View Full Version : Migrant workers
What do you all think about all the migrant workers coming to caithness in general and scotland in particular?
Are locals losing out on jobs that are taken by migrants or are those jobs just the ones that no-one seems to want?
I have absolutely no problem with it at all. I find most to be friendly conscientious and extremely hard working as I have pointed out before I find I get far better service abroad than I ever get in this country and you get it with a smile. Most migrant workers seem to be working in jobs that locals don't want and don't seem to complain about and actually look happy in their work.
Course they are getting the crap jobs, but they will work for 3 pounds an hour to undercut U.k workers so what do people expect??
Anyway Brits have been working abroad for years so ,what goes round comes around.
Its good ,all the different cultures mixing , I think so . What do you think?
Whitewater
22-Feb-06, 15:13
Good question, I have no objection to migrant workers (legal ones of course), and I don't think they are doing locals out of work, the jobs they do are deemed by many of the locals to be beneath their dignity. Good luck to them. Just after WW2 many Poles settled in this country, made their homes and brought up their families, all of whom are very proud to be Scottish as well as their Polish heritage. They integrated well and done nothing but good for Scotland. Over the years, many have come from Pakistan, again settled in well and are now in second and third generation, all the ones I know locally have been very hard workers, and seem proud to be part of our great nation.
What I do object to are the illegal imigrants, who are brought here by unscrupulous employers, who pay much less than minimum wage, and keep them as virtual prisoners.
In which case it is not the workers you object to but the scum trafficking them,,, totally agree with you there whitewater. These people trade in absolutely human misery.
Whitewater
22-Feb-06, 15:49
In which case it is not the workers you object to but the scum trafficking them,,, totally agree with you there whitewater. These people trade in absolutely human misery.
Well spotted unicorn, I stand corrected, it is the "scum trafficking them"
porshiepoo
22-Feb-06, 16:26
Ooo dear! This is always a sensitive subject on here, and I always end up getting into some rather heated debates on it.
But seeing as you're new Abdullah, I feel it's ok to tell you my point of view without feeling as though I'm just repeating myself (which I'm accused of alot. lol)
At one point, I had serious misgivings about migrants workers, to the point where I actually felt something bordering on hatred to them, until... I listened to other points of view on this forum.
My view on work - whatever kind - being taken away from a capable Brit still remains the same. I don't agree with it and I wish we had a system more akin to Canada etc in place to prevent it from happening.
However, I did have to look into why I felt the way I did about migrants in general and finally realised my attitude toward them stemmed from an incident I had involving an immigrant neighbour who assaulted me. That in turn made me realise that the migrant workers I had the problem with was only the ones that didn't speak the English language as a first language. (stupid I know, but this all finally dawned on me).
So, armed with this new found realisation I had to re-evaluate what I considered right and wrong in the whole migrant worker scenario.
As I've already said, I still don't think it's right that they have such easy access to our jobs. I've lived in a county that seemed to suddenly have a full quota of migrant workers and no increase in available jobs. The main source of work in that county was landwork which was hard work and rubbish pay but plenty of it. Then the migrants came along, and the gangers realised they could get just as much work for less money, so of course they employed these people (alot of them illegally too).
I'm not saying that it's the workers fault, they're only doing what anyone would do given the chance or the opportunity, I blame a goverment that allows this to happen because of their slack laws and regulations.
And don't even get me started on illegal immigrants!!!!!!! lol.
Right, I hope I've managed to put that tactfully and not in my usual forceful way????
Course they are getting the crap jobs, but they will work for 3 pounds an hour to undercut U.k workers so what do people expect??
Anyway Brits have been working abroad for years so ,what goes round comes around.
Its good ,all the different cultures mixing , I think so . What do you think?
If they are legally employed, then they come under the same rules as british citizens and have to be paid at least the minimum wage which is £5.05. they are subject to the same rules as to paying tax and NI.
They are hard workers and do not try to rip off their employers. they also send money home to their families. At least the ones i know off.
