View Full Version : Does anyone actually speak Galiec in Caithness?
I have just noticed the galiec (spelling) translation for an article on the main Caithness.org page. Made me wonder, why bother when I (personally) only know one person in Caithness who actually speaks the language. Am I wrong that the language is dead in Caithness and the road signs are there to annoy the locals and confuse the tourists? Or is this thread a red rag to the proverbial bull?
Do enlighten me.
Alice in Blunderland
30-Mar-09, 12:25
Okay one piece of enlightenment............our very own Weeboyagee speaks Gaelic. He has even won the MOD Gold medal for singing ( mmm cant think why ;) )
I know several people in the area who speak Gaelic. :D
I believe your Halkirk funny enough Weeboyagee works in Halkirk.
Green_not_greed
30-Mar-09, 12:44
One of my neighbours in Reay speaks fluent gaelic. But not to me - I hardly understand a word of it. Sounds lovely, though.
I know 3 people in the Wick area who are fluent. Oddly enough their all nurses! :eek:
my neice went to the gaelic nursery, she was doing really well at at, just a shame its not going to be carried further into her education.
I just wondered, if a group of Caithnessians sparked off a Gaelic conversation at a bar in Caithness, would they receive any sarcy comments or would it go without notice or even would they get some encouragemnt?:confused
Been there done that, nobody turned a hair.
But the most bizarre was a pub in Inverness where an Invernessian with chalenged social skills started a pro nazi tirade because he thought the company were from Israel!
Is there anywhere you can learn gaelic in caithness? As an adult I mean.
Tom Cornwall
30-Mar-09, 16:01
I watch the BBC Alba programmes with the sound turned off...why do people want to go back..if it was so good, why did people stop speaking it...don't say that it was outlawed...you could keep it going if you had really wanted to..
A comprehensive language policy for Scotland embracing Gaelic, Scots and community languages has been called for by MSPs from the Scottish Parliament's Education, Culture and Sport Committee.
The above statement I think is the obvious reason why we now have Gaelic translations on the org. seeing as our Orgmaster is chairman of the HRC Education Culture and Sport Cttee.
oldmarine
30-Mar-09, 20:55
I have just noticed the galiec (spelling) translation for an article on the main Caithness.org page. Made me wonder, why bother when I (personally) only know one person in Caithness who actually speaks the language. Am I wrong that the language is dead in Caithness and the road signs are there to annoy the locals and confuse the tourists? Or is this thread a red rag to the proverbial bull?
Do enlighten me.
I never thought about this and never heard anyone speak Gaelic during my times in Scotland. It is an interesting question. :roll:
CLI - The gaelic learners group - provide gaelic course in Thurso from time to time - if there were more requests I'm sure they would come more often - Try their website.
You could also try Sabhal Mor Ostaig - the run excellent week long course during summer.
BBC Alba show a gaelic learners programme "Speaking our language" at 7-30 every night. They have excellent material on their website too.
The group over at melness/talmine occassionally run course.
The Gaelic language is still going - we love it and want it to continue - it is not as straightforward as you may think, you are constantly surrounded by English in every media and it bombards your senses. (this is not a rant - or greiveance - or in any way anti-english language - I'm just saying - its not as straightforward as you might think) - Things have improved a lot with BBC Alba.
Bithinn toilichte gad bhruidhinn anns an Gaidhlig, ach an tuigseadh sibh ?
Another interesting philsophical question that is raised - (Alongside the question of identity - already discussed) - relates to progress.
How far have we progressed ? - Have we progressed at all ? What is the nature of our Progress ? How do we measure it ?
May have to start a new thread on that one !!
Whitewater
31-Mar-09, 00:05
I'm not a Gaelic speaker, but that is not by choice, it is the way I was brought up, no Gaelic speakers in the family, close or distant. I was never taught it. I'm not too sure either about modern day Caithnessians, there are a few in the county who are fluent in the language but I think perhaps 95% or maybe more couldn't care less.
Last week I had promised to pick up a gentleman from Mackays hotel who came from Stornoway, while he was waiting for me he had been in contact with this other aquantance of his who now lives in Wick and when I arrived they were both talking to each other in fluent Gaelic. However, both being gentlemen they immediately reverted back to English when I joined them, but I was intrigued, they were obviously old friends and even while conversing in English, Gaelic phrases crept in, which of course they instantly explained to me. I was facinated and I must admit I felt a bit out of it. No matter what we may think, it is perhaps a language we should all be looking at and at least attempting to understand the basics and finding out why so many people, ie Gaelic speakers want us to become conversant with it.
