed president that we have never had!
goldenguernsey
04-Mar-06, 02:45
Living in Mid Clyth since August 05 I can say that where I came from we were on the doorstep of Tony Blairs ward in County Durham and when he first came to power everyone hoped for a breath of fresh air, a new broom and all that, however, the FMD crisis of 2001 saw his halo crumble.
Folk were totally disillusioned at the extent of the "illegal cull"
It was honestly, totally illegal to slaughter over 11 million, Yes 11 Million animals like they did.
Legislation was introduced to make it legal after the event in case of future emergencies. However, people lost confidence fast in New Labour during 2001. The worst affected County was Devon, followed by Cumbria as we all saw in the media BUT.... the next worst affected county was DURHAM where Sedgefield, Blairs constituancy sat.
Durham borders Cumbria and all the contiguous slaughter without proof of infection was totally illegal!
At that time it was illegal to slaughter healthy stock but it happened anyway. Now it is NOT illegal as legislation makes a proviso to cull anything including the farm dog if deemed fit.
I hail from County Durham and I know how people feel about B liar, he's not exactly flavour of the month and folk have lost confidence in a big way.
connieb19
04-Mar-06, 02:48
http://www.angelfire.com/80s/ateam2000/Tony1.jpg
Tony Blair was visiting a school and was asked by a teacher if he would like to lead the discussion on what constituted a “ tragedy”.
So the illustrious leader asked the class for an example of a "tragedy." One little boy stood up and offered, "If my best friend, who lives on a farm, is playing in the field and a tractor runs him over and kills him, that would be a tragedy."
"No," said Blair, "that would be an accident." A little girl raised her hand: "If a school bus carrying 50 children drove over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a tragedy."
"I'm afraid not." explained the PM. "That's what we would call a great loss."
The room went silent. No other children volunteered. Blair searched the room.
"Isn't there someone here who can give me an example of tragedy?" Finally, at the back of the room a small boy raised his hand. In a quiet voice he said:
"If an aircraft carrying you, Mr. Blair, was struck by a "friendly fire" missile and blown to smithereens, that would be a tragedy."
"Fantastic!" exclaimed Blair. "That's right. And can you tell me why that would be a tragedy?"
"Well," says the boy, "it has to be a tragedy, because it certainly wouldn't be a great loss and it probably wouldn't be an accident."
weeboyagee
04-Mar-06, 15:11
I voted for them as a protest, to awake mainstream parties to my concerns,......
...and of course they all took notice and changed their ways???
...along with approxmately 999,999 others in 2005. Are we all racist scumbags? Probably, according to some bleached-bland liberals.
Have kept quite quiet about your postings in the main landmarker, but given how close you seem to run to the nerve with your posting content, the general reader on caithness.org would deem you to be either racist or have racist tendencies. That's with or without knowing your motives.
Quite frankly, anyone voting for the BNP has the right to do so but should remember what the bulk of the population believe they stand for. Most people find the greater picture painted by the actions undertaken by the BNP to be publicly unacceptable and to have no place in today's modern society - with elements of anarchy, neo-nazi and pro-racist tendencies. So far I believe you have probably riled the English, the ethnic minorities and everyone else who isn't a conformist to your ways of thinking since you joined the org, but hey, it's a free country with free speech,.....you are entitled to your say ........................and frequently benefit us with your mutterings,....sorry,....I meant utterings.
My opinion and for what it's worth the opinion of many others on the org and in the local community - but I am sure you are probably aware of this. My thoughts anyway - you are free to choose to accept them or not but hopefully you can respect them in as much as I respect yours.
WBG :cool:
connieb19
04-Mar-06, 15:20
http://www.angelfire.com/80s/ateam2000/Tony1.jpg I posted this last night but its dissappeared!![para]
connieb19
04-Mar-06, 15:24
Oh...he's back...SPOOKY!!!:confused: [para]
I must admit to voting BNP at the last two elections that mattered. This alone will probaly result in me being struck orf! Though they are a legitmate political party.
Before you condemn please re-read my motives. Where else do concerned Britons go these days.Ukip? They did not stand in my constituency.
Got to give you credit for admitting that you support a fringe lunatic party, did they get in by the way? If not you need not have bothered voting.
I would not give the BNP a second look to me they are just as bad as the Communists, SSP, and sadly the SNP.
I used to read your posts Landmarker, and think, "hey he is sailling close to the wind", now I realise why. Sorry you have shot yourself in the foot as far as I am concerned. As of now I will view your posts with a jaundiced view
Everyone has their own agenda Golach - even you;)
Blair has done a lot.
He has brought semi autonomy to Scotland and Wales.
He has clipped back the hereditary peers in the House of Lords.
He has facilitated the ban on Fox hunting
He has pushed through the ban on hand guns
He brought back full union representation
Apart from the Iraq war, he would still get my vote.
Disquiet as remains hinges upon the political interference in the Hamza case. It was indicative of the Government's obsessive fear of the ramifications of this case that Downing Street chose, unusually, to comment on the rightness of the verdict. It did not, sadly, comment on whether at an earlier stage political pressure was applied to hold off from such a prosecution.