I have absolutely no problem with it at all. I find most to be friendly conscientious and extremely hard working as I have pointed out before I find I get far better service abroad than I ever get in this country and you get it with a smile. Most migrant workers seem to be working in jobs that locals don't want and don't seem to complain about and actually look happy in their work.
I agree with u but we have to remember the money they are earning is going out our local econemy and into theres also if they are happy working for monkeys wages then that could go against the locals getting a decent hourly rate because companys will start employing more of them because there cheap labour and also the one thing that bugs me most about them is were there living there engouraging more of there people to come across and they are letting them live with them and are overcrowding there flat which cant be nice for the neighbours around them.
I do think that there should be some form of control over how many foriegn people are a loud to work in this country if there from another country in europe
Migrant workers?
I think the 'brain drain' from Scotland should be tackled first, that is most harmful than any migrant workers coming to Scotland.
Just as a matter of interest i live in aberdeen and there is loads of foriegn people working in the fish and its more of spot the scot in fish work places its that bad
the bigest problem with the migrant workers in some peoples eyes is that their all very hard workers and deserve every thing they earn and more they are away from thier familays for 6 mths at a time
and its not because its cheaper labour when u take in their flights and insurance medical and accomadition prob works out more per hr than min wage
all them that complain about migrants taking local jobs get real because the only reason the jobs are av is the fact that our goverment pay them to much for lying idle and playing bingo
I have said this before and I will say it again
Many areas in the country have almost full employment - employers cant fill vacancies for love nor money. Hotel work, fish processing work, agricultural work, all have real problems recruiting workers in many areas. These people are not taking jobs that local people would do, they are filling a skills gap. I had lunch yesterday at a place in Inverness that does the FINEST clam chowder i have ever eaten. My order was taken by a polish guy and the girl that brought the food was spanish. They were polite and pleasant and their english was excellent. Why would i complain? Migrant workers will spend money locally of course they will - they have to eat and some do go out and if they send money home well good luck to them - I wish i could manage my finances quite as well
At one point, I had serious misgivings about migrants workers, to the point where I actually felt something bordering on hatred to them, until... I listened to other points of view on this forum.
Right, I hope I've managed to put that tactfully and not in my usual forceful way????
Oooooooooh Porshie - thats great
pedromcgrory
22-Feb-06, 17:20
maybe national wage here yes but as ive said before who wouldnt work here for 6 months at a time etc id go to poland if i was getting wot they were here rember every 1 pound here to polish is 7 pound back home so 6 months back and forth here is a very good wage to them ,and would you spend much in a town were you werent getting much out of it for your money no i guess is the answer , one polish guy i used to work with last year used to eat dry crackers no butter and wouldnt buy anything he didnt have to just for the fortune he went home with hed tell me at end roughley saved in 6 months 5 thousand say etc 30.000 now is it just me or are we losing out on because jobs are being taken hardley any money back fare enough employers as i seen were getting the benift they think polish a brillant they aint hard workers just looking for all the work ie many hours they can get there hands on as wot else they do here except spend money they dont want to they would work day time as every local would but as i know when it comes to night overtime etc they would just have to minimun work etc but not once did i see a local get left by themself in factory or get offererd overtime dont know why but maybe they are getting less pay i think some weeks wed be on flexy hours where u get paid ur 40 hour week work maybe four and owe 1 day ,but as id said polish would be working 7 till 9 etc every day my advice is get them as far away from local work etc
Caithness and sutherland has a higher unemployment rate in parts than some other places in the highlands but still the hotels cannot get staff. They have never been able to recruit all the staff they need easily - it has been ongoing for at least the last ten years or so - so i repeat - how are local people being denied work if they dont want to do those jobs? What would you have the hotels do? shut?
