View Full Version : Just Announced - Local Pre-schools set for closure
Saddly today it was released that Rainbow Rascals (Thurso), Lybster & Norlands (Wick) have been earmarked for closure. The staff found out today and have been gagged from discussing anything. Councillors will meet on Monday 27th to make the decision(3 working days away). It appears they are rushing this through without public discussion. Staff and parents to be told of the Council's decision on Tuesday 12 noon. I understand that this has been under review for the past 2 months - No one has talked to the staff or parents during this time and No one has visited the centre.
On the Highland Council web site it clearly states that they "committed to major expansion of both pre-school education"...............More Council whitewash!!!
Wickerchick
23-Feb-06, 08:27
Where is the Norlands playgroup as i've never heard of that one
Wickerchick
23-Feb-06, 09:13
I have looked on the Highland Council website but i can't find it and i would like to know as my child is going to a playgroup not unsimilar to the name of one of the playgroups, so anyone with any information about this would be very helpful.
Sorry for that type error
North Wick Nursery and Norlin as set to be integrated into a combine 3 & 4 year old provision.
As are Lybster Nursery & Light beams
and Three Bears @ miller Academy and Rainbow Rascals
cuddlepop
23-Feb-06, 13:33
This is more than likely happening because of the budget cuts in education.
Services are going to be cut right across the board.All I can suggest is to speakto the local councillors for that area. if you can prove rurality would make it difficult to attend you would have a case Have you got someone employed as the Working for Families co ordinator they should be able to help you as there is funding they can access to secure placements so people can either go back to work or further education
The council should also have a Childrens and Families Co.... too.
Keep the pressure up let them know you wont go away.:)
Review is now posted on Highland Council we site
http://www.highland.gov.uk/minutes/areas/caithness/caithness_committee/reports/2006/060227/cc_44_06.pdf
The review talks about Local Authority Provisions and Voluntary Partner Centres (VPCs). What exactly is a VPC and who runs it? What's wrong with combining two provisions on the one site? I dare say there must be something wrong, otherwise we wouldn't be reading complaints on here.
The proposals in the review are phrased in a somewhat different language from the statements I read on this thread. No surprise there, but am I missing something. :confused:
Apologies for the dumb questions, but I'm interested because there are (or used to be) similar arrangements for nursery provision in my own area.
bear in mind the council are also supposedly planning to drop advanced higher courses in high schools- courses which could have a direct relevance to university places etc if it comes to a choice surely the higher education needs to have the funding before nursery schools - in saying that I'm going to admit to being biased here because it still annoys me that I had to pay for my kids nursery education while students got grants and when my kids were of university age there were no grants and nursery was free! I got caught both ways!
Alice in Blunderland
23-Feb-06, 17:53
You dont have very much time.Your local councillors can either accept what is being recommended or not,feel free to let them know your opinions ,if they vote to accept it then they will consult with parents and staff.Jaimie Stone raised this in the Scottish Parliament yesterday afternoon during the Education debate that the council were not acting in the publics best interest yes he actualy mentioned some of the nurseries in Caithness by name.Make a loud noise the key words coming from the council are sustainability and wraparound care. Our campaign to save our nursery has been going for a year now but it is a long way from over.
cuddlepop
23-Feb-06, 21:39
Keep it up Alice you Know how much we hate bully boys.If they want to cut costs let them take a wage cut our future depends on this generation getting a good start in life.[mad]
Education, no matter if the children are 3 or 13 should be of the highest priority in my mind. There are so many other things that could be cut back but not education. I dont know anything about Council budgets but I do know that there are far less important budgets that could be cut back rather than this.
But unless someone kicks up a fuss it will probably happen.
Ok, let's play devil's advocate here.
Could someone answer my questions? In a moment of boredom I read the review this afternoon. It seemed perfectly reasonable to me.
Has anyone else read it?
The Advanced-Higher business is a different matter altogether, and it's even less clear to me what's going on from reading the various articles on the web.
Ok, let's play devil's advocate here.
Could someone answer my questions? In a moment of boredom I read the review this afternoon. It seemed perfectly reasonable to me.
