Clairvoyants in wick [Archive] - Caithness.Org Forums

trix

03-Apr-09, 15:50

i wid lek til go but will be a bit tied up (hopefully) [lol]

i wis at one in 'e backer choost over a year ago an it wis really guid, cana mind her name...nicole maybe? iv seen her name mentioned on here a few times since.

i wis ayre doin a bit o' research as no one hes iver died that i wid lek til speak til...but fie what i could gether 'e lascie wis prity guid. i spoke til 'e kiddies who got readins an she wis spookly accurate...apparently.

if yer no doin any'hin else an yer interested ye should go doon a look, even if its choost til suss oot if they could be fake....;)

Dynamic Sounds

03-Apr-09, 17:23

Iris Dickson from Aberdeen, have heard her at a previous evening - brilliant! Be there or be square :lol:

Are you calling someone we both know square????? :Razz

anneoctober

03-Apr-09, 23:45

Are you calling someone we both know square????? :Razz
Did n't notice you there either, so you musta been sat home watching the square box!! [lol]

crayola

03-Apr-09, 23:52

I wasn't there but that's because I'm down here.

Have you ever considered inviting a real shaman or do you restrict yourselves to the usual medium types?

scorrie

04-Apr-09, 00:00

Did anything filter through on the Ether regarding the Grand National result on Saturday?

butterfly

04-Apr-09, 00:04

Crayola,What's a Shaman?:confused

crayola

04-Apr-09, 01:07

Crayola,What's a Shaman?:confusedA general introduction is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism). Try any pagan website for more.

Dynamic Sounds

04-Apr-09, 01:41

Did n't notice you there either, so you musta been sat home watching the square box!! [lol]

I had to be at home to deive her to her work, and we both know that I am a square! lol

Metalattakk

04-Apr-09, 01:48

<snip>...even if its choost til suss oot if they could be fake....;) </snip>

Attendance isn't necessary, m'dear. Education, however, is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect

katarina

04-Apr-09, 12:22

Attendance isn't necessary, m'dear. Education, however, is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect

What would you say to psychic who doesn't look at you, asks no questions, and does not charge? There is a woman in Balantor who does just that and she is very good. It kinda blows the cold reading for profit theory out of the window, although I have no doubt there are many fakes out there.
I have been to five mediums in my lifetime. Two were definately cold reading and what they told me was pretty general - could be made to fit half the population I thought. but the other three really surprised me by what they knew - names, events etc. spot on. for all you people who want to shout the odds, your research should surely include a visit to at least some of these so you can present a more valid arguement - then maybe we will take your views more seriously.

Metalattakk

04-Apr-09, 17:48

What would you say to psychic who doesn't look at you, asks no questions, and does not charge? There is a woman in Balantor who does just that and she is very good. It kinda blows the cold reading for profit theory out of the window, although I have no doubt there are many fakes out there.
I would suspect she takes your name and address when you make a booking to see her, yes? Then she'll use a technique called 'hot reading' to gain information about your relatives names and trades, and a whole plethora of information about yourself which is freely available to anyone who seeks it.

I have been to five mediums in my lifetime. Two were definately cold reading and what they told me was pretty general - could be made to fit half the population I thought. but the other three really surprised me by what they knew - names, events etc. spot on. for all you people who want to shout the odds, your research should surely include a visit to at least some of these so you can present a more valid arguement - then maybe we will take your views more seriously.
Take my arguments as seriously as you wish.

I have no more a desire to throw away my hard-earned money on these noxious charlatans than I have a chance to educate those who will not be educated.

Believe in nonsense if you will, but at least entertain the idea that it is no more than well-rehearsed piffle.

Fran

05-Apr-09, 01:31

Some people were visibly shocked by the aberdeen clairvoyant in the francis Street Club last night because of her accuracy with details of their deceased relatives. It really was amazing.

katarina

05-Apr-09, 13:05

I would suspect she takes your name and address when you make a booking to see her, yes? Then she'll use a technique called 'hot reading' to gain information about your relatives names and trades, and a whole plethora of information about yourself which is freely available to anyone who seeks it.

.

Actually she did not have my name or address. My friend made the booking and gave her first name only. She did not know who we were. Any more suggestions?

hotrod4

05-Apr-09, 13:38

I suppose it depend on if you are a believer or not, there will be some psychics who are charlatans but there will be some who are genuine.