He should have been brought before the courts in 1999, when his message of murderous hate became unequivocally clear. It may be no coincidence that the Government voiced its approval of the verdict at a time when support for the extremists of the British National Party appears to be rising. The only political motivation behind this trial, it appears, was to be found in the reluctance to bring it about.
No free lunches with a coniving load of morons like our government.
Blair has done a lot.
He has brought semi autonomy to Scotland and Wales.
Maybe good, maybe not - too soon to tell
He has clipped back the hereditary peers in the House of Lords.
Only to fill it with his own nominations yet still they oppose him
He has facilitated the ban on Fox hunting
Wasted hours/days of Parliamentary time and it still goes on regardless.
He has pushed through the ban on hand guns
More gun violence than ever so don't think that was a great success
He brought back full union representation
Do we really want to go back to union domination? Don't think they're keen on him either.
Apart from the Iraq war, he would still get my vote.
Or were you being sarcastic and I've missed the point entirely?
Maybe good, maybe not - too soon to tell
Good if you are a teacher, like my missus
Only to fill it with his own nominations yet still they oppose him
Just goes to show how impartial he is at his nominations, he wouldn't want any accusation of cronyism to be substantiated.
Wasted hours/days of Parliamentary time and it still goes on regardless.
It takes two to debate at length, if the tories agreed then there would be no wasted hours of parliamentary time.
More gun violence than ever so don't think that was a great success
And how bad would it be if those guns were still in circulation?
Do we really want to go back to union domination? Don't think they're keen on him either.
Nobody mentioned union domination, only representation.
Or were you being sarcastic and I've missed the point entirely?
No, I wasn't being sarcastic, I was being rational with my political beliefs. If I voted for another party on the basis of 'one issue' like landmarker and jjc did, then it would lead to more representation for more radical parties like the BNP.
landmarker
04-Mar-06, 22:28
...and of course they all took notice and changed their ways???
Have kept quite quiet about your postings in the main landmarker, but given how close you seem to run to the nerve with your posting content, the general reader on caithness.org would deem you to be either racist or have racist tendencies. That's with or without knowing your motives.
Quite frankly, anyone voting for the BNP has the right to do so but should remember what the bulk of the population believe they stand for. Most people find the greater picture painted by the actions undertaken by the BNP to be publicly unacceptable and to have no place in today's modern society - with elements of anarchy, neo-nazi and pro-racist tendencies. So far I believe you have probably riled the English, the ethnic minorities and everyone else who isn't a conformist to your ways of thinking since you joined the org, but hey, it's a free country with free speech,.....you are entitled to your say ........................and frequently benefit us with your mutterings,....sorry,....I meant utterings.
My opinion and for what it's worth the opinion of many others on the org and in the local community - but I am sure you are probably aware of this. My thoughts anyway - you are free to choose to accept them or not but hopefully you can respect them in as much as I respect yours.
WBG :cool:
Er, most certainly I respect your thoughts, at least those you choose to exhibit on the board. I can't vouchsafe the entire contents of your head, nor you mine.
I can overlook the slightly perjorative 'muttering' jibe, though it let down what had been constructive criticism.
For the record Blair did respond to the growth of the BNP vote by introducing some relatively stringent measures to reduce the flow of illegal immigrants and so called asylum seekers. The Tories share of the vote also increased, coincidental I'm sure to their stronger stance on immigration.
I am not a 'supporter' of the BNP in as much as I would never wish them to form a government. They are far from being a single issue party though, and have some radical taxation policies which are at least worth a look.
Sadly, the standard of their candidates is not up to much. They claim to eschew Nazism and if you think I would have any truck with that then I have somehow failed to express myself clearly, or you are not the brightest button in the box.
I'd wager though that a fundamentalist Islamic party will return an M.P. to Westminster before the British National Party do. After all in a recent poll. (I.C.M. I think) 42% of Muslims in heavily populated areas wanted to see Sharia law over-ride British law in the courts. What labels would you ascribe to them?
Trevor Phillips, head of the Commision for Racial Equality, and as such the prime mover in the race relations industry admits 'multi-culturalism is failing'
Would you castigate him as a 'racist'? He publicly advised the champions of Sharia law to 'go and live elsewhere'
My motives are selfish. I fear for my country in several ways. Firstly, the way the opponents of people like me wish to remove any semblance of debate from the agenda by the use of the 'r' word. I daresay if I lived up in your neck of the woods, next to the 'best pub in the world' - I take it their are no crack dealers operating from there, that gun crime extends merely to the odd farmer forgetting to renew his firearms certificate - then my entire attitude would be far more relaxed.
Finally, and for the record, I am in fact, historically a natural labour voter, a former militant trade
unionist, and an anti monarchist republican. All the great issues these terms represent are of little consequence when the pace of demographic change in the cities and towns of England is as rapid as it has been over the last seven years. The pace of change is the major problem here.
Feel free to give my posts scant regard, I feel there is an element of public posturing in your censure of me. You wish to be seen doing the 'right thing' perhaps in tackling my views? You seem to adopt the rtole of spokesperson for the 'local community'
My motives in public spleen venting go no further than getting my thoughts out for my own benefit, no-one elses. If people agree then fine, if they dis-agree, what can I do?