Has anyone else read it?
The Advanced-Higher business is a different matter altogether, and it's even less clear to me what's going on from reading the various articles on the web.
Naughty, playing Devil's Advocate upsets some posters, Dr.S.
Dr.S, I have just read through the report and have concluded two things,
1. I thought I was good at meaningless waffle however I am willing to conceed to their vastly superior expertise.
2. My ability to interpret Admin-speak is very rusty and I must brush it up and then find where there is a Highers course covering it. (That's always assuming they too haven't suffered cuts)
From the point of view of the Highlands my impression is that the people who came up with the original idea were totally unaware that the Communities in the Highlands are a little spread out with large distances between.
The pre-education provisions were made using "guesstimates" which has proved wrong in the long term. (I have no idea how quickly the provisions were put into being in the first place)
The over-estimates and under-estimates need to be evened out as a matter of urgency.
Having got things so badly wrong in the first place wouldn't it be better to take time to make sure the Provisions were properly worked out on this occasion. (Other than money, why the mad panic to do it now, now, now)
On a more general point, has nobody taught them to put a short, clear and concise resume on the front of a report, leaving the details for those who require further clarification?
I suspect that a lot of worry and concern has been created by the lack of clarity about what the end results are meant to be.
I cannot decide if this is intended as an eradication of the system or simply a reorganisation.
Help please, I'm more confused than I normally am.
Saddly today it was released that Rainbow Rascals (Thurso), Lybster & Norlands (Wick) have been earmarked for closure. The staff found out today and have been gagged from discussing anything. Councillors will meet on Monday 27th to make the decision(3 working days away). It appears they are rushing this through without public discussion. Staff and parents to be told of the Council's decision on Tuesday 12 noon. I understand that this has been under review for the past 2 months - No one has talked to the staff or parents during this time and No one has visited the centre.
On the Highland Council web site it clearly states that they "committed to major expansion of both pre-school education"...............More Council whitewash!!!
What was it that the new Scottish Parliament promised? Open Government?
Were they not going to put a stop to all the Whitehall Secrecy. Weren't they going to make sure that Government was more "inclusive".
Now, suddenly, we are back to "Don't ask the people, they are so stupid they will surely make the wrong decision! "Time they realised that Nanny knows best and just swallowed the medicine we give them!"
Couldn't just be an act of spiteful revenge over a pay dispute and a strike a short time ago could it?
No, I can't believe in my wildest fantasies they would do something like that, or would they?
Help please, I'm more confused than I normally am.Me too. I still don't know what a Voluntary Partner Centre is.
I'm even more confused - you dont believe in God, but accept a position with the Devil?
cuddlepop
24-Feb-06, 14:43
Jaws can you come and fight my corner on Skye you have a brilliant way with words and the ability to see through piffle which is what this document is.
If you look upECS/18 SAVINGS MEASURE STATEMENT 2006 7 you will see what we're up against.This is my pet project as i have a vested interest. Please could you explain how they can say that the budget will stay the same in real tearms even after a cut.Rurality just doesnt come into their equations when they are guessing future need excetra.Oh i'm sooooo mad i could make them live our lifes even for a day.I bet they'd be throwing money at additional needs.(special needs is not the correct term to use anymore)
I[evil] thinl a vol partner centre is an organisation from multipel agencys... eg young carers.crossroads,youth voice. but i've never heard of it so only guessing
It is my understanding that a Voluntary Partner Centre is a playgroup which receives funding from the local authority, but is run and managed by a voluntary organisation - eg. pre-school organisation, committee of parents, etc.