Julia

05-Apr-09, 14:05

Just noticed your avatar Hotrod, I never guessed you to be a Jeremy Kyle fan?

Fran

05-Apr-09, 18:26

Im heading out with a friend to Christine who does readings in john o graoats next friday am all excited never been before.

Christine is excellent. I felt a lot happier after seeing her.

Metalattakk

06-Apr-09, 01:56

Actually she did not have my name or address. My friend made the booking and gave her first name only. She did not know who we were. Any more suggestions?

Yep. Someone's telling lies. Either that or it was all basic Barnum statements.

anneoctober

06-Apr-09, 11:07

Yep. Someone's telling lies. Either that or it was all basic Barnum statements.
Obviously, you are not open to anyone's opinion but your own. I for one, am fed up with your nastiness. As my mum & dad used to say, if you can't say anything nice, then say nothing at all. Everyone has their own beliefs, it's not for you or indeed any of us to brow beat people into submission. Oh and dont bother posting a sacastic reply as I wont be reading this thread again. [disgust]

Metalattakk

06-Apr-09, 14:58

telfordstar

06-Apr-09, 15:14

Christine is excellent. I felt a lot happier after seeing her.

Thanks fran im really excited about going.

telfordstar

06-Apr-09, 15:15

Hmmm. Seems some people don't like their version of reality being challenged, perceiving any such challenge as 'nastiness'. :roll:

As I've said before, I've no chance of educating those who will not be educated. Their minds are closed because they want/need to believe, and it's this very desire that the charlatans prey on.

Then leave it at that then. You obviously dont believe but some of us do.

Metalattakk

06-Apr-09, 15:24

Aye, but why do you believe?

I'd be very interested to know if the answer is anything more than 'I just do'.

katarina

06-Apr-09, 16:36

[QUOTE=Metalattakk;529309]Hmmm. Seems some people don't like their version of reality being challenged, perceiving any such challenge as 'nastiness'. :roll:

As I've said before, I've no chance of educating those who will not be educated. Their minds are closed because they want/need to believe, and it's this very desire that the charlatans prey on.[/Q

That was my thoughts exactly when reading your post. YOU will not be educated, YOU think that what you believe must be true with no real research. I am not a liar - my friend is not a liar, and the things Anita came up with were astonishingly accurate. I once was very skeptical, and went along expecting cold reading every time - I am still wide open to rational explanations - but so far have had none. To simply state 'some one must be lying' is no valid argument and only shows just how ignorant you are.
And anyway, since she doesn't charge and only wants to use her gift to help people (her words) What's in it for her?
And by the way, why do I believe? As I say, I have no rational explanation for things that have been told to me. Also very acurate future predictions, (things I was told years ago which at the time I thought no way but most have happened) things that even with background research, no one could have forseen.

honey

06-Apr-09, 16:55

Hmmm. Seems some people don't like their version of reality being challenged, perceiving any such challenge as 'nastiness'. :roll:

As I've said before, I've no chance of educating those who will not be educated. Their minds are closed because they want/need to believe, and it's this very desire that the charlatans prey on.

the words "pot, kettle and black" spring to mind... seems to me you want to change other folks opinions on this matter without budging on your own views....

Metalattakk

06-Apr-09, 20:54

That was my thoughts exactly when reading your post. YOU will not be educated, YOU think that what you believe must be true with no real research.
What do you mean, 'no real research'? I think you'll find I've researched this in a lot more detail than almost all those who purport to 'believe'. If you take care to look, there are vast swathes of material available online which categorically debunks every single one of these charlatans. Start with James Randi and Derren Brown.

I am not a liar - my friend is not a liar /
And I'd expect you to say anything else? [lol]

/ and the things Anita came up with were astonishingly accurate. I once was very skeptical, and went along expecting cold reading every time - I am still wide open to rational explanations - but so far have had none.
Then I suggest you do some research. Go on, try it, you might surprise yourself.

To simply state 'some one must be lying' is no valid argument and only shows just how ignorant you are.
Where did I say any such thing? And you call me ignorant? :roll:

And anyway, since she doesn't charge and only wants to use her gift to help people (her words) What's in it for her?
No idea. Maybe she's deluded or attention-seeking. Maybe she has a 'plan'. One thing is for sure, she's not doing it for 'nothing'.

And by the way, why do I believe? As I say, I have no rational explanation for things that have been told to me. Also very acurate future predictions, (things I was told years ago which at the time I thought no way but most have happened) things that even with background research, no one could have forseen.