I do not think I'm whistling in the wind here and believe it or not quite a number of people agree with me. If I were to be tongue lashed on a regular basis I'd probably move on, but the reverse it true.
The ICM opinion poll also indicated that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity. And a huge majority of them would do it too if ordered to.
50pc said interracial relations were worsening. Do we really need these idiots to tell us? Overall, the findings depict a Muslim community becoming more radical and feeling more alienated from mainstream society, even though 91 per cent still say they feel loyal to Britain. Of course, the benefits are something to be desired.
"Bid to stop incomers snapping up homes"
"Many locals cannot afford homes and there has been pointed criticism about those in the south who can sell a modest home and move to the Highlands with a massive budget far beyond the reach of locals. A Highland Council report warned that incomers were threatening the viability of schools and the survival of communities in the sensitive rural area."
Press and Journal, Monday November 21, 2005.
And this from a Country which insists it needs more people to come to it in order to thrive.
But not me if I had wished to move to the Cairngorms instead of Caithness.
Could I perhaps be misinterpreting just exactly what the above is meant to imply?
Just try changing the description "those in the south" and the location and see how it reads then.
Of course, we don't agree with that sort of thing where I come from. We call that Discrimination and have laws against it.
weeboyagee
05-Mar-06, 00:35
I can overlook the slightly perjorative 'muttering' jibe, though it let down what had been constructive criticism.
OK, OK,....it was earlier in the day and I slip every now and then with the silver tipped fingers typing on the keyboard. I wasn't meaning to be-little your posts, more show that you do run real close to the nerve more often than not.
I am not a 'supporter' of the BNP in as much as I would never wish them to form a government.
Don't see the sense in voting for a party that I would never wish to form a government.
or you are not the brightest button in the box.....
I know, I know,......sometimes I can't see the wood for the trees but on this one I haven't said that you personally are a person that makes me think you would have truck with that, I did say that the BNP would though!
I'd wager though that a fundamentalist Islamic party will return an M.P. to Westminster before the British National Party do. After all in a recent poll. (I.C.M. I think) 42% of Muslims in heavily populated areas wanted to see Sharia law over-ride British law in the courts. What labels would you ascribe to them?
The exact label they would deserve according to the extremity of their cause, nothing to do with creed or colour,....the label would be according to where their actions would determine their position in the political pendulum. Fundamentalist in any way and they will receive the label worthy of it.
Trevor Phillips, head of the Commision for Racial Equality, and as such the prime mover in the race relations industry admits 'multi-culturalism is failing' Would you castigate him as a 'racist'? He publicly advised the champions of Sharia law to 'go and live elsewhere'
If we believe their actions would threaten society there are laws that they have to live by that could well see them live somewhere else and not by their own choice.
My motives are selfish. I fear for my country in several ways. Firstly, the way the opponents of people like me wish to remove any semblance of debate from the agenda by the use of the 'r' word. I daresay if I lived up in your neck of the woods, next to the 'best pub in the world' - I take it their are no crack dealers operating from there, that gun crime extends merely to the odd farmer forgetting to renew his firearms certificate - then my entire attitude would be far more relaxed.
I already said I have respect for what you say but I would dare to say that although I am not (as you put it) spokesperson for the community, you debate on a web-site fundamentally promoting this community. Whereas I may be in the neck of the woods, next to the "best pub in the world" (just heading there in a minute :)) I would respect the fact that whereas you would be a little more relaxed in attitude if you were here you would therefore expect the attitude up here to some of your posts to be a little alarmist? No?
All the great issues these terms represent are of little consequence when the pace of demographic change in the cities and towns of England is as rapid as it has been over the last seven years. The pace of change is the major problem here.
Now this is one point I can have some consideration with. I was talking to someone today where I said that in Scotland in general you can still identify with what a "Scotsman" is but can we really identify with what an "Englishman" really is. So believe you me I can understand some of your sentiments, I just find that your delivery borders on the offensive at times - maybe just me.......
If people agree then fine, if they dis-agree, what can I do?
Nothing, we just say our piece and move on in the thread.....
I do not think I'm whistling in the wind here and believe it or not quite a number of people agree with me. If I were to be tongue lashed on a regular basis I'd probably move on, but the reverse is true.
I don't believe you are whistling in the wind either, and I do believe there are one or two that agree with you, but you have my opinion and for what it is worth it is only in terms of this thread and others similar - I can have a laugh in common with you when the time comes - as I am sure it will......
I have no intention on tongue lashing - it's not my nature,....... said my piece and that's it - I get it too every now and then.....
Off to chill over a nice pint,......have one on me in your local tonight......
WBG :cool:
Of course, we don't agree with that sort of thing where I come from. We call that Discrimination and have laws against it.
Its been happening in Caithness for years. Incomers sell their modest homes in the south for double or treble what a similar house costs in Caithness. Then, once they have settled into their new home, they put themselves onto the local labour market to supplement their wee nest egg from the sale of their modest wee hoose in the south.
Its been happening for years mr Jaws and as a born and bred local man I am delighted that people would want to spend their lives in the county of my birth. I welcome them with open arms and will do everything in my power to make them feel welcome in their new home.