However, having said that, English is our first language and I do not want Gaelic road signs, they would be distracting, but I already said that and given my reasons in a previous thread.
I'm not a Gaelic speaker, but that is not by choice, it is the way I was brought up, no Gaelic speakers in the family, close or distant. I was never taught it. I'm not too sure either about modern day Caithnessians, there are a few in the county who are fluent in the language but I think perhaps 95% or maybe more couldn't care less.
Last week I had promised to pick up a gentleman from Mackays hotel who came from Stornoway, while he was waiting for me he had been in contact with this other aquantance of his who now lives in Wick and when I arrived they were both talking to each other in fluent Gaelic. However, both being gentlemen they immediately reverted back to English when I joined them, but I was intrigued, they were obviously old friends and even while conversing in English, Gaelic phrases crept in, which of course they instantly explained to me. I was facinated and I must admit I felt a bit out of it. No matter what we may think, it is perhaps a language we should all be looking at and at least attempting to understand the basics and finding out why so many people, ie Gaelic speakers want us to become conversant with it.
However, having said that English is our first language and I do not want Gaelic road signs, they would be distracting, but however, I already said that and given my reasons in a previous thread.
That's a good post whitewater and I agree that that the gaelic language needs to be acknowleged but its doing more than that. It's being forced on us and were paying for it. Its a wonderful language and theres nothing as heart warming as listening to fluent Gaelic speakers talking but where is it going to stop?
I know take the record off.
That's a good post whitewater and I agree that that the gaelic language needs to be acknowleged but its doing more than that. It's being forced on us and were paying for it. Its a wonderful language and theres nothing as heart warming as listening to fluent Gaelic speakers talking but where is it going to stop?
I know take the record off.
Not where is it going to stop but Why does it Need to stop? You say it needs to be acknowledged, then how else to acknowledge it than to have road signs, radio and television programmes. Canada is completely bilingual, no one finds the road signs distracting, they just read the language they understand best. It could be that simple in Caithness if people stopped talking about which came first or which is more important to them. One could also say that English has been forced on gaelic speakers.
i think we should have been taught gaelic in school's instead of french, with no disrespect to the foreigners that come into our country, i think it would be a challenge to get both us and them to learn the language as i know that (working with polish at work) it can be quite frustrating as they converse in Polish, i'd love to be bilingual and apparently (i may be making this up) it can lead to better intelligence within people. so win win?
i think we should have been taught gaelic in school's instead of french, with no disrespect to the foreigners that come into our country, i think it would be a challenge to get both us and them to learn the language as i know that (working with polish at work) it can be quite frustrating as they converse in Polish, i'd love to be bilingual and apparently (i may be making this up) it can lead to better intelligence within people. so win win?
I am bilingual and wish I could learn more languages. Gaelic is top of my list as I think it's most important to speak the language of your area. Other areas/countries have more than one language (Just look at Belgium, 3 as far as I know) and road signs are certainly not the only way of expressing it.
If Gaelic is a native language to Caithness then why not learn it? Even if it's not spoken much these days. It should at least be optional in schools. I had the option to learn Latin in school (in Germany) which is not spoken at all now, so don't tell me it's not worth learning a language nobody speaks. For Gaelic that is certainly not true anyway.
If nobody these days learns Gaelic the language will die. Some people might be ok with that but I don't think it's acceptable from a historic point of view.
Good point Stefan, I too learned Latin at school and did n't really see any application for it at the time however, it later proved to be of great assistance with understanding the romanse languages and to a lesser extent the structures of others.
gleeber. where is it being forced on you? If it were to be compulsary in schools then I could appreciate your arguement but the fact that the road signs are to be changed hardly seems enforcement!
I appreciate that to many it is a language of history and would seem to have little relevence in today's world but there are a number of related languages that are still in every day usage and from a scholar's point of view or a speakers, the loss of any language is to be regretted..
I originate from a part of the UK where the native language was banned but fortunately enough survived both in colloquialisms and the written word for it to be revived and after a long fight it is now officially recognised. I have but a basic knowledge of it and am unlikely to use it but I defend the right of any one who wishes to do so.