So basically you believe in it all, simply because you can't understand how it's done? One shudders to think how you are with magicians. :eek:

teenybash

06-Apr-09, 20:58

Aye, but why do you believe?

I'd be very interested to know if the answer is anything more than 'I just do'.

Question is......why do you not believe.........and why does the mention of psychic get under your skin?

Metalattakk

06-Apr-09, 21:02

the words "pot, kettle and black" spring to mind... seems to me you want to change other folks opinions on this matter without budging on your own views....

You're right, I do want to change other people's opinions on this matter.

There's far too many people out there who are being taken for a ride by these noxious 'entertainers' - grieving people, people desperate for answers - all being hoodwinked out of their money by these lying, manipulative cheats.

If you class it as harmless entertainment then I'm sorry, you're missing what's really going on with these people, the harm they cause and the levels of duplicity they stoop to, just to screw a pound out of you.

And you're right, I will not budge on this. Why on earth should I?

Metalattakk

06-Apr-09, 21:09

Question is......why do you not believe.........and why does the mention of psychic get under your skin?

Why do I not believe? What is there to believe in? It's all explained by far greater minds than mine. I've read their explanations, their dismissals of the techniques used by these people, and once it's all explained, what other conclusion can an educated mind come to? It's like being told how the magician cuts the assistant in half. Once you know, the magic has gone.

Unfortunately, because of the nature of the people who believe in this claptrap - basically, they want to believe - even when a plausible answer to the question 'How do they do it?' is given to them, they still want to believe in psychics. They still want to believe that the magician really does cut the assistant in half.

And see my previous post as to why they 'get under my skin'.

dragonfly

06-Apr-09, 21:19

Metalattakk

06-Apr-09, 21:25

about 15 years ago I was down the town shopping pushing my 2 year old daughter in her buggy, went into an ironmongers and as I was going around a little old lady came up to me and said

"don't worry dear, he is watching over you both and the ring you're wearing now will soon be replaced by another from someone you have known a long time"

this left me astonished as I had never seen her before and not a clue who she was and its very doubtful she knew me - I was widowed when I was 3 months pregnant and the man I am now married to, I have known for nearly 30 years now

want to explain that one Metalattack?

I'll have a go:

It's probable that she knew you though, and knew you were recently widowed -after all, small communities are like that. It's also probable that most widows who remarry get married to someone they already know - especially in a small place like Thurso or Wick.

Basically, it was an educated guess - again a technique used by so-called 'mediums' and 'psychics'.

Add to that the phenomenon of selective memory - if it hadn't have come true, would it have been so significant? Well, no. You wouldn't have remembered it at all. You only remember it because she was right.

TBH

06-Apr-09, 23:17

Here's an example of what these "psychics" are capable of, this one supposedly world famous:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-C4dDEpB8LmE/psychic_gets_busted/

3of8

07-Apr-09, 00:22

You're right, I do want to change other people's opinions on this matter.

There's far too many people out there who are being taken for a ride by these noxious 'entertainers' - grieving people, people desperate for answers - all being hoodwinked out of their money by these lying, manipulative cheats.

If you class it as harmless entertainment then I'm sorry, you're missing what's really going on with these people, the harm they cause and the levels of duplicity they stoop to, just to screw a pound out of you.

And you're right, I will not budge on this. Why on earth should I?
You won't budge but everyone else must? Why should they? Why should they put up with your rantings about it all being false?

What do you mean, 'no real research'? I think you'll find I've researched this in a lot more detail than almost all those who purport to 'believe'.

Prove it! A real researcher would surely try to see if any psychic, if not all of them, is a liar by trying them out and proving it. I agree that there are cold readers, anyone with half a brain can see, will know, that there are charlatans and most people cold read other people, especially their relatives and friends, on a daily basis. What does your research consist of? Reading books, the internet? Ho hum! How boring. Like my research into Christianity? Can I prove that God really did do what some bloke said He did 2000 years ago? Nope! But it's taken as read that it happened.

Go on, Metal. Give it a try. See a psychic. See several. Tell them you are doing it for research purposes. Don't give them details. write down and publish your findings. Do some real research then come and start a thread about it, then maybe some people will listen to what your saying.