As your support for the BNP voting man of the golden word has already shown, you have a different angle on incomers, or if you prefer immigrants.
For that reason please dont come running, peepan and bubblan lek a beeg bairn onto the forums of caithness.org when the same discrimination you dish out on others is returned to yourself.
Its been happening in Caithness for years. Incomers sell their modest homes in the south for double or treble what a similar house costs in Caithness. Then, once they have settled into their new home, they put themselves onto the local labour market to supplement their wee nest egg from the sale of their modest wee hoose in the south.
Its been happening for years mr Jaws and as a born and bred local man I am delighted that people would want to spend their lives in the county of my birth. I welcome them with open arms and will do everything in my power to make them feel welcome in their new home.
As your support for the BNP voting man of the golden word has already shown, you have a different angle on incomers, or if you prefer immigrants.
For that reason please dont come running, peepan and bubblan lek a beeg bairn onto the forums of caithness.org when the same discrimination you dish out on others is returned to yourself.
I've never been made to feel anything other than welcome in Caithness and find Caithnessians probably the most pleasant people I have encountered.
Neither have I heard anybody either here or elsewhere ever complain somebody wanted to pay them too much for their house.
I'm puzzled how I am supporting the "BNP voting man", all I have done was comment on an article in a local paper about suggestions made in the Highland Council.
The fact that changing "those in the south" to the name of any race and by substituting a Nation for Cairngorms would create an outcry.
If you see that as coming, "running, peepan and bubblan lek a beeg bairn onto the forums of caithness.org when the same discrimination you dish out on others is returned to yourself." then you must see that I would not be agreeing with discrimination but arguing that it was wrong.
It would take more than an article like the one I mentioned to cause me any distress, I’m afraid I find it rather more amusing than distressing. As for the “discrimination you (I) dish out on others”, I must have slept through that one, can somebody refresh my memory.
I see no difference between landmarker saying "not wanted here" and some members of the Highland Council saying "not wanted here".
To decry one and accept the other is hardly consistent, neither is saying there is a need for people to come to Scotland, but not "those in the south", is similarly hardly consistent.
I am also aware that people of a certain long standing Scottish surname are often referred to as, "Tinks" I believe the term is, and complain from time to time of a certain amount of discrimination in the Highlands.
Discrimination is discrimination, no matter what form it takes yet people are happy to decry some forms and not others.
If discrimination is wrong then discrimination should be wrong without exception and should be equally condemned.
I really would like to know where I have indicated that I have some dislike of immigrants, if somebody can point out to me where that was I will gladly go back and check what I said.
I see no difference between landmarker saying "not wanted here" and some members of the Highland Council saying "not wanted here".
To decry one and accept the other is hardly consistent, neither is saying there is a need for people to come to Scotland, but not "those in the south", is similarly hardly consistent.
There is no difference between the discrimination dished out by BNP voters and the discrimination you talk about amongst the Highland Councilors.
The difference is in how I handle it as an individual!
Do I jump on the bandwagon of a bunch of discriminators and release my own inner fears onto the bogey man, whether he is brown faced or from the sooth, or do I challenge that nasty little bit of human vulnerability, lurking below the surface in every human being?
I keep returning to the Nazi analogy and I am aware how much your BNP voting buddy dislikes it, but thats the bit of the human personality that the extremist preys on.
Landmarker says he has support on caithness.org and I am not blind to that fact. However I wonder how many of those supporters could use words in such a way that turns prejudice into an art form. Thats what the nazis did and anyone who cares to associate themselves with anything resembling that destructive creativity in the human personality will also find challenge on Caithness.org.
If you run with the crows you will get shot with the crows.
Its good to see golach has woken up from a long sleep and well said done WB.
Jaws
I would like to point out to you that the word you use to describe certain families in Caithness can be very insulting to those of that surname. Ive seen it used before on Caithness.org and it shows a certain ignorance of someone elses feelings to use it on an internet message board, paricularly a community orientated one.
How could jaws type about the discrimination meted out to certain families in caithness without using the offending word, is it taboo to discuss these things? I also think some of what landmarker had to say about immigrants was a very valid, you can't have certain cultures importing their own laws into this country.
http://www.ntpi.org/html/whyoppose.html
Three Cheers for Australia!
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head
off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim
leaders pledged loyalty to Australia at a special meeting with Prime
Minister John Howard, he and his ministers made it clear that extremists
would face a crackdown.
Discrimination is discrimination, no matter what form it takes yet people are happy to decry some forms and not others.
If discrimination is wrong then discrimination should be wrong without exception and should be equally condemned.
Began to think I really was in a parallel universe when I saw Gleeber's response to you as I had a completely different interpretation of your post. Completely agree with your above comment. I am one of many incomers who moved up here for various reasons but we all make our contribution to society here in different ways, as do immigrants all over the country. Violence and crime are as prevalent amongst natives (whatever they are - we were nearly all immigrants once) and recent immigrants. Discrimination is one of the major causes of unrest leading to violence from both sides.
There is no difference between the discrimination dished out by BNP voters and the discrimination you talk about amongst the Highland Councilors.
The difference is in how I handle it as an individual!