I think the main points we have to remember here is that although the proposals aim to join playgroup children (3 yr olds) and local authority nursery children (4 yr olds) together under one centre giving people the impression that they are not "actually losing their provision" we have to realise that there will not be enough places available in the local authority nursery classes to accomodate both the 4 year olds and the 3 year olds together. Take one example the council have stated in their review - "3 bears nursery at miller academy are registered for a maximum of 22 children in a session". They run two session per day so this must mean a maximum of 44 children altogether. The council say there are currently 35 children attending. It also states that "Rainbow Rascals are registered for max of 17 children and 15 children attending". Correct me if I'm wrong but my sums add up to a total of 50 children requiring places in a provision which only has capacity for 44? I do believe, however, that the statistics the council have quoted are wrong anyway, which actually leaves even less places available for children. Lybster seem to be in the same position - school nursery having capacity to accomodate total of 18 children - currently have 12 children attending, and playgroup currently have 9 children attending. Again this would mean a total of 21 children requiring places but only a capacity for taking 18 - what happens to the poor extra 3 children in the village then - do they have to be excluded from their village's pre-school education and travel elsewhere to get it? I am totally baffled by these recommendations - maybe the councillors could enlighten me?
Thanks Moby. I get your drift now...
IMHO you'll need detailed arguments like those if you're hoping to convince disinterested folk, never mind Inverness-based apparatchiks. Good luck with it!
Scotsboy, the Devil pays better, at least in the short term - surely you knew that?
That is why I work in Saudi;)
It seems to me that the whole thing is made so complicated in the hope that people are given the impression that it is a "Reorganisation of Services" and do not notice that it is in fact a "Reduction in Services".
Just accept it's all in everybody's best interest, but, whatever you do, don't look too closely.
willowbankbear
25-Feb-06, 08:38
Keep it up Alice you Know how much we hate bully boys.If they want to cut costs let them take a wage cut our future depends on this generation getting a good start in life.[mad]
Nice 1 cuddlepop
Alice in Blunderland
25-Feb-06, 10:23
Keep it up Alice you Know how much we hate bully boys.If they want to cut costs let them take a wage cut our future depends on this generation getting a good start in life.[mad]
Yes they can get a good start in life in our local nurseries as they have been given excellent inspection reports.It strikes me that some money could be saved by cutting back on the amount of different people coming to inspect the schools.One body to inspect all aspects, pay the rest of the bigwigs off and hey presto instant savings.After all excellent reports wont help save a good nursery.The issue about the rural nurseries is.... not taking the children to town nurseries just to put them back to a country school unsettling and goes against policy but then if you make the rules you can break them.
I know it's a stupid question even the average five your old would have more sense than to ask, but has anybody ever heard any official suggest that money could be saved by massive cutbacks in Education Departments?
Sorry, when you have all got over the uncontrolled hysterical laughter and can type without bursting into fits again, I'm being just a tiny bit serious, honest.
It's always at the sharp end that any cuts are aimed. What really does need cutting away is the dead weight pressing down in them most of which could be pruned away without being missed.
I sincerely hope that the local Councillors who will be making their decision on Monday morning (10am at Thurso Town Hall - open to the public!) are reading this thread.
On Saturday at The Coop in Thurso alone we received over 900 signatures from local people appalled with Graham Nichols targeting of the Nurseries in his education cost cutting exercise - we did not have to hassle people to sign our petition, in fact quite the opposite, they were seeking us out and queing up to be able to sign. (On a noteable occasion - chasing us through the car park when we were leaving!).
We have only been given a couple of days to action anything as Mr Nichols appears to be rushing this through extremely quickly.....I wonder why.
Councillors - be assured the community as a whole does not appear to be in favour of the Mr Nichols cuts in what is an extremely important part of our education system - please remember on Monday that you are here to act in the Communities best interests and that this matter should not be decided at one meeting (when the public are unable to speak) WITHOUT any community consultation!
Many thanks to everyone who took time out to sign out petition - your support is greatly appreciated. Thanks to the Management and staff of the Coop in Thurso without whom we would not have realised the level of support on this matter in our Community. Thanks also to AliceinBlunderland for stearing us in the right direction!
Please do not hesistate to PM me if you would like your name added to our petition.