Whenever employers are asked about this they say that Polish workers, and presumably others, just do a much better job than many Brits. Poland has very high unemployment so many people come here because they can't get jobs at home, even though it means leaving their families behind. If they want to save as much as they can to send home, good for them. I'm sure they could squander it on rubbish here if they wanted to but they have more sense. British employers frequently complain about the laziness, illiteracy, unreliability and general uselessness of so many Brits that it's hardly surprising they look elsewhere. Even with high unemployment there are concerns up here about the shortage of skilled workers for the construction industry and, as Squidge says, even hotels can't get staff, so if they have to take in people from abroad whose fault is that?
maybe national wage here yes but as ive said before who wouldnt work here for 6 months at a time etc id go to poland if i was getting wot they were here rember every 1 pound here to polish is 7 pound back home so 6 months back and forth here is a very good wage to them ,and would you spend much in a town were you werent getting much out of it for your money no i guess is the answer , one polish guy i used to work with last year used to eat dry crackers no butter and wouldnt buy anything he didnt have to just for the fortune he went home with hed tell me at end roughley saved in 6 months 5 thousand say etc 30.000 now is it just me or are we losing out on because jobs are being taken hardley any money back fare enough employers as i seen were getting the benift they think polish a brillant they aint hard workers just looking for all the work ie many hours they can get there hands on as wot else they do here except spend money they dont want to they would work day time as every local would but as i know when it comes to night overtime etc they would just have to minimun work etc but not once did i see a local get left by themself in factory or get offererd overtime dont know why but maybe they are getting less pay i think some weeks wed be on flexy hours where u get paid ur 40 hour week work maybe four and owe 1 day ,but as id said polish would be working 7 till 9 etc every day my advice is get them as far away from local work etc
????????????????????????????
I was just wondering what the problem was with people spending their hard earned money which ever way and wherever they see fit? I wonder how many of you accept someone telling you how you have to spend your money.
I also wonder why it's not objectionable the large ammounts of Brits that take huge ammounts of money out of the country when they go on holiday or decide to settle in a "place in the sun"? And that these Brits, who are most frequently of a "noble" age that puts stress on the national health services of the countries recieving them without ever having contributed to that service ( considering it's intra- Eurpean community migration offcourse)
I don't understand what Abdullah means by migrant workers. Are you talking about immigrants or people that move with work ( ie: seasonal work). Excuse me if I am wrong, but the way this question is posed looks very strange and staged.
connieb19
22-Feb-06, 19:03
We only have to look on the threads about homebase to see that there is certain locals who just do not want to work. First they complain there is no jobs, now they have the cheek to say Homebase arn't paying enough. No wonder the immigrants are getting the jobs, at least they are willing to work.[disgust]
What about nursing homes and builders labouring jobs as I think these are quite well paid and desirable or even the likes of norfrost (icetech) which as far as I know never had a problem recruiting locals? Also I cannot agree that migrants are anymore hard working than nationals, some are hard working, some are lazy sods. What about workers that leave companies and are replaced by migrants when infact there may well be interest in the job from a local. I think a lot of employers take advantage of the fact that these workers are from poorer countries in which their wage would be somewhere in the region of £70 - £80 per month. Scotland once prided itself on it's workforce and now it seems they have no confidence in it, why has this come about?
I think there is a place for them here but not in such numbers!
I don't understand what Abdullah means by migrant workers. Are you talking about immigrants or people that move with work ( ie: seasonal work). Excuse me if I am wrong, but the way this question is posed looks very strange and staged.
Migrant workers can be persons admitted in a country other than their own for the explicit purpose of exercising an economic activity. They are usually admitted only for a limited period, though the permission to stay and exercise an economic activity may be reviewed or extended as time elapses.
Also, how exactly and for what effect do you think this question was staged?
The reason I ask is a genuine interest in the views of people here.
landmarker
22-Feb-06, 20:16
A ready pool of migrant labour will keep down wages. This is an inescapable economic fact of life. Why should employers 'up the anty' if they can find someone eager to do the work for the same miserly rate, or even less.