Do I jump on the bandwagon of a bunch of discriminators and release my own inner fears onto the bogey man, whether he is brown faced or from the sooth, or do I challenge that nasty little bit of human vulnerability, lurking below the surface in every human being?
I keep returning to the Nazi analogy and I am aware how much your BNP voting buddy dislikes it, but thats the bit of the human personality that the extremist preys on.
Landmarker says he has support on caithness.org and I am not blind to that fact. However I wonder how many of those supporters could use words in such a way that turns prejudice into an art form. Thats what the nazis did and anyone who cares to associate themselves with anything resembling that destructive creativity in the human personality will also find challenge on Caithness.org.
If you run with the crows you will get shot with the crows.
Its good to see golach has woken up from a long sleep and well said done WB.
Jaws
I would like to point out to you that the word you use to describe certain families in Caithness can be very insulting to those of that surname. Ive seen it used before on Caithness.org and it shows a certain ignorance of someone elses feelings to use it on an internet message board, particularly a community orientated one.
On the last point, gleeber, it is not the first time the particular word has been mentioned here, there was a whole thread on the subject, admittedly a good while ago, but it was well aired.
What you say about the use of the particular description is one I would agree with. That is why I was not more specific about what the name was. Those, as you are, already aware of such discrimination have learned nothing they do not already know and those who are not aware have learned nothing new.
But that does not negate the fact that it is nothing more than pure prejudice and in that is no different to landmarker’s attitude.
I am certainly not ignorant that the term can be offensive when used as abuse but I’m sure people are intelligent enough to know when abuse is meant and when such abuse is being objected to.
You, as many people are willing to do, just 'shoot the messenger'. I don't recall ever having said that I am in agreement with landmarker’s impressions of Immigrants.
All I have done is pointed out that discrimination takes many forms. The term "those in the south", from the perspective of the Highlands, could mean those from the Central Belt, the Borders or even Wales, but it doesn't take a great leap of thought to know the term was used to hide the fact that the person making the suggestion meant "English".
That doesn't bother me in the least, but why did he not just say so? Why try and pretend that the suggestion is not based on prejudice.
I would hasten to add that the idea was contemptuously dismissed be the Highland Council as a nonsense and totally unworkable.
Perhaps they were, ”bought and sold for English gold”?
The point I am making is that the person making the suggestion was seeing a situation which, rightly or wrongly, was being created by "immigrants" moving into an area to the detriment of local people.
Is that really so different to what landmarker is saying?
I love the idea that because I point something out means that I am in agreement with it or am complaining or as you succinctly put it, “come running, peepan and bubblan lek a beeg bairn onto the forums of caithness.org when the same discrimination you dish out on others is returned to yourself.”
I ain’t complaining. If I can’t fit in with the local population then that’s my problem, not theirs. If I want to be here it’s up to me to fit in with the locals and not for me to expect them to change their ways just to suit me.
If certain individuals were to take offence at my presence, tough, I can live with that.
I don’t expect everybody to love me I’m not that versatile.
Strange thing is, the General Election before last, I voted for the SNP so heaven only knows what I can be labelled as having done that.
“My God, Carruthers, the mans gone Native I tell you!”
“Poor chap, and he can’t even blame the sun!” Well, not in Caithness I can’t!
Gleeber, please do accept one thing about me, none of the above prejudices I mentioned are aimed at you personally or, for that matter, any other individual on the forum.
Provocative I will, at times, admit to, but I hope I am never totally obnoxious.
weeboyagee
05-Mar-06, 14:23
I was once told by golach that I would be good in the diplomatic corps! So for what it is worth I think I see where both are coming from between gleeber and jaws. I have no time for discrimination in any form. Chance and opportunity that are deemed to favour those in our community leaving the remainder with the opportunity gone by are always going to cheese the remainder off! If taken up by those outwith the local community probably more so. Not a reason for discrimination though.
Here in our community the Highland Councillors (not all of them Bill if you are reading) tend not to send good messages to the masses by their actions or their utterings (got it right first time this time landmarker ;)) Spending £3m on Gaelic signing and saying that it is a good investment is not my idea of discouraging discrimination of the Gaels! Any Gael with an ounce of sense knows that the money would be better invested in Gaelic education - educating kids and teaching them the language at the same time - maybe still doesn't rest easy with a lot, but rests eas-ier than the original proposal!
I think we have to be careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bath water here (as opposed to flying with the crows and being shot with them). My original contribution was the fact that too many statements are made on caithness.org by a few who would seem to run extremely close to the bone with what would seem to be pseudo-racial comments. It makes me uncomfortable and others (gleeber for one) uncomfortable as well. If this gives the impression to some that we are less tolerant of immigrants being in our midst then this is incorrect. In our community I believe we are VERY tolerant - and give them every welcome as Kaitness Fowk have been hailed (in general) to give for centuries.
To decry one and accept the other is hardly consistent, neither is saying there is a need for people to come to Scotland, but not "those in the south", is similarly hardly consistent.
I don't decry one and accept the other (not suggesting that you are saying that I do jaws), but where the whole train of thought of an individual affects their balance in approaching the subject matter, I am afraid I have trouble in accepting what damage (OK a fairly hard term) the level of the language and level of their contribution is doing. I believe that Landmarker's posts are seen to be in this vein quite often depending on the thread.