Alice in Blunderland
26-Feb-06, 09:39
If what I said was any help no problem Moby,as I said a good campaign means getting all your facts put together and presenting them well.Argue your case and listen to the councillors and officials ,take on board what they say and then see what you can suggest back to them.Remember this is not just a short campaign these issues will keep on rising as long as there is not enough money to go round.May I suggest a long hard talk with your MSP who represents us in the Scottish Parliament as they dish out the dosh to the Highland council and it doesnt seem to be enough to go round money they give out can be ringed for the intended cause ie nurseries/rural nurseries.Yes our council tax has gone up but that is only a small amount of money in comparison to what is in the great big money pot dished out by our lords and masters the Scottish Parliament.Its at times like this when you see them allocating money to their great causes abroad that you feel like saying charity begins at home...get your own house in order before offering to help with someone elses.
cuddlepop
26-Feb-06, 11:03
Well done Moby and co.Its a sign of the times when parents have to act the way they do.When challenged about consultation they will say as they always do,that you were consultated(some obscure way,if youd bling you'd have missed it).and had ample time to act.:confused:
Alice all this info about doing thinks like that should be on a help sheet ,fancy compiling one?because i've got a funny felling when the budgets are set for the financial year coming more action will be required.
Jaws the way i think they work at the Scottish Excecutive is:do as i say,not what you need; we.ve contacted them about the lack of funding in the past .I have meet with Jack McConnel,very nice man he is too.Handed him an a4 small folder to read and guess what no reply.
If you reading this Jack we haven't forgot!!!!!:evil
Wickerchick
27-Feb-06, 18:26
What makes me mad is that HPS has put Norlin Playgroup through for the combined Nursery/Playgroup without even telling us, we aren't even run by HPS, they seeminly said that we knew about this and were very happy for them to take over when in fact we are not happy at all we do not want them to take over and combine our playgroup with the nursery.
It seems that Mrs Brady from the Highland Preschool Services must have lost her ability to communicate over the last couple of months as it appears that she was the only one within HPS covering Caithness who was aware of the proposed closures.....................sorry mergers. (Same thing which ever way you say it.)
Did anyone go to the meeting in Thurso this morning about the proposed closures? I did intend going but my daughter had a bit of a bug so I couldn't go after all. I just wondered if the meeting was indeed open to the public or if as before it was changed at the last minute. Wondered what the next step was going to be, well done Moby and co on springing into action with your petition, make plenty of noise in all the right places and it could make all the difference.
Wickerchick
27-Feb-06, 23:41
Yes the meeting was open, i was at it and they disscussed all the playgroups and nurseries but it was proposed that they have another meeting on the 9th of March so that the parents and staff could be asked what they think, i didn't really hear to much of it as they were very quiet spoken and some kids were making a noise(not there fault though)
Thanks wickerchick, is the meeting on 9th March going to be open to the public too?
Apparantly ALL area council commitee meetings are open to the public - although they only have a limited number of seats. It would be fantastic if you could manage along to ensure we will have representatives there from all the nurseries targeted. I am usure whether or not this will be in Wick or Thurso but will get back to you later once I have spoken to our local councilors following our consultation meeting today at 12.30.
Alice in Blunderland
28-Feb-06, 14:37
How did the meetings go today, anyone heard ? .Jamie Stone MSP is up on Friday anyone who wishes should go bend his ear after all its down to finances again by the looks of the report.A good nag and moan will help if nothing else.
I can only speak for Rainbow Rascals in Thurso as I haven't managed to contact the other two nursery groups yet - our "Full Consultation" was an absolute farce!! Only one person in authority, Lindsay Gunn from SWD, she had no information to give us, no reasons why they were considering our unit for closure, no figures and no briefing..........etc. etc. We have insisted in proper and full consultation on the matter - she is to organise this and get back to us later this week. To be perfectly honest she was so out of her depth at the meeting we felt sorry for her!
Wickerchick
28-Feb-06, 18:59
Same for Norlin, she is going to give some information about things that i don't think is really necessary, its just to try and take the heat of her so she can pretend to help us. We are not going to take this sitting down, they are just cost cutting with playgroups but they can seem to find money to fund 2 and a half groups, i don't get that, if they have the money for one thing then surely there is money for the playgroups.
