I dont know about you, but......?

[Bazeye]

with the recent news revealing that 11 out of the 12 muslims arrested yesterday were in the UK on student visas, isnt it time we stopped them? The UK has allowed more than 250,ooo foreign nationals into the country to "study" at universities and colleges. This is seen as the easy route into the UK for many who would otherwise not be allowed into the country and remain here. Between 2004 and 2008 around 42,000 student visas were granted to Pakistani nationals, and under current rules there is no legal mechanism to ensure, that once in the UK, people granted student visas actually study or even attend the colleges. In 2007 , at one university alone,Portsmouth, hundreds of students who were offered places failed to turn up. Among the missing were 2 from Iraq, 16 from Saudi Arabia and 379 from Pakistan(I can see a pattern developing) If they want to study, why cant they do it in their own countries?

[Rheghead]

If they want to study, why cant they do it in their own countries?


Via Open University?:confused

[porshiepoo]

with the recent news revealing that 11 out of the 12 muslims arrested yesterday were in the UK on student visas, isnt it time we stopped them? The UK has allowed more than 250,ooo foreign nationals into the country to "study" at universities and colleges. This is seen as the easy route into the UK for many who would otherwise not be allowed into the country and remain here. Between 2004 and 2008 around 42,000 student visas were granted to Pakistani nationals, and under current rules there is no legal mechanism to ensure, that once in the UK, people granted student visas actually study or even attend the colleges. In 2007 , at one university alone,Portsmouth, hundreds of students who were offered places failed to turn up. Among the missing were 2 from Iraq, 16 from Saudi Arabia and 379 from Pakistan(I can see a pattern developing) If they want to study, why cant they do it in their own countries?

Totally agree.
Something needs to be done but I don't see it happening.
This country has become a great escape route for many foreign nationals, our ridiculous flexibility has opened us right up to this kind of thing and we've put our country and our people at serious risk.
But hey ho, we're politically correct in all we do :eek:

[Alice in Blunderland]

Is it a case of issuing no visas for studying in this country to any foreign nationals :confused

[bekisman]

Rheghead; "Via Open University?"
Nah, come on, surely you had a look?:

Saudi Arabia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Saudi_Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Saudi_Arabia)
Pakistan; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Pakistan)
Iraq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Iraq)

[Rheghead]

Rheghead; "Via Open University?"
Nah, come on, surely you had a look?:

Saudi Arabia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Saudi_Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Saudi_Arabia)
Pakistan; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Pakistan)
Iraq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Iraq)

Are women allowed to learn there with full equal opportunities?:confused

[Penelope Pitstop]

As poshiepoo says this country is far too PC.

We are too scared to do this, too scared to do that for fear of not conforming to being PC:confused

[bekisman]

Rheghead: "Are women allowed to learn there with full equal opportunities"
Mmm, I thought, quote; 'with the recent news revealing that 11 out of the 12 muslims arrested yesterday were in the UK on student visas' were all blokes?

[porshiepoo]

Is it a case of issuing no visas for studying in this country to any foreign nationals :confused

I think it's more a case of this country needing more stringent rules in place than what we currently have.





Our policy at the moment appears to be let them in and deal with them when they're here. While I understand that those who are seeking genuine asylum cannot go through months of red tape and questioning before being granted permission to enter, I do think that this country (or the leaders of it) needs to start putting the health of the country and its citizens ahead of appearances.

This country has become a stomping ground for all the vile, immoral and murderous leaches of other countries, who flee here to garner our support knowing that generally this country offers everything to these 'seekers' and nothing to its own.

What we also need to remember is that these criminals and terrorist suspects that we allow to live here are contributing significantly (numbers wise) to the future of this country and what it is moulded in to.

These murderous and/or terrorist suspects that we allow in through our feeble system do not change their attitudes once here, they do not intend or even care whether this country prospers as it's not in their nature to do so, or at least not in any humane way.
The student loophole to get in to the UK has now been uncovered and aired to the public but how many more are there? How many more terror suspects do we harbour, how many more genocide suspects will we free without due trial?
IMO this country desperately needs to curtail the amount of any persons trying to enter this country with the intent to live and/or work here, regardless of how it looks to other countries. We have to toughen up, do what is in the best interests of the safety of the UK and have a complete re-think of our policies.
Why the heck we are too frightened to toughen up like other countries do is beyond me.

Ain't gonna happen though. The stories we discuss here today will become more and more frequent, more and more desperate until eventually this country will be just too dangerous to live in.
It will be full of multi nationalities that cannot speak one iota of English, we'll be the central operating base for terrorists (oops sorry students), full of vile foreign people suspected of heinous crimes ( but at least we gave them freedom) etc etc. And will they respect this country and it's people for all we've given them? Nope, they'll blow us up soon as look at us, ethnically cleanse us or just simply overwhelm us in numbers.

Gosh I am positive today huh!

[Lingland]

Not sure if this comment is appropriate let the punishment fit the crime

[DOCTOR]

I have been reading this thread with quite an interest and watching different responses. I thought I would give my perspective on this issue. :)

The reason British Universities are offering these overseas students places is money. The tuition fee for a degree paid by a British student is in the range of £1800 per annum, it is free for Scottish students in Scottish Universities.

The overseas students pay in the range of £12,000 to £20,000 per annum as tuition fees. This money is used to run the Universities. If you stop these overseas students then some of the Universities would run into financial difficulties. All of you are aware of term “financial difficulties”; it means some Universities may close. The British Universities hold on regular a basis student fares in these students home countries. It is done through the British Council or some private companies. The students are given information for different courses and their applicability. These students are recruited by the Universities.


A question asked was:

Why do these students come to UK?