Sense or maybe nonsense - but my thoughts for what it is worth.
All I have done is pointed out that discrimination takes many forms. The term "those in the south", from the perspective of the Highlands, could mean those from the Central Belt, the Borders or even Wales, but it doesn't take a great leap of thought to know the term was used to hide the fact that the person making the suggestion meant "English".
That doesn't bother me in the least, but why did he not just say so? Why try and pretend that the suggestion is not based on prejudice.
I would hasten to add that the idea was contemptuously dismissed be the Highland Council as a nonsense and totally unworkable.
Perhaps they were, ”bought and sold for English gold”?
I don't think that it's necessarily an anti-English sentiment (though undoubtedly it is for some individuals), but a recognition of rural vs urban issues. The problem doesn't only occur in Caithness, but in Devon, Cornwall, Wales, Cumbria and other areas of the UK.
It is a problem when people can't afford to live in the areas they grew up, because of the affect that people moving into their area have on the local housing market. Recognising that problem isn't necessarily and indicator of prejudice.
A number of councils in Devon and Cornwall opted to reduce the council tax discount for second homes, as the purchase of second homes in these areas was reducing the availability of housing stock for local people who were contributing to the community rather than just breezing in at the weekends.
That wouldn't necessarily work in Caithness, since it's not really a holiday home area, but enforcing the provision of affordable housing and housing for key workers could help to control unsustainable price increases. People who pay over-the-odds for a house in Caithness simply because it's so much cheaper than the house they sold elsewhere may find it's not such a bargain after all when they come to sell their houses and can't recoup what they spent.
Oops, time to behave myself.
Firstly, where is Golach, he's been very quiet of late. I hope he's just hiding and it's nothing more serious.
Drutt, I do understand the problem in the Cairngorms, the same has happened in the Lake District, the Yorkshire Dales and in Devon and Cornwall.
How can most people compete when I have a copy of a news item concerning a 20x9 foot garage being sold in Chelsea for £650,000. (Well, it did have a rainwater downspout!). The starting price was a lowly £300,000.
I suspect that the point you make about the problem being more to do with Urban Prices in the South East of England, and probably soon in the Edinburgh area than it has to do with Nationality. I rather think that the person floating the idea just chose an unfortunate wording rather than anything malicious.
WBG, I agree about the road signs. That's just painting the windows when the walls are falling down. It's very visual but serves no useful purpose.
The money would be far better spent on telling people about Gaelic Culture.
My total knowledge is that they talk a weird language and the women sing funny songs when they are working. (That's sort of half serious :) )
I see the adverts for the wonders of holidays in Wonderful Wales, for Beautiful Ireland and, for heavens sake, Yorkshire? Where is the publicity for similar things in Scotland, never mind the beauties of the Highlands.
I've have no hesitation in repeating what I have said before, Caithness Folks are amongst the most pleasant and friendly set of people I have come across. Yes there is the odd problem caused by a very tiny minority but in most other places they wouldn't even raise and eyebrow.
People in the Highlands are very accepting of people from elsewhere, this I can personally vouch for because I haven't, so far, met with an unfortunate "accident" and if they tolerate me then they will welcome anybody.
As for any anti-English feeling, they are even accepting of the few who I find embarrassing. You will all know the type, when you see them abroad you feel obliged to apologise to the locals.
landmarker
05-Mar-06, 19:43
I already said I have respect for what you say but I would dare to say that although I am not (as you put it) spokesperson for the community, you debate on a web-site fundamentally promoting this community. Whereas I may be in the neck of the woods, next to the "best pub in the world" (just heading there in a minute :)) I would respect the fact that whereas you would be a little more relaxed in attitude if you were here you would therefore expect the attitude up here to some of your posts to be a little alarmist? No?
:
Like most of your post this made sense.
I'm not trying to invoke panic or rage here, though perhaps I'd hope to raise some concern in your 'neck of the woods' in thinking out loud to people who predominantly reside in a part of the world I find interesting and not without appeal. I'm also interested in the pace of life in Caithness and imagine in my wilder moments that some people might appreciate an insight from somewhere which is vastly different.
I also find the clientele of the org. board by and large more intelligent and more active than most, maybe it's the relative isolation, I dont know.
I hope you enjoyed your pint. Thanks for responding in such a considered manner.
I also find the clientele of the org. board by and large more intelligent and more active than most, maybe it's the relative isolation, I dont know.
According to the Dounreay documentary the other night, there were/are more cognescenti per unit area in Caithness than anywhere else in the UK during the glory days of the Dounreay programme. It is in the breeding!:Razz
According to the Dounreay documentary the other night, there were/are more cognescenti per unit area in Caithness than anywhere else in the UK during the glory days of the Dounreay programme. It is in the breeding!:Razz
They must have got that information before I arrived. :p
Discrimination is never acceptable. The BNP is obnoxious and abhorrent with its views - at least to me. They couch their racist views in language which is designed to "cuddle" ordinary people into believing they are actually fair minded and simply concerned. They quote statistics which are designed to support their skewed view of the world with no acknowledgment of any wider issues.