Wickerchick
03-Mar-06, 16:46
You know i was told today that they are trying to cut the costs by making the combined playgroup/nursery so they can have only one building and not 2 so they don't have 2 electricity bills and things like that, hows that gonna save 33,000.:confused
Funky_Foal
03-Mar-06, 17:41
they should discuss closing pre-schools with public
I completely agree Funky foal, however the education department at HC have decided that the stakeholders are the current parents at the three year old provision and the councilors and therefore the consultation meetings are for a small group of parents.
I think this is extremely short sighted of them - If parents cannot or do not wish to put their children into the new integrated 3/4 yr old provisions at the Primary school they plan for their P1 to P7 years they may decide to choose another primary school altogether. This will have a detrimental effect on school roles, staffing levels and create more composite classes within the effected primaries.
They say that savings can be made by integration but, in the case of Rainbow Rascals in Thurso which shares the building with Treats - an after school wrap around care facility, they still need to heat and maintain the building. They say their will be no job losses. If defeats me to see where the savings are coming from..............I am so confused:confused:
Alice in Blunderland
07-Mar-06, 20:30
Oh dear Moby and so the sagga continues thanks for pm .What did Jamie Stone say did you go and see him last week.
don't know if this is of any use to you guys, but Peter Peacock the minister for education and young people will be visiting Thurso on Monday 13th March. He will be visiting Miller among other schools.
cuddlepop
07-Mar-06, 21:45
Somebody somewhere up there has to make use of this opportunity ,its like looking a gift horse in the mouth,make sure the local rags get wind of this too.It doesn't have to be an official meeting,just make sure a photo is taken as you hand over your petition.:roll:
i think he is at the high school first , then he is at the ormlie centre for 10.30, then i think he is off to miller, but im not 100% about that. But i agree it is an opportunity, and should be made the most off!
Well well well - that is extremely interesting - First thing tomorrow we will get the wheels into motion and definately try and get a meeting with him!!!
John Thurso MP is also holding a clinic in Thurso this Friday night.
This whole situation is a mess - the more involved with local politics the more sneaky and underhand things appear to be...............this is certainly one son of a learning curve!!
Thanks everyone for your support - keep it coming looks like we will need it!
Alice in Blunderland
07-Mar-06, 23:49
i think he is at the high school first , then he is at the ormlie centre for 10.30, then i think he is off to miller, but im not 100% about that. But i agree it is an opportunity, and should be made the most off!
[smirk] well you can be sure I will be following him round like a bad smell that day anyone care to join me.Maybe he will have some ideas on how to go about making the future of the nurseries more secure, as it stands they are always going to be in the firing line if its not your nursery today it maybe tomorrow.:evil
I'll be right on your tail Alice!!
for your info!!
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/About/Ministers/education
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/membersPages/peter_peacock/index.htm
Alice in Blunderland
08-Mar-06, 00:04
All these meetings about nurseries Ill be getting sacked from my day job. :lol: Hey Ive had an idea maybe I could stand for council [smirk] and cause mayhem good and proper not just looking on from the sidelines oh what sweet thoughts:evil
Alice in Blunderland
08-Mar-06, 00:07
So he has two sons....... wonder what kind of nursery education they received.:Razz Bird watching ......well he will feel right at home up here then as I believe with all the protesting going on theres been a few feathers ruffled :p .:eyes
cuddlepop
08-Mar-06, 11:37
Wish i was there to join in on the fun,its great when you know ,they know you know kicks off.
We've got our own panto starting on Monday HMIe inspectors arrive at our high school,we've requested an audience[lol] ,sorry meeting with them.
Keep you informed [smirk]
Good luck !!!!
Alice in Blunderland
08-Mar-06, 14:41
And if some of them realised exactly what we know now, there would be a few red faces wonder whos gonna have the finger pointed at them tomorrow and to be told its all your fault.Someone on a pretty high salary sitting in a nice warm office and not actualy working on the ground with daily contact with teachers and pupils involved in this saga.My phone was red hot last night and this morning I have so much info running around just now I am trying to decipher Truth from Fiction not that it seems some people are interested in that.
cuddlepop
08-Mar-06, 16:33
Alice,just of the phone to HMIe ,someone from the team will be contacting us about a meeting with them when they are inspecting our school.