The answer is to better educate themselves, get good degrees and qualifications and in the end a good job or a career. There are fewer opportunities within their own countries. They compete in the open competition for a job after their qualification. Is it a crime to strive or work hard for a better future? :D

The next step is issuance of a Student visa.

It is issued by the British High Commission / Embassy. The students have to satisfy the Immigration Officer of their plans. It includes acceptance of an offer from a British University, financial sources to fund the studies (proof of funds in the bank). There are many talented students who cannot make it due to the lack of the above.

Once in the UK the Student Visa is renewed annually. They have to satisfy to the Home Office the progress in their studies, their financial situation (bank statements etc). This renewal of their student visa is not free and the Home Office charges ( in the range of £ 500 or so for it ). There are false Universities set up by British Nationals which can offer for a handsome fee, false paperwork and documentation to present to the Home Office.

There is another loophole in the system. The overseas students are allowed to work part time. Some of them work full time (with the awareness of the employers who are turning a blind eye to this, cheap labour for them.)

The majority of the overseas students complete their education and move on in their life. This could be in the UK, their own home country or a country where the job offer is.

As far as the English language is concerned, each University accepts different scores of IELTS (International English Language Testing System). This test is administered by the British Council overseas. It has four components to the test reading, writing listening and speaking. The students have to pass all four components to be accepted for a course in the University.

The students arrested are12 or so. These are the black sheep as you get in all walks of life. If a criminal lives in one city does this mean that all the citizens of that city are criminals?

There are loopholes in this system the same as in many of the systems in Britain which will always be used and abused by the minority which then gives a bad name to the majority.

[northener]

Good post, Doctor. Some good information on there. And welcome to the Jungle.:D

You're right in saying that you wouldn't label all citizens of a city criminals because of a minority.























Apart from Scousers, that is............

[Kenn]

Well said Doctor an informative post.

[Fly]

Nothing will change until we get rid of the lunatics who are running the asylum.http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon8.gif

[hotrod4]

Nothing will change until we get rid of the lunatics who are running the asylum.http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon8.gif
Or even the lunatics running the assylum system?

[Welcomefamily]

As Doctor so rightly says we need their money, many courses would not go ahead with out them, Post Graduate Courses can reduce their fees to British students by meeting quotas from students outside of the EU.

Likewise the value of the degree from a UK University is well known and from certain older universities or specialist subject ones, its effect will be lifelong.

[squidge]

The best guess figures that i can find are that there are around 330 000 overseas students studying in Britain and China appears to send the most students here to study rather than pakistan. Overseas students are important to the economy of the universities and to their culture as well. I think to stop this would be a real shame. There have been changes made apparently in the systems and this means that non attendance is reported, students have to be recommended by a university in their own country and monitored by that university. I understood from listening to an interview yesterday on radio 4 that most universities arrange for all their overseas students to be interviewed by "agents" or academics working for them in other countries to ascertain whether they are genuine and able or not.
There was some suggestion that biometric identity thingies will helpin the prevention of this sort of trouble but i have my doubts. One of the questions i would be interested to know the answer to is whether these people allknew eachother before they came here or on whether they have been radicalised ( is that even a word????) since their arrival. IN which case we need to look at what is going on "on campus"

[Lingland]

So once again likie most things it comes down to Money Money Money

[percy toboggan]

Is it a case of issuing no visas for studying in this country to any foreign nationals :confused

Just Pakistan for now I'd have thought.
Why throw the baby out with the bathwater when the bathwater is alive with people hostile to the UK, and the west in general?

The baby is represented here by those who wish us no harm and swell the coffers of the education budget.

Personally though I'd ban all foreign 'students' when we cannot even provide a majority of our own kids with a decent standard of a rounded, worthwhile education.

[rich]

Percy, do you consider you got a well rounded education?

[percy toboggan]

Percy, do you consider you got a well rounded education?

Absolutely, and I sense where you are coming from.

What I did with my education is another matter entirely. Having had a fair to middling eleven-plus result I was fairly fortunate to attend a Technical High School for Boys in south Manchester in the early to middle sixties. Unique I believe to this area at that time.

Compared to many of todays youngsters it was an education par excellence.

Thanks for asking. I'll not bother returning the compliment because frankly, I'm not interested in you, your education or the prejudiced and sneering opinions you hold of myself.

Always glad to enlighten the curious though - you are the moth to my lightbulb Rich...'tis as plain as a Pikestaffe. Would that I might hold others in such thrall. Enjoy me whilst you get the chance.;)


regards
Toboggan

[ecb]

Perhaps there could be a restriction on students from certain countries associated with Al-qaeda type terrorism. Not all overseas students pay full fees, some even get schpolarships from the UK Government:

http://www.educationuk.org/pls/hot_bc/page_pls_user_advice?x=146519708512&y=0&a=0&d=4460

[northener]

A blanket ban on certain nationalities will do nothing apart from cause the terrorists to change tack and recruit from less obvious countries
I'm sure there are, for example, those who support terror organisations in Western friendly Middle East states such as Jordan. Don't forget Mr O. Bin Liner is himself a Saudi.

There are still a minority of repulsive gits in the US who would actively support the PIRA if they returned to violence. Ban the US? Now that would be funny.:Razz

So blanket bans would be non-productive.

A very good friend of mine holds a senior position at Buckingham. A large amount of their students are foreign nationals from all corners of the globe. To infer that some of them shouldn't be allowed here on grounds of nationality (or, lets face reality here - religion) goes against the grain somewhat.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Why should the majority suffer for what again seems to have been the mindless actoins of the minority.

If thats the case why just ban students they are only the tip of the iceberg. Was it not a doctor who tried to blow up Glasgow airport ? Many others come into this country to work hard and give something into the community they live in. :)