This need not just be with jobs that only attract the minimum wage either, it applies all the way up the salary scale.
Wage inflation has been extremely low these last few years *and even Eddie George ex-governor of the Bank of England said this was largely due to migrants who were distorting the usual upward trend of wages.
I do not really blame migrants who wish to work here, but I'd rather they didn't. If this is the price of being the worlds fourth largest economy then I'd really rather be fifteenth.
*excluding bonuses for city fat cats.
A ready pool of migrant labour will keep down wages. This is an inescapable economic fact of life. Why should employers 'up the anty' if they can find someone eager to do the work for the same miserly rate, or even less.
This need not just be with jobs that only attract the minimum wage either, it applies all the way up the salary scale.
Wage inflation has been extremely low these last few years *and even Eddie George ex-governor of the Bank of England said this was largely due to migrants who were distorting the usual upward trend of wages.
I do not really blame migrants who wish to work here, but I'd rather they didn't. If this is the price of being the worlds fourth largest economy then I'd really rather be fifteenth.
*excluding bonuses for city fat cats.
What about businesses that are leaving the UK due to cost of labor? Companies are transfering out of the UK very often, and labor costs are a large part of that.
landmarker
22-Feb-06, 20:58
What about businesses that are leaving the UK due to cost of labor? Companies are transfering out of the UK very often, and labor costs are a large part of that.
So what should we all do then? Agree to work for similar wages to those paid in the Czech republic? Personally I'd impound capital plant and equipment of any company transferring production for these reasons, or at the very least impose swingeing export tarrifs - hefty enough to discourage any such
strategy.
Greedy, grasping banks tranfer call centre jobs - and those workers are not on anything like a high salary, yet they want to get people to work for peanuts instead of a very modest wage.
melted_wellie
22-Feb-06, 21:00
i estimate that i am going to earn £20,000 less this year due to polish workers in my industry,they are here not because we cant be bothered doing the job,but simply because they will do it cheaper.Send them home i say.
So what should we all do then? Agree to work for similar wages to those paid in the Czech republic? Personally I'd impound capital plant and equipment of any company transferring production for these reasons, or at the very least impose swingeing export tarrifs - hefty enough to discourage any such
strategy.
Greedy, grasping banks tranfer call centre jobs - and those workers are not on anything like a high salary, yet they want to get people to work for peanuts instead of a very modest wage.
Don't patronize!
landmarker
22-Feb-06, 21:57
Don't patronize!
I dont think you know the meaning of the word.
weeboyagee
22-Feb-06, 22:49
Pedromagrory and melted_wellie - you want barbed wire and checkpoints at the ord as well?????
In Caithness we have wage bands depending on the job you are in but travel further south and you will find different wage earnings for different industry sectors. As far as I am concerned - good luck to them - keeping "them" out just makes it nice and comfortable for the home labour force to get away with giving less for what they are paid - very general statement but it will only offend those who it relates to.
There has been a great shortage of workers in lots of trades because there is not the take up - people don't like to work outdoors these days, they don't like menial jobs because they are below them, they are not willing to work for anything less than £x even though it maybe above the minimum wage, they may not see a future in certain trades, they think this and they think that.........
....they put so many restrictions on the employers market that the employer hasn't got alternatives. Small minded people with small minded vision - don't see the rest of the world beyond the ord! A problem that will be the make or break of this county in the future! :eyes:
Bobinovich
22-Feb-06, 23:08
I know of one local employer who had a local employee walk out after he demanded higher wages - above what he was worth in the employer's eyes.
The post went unfilled for months with the employer working doubly hard to fill the gap themselves, when along came a Polish worker. He worked hard, only needed to be told how to do things once, and was grateful for both the work and the money.
He left to go home and within a week another Pole appeared. He too worked hard, learned fast, and was a model employee.
The employer had no cause for complaint and, after having to bust his gut for months with no locals willing to take the job on, was grateful for some quality labourers, regardless of nationality.
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