Of course, I know you won't. Your safe and secure in your ivory tower and too afraid of rocking your own little world aren't you? Ponder on this little quote from Aristotle - ‘It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.’ And this one from the philosopher Bergson - ‘The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.’ But best of all for you is this from the great G K Chesterton - ‘A weak mind is like a microscope, which magnifies trifling things but cannot receive great ones.’

You're a pompous ass! Get over yourself.

Metalattakk

07-Apr-09, 00:53

You won't budge but everyone else must? Why should they? Why should they put up with your rantings about it all being false?
They don't. They can choose to pass on by, at their will.

Like my research into Christianity? Can I prove that God really did do what some bloke said He did 2000 years ago? Nope! But it's taken as read that it happened.
Taken as read by whom, may I ask? Are you sure you researched the subject properly?

Go on, Metal. Give it a try. See a psychic. See several. Tell them you are doing it for research purposes.
At that point, I would be shown the door. They don't want people there who don't believe. It makes things troublesome for them.

And trust me, not one of them will get a penny from me.

Don't give them details. write down and publish your findings. Do some real research then come and start a thread about it, then maybe some people will listen to what your saying.
Why should I, when comprehensive research has all been done before by cleverer people than me? James Randi. Derren Brown. Do try to keep up.

Ponder on this little quote from Aristotle - ‘It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.’ And this one from the philosopher Bergson - ‘The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.’ But best of all for you is this from the great G K Chesterton - ‘A weak mind is like a microscope, which magnifies trifling things but cannot receive great ones.’
Is it my turn to quote "pot+kettle+black"? Hmm, I think so... :D

You're a pompous ass! Get over yourself.

Such wonderful prose. Doesn't make you right though. ;)

3of8

07-Apr-09, 01:34

Why should I, when comprehensive research has all been done before by cleverer people than me? James Randi. Derren Brown. Do try to keep up

See! You assume they're right. Do your own research, don't plagiarise! Besides, James Randi is a professional sceptic. (Iam keeping up) He gets paid to be one. Just like a psychic may get paid. Pot+kettle+black? Brown is just a hypnotist who appears to have worked on you!:)

Such wonderful prose. Doesn't make you right though. ;) None of what you say makes you right either

Pompous ass quote I got from here: http://mogadalai.wordpress.com/category/academic-life/ - enjoy

HowTo Lecture: ten commandments (http://mogadalai.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/howto-lecture-ten-commandments/)
VII. Thou Shalt Not Be a Pompous Ass.
For heaven’s sake, get over yourself. Teaching will humble you, so don’t be afraid to lighten up. Never do any of the following:
* Make derogatory remarks about the quality of the student body at your college or about the college itself. (Rival institutions are fair game!)
* Make snide comments about any of your colleagues. (Though tasteful wisecracks about the administration go down a storm.)
* Appear smitten by your own cleverness. (Self-deprecating humor works much better.)
* Make remarks such as “This is far too complicated to discuss with you.”
* Brag about your accomplishments.
* Make remarks about how students were so much better in your day.
* Constantly deliver lectures that go over students’ heads.
* Communicate (verbally or through your demeanor) that students are an annoyance you must tolerate.

3of8

07-Apr-09, 01:41

Why should I, when comprehensive research has all been done before by cleverer people than me? James Randi. Derren Brown. Do try to keep up.
Putting yourself down here. Who says they're cleverer than you? Where's your proof?;)

Metalattakk

07-Apr-09, 02:17

See! You assume they're right.
I assume they're right only after reading their missives and accepting the obvious as the truth. As is my choice.

Do your own research, don't plagiarise!
Again, why? There's a plethora of research on this subject already. Me throwing money at more charlatans isn't going to do anything other than fill their pockets. Are you one of these charlatans, looking to profit? :D

Besides, James Randi is a professional sceptic. (Iam keeping up) He gets paid to be one. Just like a psychic may get paid. Pot+kettle+black? Brown is just a hypnotist who appears to have worked on you!:)
Your opinions are noted. A request for proof to back up your claims is respectfully made.

