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percy toboggan
29-Apr-09, 09:51
I read in my newspaper yesterday, via the 'Letters' column that Guy Gibson's Labrador in the remake of 'The Dambusters' is to be named 'Nigsy'

Does this strike you as silly?

I've just watched a full season of 'The Wire' and the 'n' word dominated throughout. I suppose it's all a question of context or don't have others do to us as we do to ourselves. I do not use the 'n' word myself in conversation and see it as somewhat demeaning although I was raised with its use as a signal to shade of brown. Can we deny history?

I think the dog might have been called 'Digger' a perhaps more acceptable and homophonic moniker.Assuming of course this would not inflame our Aussie allies. But 'Nigsy' sounds distinctly 21st. century to me and not at all redolent of a RAF Scampton in the forties.

I only hope the re-make itself is worthy of the action, and the people who carried it out and this minor little detail can be overlooked. I also wonder how many people whose relatives were not living here at the time will give a tinkers cuss about the movie or the name of the dog.

Perhaps future remakes of the remake might leave the dams intact to avoid upsetting Germans.

Kevin Milkins
29-Apr-09, 10:44
It could be worse Percy, they could have named him Sourekraut.

Kodiak
29-Apr-09, 11:54
Or they could have called him "Swartz" that would have gone along with the colour of the Dog.

In reality I suppose if they did not want to use the "N" word in the film then since the Dog was Black the usual name for a Black Dog is "Blackie", that would have been far better I would have thought.

scorrie
29-Apr-09, 12:17
I've just watched a full season of 'The Wire' and the 'n' word dominated throughout.

From what I recall of The Wire, it was almost all black people who were using the "n" word. I can't remember many instances of white people using it.

I agree that Nigsy is a silly compromise but I don't think it was worth risking alienating part of your potential audience by insisting on the original name. It is hardly pivotal to the story and there are many other, more recent reminders of how attitudes have changed on this matter over the years.

I was recently watching series 3 of the original Survivors, made in 1977, and one episode, set at a monastery style commune, featured an Indian woman. Disgruntled by the curry on the menu, Herbert dismissed it as "Wog Food", later dismissed their philosophy as "Wog Ideas", before conceding that the woman was "Quite bright, for a Darkie"

Not much chance of that "surviving" if the modern Survivors survives for further Series'.

Gene Hunt
29-Apr-09, 13:21
Personally I think history is history and should not be altered, after all the word that supposedly causes so much outrage is happily banded about between black youths as a greeting and in a lot of rap music. So if black people complain about it in the film its a bit hypocritical I reckon. But this is all about ticket sales isn't it ??, its all about making money.

My wife is black and I asked her about this just now, she would not be offended. She reckons it is a bit of an insult to the men who died on the raid to change their story. She thinks they should call the dog "Reggin" in the film as that would be its true name backwards and would mean the name is not changed but just spelt differently.

I do remember speaking to RAF Tornado jets in the past that were using the callsign "Blackdog", I would guess they were 617 as RAF squadrons sometimes use callsigns that reflect their emblem and history. So at the least the mutt hasnt been forgotten totally.

MadPict
29-Apr-09, 14:32
It is solely to appease the PC brigade to change the name of the dog. Yes, it was a different era.
Maybe they won't bomb the dams in the film because of all the innocent civilians killed - they won't make any mention of the Germans in case they upset one. Perhaps the enemy will be Orcs and the target will be some structure in Middle Earth*....
I could go on but I'm sure you get the idea...


*Assuming you're referring to the film being made by Peter The Hobbit Jackson...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWZVDiVvKsg

Fly
29-Apr-09, 23:35
Why do they have to change history? Give the dog his correct name. What else has been changed? Remakes are never a patch on the original.

wifie
30-Apr-09, 01:18
I don't think they should re-make the Dambusters!!! [disgust]

Gronnuck
30-Apr-09, 05:36
I don't think they should re-make the Dambusters!!! [disgust]

I agree . . . . . they've decided to change the name of Guy Gibson's dog for PC reasons, but what next! Will they cast Barnes Wallis as an American scientist and fly the mission in B17 flying Fortresses?
Call me a Cynic but I have a sneaking suspicion that this event in British history will be 'americanized' in order to attract a larger audience.

percy toboggan
30-Apr-09, 08:05
...She thinks they should call the dog "Reggin" in the film as that would be its true name backwards and would mean the name is not changed but just spelt differently.

I do remember speaking to RAF Tornado jets in the past that were using the callsign "Blackdog", I would guess they were 617 as RAF squadrons sometimes use callsigns that reflect their emblem and history. So at the least the mutt hasnt been forgotten totally.

Tornado's have come on some then since I used to have dealings with them at Marham, Leuchars and the like in the nineteen eighties. They can hold conversations now - technology marches on.

Maybe the 'blackdog' call sign was a reference to Churchill's term for his severe depression - the military mind works in curious ways...surely the sight of a Tornado...wings swept back going hell for leather would have cheered up the grand old man no end.

As for turning titles on their heads why not call the new film 'Sretsubmad' It would be bound to appeal to the arty crowd with a moniker like that.

or perhaps...SWAJ - peed eht morf selat.

Phill
30-Apr-09, 09:02
Scandalously pinched from elsewhere on the net:

"617 Sqn kept the N word as a formation callsign for sometime afterwards. I think it changed after they tried talking to an American controller with the callsign "Nigger Formation". I believe the controller was an african-american and, quite rightly, took offence and refused to talk to them http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:bbs.scoobynet.com/get/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:bbs.scoobynet.com/get/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Bit of on-the-spot callsign changing and they became "Black Dog Formation"."