I find the idea that an intelligent and obviously articulate man like yourself landmarker cant see through their bigoted rubbish. Having said that, you are absolutely right to say that it is a legitimate political party and in a democracy you have a right to vote for them. I would not remove that right from you at all, it would simply make me wonder whether you are the sort of person i would want teaching my children, or upholding the law, or sitting at my dinner table - although actually i would probably invite you for a challenge.
I dont like Tony Blair, i find him obsequious. I do however agree with rheghead about the successes of Labour and i would add to that the reduction of unemployment which has been one of the most impressive achievements of the Labour Government. To be honest i cannot understand how anyone who lived through the eighties and the Tory government could bring themselves to vote conservative again. A return to the me me me policies and comments that "There is no such thing as society" is almost as unpleasant a thought as voting for the BNP.
landmarker
07-Mar-06, 18:22
I find the idea that an intelligent and obviously articulate man like yourself landmarker cant see through their bigoted rubbish. Having said that, you are absolutely right to say that it is a legitimate political party and in a democracy you have a right to vote for them. I would not remove that right from you at all, it would simply make me wonder whether you are the sort of person i would want teaching my children, or upholding the law, or sitting at my dinner table - although actually i would probably invite you for a challenge.
.
I look forward to it.
Incidentally I'm neither a teacher nor a copper but I do eat.
A humble horny handed toiler, that's me, doing a real world job for real world money.
Re your main thrust the Chinese have a saying 'sometimes to waken a sleeping dog one has to encourage the fleas to bite'
I'm not for 'cuddling' up to extremists as you imply, the BNP make little impression on me as the holders of so many key posts like council seats in central Lancashire are not the brightest of people. I feel were I right wing enough (and that is not my natural inclination incidentally on most matters) then I could make a bid for some kind of responsible position amongst this lot. Though I'm damning myself with faint praise here. What I'm trying to say is they ain't very good'
However, some of them hold views which are legitimate in my opinion. True, others hold odious opinions and must be regarded as the fleas of which I spoke of earlier. The short necked thuggish looking brutes in black jackets wearing sunglasses on the streets of Keighley in winter serve their purpose no good whatsoever. Although, in a perverse way it is refreshing to see a legitimate political party brave enough to nail their credentials to the mast, instead of posturing behind spin and cosmetic makeovers like the Tories under Cameron.
To my knowledge no BNP rally has ever featured placards as extreme as were seen recently in London, when immigrant moslems protested about those cartoon caricatures. I do not believe the majority of BNP members, much less voters want to see beheadings or mass murder in the streets of any city, anywhere.
The question Squidge is what is the difference between odium and 'legitimate' when it comes to forming ones rationale on accelerating and almost unfettered immigration.
It seems the dog did wake up. I always thought it would in the end.
In today's news for instance you may learn of a new points system for migrants. The unskilled are no longer welcome here it seems. We shall just continue to deprive poorer countries of their brightest brains. We have enough mushroom pickers for the moment. Three hundred and fifty thousand workers have desceneded upon us from the new E.U.accession satates. Many of them work in agriculture. I know of people from Latvia - mothers of young children - who have increased their wages five fold working on the land here. Of course, they never see their children (who are referred to in Latvia as 'the mushroom orphans). However they swell the profits of the large food producers and the landed farmers by working at arficially low wages so the supermarkets (who are making tens of millions) can keep down their prices for fungi and pulses. Meanwhile back home in Latvia, the land is suffering because few are left to work it, now they are recruiting Lithuanian's, the ones who did not come here or go to Ireland anyway.
During the last election campaign Labour did respond to the Tories tougher stance on immigration, in turn the Tories were responding to harder, firmer and more extreme ideas from the likes of the BNP.
I made up the 'Chinese' element in my pre-amble. It's a saying I thought up myself as I read your post.
I like your style Squidge. You are too circumspect to condemn me out of hand & I thank you for your kind words. Even handed too as your symbol might suggest. Reserve giving me the benefit of any doubt until I send a link to something I wrote about six months ago.
weeboyagee
07-Mar-06, 22:20
I hope you enjoyed your pint.
I did - just that my head hurt after it (wonder why??)
I dont like Tony Blair, i find him obsequious.
Squidge! Will you quit using these flippin' big words that I don't know!? But whatever it means I whole heartily agree with you.
I do however agree with rheghead about the successes of Labour
sooky,...sooky,....not another one :eyes Do we really believe that Labour are really an alternative to the Tories? I have really lost faith (ooops, nearly landed in another thread there :lol:) in the politics of this land. Labour and the unification of the masses and the whipping of the masses into a conformed people, the Tories with a totally childish mindset when trying to effectively tackle labour policy and promote their own (OK squidge, so I am a capitalist - with nice bits) and the lib-dems who have a problem agreeing amongst themselves but have a not bad set of policies unless you back your MP from Orkney (oooooohhhhhh!!!) or believe in bigger unification of the masses - Europe and the Euro.
I said it before on another thread - VOTE FOR ME (Hahahahahaha!!!!)