None of what you say makes you right either

Pompous ass quote I got from here: http://mogadalai.wordpress.com/category/academic-life/ - enjoy

HowTo Lecture: ten commandments (http://mogadalai.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/howto-lecture-ten-commandments/)
VII. Thou Shalt Not Be a Pompous Ass.
For heaven’s sake, get over yourself. Teaching will humble you, so don’t be afraid to lighten up. Never do any of the following:
* Make derogatory remarks about the quality of the student body at your college or about the college itself. (Rival institutions are fair game!)
* Make snide comments about any of your colleagues. (Though tasteful wisecracks about the administration go down a storm.)
* Appear smitten by your own cleverness. (Self-deprecating humor works much better.)
* Make remarks such as “This is far too complicated to discuss with you.”
* Brag about your accomplishments.
* Make remarks about how students were so much better in your day.
* Constantly deliver lectures that go over students’ heads.
* Communicate (verbally or through your demeanor) that students are an annoyance you must tolerate.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much. ;)

Putting yourself down here. Who says they're cleverer than you? Where's your proof?
Well, obviously they're cleverer than me, because by now they'd have left you in no doubt that psychics are nothing more than bunkum. But then, they're faced with the same problem I am - the believers want to believe, no matter the evidence presented before them.

Fran

07-Apr-09, 02:37

Metalattakk........so I take it you wont be going to their next event at Francis Street club on 8th/9th May!!!!

Metalattakk

07-Apr-09, 02:40

Metalattakk........so I take it you wont be going to their next event at Francis Street club on 8th/9th May!!!!
Sorry Fran, I'll certainly not be attending. They don't want me there anyway. ;)

honey

07-Apr-09, 09:14

And you're right, I will not budge on this. Why on earth should I?

I would never say you should, but you have to give others the same respect too.

Me, im sceptically open to psychics, and you are right about one thing, there are far to many folk out there claiming to have this gift that just take folk for ride, but that doesnt PROVE that this gift does not exist in anybody.

i am under the impression that you have had or someone close to you have had a bad experience with a medium/pyschic, but that doesnt mean its fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

i cannot prove for you that this is real

but you cannot prove to me its not...

until then, i think ill remain sceptically open!

katarina

07-Apr-09, 21:23

What do you mean, 'no real research'? I think you'll find I've researched this in a lot more detail than almost all those who purport to 'believe'. If you take care to look, there are vast swathes of material available online which categorically debunks every single one of these charlatans. Start with James Randi and Derren Brown.
. :eek:

One can always find what they want when doing research - I imagine you only give credence to the views that agree with yours. It's the same with anything. And if anyone tells you of their personal experience, of course that's rubbish or they are liars. go nurse your bigoted narrow minded ego and have a good life - for after all, that's all there is, isn't there? but remember there are more things in heaven and earth etc etc.

Sage

07-Apr-09, 21:31

Hmmmm

One of the first things we learnt at Uni was that statistics can tell you whatever you want, they can be manipulated to whatever outcome you desire. Same goes for research, politicians use this all the time.

It's respect that should be used

Repect yourself
Respect those around you
Respect your beliefs
Respect others beliefs and
respect everyone's right to their own beliefs.

If you give respect, you gain respect

I find a lot of messages here disrespectful and childish. Shame :(

But that is my opinion and may not be opinion of others.

scorrie

07-Apr-09, 21:35

Metalattakk........so I take it you wont be going to their next event at Francis Street club on 8th/9th May!!!!

Won't the Clairvoyants know the answer already? ;)

TBH

07-Apr-09, 22:01

Won't the Clairvoyants know the answer already? ;)Unless they have proven, scientificaly, that they have that capability then the answer would be a resounding no. And let's face it, how many would be willing to put their cash-cow on the line in the interests of science?

Metalattakk

07-Apr-09, 22:02

i am under the impression that you have had or someone close to you have had a bad experience with a medium/pyschic, but that doesnt mean its fair to tar everyone with the same brush.
Nope, as far as I know, no-one close to me has had any dealings at all with 'mediums/psychics'.

The reason for my disdain of these people is that they take money from grieving, desperate people and tell them lies. Their whole industry feeds on the grief of normal, working class people. It's ghoulish, macabre and sickening.

i cannot prove for you that this is real

but you cannot prove to me its not...

Nope, I cannot. But I can explain it. You cannot do the same in return.

I have read how they perform their 'miracles', and I understand their techniques. When faced with this revelation, what conclusion am I supposed to come to? As I've said before, the magician's cat is out of the bag. (Yay for mixed metaphors!) The illusion has been revealed.

/until then, i think ill remain sceptically open!
That's probably the best way to be, to be honest. And thanks for your sensible response.

One can always find what they want when doing research - I imagine you only give credence to the views that agree with yours. It's the same with anything. And if anyone tells you of their personal experience, of course that's rubbish or they are liars. go nurse your bigoted narrow minded ego and have a good life - for after all, that's all there is, isn't there? but remember there are more things in heaven and earth etc etc.