Looking forward to Monday.
Hope your in rotweiller mode for tomorrow,think you might make north tonight[lol] .
Alice in Blunderland
08-Mar-06, 17:13
North Tonight dunno we at least will make headlines in the Groat on Friday if nothing else .Bet it will read something like decision put on hold until a more in depth review of nursery provision can be done.My gut instinct tells me theres gonna be a major rethink and all parties will gather round the table and say okay lets look at all nursery provision and plan for a more sustainable future involving talks with everyone over a longer period of time.Lets wait and see.Then no-one comes out of this with egg on their face.......:confused The only problem being this will drag on for a few more years with uncertainty for all kids and teachers and parents.(not to say also giving the councillors the headache of where to find the savings or will money magically appear from somewhere??):confused:
cuddlepop
08-Mar-06, 21:36
Alice ,you know as well as i do that they'll do anything to save themselves from getting egg on there faces,it'll all off been a big misunderstanding,you'll see:p
Thinking of you all tomorrow,go getim girls:Razz
hope everything goes well for you tomorrow!
fingers crossed :grin: :grin: :grin:
The battle lines have now been drawn!!
Let battle commence!
Good luck Norlin and Lybster & see you all tomorrow.
From everyone at Rainbow Rascals
Alice in Blunderland
09-Mar-06, 08:23
Hopefully everyone will get a good outcome this morning.I was at a community council meeting last night to be informed that there is a lot of talk that the rural nurseries have been given a slight reprieve because they are now targeting the town nurseries for merger.This is exactly what was pointed out at the beginning of this review.....setting one area of a small community up against the other will cause ill feeling.The rural nurseries are still on the list allbeit a little further down the line than before so no nursery can sit back and say we are safe its all about future sustainability for when the cash gets tighter.Good luck to all nurseries this morning and councillors please think long and hard before you make your decision whatever you decide there will be long term consequences.;) elections next year anyone thinking of standing?As I said in another thread anyone think they can do better nows your chance to get the ball rolling.....;)
I think now is the time to disprove their theory of setting communities against each other - we should come together as one body in my opinion and be involved from the start of any decision making process or review.......but hey -I'm only a mother what do I know?
cuddlepop
09-Mar-06, 10:07
If anyone is on line this morning before they go to the meeting please be informed that Highland Children's Forum carried out a consoltation exercise for additional needs whereby theses kids were asked.i feel this is relevent for all pre schools and nuseries .Report can be found on the web site www.childreninthehighlands.com (http://www.childreninthehighlands.com) its under reports.
Calum can be contacted on calum.monrocf@btconnect.com This organisation is invaluable to us ,they are for all children so use them thats what there paid for.:grin:
Power to the people,allways new there was a bit of an activist in me ,its refreshing to meet others.
Alice in Blunderland
09-Mar-06, 14:15
Well girls wasnt this morning fun........:p
what was the outcome? any more news?
:grin: Delighted to say that democracy is alive and kicking in Caithness!!! Councillors have decided to revoke the original proposal to integrate the nurseries. Well lets be honest election time is coming a little too close for comfort for some.
Disappointed though that the chair did not offer any apology for the upset this has caused the staff and parents over the last two weeks - maybe I missed it as I was so awestruck at the most amazing display of damage limitations I have ever seen.
Anyway time to move forward..................well until the next time!
Sounds like a job well done Moby, Alice, cuddlepop, weefee et al. Congratulations. :)
(Apologies if I've missed anyone out.)
i can't take credit here, only sharing information....well done tho to all those who did the legwork....just goes to show...power to the people ..;) :grin:
My daughter attends one of the rural nurseries which was under review and it seems that this is going to a long campaign as they are coming back with another review for next year.Who will be targetted next year and will all the information they are gathering together for this review be as accurate/inaccurate as was in previously presented reviews .
cuddlepop
11-Mar-06, 11:01
Support was all I gave too,it was the team at the coal face ,so to speak that done all the hard graft
Alice,is right though its only the battle thats been won not the war :o
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