Okay one piece of enlightenment............our very own Weeboyagee speaks Gaelic. He has even won the MOD Gold medal for singing ( mmm cant think why ;) )
I know several people in the area who speak Gaelic. :D
I believe your Halkirk funny enough Weeboyagee works in Halkirk.
Used to work with him so hes the only Galiec speaker I know.
How is this for irony, I wanted to read about an old work colleague from Inverness, Jimmy "Apples" Macdonald. Looked it up on the BBC and the obituary is ONLY in Galiec. The Sunday Mail basically said that he had died with no obituary...so if anyone can translate this,....(:roll:) then I would appreciate it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/naidheachdan/story/2009/02/090202_apples.shtml
I am bilingual and wish I could learn more languages. Gaelic is top of my list as I think it's most important to speak the language of your area. Other areas/countries have more than one language (Just look at Belgium, 3 as far as I know) and road signs are certainly not the only way of expressing it.
If Gaelic is a native language to Caithness then why not learn it? Even if it's not spoken much these days. It should at least be optional in schools. I had the option to learn Latin in school (in Germany) which is not spoken at all now, so don't tell me it's not worth learning a language nobody speaks. For Gaelic that is certainly not true anyway.
If nobody these days learns Gaelic the language will die. Some people might be ok with that but I don't think it's acceptable from a historic point of view.
I think its perfectly acceptable. It doesnt really hold any importance anymore. Languages come and go and people have to accept this. At least we have plenty of written and audio records if anyone did need to go back to look/study Gaelic.
Another point I would like to make Stefan is that Gaelic isnt that language of our area...never has been....though I may be stoking the fire again. But I think its fair to say the majority of us here don't share a strong bond with Gaelic
attielattie
31-Mar-09, 15:52
Forgive my ignorance, but surely Gaelic was spoken long before it was written down, so why is it so unphonetic (if that's a word)? Why do Gaelic speakers pronounce bh and mh as v? Why are there so many silent letters - I know there are some in English and French but the pronounciations seem more logical somehow. And how the heck do you pronounce Inbhirpheorfhain (can't remember which, but it's one of the towns between Thurso and Inverness)? Sorry if I spelt it wrongly but I've only seen the sign from the window of a train.
And why do they not have Gaelic translations of modern terms like computer and television? Any time you hear those words on a Gaelic programme, they are spoken in English with a Highland sounding accent!
I am not slagging off Gaelic or speakers of that language, I am just curious.
And I agree with the person who says that learning Latin really does help you with so many things - medical terminology, learning Romance languages, even the meanings of obscure words.
As for the road signs business - fair enough if the place had a Gaelic name previously, but why invent a new one just for the sake of it? We seem to have managed so far without them. Will it really increase tourism, or is it just a tiny bit twee?
Oh well, that's my tuppence worth for now. :confused
There are plenty languages who don't have their own words for things. Just take German. No words for computer, airbag, usb stick, flash drive etc etc. could go on endlessly I think. I never noticed until I was fluent in English and tried to translate back to German.
Wether people have a bond or not has certainly something to do with how parents and teachers present an image of a language.
If Gaelic isn't the language of the area what area does it come from and what was spoken 2000 years ago in Caithness? English?
Sorry if that is a stupid question, I am just starting to get interested in the history of Caithness.
attielattie;- And how the heck do you pronounce Inbhirpheorfhain (can't remember which, but it's one of the towns between Thurso and Inverness)? Sorry if I spelt it wrongly but I've only seen the sign from the window of a train.
Inner fyo-har-in
attielattie
31-Mar-09, 19:21
Thanks Each, that's solved a wee puzzle. I was trying all sorts of pronounciations but hadn't hit on the correct one! :lol: Would never have guessed. Any idea what it means?
I think the name Dingwall is supposed to be of Norse origin, but some people dispute this. All very interesting.
Thanks Each, that's solved a wee puzzle. I was trying all sorts of pronounciations but hadn't hit on the correct one! :lol: Would never have guessed. Any idea what it means?
I think the name Dingwall is supposed to be of Norse origin, but some people dispute this. All very interesting.
My town of birth and my marriage ...and it means something like "thing valley".
I got this from wikipaedia...