Ah, your last line there says it all. Didn't realise I was sparring with a religious zealot.

Metalattakk

07-Apr-09, 22:05

Unless they have proven, scientificaly, that they have that capability then the answer would be a resounding no. And let's face it, how many would be willing to put their cash-cow on the line in the interests of science?

James Randi has had a million-dollar challenge on the go where 'psychics' are challenged to prove they have these abilities under mutually agreed scientific laboratory conditions.

Guess how many have taken the challenge?

TBH

07-Apr-09, 23:47

James Randi has had a million-dollar challenge on the go where 'psychics' are challenged to prove they have these abilities under mutually agreed scientific laboratory conditions.

Guess how many have taken the challenge?Erm.......? None?:confused

Metalattakk

08-Apr-09, 00:11

Erm.......? None?:confused
Far from it.

To quote the Wikipedia (yes, I know ;)) article linked below:

To date, over 1,000 applications have been filed but no one has passed a preliminary test, which is set up and agreed upon by both Randi and the applicant.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation#The_One_Million _Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge).

TBH

08-Apr-09, 00:53

Far from it.

To quote the Wikipedia (yes, I know ;)) article linked below:

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation#The_One_Million _Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge).1000 numpties that thought they could beat the system? The rest are too wise to let themselves be exposed as fakes because their earning potential would amount to zilch, nada, etc.[lol]

katarina

08-Apr-09, 09:06

Far from it.

To quote the Wikipedia (yes, I know ;)) article linked below:

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation#The_One_Million _Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge).

Interesting - especially the bit, and I quote 'Dennis Rawlins claims the challenge is insincere, and that Randi will ensure he never has to pay out. In the October 1981 issue of Fate, Rawlins quoted him as saying "I always have an out".[

A genuine challenge might have been more illuminating. I myself have no time to go trawling the net, but I did watch a television program where one self confessed fraud and one genuine psychic each were given the same six people who had been chosen at Random off the street. The readings were televised. Afterwards the six members of the public were interviewed and all said without exception, what I myself thought while watching the program. The first reader (fraud) was general and not very good, the second (real) however was much more exact and rather impressive.

Metalattakk

08-Apr-09, 10:10

Interesting - especially the bit, and I quote 'Dennis Rawlins claims the challenge is insincere, and that Randi will ensure he never has to pay out. In the October 1981 issue of Fate, Rawlins quoted him as saying "I always have an out".
He was paraphrasing. It's all explained in the following few lines of that very article. I guess you just want to pick and choose the parts you want to believe. Either that or you're trying to deliberately mislead.

A genuine challenge might have been more illuminating. I myself have no time to go trawling the net, but I did watch a television program where one self confessed fraud and one genuine psychic each were given the same six people who had been chosen at Random off the street. The readings were televised. Afterwards the six members of the public were interviewed and all said without exception, what I myself thought while watching the program. The first reader (fraud) was general and not very good, the second (real) however was much more exact and rather impressive.
ROFL. A 'genuine' psychic against a 'fraud' psychic. :D

Ye couldna make it up!

honey

08-Apr-09, 10:49

But I can explain it. You cannot do the same in return.

I have read how they perform their 'miracles', and I understand their techniques. When faced with this revelation, what conclusion am I supposed to come to? As I've said before, the magician's cat is out of the bag. (Yay for mixed metaphors!) The illusion has been revealed.

1stly, apologies, im no good at multi quoting, and im at work, so tend to stick to one part of the debate at once ;)

i think you can explain how the frauds do it, but as you have had no experience, and no study yourself of this genuine gift, you cant IMHO really discredit it witht he same arguements/statistics.

i will say i used to be pretty gullable when it came to this sort of thing, then i watched Derrens Browns Sceance, where he showed these "techniques" in action, but even he doesnt completely dismiss the possibility that people can genuinely do this.

and at the end of the day, although you see people being ripped of by frauds, i have seen people who have been helped by psychics, and you cant take that away from them.

annthracks

08-Apr-09, 14:13

... but can we stop feeding the troll now please, before he explodes? :-)

katarina

08-Apr-09, 14:15

1stly, apologies, im no good at multi quoting, and im at work, so tend to stick to one part of the debate at once ;)

i think you can explain how the frauds do it, but as you have had no experience, and no study yourself of this genuine gift, you cant IMHO really discredit it witht he same arguements/statistics.

i will say i used to be pretty gullable when it came to this sort of thing, then i watched Derrens Browns Sceance, where he showed these "techniques" in action, but even he doesnt completely dismiss the possibility that people can genuinely do this.

and at the end of the day, although you see people being ripped of by frauds, i have seen people who have been helped by psychics, and you cant take that away from them.

this is very true. I could give examples on what has been told to me and what has come true, and the things no amount of cold reading could have uncovered, but metal would just accuse me of lying so what's the point?