Although, in a perverse way it is refreshing to see a legitimate political party brave enough to nail their credentials to the mast, instead of posturing behind spin and cosmetic makeovers like the Tories under Cameron.
See, I can agree with the latter part of the post landmarker but I have trouble in agreeing with the former, I just can't (like squidge) bring myself to accept that the BNP have anything other than a twisted agenda for the people of this country and it makes me shiver when I think that we even give them a mast to pin their credentials to! Albeit a free country. I abhor the placards of any extermists or extermist organisation that call for beheadings or similar. The extermists exist in all races of people - hence the BNP have their own set that give them a bad name also. Problem is that the more radical your policies the more abhorent the extremists are seen to be!
In today's news for instance you may learn of a new points system for migrants. The unskilled are no longer welcome here it seems. We shall just continue to deprive poorer countries of their brightest brains. We have enough mushroom pickers for the moment. Three hundred and fifty thousand workers have desceneded upon us from the new E.U.accession satates. Many of them work in agriculture. I know of people from Latvia - mothers of young children - who have increased their wages five fold working on the land here. Of course, they never see their children (who are referred to in Latvia as 'the mushroom orphans). However they swell the profits of the large food producers and the landed farmers by working at arficially low wages so the supermarkets (who are making tens of millions) can keep down their prices for fungi and pulses. Meanwhile back home in Latvia, the land is suffering because few are left to work it, now they are recruiting Lithuanian's, the ones who did not come here or go to Ireland anyway.
Now that all makes sense and to my mind you have started to mellow in the way you are putting things across. Please don't think I am patronising but I have been to Lithuania and know a little of what you are talking about, but they too are loosing their skilled workers to this country and leaving their country bereft of the craftsmen they require. Watch though,.....they will be here for a while, get the money and the greater experience and then off they will go back home, to bring their countries smack bang into greater competition with our own. We will soon be the hand bitten by those who we helped feed when here. The only thing is,....it is all down to choice. We would do the same if it were us being faced with the opportunity.
Methinks..............
landmarker
07-Mar-06, 22:52
Now that all makes sense and to my mind you have started to mellow in the way you are putting things across.
I thought about some of your points and the reaction of a 'different' community. Also, Squidge's considered, slightly barbed but fair response provoked an equally considered reply. My 'mellow' tone might have partly been an attempt to convey that despite my elecoral tactics my favourite shirt colour is neither brown, nor black. I do not go in for armbands emblazoned with ancient insignia. Neither is my gait of the goose*. One does not have to be a 'nazi' , a right wing 'nutter' or a myopic 'John Bull' type character to have genuine worries about immigration.
*(with my hips I should be so lucky)
weeboyagee
08-Mar-06, 22:40
Well maybe we are seeing some of your points in a different way too when we see them put over in a different manner - I don't think we are misunderstanding each other in such cases just get to the extreme ends of our tethers before we are pulled in maybe?.........
wickerinca
09-Mar-06, 03:23
I was sitting here reading the posts in this thread with half an eye on American Idol..........I know! Terrible show but Simon Cowal is so brutally attractive! Anyway.....I realised that I am an Immigrant!...or at least my husband is as I am considered to be a sort of glorified visitor. I am not allowed to work or study and, technically, I am not allowed to do any volunteer work although I do. However I would not get clearance to volunteer with any organisations involved with children.....or the elderly if I recall the visa terms correctly.
My husband is, and has been, employed by the same Canadian company for the last 10 years. We pay Canadian Income tax......on time. We have never been in trouble with the police.....apart from 3 parking tickets (all his!!)....which we paid promptly. We have purchased our house at a 'normal' price and have not helped to overinflate property prices although this is of some concern here also especially along the oceanfront communities. We are both fairly healthy but do have private medical insurance............and my husband reckons that the merchants of the city rub their hands with glee when I approach their door!!
We have applied for Landed Immigrant status but it has only been 3 years and on checking with Canadian Immigration it could be another 2 years before we hear if we have been accepted or not. Therefore every year my husband's company has to apply for a work permit and he has to appear before an Employment Tribunal to justify his position as a consultant to a major multinational company.
Perhaps the Mother Country needs to look to the 'colonies' to rethink her Immigration strategies or would EU legislation preclude any single nation rewriting the rules?
Alice in Blunderland
09-Mar-06, 08:42
I also have followed this one very closely.I have first hand experience on the immigration rules in this country and this country does follow quite a strict code for legal immigrants.I know someone who is legaly in this country and works long hours paying large amounts of tax and national insurance into the system, has not so far needed to use the services off the nhs or his doctor due to being a healthy spud.If this person leaves the country whether for work or pleasure he has to fill in paperwork on return to explain where he was what for so on and so on.If tomorrow he lost his job because he is on a work permit he has to either hurriedly re-apply for a different visa or its thankyou very much theres the door be going, he cannot claim any kind of support from the system.(rightly so) although he has paid many thousands into it much more than I have in my whole working life.He cannot freely travel in europe as he has to apply for a visa everywhere and has to give exact details of where he is going how long for and where he is staying and every piece of paperwork needed comes with an official price tag.He is a law abbiding citizen and has never been in trouble and every so many years has to renew his visa for this country so the controls are there just like everything else open to abuse.
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