This is a habitation surname, derived from an already existing place name, the town of Dingwall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingwall) in Ross-shire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross-shire). According to the old Statistical Account of Scotland, the name, formerly Dignaval or Digna vallis, took its origin from the richness of the soil of the lower grounds, which form a considerable part of the parish of Dingwall. Other writers, with greater probability, consider the name to be of Scandinavian origin, reflecting the settlement of this area by Viking invaders, and refer it to a word expressive of its being the seat of justice: the Scandinavian Þingvöllr (field or meeting-place of the thing, or local assembly - compare Tynwald, Tingwall, Thingwall in the British Isles alone, plus many others across northern Europe).
The Royal Burgh of Dingwall has always been known as Bailechaul by natives . In the book "Dingwalls Story of a Thousand Years" there is reference to this Gaelic name and also Norse influence. The 'Inbhirpheorfhain' also comes up in Scottish place names so now I am not sure which is correct - I think maybe Bailechaul as it certainly seems to predate the other.
I believe that in 2002 British Rail or some such body commissioned somebody to come up with Gaelic names for some places on the North line which previously had no Gaelic connection
There are plenty languages who don't have their own words for things. Just take German. No words for computer, airbag, usb stick, flash drive etc etc. could go on endlessly I think. I never noticed until I was fluent in English and tried to translate back to German.
Wether people have a bond or not has certainly something to do with how parents and teachers present an image of a language.
If Gaelic isn't the language of the area what area does it come from and what was spoken 2000 years ago in Caithness? English?
Sorry if that is a stupid question, I am just starting to get interested in the history of Caithness.
Pictish, whatever that would have sounded like. The only records we have of Pictish writing are in their symbol stones. We have no records of their language. After that, Norse, then after that, English! But Gaeldom has been on the fringes of Caithness so there have been many speakers of the language in the area.
Inbhir Pheofharan
The mouth of the river peffery - which runs from Strathpeffer.
Baile Chail means "cabbage town" - stemming from the agriculture market that used to be there before the cattle mart - so I'm told - I am not an authority on Gaelic place names.
Dingwall, if I can remember my studies, means Bay of the Thing? Thing (Ding) being a kind of meeting of importance between Vikings.
The 'wall' part of Dingwall is a misinterpretation by 19th century scholars of the viking 'va'. It was changed to mean 'wall' but originally meant 'Bay.'
Kirwall used to be Kirkja, which sounds like Kirkva.. I think... which was changed to Kirkwa then Kirkwall, So it means Bay of the Kirk. Does that make sense! argh! What a nerd!
Just a wee bit of info for you there
The good people in Strathpeffer considered themselves a cut above their neighbours down the hill in Dingwall who ate cabbages so that's why its also known as Ballachyle (phonetic gaelic) or Cabbage town as well as Dingwall the place of the Thing, the Norse meeting place, still held regularly on the Isle of Mann.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
03-Apr-09, 22:04
No,I dinnae speak Gaelic.Its as cheesy as Kilted Piper toilet roll holders and a keyring with your clan name on it.How will Gaelic die when ye have a Gaelic dictionary?Or how will Gaelic die when ye have a Melvich Gaelic choir?
the poacher
03-Apr-09, 22:16
its hard enough for some people to understand our caithnesian accent
without them trying to understand the gaelic language we are meant to be able to speek aswell
you do get some very clever people out there though who can speek gaelic.
not me or my family dont see the point of learning it when only a handfull of the whole of caithness can speek it.
I was pleasantly surprised by the reports in the Groat today about this issue. Theyre no hevin it without a fight. Good for them. Our Caithness councillors that is.
I think if the Gaelic movement intend to force their language and culture on everybody per se by political power alone, the least they could do in a democracy would be to present themselves at the polls as the Gaelic movement. Then we can consider such a serious change to the culture and language of Scotland and vote accordingly.
At the moment an unelected quango of Gaelic enthusaists, supported by sympathetic politicians and bureaucrats in Inverness and Edinburgh are plotting the Gaelicisation of Scotland. I say that is totally undemocratic and canna be alllowed.
I also noticed there are rumbles coming out from other areas in the Highlands concerning their own difficulty with this issue of Gaelicisation.
One of the top Gaels complained about name calling and totally neglected to acknowledge the difficulties of a race of people who are not like him.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
03-Apr-09, 22:43
Gaelic is the next P.C adventure.If I look at a roadsign I will look at the Scottish/English name before the Gaelic.If I read the Scottish version first before the Gaelic what does it make me?
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