Metalattakk

08-Apr-09, 17:17

<snip>..but metal would just accuse me of lying so what's the point?
I've never accused you of lying. Please get your facts straight.

this is very true. I could give examples on what has been told to me and what has come true, and the things no amount of cold reading could have uncovered...</snip>
You do realise that many of them use a bit more than just cold reading to achieve their 'miracles', don't you? Maybe your lack of understanding explains why you believe in whatever they tell you. ;)

Metalattakk

08-Apr-09, 17:25

1stly, apologies, im no good at multi quoting, and im at work, so tend to stick to one part of the debate at once ;)
No need to apologise. I've enjoyed the debate with you as you at least tend towards civility, which is certainly lacking from others.

i think you can explain how the frauds do it, but as you have had no experience, and no study yourself of this genuine gift, you cant IMHO really discredit it witht he same arguements/statistics.
Perhaps not, but I can try. If I fail, then hopefully people will begin to dare to entertain the idea of scepticism towards it all. That's really all I can hope and wish for.

i will say i used to be pretty gullable when it came to this sort of thing, then i watched Derrens Browns Sceance, where he showed these "techniques" in action, but even he doesnt completely dismiss the possibility that people can genuinely do this.
I suspect that's only done to calm the fevered brows of the reactionaries. You can see, even here, how easily upset they get. ;)

and at the end of the day, although you see people being ripped of by frauds, i have seen people who have been helped by psychics, and you cant take that away from them.
I'd question whether that help is actually helpful at all, in the long run. I've never been in favour of telling lies to people, no matter how good it makes them feel.

gleeber

08-Apr-09, 17:47

I'd question whether that help is actually helpful at all, in the long run. I've never been in favour of telling lies to people, no matter how good it makes them feel.

I would be better no till comment on this thread because I'm as sceptical as yourself MA and your doing ok without me.
Just a little comment though about the lies. I dont think the lies are deliberate. I think everyone is in the self delusion game. :eek:
I'm outta here quick.

katarina

13-May-09, 19:04

Im heading out with a friend to Christine who does readings in john o graoats next friday am all excited never been before.

Did you go? how did you get on?

tomacomen

13-May-09, 20:20

sorry for jumping in here guys, but ive always been quite intrigued by the paranormal etc.

Im not sure on mediumship etc, i think that it would be brilliant if it does exist (which i hope it does!) but i find myself often thinking "these guys are at it".

Ive been meaning to visit one for the craic like, just not to say anyting and keep a straight face and see what comes out of it. After seeing derren browns programs i know how easy it is to interperate mannerisms, facial expressions, voice tone etc and make a story from them. However seeing as many mediums charge a stupid amount of money and me being a skinto student ive not managed to so far. It also makes me wonder, are the ones that ask for "donations" as payment better to go to?

On the subject of derren brown, his program the seance was awesome!

katarina

14-May-09, 16:21

It also makes me wonder, are the ones that ask for "donations" as payment better to go to?

I would probably think so, then if you rhink its rubbish, you don't have to give them anything. I was like you and first went along only so that i could say 'what rubbish' And I must admit the first two were. I only went along the 3rd time because the clairvoyant concerned had such good reports. I must say I was amazed. No cold reading - in fact she didn't even look at me, claiming to read my aura. Asked no questions either. I just find it all very interesting.

anneoctober

14-May-09, 16:30

I would probably think so, then if you rhink its rubbish, you don't have to give them anything. I was like you and first went along only so that i could say 'what rubbish' And I must admit the first two were. I only went along the 3rd time because the clairvoyant concerned had such good reports. I must say I was amazed. No cold reading - in fact she didn't even look at me, claiming to read my aura. Asked no questions either. I just find it all very interesting.
TONIGHT Scrabster Hall, 7.30pm Tommy Goodwin from Inverness. Come along and see him at work, bring MA too, if he's scared to come alone....[lol]