History is history, like it or not. If we referred to Auschwitz as Disneyland would it make it all go away, I think not!

It was Latin anyway, or do the Yanks...(can we say Yanks)...not understand Latin?

I was called a "Honky" by an Afro-Carribbean gentleman not so long ago, where's the PC brigade to register my complaint:roll:

northener
30-Apr-09, 09:47
It's a strange world we live in, isn't it?

The dogs name gets blacked out....(sorry, couldn't help it) yet there are no end of nicknames - all of them meant to be derogotary terms - for the Germans.

Huns, Bosche, Krauts, Jerry etc...yet all these are still used in modern war films.

Hypocrisy rools OK.[disgust]

Gene Hunt
30-Apr-09, 09:56
Thanks Phill.

I had that same story told to me by an ex RAF colleague after the approach by the Tonka that day. "Blackdog" is apparently out of favour now as well unfortunately.

I wont be seeing the remake. I prefer the original.

lister
30-Apr-09, 20:05
Thanks Phill.

I had that same story told to me by an ex RAF colleague after the approach by the Tonka that day. "Blackdog" is apparently out of favour now as well unfortunately.

I wont be seeing the remake. I prefer the original.

Cant they make original films anymore? are they all spinning in the same direction,money,if a historic film has a good following then they'll remake it however badly and we will go an see it.

Rheghead
30-Apr-09, 20:15
I read in my newspaper yesterday, via the 'Letters' column that Guy Gibson's Labrador in the remake of 'The Dambusters' is to be named 'Nigsy'.

If your source is correct then how will the name change alter the portrayal of the bravery of the bombing crews? What is in a name? It is just a change of name of the bloke's dog for pity's sake not some major change of the actions.:lol:

I'll bet there'll more changes from the original that may reflect more realism, more changes to reflect different attitudes and brevity for production purposes, etc.

I have no intention of sitting down and watching this film and believing it is a real-life documentary because it is a film.

But I guess one thing that isn't up for alteration is the portrayal of the bravery of the bomb crews.

They could rename the dog Moseley for all I care but that still wouldn't make one iota of difference to what the film is all about. But if they rename the dog to a benign name to avoid upsetting someone then surely that is a good thing, no?:confused

alex
30-Apr-09, 20:46
I am totally fed up with political correctness and don't believe it has achieved anything positive in relation to interpersonal relations between culture or gender. In this case it will make the remake a reflection of our times as the original was a reflection of its own.

The changing the name of a dog in a remake is a bit silly, does not the original movie seem a bit over patriotic for our multi-cultural and religiously tolerant nation. I think remaking it at all is a bad idea as the whole theme is decidedly anti-German :eek: and I'm willing to put a shilling down on the table to anyone who reckons the Brits will come out as more heroic than the Yanks. Can I say "Yanks"?

I am confident that every insult deleted from our vocabulary by the PC guardians will be replaced by another in the playgrounds of our schools and streets of our cities. Fortunately, I don't understand most of them so they pass me by [lol] till helpfully explained.

northener
30-Apr-09, 21:27
If your source is correct then how will the name change alter the portrayal of the bravery of the bombing crews? What is in a name? It is just a change of name of the bloke's dog for pity's sake not some major change of the actions.:lol:

I'll bet there'll more changes from the original that may reflect more realism, more changes to reflect different attitudes and brevity for production purposes, etc.

I have no intention of sitting down and watching this film and believing it is a real-life documentary because it is a film.

But I guess one thing that isn't up for alteration is the portrayal of the bravery of the film crews.

They could rename the dog Moseley for all I care but that still wouldn't make one iota of difference to what the film is all about. But if they rename the dog to a benign name to avoid upsetting someone then surely that is a good thing, no?:confused

You're absolutely right Rheghead, changing the dogs name in itself isn't exactly a major issue. It is, as you say, a film to entertain and not a documentary.

However, many of the viewing audience will never have seen the original, or even be aware of the feats of 617 Squadron. So this film has to have a certain amount of historical accuracy if it is to be taken seriously.
It is, after all, a film about a very small group of men on a well documented mission - not a campaign (say, as in the film 'Pearl Harbour') or a fictional outfit (Saving Private Ryan).
And I believe that in making a film such as this the film makers should portray the characters and actions fairly accurately - and in my opinion that includes not changing names.

I wouldn't say that it is meddling with history...but it is certainly tinkering with it in an annoying fashion.

Fly
30-Apr-09, 23:08
What's the betting it won't be Americanised? B17's for Lancasters and Guy Gibson played with an American accent, but maybe I'm getting cynical.

davlaurjen
01-May-09, 00:08
Or they could have called him "Swartz" that would have gone along with the colour of the Dog.

In reality I suppose if they did not want to use the "N" word in the film then since the Dog was Black the usual name for a Black Dog is "Blackie", that would have been far better I would have thought.
You must have been reading my mind!

percy toboggan
01-May-09, 09:59
Or they could have called him "Swartz" that would have gone along with the colour of the Dog.

In reality I suppose if they did not want to use the "N" word in the film then since the Dog was Black the usual name for a Black Dog is "Blackie", that would have been far better I would have thought.

But 'Blackie' was also often used as a term (not necessarily of abuse) for immigrants in the forties and fifties. I'm also wondering why a British bomber pilot would name his dog in German terms.'Schwartz' indeed:roll:

Rheghead: Of course the film - if it's any good will not be completely ruined by calling the dog 'Nigsy' or anything else.

This is a remake though of an iconic landmark both in British cinema History and the Royal Air Force. My indignation is borne of frustration because such trivial ,trifling detail as a dogs name should even be considered alongside the accurate portrayal of such momentous events.